View Full Version : Is There or Is There Not a Border Crisis?
It seems so hard to establish even basic fact. On the one hand we hear about swarms of would-be new residents overwhelming border facilities. On the other, we’re told it’s just a seasonal fluctuation. The exclusion of press from certain places does seem indicative that something is going on.
iris lilies
3-26-21, 12:13pm
I have no idea.
Up here in mid aMerica, it doesn’t affect my life so I do my best to not pay attention.
It should be no big surprise that after the Trump hard core rhetoric there is a belief that Biden will be easier on border crossings. And that they were not prepared for the obvious. How much of a crisis it is and how bad it is relative to humanitarian issues with Trump is hard to tell. There are too many self-interests telling their side. Unlike IL I figure were are all in the bus together, regardless of international borders and how safe I feel at home (or in King Soopers). So I do care, but probably not a lot of significance that I can do about it.
Yes. There are recurring crises at the border and we have one now. To me a crisis is when we cannot accommodate all the people being let in and have to send some to ad hoc overflow centers.
I'm looking out the window at the northern border right now, and it seems calmer than usual.
YMMV down there in the South. I have no idea what to believe on the topic down there, as most of the information sources seem suspect.
I think there's been a crisis at our border for years, the only difference in my mind is that there is now an implied promise to accept any and every one who shows up regardless of immigration law and our new administration's adamant refusal to acknowledge making the situation worse. The level of secrecy being imposed on Border Control agents and lack of media access to facilities and immigrants is telling.
frugal-one
3-26-21, 3:53pm
I think there's been a crisis at our border for years, the only difference in my mind is that there is now an implied promise to accept any and every one who shows up regardless of immigration law and our new administration's adamant refusal to acknowledge making the situation worse. The level of secrecy being imposed on Border Control agents and lack of media access to facilities and immigrants is telling.
From all accounts this is not a true statement. Biden stated unattended children will not be left to their own defenses. The media is reporting and showing facilities. I don't know where you are getting your news/reports.
Like others here have mentioned, this has been a problem for a long time. IMO trump made it worse by totally having people camped out at the border. That alone made the impact greater.
From all accounts this is not a true statement. Biden stated unattended children will not be left to their own defenses. The media is reporting and showing facilities. I don't know where you are getting your news/reports.
They allowed one reporter and one camera in a few days ago after bowing to pressure to do so. I think that was probably smart of them since this is basically a public relations move to convince us that conditions are improved over the last administration and I'm sure it took a while to set up the shots they wanted. I think they're still forbidding Customs and Border personnel from answering questions though.
I think they're still forbidding Customs and Border personnel from answering questions though.
I know in my agency, we are required to punt any questions to our Public Information Officer.
frugal-one
3-26-21, 5:00pm
They allowed one reporter and one camera in a few days ago after bowing to pressure to do so. I think that was probably smart of them since this is basically a public relations move to convince us that conditions are improved over the last administration and I'm sure it took a while to set up the shots they wanted. I think they're still forbidding Customs and Border personnel from answering questions though.
Where are you getting this information?
And, yes, (life Bae) when I worked for the government I was told to refer all political questions to the proper department.... as I am sure all businesses do.
Where are you getting this information?
Lots of places, here's a few.
Media gets first look inside a migrant holding facility at U.S.-Mexico border - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/migrant-holding-facility-us-mexico-border/)
Biden Admin To Allow One TV Camera Into Child Migrant Holding Facility In Texas | The Daily Caller (https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/joe-biden-one-camera-allowed-hhs-facility-immigrant-children-border/)
Jen Psaki defends decision to send press into better migrant shelter (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/biden-administration-finally-letting-cameras-into-border-facility/ar-BB1eUWau?ocid=BingNewsSearch)
It should be no big surprise that after the Trump hard core rhetoric there is a belief that Biden will be easier on border crossings. And that they were not prepared for the obvious. How much of a crisis it is and how bad it is relative to humanitarian issues with Trump is hard to tell.
88000 crossed in 2019. This is not a Biden problem, it's a long term issue.
88000 crossed in 2019. This is not a Biden problem, it's a long term issue.
I've seen different versions depending on the source. This is what CNN says.
"All of that could set 2021 on track to exceed 2019 in the number of people apprehended at the border. Just over 100,000 people were encountered last month, 24,000 more than in February 2019. And the number of unaccompanied children crossing the US-Mexico border in March is on pace to surpass May 2019, the highest month that year in arrests of minors."
And the wsj:
"The surge in illegal immigration (https://www.wsj.com/articles/senior-u-s-officials-visit-mexico-guatemala-to-address-migrant-surge-11616514413?mod=article_inline) across the southern U.S. border is shaping up to be the biggest in 20 years. Unlike migrant surges in 2019 and 2014, which were predominantly made up of Central American families and unaccompanied children, so far this one is being driven by individual adults.
The Washington post is calling it a seasonal pattern.
88000 crossed in 2019. This is not a Biden problem, it's a long term issue.
Oh, it was much higher than that. In FY '19 there were approximately 850,000 people caught crossing the southern border illegally, with approximately 375,000 of those being released into the United States with notices to appear in immigration court. I would think the 88K number would be those who followed immigration law and entered legally.
https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/special-reports/legal-immigration
Federal law for asylum seekers has existed for a very long time. 88k crossed in 2019. This is not a Biden problem. This happens constantly. A little light reading. It's so easy to find information on this issue.
https://www.rescue.org/article/what-happens-asylum-seekers-stranded-us-mexico-border
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/03/05/mexico-abuses-against-asylum-seekers-us-border
https://www.hhs.gov/programs/social-services/unaccompanied-children/latest-uc-data-fy2020/index.html
. This is not a Biden problem.
https://www.rescue.org/article/what-happens-asylum-seekers-stranded-us-mexico-border
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/03/05/mexico-abuses-against-asylum-seekers-us-border
https://www.hhs.gov/programs/social-services/unaccompanied-children/latest-uc-data-fy2020/index.html
Long standing immigration or illegal immigration did not start with Biden, but I don't think your references address whether the problem has grown under Biden and are a result of his real or perceived policies. And if the humanitarian issues such as overcrowding of the facilities are problematic because of this. Trump is also on the common records for ignoring humanitarian problems at the border.
It's Biden's watch now and it's his problem. Whether he's made it worse or better is debatable.
People have a legal right and a legal system to seek asylum here in the U.S., but as another poster pointed out, fleeing from domestic violence at home, or gang violence in your neighborhood, isn't really what asylum was meant to be used for. A "guest worker" system might be useful for those who want to work here for economic reasons. But all these unaccompanied minors - wow, what an insoluble issue! There are kids as young as 7 coming across alone - do they ALL have legal family here?? Before we turn them over to their legal family here, how can we be sure that's their true family? Should we be setting up refugee camps and orphanages? That's really uncomfortable...shades of Japanese internment camps! But we simply can't keep having the Border Patrol drive a bunch of people/families to a small town in the middle of nowhere and drop them off at a public park in a town with no hospital, no shelters (as has been happening). We can't ask foster parents to take them in, when we don't have enough foster parents for the children already in the foster care system. Yes, it looks like this is an ongoing crisis, and will continue to be, world-wide, with people leaving countries in Latin America coming to the U.S., and people leaving countries in Africa and the Middle East going to Europe.
People have a legal right and a legal system to seek asylum here in the U.S., but as another poster pointed out, fleeing from domestic violence at home, or gang violence in your neighborhood, isn't really what asylum was meant to be used for. A "guest worker" system might be useful for those who want to work here for economic reasons. But all these unaccompanied minors - wow, what an insoluble issue! There are kids as young as 7 coming across alone - do they ALL have legal family here?? Before we turn them over to their legal family here, how can we be sure that's their true family? Should we be setting up refugee camps and orphanages? That's really uncomfortable...shades of Japanese internment camps! But we simply can't keep having the Border Patrol drive a bunch of people/families to a small town in the middle of nowhere and drop them off at a public park in a town with no hospital, no shelters (as has been happening). We can't ask foster parents to take them in, when we don't have enough foster parents for the children already in the foster care system. Yes, it looks like this is an ongoing crisis, and will continue to be, world-wide, with people leaving countries in Latin America coming to the U.S., and people leaving countries in Africa and the Middle East going to Europe.
Total agreement from me. I have no answers while my compassion runs deep for those wanting a better life. Because I am an immigrant for that reason, I totally relate.
iris lilies
3-27-21, 11:18am
Total agreement from me. I have no answers while my compassion runs deep for those wanting a better life. Because I am an immigrant for that reason, I totally relate.
You can have all the compassion you like. Go for it.
Emotion shouldn’t be overriding laws here. Those of us who live in United States expecting reasonable enforcement of reasonable laws seem to be the brunt of your posts—is that what you intend? Perhaps it is not. Policies emanating from the
White House are a big factor in this issue. Our President gets to fix this whole situation, lucky him!
Immigration laws that take into account asylum circumstances seem like reasonable laws to me. Are they reasonable to you? Should there be any immigration restrictions in your mind?
You can have all the compassion you like. Go for it.
Emotion shouldn’t be overriding laws here. Those of us who live in United States expecting reasonable enforcement of reasonable laws seem to be the brunt of your posts—is that what you intend? Perhaps it is not. Policies emanating from the
White House are a big factor in this issue. Our President gets to fix this whole situation, lucky him!
Immigration laws that take into account asylum circumstances seem like reasonable laws to me. Are they reasonable to you? Should there be any immigration restrictions in your mind?
I have sited asylum law multiple times on this forum. I do not encourage or support illegal entry. I shared my own story of immigration. Why is it you think otherwise of me?
Yes, I am a compassionate person. Not a fault IMO.
iris lilies
3-27-21, 12:32pm
I have sited asylum law multiple times on this forum. I do not encourage or support illegal entry. I shared my own story of immigration. Why is it you think otherwise of me?
Yes, I am a compassionate person. Not a fault IMO.
The laws and policies won’t fix it, but I guess the whole system has to constantly try.
By “taking into account asylum issues” I mean consideration of circumstances, not wholesale relaxation of all entry limits. That means many people, hundreds of thousands of them, for whom you have compassion will not be able to enter the
U. S. Ever.
Is that ok with you?
Compassion doesn’t override logical decision making, in my value structure anyway. We can certainly have compassion for persons in dire circumstances but still not allow them into the United States.
It is interesting to me that The Netherlands was not a good place for your family. Are there reasons for that? I thought The Netherlands was one of those desirable socialist countries we are supposed to emulate.
I don't think many of the refugees actually fit the usual asylum requirements. They are fleeing gang violence, poverty and corruption in their own countries. Some because of the hurricanes that destroyed their villages. I have to wonder where all the "teenage" minors will end up when they enter the US.
If we still had the Panama Canal Zone we might be able to accommodate some of the migrants there. We see this approach with the Rohingya who are assisted in their region rather than coming to the US.
The laws and policies won’t fix it, but I guess the whole system has to constantly try.
By “taking into account asylum issues” I mean consideration of circumstances, not wholesale relaxation of all entry limits. That means many people, hundreds of thousands of them, for whom you have compassion will not be able to enter the
U. S. Ever.
Is that ok with you?
Compassion doesn’t override logical decision making, in my value structure anyway. We can certainly have compassion for persons in dire circumstances but still not allow them into the United States.
It is interesting to me that The Netherlands was not a good place for your family. Are there reasons for that? I thought The Netherlands was one of those desirable socialist countries we are supposed to emulate.
As I shared when I shared the story, I asked Dad why we came. "We couldn't have been any poorer". 5 kids, driving truck all over Europe 6 days a week home for 30 hours from Saturday night to Monday early dark hours. We lived in a 2 room rented home. He was 39 and Mom 38. Who wouldn't take a chance on bettering that situation?
happystuff
3-27-21, 9:55pm
You can have all the compassion you like. Go for it.
Emotion shouldn’t be overriding laws here. Those of us who live in United States expecting reasonable enforcement of reasonable laws seem to be the brunt of your posts—is that what you intend? Perhaps it is not. Policies emanating from the
White House are a big factor in this issue. Our President gets to fix this whole situation, lucky him!
Immigration laws that take into account asylum circumstances seem like reasonable laws to me. Are they reasonable to you? Should there be any immigration restrictions in your mind?
In my opinion, compassion is the reason for asylum! Yes, immigration laws should take into account asylum circumstances and I agree those would/should be reasonable laws. I guess it depends on which side of those laws you are on - someone seeking asylum to a better place for whatever reason or someone already in that better place trying to regulate who else gets to join you there.
Glad I'm not the one in charge of determining these things, but still sending compassionate thoughts and hopes out to those trying to get to that "better place".
iris lilies
3-27-21, 10:12pm
As I shared when I shared the story, I asked Dad why we came. "We couldn't have been any poorer". 5 kids, driving truck all over Europe 6 days a week home for 30 hours from Saturday night to Monday early dark hours. We lived in a 2 room rented home. He was 39 and Mom 38. Who wouldn't take a chance on bettering that situation?
I’m glad your father was able to earn a better living here in the United States. I suppose the Netherlands like most of Europe was still devastated from the war. The United States was recovering but of course we had far less To recover from and certainly no destruction of cities and towns.
My mother-in-law came from Switzerland to the United States after the war because she perceived the United States was the land of opportunity. She was young and unmarried. One of her 12 siblings immigrated to the UK at the same time. All the others stayed in Switzerland. I’m sure they had a hard time of it over in Europe and the UK, but they have all ended up today o.k.
Interesting that you left the Netherlands but others including Ayaan Hirsi Ali have found refuge there. It goes to show the US doesn't have to take in everyone unhappy in their home country. One woman's trash of a country is another woman's treasure.
iris lilies
3-28-21, 8:37am
Interesting that you left the Netherlands but others including Ayaan Hirsi Ali have found refuge there. It goes to show the US doesn't have to take in everyone unhappy in their home country. One woman's trash of a country is another woman's treasure.
Immediate post war Netherlands was a different place than now.
I read Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s book too.
Interesting that you left the Netherlands but others including Ayaan Hirsi Ali have found refuge there. It goes to show the US doesn't have to take in everyone unhappy in their home country. One woman's trash of a country is another woman's treasure.
Did I call the Netherlands trash? Please don't bother to answer. Your interpretation of what people write on this forum is beyond my ability to comprehend.
Was that in 1961 while Rotterdam and much of the country were attempting to recover from WW2?
ApatheticNoMore
3-28-21, 1:28pm
Oh I have compassion for them, I never once said immigrants are bad people, never would, but hey I'm not Donald Trump.
But I think we should look at how badly resources are stretched here before letting the whole world in, which doesn't mean have zero immigration at all. But I care about quality of life in the U.S., which I know must be a sin or a thought crime or something to care about until all of Indian is lifted out of poverty or something, but how can one not, one has to live here. And some will say "how can resources be stretched, when the U.S. uses so many resources?". The U.S. uses too many natural resources in general and it's not sustainable. But I don't mean whether we have enough iphones when we insist on getting a new one every year, or even whether we waste too much food, but rather things like infrastructure, housing etc., some basic things in life that could all be very broadly classified as infrastructure, all stuff larger than individual consumer decisions, seems stretched to the breaking point.
As for whether people came here from Europe or not and what that says about contemporary Europe or the U.S., IMO not much. Europe was devastated by WWII. Even before then I can trace some ancestors who came here to escape the rigid class system in England. All very well and good, but the U.S. has one of the lowest economic mobilities in developed countries at present. That was then, this is now.
Immediate post war Netherlands was a different place than now.
I read Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s book too.
VE Day was May 8, 1945 so I would not categorize 1961 as immediate post war.
VE Day was May 8, 1945 so I would not categorize 1961 as immediate post war.
I guess you had to be there to understand. Imagine that.
I guess you had to be there to understand. Imagine that.
I suspect many Americans have no idea of what the conditions were like in Europe and the UK after the war, and how lucky we had it in the USA. Rationing in the UK didn't end until 1954, for instance.
There's a lady in a class I've been taking the past few months who grew up in the Netherlands during that time period, and her tales are quite informative.
iris lilies
3-28-21, 6:28pm
VE Day was May 8, 1945 so I would not categorize 1961 as immediate post war.
Oh man I know that things were still pretty sparse in the UK in 1961. Assume the Netherlands would be similar.
Oh man I know that things were still pretty sparse in the UK in 1961. Assume the Netherlands would be similar.
I think the rationing in the Netherlands was down to ~500 calories/adult a day by the end of the war. Tens of thousands died...from famine.
This was a fascinating article that came up in class:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5693569/
I think the rationing in the Netherlands was down to ~500 calories/adult a day by the end of the war. Tens of thousands died...from famine.
This was a fascinating article that came up in class:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5693569/
That is an interesting read. I knew it was tough in parts of Europe but not that bad.
I think the rationing in the Netherlands was down to ~500 calories/adult a day by the end of the war. Tens of thousands died...from famine.
This was a fascinating article that came up in class:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5693569/
Yes. My parents saw many die of starvation. Mom said they ate 3 meals a month at most. There were 3 adult males getting a monthly paycheck which was consumed by food to feed a family of 9.
When Red Cross dropped pallets, Mom said you ate what you grabbed even if a pound of butter. Although it seemed selfish to her, she said you were soooo hungry you did it anyway.
This went on for years.
I suspect many Americans have no idea of what the conditions were like in Europe and the UK after the war, and how lucky we had it in the USA. Rationing in the UK didn't end until 1954, for instance.
There's a lady in a class I've been taking the past few months who grew up in the Netherlands during that time period, and her tales are quite informative.
Truth. When I went back in 1979, there was still evidence of the war. The wing of the church Mom was baptized in was blown up. It still had not been reconstructed as there were other priorities. The family records were also in this wing so all was destroyed. Birth records were kept in churches not "the statehouse".
She was dying of her cancer when the Iraq war was in full swing. I had to stop turning on the 530 news as it would make her cry with memories of WW2. "I know exactly how these women feel and the fear they have."
Yes. My parents saw many die of starvation. Mom said they ate 3 meals a month at most.
The average month being 30 days this would mean people only ate one meal every 10 days. How did they not all die of starvation?
The average month being 30 days this would mean people only ate one meal every 10 days. How did they not all die of starvation?
I don't think members of American's dominant culture today have any real conception of real hunger, and its effects upon the human body. With proper hydration, people can go for months-to-years with very little caloric intake. As I showed pointers to above, the ration diet was 500 calories/day/adult, and the article I provided went into some detail on the scavenged root/berry/tasty rocks and bark diet that sustained them "enough" so that only tens-of-thousands died....
I wonder, what's the longest people here on the SLF have gone without food?
The average month being 30 days this would mean people only ate one meal every 10 days. How did they not all die of starvation?
OMG what the hell is wrong with you?
Worst I ever experienced was a time at university when my savings ran very low. Working on Saturdays, I lived on one bowl of oatmeal mixed with water in the morning and a hot dog and bun in the evening for some time. I lost so much weight, I was called into the supervisor's office to find out what was going on. I explained my budget and how much I had to live on for the next semester. Once the truth came out just before Christmas, it was arranged that I would use a renovated closet in a girls' residence for the next semester and enjoy proper meals including breakfast and dinner after class that would cost just exactly the amount that was left in my budget. That support made such a difference in my life forever as I completed the program which enabled a good living all my working years. Compassion wins!
I have never taken food for granted since and give generously to the Salvation Army food budget each year, three times as much this past year.
Worst I ever experienced was a time at university when my savings ran very low. Working on Saturdays, I lived on one bowl of oatmeal mixed with water in the morning and a hot dog and bun in the evening for some time. I lost so much weight, I was called into the supervisor's office to find out what was going on. I explained my budget and how much I had to live on for the next semester. Once the truth came out just before Christmas, it was arranged that I would use a renovated closet in a girls' residence for the next semester and enjoy proper meals including breakfast and dinner after class that would cost just exactly the amount that was left in my budget. That support made such a difference in my life forever as I completed the program which enabled a good living all my working years. Compassion wins!
I have never taken food for granted since and give generously to the Salvation Army food budget each year, three times as much this past year.
Amazing story Razz. Thank you for sharing something so personal and painful. Like you, as early as I could afford it in my working life, I started donating to our local foodbank hoping children and young adults would never have to live what my parents lived. I cannot remotely imagine eating once/week at most. We 6 kids were fed well. Garden, milk and beef butchered from the dairy farm our sponsor set up for Dad to "make it". We ate well even though I had no idea we were poor until I was nearly 8 years old.
Like you, I take nothing for granted. Again, thank you for sharing.
Teacher Terry
3-28-21, 9:17pm
I also have always helped people that have struggled because I did as a young single mom. Without my parents I would have experienced real suffering despite working full time. Thanks for sharing Gard and Razz.
My dad served in the army I. Germany during the Korean was (1951-52). Germany at that time was still incredibly hobbled from the war. I’m not surprised that much of the rest of Europe was also still struggling and would continue to do so for years.
I've lived in some awfully spartan housing including a converted garage and unfinished basement, but have never really experienced hunger. A couple of years during college I did restaurant work and got a free meal for every shift. My parents had their own hardships but were never close to some version of starvation. I've never taken food for granted.
Teacher Terry
3-29-21, 10:08am
My DIL’s family in Poland had tough times when under Russia. Her mom would stand in line all day trying to get bread or meat. The stores were mostly empty. We were there in October when they celebrated their independence. People dress up in period costumes and act out their lives back then. It’s done every year so people never forget how bad life was and how important freedom is.
happystuff
3-29-21, 10:11am
I have not experienced real hunger either. Growing up in a large family, we always had food on the table - for which I was and still am extremely grateful. Looking back, I wonder how my mother did it, but she did - bless her! Add me to the list as someone who does not take food for granted and contributes as much as I can when I can.
I know in my agency, we are required to punt any questions to our Public Information Officer.
Jen Psaki spent part of one of her press conferences explaining President Biden's position in detail. Unaccompanied minors will be allowed in and attempts will be made to reunite them with relatives or guardians. All others will be processed according to national and international law. DHS head Alejandro Mayorkas has decried the startling inhumanity of the last administration, so I trust him to curtail the brutality and gross neglect that has been endemic at the border.
Jen Psaki spent part of one of her press conferences explaining President Biden's position in detail. Unaccompanied minors will be allowed in and attempts will be made to reunite them with relatives or guardians. All others will be processed according to national and international law. DHS head Alejandro Mayorkas has decried the startling inhumanity of the last administration, so I trust him to curtail the brutality and gross neglect that has been endemic at the border.
Yes. She explained it’s not a “crisis”, it’s a “circumstance”.
Part of me wonders if all the worry over what would happen if a large number of immigrants were allowed in from countries south of us is unfounded. The last time we had a large influx of immigrants in an uncontrolled fashion and allowed them to become citizens and integrated them into society was a little over 40 years ago when the Mariel boatlift happened. Practically overnight Miami and south florida were changed forever. Forty years later the city is a hub of international business focused on trade with all of Latin America. No one would have predicted that when we decided to let any Cuban that came here become citizens. But they settled in and pursued the American dream and made it their own.
Part of me wonders if all the worry over what would happen if a large number of immigrants were allowed in from countries south of us is unfounded.
I suppose that all depends on what "large" is. 433 million people live in South America, 181 million in Central America, and 127 million in Mexico. 742 million people.
There were 1 million immigrants from Ireland from 1820 to 1845, at a time when the population of Ireland was about 7.5 million (average weighted handwave, note I stopped just as the Potato Famine data starts). 13.3% of the population. 1 million over 25 years.
Say 13.3% of the 742 million people South of us decide to freely move here. ~99 million people, over 25 years. The population of the USA today is 328 million people. The projected population of the USA in 25 years, not assuming this immigration, is 388 million.
So the new immigrants would add 99 million to that projected population, for a population of 487 million, and they would be 20.3% of the population.
gimmethesimplelife
3-30-21, 10:48am
Given that Colombia has taken in 1.5 million migrants and has given them access to education, health care, work permits, and ten years authoriization to rem
gimmethesimplelife
3-30-21, 10:50am
ain in the country, no, I don't see this as a crisis. I would agree this is a challenge. Colombia has risen to it - will we? Rob
This just seems to be a natural fluctuation to me, but of course not to those poised to excoriate President Biden for deeds done and undone. Two months in, of course everything happening is his fault.
I suppose that all depends on what "large" is. 433 million people live in South America, 181 million in Central America, and 127 million in Mexico. 742 million people.
There were 1 million immigrants from Ireland from 1820 to 1845, at a time when the population of Ireland was about 7.5 million (average weighted handwave, note I stopped just as the Potato Famine data starts). 13.3% of the population. 1 million over 25 years.
Say 13.3% of the 742 million people South of us decide to freely move here. ~99 million people, over 25 years. The population of the USA today is 328 million people. The projected population of the USA in 25 years, not assuming this immigration, is 388 million.
So the new immigrants would add 99 million to that projected population, for a population of 487 million, and they would be 20.3% of the population.
Thirty years ago the US population was 248 million. 80 million less than now. Adding another 99 million over the next 25 years doesn’t necessarily sound problematic. And Mitch the even solve some problems such as providing solvency to the social security trust fund, assuming that the majority of the new immigrants were of working age.
But I also don’t think it’s a question of everyone or no one. But rather, whether the US can absorb without significant harm quite a few more immigrants from south of our border than we currently do. I don’t see any particular reason that they wouldn’t work as hard to live the American dream as anyone already here. As some people like to point out, our economy is not a zero sum prospect. Adding in a bunch more immigrants doesn’t mean less jobs to go around. It means more jobs are needed to provide goods and services to more people, and more people to come up with new business ideas that haven’t been done before.
ApatheticNoMore
3-30-21, 9:02pm
The maximum sustainable population of the U.S. is almost certainly less than we have, but the good news is birth rates are dropping, so absent unlimited immigration, it shouldn't be too hard to lower the population.
The economy may not entirely be a zero sum prospect (that would be a claim that there is zero technical progress I suppose), but many aspects of the economy are to a degree a zero sum prospects due to limited natural resources (let's see how inhabitable many places are in 25 years, but we don't even need to speculate about 25 years, the limits are now with water and so on). And though this is theoretically solvable the limits are frankly infrastructure as well (is anyone building all the new housing, new freeways etc. we will need? And if one takes issue with the reality of needing to build new freeways etc., well noone is building alternatives that are fully viable as alternatives either). But that's theoretically solvable, yes but don't be surprised if noone wants to base their policy opinions on things they have no reason to believe will happen. Because as for building new housing and infrastructure .. we can't even house the people here now, maybe do that first.
gimmethesimplelife
4-4-21, 12:31am
Apparently the little desert town of Ajo, Arizona is up in arms due to migrants being dropped there. I've been debating taking the Valley Metro bus down there to check it out - for $4 each way I can get from the far Phoenix Westside to Gila Bend and then on to Ajo, Arizona. Would be a funky cheap day trip if nothing else. Rob
I’ve been to some hot places, but nowhere as hot as Gila Bend. Used to visit a friend there from time to time, and learned a new appreciation for the icy North.
GeorgeParker
4-4-21, 3:36pm
Apparently the little desert town of Ajo, Arizona is up in arms due to migrants being dropped there.They're not "up in arms". They're just objecting to the feds suddenly deciding to dump migrants in nearby small towns instead of transporting them to distant cities that have more facilities to help them. Dumping migrants in small towns forces those small towns to pay the expense of transporting them to bigger towns -- an expense that up until now has been paid by the feds or by big-city NGOs. https://tucson.com/news/local/border-patrol-starts-releasing-migrant-families-in-ajo/article_dd25257d-b65e-5268-b8ed-8fabd3b6978b.html
gimmethesimplelife
4-5-21, 8:16am
I’ve been to some hot places, but nowhere as hot as Gila Bend. Used to visit a friend there from time to time, and learned a new appreciation for the icy North.When I've taken the shuttle from Phoenix to Yuma before, it stops in Gila Bend. On the way back, it stops at a gas station that featured really cool dinosaur statuary imported from Mexico. I myself miss Gila Bend - and won't be on this shuttle again soon. It's still in business but is only doing private rides now at $299 (!!!!!!!!!!) RT Phoenix to Yuma. Too expensive! That's one crown and leftover $ for BP meds in Algodones, MX. Rob
Kamala Harris has been assigned this crisis but is not visiting Central America for months even while she travels elsewhere. I guess when it comes to the border Joe is Biden his time.
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