View Full Version : Update re retirement
gimmethesimplelife
2-21-21, 6:06pm
We have been researching Columbia and are interested and it's very easy to get permanent residency paperwork there - but there are red flags in the mix, too. Columbia has things going for it but is no utopia.
Decision made though. Post covid - if international travel resumes for real again - tickets to Bogota in premium economy. We'll see but this does seem feasible.....Rob
What are the pros/cons vs MX?
GeorgeParker
2-21-21, 6:35pm
What are the pros/cons vs MX?https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/migrants-refugees-and-travelers/columbianrefugees
IOW Colombia is Mexico on steroids.
Be cautious if by re Retirement you mean moving there. My boss of the 80s retired next door in Equador. Moving around via car there became difficult and expensive starting about 7y ago. Meaning, paying blood money "$20 if you wanna go down this road". And it was a daily occurrence. He and his wife ended up coming back when it then commenced to being dangerous d/t weapons being obvious.
You'll have plenty of fodder if you want to keep up your anti policy brutality efforts, as noted in the article I posted a link to in your thread Blue! Here it is again:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/colombia-police-protest-javier-ordonez/2020/10/05/c8f2df86-0438-11eb-897d-3a6201d6643f_story.html
Unless, given your spelling of the place, you are referring to South Carolina not South America.
I have a good friend who moved there a few years back to live. His wife was from there. He spoke the language fluently. He's a good problem solver, and not easily discouraged.
He had plenty of capital, opened up a hotel and bought a cattle/guinea pig ranch.
He lasted about 3 years, before moving back to Florida.
The level of corruption and violence was a bit much.
Be careful. My friend is very capable and resourceful, with local knowledge and contacts.
https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/migrants-refugees-and-travelers/columbianrefugees
IOW Colombia is Mexico on steroids.
What is the date of that document? I looked for it without success and the info seems out of date. Colombia is actually helping the fleeing Venezualan refugees at present by giving them longterm visas leading to citizenship.
That said, until you get close to the retirement date, there will be lots of changes in the South and Central American countries politics and finances. I would not be surprised to one day see that Cuba is a desirable retirement destination .
Added later from BBC news:
The most important humanitarian gesture in decades?
Venezuela's ongoing economic and political turmoil could result in the biggest displacement of people in the world in recent years. It is an issue that has repercussions for the whole region.
While many countries have acted to deter the migrants, Colombia has taken a step in a radically different direction, granting nearly a million undocumented Venezuelans the right to stay for 10 years.
BBC Monitoring's Luis Fajardo looks at how the situation compares with other migrant crises around the world and where it leaves a country already struggling with unemployment and the coronavirus pandemic.
GeorgeParker
2-22-21, 3:55am
What is the date of that document? I looked for it without success and the info seems out of date. Colombia is actually helping the fleeing Venezualan refugees at present by giving them longterm visas leading to citizenship.
That said, until you get close to the retirement date, there will be lots of changes in the South and Central American countries politics and finances. I would not be surprised to one day see that Cuba is a desirable retirement destination .
Added later from BBC news:
The most important humanitarian gesture in decades?
Venezuela's ongoing economic and political turmoil could result in the biggest displacement of people in the world in recent years. It is an issue that has repercussions for the whole region.
While many countries have acted to deter the migrants, Colombia has taken a step in a radically different direction, granting nearly a million undocumented Venezuelans the right to stay for 10 years.
BBC Monitoring's Luis Fajardo looks at how the situation compares with other migrant crises around the world and where it leaves a country already struggling with unemployment and the coronavirus pandemic.The URL as posted works fine for me. https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/migrants-refugees-and-travelers/columbianrefugees
Here's another one from November 2019 that talks about the massive number of displaced Colombians within Colombia and the influx of Venezuelans making the situation worse. https://p.dw.com/p/3JA63
Maybe the current decision to grant Venezuelans legal status is legitimate, or maybe it's just a public relations ploy to deflect other countries criticizing Columbia, or maybe it's a ploy to get all those Venezuelan refugees registered so they can be tracked, taxed, and controlled. We won't know until we see what happens next. But there is nowhere south of the border I would want to live instead of here. If other people feel differently, they're welcome to move to whatever country they prefer whether it's England, Holland, Cuba, or someplace else. It's their life and their decision as far as I'm concerned.
Teacher Terry
2-22-21, 11:44am
One of the problems with going to one of these countries is that they may be stable when you retire like Venezuela and then destabilize.
Something to maybe consider:
What if family who live in another country die and/or need help in their old age? Would you have the money to visit them?
I’ve seen people whose parents retired to another country struggle with these issues.
Gimme, you won't be retiring for a few years.
IMHO, every decade has very traumatic turbulence with unexpected triggers and consequences for the average person.
The 1970's had the oil embargo;
the 80's had the crazy interest rates plus https://theweek.com/articles/486362/where-americas-jobs-went..
"When did offshoring become so prevalent?
The trend began in earnest in the late 1970s at large manufacturers such as General Electric. GE’s then CEO, Jack Welch, who was widely respected by other corporate chieftains, argued that public corporations owe their primary allegiance to stockholders, not employees [or their communities]. Therefore, Welch said, companies should seek to lower costs and maximize profits by moving operations wherever is cheapest. “Ideally,” Welch said, “you’d have every plant you own on a barge to move with currencies and changes in the economy.” Not only did GE offshore much of its manufacturing, so did its parts suppliers, which were instructed at GE-orchestrated “supplier migration seminars” to “migrate or be out of business.”
by the 90's many jobs were gone, communities suffered from lack of jobs, opportunities and the social consequences of it all but those shareholders who bought the stock because they were employed were rewarded. Add in the turbulence of the Y2K accommodation and then;
the 2008 worldwide financial disaster enacted by greedy financial thieves, few of whom were penalized and;
now add in the 2020 costly trauma from covid with the poor and certain jobs suffering the most consequences in addition to droughts and tornadoes and hurricanes from climate change.
You cannot plan far ahead in the US or Canada but try to build a buffer against a huge disaster not of your making. Going to a country with which you are not familiar and expecting that country to be stable after a long history of being politically unsettled is perhaps not the best choice. You have no idea of what the future holds anymore than anyone else. Every decade has its problems caused by forces over which you have no control. Who knows what lies ahead over the coming decades? The US has weathered many challenges and has the resources to withstand them.
iris lilies
2-22-21, 12:59pm
When I think about cheap places to retire, it is never south of the border in the United States.
It is always Asia or eastern Europe. And that is mainly because I like those cultures. But the OP has a working knowledge of Spanish so that is good and I have a working knowledge of none of the language is used in cheap places to retire that I think of. On the other hand, I am retiring in Hermann Missouri which is pretty damn cheap. Total housing cost if I never wanted to upgrade anything and just live in a house the way it is, would be around 2200 a year. That does not include telecommunications utilities however but it includes everything else Dash water Dash gas Dash electric.
I’m never attracted to those coastal high-rise condos that retirees seem to flock to.
Teacher Terry
2-22-21, 1:08pm
Retirement in a cheap place is not one of my goals. It’s more important for me to be around family and friends. I don’t want to rebuild my life at this age.
When I think about cheap places to retire, it is never south of the border in the United States.
It is always Asia or eastern Europe. And that is mainly because I like those cultures. But the OP has a working knowledge of Spanish so that is good and I have a working knowledge of none of the language is used in cheap places to retire that I think of. On the other hand, I am retiring in Hermann Missouri which is pretty damn cheap. Total housing cost if I never wanted to upgrade anything and just live in a house the way it is, would be around 2200 a year. That does not include telecommunications utilities however but it includes everything else Dash water Dash gas Dash electric.
I’m never attracted to those coastal high-rise condos that retirees seem to flock to.
$2200 per year? Really !!!!! A month maybe? My C$ monthly cost to live including utilities let's see. I have not calculated it recently.
Adding taxes, groceries, insurance for house and car, utilities, tech with some extra and to include some home maintenance plus dog's care and food works to an average of $1500/mth in a paid for home. I would not move ever until unable to maintain my home on my own with possibly some services contracted like lawn care and snow removal. I have access to all services if no longer able to drive but still able to walk.
Retirement in a cheap place is not one of my goals. It’s more important for me to be around family and friends. I don’t want to rebuild my life at this age.
Agreed. What if you move and then have health issues and need help? No one is close to you. Expecting people to travel to help you is selfish.
iris lilies
2-22-21, 1:55pm
$2200 per year? Really !!!!! A month maybe? My C$ monthly cost to live including utilities let's see. I have not calculated it recently.
Adding taxes, groceries, insurance for house and car, utilities, tech with some extra and to include some home maintenance plus dog's care and food works to an average of $1500/mth in a paid for home. I would not move ever until unable to maintain my home on my own with possibly some services contracted like lawn care and snow removal. I have access to all services if no longer able to drive but still able to walk.
Hermann house:
Taxes are $1,100 annually
utilities that are necessesities are, ok more than $100 monthly. Wish I had the bills here. Probably normal month is $125 -$150, high heat months or high air cooling months are $200-$215.
So you are right, $3,000 - $ 3,500 annually to maintain this house is more like it.
I’m not including gasoline for the car, any car cost, any pet costs, any groceries, any travel od ANY other costs of living. . I’m including only the cost of this abode. But this is a house in rather rough condition and most of you would not live here.
Your annual property tax is 1/3 of mine. I based the calculations on general cost of living a normal life. My theatre tickets, travel and social activities which are more of a choice than the basic necessities of living do add up.
My house was completed in 2014. I finished the downstairs basement, added a brick patio and finished the chain link fencing plus basic landscaping. It will need a new roof in about 6-10 years, possibly a new garage door, new hot water tank but little else. A few years ago, I looked at the AARP checklist for senior accommodation and my house met just about all the criteria except the wheelchair accessible doorways and shower. I love my little house!
GeorgeParker
2-22-21, 3:54pm
I am retiring in Hermann Missouri which is pretty damn cheap. Total housing cost if I never wanted to upgrade anything and just live in a house the way it is, would be around 2200 a year. That does not include telecommunications utilities however but it includes everything else - water - gas - electric.$2200/year is $183.33 per month. There is no way you could cover property tax, homeowners insurance, water, gas, and electric for that. And renting would have all the same expenses, just hidden inside your monthly rent payment.
According to https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/zip-code/missouri/hermann/65041 the cost of living (including housing expense) in Hermann Missouri is 85.8% of the national average and the median house price is $153,200. It looks like either you dropped a zero (meaning it should be $22,000/year) or your translation software messed up the number.
$183.33 per month simply isn't possible unless you're living in a rundown cabin in the woods, sharing the house with several other people, or renting a room in a boarding house that doesn't provide food.
So, please proofread and clarify.:thankyou:
iris lilies
2-22-21, 4:59pm
$2200/year is $183.33 per month. There is no way you could cover property tax, homeowners insurance, water, gas, and electric for that. And renting would have all the same expenses, just hidden inside your monthly rent payment.
According to https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/zip-code/missouri/hermann/65041 the cost of living (including housing expense) in Hermann Missouri is 85.8% of the national average and the median house price is $153,200. It looks like either you dropped a zero (meaning it should be $22,000/year) or your translation software messed up the number.
$183.33 per month simply isn't possible unless you're living in a rundown cabin in the woods, sharing the house with several other people, or renting a room in a boarding house that doesn't provide food.
So, please proofread and clarify.:thankyou:
see adjustment above. But that doesn't include insurance, forgot that, ‘ tho insurance is cheap but yeah, more added.
Oh you people, you want accuracy from me! Demanding bunch you are, haha.
I will work on it and get all the basic costs tied to our Hermann house of 1,200- 1,400 square-foot lay it out. It’s still pretty cheap and it’s cheaper than buying comparable property in Eastern Europe.
Meanwhile, you can chew on the fact that we are doing a giant major renovation to this house and will have amount of money in it that I don’t know how much it will be. DH says we’re putting in $175,000 I say it could well go over $200,000. That plus the initial purchase price means we will have around $300,000 into it.
And we will be able to get $175,000 for it. Like I say, Herman is cheap.
There’s a reason the current exodus from expensive cities sees people heading to Missouri as one of the top five or six states.
iris lilies
2-22-21, 5:01pm
$2200/year is $183.33 per month. There is no way you could cover property tax, homeowners insurance, water, gas, and electric for that. And renting would have all the same expenses, just hidden inside your monthly rent payment.
According to https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/zip-code/missouri/hermann/65041 the cost of living (including housing expense) in Hermann Missouri is 85.8% of the national average and the median house price is $153,200. It looks like either you dropped a zero (meaning it should be $22,000/year) or your translation software messed up the number.
$183.33 per month simply isn't possible unless you're living in a rundown cabin in the woods, sharing the house with several other people, or renting a room in a boarding house that doesn't provide food.
So, please proofread and clarify.:thankyou:
Also I have no house payment. The average cost of living you quote probably includes mortgage payments. I don’t have one.
iris lilies
2-22-21, 5:51pm
Ok you people! Haha. I was wrong, here are the actual, fixed annual costs to have our Hermann house at a basic level:
Real estate taxes:$1,245
House insurance: $880
Utilities (gas, electric, water, sewer, garbage): $ 2,292
no telecom. Utilities are higher than I remembered, usually between $150 and $200 per month.
total annual fixed costs: $4,417
yeah ok, twice as much as my original post, but still cheap.
I didn’t include telecom cost because that is not basic and essential. We owned this property for two years without having any Internet or other cable etc.
I don’t include any maintenance because that is impossible to estimate. All of our maintenance so far has been entirely idiosyncratic stuff on the land. We are not doing any repairs in this house because we knew we would be doing a major renovation. We spend thousands of dollars on landscaping and equipment but that is entirely discretionary. It is our playground.
People who needed to keep their costs down would not be doing the weird stuff that we do. I spent $800 last year alone on Turface for instance.
gimmethesimplelife
2-23-21, 8:21pm
And another update. Turns out those wonderful pro LGBT laws on the books in Colombia are not enforced, and gays are subjected to a great deal of harassment/discrimination there. No thanks. But I would still visit. Looking into Costa Rica now. Rob
rosarugosa
2-24-21, 5:39am
And another update. Turns out those wonderful pro LGBT laws on the books in Colombia are not enforced, and gays are subjected to a great deal of harassment/discrimination there. No thanks. But I would still visit. Looking into Costa Rica now. Rob
Wow, glad you found this out sooner rather than later!
Costa Rica is a stable democracy, has a decent sized expat community, and is a good choice.
Teacher Terry
2-24-21, 10:46am
By the time you retire the information you have now will be a moot point. These countries change all the time.
And another update. Turns out those wonderful pro LGBT laws on the books in Colombia are not enforced, and gays are subjected to a great deal of harassment/discrimination there. No thanks. But I would still visit. Looking into Costa Rica now. Rob
So many expats there, COL has risen dramatically in the last 10 years. May be not be the delight later that is currently perceived. A colleague went there for a week 2y ago. Although they had a lovely time and took guided trips for "local flavor", they won't return.
Where ever you consider when the time comes, definitely do an extended stay. I know 3 retirees who went to their dream location. All stayed less than 3 years. and they encountered significant loss upon return. Housing had gone up immensely here. 2 of 3 went back to work of some sort to fill the gap needed.
Where ever you consider when the time comes, definitely do an extended stay. I know 3 retirees who went to their dream location. All stayed less than 3 years.
My county is a "retirement destination". At 57 years old, I'm the median age for the county. A large percentage of our citizens are > 65 and retired. Most of them moved here from someplace else to "retire" here.
Many people move here looking to fix something they think is missing in their life. Typically, their problem isn't something solved by geographic location.
The typical "incomer", if they just move here, lasts < 3 years, before they fold their tent and leave. Most "locals" won't form close relationships with incomers until they've made it through 3 winters, which can't help the situation much. And then we have the retiree subpopulation who just come by for the peak season, then fly off to somewhere else the rest of the year - they don't integrate particularly well, it seems.
The people who successfully transplant seem to have taken more time in their decision, coming here multiple times to visit during different seasons over a period of years.
Anyways, this is all great for the local real estate industry, and for the county's special real estate transfer taxes, because properties churn all the time.
gimmethesimplelife
2-25-21, 8:49am
What are the pros/cons vs MX?We are both so blown away by the generosity and decency of Columbia in giving documented status, work permits and access to health care and education for 1.5 million Venezuelan migrants. Such a display of humanity is very attractive for those seeking lower costs elsewhere. But the LGBT thing is a dealbreaker for sure. Rob
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