View Full Version : Living in Vermont
I am really liking my new job and the thought of moving closer to where I work has crossed my mind. This would put me in a tristate area - Western Mass, southwestern NH or southeastern VT. I rule out New Hampshire because property taxes are very high since there is no income tax or sales tax. I would like to be able to retire in the home, and those taxes would be too high then especially. Income taxes do not bother me as much since when you earn less you pay less.
Currently I live in Massachusetts, but I am not that familiar with Vermont. For those of you who live there or have recently, what is the cost of living like? What about quality of life? Is the Brattleboro overrun by the opioid epidemic as I have read online? How good is infrastructure - gig speed internet (I have Fios now), city sewer, trash pickup, plowing, libraries? Do you feel you get a good bang for your property tax buck?
Are there special state programs to help retirees? For example in Massachusetts there is a circuit breaker (don't know why it is called that) income tax break for seniors and in some towns the option to do volunteer work for the town to offset some of your property taxes.
My coworkers all live in Mass so are not a source of information.
As much as I love Vermont, I did not move here because it's retirement-friendly--because it's not. In this article (https://www.retirementliving.com/best-and-worst-states-for-retirement-2020), it's #38 in terms of retirement friendly states to live in.
Brattleboro is probably the biggest southeastern town to live in. It is a hippie-paradise, but it's a nice town and pretty accessible to other Southern VT towns like Manchester and Bennington.
I am willing to suck up the retirement disadvantages because it is an absolutely beautiful state--no billboards, quaint towns, friendly people for the most part--in short, a great quality of life. I have only lived here for 3 years, but vacationed here for 20 and it tugs at my heartstrings, but you have to move here for love, not money.
Not a good rating, but Massachusetts is 44!
Not having luck in New Hampshire, I went to my first open house in Vermont. After driving a couple hours in part because I got lost I arrived and asked could I use the bathroom. Was told the house has no water but if it's an emergency the realtor will go to a nearby creek and get some water to flush with.
Not having luck in New Hampshire, I went to my first open house in Vermont. After driving a couple hours in part because I got lost I arrived and asked could I use the bathroom. Was told the house has no water but if it's an emergency the realtor will go to a nearby creek and get some water to flush with.
Sounds like Vermont!
Teacher Terry
1-2-23, 11:40pm
How is a house with no water for sale?
It's probably winterized, so the pipes won't burst. Any vacant house would be here as it would not be heated, usually.
It's probably winterized, so the pipes won't burst. Any vacant house would be here as it would not be heated, usually.
Good guess, but the water is broken. $6000 estimate to repair, $13,000 to replace, and the buyer must pick up the tab. This is still a seller's market. Caveat emptor.
iris lilies
1-3-23, 11:04am
As much as I love Vermont, I did not move here because it's retirement-friendly--because it's not. In this article (https://www.retirementliving.com/best-and-worst-states-for-retirement-2020), it's #38 in terms of retirement friendly states to live in.
Brattleboro is probably the biggest southeastern town to live in. It is a hippie-paradise, but it's a nice town and pretty accessible to other Southern VT towns like Manchester and Bennington.
I am willing to suck up the retirement disadvantages because it is an absolutely beautiful state--no billboards, quaint towns, friendly people for the most part--in short, a great quality of life. I have only lived here for 3 years, but vacationed here for 20 and it tugs at my heartstrings, but you have to move here for love, not money.
And I just saw one of those Clickbait articles that had Vermont pretty high up for retirees, so I wouldn’t take any rating too seriously.
iris lilies
1-3-23, 11:06am
Good guess, but the water is broken. $6000 estimate to repair, $13,000 to replace, and the buyer must pick up the tab. This is still a seller's market. Caveat emptor.
Would a mortgage lender even lend on a house like that with that kind of situation?
Teacher Terry
1-3-23, 11:09am
I wouldn’t think so IL.
And I just saw one of those Clickbait articles that had Vermont pretty high up for retirees, so I wouldn’t take any rating too seriously.
Yeah, you're right--a quick search put Motley Fool's ranking for Vermont at #2 for best states to retire to based on what people want.
https://www.fool.com/research/best-states-to-retire/
And Maine was #1, and New Hampshire was #3, so let's here it for New England!
iris lilies
1-3-23, 1:06pm
Yeah, you're right--a quick search put Motley Fool's ranking for Vermont at #2 for best states to retire to based on what people want.
https://www.fool.com/research/best-states-to-retire/
And Maine was #1, and New Hampshire was #3, so let's here it for New England!
I love New England but would have to leave for the dead of winter weeks.
iris lilies
1-3-23, 1:09pm
Would a mortgage lender even lend on a house like that with that kind of situation?
Still, I have to say that our buyers for our city house got a hefty mortgage on that house with a sewer that had been inspected as “collapsed” But it worked fine for us, we had no idea. Anyway – we closed on that deal with the sewer in the “collapsed “state, so the mortgage company didn’t find that to be a impediment.
I have friends who moved from Colorado to south central Vermont several years ago where the fellow was raised. The cold and snow seems to wear on them a bit, even compared to our dry snowy cold here in Colorado. They have talked about spending parts of the winter in a warmer place or places when they retire. People have different tolerances for seasonal weathers. I can't imagine living in the hot humid mid-west where the sun doesn't shine much in winter. Or a place like San Diego where they don't seem to have real seasons.
Teacher Terry
1-3-23, 1:21pm
My friends that have always lived in Wisconsin are used to it. The last Xmas I went there was in 2008 and if it wasn’t freezing it was snowing. Now I only go between may-October.
iris lilies
1-3-23, 4:24pm
I have friends who moved from Colorado to south central Vermont several years ago where the fellow was raised. The cold and snow seems to wear on them a bit, even compared to our dry snowy cold here in Colorado. They have talked about spending parts of the winter in a warmer place or places when they retire. People have different tolerances for seasonal weathers. I can't imagine living in the hot humid mid-west where the sun doesn't shine much in winter. Or a place like San Diego where they don't seem to have real seasons.
You are wrong, in the Midwest in the winter we have plenty of sunshine. It is a bright sunny day today for instance and that’s not unusual.
But hot ‘n humid…yep!
Actually, as I think about it, the weather here is absolutely miserable so we want everyone to stay away, dont even think of moving here. Especially those from California.
You are wrong, in the Midwest in the winter we have plenty of sunshine. It is a bright sunny day today for instance and that’s not unusual.
But hot ‘n humid…yep!
Actually, as I think about it, the weather here is absolutely miserable so we want everyone to stay away, dont even think of moving here. Especially those from California.
I guess my only knowledge comes from a few mid-westerners who moved here. But I agree. It seems like a lot of young people want to move here for the climate and recreation and let me tell you, it is miserable here, too : -)
I think I could deal with the climate in the PNW, in spite of the rain.
I guess my only knowledge comes from a few mid-westerners who moved here. But I agree. It seems like a lot of young people want to move here for the climate and recreation and let me tell you, it is miserable here, too : -)
I think I could deal with the climate in the PNW, in spite of the rain.
I've read there are places that are rainier than here, but people are often put off by the "gloomy" overcast skies. Whatever. :)
It's blue skies and sunshine at the moment; we did have light rain earlier.
I've read there are places that are rainier than here, but people are often put off by the "gloomy" overcast skies. Whatever. :)
It's blue skies and sunshine at the moment; we did have light rain earlier.
Rain sounds quite refreshing. Rain most of the time sounds good as it always seems dry here and there are long periods of cloudless days in the summer. Some folks like it that way. I actually consider myself lucky to be where I am, but there are other nice places, too.
Winter in New England is a great time to catch up on reading, declutter, make pottery, etc.
iris lilies
1-4-23, 10:01am
Winter in New England is a great time to catch up on reading, declutter, make pottery, etc.
Here, too, we can do it tho without feets of snow and months of freezing weather. Our gardens start to perk up in March. I think it us longer for you guys.
Although I will say I spent a few hours over the past two days cleaning up iris beds.
Winters here in central Maine in the White Mountains are definitely milder than in Traverse City in Michigan. There is not so much snow, the temps are warmer, and there is more sunshine.
But the power companies there were infinitely better. We had no power 5 out of 7 days before Christmas. Some people did not get power back until after Christmas.
They do not seem to trim the damn trees around the power lines. Everywhere you look, there are trees growing through the lines. IN Michigan and South Carolina they were on it--I don't understand this place.
Yppej, both Maine and NH are more laissez faire than Mass or Vermont. I cannot see you happy in Vermont with the politics there. It's a whole lot more like Massachusetts, or even moreso.
New Hampshire and Maine seem a better fit.
And I love Brattleboro and would move there if I could, or preferably Bennington.
littlebittybobby
1-4-23, 4:14pm
You are wrong, in the Midwest in the winter we have plenty of sunshine. It is a bright sunny day today for instance and that’s not unusual.
But hot ‘n humid…yep!
Actually, as I think about it, the weather here is absolutely miserable so we want everyone to stay away, dont even think of moving here. Especially those from California.Okay----alla that is true. The sun is blinding on cold winter days. Also, they execute people who deviate from the norms, on a regular basis. The present Gov'ner was a country sheriff, from a small town that has a Baptist College. Yup. So yeah---it's no place for a blue-stater. Nope.
littlebittybobby
1-4-23, 4:20pm
Winter in New England is a great time to catch up on reading, declutter, make pottery, etc. Winter in Zurra is a great time to get out there and set fence posts, cut down dead trees, pull parts at the wreckin' yard. Yup.
Winters here in central Maine in the White Mountains are definitely milder than in Traverse City in Michigan. There is not so much snow, the temps are warmer, and there is more sunshine.
But the power companies there were infinitely better. We had no power 5 out of 7 days before Christmas. Some people did not get power back until after Christmas.
They do not seem to trim the damn trees around the power lines. Everywhere you look, there are trees growing through the lines. IN Michigan and South Carolina they were on it--I don't understand this place.
Yppej, both Maine and NH are more laissez faire than Mass or Vermont. I cannot see you happy in Vermont with the politics there. It's a whole lot more like Massachusetts, or even moreso.
New Hampshire and Maine seem a better fit.
And I love Brattleboro and would move there if I could, or preferably Bennington.
Vermont is more libertarian than Massachusetts. There was no state mask mandate for schools - each could decide on their own when the statewide mandated ended and one district in the northeast kingdom never put one in. There are fewer building codes and regulations, nudity is accepted at swimming holes, etc, not that I want to go streaking.
Here is another house in Vermont with no running water, for those who doubted me last time that such a property could not be sold. Water source: Spring.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/129-West-St_Dummerston_VT_05301_M41621-58201
If there is no running water, why do they have a dishwasher and a washing machine?
If there is no running water, why do they have a dishwasher and a washing machine?
It's most likely a spring-fed well system, so I would assume that it is technically running water. Cute house! Rt. 30 is a very pleasant road, but a little more. heavily trafficked than typical small roads in VT. Concerns me that there are no pictures of the interior. At that price it's probably a fixer upper.
What would the drive to work be like? How far, and what are the roads like?
I cannot imagine what the inside looks like, but it obviously has running water...bathrooms, laundry room etc. Our water is well water, but it is piped right into the house! So I suspect the spring water is the same, in fact, I think ours would be considered spring fed.
We looked at a spring fed house in Maine. It was different from a well as it had no dug or drilled well. The water was piped directly from the running spring. So your only concerns would be would it dry up in summer, would it freeze up in winter, and would it get polluted. Generally the spring water is very nice--at my parents, they had both a well and spring water hooked up to the house, and the whole town would drive to another spring with jugs to get drinking water, it was so good.
What would the drive to work be like? How far, and what are the roads like?
The commute would be better than what I have now, but I also don't like that there are no interior photos.
early morning
2-7-23, 4:44pm
but there are interior photos if you click on the virtual tour.
but there are interior photos if you click on the virtual tour.
They weren't up this morning--I swear! :).
The inside doesn't look bad! Nice hardwood floors. It's all painted nicely.
New Hampshire is just so expensive I am thinking about Vermont again. Except around a few ski areas and major cities average home values per Zillow are all lower than in NH or most of MA. Forbes recently ranked VT as the #1 state for in-migration.
Some concerns I have are while the housing is more affordable the shopping won’t be. They don’t have any Market Baskets, and maybe no Walmarts either?
Yppej, Marketbasket is so much cheaper; it's wonderful.
catherine
12-19-23, 12:34pm
New Hampshire is just so expensive I am thinking about Vermont again. Except around a few ski areas and major cities average home values per Zillow are all lower than in NH or most of MA. Forbes recently ranked VT as the #1 state for in-migration.
Some concerns I have are while the housing is more affordable the shopping won’t be. They don’t have any Market Baskets, and maybe no Walmarts either?
I never heard of Market Basket! We do have two Walmarts near me--one in Williston and one in St. Albans. Rutland has one, and Bennington, but I think that's it.. for the state. Do you need to live in the southeast, to be closer to work?? Would you actually commute?
If you have any questions about Vermont, I'm happy to answer.
ETA: Walmart locations also include Berlin and Newport.
iris lilies
12-19-23, 2:06pm
New Hampshire is just so expensive I am thinking about Vermont again. Except around a few ski areas and major cities average home values per Zillow are all lower than in NH or most of MA. Forbes recently ranked VT as the #1 state for in-migration.
Some concerns I have are while the housing is more affordable the shopping won’t be. They don’t have any Market Baskets, and maybe no Walmarts either?
Jeppy, Have you looked at prices in northern New Hampshire? They’re quite a bit cheaper than southern but I’m sure you know that.
I’m not sure if you are looking for a move right now while you’re still working or?
northern NH is where my two friends settled. One of them originally settled in southern New Hampshire, but he wasn’t getting along with his sister was also retired, so he needed to be able to afford a house on his own and that’s why he went up north.
Home prices are cheaper in northern NH, but property taxes are still high compared to where I am now. I am researching areas both within commuting distance and further away for when I retire.
In Vermont Cavendish, Chester, Vernon, Weathersfield, Westminster and Windsor look like possibilities. Any input on them Catherine? All have average home prices equal or less than where I am now, do not fluoridate their water, and are within 40 minutes of a Market Basket.
Remembering I already checked out Vernon and their pathetic library turned me off.
catherine
12-19-23, 7:51pm
Home prices are cheaper in northern NH, but property taxes are still high compared to where I am now. I am researching areas both within commuting distance and further away for when I retire.
In Vermont Cavendish, Chester, Vernon, Weathersfield, Westminster and Windsor look like possibilities. Any input on them Catherine? All have average home prices equal or less than where I am now, do not fluoridate their water, and are within 40 minutes of a Market Basket.
The one I know the most about is Chester which is an utterly charming town. I had my 70th birthday there--we rented an airBnB.
ETA: here's a list of the cutest towns in Vermont and Chester is actually #2. And they have an awesome Scottish restaurant.
https://www.touropia.com/small-towns-in-vermont/
Thank you. I am going to make a day trip to check out Chester, Weathersfield and Windsor and see what their libraries are like among other things.
I found this on the Windsor library adult programming--looks great!
Adult Programming | Windsor Public Library (windsorlibrary.org) (https://windsorlibrary.org/adultprograms)
Yes Tybee, those do look interesting.
catherine
12-20-23, 12:58pm
Yes Tybee, those do look interesting.
Not to continue to push Chester, but I'd go to their library just for an excuse to go to that beautiful building!
https://vermontjournal.com/arts-entertainment/national-library-lovers-month/
rosarugosa
12-21-23, 6:59am
What a lovely library!
I decided to check on their covid policies before making my trip. Chester never had a municipal mask mandate, the other two did.
My route took me up 91 to 5 to 103. Despite being a state road 103 had some deep potholes. I was glad I was driving in daylight hours and could avoid them.
Parts of Chester were nice but others were run down with boarded up windows, loose boards coming off buildings leaning sideways, Tyvek showing, signs of rural poverty. There were lots of artsy crafts and other small businesses, but I didn’t see any major employers.
Could not find the library despite two tries. I could have asked someone but by then I had already decided I didn’t like the town. I was worried about steep mountain roads, not an issue. But to avoid the mountains houses were all crammed in pretty close proximity to each other in the valley. All the water from recent heavy rains came into the valley and there was standing water in many places. I think basement flooding would be an issue.
I had come up through Mass but went back through NH and as soon as I crossed the state line it was nicer - houses were spaced further apart, roads were better, better mix of businesses. If only it weren’t so expensive.
Also looked at a town in Mass today that looks ok. Library is crap but we have a regional library system so that is not an issue. I have three MA towns in my list that never put in municipal mask mandates. All are small - current state of affairs in our country is rural places are freer than urban places.
Heard on the news mortgage rates have started to fall - fingers crossed for 2024.
catherine
12-26-23, 10:41pm
Sorry you didn't like Chester... good luck on future searches. It's good that you are driving around to get a feel for the various areas.
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