View Full Version : Very Cold Weather In South 2/10/21
GeorgeParker
2-10-21, 5:12pm
This 10-day forecast says it all. At 4 pm 2/10/21 it is 32 degrees in north Texas and it's going to get worse during the next few days all the way from Texas to the Atlantic coast. >:(
3619
And here I thought we were going to have an early spring....
frugal-one
2-10-21, 5:46pm
Has been way below zero for the past week. Today went shopping because it was warmer (-2F). Snow is predicted again for tomorrow (have over a foot on the ground with drifts from wind) and wind chills Sat/Sun could be -40F. Happy Valentine's Day! Next week is supposed to include the arctic blast... meaning more cold weather. Three weeks of this crud is too much. I sure wish I was in Texas. Next year for sure!!!!
If the sun shines, I can handle anything provided I am dressed for it. It is cold!
iris lilies
2-10-21, 7:25pm
We are in a ten day cold spell in St. Louis. But we have had such a mild winter so far, I cannot complain.
no sunshine tho razz for a couple of days now. Dreary.
And here I thought we were going to have an early spring....
You should not doubt Punxsutawney Phil.
GeorgeParker
2-14-21, 1:33pm
Snow in Fort Worth TX this morning. Temps in the teens all last night and forecast to be in teens all day today with record breaking low of 6 degrees in the morning. This is my street at noon. No tire tracks. No Footprints. Nothing!
3626
Wow. When was the last time you had snow?
We have a few inches and more to come.
I'm way too old to appreciate snow.
We've had about a foot of snow accumulation over two days this past week and another 8" to possibly 17" due starting tomorrow evening.
This was my driveway after the first 8" earlier in the week.
https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/148693068_10220272259902776_4633169622303374935_o. jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6TUDdQAWMc8AX8Kgr_c&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=92dcd2cd10d5e1b3571786286c00a297&oe=604D2693
https://thumbnails-photos.amazon.com/v1/thumbnail/EpCf6f4aTYOdLJQxTHjN2w?viewBox=876%2C657&ownerId=A8VI8O07KHCM6
No snow here and none (beyond trace amounts) predicted for another 7-10 days until this high is out of here. And, no, I am not going outside to take a picture of our driveway! :0!
3628
About 15” of snow on the ground and maybe another 4”-8” tomorrow into Tuesday. Winter storm watch for now and a wind chill advisory through tomorrow. Went grocery shopping this morning, topped off gas tank, and I probably won’t be driving for the next week (work at home). Out once a week to grocery shop for me and a senior friend. Might go diving next weekend in WI if buddies are available.
GeorgeParker
2-14-21, 2:45pm
Wow. When was the last time you had snow?We have one or two days with a light dusting or maybe .5 inch that melts by noon every year or two. But it’s been nearly six years since North Texas has seen significant snowfall. Dallas-Fort Worth recorded 3.5 inches March 4-5, 2015 according to this article: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/weather/2021/02/12/dallas-fort-worth-prepares-for-major-winter-wallop-that-could-dump-up-to-6-inches-of-snow/
Good statistics in that article and an aerial photo of snow covered Dallas. We get ice a lot more often than snow because rain hits cold pavement and freezes. Hail is a much bigger threat than snow or even ice. We get a lot of hail! According to http://www.interactivehailmaps.com/local-hail-map/fort-worth-tx/ "During the past 12 months the Fort Worth, TX area has had 101 reports of on-the-ground hail by trained spotters, and has been under severe weather warnings 80 times. Doppler radar has detected hail at or near Fort Worth, TX on 159 occasions, including 17 occasions during the past year." And supposedly we're one of the top ten hail areas in the US.
One of my favorite phenomenons out here that I never saw in Georgia is Thunder Snow. The sky will be relatively clear with a thick bank of clouds moving in, and suddenly there will be a huge clap of thunder followed immediately by it starting to snow.
What makes our current weather so bad is the record low temps and the unusually long time we're staying below freezing. Pipes that never freeze will freeze under such conditions and snow or ice that normally melts in a day or two will hang around a lot longer. I'm overjoyed that I've been retired for a couple of years and won't have to get out in this on foot (my normal transportation is a motorcycle). I'm also very happy that it's snow, not ice. Ice brings down trees, tree limbs, and power lines.
Compared to yankeeland this is nothing, but the difference is their infrastructure is (hopefully) built and staffed/equipped to handle their typical weather.
Compared to yankeeland this is nothing, but the difference is their infrastructure is (hopefully) built and staffed/equipped to handle their typical weather.My personal infrastructure for dealing with snow in yankeeland consists of a shovel. (if you look closely you can see it taking a break between the garage doors in the pic above) ;)
I have one of those great new ergonomic shovels with the kink in the handle that saves your back.
Watching my central TX family deal with ice and cold has been interesting. It has been decades there since trees limbs cracked from ice or sub 20 degrees were experienced. They basically shut down everything as ice is so problematic to drive on. Here in Co Springs it is -5 for the high today. More snow on the way.
My personal infrastructure for dealing with snow in yankeeland consists of a shovel.
I could kiss whoever invented the snowblower. With five feet of snow a year on average, an 80 foot driveway, and two other properties to clear, a shovel would take quite some time. I still need a shovel for clearing steps and doorways, though. I actually have two shovels: one of those standard aluminum-bladed models for the "detail" work and a plastic-bladed shovel for clearing the wheelchair ramp at my mom's/brother's place (metal would tear up the paint). Both have the usual straight handle; for some reason I never got the hang of using those bent shovel handles.
frugal-one
2-14-21, 6:19pm
No snow here and none (beyond trace amounts) predicted for another 7-10 days until this high is out of here. And, no, I am not going outside to take a picture of our driveway! :0!
3628
I looked early this morning and Minneapolis had -18F with -38F wind chill. Here we only had -12F and -29F wind chill. We have over a foot of snow on the ground. It is getting hard to clean out the driveway and shovel the snow over the mounds already there. The weather is not going to abate for a few more days. I HATE WINTER!!!! I never want to be here in winter again.
I feel for those in the south who do not have the equipment or knowledge to clean the roads. It sucks even if you can get around.
It sounds like if I had moved back to Beaverton (or another Portland suburb), I'd be twiddling my thumbs in the dark. My sibling, south of PDX, is.
At this point, I'm hoping I don't have a five-day powerless siege like I had some years ago. Then I had cats to keep me warm. Last time, I lived on yogurt and chocolate bars; I'm better prepared this time.
I'm debating whether or not to make the treacherous hike to the mailbox. Probably better through snow than ice; where are those Yaktrax, anyway? I'm trying not to think about the Dyatlov Pass incident...
GeorgeParker
2-15-21, 12:02am
No snow here and none (beyond trace amounts) predicted for another 7-10 days until this high is out of here.Yeah, but moose and squirrel told me it's cold as heck in Frostbite Falls MN. ;)
SteveinMN
2-15-21, 10:15am
Yeah, but moose and squirrel told me it's cold as heck in Frostbite Falls MN. ;)
It's always cold in Frostbite Falls! :laff:
DD says they have been without power since midnight and have 6" of snow. Historic to have two snows in one winter there. I imagine a lot of flora and fauna is kaput.
Just reading about the electricity challenges https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/texas-winter-storm-power-outages-1.5914371. I had no idea of the costs of electricity. Does a home electricity bill adjust to the cost under the Texas service or is it simply averaged over a period of time?
"Electricity prices spike more than 10,000% on the Texas power grid...
Apart from Texas, much of the United States from the Pacific Northwest through the Great Plains and into the mid-Atlantic states has been in the grip of bone-chilling weather over the weekend, featuring snow, sleet and freezing rain.
The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) has sought to cut power use in response to winter record of 69,150 MW on Sunday evening, more than 3,200 MW higher than the previous winter peak in January 2018.
Reserves have dropped below 1,000 MW and transmission companies have been ordered to reduce demand on system, ERCOT said.
"Traffic lights and other infrastructure may be temporarily without power," the agency said on Twitter."
Having experienced challenging winter conditions, I can empathize and hope for a speedy change in weather conditions for all those impacted.
We had 10 inches here and power out in spots all over the county. Starting to thaw now. Lots of trees broken under the weight of the ice, so lots of debris on the streets. Yesterday I went out for a walk in the morning (with my hiking poles) and you could hear a fir cone drop. So quiet even in the city. No traffic.
That said, the bridges were and are just treacherous. Someone drove off the 205 bridge into the Columbia yesterday. Probably a spinout, going too fast to get airborne enough to go over. So tragic.
Supposed to get up into the 40s later and tomorrow, so this should mostly be gone. I just hope what is thawing now does not freeze. I can work from home, thankfully.
My all-electric house costs about $120 a month.
GeorgeParker
2-15-21, 3:35pm
Just reading about the electricity challenges https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/texas-winter-storm-power-outages-1.5914371. I had no idea of the costs of electricity. Does a home electricity bill adjust to the cost under the Texas service or is it simply averaged over a period of time? "Electricity prices spike more than 10,000% on the Texas power grid... What that article is quoting is the "spot price" aka the wholesale price electric utility companies pay to power generators. Price per kilowatthour paid by consumers is regulated by government and that regulated price gives companies the right to pass along spot price increases to consumers to some extent.
Short answer: Price per kilowatt on consumer electric bills will be higher because of this, but not 100 times higher. You're looking at 5-7 days of these prices during a 30 day month during a 365 day year. So on average it all gets averaged out.
dado potato
2-15-21, 5:16pm
I could kiss whoever invented the snowblower.
I think your type of snowblower would be attributed to Arthur Sicard of Quebec, 1925 Inventeur du chasse-neige.
Texas is currently the worst state for electric outages, with about 3.8 million customers without power. I believe there are over 100,000 customers without power in LA, OR, and VA.
http://Poweroutage.us
dado potato
2-16-21, 4:25pm
As of latest report 3.6 million customers in Texas are without electric power. Virginia has gotten better since yesterday, but Kentucky has gotten worse.
I see that State Farm, the largest American insurer for home and auto, is having an outage that began mid-day 2/15. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is ... experiencing an outage.
DD's power (outside Austin) has come and gone over the last two days - once for over ten hours. Groceries have reduced hours if open at all, hotels are gouging, pipes are bursting, people are dying and there is still ice everywhere with more cold coming tonight. There is a lot of anger over this has it is seen as blatant mismanagement by the agency that oversees the power grid (ERCOT) which is a membership-based 501(c)(4) nonprofit corporation led by a board of directors and subject to oversight by the Public Utility Commission of Texas and the Texas Legislature (Republicans and their good old boys lobbyists). The voters have definitely taken notice...
dado potato
2-16-21, 6:53pm
The Houston police department (and no doubt others) are warning residents of criminal victimization by offenders who may come to the entrance of the home dressed as a power company employee. The police warn that any work that legitimate power company employees need to do to restore service can be done outside the dwelling.
Kyle, TX (and no doubt others) is telling residents that the city is close to running out of water supply. "all water use should be suspended unless needed for emergencies"... It is OK to keep a small stream drip from taps to prevent pipes bursting. Also it is OK to drink the water, but it should be boiled first. Boiling water can be problematic if there is no microwave and no working stovetop. City of Kyle lists local warming shelters and tells residents to call ahead to make sure a space is available. It could be frustrating to use a phone if service is interrupted or it is not possible to charge batteries in a phone set.
DD's power (outside Austin) has come and gone over the last two days - once for over ten hours. Groceries have reduced hours if open at all, hotels are gouging, pipes are bursting, people are dying and there is still ice everywhere with more cold coming tonight. There is a lot of anger over this has it is seen as blatant mismanagement by the agency that oversees the power grid (ERCOT) which is a membership-based 501(c)(4) nonprofit corporation led by a board of directors and subject to oversight by the Public Utility Commission of Texas and the Texas Legislature (Republicans and their good old boys lobbyists). The voters have definitely taken notice...
There appear to be a number of factors. There is a lot of electricity generated by wind power in TX, and a lot of that capacity is down due to the wind turbines not working due to icing. Apparently the TX utility companies haven't winterized their equipment like they should have. As a result, the natural gas equipment was freezing up. The drop in pressure took the power plants offline...
GeorgeParker
2-16-21, 9:44pm
There appear to be a number of factors. There is a lot of electricity generated by wind power in TX, and a lot of that capacity is down due to the wind turbines not working due to icing. Apparently the TX utility companies haven't winterized their equipment like they should have. As a result, the natural gas equipment was freezing up. The drop in pressure took the power plants offline...Power plants in the northern US and Canada are built and winterized to withstand weather like this. Power plants in Texas are build to keep working in the "coldest normal winter" instead of having the extra insulation and heating capacity they would need to keep functioning in a northern winter. The result is it costs less to build the Texas gas-powered and coal-powered power plants than building the northern plants, but when 30-year low temperature records are being broken, a lot of Texas power plants have to shut down.
The right-wing propagandists are already shouting from the rooftops that the Texas electricity crisis was caused by Texas relying on wind turbines instead of coal and gas. But ERCOT has acknowledged that most of the non-functioning power plants are gas or coal powered, not solar or wind, and unfortunately that fact will never be heard or believed by any of the anti-environment people who endorse right-wing policies.
So the Austin newspaper is wrong?
https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2021/02/14/historic-winter-storm-freezes-texas-wind-turbines-hampering-electric-generation/4483230001/
GeorgeParker
2-17-21, 2:11am
So the Austin newspaper is wrong? https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2021/02/14/historic-winter-storm-freezes-texas-wind-turbines-hampering-electric-generation/4483230001/No, the newspaper isn't "wrong". They're just lying by giving you lop-sided information.
Read this story in the same paper: https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2021/02/16/austin-power-outage-snow-winter-weather-advisory-texas-cold-austin-american-statesman-guide/6764069002/ Especially the part that says:
"The cold weather is a contributing factor to the widespread power outages affecting millions across the state, as generators fueled by gas, coal, wind and nuclear sources were knocked offline by heavy snow and near-zero temperatures amid spiking demand for power. Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity went offline Monday because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators."
It says right there that all sources of electricity were affected, and another news report quoted ERCOT as saying most of the generators that were shut down by the weather were conventional gas or coal-fired generators.
Methinks someone at that paper has an ax to grind. It's supposedly a left leaning paper, but not all people who lean left like wind turbines. Some left leaners consider them noisy bird killers and want everything to be solar or whatever.
Scandinavia has lots of wind farms; Texas cuts all the corners it can to avoid paying for good infrastructure.
GeorgeParker
2-17-21, 1:22pm
So the Austin newspaper is wrong? https://www.statesman.com/story/news...on/4483230001/ (https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2021/02/14/historic-winter-storm-freezes-texas-wind-turbines-hampering-electric-generation/4483230001/)
An Excerpt From: https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/texas-wind-turbines-frozen/
Frozen wind turbines in Texas caused some conservative state politicians to declare Tuesday that the state was relying too much on renewable energy. But in reality, the lost wind power makes up only a fraction of the reduction in power-generating capacity that has brought outages to millions of Texans across the state during a major winter storm. An official with the Electric Reliability Council of Texas said Tuesday afternoon that 16 gigawatts of renewable energy generation, mostly wind generation, were offline. Nearly double that, 30 gigawatts, had been lost from thermal sources, which includes gas, coal and nuclear energy.
An Excerpt From: https://earther.gizmodo.com/the-real-reason-for-texas-rolling-blackouts-1846279110
(https://earther.gizmodo.com/the-real-reason-for-texas-rolling-blackouts-1846279110)
Texas is really going through it right now. More than four million people are still without power in Texas Tuesday morning after a serious winter storm jacked up energy prices across the U.S. and froze key infrastructure in the state. Like clockwork, reports of frozen wind turbines in Texas have given conservatives a new scapegoat in their unending battle to smear renewable energy. But the real story is much more complicated than that.
An Excerpt From: https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/natural-gas-power-storm/
(https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/natural-gas-power-storm/)
Failures across Texas’ natural gas operations and supply chains due to extreme temperatures are the most significant cause of the power crisis that has left millions of Texans without heat and electricity during the winter storm sweeping the U.S.
Nuff said. Point made imo. Trumpist Republican politicians in Texas are screaming that no more wind turbines should ever be built in Texas and that this is all the fault of Big Brother federal government pushing states to install renewable energy sources instead of gas, coal , and nuclear generators (and that's hogwash.)
If anyone wants to keep debating this please start a new thread in the political forum and leave this thread for weather comments. Thanks.
I am getting first hand accounts from relatives and friends in central TX. Total chaos and miscommunication like a dystopian nightmare. DD was just advised to begin rationing water as lift stations are failing. It is 45 degrees in their house and the power goes on and off every hour. Broken sewer pipes everywhere, flooded houses and exploding transformers. I am not convinced this is a once in a lifetime thing. Weather is changing and infrastructure will have to as well.
I am getting first hand accounts from relatives and friends in central TX. Total chaos and miscommunication like a dystopian nightmare. DD was just advised to begin rationing water as lift stations are failing. It is 45 degrees in their house and the power goes on and off every hour. Broken sewer pipes everywhere, flooded houses and exploding transformers. I am not convinced this is a once in a lifetime thing. Weather is changing and infrastructure will have to as well.
Politicians have been kicking the infrastructure can down the road for decades; it's past time to reverse that.
If anyone wants to keep debating this please start a new thread in the political forum and leave this thread for weather comments. Thanks.
Perhaps it should be up to the original topic poster to decide the course of the thread. You are free to ignore this one as you wish.
It is a really crazy scene in TX. I've been following it on the news, and I can't believe the impact this storm has had on people in the state.
GeorgeParker
2-17-21, 3:33pm
Perhaps it should be up to the original topic poster to decide the course of the thread. You are free to ignore this one as you wish.Please scroll back up to post #1. I am the original topic poster. So my request for the political aspects of this subject to be split off into separate threads is both logical and proper.
Doing so will help keep this thread on topic by separating the political reactions from weather and infrastructure aspects. There will inevitably be gray areas where those subjects overlap, and it's up to each individual poster to decide if what they want to say is on topic or off topic since many threads on SLF wander all over the place anyway.
Please scroll back up to post #1. I am the original topic poster. So my request for the political aspects of this subject to be split off into separate threads is both logical and proper.
Doing so will help keep this thread on topic by separating the political reactions from weather and infrastructure aspects. There will inevitably be gray areas where those subjects overlap, and it's up to each individual poster to decide if what they want to say is on topic or off topic since many threads on SLF wander all over the place anyway.
Dear GP, threads go off the original post more often than not as I have learned over the years. Most often, I have discovered more different viewpoints than I had ever imagined were possible. That is my delight in this website as well as, I confess, the frustration at times. Just go with the flow as none of us controls how the thread will evolve and take none of it personally.
My apologies---I guess I had not scrolled back far enough to the beginning of the thread. Carry on....or not. Personally I always think it's interesting to observe how the thread winds and twists. Sometimes you'd never guess where it started by looking at the end. It's the nature of the forum.
It got up to twenty degrees in my little Wisconsin city today, and there are kids walking around in shorts.
GeorgeParker
2-17-21, 4:25pm
Dear GP, threads go off the original post more often than not as I have learned over the years. go with the flow as none of us controls how the thread will evolve and take none of it personally.Exactly. No one has any real control over which direction a thread goes or how far off topic it gets. That's why my request was a request.
It got up to twenty degrees in my little Wisconsin city today, and there are kids walking around in shorts.
Ha, our mailman has worn shorts all winter, ice storm or not!
When I was in high school in Denver a friend’s younger brother decided to wear shorts all winter one year. That seemed like a bad idea but he survived.
It’s interesting. Ted Cruz left Texas for Cancun today. Governor abbot is making up shit about the evils of green energy causing all their problems. And Beto has mobilized volunteers to check up on seniors and such. Maybe trump will show up to toss some paper towels at people or something.
Sorry George, I know you wanted to keep this thread focused on weather, but getting people to follow that kind of instruction is like trying to herd cats.
happystuff
2-18-21, 10:08am
It got up to twenty degrees in my little Wisconsin city today, and there are kids walking around in shorts.
I saw a kid walking yesterday - I assume, home from an in-school day - in shorts. It was COLD outside! I'm way past that as I want to be warm. LOL.
catherine
2-18-21, 11:25am
When I was in high school in Denver a friend’s younger brother decided to wear shorts all winter one year. That seemed like a bad idea but he survived.
DH wears shorts until Thanksgiving and goes back to them in early spring. He looks weird in pants, but now that we're in VT and he's getting older, he has succumbed to wearing them most of the winter. His friends always make fun of him, and once he got in trouble for wearing pink shorts at church, but he loves his shorts. I figure it's something in his DNA as a kilt-wearing Scotsman.
Just the opposite here...too many years in hot weather. My nickname is three pants woman - tights, thermals, sweats. We keep the thermostat at 63 during the day and 55 at night so layering keeps me comfortable.
When I was a high school student at a boarding school on the range in Colorado, I wore my shorts year-round. I once was skateboarding down to the dining hall for breakfast, with snow on the ground, and the headmaster, walking the other way all huddled up in a parka, yelled at me to put on pants, because "Looking at you makes me cold!".
I've graduated to a kilt.
On the other hand, my first year in college in Miami I went to marching band practice one Saturday in October or November when the weather had finally cooled down to something reasonable like 70 degrees at 10am. It was still a bright sun day so I went to practice in shorts like always, except that I wasn’t sweating buckets. It quickly became apparent which of my fellow students and the instructors were Florida natives. They were all dressed like winter had arrived. The head instructor was wearing a big fluffy down parka.
GeorgeParker
2-23-21, 2:02am
Just reading about the electricity challenges https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/texas-winter-storm-power-outages-1.5914371. I had no idea of the costs of electricity. Does a home electricity bill adjust to the cost under the Texas service or is it simply averaged over a period of time?
"Electricity prices spike more than 10,000% on the Texas power grid...As I said in my previous reply to this post, most people in Texas are on a "fixed cost per kilowatt-hour" electric plan and thus insulated from wholesale price spikes, although those price spikes are eventually reflected in the price we all pay for electricity.
But it turns out some people are on variable-rate electricity plans that save them a lot of money when rates are low, and risk them receiving huge bills when the wholesale price has a crazy spike. So here is a follow-up filling in the information I wasn't aware of when I wrote my previous reply:
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/22/texas-pauses-electric-bills/
Excerpt: "Lawmakers and Abbott have pledged to protect consumers from the big bills, and excoriated the Electric Reliability Council of Texas for the outages last week. The reliability council, which operates the power grid that covers most of the state, is overseen by a Public Utility Commission. Abbott’s office did not respond to a question about what options were on the table. Lawmakers have demanded that the utility commission roll back its decision to allow the huge rate increases, or suggested cobbling together some package of emergency waivers (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/us/texas-storm-electric-bills.html) or relief money (https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/politics/texas-utility-bills-michael-mccaul-cnntv/index.html) to buffer Texans’ from the high bills. “We cannot allow someone to exploit a market when they were the ones responsible for the dire consequences in the first place,” said state Rep. Brooks Landgraf (https://www.texastribune.org/directory/brooks-landgraf/), R-Odessa."
I read in the NYTimes (I think) that an example of this weird way of charging for electricity has resulted in one Texan on a fixed income having to wipe out his savings to pay a $16k electric bill incurred by the price spike. That is unconscionable.
SteveinMN
2-23-21, 10:02am
I read in the NYTimes (I think) that an example of this weird way of charging for electricity has resulted in one Texan on a fixed income having to wipe out his savings to pay a $16k electric bill incurred by the price spike. That is unconscionable.
Much as I don't want to see anyone's retirement savings wiped out by a huge expense, if it was that Texan's choice to use a variable-rate plan (I am assuming it's a choice the consumer makes, not designated to the house or locale), then he chose to live and die by the sword and this time he got cut badly. What about all the money he was saving when electricity prices were lower than his neighbors'?
Would the reaction be different if the discussion was about bailing out someone who lost big at the casino? Or a company that took PPP money last year because they happened to fit the profile, not because they needed the cash?
I’m with Steve. You have to know you’re rolling the dice with a variable rate plan.
GeorgeParker
2-23-21, 12:09pm
I’m with Steve. You have to know you’re rolling the dice with a variable rate plan.Exactly! But these plans were sold to consumers on the basis that you'll be paying half as much or maybe even 1/3 as much as your neighbors for electricity, and consumers weren't warned that there was literally no limit to how high the price could go if things got crazy, or that it could jump that high instantly with no warning. And whatever warning exists is buried deep in the small print so that all the customer sees is a safe sounding line like "the price per kilowatt-hour on this plan will vary and may change frequently." IOW there was no effective warning that you're making a high-stakes bet. But in defense of the electric providers that sold these plans, it's pretty certain that nobody ever thought wholesale electricity costs had any chance of suddenly becoming $9/kilowatt or even $1/kilowatt.
iris lilies
2-23-21, 12:16pm
On the other hand, my first year in college in Miami I went to marching band practice one Saturday in October or November when the weather had finally cooled down to something reasonable like 70 degrees at 10am. It was still a bright sun day so I went to practice in shorts like always, except that I wasn’t sweating buckets. It quickly became apparent which of my fellow students and the instructors were Florida natives. They were all dressed like winter had arrived. The head instructor was wearing a big fluffy down parka.
People they be weenies.
I haven’t worn a real winter coat here in years. I have a heavy hooded sweatshirt and wear it over a long t-shirt. My trunk simply doesn’t get cold.
my ears and hands are another matter. I wear two sets of gloves and have to walk half a mile before my circulation delivers warm blood to my fingers.
Teacher Terry
2-23-21, 1:10pm
I never wore a winter coat here until I lost all that weight. I still don’t wear it often because it’s sunny almost everyday.
Exactly! But these plans were sold to consumers on the basis that you'll be paying half as much or maybe even 1/3 as much as your neighbors for electricity, and consumers weren't warned that there was literally no limit to how high the price could go if things got crazy, or that it could jump that high instantly with no warning. And whatever warning exists is buried deep in the small print so that all the customer sees is a safe sounding line like "the price per kilowatt-hour on this plan will vary and may change frequently." IOW there was no effective warning that you're making a high-stakes bet. But in defense of the electric providers that sold these plans, it's pretty certain that nobody ever thought wholesale electricity costs had any chance of suddenly becoming $9/kilowatt or even $1/kilowatt.
Texas oil and gas executives were truly giddy "We hit the jackpot!" they crowed, gleeful over fleecing the public. Reminds me of the despicable Enron execs literally yukking it up about their machinations bankrupting widows and orphans. Scum.
whatever warning exists is buried deep in the small print so that all the customer sees is a safe sounding line like "the price per kilowatt-hour on this plan will vary and may change frequently." IOW there was no effective warning that you're making a high-stakes bet. But in defense of the electric providers that sold these plans, it's pretty certain that nobody ever thought wholesale electricity costs had any chance of suddenly becoming $9/kilowatt or even $1/kilowatt.
I'm a PITA at contract signings like annuities and house closings because I read everything and I ask questions. Hey, it's my money. :)
I'll agree that seeing electricity go to even a buck or two per Kw is not a scenario many people besides the utility foresaw. But we're all taught from early on that a deal that's too good to be true needs to be examined carefully. Why would an electric utility provide power at half or one-third the usual rate unless there was some protection for them? They're not in it to lose money. Take the deal if you want but recognize you could get bitten, as many did.
Then there's the matter of how to remedy the situation. I find it somewhere between hypocritical and comical that the political party of personal responsibility is the one advocating for all of Texas to bail out those who profited from low electricity rates (perhaps for years) now that the waste material has hit the electric-powered air propulsion device. The same state (likely some of the same R-legislators) is adept at telling poor people (in situations similarly not of their doing) to s*ck it up and get another job or something, but now they want to socialize hard times? Let the guy start a GoFundMe or something. Sorry if that seems harsh but what I'm seeing here is hugely out of character for the Republican party.
ApatheticNoMore
2-23-21, 1:59pm
However stupid the customer may have been to take out a variable rate electricity plan, many places wouldn't even allow such things to exist, so it would be a complete non-issue. I had literally never heard of the existence of such things, I mean really who ever heard of electricity rates being variable by any other than location, usage, and allowed rate changes (if it's not government it's a regulated utility)? I do think people who move from places with sane electrical policy, i.e. none of that nutty billing, could be in for a nasty surprise.
The same state (likely some of the same R-legislators) is adept at telling poor people (in situations similarly not of their doing) to s*ck it up and get another job or something, but now they want to socialize hard times? Let the guy start a GoFundMe or something. Sorry if that seems harsh but what I'm seeing here is hugely out of character for the Republican party.I must have missed any talk of that sort coming out of Texas, but I did hear John Kerry say virtually the same thing a week or two ago.
frugal-one
2-23-21, 2:22pm
People they be weenies.
I haven’t worn a real winter coat here in years. I have a heavy hooded sweatshirt and wear it over a long t-shirt. My trunk simply doesn’t get cold.
my ears and hands are another matter. I wear two sets of gloves and have to walk half a mile before my circulation delivers warm blood to my fingers.
Guess it depends where you live. When it starts to get to about 40F here people are wearing shorts and tank tops!!
GeorgeParker
2-23-21, 4:25pm
Texas oil and gas executives were truly giddy "We hit the jackpot!" they crowed, gleeful over fleecing the public. Reminds me of the despicable Enron execs literally yukking it up about their machinations bankrupting widows and orphans. Scum.Are you quoting something or just spouting propaganda? I doubt any oil or gas executive who wants survive past the ides of March would be stupid enough to make such a statement.
GeorgeParker
2-23-21, 4:33pm
Why would an electric utility provide power at half or one-third the usual rate unless there was some protection for them?Because the electric utility was acting as a service broker. They don't own the power lines or the generators or anything. They just charge a flat monthly fee (for example $10) in exchange for buying electricity at the wholesale price and selling it to you at the same price they paid for it. Their profit comes from their flat fee, not from the price you pay per kilowatt hour. And you as consumer get both the reward of low wholesale prices and the risk of infinitely high price spikes.
BTW a lot of the people who had variable-rate electricity plans are probably the same ignorant people who get their income taxes done at a place that not doesn't charge them anything but actually gives them $50 cash because they had their taxes done there. I used to have co-workers who did that, and no matter how I explained to them that the tax place was taking both their fee and that $50 out of their tax refund, they never believed it, and every year they went right back to the same tax place and recommended it to everyone they knew.
GeorgeParker
2-23-21, 10:43pm
I doubt any oil or gas executive who wants to survive past the ides of March would be stupid enough to make such a statement.BTW: Ref "Ides of March": There was this feller named Shakespeer who wrote a play bout Julius Caesar, and a fortune teller yells at Caesar to "Beware the ides of March" because that was the day the Roman Senators were going to kill him. Also, according to https://earthsky.org/human-world/beware-the-ides-of-march "In ancient Rome, the Ides of March were equivalent to our March 15. In the Roman calendar, this date corresponded to several religious observances. The Romans considered the Ides of March as a deadline for settling debts."
With the Texas Legislature screaming for vengeance, backed up by hoards of outraged citizens howling for blood to flow because they lost electric or water service during this fiasco or received huge electric bills, I figure the high muck-de-mucks of all the companies involved will quickly choose a few disposable low-level executives and throw them to the wolves as a ritual sacrifice. Most of the execs on the ERCOT board of directors have already resigned and are trying to find a good place to hide. Under these circumstances an oil or gas exec would have to be mighty stupid to express anything other than utter shock and horror about this terrible situation which was, of course, caused by someone else at a lower level, not them.
I have been trying to understand what is, has happened and will happen with the jet stream that influences climate issues around the world. People may respond politically, emotionally and rationally but at some point, the human race collectively is going to recognize when nature is impacted by man's many choices.
I found this explanation an easy-to-understand summary. Feel free to challenge, question or debunk it by clear explanation of where Gwynne Dyer is demonstrably wrong.
It’s not funny when people die of the cold, but there was some innocent amusement to be had from the indignation of Texans unable to boil their drinking water during the Big Freeze because the power was still out. Things like that are not supposed to happen in a modern, developed country like the U.S. How dare they?
Others, aware Texas has cut every corner in the public services that it’s possible to cut, were not surprised by the five-day mini-disaster that struck the country’s second-biggest state of 30 million people. One blogger wrote philosophically: “Occasionally, something will happen in Texas to remind the people who live here that we live in a failed state.”
A winter temperature 25°C colder than usual for the time of year is rare, but this is not the first time it has snowed in Texas. The electricity failed, triggering a cascade of other disasters, mainly because of a long-standing refusal to connect the state electricity grid with the two main national grids. (This was done to avoid federal supervision on prices and standards).
The explainers talk about a rogue Arctic vortex, but what’s really happening is much simpler than that. It’s just what global heating has done to the northern hemisphere’s jet stream.
The northern jet stream is a high-speed, high-altitude atmospheric river that flows from west to east all the way around the planet. It marks the boundary between the polar air mass, sometimes called the Polar Vortex, and the warmer air masses of the mid-latitudes. (East-bound airliners crossing the North Atlantic and the North Pacific often hitch a ride on the jet stream, saving up to an hour compared to the west-bound journey.)
The energy that drives the jet stream comes from the temperature difference between the two air masses it divides. However, the Arctic is warming much faster than the rest of the world, so that difference is shrinking and, with less energy, the jet stream is slowing down.
It used to blast straight east all the way around the planet, but even then, it occasionally developed long S-shaped kinks called Rossby waves: big loops extending far north and south of its usual track. As it has slowed down (the average speed is now 150 to 225 km/h), the Rossby waves have grown both more frequent and bigger.
They often now are great loops deviating far north and south from the straight track, and those loops bring with them cold polar air rarely seen so far south, or warm air not seen previously so far north. That’s what happened to Texas last week: one of those Rossby waves brought cold Arctic air all the way south and then, stuck for a while.
The jet stream itself didn’t stop. It just flowed all the way around that loop and kept going east, but the kink stayed put and the cold air in it froze Texas. This pattern will recur lots of times, and Texans will have to learn to live with it. Climate change doesn’t care whether you believe in it or not. And it may get worse.
In June and July of 2018 record-breaking heatwaves hit the western United States, Western Europe and the Caucasus-Caspian Sea region at the same time, while there was extreme rainfall and flash flooding on the U.S. east coast, in eastern Europe and in Japan. It was all happening in big Rossby loops that had taken over the entire jet stream.
All the loops, containing hot dry air or cool moist air, were stuck for upward of two weeks. Norway had its hottest temperature ever but only half the normal rainfall for July, while in Japan severe floods and landslides caused by heavy rain destroyed more than 10,000 homes.
By last year, researchers had found, during over the past twenty years, the same pattern of seven stalled peaks and lows over the same regions — “Wave 7” — has lasted seven times for more than two weeks. In the previous twenty years (1980-2000), that had not happened even once.
This suggests the pattern is getting stronger and since the latitudes where the loops are stalling include most of the major ‘breadbasket’ regions of the northern hemisphere, the crop-killing droughts and heatwaves they bring could cause a big loss in world food production. It’s the ‘unknown unknowns’ that do the worst damage.
Gwynne Dyer is an independent journalist based in London, England.
happystuff
2-24-21, 11:04am
"Climate change doesn’t care whether you believe in it or not."
Sums things up rather nicely, I think.
This is a long article but I found the history of climate changes through the millennia fascinating. It seems we have been living in the golden age the last 100 years or so:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/03/extreme-climate-change-history/617793/
SteveinMN
2-24-21, 12:53pm
BTW a lot of the people who had variable-rate electricity plans are probably the same ignorant people who get their income taxes done at a place that not doesn't charge them anything but actually gives them $50 cash because they had their taxes done there.
That is at least not as devastating as a five-figure electric bill, but it falls in the same category.
btw I'm not against helping out people who find themselves in a predicament that is (in a sense) not of their choosing. I mean, many people took the cheap contract, either hoping against or not knowing about a day of reckoning, A cold spell for so long and a state failure to find ways to keep the lights on? Kinda not the (direct) fault of the people who went for the variable-rate deal.
The situation can be likened to parents who bear a child with Down's Syndrome. Maybe they could have known there was a good chance of the condition; maybe not. But the kid is here and, if they need some help, I think it's in society's interest to provide help. However, if the state is going to socialize loss, it is fair to socialize gain as well through taxation. That's where the discussion starts to fall apart. Personal responsibility seems to stop hard at people's wallets.
GeorgeParker
2-24-21, 3:08pm
btw I'm not against helping out people who find themselves in a predicament that is (in a sense) not of their choosing.... A cold spell for so long and a state failure to find ways to keep the lights on? Kinda not the (direct) fault of the people who went for the variable-rate deal.I think the powers that be will end up declaring the extreme kilowatt hour prices "illegal price gouging during an emergency" and retroactively force all transactions to be recalculated by everyone at some set maximum price. They will also probably force the retail electric providers to accept monthly payments at no interest until whatever high bills are left have been paid off. At least I think that's the best we can hope for, and it seems likely since the power generators and distributors are rightly getting most of the blame for this mess.
This is a long article but I found the history of climate changes through the millennia fascinating. It seems we have been living in the golden age the last 100 years or so:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/03/extreme-climate-change-history/617793/
It is long but very informative. I had read bits and pieces that seemed to conflict but this article brought them all together. Will man (meaning all mankind) make the effort to limit CO2 or simply plan escape hatches into space somewhere for those that can afford it plus their workers?
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