View Full Version : I'm feel betrayed.
happystuff
2-13-21, 5:53pm
I proudly served this country and I am feeling very betrayed and ashamed of it right now. Yay for the 57... shame to the 43.
Enough said - I'm done.
Teacher Terry
2-13-21, 6:46pm
Happy, it’s really disgusting and sends the wrong message. Shame on them.
I proudly served this country ....
As did I.
and I am feeling very betrayed and ashamed of it right now.
That's probably not entirely necessary. I think the entire impeachment and Senate trial thing was misguided as the primary purpose of impeachment is to remove an official from office and wasn't necessary in this instance as the public took care of that for them. The Senate trial seemed to me to be a political maneuver to prevent him from ever holding elected office again, and I think that's something better left to the same public who removed him. I think that Trump acted shamefully but the actions of the House and Senate majorities were shameful in their own right in provoking unnecessary political drama. We should expect better from all our public servants.
I think that if the majority leaders of Congress really thought he was guilty of a prosecutable crime, it should be prosecuted through the legal system rather than a political one.
I knew Ben Sasse personally at one time and he is a man of high principles. I am proud of him for standing his ground. Agreed this wasn't a worthwhile course of action but I am just glad it is over. I hope not to see trump's face again anytime soon.
At least now we know that the impeachment language in the constitution is truly as meaningless as the emoluments clause or the phrase ‘a well regulated militia’.
Personally I was pleasantly stunned that 14% of Republican senators actually take their oath of office seriously.
There is great value in him being found guilty. No ability to run for office again. As well as taxpayer savings:
By law, former presidents are entitled to a pension, staff, office expenses, medical care, health insurance, and Secret Service protection.
happystuff
2-13-21, 10:56pm
As did I.
and I am feeling very betrayed and ashamed of it right now.
That's probably not entirely necessary. I think the entire impeachment and Senate trial thing was misguided as the primary purpose of impeachment is to remove an official from office and wasn't necessary in this instance as the public took care of that for them. The Senate trial seemed to me to be a political maneuver to prevent him from ever holding elected office again, and I think that's something better left to the same public who removed him. I think that Trump acted shamefully but the actions of the House and Senate majorities were shameful in their own right in provoking unnecessary political drama. We should expect better from all our public servants.
I think that if the majority leaders of Congress really thought he was guilty of a prosecutable crime, it should be prosecuted through the legal system rather than a political one.
You are free to think what you think, but you don't get to tell me how I feel.
Open question. Does anyone here think the founders intended that a lame duck president should be able to do anything they want free of consequence beyond ‘the voters in the next election will hold them accountable’?
Teacher Terry
2-14-21, 2:15am
Jp, no of course not. It feels like our country and following the constitution is really degrading. It really makes me wonder if our democratic republic will survive in the long term.
I knew Ben Sasse personally at one time and he is a man of high principles. I am proud of him for standing his ground.
I love his famous quote:"Politics isn't about the weird worship of one dude"
I wish he were more liberal, or at least more moderate, but he does seem to be a man of high principle, and for that, I really respect him.
Open question. Does anyone here think the founders intended that a lame duck president should be able to do anything they want free of consequence beyond ‘the voters in the next election will hold them accountable’?
I think we've gone well beyond what men of honor such as our founders could envision, including a political party's plans and efforts to begin to impeach a duly elected official before he even took office. But aside from that, your question is interesting. I would think that in a smoothly operating government, including one populated by our founders, any political damage a lame duck might incur would be dealt with by Congress and any criminal damage sustained would be directed to the judicial system.
I doubt our founders ever envisioned two political parties squaring off against each other in a world of 24 hour news cycles with each trying to do as much damage to the other as possible in real time, yet here we are...
I think that if the majority leaders of Congress really thought he was guilty of a prosecutable crime, it should be prosecuted through the legal system rather than a political one.
I was thinking the same thing. It seems to me like the Chicago Seven did far less to incite riots and they were convicted.
The outcome is disappointing of course, but overall I think the Dems have to be feeling pretty good right now. I expect they didn't expect more than a few Repubs would break ranks, and they got seven. The case they presented was a slam dunk, and it's all in the history books. Mitch McConnell's post-vote speech was pusillanimous and hypocritical even by Republican standards, as Nancy Pelosi rushed to point out. The idea that a president can't be held accountable for crimes simply because he left office is ludicrous on its face, like saying a bank president can't be tried for embezzlement because he resigned.
Any Repub whose base doesn't consist of completely brainwashed Trump supporters is going to be in a defensive crouch over this for some time to come.
He was guilty as hell of incitement, along with various shakedowns (Ukraine, Georgia), trying to bollix up the post office to delay/discourage mail-in voting, encouraging Kanye West to run to siphon off young or black voters, libeling President Biden and his family, encouraging QAnon, the Proud Boys and other disinformation and terrorist groups, filing frivolous lawsuits, lying incessantly about stolen votes, election rigging, et cetera.--all with the goal of winning an election he couldn't win on his own non-existent merits. And then perpetuating the Big Lie after the election. I hope this isn't a trend, and I deplore the craven, hypocritical behavior of most of the Republicans. Kudos to Susan Collins for finally abandoning her "concern" and voting the right way.
I hope he is prosecuted for each and every one of his crimes.
frugal-one
2-14-21, 12:06pm
He was guilty as hell of incitement, along with various shakedowns (Ukraine, Georgia), trying to bollix up the post office to delay/discourage mail-in voting, encouraging Kanye West to run to siphon off young or black voters, libeling President Biden and his family, encouraging QAnon, the Proud Boys and other disinformation and terrorist groups, filing frivolous lawsuits, lying incessantly about stolen votes, election rigging, et cetera.--all with the goal of winning an election he couldn't win on his own non-existent merits. And then perpetuating the Big Lie after the election. I hope this isn't a trend, and I deplore the craven, hypocritical behavior of most of the Republicans. Kudos to Susan Collins for finally abandoning her "concern" and voting the right way.
I hope he is prosecuted for each and every one of his crimes.
Any way you look at it, I am glad the Hitler-wanna-be is out of the White House. I too, hope he is prosecuted to the max. Too bad he gets the benefits of a former president. He surely doesn't deserve anything. He did the worse possible job.
I would imagine that over time as law enforcement works through it's investigations of the insurrectionists they will figure out how it was organized, who was actually running things and what they did, what trump got for the millions of dollars he gave to the organizers, etc. it won't be a crisp, clean, quick announcement, but will instead probably be dribbles of information over time until some point when they have finally worked their way up to the top of the chain of criminals. Whether the top of the chain turns out to be trump is unknown at this point in time.
In the meantime Georgia's investigation into trump's election interference there promises to be entertaining.
I don’t think the point of this impeachment was the former President’s guilt or innocence relative to a riot. The outcome was always a foregone conclusion. As Trump fades into obscurity as the most acquitted president in history, the Democrats want to keep his memory alive as a bloody shirt they can wave against their opposition. If the Nixon and Clinton experiences are any guide, this will be short-lived.
"Stand down and stand by."
...the Democrats want to keep his memory alive as a bloody shirt they can wave against their opposition.
It's easier to wave a bloody shirt that has actual blood on it -- the blood of a police officer and several civilians dumb enough to swallow Trump's line of bull.
But hey, you can't make an omelet, ya know? We got our tax cuts and justices! (True, we didn't manage to take away health care from millions, but you can't win 'em all.)
ApatheticNoMore
2-14-21, 5:00pm
Yea I sure want to vote for a bunch of incompetents who mismanage a pandemic again (not that it was me personally), yea right. Never again.
We got rid of our would be dictator, Trump, but it seems like 400k + people had to die to secure that outcome (he would have won without the pandemic and we would be talking about Trump's second term). The toll to get rid of such bozos, that never should have attained in power in the first place, is far too high.
"We got rid of our would be dictator, Trump..."
But as happens in many a horror film, he may come back to (political) life.
Teacher Terry
2-14-21, 10:33pm
Our country paid a terrible price in lives lost due to that selfish, incompetent, soulless being.
Our country paid a terrible price in lives lost due to that selfish, incompetent, soulless being.I'm confused, are you talking about Trump or NY Governor Cuomo?
I'm confused, are you talking about Trump or NY Governor Cuomo?
If you are suffering from moderate symptoms of confusion that may be related to Alzheimer’s disease you should ask your doctor if aricept is right for you.
If you are suffering from moderate symptoms of confusion that may be related to Alzheimer’s disease you should ask your doctor if aricept is right for you.Thanks for your concern, my mother is now in advanced stages of Alzheiemer's and the more she deteriorates the more I worry about suffering the same fate. It's such a terrible disease!
If you start seeing me make rambling posts about nonsense subjects, forgetting other members names, expressing my frustration by calling other people or groups names or stopping my posts in mid-sentence, please let me know. I'm good for now but thanks again for your concern.
happystuff
2-15-21, 10:56am
Thanks for your concern, my mother is now in advanced stages of Alzheiemer's and the more she deteriorates the more I worry about suffering the same fate. It's such a terrible disease!
If you start seeing me make rambling posts about nonsense subjects, forgetting other members names, expressing my frustration by calling other people or groups names or stopping my posts in mid-sentence, please let me know. I'm good for now but thanks again for your concern.
I have a bil aging with the same concerns. I can't even imagine.
Prayers and hopes that there is progress in fighting and stopping this disease... soon!
It's easier to wave a bloody shirt that has actual blood on it -- the blood of a police officer and several civilians dumb enough to swallow Trump's line of bull.
But hey, you can't make an omelet, ya know? We got our tax cuts and justices! (True, we didn't manage to take away health care from millions, but you can't win 'em all.)
Oh I have no doubt there’s some blood on the shirt. I’m just questioning the effectiveness of the strategy of tarring the GOP with the whole “orange man bad” thing. If I thought there was a better vehicle for right of center politics in this country, I might consider jumping the GOP ship. My guess, however, is that Trump will cease to be a factor faster than you can say “Hillary Rodham Clinton”.
If trump was going away quickly, as would be reasonable since he’s a one term twice impeached, twice popular vote losing president who also managed to lose both the house and the senate during his presidency, then why did 43 senators vote not to convict him and the other 7 are getting raged at for having the nerve to be ethical.
The problem for the republicans is that they can either be the trump/Qanon party or they can be the college educated suburban white folks party. They can’t be both. It’s still early in this but right now it looks like the trump/Qanon side is winning.
If trump was going away quickly, as would be reasonable since he’s a one term twice impeached, twice popular vote losing president who also managed to lose both the house and the senate during his presidency, then why did 43 senators vote not to convict him and the other 7 are getting raged at for having the nerve to be ethical.
Maybe those 43 senators believed that if there were a crime against the United States it required a trial in the justice system rather than in a political one. Although I think personally that they may not have wanted to grant the Democrats their longstanding goal of convicting their perceived enemy at any cost, for any reason. It's hard to know for sure.
The problem for the republicans is that they can either be the trump/Qanon party or they can be the college educated suburban white folks party. They can’t be both. It’s still early in this but right now it looks like the trump/Qanon side is winning.
I think your side has to take some responsibility for that. I don't think Qanon would even exist if the Democrats hadn't spent the past 5 years doing what they do best, cancelling, intimidating and fostering division. Things can get back to normal fairly quickly if you guys would just stop that.
The problem for the republicans is that they can either be the trump/Qanon party or they can be the college educated suburban white folks party. They can’t be both. It’s still early in this but right now it looks like the trump/Qanon side is winning.
It may be the Alzheimer’s talking, but I suspect it’s more complicated than that. I think there may be an opportunity in the cities, for instance, where progressives display BLM signs in NIMBY-segregated neighborhoods and talk about defunding the police as violent crime rises. Or in the suburbs where people can observe the party of science demanding evidence-based decisions unless the teachers’ unions veto them. Or the zeal to shut down existing energy industries before the new ones can take up the slack. I’m not ready to concede the dawn of a new political age quite yet.
Maybe those 43 senators believed that if there were a crime against the United States it required a trial in the justice system rather than in a political one. Although I think personally that they may not have wanted to grant the Democrats their longstanding goal of convicting their perceived enemy at any cost, for any reason. It's hard to know for sure.
I think your side has to take some responsibility for that. I don't think Qanon would even exist if the Democrats hadn't spent the past 5 years doing what they do best, cancelling, intimidating and fostering division. Things can get back to normal fairly quickly if you guys would just stop that.[/COLOR]
Personally I can't think of many things high crime-ier than spending two months whipping up an angry mob of thugs to attack the heart of of one of the three branches of government in an attempt to overthrow the results of an election. Which is why he was impeached while still in office. That mitch mcconnell chose not to hold the trial until after he was out of office shouldn't change the fact that a trial was warranted and necessary.
As long as the Qanons are in charge the republicans will definitely be the professionals of cancel culture. You really can't get much more cancelish than trying to hang the vice president.
ApatheticNoMore
2-15-21, 3:54pm
Democrats responsible for Q-Anon may be literally more absurd than the things Q-Anon believes, and that's saying a lot. I mean a lot of things may have led to the bad old reign of Donald Trump including even the recession of 08 and it's aftermath, but Democrats creating Q-Anon is not one of them (nor are blood sucking pedophiles).
What should Dems have worked with Trump on? They weren't really who had his ear afterall, who was backing him or pushing him. An infrastructure bill, improving a trade negotiation? I have yet to see any evidence that Trump actually cared about things like an infrastructure bill enough to actually *work* to push them, the man was so unbelievably lazy. And the truth is other than say something like that, most of the policy Trump wanted was also horrible, and I wouldn't want anyone cooperating with him to get it passed, and that all orthogonal to the fact he was a narcissist and possible sociopath personally.
"Cancel culture" just makes me laugh. Righties have been attempting to cancel everything from library books to Colin Kaepernick, with varying degrees of success. The One Million Moms regularly prove that, trying unsuccessfully to ban everything from J.C Penney (for hiring Ellen de Generes) to Campbell soup (gay dads) and Burger King (for using the word "damn" in an ad. Cancel this, stifle that--I imagine they can raise money that way.
iris lilies
2-15-21, 4:43pm
Personally I can't think of many things high crime-ier than spending two months whipping up an angry mob of thugs to attack the heart of of one of the three branches of government in an attempt to overthrow the results of an election. Which is why he was impeached while still in office. That mitch mcconnell chose not to hold the trial until after he was out of office shouldn't change the fact that a trial was warranted and necessary.
As long as the Qanons are in charge the republicans will definitely be the professionals of cancel culture. You really can't get much more cancelish than trying to hang the vice president.
Only to suss out your definitions, do you consider Senators Rand Paul and Ted Cruse to be Qanons?
Only to suss out your definitions, do you consider Senators Rand Paul and Ted Cruse to be Qanons?
I don't think any of them actually believe the Qanon idiocy, except perhaps Tuberville, but here are the ones actively courting the Q vote. Perhaps we can start calling it the GQP.
https://www.npr.org/sections/insurrection-at-the-capitol/2021/01/07/954380156/here-are-the-republicans-who-objected-to-the-electoral-college-count
I don't think any of them actually believe the Qanon idiocy, except perhaps Tuberville, but here are the ones actively courting the Q vote. Perhaps we can start calling it the GQP.
https://www.npr.org/sections/insurrection-at-the-capitol/2021/01/07/954380156/here-are-the-republicans-who-objected-to-the-electoral-college-count
Were the Democrats (I think there were 7) who objected to the electoral college count in 2017 also courting a radical fringe vote? I'm not certain but I believe they objected to more state results that year than the Republicans did this year. Is that correct? And does that mean they were actively courting a larger geographic fringe base or are there different rules for speculating about Democrats?
frugal-one
2-15-21, 10:16pm
Were the Democrats (I think there were 7) who objected to the electoral college count in 2017 also courting a radical fringe vote? I'm not certain but I believe they objected to more state results that year than the Republicans did this year. Is that correct? And does that mean they were actively courting a larger geographic fringe base or are there different rules for speculating about Democrats?
Nope.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/how-three-conspiracy-theorists-took-q-sparked-qanon-n900531
Nope.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/how-three-conspiracy-theorists-took-q-sparked-qanon-n900531
I'm sure that's an answer to something, just not to anything I've asked. Or is that my Alzheimer's induced confusion kicking in?
No democratic senators objected to the electoral college results in 2017.
No democratic senators objected to the electoral college results in 2017.That's correct, they were House members. I believe at least one of them then became a House impeachment manager in the effort to remove Trump from office. Following your logic, were those House members courting a radical fringe vote?
When our side really does have an election stolen, we are very gracious about it. :~)
Since there has not been a single credible report of election irregularities* (let alone 80 million of them) in the 2020 election, I hold those Republicans who refused to vote to certify President Biden partially responsible for Trump's attempted Q, er coup[.
*Not counting the two Georgia cases of dead Republicans voting.
That's correct, they were House members. I believe at least one of them then became a House impeachment manager in the effort to remove Trump from office. Following your logic, were those House members courting a radical fringe vote?
That happens every election. What doesn't happen every election is two months of a pathetic sad loser whipping his/her supporters into a frenzy about a baseless accusation of a stolen election, followed by multiple senators supporting their efforts even after those supporters had attacked the capitol in an attempt to prevent/alter the counting of the electoral college.
Your bothsidesism is not convincing.
Teacher Terry
2-16-21, 11:52am
What republicans supported is unprecedented and could have gotten pence killed along with others. For those that can’t see the difference I have no words.
ApatheticNoMore
2-16-21, 12:11pm
Besides 7 versus 120 or so House members refusing to concede the election to Biden. In what universe are those comparable numbers?
Your bothsidesism is not convincing.Bothsideism is real, there's no doubt of it, my question to you was are both sides held to the same standard?
Bothsideism is real, there's no doubt of it, my question to you was are both sides held to the same standard?
Absolutely. If a democrat ever loses the presidency again and then incites an insurrection you can feel free to both sides it all you want.
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