View Full Version : This is NOT a question for those on the right
iris lilies
1-8-21, 6:05pm
Questions are being posed in several threads inquiring about reasons and attitudes of those on the political right of the spectrum. The questions are mostly about Trump support but also are about right and far right attitudes.
It occurred to me the last couple days that it is bad form and considered a mild version of racism to inquire of Black people about their experience and an overview of black history and thought. This questioning puts a burden on black people for educating (probably) sincere folks. These inquiries also seem to assume one monolithic black experience which is pretty demeaning.
No, I am not trying to draw an exact analogy between the experience of black Americans and this forum, but there is a bit of similarity, I think.
My white privilege allows me these unwholesome thoughts. Probably I need to be sent to a re-education camp to even draw this analogy.:):)
What is the point of this post other than to mock someone with a genuine question? I'm assuming here you are making fun of others on the left trying to understand the right. YOu are doing no such thing in this post.
And I say that as someone who used to say they were right of center. Now of course the right has gone so far right, that I'm now considered a liberal.
iris lilies
1-8-21, 6:30pm
I kept this thought OUT of those other threads for the purpose of not introducing a thought that might be unpleasant. Give me some credit, ‘kay?
The same questions being asked over and over here make me wonder about the genuine nature of these questions. Sorry if that naïveté just seems...off ....to me. And as always, the questioning arena serves as a trap for those who answer even if the trap isnt sprung.
There is a lot of good political commentary out there on the internet. We have the world of thought at our fingertips. It is easy read reasonable sources that show why Trump supporters might support Trump in some, many, or most ways.
Personally, I think the most effective way to find out one person’s political thought, if that is the goal, is to raise an issue or two that you know is important in the political right and ask that person what he thinks. That conversation needs to take place over private message. The open nature of forums almost seems to require Anti-trumping rhetoric to be proudly displayed.
In closing, I think my analogy has some merit. You dont have to.
I think that conversation needs to take place over private message.
I agree that the best conversations are in person where you can hear and see a person and see the nuances that written mediums don't provide. I also think Geila was asking a genuine question and the way you titled this thread and started it seems like you are making fun of her. We've lost a number of interesting posters over the years, most recently Tammy. I really hate losing fun posters, and an number of folks (who coincidentally have all self identified as being on the right) have driven them off with condescension, derision and bordering on bullying (ie things you accuse the left of doing). Please consider that your words have power and force.
I guess my political beliefs are more diverse, by subject, than a simple left/right label would account for.
Both "sides" seem to think I belong to the other side, so perhaps I'm doing something correct.
IL - you sure know how to throw a punch. It hurt enough to make me cry. And since I don't understand why you felt I deserved it, obviously I'm just too stupid to be here.
herbgeek - thank you.
iris lilies
1-8-21, 7:01pm
Tammy left because she considers others here racist, and she does not wish to hang out with same.She gets to make
that determination.
I have fatigue of questioners, but you are right! That is my problem, not theirs.
It hurt enough to make me cry.
Happy now IL?
iris lilies
1-8-21, 7:06pm
IL - you sure know how to throw a punch. It hurt enough to make me cry. And since I don't understand why you felt I deserved it, obviously I'm just too stupid to be here.
L
herbgeek - thank you.
Geila, so sorry. I hope you find thoughtful political commentary that enlightens you to reasonable attitudes of those on the right. It is out there on the internet.
National Review is one place to start.
iris lilies
1-8-21, 7:07pm
Happy now IL?
Not my intent.
What is the point of this post other than to mock someone with a genuine question? I'm assuming here you are making fun of others on the left trying to understand the right. YOu are doing no such thing in this post.
And I say that as someone who used to say they were right of center. Now of course the right has gone so far right, that I'm now considered a liberal.
Thread hijack alert: This is interesting to me Herbgeek, because I used to define myself as "socially liberal and fiscally conservative." I'm Independent or Unenrolled as they now call us in MA, but my votes used to tend towards Republican. At some point, I think it was during the Obama administration, I really shifted and now my votes lean very strongly Democratic (the major exception being that I often like our MA Republican governors). So I thought it was me who changed, but maybe they've moved the goalposts or something (is that a relevant metaphor?) You've given me some food for thought.
IL: I've always had trouble understanding that viewpoint about how it is "bad" to ask black friends to help us understand their experiences (although agree it isn't their job to teach us history, of course we need to do some work ourselves). I think real learning comes from hearing perspectives of people with different backgrounds and viewpoints. I keep hearing about people being in right wing "echo chambers," and I don't want to live in an echo chamber.
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-21, 7:26pm
Happy now IL?Upvoted because given my rep as out there around here, I'm glad that someone other than myself posted this. Thank You - much respect, herbgeek. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-21, 7:29pm
IL - you sure know how to throw a punch. It hurt enough to make me cry. And since I don't understand why you felt I deserved it, obviously I'm just too stupid to be here.
herbgeek - thank you.No. You are an upstanding member of this community and I appreciate your presence here. Rob
I have seen advertisements for events and recently virtual events on diversity, and maybe raising questions in forums like that are designed to educate, or where they ask, "Does anyone have any questions?" is a good venue to ask other people about their experiences.
I used to define myself as "socially liberal and fiscally conservative." I'm Independent or Unenrolled as they now call us in MA, but my votes used to tend towards Republican.
Me too. I have almost always voted Republican or Libertarian (until 2020) I don't think I ever voted for a Democrat president until 2020 (but down ballot races, yes).
I feel all people (meaning people just living their lives) are deserving of respect and benefit of the doubt until they do something that makes me think otherwise. This seems to be a leftie viewpoint these days. Treating people with kindness until they no longer deserve it by actions or words is another one that now reads "leftie/socialist/marxist/communist/insert your own epithet here".
iris lilies
1-8-21, 9:25pm
I have seen advertisements for events and recently virtual events on diversity, and maybe raising questions in forums like that are designed to educate, or where they ask, "Does anyone have any questions?" is a good venue to ask other people about their experiences.
Sure, forums with the purpose of educating about racism certainly would encourage questions, it is an educational environment. That’s their purpose, agreed.
But a different space, one of many Reddit boards for instance, will castigate you for your microaggression if you ask the wrong person about racism and getting educated.
My brief google got these hits, with the first article from thenWashington Post (need subscription to read, but the front page and photos gives you the idea.)
3567
3568
iris lilies
1-8-21, 9:31pm
And now, I will put myself in forum jail for 4 weeks. This is just for the Simple Public Policy forum, no others.
This isn't a flounce it is jail time, self imposed. Similar to how Mark Zuckerberg treats his ideological enemies, I am slapping my own hands.
see ya all in 4 weeks!
But if you educate yourself, you're not a proper teacher because only a person of color can understand the experience of a person of color. It's a catch 22.
It reminds me of when I moved to South Florida and was trying to get a job. I spoke Spanish pretty well at the time and would apply for jobs that I was qualified for and they would have to interview me per their HR Department but would try to scare me away. They would say, "The interview will be conducted in Spanish." I would say, "That's fine" and come in and they would see I was qualified but say at the end, "We want someone who's not just bilingual but bicultural."
Another time I was asked how could I relate to immigrant students from Haiti and I truthfully answered, "Fine. I'm married to a Haitian" but that wasn't satisfactory enough. The interviewer (who was white herself) moved in closer and closer until her face was a half inch from my face trying to intimidate me. Later I returned to Massachusetts and got a job as an ESL teacher where I did just fine thank you.
And the culmination of this identity politics is Joe Biden with a quota for this and a quota for that. I didn't vote for Trump and I'm not a right winger, but for all those wanting to know why people do (endlessly wanting to know, I remember answering before citing Second Amendment and abortion as some key issues) here's another clue.
OK, folks. There are no absolutes in anything human. It is all shades of grey. I have read several articles where a Black voice is tired of being expected to be able to fully explain, answer and educate a white questioner. The questions all start with: "Help me understand what it is like to be Black" or "Help me understand what it is like to be an immigrant" or "Help me understand what it is like to be a teenager"or Help me understand what it is like to be a woman" and so on.
In similar fashion, I doubt that I or anyone else could explain my political views to everyone that has questions. Why should I be expected to do so? Do I even know why I make the choices that I do in each circumstance? Respect my right to make my decisions as I will yours.
Society has the right to set certain universal expectations of lawfulness, etc., with the hope that the expectations will be accepted and complied with for the good of all; like traffic laws.
Human beings are very unique complex creatures with different reasons for making decisions with many variables each time.
We are all human beings with a whole lot more in common than different. Why can't we just work with that?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.