View Full Version : For Trump Voters...
I see there's a long thread about recent events and rather than read through the whole 12 pages and see if my question has come up, I'll just post it here.
With current events as they stand, do any of the members here who voted for Trump regret it? Or are you still glad you did and would do it again?
Caveat - I've gotten snippets of all that's going on from public radio and that's about it, so it's just a general personal question that came to me this morning on my drive.
With current events as they stand, do any of the members here who voted for Trump regret it? Or are you still glad you did and would do it again?
I think I've lost track of how many times this question has been asked on these forums over the past 4 years, although to be fair it's usually asked as a trap to belittle anyone willing to admit to their perceived malfeasance.
Since you probably won't get anyone else to fall into that trap again, I'll reiterate what I've said several times in the past. I voted for Trump in 2016 and again in 2020 because I believe the increasing radicalization of the Democratic Party is a danger to the country. My only regret is that I didn't have a viable Republican to vote for. In 2016 I had high hopes that Trump would get over his narcissistic tendencies, in 2020 I did it because I fully expected him to lose but couldn't justify a Biden vote given his pandering to the far left.
In 2016 I had high hopes that Trump would get over his narcissistic tendencies,
Let that be a lesson to you, Alan. People don't change, and with power, narcissism is bound to only escalate. Character in leadership DOES matter. Trump is not worthy to touch the hem of your garment, Alan. You (and the rest of us) deserve better.
It’s becoming very difficult for me to remain friends with anyone who still supports their vote for this insurrectionist.
What will it take to recognize evil?
It’s becoming very difficult for me to remain friends with anyone who still supports their vote for this insurrectionist.
What will it take to recognize evil?
It is important to step back and recover from the deep disappointment at negative human behaviour. Gradually, you will find that there are more of your thinking than you realized at first. Also, recognize that you cannot do it alone anyway. I have learned from others with whom I have shared.
My approach has been to strive to exemplify the opposite of evil in any way that I can in my thinking and actions. That approach seems to bring the evil into the spotlight where it can be seen for what it really is by providing a contrast. What people do in response is interesting to see - resistance, attack, regret and respect. Taking that approach is my long haul trip for a lifetime and I maintain my mental health as well.
You have the skill set and understanding and experience to know what I am talking about, Tammy. Hang in there because it is worth it.
The best way to reach Trump voters is to befriend them, not scold them. You can agree to disagree. Those who stormed the Capitol are not representative of the average Trump voter.
My intent for this thread is to seek how Trump voters on this site feel about recent events, to see if Trump's recent behavior (well, his behavior since election night until now) and whether it has changed how they feel about their vote. There are plenty of threads in which other debates and discussion can and are happening; let's have this one be about perspectives on personal action. If the thread becomes accusatory I won't be able hear what members feel about their vote. I hope y'all will understand.
I agree that there are many kinds of Trump voters. My DH was a Trump supporter, but he's in the "enough is enough" camp. Not all Trump supporters are right-wing extremists. DH does not regret his 2016 vote, but he respects the rule of law.
I voted for Trump in 2016 and again in 2020 because I believe the increasing radicalization of the Democratic Party is a danger to the country. My only regret is that I didn't have a viable Republican to vote for. In 2016 I had high hopes that Trump would get over his narcissistic tendencies, in 2020 I did it because I fully expected him to lose but couldn't justify a Biden vote given his pandering to the far left.
Alan - thank you for your response. When you say "...I believe the increasing radicalization of the Democratic Party is a danger to the country." What does that mean for you? I don't want to guess as I'd likely get it wrong and since I don't know what it means maybe you can explain it to me, maybe provide an example? There is no sarcasm or malice intended in my questions, I sincerely want to know your thoughts and feelings about it.
Alan - thank you for your response. When you say "...I believe the increasing radicalization of the Democratic Party is a danger to the country." What does that mean for you? I don't want to guess as I'd likely get it wrong and since I don't know what it means maybe you can explain it to me, maybe provide an example? There is no sarcasm or malice intended in my questions, I sincerely want to know your thoughts and feelings about it.I've noticed that some of the left's newest and favorite institutions are not what they appear to be. ANTIFA members are actual fascists and BLM members are avowed Marxists, self-avowed progressives use emotion rather than reason to justify their attacks on free speech and other individual rights, anyone holding different political views are routinely presented as racist, homophobic, misanthropic cretins and I believe that collectivism, in all it's forms, are bad for the country.
I also believe that any governmental entity still allowing an opening or closing prayer thinking that it's concluding 'Amen' could be followed by 'A-women' are too silly to trust with governance.
I agree that there are many kinds of Trump voters. My DH was a Trump supporter, but he's in the "enough is enough" camp. Not all Trump supporters are right-wing extremists. DH does not regret his 2016 vote, but he respects the rule of law.
I think you’re right. For example yesterday tradd posted that she felt trump needed to be removed by the 25th amendment. I wasn’t surprised by this since she’s definitely, like your husband, a ‘rule of law’ kind of person.
SO is Facebook friends with a couple of hardcore trump supporters that he went to high school with. They were both convinced that he was somehow going to stay in office. As recently as last week I had a spirited conversation with them on Facebook that ended after I explained how the electoral college works and they launched into gibberish that It didn’t matter and I didn’t understand what was going to happen. I guess we saw yesterday what was going to happen but it didn’t turn out the way they expected it to. Someone with that level of delusion can’t be reasoned with. But that is not what anywhere near all of the 74 million trump voters are like. There are undoubtedly many who are rational people who just have a different vision for what this country is/should be.
Personally I believe that a president encouraging seditionists is about the worst thing for the country. But I suppose other people have different priorities. Like worrying about the looting of a random cvs or something.
The idea that the left is veering dangerously toward extremism is laughable to me. I'm a Sanders/Warren adjacent Independent who could hardly be a more responsible citizen or less dangerous to anyone. I would be totally unremarkable most anywhere in Europe. If anything, what passes for "left" in America has become barely effective as the right has surged, thanks to the oligarch's big money interests and years of Fox propaganda.
People, people. Please, I implore you to refrain from attacks and judgmental statements on this thread against Trump or those who voted for him. As I've said twice, this thread is for me to gain understanding of a different point of view than mine. If members of this community who voted for Trump are attacked before they even say anything, why would they bother? Please, let this be a space where I can hear what they have to say. Please try to keep your opinions and feelings for Trump out of the thread. There's plenty of other threads where you can voice your personal views. Please.
People, people. Please, I implore you to refrain from attacks and judgmental statements on this thread against Trump or those who voted for him. As I've said twice, this thread is for me to gain understanding of a different point of view than mine. If members of this community who voted for Trump are attacked before they even say anything, why would they bother? Please, let this be a space where I can hear what they have to say. Please try to keep your opinions and feelings for Trump out of the thread. There's plenty of other threads where you can voice your personal views. Please.
I understand your frustration with the various direction(s) your OP may be taking, but most conversations tend to change and grow in various directions.
If I can make a suggestion - adjust your member settings so that anyone who would like to respond to your original request can do so privately through the site's messaging system. This way you can, hopefully, gain the information you would like and those who would like to respond - but maybe not publicly in this thread - can do so.
Good luck.
iris lilies
1-8-21, 2:11pm
People, people. Please, I implore you to refrain from attacks and judgmental statements on this thread against Trump or those who voted for him. As I've said twice, this thread is for me to gain understanding of a different point of view than mine. If members of this community who voted for Trump are attacked before they even say anything, why would they bother? Please, let this be a space where I can hear what they have to say. Please try to keep your opinions and feelings for Trump out of the thread. There's plenty of other threads where you can voice your personal views. Please.
i understand your frustration. But Geila, I think because you dont venture into political discussions on this forum you dont have an good idea of how many Trump supporters there are here. It is not enough to get much feedback.
I also value VERY MUCH the meandering nature of discussion on threads here, posts that may be tangential to the topic. I dipped into another forum last week that was downright petty in how tightly the thread police controlled it. They are very very careful there, and That isnt my vibe, wont be spending much time there.
You probably have heard from anyone you want to hear from at this point.
i understand your frustration. But Geila, I think because you dont venture into political discussions on this forum you dont have an good idea of how many Trump supporters there are here. It is not enough to get much feedback.
I also value VERY MUCH the meandering nature of discussion on threads here, posts that may be tangential to the topic. I dipped into another forum last week that was downright petty in how tightly the thread police controlled it. They are very very careful there, and That isnt my vibe, wont be spending much time there.
You probably have heard from anyone you want to hear from at this point.
I agree... I appreciate the question, but to be honest, if we were talking about any other Republican candidate it would be a different discussion, or no discussion at all. To IL's point, there aren't even that many Trump supporters here, and if they are, they are probably like my husband: relatively normal Republicans who like the platform and/or the party, not the personality.
I've noticed that some of the left's newest and favorite institutions are not what they appear to be. ANTIFA members are actual fascists and BLM members are avowed Marxists, self-avowed progressives use emotion rather than reason to justify their attacks on free speech and other individual rights, anyone holding different political views are routinely presented as racist, homophobic, misanthropic cretins and I believe that collectivism, in all it's forms, are bad for the country.
I also believe that any governmental entity still allowing an opening or closing prayer thinking that it's concluding 'Amen' could be followed by 'A-women' are too silly to trust with governance.
Well I'm glad I didn't try to guess what you meant! :) Alan, you used many big words, most of which I don't understand. My simplemindedness is showing, and I don't use the word disparagingly. I haven't studied philosophy, economic theory or politics so most of what you are referencing is over my head and I'm sure you don't have the desire or time to illuminate me. I did look up Marxism and was confused as to how that theory/belief system applies to the BLM movement and/or Trump. Maybe you can enlighten me on just that point? Granted, most people I know who support the Black Lives Matter movement are too busy working to go to protests and none of them would be looting. And no one I know in person has ever quoted Marxism to me! So this arena of intellectual thought is new to me. I respect black lives and I respect the good work that most police officers do, but in our media it seems that to support one is to attack the other.
Your very intellectual response shows the varied personal views of Trump voters. I have 2 people I care about very much who voted for him this last election and I was shocked by it because my view of Trump and what he represents (and the fact that the Republican Party has supported him) go against everything I've always thought these two people to be. And I've known them 40 years and 36 years respectively. Yesterday, the Maslow hierarchy of needs theory came to mind and in looking at it I realized that the 2 people I know find themselves in the Basic Needs area of the pyramid and I wondered about how that might affect their views and actions because I know first hand that stress completely colors our perceptions and behaviors. But, again, this is pure speculation on my part. I have not talked to them about it because I fear I might let emotion affect my ability to listen and understand their perspective. That's why I was hoping to have a respectful dialogue here.
As to the whole Amen and Awoman thing, I say we get rid of all of it! Isn't church and state supposed to be separate? But that's another topic all together. But I agree that spending resources of any kind on something like that is foolish. There are bigger issues to worry about. I didn't even know that was a thing. But I've been annoyed when our city tries to change established street names to public figures' names.
In my poll last November almost 21% of the votes from this forum were Trump votes. I hope the other members will join in the conversation.
iris lilies
1-8-21, 3:17pm
Geila, you do know of the Marxist origins of BLM, right? A little Googling will show you that. I would probably disagree with Alan that BLM is currently a Marxist organization because leaders have backpedaled fast and furious on supporting that ideology and economic system. Publicly anyway. Now that they are mainstream, they need to make the correct appearance in the public square.
Here is the heritage foundation’s latest opinion piece on BLM and Marxism. Heritage foundation is a respected organization on the political right of the spectrum
https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/commentary/the-agenda-black-lives-matter-far-different-the-slogan
ApatheticNoMore
1-8-21, 3:41pm
BLM strikes me more as opportunists cashing in if anything. The leaders and organization, not the genuine grassroots, IOW I am not saying anything about the people on the streets. Jeff Bezos supports and Amazon donates to BLM, and you think anyone believes they are going to advocate Marxism, appearances or not. Absurd. Look up the term: genetic fallacy.
Your very intellectual response shows the varied personal views of Trump voters. I have 2 people I care about very much who voted for him this last election and I was shocked by it because my view of Trump and what he represents (and the fact that the Republican Party has supported him) go against everything I've always thought these two people to be. And I've known them 40 years and 36 years respectively. Yesterday, the Maslow hierarchy of needs theory came to mind and in looking at it I realized that the 2 people I know find themselves in the Basic Needs area of the pyramid and I wondered about how that might affect their views and actions because I know first hand that stress completely colors our perceptions and behaviors. .
Interesting perspective on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and the Trump supporters. Something to think about.
My cousin and his wife are two of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. She, in particular, is an evangelical Christian and a Trump supporter. During the election cycle she would post strange memes about "The truth will come out" (Strange, because Trump is decidedly not a paragon of truth). She might represent another segment of Trump voters. She has all her basic needs met, and she and my cousin are talented and smart. Yet, yesterday, she posted a video on our family group page on FB of a Trumpster claiming that 3 busses lined up in Washington were Antifa members brought in by no other than the Secret Service.
I can understand how it's impossible to completely trust the government. I don't want to know all the shady dealings that go on in Washington. But to trust Trump OVER the government is something I don't really understand.
Geila, you do know of the Marxist origins of BLM, right? A little Googling will show you that. I would probably disagree with Alan that BLM is currently a Marxist organization because leaders have backpedaled fast and furious on supporting that ideology and economic system. Publicly anyway. Now that they are mainstream, they need to make the correct appearance in the public square.
Here is the heritage foundation’s latest opinion piece on BLM and Marxism. Heritage foundation is a respected organization on the political right of the spectrum
https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/commentary/the-agenda-black-lives-matter-far-different-the-slogan
I had no idea. Am I the only one who's been in the dark?
To clarify, I meant that if a person has not been able to meet all of their basic needs with the "old system" of government, I could understand them wanting a new system in the chance that it might help them provide for themselves and their families. And that the opportunity of an improvement in quality of life could negate a lot of other factors that would normally be unacceptable or undesirable. I felt that my comment made it seem like being in the lower hierarchy and the stress that induces made a person less intelligent or moral and that is not my intent nor my opinion.
iris lilies
1-8-21, 4:03pm
I had no idea. Am I the only one who's been in the dark?
Does that really matter though? If the label “Marxist” or “former Marxist” disturbs you, then you might want to look further into to any support you may be giving to BLM.
For me “”Marxist” doesnt disturb me and doesn’t cause me to delve into BLM goals and activities because I don’t support them anyway, so it just doesn’t matter to me. Also “Marxist” from my youth conjures up a whole lot of Jerry Rubins and Abby Hoffmans, those flamboyant bad boys. Due to them I am probably predisposed to look a bit kindly toward that crowd. I don’t take it as seriously as others.
YMMV
BLM has scrubbed their website of pretty much all the manifesto stuff from the early days. It looks like now it’s pretty much press releases and merch sales now.
Does that really matter though? If the label “Marxist” or “former Marxist” disturbs you, then you might want to look further into to any support you may be giving to BLM.
For me “”Marxist” doesnt disturb me and doesn’t cause me to delve into BLM goals and activities because I don’t support them anyway, so it just doesn’t matter to me. Also “Marxist” from my youth conjures up a whole lot of Jerry Rubins and Abby Hoffmans, those flamboyant bad boys. Due to them I am probably predisposed to look a bit kindly toward that crowd. I don’t take it as seriously as others.
YMMV
I don't understand Marxism and how that would/wouldn't affect BLM or Trump support. What I meant is that I had no idea that there was some sort of alleged secret political agenda in the movement. I thought it was all about helping Black Americans not get killed. I thought that was the core function and the agenda and had not heard otherwise.
iris lilies
1-8-21, 4:12pm
BLM has scrubbed their website of pretty much all the manifesto stuff from the early days. It looks like now it’s pretty much press releases and merch sales now.
I’m sure there are many small obscure organizations around our country that are Marxist organizations. As long as no one pays attention to them they can openly express views like that.
But if they want people like my neighbors who proudly display their Black Lives Matter signs to sign on and give them money* they need to back down on that shit. Which they did of course.
What is now in their hearts and minds it’s hard to discern.
* oh yeah, the money. That’s what counts.
ApatheticNoMore
1-8-21, 4:15pm
If there was any such agenda there could not possibly be now given who they seem to be getting money from (huge entities like Amazon, Dem party entities and this is not Marxist by any shared vocabulary etc. - I realize some like their whole alternative political science universe where words mean whatever they want them to mean and Nancy Pelosi is a Marxist, yea but words have no meaning then).
Besides what does the term movement even mean? Does one really think most people protesting do so after being part of some formal BLM organization? I don't think that is so.
relatively normal Republicans who like the platform ...
Platform? They didn't have a platform this year. Simply a loyalty oath.
https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-platform-at-rnc-pledge-trump-support-2020-8
People like to throw "Marxist" and "communist" around to weaponize language and shut down anyone who dares to question the status quo, IMO. I doubt there are enough actual Marxists/communists in this country to fill a janitor's closet. Collective bargaining and voting rights organizations are likely considered communistic by such people. As well as human rights in general.
iris lilies
1-8-21, 4:37pm
People like to throw "Marxist" and "communist" around to weaponize language and shut down anyone who dares to question the status quo, IMO. I doubt there are enough actual Marxists/communists in this country to fill a janitor's closet. Collective bargaining and voting rights organizations are likely considered communistic by such people. As well as human rights in general.
yes, when the money shows itself, the ideology disappears. Lurking underground or gone entirely, who knows. funny how that happens.
Speaking of perspective... something just occurred to me. If this thread was in the Relationship section of the forum, would it change your perception of the discussion? Since my goal is to understand another person's point of view and to preserve relationships, that's how I'm viewing this. It's a given that I don't know why someone supported Trump, so my intent is not to criticize/convert/denounce that vote, it's to understand it.
Maybe we should move the thread to Relationships. Maybe that would make it easier for members who find the politics aspect of it objectionable. Thoughts? Ideas? Maybe if we replace the word Trump with "salad spinner"? :) Just trying to keep the tone pleasant. ;)
iris lilies
1-8-21, 5:26pm
Speaking of perspective... something just occurred to me. If this thread was in the Relationship section of the forum, would it change your perception of the discussion? Since my goal is to understand another person's point of view and to preserve relationships, that's how I'm viewing this. It's a given that I don't know why someone supported Trump, so my intent is not to criticize/convert/denounce that vote, it's to understand it.
Maybe we should move the thread to Relationships. Maybe that would make it easier for members who find the politics aspect of it objectionable. Thoughts? Ideas? Maybe if we replace the word Trump with "salad spinner"? :) Just trying to keep the tone pleasant. ;)
Looking at your poll in November, 5 people said they would vote for Donald J. Trump.
So, you want to hear from 3 other people? Tradd already said she wasn’t going to participate in politics. Alan answered you. I can guess who 1 of the others were, but not all 3.
No, I would not bring a Trump thread to the Relationships forums. You asked your question. You received answers.
Teacher Terry
1-8-21, 5:29pm
My husband voted for Trump the first time because he is republican and hated Hillary. He voted for Biden this time because Trump got to crazy.
Speaking of perspective... something just occurred to me. If this thread was in the Relationship section of the forum, would it change your perception of the discussion? Since my goal is to understand another person's point of view and to preserve relationships, that's how I'm viewing this.
I would not enter into, or remain in, a relationship with someone who was a Trump supporter at this point in time.
In my forays into dating last year and early this year (pre-pandemic), that seemed to be one of the first questions people asked too, which I found educational.
ApatheticNoMore
1-8-21, 5:35pm
I feel a bit sad for those like pinkytoe dealing with it. My bf is not a Trump supporter and not far right nor right.
iris lilies
1-8-21, 5:39pm
I wont dump DH due to his vote for Trump.That idea is ridiculous to me.
I would be more concerned if DH took Covid precautions lightly. He does not.
Geila: I think your hierarchy of needs perspective is interesting and has merit. There are people I know and love who voted for Trump, and my theory has been that they tend to be more fear-motivated than those who do not like Trump. For example, they worry about their own standards of living being diminished, having less access to good healthcare, seeing social services swamped by immigrants, etc.
Count me along the people unaware that BLM supposedly had Marxist leanings at some point. I’m not particularly bothered or surprised by that if it is in fact the truth. After all, black people to this day have generally faired significantly worse than white people under capitalism, so why wouldn’t they be willing to consider supporting an alternative. (This of course assuming that they were actually proposing Marxism as opposed to tweaks to capitalism that might make rich people a little less rich and poor people a little less poor).
Because at the end of the day capitalism isn’t necessarily all that awesome for a lot of people. And even leads some people to be unable to differentiate between an attack on cvs and an attack on one of the key structures of our government. Personally I believe that our government is far more important but apparently some people think capitalist institutions like cvs are equally important and that attacks in either should be considered equally bad.
Well, my efforts here got me a good slap in the face. This is not a good place for me anymore and I came back to say goodbye. Take care, everyone.
gimmethesimplelife
1-9-21, 12:55pm
Well, my efforts here got me a good slap in the face. This is not a good place for me anymore and I came back to say goodbye. Take care, everyone.Very sorry to see you go. This board needs to do some soul searching - we are losing quality long term people. Rob
Very sorry to see you go. This board needs to do some soul searching - we are losing quality long term people. Rob
+1
When I got annoyed with too many posts that was my signal to take a break from the site.
I, alone, am responsible for my reactions, not a single other poster ever. This has been a very stressful emotional time for everyone with covid issues and especially on the Simple Policy forum. If it is aggravating you, avoid it; there are lots of other forums to participate.
Each and every one of you is unique and provide an interesting perspective. I am glad that you are participating. When I need a mental health break, I take it quietly and return when I am ready just as I do in real life. Would really like each to consider that option if necessary.
I, alone, am responsible for my reactions, not a single other poster ever. This has been a very stressful emotional time for everyone with covid issues and especially on the Simple Policy forum. If it is aggravating you, avoid it; there are lots of other forums to participate.
Yes, and.
I'd like to remind folks there are real breathing feeling people behind the user names. I've even met a few of you IRL. When you feel all nasty/angry/want to lash out, please pause and think about it. Some of us have thicker skins, and some don't.
early morning
1-9-21, 5:09pm
Great points, razz and herbgeek! I should post that on my screen!
Teacher Terry
1-9-21, 7:56pm
Geila, I hope you return soon.You will be missed.
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