View Full Version : Why don't we live together?
We have touched at different times about housing lifestyles. This CBC https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/why-don-t-we-live-together-alternative-housing-in-a-hot-real-estate-market-1.5979554 article nicely summarizes all the reasons for co-housing. It includes input from architects, researchers in co-housing around the world and social scientists as well as an author.
After living on over a 100 acres of property, I had a hard time thinking downsize and loss of privacy. I walked around condo living and walked away. Covid challenges have made me very grateful for the space to move freely around in my house and yard.
Will the cost of housing drive this trend? Would you live in a co-housing arrangement? I won't at present but may change my mind.
Quotes:
"Everyone having their own private space, their own private backyard — it's really unique in history. It's a relatively recent phenomenon," according to urbanist Diana Lind, author of Brave New Home: Our Future in Smarter, Simpler, Happier Housing.
While there's a health concern to some shared spaces right now, advocates believe that more co-living — such as group-owned houses, co-ops, rentals with common kitchens and workspaces, communes and co-housing communities — can diversify urban housing options and increase affordability.
Sharing domestic space is not as radical as it sounds. Historically, humans have lived collectively, communally and in multigenerational spaces.
It's single-family homes that are the exception.
Lind notes that they are a 20th century phenomenon, built for post-war nuclear families and the car culture of the time.
"This is not the way that we've lived for most of humanity."
She says our demographic realities now support the need for change.
The 2016 Canadian census revealed a majority of households consist of one to two people with smaller and less traditional family households on the rise. That's also true of the United States, U.K. and other European countries, as well as Japan.
Immigration and social changes have reshaped our configurations of family, too.
With the work and social future in flux, Lind argues that we need to rethink an urban housing supply that she said is designed for the past.
A network of communal living houses in San Francisco, the Haight Street Commons, has been a special focus for Bhatia and Steinmuller.
More than a dozen Victorian houses and warehouses have been converted into hundreds of rental rooms with substantial common space.
They also share an intentional approach to living.
Steinmuller said these "communes 2.0" differ in some ways from their 1960s ancestors. "
There’s nothing preventing people from creating communal living situations if they want to; except perhaps zoning in some areas. For the most part they don’t want to. I have lived in dorms, barracks and shared apartments, but didn’t particularly enjoy it. I prefer to make my own rules.
Teacher Terry
4-11-21, 4:41pm
No way would I do it. I am a extrovert and think it would be a living hell.
I'm with LDAHL, though I can see the inevitability of some kind of shared housing in my future--maybe a condo. Teacher Terry's "living hell" pretty much sums up my take on it, as well.
"This is not the way that we've lived for most of humanity." is not a compelling reason for me to live like the Golden Girls.
I am a extrovert and think it would be a living hell.
I'm an introvert and I think this would be a living hell too. In every group situation I've been a part of, there's at least one faction that takes advantage of, or is loud/disrespectful of the rules or some other kind of annoying. From taking up more than their fair share of space, to ugly gossiping, to assuming others will pick up their slack, to always asking for favors but never granting them. It goes on and on. I like having the ability to walk away from that nonsense.
When I am old and infirm I may not have the choice about communal/congregate living, but until then, no thanks.
iris lilies
4-11-21, 5:06pm
People have enough trouble “living together” in apartment houses and condo buildings. Following a set of rules seems to be a problem.
Hell, we have nearly weekly discussions about acrimony in household living arrangements with people we are related to by birth or marriage.
Since demographics indicate households are becoming smaller, maybe builders should consider offering more small houses rather than social engineers trying to talk us all into co-housing. Given a choice, I would prefer a small house on a small lot to condo living, but those are next to non-existent around here.
In my ideal living situation, I'd have a small (~1000 sq. ft. or less) cabin with basic functions, on a larger plot of land shared with other members of my "tribe" with communal larger-scale cooking facilities, entertainment facilities, workshops, farmland/gardens, shared tools/vehicles, and so on.
I tried to create such a community with like-minded friends in the Santa Cruz mountains of CA in the 1980s, but zoning forbid it.
The key above was "tribe" - I doubt it would be at all interesting to me, or pleasant, if the people in the community were random folks.
Friends of mine and I fantasize about having a "compound," turning up unaffordable plots of land with massive dwellings. I always say I'll take a trailer on the back forty.
Teacher Terry
4-11-21, 7:08pm
I have lived in 2 condo complexes that were pleasant experiences. The lady from the title company said she has friends where I will live and they love it. All 3 are older complexes by the same builder and they are very soundproof.
I think I’d hate to live with other people. Love it on my own. I’ve always been an apt dweller. It’s ok
catherine
4-11-21, 10:35pm
I'm with bae. It's interesting to see how repulsive the idea of communal living is to people. There is some set of perceptions at play--I'm not sure what, in fact, I'm interested in hearing from both Terry and herbgeek why cohousing would be "a living hell." Is that true even if the choosing were as bae described: with people with common interests sharing land and common facilities like community halls but living in their own homes? I don't find that distasteful at all.
I spent a lot of time with my inlaws and I lived with them for about 5 months when DH and I were waiting for our house to go through in the '80s: I lived in a single family dwelling with my MIL, my grandmother-in-law, grandfather-in-law, great-uncle in law, MIL and BIL.
There was routine, conversation, division of labor, shared experiences.. it was not half bad, and there was much that was very good about it. I'm amazed at our American "rugged individualism" is, and how pervasive is the idea that "hell is other people".
I'm not saying I would live in a cohousing situation, but I'm open to it.
ApatheticNoMore
4-12-21, 1:22am
I'm with bae. It's interesting to see how repulsive the idea of communal living is to people. There is some set of perceptions at play--I'm not sure what, in fact, I'm interested in hearing from both Terry and herbgeek why cohousing would be "a living hell." Is that true even if the choosing were as bae described: with people with common interests sharing land and common facilities like community halls but living in their own homes? I don't find that distasteful at all.
it's not at all, I'd go for it, but sharing an actual home with anyone is problematic of course.
rosarugosa
4-12-21, 5:28am
I like the idea as Bae describes it.
I was more talking about having to live with relatives you’re not thrilled of. The thought of having to live with my toxic parents, for example, would be hell.
I've always fantasized about shared living if I were single and less physically able than I am now, with a shared kitchen and my own room and bath, kind of like college, I guess.
Oh, and I would need a little terrier and a lot of bookcases, and my sewing machine.
I like the idea as Bae describes it.
Me too. I'm your basic introvert and like the idea of maintaining some privacy and having my own space and single level housing, but with some options for more communal interactions. Not every place I've looked at fit that bill.
A few years ago I looked into co-housing projects in the state. There are actually several, but I never found one that was a perfect fit. This one was close. Ridgeway is a small town, slightly touristy, longer winters, and somewhat isolated from any city shopping and medical facilities. Very pretty location.
https://alpenglowcohousing.org/
rosarugosa
4-12-21, 8:14am
Rogar: That looks like a really cool community. Any idea what the homes are going for? I do wonder about the whole consensus decision making model. I mean, it certainly sounds lovely, but how well can it work with real live human beings?
Rogar: That looks like a really cool community. Any idea what the homes are going for? I do wonder about the whole consensus decision making model. I mean, it certainly sounds lovely, but how well can it work with real live human beings?
Gee.. again, I'm interested in how doubtful people are that human beings can co-exist! :). I imagine that decision-making would be made the same way that town decisions are made, or HOA decisions are made, or even how State and Federal decisions are made.
The opposite of communal life is what I had in New Jersey--living as---le to belly-button with your neighbor but barely even seeing them for decades. Everyone has a different expectation and tolerance level for interactions with neighbors, but for me, I've learned through my VT experience that people can get along and work for common goals. Getting the right people might be like winning the lottery, but I'll take that chance. I'd have no problem navigating the idiosyncrasies of human personalities to get a wider "family"
herbgeek why cohousing would be "a living hell."
I mentioned some of them in my post. I get stressed being around pushy personalities, and often have a tough time coming up with phrasing in the moment when someone asks me to do something beyond my comfort level. I feel resentment if I feel I'm always the one being imposed upon. In work and college projects, I often felt like I was carrying the load because of my overly developed sense of obligation. There have been many times people have used my good nature to their own ends. I don't like drama and avoid it like the plague.
Having to live closely with people who stress me out and be in the midst of drama a lot is my idea of hell.
ETA: plus in every group, there's that one person who thinks they should be in charge. And that everyone should go along with their ideas without challenge. I have often found that the person who insists on being in charge is often not the person who should be in charge, if in fact, the situation needs someone to be "in charge" at all.
I mentioned some of them in my post. I get stressed being around pushy personalities, and often have a tough time coming up with phrasing in the moment when someone asks me to do something beyond my comfort level. I feel resentment if I feel I'm always the one being imposed upon. In work and college projects, I often felt like I was carrying the load because of my overly developed sense of obligation. There have been many times people have used my good nature to their own ends. I don't like drama and avoid it like the plague.
Yeah, I agree with you on all counts. I'm very similar. I guess I imagine cohousing in an environment where you have your own home but share some things in common like gardens or community halls as not having the same type of constant demands as living together as roommates or housemates would for instance. I would not like a housemate and would only do it if I couldn't afford anything else.
I mentioned some of them in my post. I get stressed being around pushy personalities, and often have a tough time coming up with phrasing in the moment when someone asks me to do something beyond my comfort level. I feel resentment if I feel I'm always the one being imposed upon. In work and college projects, I often felt like I was carrying the load because of my overly developed sense of obligation. There have been many times people have used my good nature to their own ends. I don't like drama and avoid it like the plague.
Having to live closely with people who stress me out and be in the midst of drama a lot is my idea of hell.
You have described exactly living with my brothers. Yikes.
Could what Bae is describing could be addressed by communal living with some man-cave and she-sheds for privacy? In the Guardian httpains://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/apr/11/me-and-my-she-shed-women-on-discovering-what-a-life-saver-theier-own-private-shed-can-be?utm_term=2a9195e34b53480a98ad8cc596b762f6&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/apr/11/me-and-my-she-shed-women-on-discovering-what-a-life-saver-theier-own-private-shed-can-be?utm_term=2a9195e34b53480a98ad8cc596b762f6&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email) article different women describe their efforts to gain some privacy for their own needs -author, jewelry creation, artist and just space for oneself.
I agree that often someone dominates in any group whether it is overwhelming or just a nuisance is determined by the balance of the group "going along just to get along" which then enables a near dictatorship by the one over time. I am part of a group of seven women who in normal times get together regularly. One who held a strong managership position before her retirement tries to organize every detail at times. I am the only one who protests occasionally and she then steps back. She seems to need to be dominant. I would find her exhausting 24/7 although I love her as a friend.
Even if I had a little space to retreat to, I think I would have a problem living in the equivalent of the office break room. It probably doesn’t reflect well on me that I’m so selfish about my privacy and not wanting to compromise my habits with other people’s. It can be difficult enough living with people I love, much less anyone else.
Rogar: That looks like a really cool community. Any idea what the homes are going for? I do wonder about the whole consensus decision making model. I mean, it certainly sounds lovely, but how well can it work with real live human beings?
I've not seen any indication of prices on the web site. It's not all that far from Telluride, which is a millionaire Aspen sort of ski town, but at one time Ridgeway was just a sleepy little stop over to the more popular places. Probably medium expensive. It looked to me like a lot of the communal activities were optional. I think the big cons for me were how closely the lots were spaced, distance from medical facilities, and the longer winters. Good for a younger person who is into winter sports. My thermoregulation system doesn't work as well as it once did.
It is close to some of the pretty places I've ever visited though.
iris lilies
4-12-21, 10:02am
Gee.. again, I'm interested in how doubtful people are that human beings can co-exist! :). I imagine that decision-making would be made the same way that town decisions are made, or HOA decisions are made, or even how State and Federal decisions are made.
The opposite of communal life is what I had in New Jersey--living as---le to belly-button with your neighbor but barely even seeing them for decades. Everyone has a different expectation and tolerance level for interactions with neighbors, but for me, I've learned through my VT experience that people can get along and work for common goals. Getting the right people might be like winning the lottery, but I'll take that chance. I'd have no problem navigating the idiosyncrasies of human personalities to get a wider "family"
Suburbia is awful. It is a common theme here in my walkable city neighborhood that new people move in and say something to the effect “when I lived in Suburb X I never talked to our neighbors, but within a month here I had met all nearby neighbors and kept seeing them around the neighborhood, so we feel as though we know many people!”
One thing that strikes me when I read about co-housing and why it isn’t for me is this:
When I choose a place to live, one element I find important, even tho I didn’t think about it at the time, is that I join a tribe of like-minded people. This seems to be true with my condo—many people there have this old building as their second home, they love and respect the old building, and frankly most of them are old themselves, like me.
Hermann is a bit different in that there is a WIDE variety of ages and family situations on our block, but we know people there already. It is true that most are there because they have family roots there, they are not quaint-chasers like us. But there are plenty of people in wider Hermann who are there for the cuteness.
So, with a typical co-housing situation, I feel that I would not fit in, this would not be my tribe, because people who move there are all about the shared experience of wonderful HUMAN INTERACTION and they want to get cozy and social with those HUMANs. For them, it is about the HUMAN experience. Those people are not my tribe!
My tribe values the built environment. It likes handsome old buildings and it works to restore and maintain them.
This is probably a simplistic view of people who gravitate toward co-housing, but it is my view. They are not my peeps and I do not want to live with them!
Perhaps unfairly, I look askance at the "crunchy granola" stereotype that co-housers have.
In defense of suburbs, I've lived in two that were pretty walkable, though Bellevue is more likely classed an edge city. One of the many advantages they have is that one can be as private as one desires. You have to be intrepid to walk here (the town center is a mile or more away)--outside of "walking to nowhere," as my friend describes it.
I'm still chuckling over "This is not the way that we've lived for most of humanity." For most of human history, we lived like monkeys. :laff: I, for one, am happy we evolved and are able to enjoy computers and sanitation.
sweetana3
4-12-21, 10:23am
Iris we are sisters. I lived in a NC suburban hell for 3 years. Only really knew my neighbor since we were the only two people we could find in our whole subdivision who did not work or have a bunch of kids. Really bad demographic for me. A huge downside is there was no place to walk except around the subdivision and driving was required for everything. Now we live in an urban downtown historic area although ours is mixed and with more SFHomes and commercial than the surrounding ones. I love the area and my neighbors and rarely drive. All ages with some retired empty nesters, walkable downtown and to all kinds of attractions since the city built up around a core.
Cohousing was my big interest in the late 90s when it started to boom. Actually investigated Eno Commons in NC and probably would still live in NC if we had bought there. They were SFhomes of a nice size and great community resources. But it was not to be. Now after a lot of research, I think my expectations were unrealistic and cohousing requires too much "closeness" for me. Or maybe it would force me to change? Dont know but after many years of following the movement I did not like what I was seeing.
dado potato
4-12-21, 10:30am
I would be open to co-housing, provided that the communication among residents was compassionate and non-violent... rather than "a living hell".
I am also curious about the Village-to-Village Network as an alternative for people of riper years, to serve their needs as they age in place in their own established homes. http://vtvnetwork.org
A wide variety of local non-profit organizations facilitate shared housing. The website of the National Shared Housing Resource Center (NSHRC) lists member organizations in CA, CO, FL, IL, LA, MD, MA, MI, NJ, NY, NC, OR, PA, TX, VT and WA. http://nationalsharedhousing.org/program-directory
iris lilies
4-12-21, 10:46am
Perhaps unfairly, I look askance at the "crunchy granola" stereotype that co-housers have.
it.
yes...you said it in a few words, I took paragraphs to say it.
people who like people are not my kind of people and I do not want to live with them!
yes...you said it in a few words, I took paragraphs to say it.
people who like people are not my kind of people and I do not want to live with them!
That's why I chose editing; if I were paid by the word, I'd starve to death.
Perhaps unfairly, I look askance at the "crunchy granola" stereotype that co-housers have.
In defense of suburbs, I've lived in two that were pretty walkable, though Bellevue is more likely classed an edge city. One of the many advantages they have is that one can be as private as one desires. You have to be intrepid to walk here (the town center is a mile or more away)--outside of "walking to nowhere," as my friend describes it.
I agree on both counts. I wouldn’t want any portion of my life determined by a committee of later day hippies seeking affiliation and status.
I also like a nice suburban neighborhood and have no problem with newer, plainer housing. I wouldn’t want to wear my grandfather’s clothes, and see no attraction to living in my grandfather’s house. But I’m just a philistine about stuff like that.
I don't mind so much the crunchy granola stereotype as long as it doesn't get too touchy feely hippie dippy. Community drum ceremonies are probably a bad sign. I would mind the exclusion of the other diverse groups that make life interesting. Sort of the same reason I object to gated communities.
iris lilies
4-12-21, 11:49am
I don't mind so much the crunchy granola stereotype as long as it doesn't get too touchy feely hippie dippy. Community drum ceremonies are probably a bad sign. I would mind the exclusion of the other diverse groups that make life interesting. Sort of the same reason I object to gated communities.
We like to make fun of the planned community “New Town” out in the suburban hinterlands. They build faux Victorians. They actually used as their initial advertising image, and this is God’s Truth, a photo of my neighborhood to advertise their planned community before they actually had anything built.
My first view of New Town was a surreal experience. Here on the horizon were Victorian looking structures rising out of the Prairie. Wtf is that!
There it’s not cohousing of course. It is an attempt to build something walkable, a nice place without all of the inconveniences of urban living because well, they don’t have that urban population.
iris lilies
4-12-21, 11:52am
I don't mind so much the crunchy granola stereotype as long as it doesn't get too touchy feely hippie dippy. Community drum ceremonies are probably a bad sign. I would mind the exclusion of the other diverse groups that make life interesting. Sort of the same reason I object to gated communities.
I imagine crunchy granola people to welcome diversity. Of course it is only diversity that can afford to buy into that planned community at $482,000. Or whatever the high buyin fee is. That right there eliminates most undesirable elements of “diversity. “Unless they have section 8 residents. Ha ha Ha. Ha Hah Hah Hah Hah Hah Hah. Yeah, would like to see that happen.
iris lilies
4-12-21, 11:57am
I agree on both counts. I wouldn’t want any portion of my life determined by a committee of later day hippies seeking affiliation and status.
I also like a nice suburban neighborhood and have no problem with newer, plainer housing. I wouldn’t want to wear my grandfather’s clothes, and see no attraction to living in my grandfather’s house. But I’m just a philistine about stuff like that.
Be careful, if you live long enough your standard house well may become an object worth preservation fervor.
1960’s ranches are all the rage and I am watching the trend to see when 1970s splits take over as the coolest thing to preserve.
Me, I draw the line at 1970. I will not live in anything built after 1970. Unless in my fantasy it would be something that I have built and then it would have high ceilings and nice millwork and etc.
IL, the planned community you describe sounds like Habersham in Beaufort--basically it's faux Charleston on a marsh.
https://habershamsc.com/
Bae's idea would be good but I need an extensive walkable community, ready access to commercial suppliers of groceries, personal services, etc. There is something to the idea of one's tribe but I need diversity of ages, etc. The Villages in Florida seems to be a success for a large population but would that be considered co-housing? What makes it work?
IL, the planned community you describe sounds like Habersham in Beaufort--basically it's faux Charleston on a marsh.
https://habershamsc.com/
That does sound like a lovely spot.
ApatheticNoMore
4-12-21, 12:55pm
I don't mind crunchy granola really, I like counter-cultural. And hippies seeking status is an oxymoron. It's people trying to climb the corporate ladder or buy a fancy car or look a certain way that seek status, ie way more mainstream people. And anyone who thinks hippies have ever been mainstream anytime after the 60s (and I was born well after that), yea give me a break. Maybe counter-cultural types seek belonging and I suppose any belonging has elements of status seeking, but shrug the suburban homeowners might seek to have the nicest garden on the block. Human beings do human things. The truth is the ONLY people that I feel "this is my tribe" with have been counter-cultural.
But the honest truth is I go through periods of depression and desire for hermitage where I really really don't want to see others. But if I'm doing better, I do. I suppose being a loner hermit is counter-cultural too, but I really don't care what it is, I honestly get sick of humanity sometimes. But yea when young I fantasized like crazy about joining a commune.
I initially though this was a thread about why couples don't live together and well yea now that would indeed be a fight about things being messy etc..
I imagine crunchy granola people to welcome diversity. Of course it is only diversity that can afford to buy into that planned community at $482,000. Or whatever the high buyin fee is. That right there eliminates most undesirable elements of “diversity. “Unless they have section 8 residents. Ha ha Ha. Ha Hah Hah Hah Hah Hah Hah. Yeah, would like to see that happen.
The average home price in the Denver metro area is about $500K. Mostly neither here nor there, but beyond my comprehension and my middle class 50's neighborhood is no where near average but getting there. Makes $482 seem reasonable.
I think I'd go crunchy granola over snooty rich or white gentrification, assuming they don't overlap. Or heaven forbid a bunch of Republicans like Colorado Springs, which has been rated one of the most conservative cities in the nation. It's never perfect and would be a better place if everyone was like me (ha ha).
Edit to add: Crunchy over red necks, too.
iris lilies
4-12-21, 1:20pm
The average home price in the Denver metro area is about $500K. Mostly neither here nor there, but beyond my comprehension and my middle class 50's neighborhood is no where near average but getting there. Makes $482 seem reasonable.
I think I'd go crunchy granola over snooty rich or white gentrification, assuming they don't overlap. Or heaven forbid a bunch of Republicans like Colorado Springs, which has been rated one of the most conservative cities in the nation. It's never perfect and would be a better place if everyone was like me (ha ha).
omg the day .i pay $482,000 to live with a bunch of touchy feely wackos is the day you will KNOW I am out of my head.
Here, $482,000 is a ridiculous sum. The most I will pay for a house is $350,000, and that would be under duress.
And in another state like NH.
Be careful, if you live long enough your standard house well may become an object worth preservation fervor.
1960’s ranches are all the rage and I am watching the trend to see when 1970s splits take over as the coolest thing to preserve.
Me, I draw the line at 1970. I will not live in anything built after 1970. Unless in my fantasy it would be something that I have built and then it would have high ceilings and nice millwork and etc.
You’re probably right. I wish I had held on to some of my old lunch boxes and comic books. And my Microsoft stock. And my Pinto. Maybe someday the HGTV mavens will be pushing Earth tones and built in fondue pots.
I have a couple of crunchy relatives but I don't think they're into communal living--and I'm certainly not. I agree they're a more agreeable bunch than some others; we have at least some values in common.
You’re probably right. I wish I had held on to some of my old lunch boxes and comic books. And my Microsoft stock. And my Pinto. Maybe someday the HGTV mavens will be pushing Earth tones and built in fondue pots.
Around here if a person is shopping for a smaller home, say 1400 sq ft, single story, with a decent sized yard, not built right next to one another, you are most likely looking at an older home. I think one reason those older homes are becoming popular that the empty nest boomers no longer want the mega homes. Very little newer construction that fits those parameters. They are some mighty fine smaller mid-century homes that have been modernized in my area.
The average home price in the Denver metro area is about $500K. Mostly neither here nor there, but beyond my comprehension and my middle class 50's neighborhood is no where near average but getting there. Makes $482 seem reasonable.
I think I'd go crunchy granola over snooty rich or white gentrification, assuming they don't overlap. Or heaven forbid a bunch of Republicans like Colorado Springs, which has been rated one of the most conservative cities in the nation. It's never perfect and would be a better place if everyone was like me (ha ha).
Edit to add: Crunchy over red necks, too.
Funny you should say that. My brother-in-law is moving from So Cal to Colorado Springs in a couple of months. He says it’s getting too difficult for hard-working millionaires like him to make ends meet and raise a family there.
Funny you should say that. My brother-in-law is moving from So Cal to Colorado Springs in a couple of months. He says it’s getting too difficult for hard-working millionaires like him to make ends meet and raise a family there.
It could be an effortless transition for him.
Actually Colorado Springs is a very pretty place with some nice areas and some bad, with plenty of suburban sprawl from new growth. I'm sure your BIL is aware of the demographics. Having lived in various parts of Colorado my whole life it's unpleasant to see how it is growing so fast, crowding the recreation areas, and driving up home prices, but I understand. There used to be a common bumper sticker, Don't Californicate Colorado, but I don't see it around much anymore and now a lot of millennials are coming here from all over.
Razz, the Villages is just a huge planned community. 90% Republican and proud of it. Life centers around trying to be like everyone else and other than the carefully planned activities, there is not much in the area. A new grocery store or restaurant is a cause for great celebration. No way any cohousing involved. Not walkable or diverse in any way. But you can get around in a golf cart.
I think I would die of boredom.
Our area has a fake community called the Villages of West Clay. Overpriced faux period houses and sections of smaller places and townhouses around a small commercial core. Did not grow organically so the businesses had issues of finding enough customers to keep open. A car is needed to get anywhere as the development is in a big cornfield and not really walkable.
builders should consider offering more small houses rather than social engineers trying to talk us all into co-housing.
I think most of us value our privacy too much these days to live for any length of time with others. It is indeed very hard to find a small house with a yard which is what I would like. They are building over-priced retirement, garden homes here and there in "gated" communities but the ones I have looked at kill my soul. There is an interesting co-housing place here is Colo Springs that has been around quite a while: https://casaverde.us
I don't get the impression that they are hard-core anything - great location in town too. Their gardens are wonderful to stroll through since they are on the edge of a city wide walking trail.
Casaverde does look like a good combo for co-housing. I wanted to see what the sale price or rent might be but neither is available at this time.
Regarding small houses with a yard - my house is 1300 sq ft and different people told me that both the house and yard were too small when I bought it in 2014. It seemed that then people wanted either a 1 BR townhouse condo with no outside maintenance or a larger house with a large yard. Today everything is selling for ridiculous prices. I love my little house in walkable distance to most of the services I need. I do need a car for visiting or weekly shopping but today delivery services like Amazon are making it a little easier to go car-free.
I wonder what changes the next 10-20 years will bring in housing?
Teacher Terry
4-12-21, 11:31pm
Ours is 1400 sq ft with a average size yard. It was built in 1950 and the neighborhood is very much in demand. We got 400k. I love the neighborhood and very walkable. We are only a mile from downtown. I know many of the neighbors from walking the dogs. We only have 1 car garages so most people store stuff in there.
I need my own private living space and wouldn’t want to have my only private space a bedroom. Small houses communal living situations often have expectations of people sharing gardening, etc. I don’t want to be assigned chores at this point. I do know that I loved living in my condo and was there for 6 years.
rosarugosa
4-13-21, 5:44am
Gee.. again, I'm interested in how doubtful people are that human beings can co-exist! :). I imagine that decision-making would be made the same way that town decisions are made, or HOA decisions are made, or even how State and Federal decisions are made.
The opposite of communal life is what I had in New Jersey--living as---le to belly-button with your neighbor but barely even seeing them for decades. Everyone has a different expectation and tolerance level for interactions with neighbors, but for me, I've learned through my VT experience that people can get along and work for common goals. Getting the right people might be like winning the lottery, but I'll take that chance. I'd have no problem navigating the idiosyncrasies of human personalities to get a wider "family"
Catherine: I was referring specifically to the info on their website about the consensus decision making model. It sounds so nice, but as someone who was involved in many team projects and endeavors in corporate life, I am somewhat skeptical. Here's an excerpt:
Consensus Driven
Alpenglow CoHousing is committed to ensuring all members are heard and all major decisions are made by consensus. Consensus decision-making is a creative and dynamic way of achieving agreement between all members of a group. Instead of voting and having the majority get their way, we use consensus to find solutions that everyone supports or at least can live with. In consensus decision-making, all opinions, ideas and concerns are considered. By listening closely to each other, we strive to come up with proposals that work for everyone.
Catherine: I was referring specifically to the info on their website about the consensus decision making model. It sounds so nice, but as someone who was involved in many team projects and endeavors in corporate life, I am somewhat skeptical. Here's an excerpt:
Consensus Driven
Alpenglow CoHousing is committed to ensuring all members are heard and all major decisions are made by consensus. Consensus decision-making is a creative and dynamic way of achieving agreement between all members of a group. Instead of voting and having the majority get their way, we use consensus to find solutions that everyone supports or at least can live with. In consensus decision-making, all opinions, ideas and concerns are considered. By listening closely to each other, we strive to come up with proposals that work for everyone.
Sounds like life there would be one long committee meeting.
Catherine: I was referring specifically to the info on their website about the consensus decision making model. It sounds so nice, but as someone who was involved in many team projects and endeavors in corporate life, I am somewhat skeptical. Here's an excerpt:
Consensus Driven
Alpenglow CoHousing is committed to ensuring all members are heard and all major decisions are made by consensus. Consensus decision-making is a creative and dynamic way of achieving agreement between all members of a group. Instead of voting and having the majority get their way, we use consensus to find solutions that everyone supports or at least can live with. In consensus decision-making, all opinions, ideas and concerns are considered. By listening closely to each other, we strive to come up with proposals that work for everyone.
Oh, I see. Yeah, I wonder how many "major decisions" need to be made. If it's one a year, like "should we expand our vegetable garden to include fruit trees?" I could deal with that. I couldn't deal with weekly or even monthly meetings. I could deal with having representatives speak for me, like an HOA board. I think the type of cohousing I would like would entail a minimum of joint decisions. I left the corporate world in large part because I hate meetings. I wanted to be left alone to do my own thing, so, yeah, it would depend on how much energy I'd have to put into consensus building. We have that here on the island, but there is maybe an hour a year spent on discussing joint goals.
iris lilies
4-13-21, 9:47am
Sounds like life there would be one long committee meeting.
yes! Haha, and this is the problem. I think of people who gravitate toward these living situations as those people who like meetings and drag them on forever, yammering so that they are “heard.” Not everything needs to be expressed, not everyone needs to be “ heard.”
Meetings exist to accomplish work.
When I took classes around the turn of the century, the fad was group projects. Most of us absolutely hated them--I certainly don't want to live in one.
yes! Haha, and this is the problem. I think of people who gravitate toward these living situations as those people who like meetings and drag them on forever, yammering so that they are “heard.” Not everything needs to be expressed, not everyone needs to be “ heard.”
Meetings exist to accomplish work.
I’ve always thought meetings were a hard way to arrive at decisions, but an excellent way to protect oneself from accountability and disperse blame for failure. It’s been said that none of us is as stupid as all of us.
One thing I miss about the military is that we were crystal clear about who was in charge and didn’t need to to endlessly discuss every little thing. It didn’t necessarily prevent dumb decisions, but it certainly cut down on wasted time in meetings. I worked for one guy who required everyone to stand up for his morning briefing. That mitigated against long- windedness.
I like being the petty dictator of my petty domain (recognizing my wife’s veto power, of course). It’s better to rule in Hell than “build consensus among the relevant stakeholders” in Heaven.
I like being the petty dictator of my petty domain (recognizing my wife’s veto power, of course). It’s better to rule in Hell than “build consensus among the relevant stakeholders” in Heaven.
Funny! I feel the same way these days and the little dog does not get veto power, not often anyway. ;)
iris lilies
4-13-21, 12:29pm
Funny! I feel the same way these days and the little dog does not get veto power, not often anyway. ;)
Boy though does our household ever cater to the immutable will of a dog, when it is identified as immutable.
you should’ve seen us dancing around our Bulldog’s latest “issue “in the past week. He is a dog with phobias.
All the sudden he cannot drink out of his water dish. There are reasons for that, it was because curtains were blowing around by his dish. SCARY! So I tied up the curtains so that they don’t blow around. It now looks like crap but that doesn’t matter, he’s ruling on this one. Still after that he was afraid and wouldn’t drink and we had to move the bowl...still not drinking. DH then swapped out the stainless steel water bowl for an entirely different one made of glass.
That seemed to do the trick.
rosarugosa
4-13-21, 5:52pm
It’s better to rule in Hell than “build consensus among the relevant stakeholders” in Heaven.
Milton couldn't have said it any better!
Teacher Terry
4-13-21, 6:07pm
IL, our dogs are the boss in our house also:)).
I was thinking about this thread earlier and realized how it has come to be that even neighbors in separate houses can be irritating. The loud lawn machines, the stinky dryer sheets and pot smells, the political signs that are still up, the too many cars parked in the street...but we all mostly stay in our little boxes or recreate behind privacy fences these days. In the good old days, many of these homes had chain link fences with gates so that neighbors could go back and forth to visit. A lot has changed that way as DH and I both remember a time when "visiting" neighbors was something our parents routinely did.
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