Using the stuff you have saved

[Tybee]

So over the years, I have bought things and saved them for later to use. This includes two sets of silverware that I really like, a collected set of Dansk Fjord with the wood handles, and a Jensen set that I bought because I have admired Jensen over the years and I treated myself.

I have not incorporated these as everyday silverware because my husband cooks all the time, and my husband abuses my cookware. He will grab whatever is near and use it and mess it up. So I have been afraid to use my nice silverware as everyday because he will inevitably do something like stir a pot of chocolate sauce with it, or spoon out dog food for the dog, or leave it dirty for me on the counter.

If he took good care of my things, I would not mind. But he doesn't , and when I tell him not to use my things, he gets angry and hurt. But he takes good care of his things--just not my things. So it's really a s***** character trait and disrepectful--if it's mine, he can ruin it. If it's a Kobenstyle pot, he can leave it all dirty and stained and not care.

I buy them as usable art and I hate that he disrespects that.

So the stuff sits neatly taking up space and not getting used. And I'm angry, because we need a second set of everything that he can destroy. It is like living with a toddler, and I'm fed up.

I am noticing this because I am unpacking boxes, and I want to lighten the load, but I don't want to sell my treasured things, I want to use them.

I fantasize about living on my own sometimes.

[razz]

This is really about other issues not silverware. With the kindest intention, you are going to spend a lot of time with this individual, I would try and find a counselling session to address them. This is not about a failure in a marriage but about building/restoring a good foundation with all the changes in your lives. I wish DH and I had done so earlier. The first effort I made to do this ended poorly as the counsellor was not the right one for marriage issues. She followed an obvious plot line and made decisions which, to me, violated her role and responsibility. DH thought she was a fool that could be manipulated easily so no confidence from either of us. Marriage counselling is very different as you know, I am sure.

What I found is that I had to get myself at peace and self-governed by researching books about love languages, power and control. First, I needed to see this dear wonderful very intelligent man as the good, kind thoughtful person that he really was and focus on that rather than the aggravations. I tried to walk in his shoes and see his view of things. That helped more than anything else. People do reflect your mental view of them. I didn't own the problems in the marriage but I did own my thinking and reactions. It is worth the investment to try.

[Tybee]

This is really about other issues not silverware. With the kindest intention, you are going to spend a lot of time with this individual, I would try and find a counselling session to address them. This is not about a failure in a marriage but about building/restoring a good foundation with all the changes in your lives. I wish DH and I had done so earlier. The first effort I made to do this ended poorly as the counsellor was not the right one for marriage issues. She followed an obvious plot line and made decisions which, to me, violated her role and responsibility. DH thought she was a fool that could be manipulated easily so no confidence from either of us. Marriage counselling is very different as you know, I am sure.

What I found is that I had to get myself at peace and self-governed by researching books about love languages, power and control. First, I needed to see this dear wonderful very intelligent man as the good, kind thoughtful person that he really was and focus on that rather than the aggravations. I tried to walk in his shoes and see his view of things. That helped more than anything else. People do reflect your mental view of them. I didn't own the problems in the marriage but I did own my thinking and reactions. It is worth the investment to try.

Thanks, this is very good advice. We are having a very difficult time now and are in the midst of it with way too much family drama wrecking our peace. I'd like to take back our own lives.

I did buy a bamboo silverware organizer for the Dansk, though, and at least now it is out in my sideboard, usable, and not in a box...

[Teacher Terry]

I was on city data reading what wives had to say about their husbands in their older years. Many descriptions included much more angry outbursts, road rage and in general just much harder to live with. These were men that previously had been easy going. I guess it’s a myth that men turn more mellow. When my husband would go see his son for 2 weeks at first I would like it and then would miss him. It will be interesting to see how it feels when on my own. I will report back:)).

I know that the downside is having someone to spontaneously go out with but I have went out to movies and lunch by myself. Also I will have lost my vacation partner but really only wanted to go back to Europe once more and my kids will go with me. I intend to keep cruising alone. I have dragged husbands to therapy numerous times but never has lasting change occurred. Sorry you are having difficulties. I am very excited about living alone and not one bit sad. It’s probably why most older women don’t remarry after their husbands die.

[pinkytoe]

I fantasize about living on my own sometimes.
I think the 24-7 life of Covid isolation has exposed those of us with partners to each other's warts in all their facets. DH's personality has changed over the past year and he has become a real challenge to be around. Too much internet and looking for his tribe. I know I am equally vexing to him:) Luckily, we are pretty respectful of each other's possessions and don't have family drama except for his mother who demands multiple phone calls at the exact same time every week or she comes unglued. I was always a bit envious of two older women I knew in the recent past. One a long-time widow and another, a divorcee. Neither remarried and they seemed very content with their solo lives. Travel, get togethers with friends, interesting careers, etc. There is an article in our local paper about three retired women here who sold all their possessions, bought an RV and have spent their days traveling and exploring. Has me dreaming anyway of other lives.

[Teacher Terry]

Pinky toe, you are right that this virus has definitely made everything harder. People are spending so much time together without having relief. Plus not seeing friends has added to the misery.

[SteveinMN]

In our kitchen, there are two towels; one for drying hands and mopping counters and another reserved for drying utensils and cutting boards and the like (stuff that touches food). So I use the "clean" towel for drying the "good" knives (they happen to be mine from before marriage fwiw). Sometimes the towel snags on the edge of a knife (or something else) and the towel gets a little hole. C'est la vie. What I didn't know was that DW liked to put the fancy towels in that spot.

So, from her perspective, the good towels were slowly being destroyed. From my perspective, the towel is there; I'm going to use it (I own very little "shelf royalty"; if I have it, it's gonna get used, not just stared at and I'm okay with the "patina" that creates). Once we communicated about that, things were fine. If I have to dry a knife, I either will be much more careful with her good towel or I will find another way to dry it. And DW understands that, while I take care of all our stuff, I'm not much on pure decoration and I'm okay if it doesn't look perfect after a while. For us, it was all about assumptions and communication.

[iris lilies]

In my condo I will be using my “fine China “and sterling silverware for every day. I don’t anticipate that DH will harm it. It will all have to be hand washed tho. I am ok with that because we hand wash dishes at Hermann all the time and it’s just not a big deal.

[iris lilies]

This discussion just drives home the fact that DH and I have the perfect situation. We have two houses that are habitable and a third one coming along. Having a country house and a city house where we are not joined at the hip, and where we pend time independently has been good for our marriage.

Just yesterday I had a Zoom meeting with flower show ladies and they were lamenting, like you all, the restrictions of Covid.I said I really don’t mind Covid lockdown, I find this life to be peaceful and enjoyable without having to run around everywhere.

[GeorgeParker]

If he took good care of my things, I would not mind. But he doesn't , and when I tell him not to use my things, he gets angry and hurt. But he takes good care of his things--just not my things....I buy them as usable art and I hate that he disrespects that.

Men are from Mars, etc...

Speaking from my own male perspective, I see pots, pans, plates, silverware, and similar objects as utilitarian tools that are intended to be used on a daily basis, not revered as art objects or handled with kid gloves. Chances are your DH is the same way. If the way he uses something wouldn't damage an industrial version of that object, you wanting him to treat it with reverence like a work of art will baffle him.

Also, you say he "takes good care of his things" but consider for a moment whether you're talking about the same kind of things. Are you thinking about the way he treats his cooking utensils vs yours? Or the way he treats his hobby equipment vs the way he treats all cooking utensils? If it's his pots vs your pots, you have a problem. But if it's his whatever vs all cooking utensils, that's just the attitude he has toward cooking utensils, not his stuff vs your stuff.

Also using something and leaving it dirty for someone else to clean is inconsiderate, but is it really damaging the object, or just being an inconsiderate slob?

What I'm getting at, is that it pays to look at these situations more thoughtfully and define exactly what it is that you're objecting to and why, and then to use that knowledge to negotiate with the other person about setting some basic ground rules as to which items can be used under what circumstances and which can't.

If you're not able to do that, you and DH are probably arguing about power, dominance, and cooperation. You just think you're arguing about cookware.

But all of the above is from my own male perspective, without actually knowing either of you, so YMMV.

[Teacher Terry]

If I had 3 homes while married he would have messed them all up and I would have been cleaning all of them. I am guessing that your husband is not a slob. I am going to use my polish pottery good dishes for everyday when I move.

[catherine]

Regarding silverware: I decided when we moved up here to use my great-aunt's silver. Along with that decision came the realization that over time pieces may get ruined, or thrown out by mistake. But that was better than just never ever using them at this point.

In our household our somewhat similar situation is DH is extremely protective of our Henckle knives. There are two that he won't let me use (not sure why). OTOH, he's hard on stuff--early in our marriage he actually carved a steak on the sterling silver tray my uncle gave us for our wedding--leaving huge scratches.

I'm trying to mellow out on my reaction to things. I keep a mental image in my head of a Buddha with a smile that I try to emulate. I'm trying not to engage in battles that aren't worth the fight.

OTOH, I have to say, Buddha was absent yesterday. I was away for the weekend with my daughter and when I walked in the house on my return the place reeked of cigar smoke (he knows full well that I completely can't stand the thought of smoking in our house), so I had to muster all my strength to not greet him with a fight. So I can understand your frustration, and I do like the suggestions of others that getting underneath some of those issues might be helpful

[Tybee]

If I had 3 homes while married he would have messed them all up and I would have been cleaning all of them. I am guessing that your husband is not a slob. I am going to use my polish pottery good dishes for everyday when I move.

Actually, looking back to when we were dating, he is a slob. He has kind of slobbed up every space we have shared, although he keeps his workshop very orderly. Crowded, borderline hoarded, but orderly.

His car is slobby.

In the kitchen, the house, very much a slob and I have always picked up after him.

And someone who uses my cooking pots and does not return them to cleanliness will be told not to use them again. It has nothing to do with utilitarian--it is extremely disrespectful and entitled, to expect someone else to clean up your mess. Doesn't matter what sex you are. And to make something that the owner purchased for its beauty unbeautiful--not okay.

So he has his own pots and pans now, and they are easy to clean, so that works well. But then we have too many pots and pans, because he can't or won't take care of the beautiful ones.

And he is a super cook, so he appreciates things like my copper pots and pans (packed away for years now, until "later." ) Because in addition to being beautiful, they cook better.

For Christmas I bought him his own cast iron dutch oven, and he can do with it whatever he wants.

[sweetana3]

Just today I had to clean out the hall closet for some floor repair. Actually found 5 pair of what look like new athletic shoes for me. This does not count the two pair I use and the one pair in a box in the basement. Looks like as my hubby bought them, I tossed them in the closet and promptly forgot about them. Next i have to put on socks and try them out to see if they fit well. Argggg.

[Simplemind]

Back in the 80's my then DH and I worked in retail and he was a housewares buyer for a very nice department store. Needless to say we bought the 80's must haves and then some. We got fabulous discounts on it all. My mom pretty much bought the same stuff so if we were having big holiday dinners we could pool our dishes, crystal and silver. I kept it all in the divorce and have since inherited much of my mom's. I have more premium copper cookware than you can shake a stick at. That stuff isn't widely sold as it used to be and it is waaaaaaay more expensive now. However, it will withstand a nuclear blast and it will last generations. My DS has already called dibs. I have two sets of china one is a holiday pattern that I love and we do use that every day Thanksgiving through New Years. The other set I pull out for any other special occasion through the year. The silver (Wallace Grande Baroque with solid handles) we use at all special occasions because it is a shout out to my folks who gave it to us as a wedding gift and then I inherited theirs. I have talked to DS about all of it and he won't be interested (except for those pans) and I gave my God bless that he sell it. If I hadn't been gifted with it I never would have chosen it. Too fussy for me but my folks loved it. We also drink out of the Waterford on special occasions. Nyquil tastes so much better out of a crystal cordial glass than a little plastic cup.
Current DH is the master of the kitchen. I have to pinch myself. Pre-Covid he did all the shopping and almost all of the cooking. He generally did most of the dishes as well. He is much more thorough than I am in that area of the house. He will wash and dry by hand. I will try to be careful with the dishwasher and brave the sideways glances and admonishments that wooden handled steak knives don't belong in there and neither does the silverware. He hates those copper pans! :laff:

[iris lilies]

Copper pans are very attractive to me right now. Two of you have mentioned them. Do you keep them copper colored shiney? Tell me about cooking with them.

[NewGig]

Hm. We both cook. We had, for years, dinerware, because it just didn't break. That got too heavy and I was looking for enamelware to replace it with. in the process, we started using the "extra," more fragile, stoneware. That's where we are now. If I find enamelware we both love, the remaining stoneware will probably either go into the attic or to antique store or a thrift shop. The good stuff stays put away, elsewhere, out of the kitchen. i will probably sell it. The Dansk and other fancy cooking things we have, we usually chose together, although most of it was bought used. If they get chipped, they do. If the stoneware gets chipped, it does. The fancy German china isn't in the kitchen at all, the reason I'm probably going to get rid of it.

I'm the daughter of an engineer, who raised me. My attitude about fancy china and such is much closer to a man's traditional view than not. It's a tool, use it. If it gets damaged, it does.

But yes, we do take care of the few good things in the kitchen. There's not many. DH does take care of his tools, moderately well. I do the same. Neither of us fuss much.

The enforced togetherness is starting to get to us too, but I think a lot of it is that the weather is bad (there's snow on ice in our yard), my car has developed a problem (an exhaust leak), and our fridge seems to be dying or dead. So the weather is getting to me. I hate the noisy car, although I have an appt. to get it fixed. And the last time we bought a fridge, it became a battle with Kitchen Aid that lasted 6 months, until they gave us a new fridge, the one we now have. To say that I don't want to go fridge hunting is an understatement.

[Simplemind]

IL they conduct heat like nobody's business. Whenever we watch something like Downton Abby or any period European show with a shot of a kitchen in it DH will remark... "There are those damn pans!". My mom used to hang hers over the long counter in the kitchen. She kept hers polished. Mind you she also had brass sinks so she was a polishing fool....... Me, I only polish them when I'm cooking for company and they are going to look at them. Tarnish doesn't change how they cook.
Mine are Cop*R*Chef (not to be confused with those vile Copper Chef pans) from All Clad. They have hefty brass handles. I have a few pieces of Revere Ware copper but their handles are thin and not as nice to grip. Our early Cop*R*Chef pans have copper and brass lids and later pans ( and those from other companies ) have stainless or glass lids. You can pick them up on Etsy or Ebay, not cheap but you will never need another.
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[iris lilies]

IL they conduct heat like nobody's business. Whenever we watch something like Downton Abby or any period European show with a shot of a kitchen in it DH will remark... "There are those damn pans!". My mom used to hang hers over the long counter in the kitchen. She kept hers polished. Mind you she also had brass sinks so she was a polishing fool....... Me, I only polish them when I'm cooking for company and they are going to look at them. Tarnish doesn't change how they cook.
Mine are Cop*R*Chef (not to be confused with those vile Copper Chef pans) from All Clad. They have hefty brass handles. I have a few pieces of Revere Ware copper but their handles are thin and not as nice to grip. Our early Cop*R*Chef pans have copper and brass lids and later pans ( and those from other companies ) have stainless or glass lids. You can pick them up on Etsy or Ebay, not cheap but you will never need another.
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They are beautiful!

DH just “spoke” to me about spending too much money lately, so
i erased all of the items on my ebay watchlist to get my head out of the game of spending. But i will now sneak over ebay and look at some of these pans but will NOT put them on Watch.

[rosarugosa]

I try not to have things that are too good to use, but I'll confess to a couple of beautiful French jacquard dishtowels. DH is tougher on things than I am, but he also does all of the cooking, so we joke about how everything would be more pristine if it was up to me, but we also might starve to death. Loretta Laroche talks about clothing we save "for good" and how we won't get much enjoyment from it if we don't get to wear it until our funerals. This really struck a chord and I do try to live accordingly, although not 100% successful. I try not to get too emotionally invested in items made from glass. I love beautiful glassware, but there's also an infinite supply at the thrift shops, so if something breaks that makes room for something else. Some items do have special sentimental value, so I try to take special care with those. We don't have a dishwasher, so everything gets washed by hand. We're probably close to 50/50 with dishwashing duty. DH is more likely to break something, but I would rather live with that than do the dishes 100% of the time.
This is also a very small house and DH is a fairly large man. I am a very small person so I fit in the house better than he does, if that makes sense. He is more likely to bang into something just by reaching out and stretching.
We did very well with the "forced" closeness of the pandemic. The 6 months DH took off from work was rather wonderful.

[Tybee]

I discovered that I have four sets of champagne glasses (small sets, 4-5 glasses per set), and I like them all, so I have dedicated the cabinet above the refrigerator and when I have a glass of wine, I use one of the glasses now. And yes, I already broke one--and I never break glasses!

[Teacher Terry]

I definitely am now in the camp of use the good stuff even if it gets broke. When Erma Bombeck was dying I saw her on the Phil Donahue show and one of her biggest regrets was saving her good stuff. She also wrote a whole article on this. I had beautiful expensive hand painted wine glasses that I have used for the past 24 years. I had 10 and now only have 4. Since I quit drinking I gave them to a friend. I kept 6 nice stemless ones because I can use them daily and also serve wine to my few friends that still drink. I didn’t use my polish pottery daily because it’s expensive and my ex is not careful. Now with just me I will use it daily. I got lucky and bought it at Tuesday morning for 10/plate. Even on sale it sells for 60 each. Unless you buy it in Poland but then shipping is a fortune.

[razz]

Funny how we are different in our priorities. When I first joined SL back in 2003, I think, I was beginning to downsize and examining all those items that I cherished and took up space. They were my treasures of crystal, Royal Doulton china and figurines etc. When I was emotionally ready to part with any one of them, it was my French Provincial china, which DD eventually took, that I replaced with a complete set of Corelle used daily. I kept the crystal and figurines though and am glad that I did. I still have the oil paintings that my parents that I loved from a very early age and treasure them in prominent display as part of my history. They have no economic value to anyone else.

DH, BTW, never did get onboard on the downsizing although he did agree that it needed to be done. We are all so different and interesting

[JaneV2.0]

I'm a collector, like my ancestors before me, but mostly of useful items. Or they would be useful...Like books, art supplies, and now non-perishable food. My forebears collected things like art glass and furniture, but those things couldn't interest me less. At this point, I want nothing I have to worry about.

[rosarugosa]

I discovered that I have four sets of champagne glasses (small sets, 4-5 glasses per set), and I like them all, so I have dedicated the cabinet above the refrigerator and when I have a glass of wine, I use one of the glasses now. And yes, I already broke one--and I never break glasses!

You'll have to have us all over for champagne once you are settled in!
We have 19 coffee mugs, and DH commented one day that if we were going to keep them all, he wanted to use them all. So now I serve his morning coffee in various mugs on a rotating basis.

[iris lilies]

I'm a collector, like my ancestors before me, but mostly of useful items. Or they would be useful...Like books, art supplies, and now non-perishable food. My forebears collected things like art glass and furniture, but those things couldn't interest me less. At this point, I want nothing I have to worry about.
After getting rid of my St. Louis Crystal which had the highest ratio of value to breakable of stuff I own, I don’t think I have much I have to worry about. I would be sad to lose some jewelry, but my jewelry is not high end. About once a year I break one of the floral containers that I buy and some of those are a couple hundred dollars. But then I tell myself well you know it just opens up space on the shelf for something new.

[pinkytoe]

DD wisely told me when I inquired about something she and her hubby were "discussing" that one has to pick their battles in a marriage. DH gladly does cleaning and cooking chores but some like vacuuming I have quietly claimed as mine. He has a way of careening around the wooden floors and bumping into furniture with the vacuum like he's playing bumper car. He leaves dish towels and rags wadded up in balls which I go around hanging up. Overall though, he is respectful of what I cherish as far as things. He tolerates my penchant for organizing and decluttering. He has his own room for tinkering - it's a huge mess in my eyes but he likes it that way. He takes great offense if I try to rearrange the tool room which is also disorganized so I leave that one alone. Grin and bear it I guess to keep the peace.

[catherine]

Shifting from silverware to jewelry, here's another sad story of loss (I think I've told this one but it is relevant to this topic): When I got engaged, DH gave me diamond earrings rather than an engagement ring because I had inherited a diamond ring (don't ask what happened to that). I hardly ever wore them because I wanted them for special occasions--they were little droplet earrings, not diamond studs.

Finally I said to myself, screw it--I'm going to wear them every day. Which I did for several months. My business office was located near a strip mall in which a jewelry store was a part of, and walking past it on the way from getting lunch I stopped in on an impulse to get the earring cleaned.

A couple of weeks later, I realized that I hadn't heard from the jeweler, so I called and they forwarded the call to the owner who told me the store had been broken into and robbed by drug dealers in Paterson NJ. Some of the jewelry had been recovered but not all, and they couldn't tell me if mine was among the found pieces because it was all evidence for the trial.

My earrings never recovered. It was years before I told DH. So when it comes to material things, it helps me to have a mental "let it go" attitude with everything I own because all stuff breaks, degrades, gets lost, gets stolen, gets abandoned.

I don't buy good jewelry anymore, and I tell everyone not to buy it for me. I don't like worrying about my stuff.

[GeorgeParker]

There once was a man who inherited some valuable jewelry. It wasn't anything he would wear, but it was valuable and a family heirloom. One day he became concerned about thieves because a house a few blocks away had been burglarized. He looked around his house for a safe place to hide the jewelry and realized he had several old cans of paint in his garage. So he put the jewelry in a ziplock bag, put the bag in an empty can where the paint was totally dried up, and put the can back on the shelf, confident that no burglar would ever look for valuables there. A couple of years later he decided to declutter and threw away all of the old cans of paint in his garage. A year or so later he thought about the jewelry and couldn't remember where he had hidden it. But then he did remember and....

True story, or so I'm told. And the moral is....

[Chicken lady]

The moral of the story is that paint is considered a hazardous substance and you are not supposed to throw away paint cans unless you have permanently removed the lids (which recycle) and made sure the paint is dry?