View Full Version : Coup
It sure looks like a coup attempt to me.
early morning
1-6-21, 3:51pm
Definition of coup d'état
: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics
especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group
Yep, sounds like what the Trumpers are attempting.
Hopefully these terrorists will be caught and treated as such. Including the president.
And after this is over we hopefully are smart enough now to not put statues of any of them up as heroes.
If they were black they would be dead. But they are white so we are trying to talk them down.
#racism
ApatheticNoMore
1-6-21, 4:01pm
it's not really racism, it's ideology, if they weren't rightwingers they would be dead
If they were black there would’ve been 5000 armed police/national guard in riot outfits surrounding the captor building for the past two days in preparation.
iris lilies
1-6-21, 4:03pm
Wrong, shameful, and put them in jail.
‘ Course if this was happening in St. Louis there would be no consequence for them.
If it were happening in St. Louis it wouldn’t be a treasonous attack against the UNited States government led by the president.
There are protesters on the Senate floor, and a woman on a stretcher was recently moved out of the building. With blood and chest compressions.
This was predictable, with all Trump's bellicose rhetoric. He's probably in his bunker, showing his usual concern for the republic.
gimmethesimplelife
1-6-21, 4:08pm
What's really scary? I'm innocently on lunch when I get a text from another neighborhood activist - lamenting that we don't have a militia to protect the 85006.
EXCUSE ME??? When did we become Honduras other than health care access issues and food insecurity? I've known since I was 14 that a huge fall was coming - but do we need to go quite this third world? The whole world is watching, I'd better send an email to Vienna to let my family know it's isolated and I'm not under direct threat other than economically as we all are 24/7/365 as Americans. But this militia thing???
Some of you think I'm far out there. Fair enough. This militia thing to me is just as far out there. Can anyone see this ending well? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-6-21, 4:09pm
If it were happening in St. Louis it wouldn’t be a treasonous attack against the UNited States government led by the president.Exactly! Thank You for this sanity and clarity, jp1. Rob
it's not really racism, it's ideology, if they weren't rightwingers they would be dead
If they weren't right-wingers, there might be a police presence.
Domestic terrorism. Trump could probably end this with a tweet. Bring in the guard and make arrests.
Just a mostly peaceful protest. They haven’t even started burning and looting like most here think is fine.
early morning
1-6-21, 4:16pm
Ah, I was waiting for the excuses by the right to start, and here we go!
If they were black there would’ve been 5000 armed police/national guard in riot outfits surrounding the captor building for the past two days in preparation.
It's not like they didn't have advance warning. "Stand down and stand by" all you seditionists! (Donald Trump, first debate) He set this all up, then vanished.
iris lilies
1-6-21, 4:20pm
Ah, I was waiting for the excuses by the right to start, and here we go!
Storming Congress is unacceptable.
Burning and looting blocks from my house. Also unacceptable.
Just a mostly peaceful protest. They haven’t even started burning and looting like most here think is fine.
It stopped being peaceful when they breached the capitol. It’s now a full on violent coup attempt and needs to be responded to as such.
The time for a second impeachment is upon us.
lStorm in Congress is unacceptable.
Burning and looting blocks from my house. Also unacceptable.
But at least the rest of the world isn't watching your neighborhood, horrified.
On Sunday, Trump assured he will join the rally* as concerns about violence rise among residents and authorities.
“I will be there, and it will be wild,” Trump tweeted as he informed that the rally will take place at 11h00 local time on January 6.
With the slogan 'Stop The Steal', the President, who has fought and lost in court his claims of alleged election fraud, called on his supporters to be part of this "Historic day!"
*MIA, just as he has been throughout the pandemic.
Just a mostly peaceful protest. They haven’t even started burning and looting like most here think is fine.
So, you think this is OK then.
early morning
1-6-21, 4:35pm
Quote Originally Posted by early morning View Post
Ah, I was waiting for the excuses by the right to start, and here we go!
lStorm in Congress is unacceptable.
Burning and looting blocks from my house. Also unacceptable.
AGREED.
gimmethesimplelife
1-6-21, 4:38pm
Domestic terrorism. Trump could probably end this with a tweet. Bring in the guard and make arrests.Exactly. This IS indeed domestic terrorism. Rob
It stopped being peaceful when they breached the capitol. It’s now a full on violent coup attempt and needs to be responded to as such.
The time for a second impeachment is upon us.
Exactly.
And is is racist - if they were black they would be called rioters, not protestors. They would be shot at, not given hours to try to deescalate.
It’s also religious terrorism. A cross was being erected. Christian nationalism is our version of the islamic state.
gimmethesimplelife
1-6-21, 4:40pm
I predict that it will become harder to immigrate out of the US now - there will be more Americans wisely wanting out permanently now. Rob
Let’s pretend:
Trump won
Democrats are mad
Black and brown people did this today
Your answer should be no different
But I know for many of you it is
= racism
gimmethesimplelife
1-6-21, 4:44pm
Let’s pretend:
Trump won
Democrats are mad
Black and brown people did this today
Your answer should be no different
But I know for many of you it is
= racismNot for me it's not. Rob
Right. I’m pretty angry so I could have phrased my prior post better.
“I know for many people it is.”
I predict that it will become harder to immigrate out of the US now - there will be more Americans wisely wanting out permanently now. Rob
ya right, like people leaving America has been a problem. Many say they are leaving, but most dont. And we still have more trying to get in, they even risk their life to get here.
Teacher Terry
1-6-21, 4:54pm
Tammy, you are absolutely correct!
And believe it or not, everything is not racist. During the BLM riots they were looting, assaulting the police, and burning buildings. Even when they were arrested most were returned to the streets to start again.
How are things going in Portland?
And even with building burning and the police were being assaulted it was called a mostly peaceful protest.
And believe it or not, everything is not racist. During the BLM riots they were looting, assaulting the police, and burning buildings. Even when they were arrested most were returned to the streets to start again.
How are things going in Portland?
At least the BLM protesters weren’t trying to overthrow the government.
At least the BLM protesters weren’t trying to overthrow the government.
im not sure about that
Have the protesters started throwing frozen water bottles, rocks, anything. Have they started burning the buildings down? Have they started looting yet?
At least the BLM protesters weren’t trying to overthrow the government.
And a good portion of the violence attributed to them was perpetrated by the same thugs we're watching today--like the off-duty officer breaking store windows somewhere in the Midwest, and the Proud Boys (sic) in Portland.
im not sure about that
BLM protesters call out injustice. These Trumpsters are trying to overthrow the democratic process. AND they are egged on by Trump himself who is thumbing his nose at the Constitution for his own personal agenda. And as Tammy and others have said, the response to each side by law enforcement has been shown to be very different.
im not sure about that
If you honestly think the US government can be overthrown by a group of protestors in Portland then our conversation is done. Enjoy your newsmax and OAN.
If you honestly think the US government can be overthrown by a group of protestors in Portland then our conversation is done. Enjoy your newsmax and OAN.
I don’t think either group can overthrow the government. But that’s not saying they don’t want to. Just protesting to get everyone’s attention. You really don’t think storming the capital to protest is really a coup attempt do you. Maybe your watching to much CNN
If you honestly think the US government can be overthrown by a group of protestors in Portland then our conversation is done.
I don’t. Nor do I think the US government can be overthrown by a group of protesters in DC. Predictably, people’s outrage here seems to vary by their political position.
For the record, I think political violence is wrong whether you choose to call it a protest, a riot or a coup.
If they were black they would be dead. But they are white so we are trying to talk them down.
#racism
I 100% agree!
I think the streets of DC should run red with the blood of these insurrectionists.
I don’t. Nor do I think the US government can be overthrown by a group of protesters in DC. Predictably, people’s outrage here seems to vary by their political position.
For the record, I think political violence is wrong whether you choose to call it a protest, a riot or a coup.
They’ve prevented congress from doing it’a duty of certifying the electoral college results. They almost certainly will not have long term success but they have certainly had short term success. If you really want to I suppose you can continue to try and defend the indefensible.
I’m watching Fox News also - to hear all sides. Fox is using words like anarchy and coup.
There is no excuse.
I 100% agree!
How many blacks were gunned down during the protest/riots this year?
How come trump didn’t tell the BLM protestors he loved them?
I will not debate details. If you can’t see the obvious differences between Portland and today, you are a lost cause.
gimmethesimplelife
1-6-21, 5:31pm
I 100% agree!Yes. This is one of the horrible truths of America. I have been unable to deny this since I was 14. But I'm also grateful Rapheal Warnock won in Georgia. His 82 year old Mother, who once picked cotton? Had the pleasure of voting for her Son as a US Senator. So there is hope - and an awful lot of BS, too. Rob
I think the streets of DC should run red with the blood of these insurrectionists.
Tough talk, Im sure you would assist, except you would have to leave you island sanctuary.
gimmethesimplelife
1-6-21, 5:32pm
I will not debate details. If you can’t see the obvious differences between Portland and today, you are a lost cause.Bingo! Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-6-21, 5:34pm
Tough talk, Im sure you would assist, except you would have to leave you island sanctuary.I never thought I'd stand up for bae.....never say never! Please play civil in the sandbox, Sir. Sarcasm will solve nor change nada here. Rob
They should declare it a autonomous zone.
Tough talk, Im sure you would assist, except you would have to leave you island sanctuary.
Based on what we know about bae I don’t think accusations of wimpiness will be viewed as credible by many people here.
They should declare it a autonomous zone.
So you admit it IS a coup. Or at least that you wish it were. Thanks for clarifying.
Thousands and thousands of demonstrators held forth for months in the streets of Portland, with minimal violence and damage and no threat to the Republic. And, I repeat, a sizeable portion of that violence came at the hands of white supremacists and general troublemakers. Not to mention their cause was a worthy one.
ApatheticNoMore
1-6-21, 5:44pm
Meanwhile the anti-democratic coup tries to set off pipe bombs. But oh yea water bottles would be a real problem.
I think the streets of DC should run red with the blood of these insurrectionists.
I think this demands an investigation and widespread prosecution of the perpetrators, including the inciters.
Trump finally made a statement, telling the insurrectionists "I love you," and repeatedly lying about a stolen election.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9118983/Rudy-Giuliani-demands-trial-combat-thousands-Trump-supporters-rally-White-House.html?ito=
18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
The criminal code seems pretty clear on what's going on.
They’ve prevented congress from doing it’a duty of certifying the electoral college results. They almost certainly will not have long term success but they have certainly had short term success. If you really want to I suppose you can continue to try and defend the indefensible.
What is it you think I am defending?
Meanwhile the anti-democratic coup tries to set off pipe bombs. But oh yea water bottles would be a real problem.
I heard they had to detonate a bomb at the Republican National Committee HQ.
What is it you think I am defending?
Trying to claim that this is just a run of the mill protest and not an attempted coup by American terrorists is defending them.
An attempted coup led by a sitting American president, no less.
Tough talk, Im sure you would assist, except you would have to leave you island sanctuary.
**** you.
Trying to claim that this is just a run of the mill protest and not an attempted coup by American terrorists is defending them.
I said I was opposed to political violence by any name. You seem to think by not sharing your heated rhetoric I am somehow “defending” something.
I said I was opposed to political violence by any name. You seem to think by not sharing you’re heated rhetoric I am somehow “defending” something.
Again, if you think this is an average, just another day in America, type event, your downplaying of the seriousness of what is happening is defending it. We have never in our history had armed insurrectionists attempt to thwart the work of congress certifying the electoral college results. Never. Ever. There is nothing at all remotely normal about what is going on and trying to claim it is normal is defending the indefensible.
I’m reading that several state capitals have some trouble brewing as well ... I live 4 blocks from the AZ capital and helicopters have been circling for over an hour now.
iris lilies
1-6-21, 6:29pm
Again, if you think this is an average, just another day in America, type event, your downplaying of the seriousness of what is happening is defending it. We have never in our history had armed insurrectionists attempt to thwart the work of congress certifying the electoral college results. Never. Ever. There is nothing at all remotely normal about what is going on and trying to claim it is normal is defending the indefensible.
Look, It is serious. I think it’s serious. I turned on the radio just long enough to hear daddy Joe give a very nice, on target talk to America. He asked Donald Trump to tell everyone to go home. Donald Trump asked everyone to go home.
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
(https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump)
·
2h (https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1346912780700577792)
I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!”
But when America celebrates going into the street to riot, well, you know, more that shit happens.
I think the streets of DC should run red with the blood of these insurrectionists.
Agreed. I hope the 15 injured survive. As you and I know, CPR on a gurney traveling to the ambulance does not bode well for the first shooting victim :-(
Look, It is serious. I think it’s serious. I turned on the radio just long enough to hear daddy Joe give a very nice, on target talk to America. He asked Donald Trump to tell everyone to go home. Donald Trump asked everyone to go home.
After lying about the integrity of the elections and telling his insurrectionists that he loves them and that "'THEY' stole from us but what can we do?"
Hardly a statement of support for the democratic process. He is cultivating his cult following. (Hmm, now I have to look up the etymology of "cultivate" and "cult")
Thousands and thousands of demonstrators held forth for months in the streets of Portland, with minimal violence and damage and no threat to the Republic. And, I repeat, a sizeable portion of that violence came at the hands of white supremacists and general troublemakers. Not to mention their cause was a worthy one.
Well, there was lots of damage. Large & small businesspeople will tell you that... Otherwise I'm with ya there.
iris lilies
1-6-21, 6:34pm
How come trump didn’t tell the BLM protestors he loved them?
Because he doesn’t?
I don’t either.
I think this demands an investigation and widespread prosecution of the perpetrators, including the inciters.
Trump finally made a statement, telling the insurrectionists "I love you," and repeatedly lying about a stolen election.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9118983/Rudy-Giuliani-demands-trial-combat-thousands-Trump-supporters-rally-White-House.html?ito=
I agree!
gimmethesimplelife
1-6-21, 6:36pm
**** you.bae....I agree with you here. Rob
Traitor trump’s message telling them to go home today was about as much of a non message to go home as when he told his fanboys to stand down and stand by or when he denounced the neonazis in VA by saying there were good people on both sides.
The dude needs to be impeached and removed or 25th amendmented. But of course there are not enough honorable republicans in the positions necessary to make either of those things happen so we’ll have to stumble through two more weeks of his shitastic presidency.
I heard someone interviewed who used to listen to mob conversations as part of his job. He said Trump's discussions with underlings was similar, in that he didn't issue orders, but indicated what he wanted done, and expected his minions to read between the lines. He's apparently operated as a mob boss wannabe for decades. I guess that's why he needed his own Roy Cohn.
gimmethesimplelife
1-6-21, 7:27pm
I've called home and to a few neighbors. We seem to be OK here in close-in Phoenix. There is happiness about the Senate flipping blue along with fear and anger about the overthrow attempt. But no mayhem, we're safe here in Phoenix. Rob
I’m in favor of the 25th amendment option.
I’m in favor of the 25th amendment option.
Well, it would be good to have someone in charge.
bae....I agree with you here. Rob
How will I be able to sleep at night.
Just fine actually.
gimmethesimplelife
1-6-21, 7:39pm
I’m in favor of the 25th amendment option.YES!!! Sane idea to get us to January 20th. I agree with you once again. Rob
Well, it would be good to have someone in charge.
I could live with Pence for 14 days.
Again, if you think this is an average, just another day in America, type event, your downplaying of the seriousness of what is happening is defending it. We have never in our history had armed insurrectionists attempt to thwart the work of congress certifying the electoral college results. Never. Ever. There is nothing at all remotely normal about what is going on and trying to claim it is normal is defending the indefensible.
I don’t think, and I didn’t say, this was normal. Neither were any of the other violent incidents around the country. I think violence should be deplored, whether committed by wretched deplorables, virtuous seekers after social justice, real or imagined provocateurs or anybody else.
If in your mind that means I’m defending some kind of fascist coup, I doubt we have much else to say here.
How will I be able to sleep at night.
Just fine actually.
As you should since the rule of law has prevailed and hopefully many of these white thug terrorists will be in jail for a long time. Now if only their traitorous dear leader was headed toward a similar end the world would be a better place.
I don’t think, and I didn’t say, this was normal. Neither were any of the other violent incidents around the country. I think violence should be deplored, whether committed by wretched deplorables, virtuous seekers after social justice, real or imagined provocateurs or anybody else.
If in your mind that means I’m defending some kind of fascist coup, I doubt we have much else to say here.
If you think looting a CVS is at all similar to what happened today, you're right. We have nothing else to discuss.
Well, it would be good to have someone in charge.
And now that trump is in twitter jail he's clearly no longer in charge.
And now that trump is in twitter jail he's clearly no longer in charge.
It was so gratifying to see Twitter's shut-down
3566
And if we DO invoke the 25th amendment, do we get to say,
"Donald J. Trump--you're FIRED!"?
iris lilies
1-6-21, 8:32pm
As you should since the rule of law has prevailed and hopefully many of these white thug terrorists will be in jail for a long time. Now if only their traitorous dear leader was headed toward a similar end the world would be a better place.
Rule of law prevailed, so you mean it’s over and everyone went home?
What crappy rioters they are. Any self respecting BLM protestor knows the real deal happens at night.
ApatheticNoMore
1-6-21, 8:39pm
well they are under curfew, which was no doubt enacted to prevent riots at night, that's kind of what they are used for
In real protests--not coup attempts or insurrections--that may go on for some time, people often show up after work to demonstrate. From what I've seen of this mob, they're mostly from out of state, called in by Dear Leader. I wouldn't be surprised if they get their second wind, though
Rule of law prevailed, so you mean it’s over and everyone went home?
What crappy rioters they are. Any self respecting BLM protestor knows the real deal happens at night.
Blm’ers also know that the police are unlikely to be willing to pose for selfies with them.
iris lilies
1-6-21, 8:49pm
well they are under curfew, which was no doubt enacted to prevent riots at night, that's kind of what they are used for
Again, no self respecting rioter pays any mind to whitey’s curfew.
And harassing cops, and throwing chit at them, and shooting them kind of discourages cops’ interest in posing for joint photos.
I don't know know if the 25th is the right path. I see a better solution for all of the leaders of the GOP coming out with a unified statement condemning this and verifying a fair and just election instead of playing political games. Maybe either is unlikely, but there will be burning embers of this that won't stop with a new regime. The lies need to end.
Tough talk, Im sure you would assist, except you would have to leave you island sanctuary.
I don't post here often, mostly read. But I do believe that this is one of the most crappiest thing I have read here .dmc, my husband has 41 years if fire service. I can guarantee the first time you had to scoop up someone who has been involved in a accident with a scoop shovel, you would be on the ground. The amount of horrible things bae, my husband and all of the other first responders see on a daily basis is mind boggling
You are a lost cause or a lost soul. Possibly both
iris lilies
1-6-21, 8:54pm
If they were black they would be dead. But they are white so we are trying to talk them down.
#racism
you know Tammy, the only dead person resulting from our spring riots in St. Louis was a retired cop working security.
He was black, but his black life doesn’t matter.
Here is a list of unarmed black and brown people killed by the police, sheriff deputies, and security guards:
https://www.reneeater.com/on-monuments-blog/tag/list+of+unarmed+black+people+killed+by+police
Again, no self respecting rioter pays any mind to whitey’s curfew.
And harassing cops, and throwing chit at them, and shooting them kind of discourages cops’ internet in posing for joint photos.
And cops supporting the terrorists goals will have the same effect.
gimmethesimplelife
1-6-21, 9:21pm
It was so gratifying to see Twitter's shut-down
3566
And if we DO invoke the 25th amendment, do we get to say,
"Donald J. Trump--you're FIRED!"?I wonder if the rights to say You're fired to DJT in front of an international audience could be auctioned off for untold dollars - with proceeds going to migrant resettlement groups/charities? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-6-21, 9:23pm
I don't post here often, mostly read. But I do believe that this is one of the most crappiest thing I have read here .dmc, my husband has 41 years if fire service. I can guarantee the first time you had to scoop up someone who has been involved in a accident with a scoop shovel, you would be on the ground. The amount of horrible things bae, my husband and all of the other first responders see on a daily basis is mind boggling
You are a lost cause or a lost soul. Possibly bothR - E - S - P - E - C - T. Lots of it I have for you. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-6-21, 9:26pm
Is everyone safe where they are? So far no mayhem in Phoenix or Tucson or Flagstaff or Nogales or Yuma. I'm hoping this insanity remains contained to DC and does not spread. Be safe out there! Rob
iris lilies
1-6-21, 9:28pm
Here is a list of unarmed black and brown people killed by the police, sheriff deputies, and security guards:
https://www.reneeater.com/on-monuments-blog/tag/list+of+unarmed+black+people+killed+by+police
Oh, I thought you were specifically talking about rioters being killed by policeman.
I don't know know if the 25th is the right path. I see a better solution for all of the leaders of the GOP coming out with a unified statement condemning this and verifying a fair and just election instead of playing political games. Maybe either is unlikely, but there will be burning embers of this that won't stop with a new regime. The lies need to end.
Would the 25th mean he could not run for office in the future?
iris lilies
1-6-21, 9:33pm
Is everyone safe where they are? So far no mayhem in Phoenix or Tucson or Flagstaff or Nogales or Yuma. I'm hoping this insanity remains contained to DC and does not spread. Be safe out there! Rob
The bullets flying around my neighborhood regularly, and especially the hundreds of them shot into the air on New Year’s Eve six days ago, were not bullets from the cops. I wish I could be more safe but I can’t avoid the dumb chits who do crap like this.
Bullets come down and injure/kill people. Black lives don’t matter then to those shooters.
Is everyone safe where they are? So far no mayhem in Phoenix or Tucson or Flagstaff or Nogales or Yuma. I'm hoping this insanity remains contained to DC and does not spread. Be safe out there! Rob
No mayhem in the 94947 currently. But then we’re 20 miles out in the suburbs... there was, however, some mayhem this morning. The rafter of turkeys (yes I had to look up what a group of turkeys is called) that live in our neighborhood had gone on our roof for some reason. Shortly after I started working this morning they decided it was safe and they all came down and got back to the important business of grazing at the breakfast buffet.
Is everyone safe where they are? So far no mayhem in Phoenix or Tucson or Flagstaff or Nogales or Yuma. I'm hoping this insanity remains contained to DC and does not spread. Be safe out there! Rob
I’m in an affluent Chicago suburb. Nothing going on here.
Would the 25th mean he could not run for office in the future?
i suppose. It might also prevent any future opportunities for self pardon. I just think there are better solutions with less dissonance.
Nothing going on on my "island sanctuary."
Would the 25th mean he could not run for office in the future?
No. It can only remove him. But then he can self certify that he is capable of retaking the office. If that happens congress has to vote on whether he is indeed capable of retaking office, but they have 3 weeks to do so. Obviously pelosi isn't going to bring that to a vote. In this case the three week period would end after Biden has been sworn in, so there'd be nothing for him to retake currently, but he could run for office in the future. In a perfect world he'll be 25th out now and then impeached and removed prior to the 20th to prevent him from ever again being in a position of such power to destroy the country.
The relevant language from the amendment:
Section 4.
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
I’m in an affluent Chicago suburb. Nothing going on here.
Had 3 medflights today, luckily the weather was calm.
We needed one badly yesterday, and the Navy rescue swimmers from Whidbey came out to move the patient, as nobody else could manage the 50-70 knot winds. Their landing here was "sporty".
I spent most of today doing mass casualty incident training, and checking the triage packs. Timely, I guess. Here on the sanctuary.
The suburban calm here was shattered early by trash haulers and their mechanized trucks. After the night's rain, the sun came out briefly. A hummingbird reconnoitered. A squirrel chase ensued. I expect tomorrow will be much the same, minus garbage trucks, plus an Amazon delivery. IOW, life goes on as usual.
And this evening in Washington State:
"Supporters of President Donald Trump opened a gate and occupied the front lawn of the governor’s residence Wednesday afternoon in Olympia before backing down after a standoff with Washington State Patrol troopers.
Dozens of protesters, some of them openly carrying firearms, moved to the front of the residence chanting and waving signs while a lone trooper urged them to leave the property.
More troopers later arrived and by 3:30 p.m. the protesters moved back behind the gate.
The troopers formed a line in front of the gate.
The Washington State Patrol said in a tweet it was responding to the residence and that Gov. Jay Inslee was in a safe location."
https://theorcasonian.com/trump-supporters-leave-lawn-of-governors-mansion-after-standoff-with-washington-state-patrol/
Oh, I thought you were specifically talking about rioters being killed by policeman.
Ah I see - emotions are running high. Understandably so.
After several hours of hearing helicopters circling overhead, things are quiet here near the Arizona capital.
iris lilies
1-6-21, 11:15pm
And this evening in Washington State:
"Supporters of President Donald Trump opened a gate and occupied the front lawn of the governor’s residence Wednesday afternoon in Olympia before backing down after a standoff with Washington State Patrol troopers.
Dozens of protesters, some of them openly carrying firearms, moved to the front of the residence chanting and waving signs while a lone trooper urged them to leave the property.
More troopers later arrived and by 3:30 p.m. the protesters moved back behind the gate.
The troopers formed a line in front of the gate.
The Washington State Patrol said in a tweet it was responding to the residence and that Gov. Jay Inslee was in a safe location."
https://theorcasonian.com/trump-supporters-leave-lawn-of-governors-mansion-after-standoff-with-washington-state-patrol/
Is that a coup, or is it a riot, or is it a protest?
Is that a coup, or is it a riot, or is it a protest?
Well, the news stories in the Seattle area papers about the event include quotes of the "participants" yelling things that, if it were my front lawn, would cause me to activate the minefield and let loose with the beltfed weaponry. But I'm a hermit.
Our local news showed a couple of dozen people across the street from each other and yelling. That is it here.
The mainstream news said this marks the end of the Trump era and his future in politics. That Twitter is considering a long term ban. It sounds like the USS Trump is sailing into the sunset and the rats are bailing out as it goes.
the rats are bailing out as it goes.
Teehee...so true.
Details on State capitals with similar struggles today
https://apple.news/AsFw_7iCBRaCl5-DOBqAWZg
ApatheticNoMore
1-7-21, 12:52am
it's peaceful, just it better be as there is literally no hospital capacity, so one just endures weeks and weeks with no end soon (maybe Feb) of knowing hospitals aren't there if you need them, not that one needs them often but that's precisely it. noone better get that sick or injured, hold off all accidents for a few weeks etc., hold one's breath.
happystuff
1-7-21, 12:07pm
And believe it or not, everything is not racist.
Viewed from the eyes of someone (generally speaking - not saying anyone specifically) living with unacknowledged/unrecognized "white privilege", I'm sure this would be a believable statement. I, however, am not convinced as yet that racism - and other biases - isn't linked in some way to pretty much everything.
happystuff
1-7-21, 12:08pm
Working nights, I heard news of the events, but very few details. I'm still looking, reading, etc. but at this point in time I am feeling such overwhelming sadness, disappointment and sorrow all around.
iris lilies
1-7-21, 12:51pm
Viewed from the eyes of someone (generally speaking - not saying anyone specifically) living with unacknowledged/unrecognized "white privilege", I'm sure this would be a believable statement. I, however, am not convinced as yet that racism - and other biases - isn't linked in some way to pretty much everything.
Yes, I live in St. Louis where everything is about race. Even when it’s not.
ApatheticNoMore
1-7-21, 1:20pm
Considering vast numbers of the protestors being mentioned, even though they are irrelevant to the subject, were white people (portland is pretty white you know). Uh ...
iris lilies
1-7-21, 1:24pm
Considering vast numbers of the protestors being mentioned, even though they are irrelevant to the subject, were white people (portland is pretty white you know). Uh ...
I don’t understand this point.
The subject here is “Coup.” Other terms used are “rioting “” protesting. “
Yes, I live in St. Louis where everything is about race. Even when it’s not.
The world/US is more and bigger than St Louis, MO: just saying...
Probably should delete this post but...
iris lilies
1-7-21, 1:49pm
The world/US is more and bigger than St Louis, MO: just saying...
Probably should delete this post but...
Do You believe that everything is not about race? If so, then...
Congratulations. So do I.
I think it's interesting to see so much talk of race in a discussion about something that has nothing to do with race. Yesterday we saw a perfect example of what happens when a mob coalesces around a narrative and today (on a much smaller level) we get to hear judgmental condemnation from others actively coalescing around another narrative.
It's easy to see how mobs form.
As discussions have a tendency to do, there is progression and often times side topics are developed and included. Unless I totally missed something (sorry if I have!), the topic of race was introduced to this discussion based on the police/security response to the "mob/group/protesters/whatever you want to call them" actions in yesterday's events versus the police/security responses to other "mob/group/protesters/whatever you want to call them" in the recent past.
Again, I stand by my previous post that I do believe race - at some point and to some degree - had *something* to do with yesterday's events as much as it had to do with previously mentioned events.
iris lilies
1-7-21, 2:34pm
As discussions have a tendency to do, there is progression and often times side topics are developed and included. Unless I totally missed something (sorry if I have!), the topic of race was introduced to this discussion based on the police/security response to the "mob/group/protesters/whatever you want to call them" actions in yesterday's events versus the police/security responses to other "mob/group/protesters/whatever you want to call them" in the recent past.
Again, I stand by my previous post that I do believe race - at some point and to some degree - had *something* to do with yesterday's events as much as it had to do with previously mentioned events.
We are all acknowledging that a white protester was shot dead yesterday, right? Does that help to even out Racial injustice by police,?
ApatheticNoMore
1-7-21, 2:39pm
the topic of race was introduced to this discussion based on the police/security response to the "mob/group/protesters/whatever you want to call them" actions in yesterday's events versus the police/security responses to other "mob/group/protesters/whatever you want to call them" in the recent past.
But many of the BLM protesters WERE white. It may have more to do with police forces being infiltrated by far right groups. But also there actually is an argument for deescalation not escalation in such a situation so that not escalating may not have been the wrong call, still more arrests would have been nice.
We are all acknowledging that a white protester was shot dead yesterday, right? Does that help to even out Racial injustice by police,?
No - dead is dead and, while that is included as a result of the events, you are not discussing "race issues" in the same perspective as I am. I'm also getting the feeling you are pulling the "trolling" tactics here that you have so readily admitted to doing in the past so... no thanks. :)
Besides, it's also time to get ready for work. I'll try to catch up tomorrow.
I think it's interesting to see so much talk of race in a discussion about something that has nothing to do with race. Yesterday we saw a perfect example of what happens when a mob coalesces around a narrative and today (on a much smaller level) we get to hear judgmental condemnation from others actively coalescing around another narrative.
It's easy to see how mobs form.
Actually, it is about race but in a form of fear. The reporting of the November and the Georgia vote was about white vs those of colour?; the protestors on Capitol on January 6/21 were white or of colour?; the questions comparing the police response to white Supermacists' actions in earlier protests which killed people vs the response to BLM protests; the longterm design and planning of housing to separate race by colour; educational funding by race; incarceration rates by colour; birther questions?;...
The USA has not yet dealt with this continuing undercurrent and the rest of the world reads the reports and books written by American authors detailing the causes, conditions and challenges. Add to this all the additional challenges facing everyone in the world like the pandemic, climate change, etc. I have no desire to become a politician. Many have become so disillusioned with the challenges that they become manipulated by their own self-interest. I admire the Georgia Secretary of State and others who stood for the principle of accuracy despite all the risks.
The so-called coup was staged by white people who have been strongly encouraged to oppose anything other than the memory of the past with the illusion that then things will go back to Make America Great Again. Keeping a state of agitation/chaos in operation was key. It was and is a hypnotic illusion.
The US is not unique in this. Britain has gone through Brexit because too many want things to be the way the remember. It will be interesting to see how that works out as well.
Canada is in it to a similar degree with the aboriginal situation despite Reconciliation efforts but it is being acknowledged as a problem that needs resolution. Getting everyone to see a way ahead has proven illusive. Look at African countries and their issues, the Mid-East with religious conflict, Asia
Human beings seem to thrive on creating criteria and seeing their fellow man/woman as the "other" giving them reasons to behave foolishly.
Viewed from the eyes of someone (generally speaking - not saying anyone specifically) living with unacknowledged/unrecognized "white privilege", I'm sure this would be a believable statement. I, however, am not convinced as yet that racism - and other biases - isn't linked in some way to pretty much everything.
So I woke up this morning and saw a news report that protesters were wearing shirts that said “6MWE”. The stands for “6,000,000 were not enough”.
Remember back a few years when I talked about the fear of us going down the same path as Germany did in the 1930s? Many of you pooh-poohed me? Many of you said that we can’t be comparing everything to Hitler? That when we bring up Hitler it just incites arguments and that it’s not comparable? Remember yesterday when I said that this is mostly about racism? Remember how so many of you disagreed with me?
What the hell. I guess I was right.
6MWE = 6 million wasn’t enough
To clarify
Sorry to be dense, but who are the 6M?
I think it’s probably a mistake trying to explain complex events with a simplistic race reductionism. There are too many political and cultural moving parts to think you can understand or address most major issues with such a primitive tool. It’s similar to the distortions Marxists introduce in their focus on class. You become as much a prisoner of your own doctrine as a fundamentalist religious sect trying to explain away evolution.
iris lilies
1-7-21, 4:31pm
Sorry to be dense, but who are the 6M?
...
...
...
Glad you aren’t on Reddit asking that…
We love you here and know you are a sincere, brave, and real person. For that reason I will tell you the 6 million refers to the Jews killed by Hitler in World War II.
...
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Glad you aren’t on Reddit asking that…
OK, but I'm not on Reddit. I'm in a "safe space," so who are the 6M?
Maybe I'm becoming all TOO isolated in my island sanctuary.
So I woke up this morning and saw a news report that protesters were wearing shirts that said “6MWE”. The stands for “6,000,000 were not enough”.
Remember back a few years when I talked about the fear of us going down the same path as Germany did in the 1930s? Many of you pooh-poohed me? Many of you said that we can’t be comparing everything to Hitler? That when we bring up Hitler it just incites arguments and that it’s not comparable? Remember yesterday when I said that this is mostly about racism? Remember how so many of you disagreed with me?
What the hell. I guess I was right.
Despite the cogent arguments of t-shirt based analysis, I still think you’re wrong.
I think it’s probably a mistake trying to explain complex events with a simplistic race reductionism. There are too many political and cultural moving parts to think you can understand or address most major issues with such a primitive tool. It’s similar to the distortions Marxists introduce in their focus on class. You become as much a prisoner of your own doctrine as a fundamentalist religious sect trying to explain away evolution.
Can you at least agree that racism is a part of this shameful picture?
iris lilies
1-7-21, 4:34pm
OK, but I'm not on Reddit. I'm in a "safe space," so who are the 6M?
Maybe I'm becoming all TOO isolated in my island sanctuary.
sorry, I edited my response to give you the answer.
Despite the cogent arguments of t-shirt based analysis, I still think you’re wrong.
And I think you’re racist. It’s right in front of your face. And you excuse it.
ApatheticNoMore
1-7-21, 4:34pm
I disagreed with the police response necessarily being about racism, this is not about police response. Although police infiltration with far right might be going on as well.
It's 6 million jews, which by the way in u.s. racial categorization are mostly considered, you got it: white people.
iris lilies
1-7-21, 4:35pm
Can you at least agree that racism is a part of this shameful picture?
You didn’t ask me but sure, I can agree that race plays in some fashion in the whole world of Trumpian politics. If you specifically mean the attempted “coup “maybe but far less so.
I’m with Ldahl in that I do not respect your opinion drawn from a slogan on one person’s T-shirt. I’m sorry that you can’t see how you’re cherry picking pieces to fit your chosen narrative.
...
...
...
Glad you aren’t on Reddit asking that…
We love you here and know you are a sincere, brave, and real person. For that reason I will tell you the 6 million refers to the Jews killed by Hitler in World War II.
Thank you.
Can you at least agree that racism is a part of this shameful picture?
I do, but only a part. But then again, I’m a racist.
And I think you’re racist. It’s right in front of your face. And you excuse it.
Modern neuroscience teaches us that everyone is racist. It's encoded into our brains.
The question is: what do you do about it?
What I do is this: I walk away.
Alan - please delete my profile, etc.
I sincerely wish all of you the best. But I can’t continue.
What I do is this: I walk away.
Alan - please delete my profile, etc.
I sincerely wish all of you the best. But I can’t continue.
Tammy, please don't leave! Think of the rest of us that really value your input.
ApatheticNoMore
1-7-21, 4:54pm
Good luck, get well, enjoy your retirement, even if not exactly under the circumstances at your choosing (covid).
It's 6 million jews, which by the way in u.s. racial categorization are mostly considered, you got it: white people.
Well, maybe recently Jews have been considered "white" in America, but....
iris lilies
1-7-21, 5:03pm
Modern neuroscience teaches us that everyone is racist. It's encoded into our brains.
The question is: what do you do about it?
This right here is one of several reasons why I have a little patience with race education. Like all issues in education, The dominant idea changes.
20 -25 years ago we were being taught that racism stems completely from our environment. “No baby is born racist. “ I can’t tell you how many times that was repeated in my education.
So now we find the babies are indeed born racist?
Science. Always believe it. Even when it changes every whipstitch.
So now we find the babies are indeed born racist?
Science. Always believe it. Even when it changes every whipstitch.
Well, if you'd look into the matter, you'd find something interesting about how our brains are constructed. Our brains seem to react differently to "the other", as a matter of wiring. That's not a moral failing.
Well, if you'd look into the matter, you'd find something interesting about how our brains are constructed. Our brains seem to react differently to "the other", as a matter of wiring. That's not a moral failing.
I've heard that as well. From an evolutionary point of view, we tend to categorize or compartmentalize people or things that may prove to be threats. Once we know that, we can adjust our responses to specific situations.
See also "Cat vs. Cucumber"
See also "Cat vs. Cucumber"
Is that some primordial fear of snakes at work?
Is that some primordial fear of snakes at work?
Well, when I tried it on my cat, she used the same studious "I don't care, where's my food" look she always has.
iris lilies
1-7-21, 5:32pm
Well, if you'd look into the matter, you'd find something interesting about how our brains are constructed. Our brains seem to react differently to "the other", as a matter of wiring. That's not a moral failing.
I won’t look into it further because I believe you. Makes sense to me.
What I don’t understand is why the educators of 20-25 years ago in all of the correct-think Kamps I attended did not promote this fact.
Rather than the science of the moment, I am more interested in why this particular science is of THIS moment. How did it come up into our consciousness. How was it and why was it confiscated for the dominant societal outlook, assuming that it is the current thought.
I won’t do a deep dive into this because I don’t have that much interest in it it, But if I run across a good discussion online about my question I will share it here.
What I don’t understand is why the educators of 20-25 years ago in all of the correct-think Kamps I attended did not promote this fact.
Rather than the science of the moment, I am more interested in why this particular science is of THIS moment.
As I understand it, some of the research uses technology that only recently has been affordable and accessible for the "soft sciences". In particular, high resolution MRI/neuroimaging voodoo. So, no conspiracy other than "market forces drive down prices and increase availability".
Tammy, please don't leave! Think of the rest of us that really value your input.
This is really sad. Tammy, your posts are important.
iris lilies
1-7-21, 5:41pm
As I understand it, some of the research uses technology that only recently has been affordable and accessible for the "soft sciences". In particular, high resolution MRI/neuroimaging voodoo. So, no conspiracy other than "market forces drive down prices and increase availability".
Does this mean I can throw away my class notes and volumes of instructional materials* that were delivered in ponderous tones of “this is so good for us” Lectures? And we can now get to the nitty-gritty of how do we deal with inherent racist attitudes? To me, this seems very freeing to actually get to a place that makes sense.
unfortunately the tide has also turned in a way that I don’t like. I wish we could get to a place where, as Alan often states, we look at humans by Martin Luther King‘s criteria not the color of their skin. But I think we’re stuck for a while in this societal mileau where we must view everyone as a color/gender/class/sexual preference object First, and look at their character secondarily.
At least this too will pass. I might be dead by then but that’s OK. Society moves on in how it views things.
*Not really. I certainly don’t mess up my house with reams of this material. Just kidding. But yeah, back in the day, we all came back from our little race workshops clutching our little piles of instructional material.
And we can now get to the nitty-gritty of how do we deal with inherent racist attitudes? To me, this seems very freeing to actually get to a place that makes sense.
I think that's how it is going these days in most reasonable places. Certainly the various diversity/inclusiveness trainings and seminars I've been subjected to over the past few years have used that approach.
Sorry to be dense, but who are the 6M?
It would’ve been so much easier if they’d just followed the ‘good people’ (according to some people’s idea of a great president) at the Charlottesville event and just used ‘Jews will not replace us’.
I wonder how many more of the cops will be found to have been traitorous participants in the coup yesterday?
https://mobile.twitter.com/bumbera_steven/status/1347270969988173825?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1347270969988173825%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2 021%2F1%2F7%2F2006774%2F-Twitter-sounds-off-with-receipts-of-police-complicity-in-the-Capitol-attack-yesterday
https://mobile.twitter.com/sugaspov/status/1346919943238000645?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1346919943238000645%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2 021%2F1%2F7%2F2006774%2F-Twitter-sounds-off-with-receipts-of-police-complicity-in-the-Capitol-attack-yesterday
happystuff
1-8-21, 11:23am
Modern neuroscience teaches us that everyone is racist. It's encoded into our brains.
The question is: what do you do about it?
Great question!
I do question the encoded part, though, as I believe brains are encoded to recognize "differences", but I would want more info if our brains are actually encoded for "racism" or just differences. "Behaviors", "beliefs", etc. - at least in my opinion, are learned and, as such, can also be unlearned.
Racism -
"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
-the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another."
I think there is a fine-line and perspective of definitions/etc. vary.
happystuff
1-8-21, 11:26am
Tammy, so sorry if you actually leave! I hope it will just be a temporary hiatus. Wishing you continued healing and recovery.
I think like many other influences on our behavior, there is a combination of nature and nurture at play. Our evolutionary history probably had good reason for most of us to be repelled by snakes or spiders, but that doesn’t mean some of us don’t keep them as pets. Having a sex drive doesn’t mean you have to be a racist. A long history of evolutionary pressures that benefited favoring one’s own relations or clan over others doesn’t mean we have to be racist.
iris lilies
1-8-21, 11:39am
I think like many other influences on our behavior, there is a combination of nature and nurture at play. Our evolutionary history probably had good reason for most of us to be repelled by snakes or spiders, but that doesn’t mean some of us don’t keep them as pets. Having a sex drive doesn’t mean you have to be a racist. A long history of evolutionary pressures that benefited favoring one’s own relations or clan over others doesn’t mean we have to be racist.
oh sure. It’s just that if the premise of an entire teaching module is flawed, it makes much of the course flawed.
Yes, nature versus nurture is always in play.
happystuff
1-8-21, 11:42am
I also agree that nature and nurture is at play. I think nurture is definitely that "learned" part that can then be unlearned. And, to a degree, I think some of nature can also be individually changed. My initial thought on an example here is someone who carries the genetics with a tendency towards alcoholism (quick google search below, says 50%), but who over-comes the disease and remains sober.
https://americanaddictioncenters.org/alcoholism-treatment/symptoms-and-signs/hereditary-or-genetic
Teacher Terry
1-8-21, 11:45am
Tammy, I really hope you decide to stay. I really value your opinion.
Comparison of police response to BLM protests and MAGA mob: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/police-response-black-lives-matter-protest-us-capitol/index.html
Apparently, outside of the Capitol Police, whose loyalties were clearly divided, there were many police agencies ready and willing to respond that were rebuffed. Reports are that Trump never did call any of them up--he was too busy partying with his fam in celebration of the riots. Pence eventually did.
There may be a gene that encodes for "othering" strangers, but I bet epigenetics influence how it gets expressed.
oh sure. It’s just that if the premise of an entire teaching module is flawed, it makes much of the course flawed.
Yes, nature versus nurture is always in play.
There seem to be fashions in education that ebb and flow. I remember as an undergraduate biology student in the 70s a case where a lecturer had things thrown at him for saying that intelligence and behavior had a genetic component. Of course, we didn’t have the well-developed culture of shutting down ideas you have on campus today.
Sorry to see you go, Tammy.
I’ve decided I’m staying out of the political stuff. It’s just too much. I’m staying out of it everywhere, not just here.
I will miss Tammy also. She was a voice of reason. Somethings are hard to talk about and times are stressful.
I have read behavioral studies indicating that we all have some degree of sub-conscious racism, whether it is inherited through some form of epigenetics or by environment. Maybe it was in a Malcom Gladwell book, possibly Blink. I've forgotten the details. The issue is what we do with it. I believe there is something like benevolent racism, where it is recognized and dealt with, or we have otherwise have overridden sub-conscious tendencies with reason.
iris lilies
1-8-21, 2:27pm
I will miss Tammy also. She was a voice of reason. Somethings are hard to talk about and times are stressful.
I have read behavioral studies indicating that we all have some degree of sub-conscious racism, whether it is inherited through some form of epigenetics or by environment. Maybe it was in a Malcom Gladwell book, possibly Blink. I've forgotten the details. The issue is what we do with it. I believe there is something like benevolent racism, where it is recognized and dealt with, or we have otherwise have overridden sub-conscious tendencies with reason.
Yes, that is why, or one reason anyway, why having the label “racist” flung at me holds little meaning for me.
This situation is sadly typical. I will miss Tammy, she has strong and reasonable points of view. But someone who doesn’t venture into the political discussions here then doing a deep dive, subsequently finding unacceptable responses, then flouncing off just before calling someone “racist”—This is a typical behavior pattern on the Internet.
It will be interesting to see if this kind of behavior lessens “racist “posts all over the Internet as time goes on.
I do observe, because I skate through a lot of forums, that there is a sincere effort to combat racism and other isms in chat forums. Those forums without stated goals are having a hell of a time moderating themselves. A noble goal, but can every forum be a “safe space?”
My inclination is to stay away from them until they get things settled. Write the rules, get them posted, and then maybe I’ll see if those are rules I want to follow.
In one of the forums grappling with how they want to go forward combating all the isms, one poster said very clearly: we can either be a safe space where everyone is in agreement about all things, or we can be a welcoming community. The latter means people will join up with different ideas that some find threatening. I thought this was well put.
Wondered if trump is impeached ... what benefits would he lose? Thought it interesting.
So, the sole benefit that an impeached and convicted President would receive as a former President is Secret Service protection; not the pension, not the stipend for office staff and personal assistants, not the gold-plated health insurance.
Accordingly, he would receive more if he resigned.
ApatheticNoMore
1-8-21, 4:50pm
He could not run again. That is a real benefit. They should impeach.
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-21, 5:55pm
I'm sorry to see Tammy go, too. We both live in Phoenix. Sent her an email, hope to.keep in touch. And politics lately is getting nasty period. Everyone here knows my liberal stances by now - maybe it would be the best for at least myself to get back to the original purpose of this board. You'all can predict my takes by this point and likely have heard enough of the 85006, no? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-21, 6:00pm
Tammy is what I would consider an outstanding member here. Does it not bother anyone she's leaving due to internal strife here?
I hereby abstain from political and 85006 posts going forward. This little is what I can do for this community. Tammy's leaving woke me up on this issue. Rob
iris lilies
1-8-21, 6:08pm
Tammy is what I would consider an outstanding member here. Does it not bother anyone she's leaving due to internal strife here?
I hereby abstain from political and 85006 posts going forward. This little is what I can do for this community. Tammy's leaving woke me up on this issue. Rob
she didnt leave due to “strife.” Did you read her words?
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-21, 6:13pm
Strife is my pleasant spin on it - and yes, I did go back and read her words and understand her decision. None of this can I change - but I CAN change what I post. FWIW, I agree with Tammy's take. Rob
Tammy is what I would consider an outstanding member here. Does it not bother anyone she's leaving due to internal strife here?
Yes, Tammy is an outstanding member and will be missed. It bothers me that her leaving will be blamed on people who did nothing more than question a cherished premise that genuinely seems questionable. I'd like to think that we enjoy diversity a little more than that and am more than a little distressed to see that diversity characterized as strife.
It bothers me that her leaving will be blamed on people who did nothing more than question a cherished premise that genuinely seems questionable.
I don't see it that way at all. She felt disrespected years ago (bringing up her concerns on Trump) After this week's incident, she is saying do you now see what I was saying, and was again disrespected.
Well, this whole coup business has really boosted my stock portfolio, so there's that.
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-21, 7:24pm
I don't see it that way at all. She felt disrespected years ago (bringing up her concerns on Trump) After this week's incident, she is saying do you now see what I was saying, and was again disrespected.This is also my take. Rob
Gee, whiz, when I read Rob's post all I could think of was the the old '70s Coke commercial. We as a group, by virtue of our common mission of simple living, are as counter-cultural as the "hippies" exploited by the Coke marketing department to spread love and peace to all consumers of soft drinks.
I think we as a group are lucky to be able to bend, yet not break, with opposing opinions and beliefs. Sometimes we cross the line, but for the most part, we are--dare I say it?--a family of sorts. So we tolerate some things, we push back and argue about others, we know that X is going to say "xxxxxx" in response to a question and Y is going to say "yyyyy" but we go along because there's a basic foundation of respect for what brought all of us here to begin with.
I started this post before my neighbors dropped by unexpectedly and I had to abort it, and since then, now I'm back, and I see that Geila admitted to crying over a post and IL has put herself in forum time-out for 4 weeks. Please, guys, let's try to get along. This makes me sad.
I invite anyone who cares to to PM me with personal contact information and I will reply with mine. I'm so afraid that we are going to wind up like Trump's White House with everyone jumping ship. I consider many of you to be close friends and in most cases, I don't even know your names.
Maybe the most logical cure for mending fences is to get back to simple living topics primarily. I try to remember that when I post but it isn't always easy when you want to discuss something else.
ApatheticNoMore
1-8-21, 10:12pm
I vote for no more posts about masks or other misinformation about a fricken *pandemic*.
I’m spending a lot more time on a diving forum and diving groups on FB. No politics.
Gee, whiz, when I read Rob's post all I could think of was the the old '70s Coke commercial. We as a group, by virtue of our common mission of simple living, are as counter-cultural as the "hippies" exploited by the Coke marketing department to spread love and peace to all consumers of soft drinks.
I think we as a group are lucky to be able to bend, yet not break, with opposing opinions and beliefs. Sometimes we cross the line, but for the most part, we are--dare I say it?--a family of sorts. So we tolerate some things, we push back and argue about others, we know that X is going to say "xxxxxx" in response to a question and Y is going to say "yyyyy" but we go along because there's a basic foundation of respect for what brought all of us here to begin with.
I started this post before my neighbors dropped by unexpectedly and I had to abort it, and since then, now I'm back, and I see that Geila admitted to crying over a post and IL has put herself in forum time-out for 4 weeks. Please, guys, let's try to get along. This makes me sad.
I invite anyone who cares to to PM me with personal contact information and I will reply with mine. I'm so afraid that we are going to wind up like Trump's White House with everyone jumping ship. I consider many of you to be close friends and in most cases, I don't even know your names.
She said only for Public Policy forum... otherwise she will be posting.
early morning
1-9-21, 5:07pm
Maybe the most logical cure for mending fences is to get back to simple living topics primarily. I try to remember that when I post but it isn't always easy when you want to discuss something else.
While I understand this, I have to say I would hate to lose the public policy board. There was a LOT of discussion about whether to keep it or not, when we migrated to this website from Dave Wampler's. (Can you believe that was 10 years ago???) I do believe it's the NICEST place to discuss politics. I know I don't care for the rough and tumble of other discussion boards. I just do not go there, and really appreciate the relative civility of this board and that we are pretty good at self-moderating. As with all of the boards here, if it bothers you, you don't have to read it or post to it, but I for one would really hate to see it go. Just sayin'.
She said only for Public Policy forum... otherwise she will be posting.
Oh, cool! Thanks for pointing that out.
ApatheticNoMore
1-9-21, 5:25pm
I saw some relevance because policy affects personal financial decisions, the ACA (and healthcare), social security, and so on and on. I saw the relevance as it affects environmental policy (which is a subforum but not one getting almost any traction for awhile). So politics is just going to manifest anyway I figured. But almost none of those issues are ACTUALLY ones discussed on public policy much anyway it turns out.
The Public Policy Forum has always been the place where things were most likely to get a bit heated, but that being said, I do think people are pretty civil most of the time. I guess I would recommend keeping out of that one if you are very thin-skinned. I try to avoid being snarky or offensive because people here don't really know me and I might not get the same benefit of the doubt for overall good intentions as I might from those who know and love me in real life.
I feel terrible that Tammy and Geila were hurt, but I also don't see that anything so very bad was said. I think people in general might be feeling a bit more fragile right now, and we would do well to keep that in mind.
My priority is my diving. Not politics. I double majored in political science and journalism in college. But it’s just gotten to be too much.
I do, but only a part. But then again, I’m a racist.
I’ve returned to simply apologize for calling you a racist. I believe that our entire nation is steeped in systemic racism, which is reflected in many of our individual lives. I don’t know if you personally are racist.
I’ve returned to simply apologize for calling you a racist. I believe that our entire nation is steeped in systemic racism, which is reflected in many of our individual lives. I don’t know if you personally are racist.
Tammy, it is so good to see you posting, and I hope you stay.
I’ve returned to simply apologize for calling you a racist. I believe that our entire nation is steeped in systemic racism, which is reflected in many of our individual lives. I don’t know if you personally are racist.I think it may be too late to apologize, he hasn't checked back in over the last 9 days so it looks like he may have moved on to a friendlier pasture. I'll miss him.
catherine
1-17-21, 11:01pm
I think it may be too late to apologize, he hasn't checked back in over the last 9 days so it looks like he may have moved on to a friendlier pasture. I'll miss him.
Seriously?? I really hope not. :(
I think it may be too late to apologize, he hasn't checked back in over the last 9 days so it looks like he may have moved on to a friendlier pasture. I'll miss him.
That’s a shame. I would have hoped that he would have thought about what Tammy was saying. But if not I suppose we’ll have to go on with our lives.
Glad to see you back, Tammy. I hope LDAHL is back soon, too.
That’s a shame. I would have hoped that he would have thought about what Tammy was saying. But if not I suppose we’ll have to go on with our lives.
Don’t worry. I was just dealing with some stuff in what we jokingly call the real world.
I’ve returned to simply apologize for calling you a racist. I believe that our entire nation is steeped in systemic racism, which is reflected in many of our individual lives. I don’t know if you personally are racist.
Think nothing of it. That epithet has been so overused I see it more as a sort of bookkeeping designation than a personal insult.
happystuff
1-18-21, 11:41am
Unnecessary post. Have a great day, everyone.
Unnecessary post. Have a great day, everyone.
Every post is unnecessary.
happystuff
1-18-21, 12:01pm
Every post is unnecessary.
LOL. To some, probably.
gimmethesimplelife
1-19-21, 9:56am
Me too.Make that me three. Rob
I saw headlines trumpeting something like "Antifa Smashes Windows in Portland, Seattle" which puzzled me until I saw the anarchist graffiti in another article. So Antifa (which doesn't really exist as a thing) is getting the blame for anarchist destruction, which has been going on for decades around here. Note: an encircled A is the anarchist symbol. Hope that helps. :)
I agree with the guy who said Antifa is more of a stupid ideology than a stupid organization, although many stupid things are done in the name of this stupid ideology. Sort of like the Bronies of left wing extremism.
Or the whole thing may be a false front for Seattle glaziers.
Or the whole thing may be a false front for Seattle glaziers.I agree that glaziers are the primary beneficiary but suspect the false front is simply the result of liberal governance. Participants in ongoing violence and destruction gravitate to areas where that activity is excused and tolerated such as the progressive havens of Portland and Seattle. The broken windows theory makes a lot of sense.
And yet hundreds of thousands of people live happily in those cities. Housing prices have taken another leap lately.
I'm happy to live in a liberal stronghold, warts and all.
I agree that glaziers are the primary beneficiary but suspect the false front is simply the result of liberal governance. Participants in ongoing violence and destruction gravitate to areas where that activity is excused and tolerated such as the progressive havens of Portland and Seattle. The broken windows theory makes a lot of sense.
Sort of like the Disney World and Disneyland for revolutionary fantasists?
I agree that glaziers are the primary beneficiary but suspect the false front is simply the result of liberal governance. Participants in ongoing violence and destruction gravitate to areas where that activity is excused and tolerated such as the progressive havens of Portland and Seattle. The broken windows theory makes a lot of sense.
Personally I’d rather live in Seattle or Portland than somewhere where it’s considered acceptable for hoodlums in big trucks to try and drive presidential campaign buses off the road. But I suppose everyone chooses what they consider acceptable.
And for the record the broken windows theory has been proven false. Further study has shown that rather than upping police harassment of residents a far better and cheaper solution is just fixing the damn windows.
And for the record the broken windows theory has been proven false. Further study has shown that rather than upping police harassment of residents a far better and cheaper solution is just fixing the damn windows.
That’s what the glaziers want you to think!
Personally I’d rather live in Seattle or Portland than somewhere where it’s considered acceptable for hoodlums in big trucks to try and drive presidential campaign buses off the road. But I suppose everyone chooses what they consider acceptable.
And for the record the broken windows theory has been proven false. Further study has shown that rather than upping police harassment of residents a far better and cheaper solution is just fixing the damn windows.
Come to Chicago! Carjackings are through the roof. 150 so far for this year. All neighborhoods being hit.
Come to Chicago! Carjackings are through the roof. 150 so far for this year. All neighborhoods being hit.
If all neighborhoods are being hit then clearly the broken windows theory doesn't hold, at least regarding car jackings. Unless of course all the neighborhoods have broken windows equally.
happystuff
1-23-21, 10:30pm
Take my car - PLEASE! :|(
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