View Full Version : Well-Designed 258 sq ft Apartment (No Ladders or Foldaway Stuff)
GeorgeParker
2-28-21, 10:27pm
This tiny apartment feels spacious and avoids the usual annoyances like having to climb ladders or having to reconfigure furniture when you want to sit, eat, or go to bed. Everything stays right where it is all the time except a neat sliding screen that glides across the room on a barn-door track to hide the bed during the day.
One of the neat things about this apartment is that it would also be a good design for a small house or cabin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daL7TkzyW7k
Teacher Terry
2-28-21, 11:04pm
That’s interesting. If you weren’t home much I see how it could work.
GeorgeParker
2-28-21, 11:58pm
If you weren’t home much I see how it could work.Most people of working age sleep 8 hours, work 8 hours (or more), spend 2 hours (or more) commuting, lunch break, etc. So far that adds up to a minimum of 18 hours a day they're either gone or asleep. Most of the remaining 6 hours they're either cooking, eating, bathing, or looking at a TV/computer; all of which are activities that involve sitting or standing in a few square feet of floor space. So size-wise, that apartment is plenty big enough for a couple if both work.
If only one person works it would probably still be ok because the big windows avoid it feeling boxed-in or tiny. And of course on Saturday and Sunday most working people go out most of the day for some kind of recreation, grocery shopping, etc.
In my own situation, being retired and being familiar with my own daily routine, it would be plenty big enough for me to live in full time.
Contrarywise, if it was built as a tiny house I would obviously add a screen porch or patio for outdoor living space.
Teacher Terry
3-1-21, 1:24am
Most couples wouldn’t want to be in that small a space. People like some private spaces, some people have hobbies that involve stuff, others like to have friends and family over, etc.
I disagree that most working people spend most of their weekends away from home. This is especially not true in northern winters when it is cold out and of course during the pandemic.
GeorgeParker
3-1-21, 5:51am
I disagree that most working people spend most of their weekends away from home. This is especially not true in northern winters when it is cold out and of course during the pandemic.The pandemic is a special case, which I hope will soon be over. And I didn't say most people spend most of their weekends "away from home" (which in my part of the US means "traveling"). I said most people who work all week go out on Saturday and Sunday for recreation, errands, and shopping. And as far as I can tell from everything I've read or seen, that's just as true in the north as it is in the south because "If the weather isn't bad enough to keep you from going to work...."
GeorgeParker
3-1-21, 6:13am
Most couples wouldn’t want to be in that small a space. People like some private spaces, some people have hobbies that involve stuff, others like to have friends and family over, etc.I can't certify what most couples want now in terms of sq ft, but tiny apartments and tiny houses have been a growing trend for a decade now in the places where they're legal. Not to mention all the retired couples who full-time RV, and that's been going on since the 1960s.
Obviously a tiny apartment isn't right for everyone. Some people need a big space. For example people who want a big kitchen because they love to cook, and people who like to throw big parties or invite 10 people over for dinner, and people who have a hobby or home business that requires keeping a lot stuff spread out all the time, and people who just plain want more space. But this apartment wasn't intended or designed for people like that. It's intended for people, including couples, who are content to live in a small space but don't want the hassle of having to climb up to a loft bed or wrestle with a murphy bed or transform their dinner table into a bed every time they want to take a nap.
IOW this is a good example of how to avoid some of the things potential tinyhouse buyers object to most frequently. It will never appeal to most people looking for a house or apartment and it isn't intended to.
The pandemic is a special case, which I hope will soon be over. And I didn't say most people spend most of their weekends "away from home" (which in my part of the US means "traveling"). I said most people who work all week go out on Saturday and Sunday for recreation, errands, and shopping. And as far as I can tell from everything I've read or seen, that's just as true in the north as it is in the south because "If the weather isn't bad enough to keep you from going to work...."
The errands etc do not take up most of the weekend. In my neighborhood people's cars are parked in their driveways most of the day on weekends. In good weather they may be in the yard. In bad weather they are indoors except when they are shoveling, snowblowing, or roof raking.
I read that the trend now is away from open concept. With more people working from home they want office space, remote learning room, free from distraction. It will be interesting to see if this trend continues post-pandemic.
That is a really well-thought out space and it has a very serene vibe.
I love that space... there is a guy in the Princeton area in NJ who had a Zen space above his garage that was so cool he would open it up for a week every year for people to see, and it was similar to this in terms of layout and how the sleeping area was laid out. That space was SO appealing to me, and the one in the video is appealing, too. I LOVE how the bed"room" wall is a big window, and I love the sliding room divider. I'm thinking of doing something like that in my house to open up more space. I'd widen the existing door to my office/guest room and put in a sliding shoji door. This way it would expand the common area yet it could still be a real room apart when I wanted it to.
I'm studying that video for cool space-saving ideas. I'm always on the lookout!
I like this apartment. I’m also going to disagree that working people spend a lot of their weekends not at home. It really depends on what your hobbies are. I’ll run out for shopping and church on the weekends, but even pre-Covid I’m home a lot on weekends. Now from April through October, I’m gone at least one weekend day diving.
dado potato
3-1-21, 10:16am
Based on the video link, I wonder if the design includes creature comforts, such as
Washer-dryer for clothes
Dish washer
spot to sit just inside entrance, with closet for outerwear, umbrella and boots.
Dado, I’d say no washer/dryer. Maybe there’s a laundry room on each floor.
I can see it for vacationing, as a dorm alternative or temporary housing.
GeorgeParker
3-1-21, 11:41am
The errands etc do not take up most of the weekend. In my neighborhood people's cars are parked in their driveways most of the day on weekends. In good weather they may be in the yard. In bad weather they are indoors except when they are shoveling, snowblowing, or roof raking.In pre-pandemic times the weekend was when people did all the things they didn't have time for during the workweek, and most of those things involved going somewhere to socialize and have fun.
Your statement that "The errands etc do not take up most of the weekend." baffles me. Why do you not grok the concept of recreation and socializing? I'm a notorious loner, but even I enjoy going somewhere that I can get lost in a crowd or wander alone in the woods or just go for a 40 mile ride on my motorcycle for the fun of it.
Someone else commented that that sounds like a twenty-something lifestyle. Yes it probably is, although it is my lifestyle too, and I'm in my 70s.
GeorgeParker
3-1-21, 12:09pm
Before this thread goes any further off topic let me state a truism that ought to be obvious. There are 3 positions that I do not endorse and never will. They are:
Everybody can/should live in a tiny apartment or tiny house.
Nobody can/should live in a tiny apartment or tiny house.
The government, neighbors, or busybodies should decide what is or is not enough space for someone else to live in.
IOW: If living in a tiny apartment or tiny house appeals to a person or a couple, they should do it. If not, they should avoid it, unless cost or some other factor requires them to temporarily live in one. Both those facts should be obvious.
Now, returning to the subject of this thread: If some people choose to live in a small space, I believe this tiny apartment has a good floorplan and includes a lot of good ideas that could be incorporated into a tiny design, or any design for that matter.
Personally I could easily live in an apartment this size, and when I was younger I did, as did most of my friends, including couples. But on the whole I would prefer to have 500-600 square feet with 260 sq ft in a compact living unit like this and the rest totally flexible open floor space that can be used in whatever way strikes my fancy on any given day. YMMV and should.
Teacher Terry
3-1-21, 12:18pm
Some people are home so little during the week with working that when the weekends come they want to enjoy their home. If they have children they want to spend time with them not running around. We often did errands during the week so weekends were free for relaxing. This is also a great time to have friends over for dinner or in nice weather have friends over for a barbecue outside.
And some have hobbies that are home based. Gardener, wood worker, quilter, etc. Some people don’t need to recreate away from home.
Also, units like this would be ideal for Housing First apartments for the recently homeless.
ApatheticNoMore
3-1-21, 12:55pm
I don't spend most of my weekends away from home. Pandemic or not. I just don't. Spending most of your time out of the house sounds like a good lifestyle for a 20 something or thereabouts. But I'm not a 20 something.
What's the point of living in these super cramped spaces anyway? Is there a belief they are significantly cheaper? I don't think it actually works like that. There are no great savings to be had there over a normal apartment (even a place with no kitchen at all will only save a small amount). I don't think it's something people really do if they really need to reduce rents, what people might do: location in an area may make a difference but there starts to be a tradeoff with commutes and other things, roommates is an obvious one, you can try to find a place with rent control but that only limits increases, beyond that more extreme stuff: renting a couch off someone else rather than a room or renting your couch, living in a garage etc..
It looks nice of course, but never choose a place to live based on looks, that's house flipper nonsense, to fix up the looks and think it matters oh so much. Choose it on is it practical to actually live there. A squishy bed right by the window is too much light to sleep. The fridge is tiny, I'm sure it would work if you went to the store every other day but if not ... etc..
iris lilies
3-1-21, 12:59pm
I’ve been going down a rabbit hole watching videos of a guy who promotes New York City rentals. I watched him showcase these spaces, and some of them are not bad. And then some of them are not bad in price and I was thinking to myself, gee, $1800 a month isn’t all that bad when I consider that I would spend $1000 a month here in St. Louis.
But then he gets real and says well that’s per bedroom, And if he showing a two bedroom unit he quotes the monthly price as a per bedroom cost. That $1800 per month rental with a tiny bedroom and another small bedroom rents for nearly $4000 a month.
ApatheticNoMore
3-1-21, 1:08pm
Based on the video link, I wonder if the design includes creature comforts, such as
Washer-dryer for clothes
Dish washer
spot to sit just inside entrance, with closet for outerwear, umbrella and boots.
well I would say that is optional as I don't have any of those things, but there is a shared apartment washer/dryer, and dishes they are a royal pain, but there is a thing called a sink, you take a sponge and wash dishes in it. :)
Some people are home so little during the week with working that when the weekends come they want to enjoy their home. We often did errands during the week so weekends were free for relaxing. This is also a great time to have friends over for dinner or in nice weather have friends over for a barbecue outside.
This is us!
I don't spend most of my weekends away from home. Pandemic or not. I just don't. Spending most of your time out of the house sounds like a good lifestyle for a 20 something or thereabouts. But I'm not a 20 something.
What's the point of living in these super cramped spaces anyway? Is there a belief they are significantly cheaper? I don't think it actually works like that. There are no great savings to be had there over a normal apartment (even a place with no kitchen at all will only save a small amount). I don't think it's something people really do if they really need to reduce rents, what people might do: location in an area may make a difference but there starts to be a tradeoff with commutes and other things, roommates is an obvious one, you can try to find a place with rent control but that only limits increases, beyond that more extreme stuff: renting a couch off someone else rather than a room or renting your couch, living in a garage etc..
It looks nice of course, but never choose a place to live based on looks, that's house flipper nonsense, to fix up the looks and think it matters oh so much. Choose it on is it practical to actually live there. A squishy bed right by the window is too much light to sleep. The fridge is tiny, I'm sure it would work if you went to the store every other day but if not ... etc..
Some of it is reusing older housing stock. This one was a 1960s building. The apartment already existed. They just redid it.
Then there’s the thinking that smaller spaces use less energy, etc.
GeorgeParker
3-1-21, 1:24pm
That is a really well-thought out space and it has a very serene vibe.That was my impression too, but we seem to be in the minority. Many people who would never live in a space this size don't see the intrinsic beauty of what this couple was able to do in such a small space.
Oh well, to each their own.
I would love it if it were just me. However, it's not just myself at this point in time, and I would want at least 1 separate and distinct "escape" room - LOL.
I lived in one reasonably-sized room with a bath down the hall in my last year of college. It was fine then, but I have no desire to live in spartan quarters now. Soon enough when someone deposits me in the Shady Acres Home for the Feeble...
I could be perfectly happy in 800-1200 square feet, but the looks, setting, view a property provides is always of paramount consideration for me.
GeorgeParker
3-1-21, 1:53pm
I read that the trend now is away from open concept. With more people working from home they want office space, remote learning room, free from distraction. It will be interesting to see if this trend continues post-pandemic.The trend away from open-plan houses was in place long before the pandemic. Ref: "Death to the Open Floor Plan Long Live Separate Rooms" (August 2018) https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-08-06/death-to-the-open-floor-plan-long-live-separate-rooms The pandemic has simply accelerated it.
But whatever happens in bigger houses, an open-concept floorplan is the most practical design for sub-500 sq ft apartment because of it's flexibility.
ApatheticNoMore
3-1-21, 1:56pm
Of course I've lived in studio apartments, two of them. But they do get to actually feel claustrophobic compared to a one bedroom, mostly having much less to do with looks, but because they lack the novelty of being able to change rooms and more so if they are small rather than large studios (having tried one of each but the small one was also rather dumpy as well, so there is that), which I realize may sound absurd (the novelty of changing rooms LOL!), but is a real thing, so I base it on how I remember them feeling, of course it's subjective.
But honestly if it was going to reduce my rent by leaps and bounds I'd be pretty open to it (still need a kitchen, don't consider that optional, so this place has a small kitchen but I've toured apartments without) but I don't see it as particularly likely, other things have much more to do with the cost of rent.
GeorgeParker
3-1-21, 2:00pm
Some people are home so little during the week with working that when the weekends come they want to enjoy their home. If they have children they want to spend time with them not running around. We often did errands during the week so weekends were free for relaxing. This is also a great time to have friends over for dinner or in nice weather have friends over for a barbecue outside.I've already said that tiny apartments aren't suitable for some people or even most people, but that has nothing to do with whether or not this is a good design for people who do choose to live in a small space.
GeorgeParker
3-1-21, 2:04pm
I don't spend most of my weekends away from home. Pandemic or not. I just don't. Spending most of your time out of the house sounds like a good lifestyle for a 20 something or thereabouts. But I'm not a 20 something.
What's the point of living in these super cramped spaces anyway? Is there a belief they are significantly cheaper? I don't think it actually works like that. There are no great savings to be had there over a normal apartment (even a place with no kitchen at all will only save a small amount). I don't think it's something people really do if they really need to reduce rents, what people might do: location in an area may make a difference but there starts to be a tradeoff with commutes and other things, roommates is an obvious one, you can try to find a place with rent control but that only limits increases, beyond that more extreme stuff: renting a couch off someone else rather than a room or renting your couch, living in a garage etc..
It looks nice of course, but never choose a place to live based on looks, that's house flipper nonsense, to fix up the looks and think it matters oh so much. Choose it on is it practical to actually live there. A squishy bed right by the window is too much light to sleep. The fridge is tiny, I'm sure it would work if you went to the store every other day but if not ... etc..Those are valid points. But I'm not arguing either in favor or against tiny dwellings, even though several people seem to think I am. I'm just admiring the design of this specific tiny apartment.
Some of it is reusing older housing stock. This one was a 1960s building. The apartment already existed. They just redid it.
Then there’s the thinking that smaller spaces use less energy, etc.
I am not enough of a minimalist to live in a space like that, and I do need my outdoor space, but that doesn't mean I cannot appreciate it for what it is.
Some people are home so little during the week with working that when the weekends come they want to enjoy their home. If they have children they want to spend time with them not running around. We often did errands during the week so weekends were free for relaxing. This is also a great time to have friends over for dinner or in nice weather have friends over for a barbecue outside.
I also find myself trying to get certain errands done during the week just so it frees up some of my weekend time. Not saying I'd stay home or go out, but just to have time for other options.
I am not enough of a minimalist to live in a space like that, and I do need my outdoor space, but that doesn't mean I cannot appreciate it for what it is.
I'm TRYING to be more of a minimalist and I love looking at places like this. But - maybe because I still have so much stuff - I keep wondering... where are the pens? Where is the mail? Where are all the chargers and power strips? To answer my own questions - these people are probably just way more organized than I am right now. :)
Something else to consider is that this apartment is in Sydney, Australia. I daresay most countries’ average living space is much smaller than that in the US. I’d be interested to learn what the average space for an urban apartment is in Australia.
I’ve seen dinky apartments in Chicago in lakefront neighborhoods.
I'm TRYING to be more of a minimalist and I love looking at places like this. But - maybe because I still have so much stuff - I keep wondering... where are the pens? Where is the mail? Where are all the chargers and power strips? To answer my own questions - these people are probably just way more organized than I am right now. :)
Many people are quite paperless with regards to mail. I'm sure the apartment was really cleaned up and emptied out before the video was made. I don't even remember if there were clothes in the closet.
If I didn't have all my dive gear, I COULD live in a place like that. I looked up the square footage of my current place (rented condo) from realtor ads for units in the same complex. About 700sqft. There are a lot of oddly shaped corners that create some unusable space. I would want a washer/dryer and dishwasher, though.
I like looking at the studio apartment tours section on Apartment Therapy.
https://www.apartmenttherapy.com/house-tours/studio
ApatheticNoMore
3-1-21, 2:24pm
But - maybe because I still have so much stuff - I keep wondering... where are the pens? Where is the mail? Where are all the chargers and power strips? To answer my own questions - these people are probably just way more organized than I am right now
well there is no actual computer setup at all.
well there is no actual computer setup at all.
Many people don't have desktop PCs at home anymore. They have laptops. Until I started working from home last year, I just used my laptop in bed or in a chair in the LR. No computer set up.
ApatheticNoMore
3-1-21, 2:34pm
Ok I looked up another apartment for rent in this same building: 560 and another at 550 sq ft, so this apartment is about that size probably, a good size, but storage is still a struggle.
Teacher Terry
3-1-21, 2:57pm
This was a decision I just recently made and decided 855 was as low as I could go. I know from 25 years ago I was happy in that size.
We stayed last winter in a 1 bedroom mobile home. It worked because the bedroom and living areas were at opposite ends and there were 2 doors between as a noise buffer. The area shown here would be hard IMO to have 2 people living comfortably. I think it would even be too minimal for one person. I know I sure wouldn't want to live there.
GeorgeParker
3-1-21, 3:16pm
I could be perfectly happy in 800-1200 square feet, but the looks, setting, view a property provides is always of paramount consideration for me.In the 1940s-1960s, 800-1200 sq ft was a typical 3-bedroom, 1-bath house. In fact all the houses in my neighborhood were built in 1963 and are 1000-1100 sq ft plus an attached single car garage which makes a total of 1200-1300 sq ft.
Many people are quite paperless with regards to mail. I'm sure the apartment was really cleaned up and emptied out before the video was made. I don't even remember if there were clothes in the closet.
If I didn't have all my dive gear, I COULD live in a place like that. I looked up the square footage of my current place (rented condo) from realtor ads for units in the same complex. About 700sqft. There are a lot of oddly shaped corners that create some unusable space. I would want a washer/dryer and dishwasher, though.
Yes, I understand paperless for bills, etc. and I have a laptop, but it is on a desk and the desk has a pen cup and pad for notes, etc. Again, I think I still have too much stuff. lol. I agree about a washer/dryer!!! But I haven't had a dishwasher for about 28 years and could forego one over storage for something else.
GeorgeParker
3-1-21, 3:22pm
I wonder if the design includes creature comforts, such as...Dish washer"Dish Drawer" is Australian for an apartment-sized dishwasher. So yes, it has one.
GeorgeParker
3-1-21, 3:26pm
well there is no actual computer setup at all.There is no visible computer setup. Given how organized they are, their computers are probably a couple of laptops neatly stowed away in the under-bed drawers when not in use.
the bedroom would stop me...crawling from the foot to the head every time you get in and out of bed would get old quickly. It is a beautiful space and looks so peaceful and bright, but not for me. Thanks for sharing it George.
I like looking at the studio apartment tours section on Apartment Therapy.
https://www.apartmenttherapy.com/house-tours/studio
Thank you for posting this Tradd, great site! I could totally live in this one:
https://www.apartmenttherapy.com/minimal-and-natural-500-square-foot-studio-apartment-photos-36873228
George, I like the way the wooden screening door slides in the one you posted; very nice!
GeorgeParker
3-1-21, 6:40pm
George, I like the way the wooden screening door slides in the one you posted; very nice!Thank you. I like it being suspended from the ceiling on barn-door hardware so it moves back and forth easily.
Teacher Terry
3-1-21, 9:00pm
Most of the secure buildings have laundry rooms versus in the units. In my previous condo I bought a apartment dryer that vents into a bucket of water. Then I would wash in the common room and dry at my leisure. With just myself I don’t think I will bother.
Nope. I'm no longer of young stock to crawl up from the foot of the bed. I don't want to have to sit in the bed for hubster and I to have some space away from each other. No space for quilting detritus. Not even enough space to set up a sewing station.
Even if I lived alone, too small.
ApatheticNoMore
3-2-21, 1:47am
I snuck into (it's open to the public) the apt for rent in this building and bf said it's smaller than mine, especially the bedroom. So maybe mine's a bit bigger. Ok it's serviceable, this is serviceable (ok I like mine a lot and would be a bit sad if I decided to move for whatever good reason), building was built in the 60s, so no apartments back then were not actually the size of closets :)
I see no need for my own washer/dryer except when cursed people leave in a dryer sheet contaminating all my clothes with those awful chemicals. I debate buying one of those wooden things to hang clothes inside in summer sometimes.
I've been thinking more about this. I know people who do spend large portions of their weekends away from home weekends even during the winter, but they tend to live in the country and have lots of room for gear - sheds for snowmobiles, trailers to haul ice fishing huts, space indoors for cross country skis, etc.
Teacher Terry
3-2-21, 11:34am
I don’t dry most of my clothes except for sheets, towels, pj’s and undies. I also use washable potty pads for the dogs and will probably stop. I hate the thought of using disposable ones but will have to.
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