Not getting the vaccine?

[frugal-one]

Just talked to a woman who said she was not getting the vaccine EVER. I asked why since the pandemic could continue if we did not reach herd immunity. Her response.... I will send you alternative websites to explain. Geez.... QAnon or what? I am not enthused about taking any vaccinations either but think a pandemic is the exception (as well as other one time or long term vaccinations). We will never get back to "normal" with this type of mentality!

AWK... put in wrong thread category... not sure how to move?

[Alan]

Moved to Health & Health Care. Let me know if you intended another forum.

[Gardnr]

Just talked to a woman who said she was not getting the vaccine EVER.

I bet she's had the other pandemic/epidemic vaccines: smallpox, polio, mumps, measles, rubella.

And if she had children, I'm betting they got them all too.

We are screwed in this country since wishing Covid away is highly unlikely to work. >:(

[Alan]

I bet she's had the other pandemic/epidemic vaccines: smallpox, polio, mumps, measles, rubella.
She'll probably change her mind once the various vaccines achieve full FDA approval rather than the Emergency Use authorization they currently enjoy.

[catherine]

I saw a poll on CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/29/politics/cnn-poll-covid-vaccines/index.html)that asked Democrats, Independents and Republicans if they intended to get the vaccine, and half of Republicans are not intending to get the vaccine


Republicans remain the group most likely to say that they will not try to get a vaccine. Almost half of Republicans, 44%, feel that way, compared with 28% of independents and 8% of Democrats. Within Republicans, resistance to vaccines is concentrated among the young. Among Republicans and Republican-leaning independents ages 50 and older, 66% have gotten a vaccine or are willing to get one, but among those younger than 50, 57% say they will not get a vaccine.

I feel that if Trump Almighty hadn't minimized the pandemic, dismissed the science, and made the virus seem like a big hoax concocted by liberals, that number would have been a lot different. In fact, I think if we had had a different Republican president in 2016, that number would have been a lot different.

[iris lilies]

I saw a poll on CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/29/politics/cnn-poll-covid-vaccines/index.html)that asked Democrats, Independents and Republicans if they intended to get the vaccine, and half of Republicans are not intending to get the vaccine...


And then there was a poll that showed 29% of healthcare workers were not going to get the vaccine.





What’s the overlap between Republicans and healthcare workers? Are the Republicans not getting the vaccine because many are health workers? Are health workers not getting the vaccine because they are Republicans?






I don’t know. But I do know one thing: it’s all Donald Trump‘s fault.




Oh right it’s also Joe Rogan‘s fault. My boyfriend Joe (who does not identify as conservative) said a couple days ago when he was just riffing on his podcast, paraphrasing, that if you are a 21-year-old don’t get the vaccine.




He was ripped to shreds pretty fast and walked that back, as he should. For the 21-year-olds it’s about providing heard immunity, they are doing a community service.

[Alan]

I saw a poll on CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/29/politics/cnn-poll-covid-vaccines/index.html)that asked Democrats, Independents and Republicans if they intended to get the vaccine, and half of Republicans are not intending to get the vaccine


I know quite a few Republicans so you'd think nearly half of them would have refused the vaccine, but strangely enough none of them have. I do know a health care worker who refuses at this time because she doesn't think the FDA did their due diligence before authorizing emergency usage. I'm not sure of her political leanings but CNN pollsters would probably put her in the Republican camp, their audience loves that kind of stuff.

[Gardnr]

And then there was a poll that showed 29% of healthcare workers were not going to get the vaccine.

Many of those are in LTCs. I haven't been to any in the last few years but my experience is that 90% of staff is at the CNA level. Many shifts there were CNAs and only 1 RN or LPN per shift. The Director level is required to be an RN but that person rarely gives patient care.

The LTC sector is the worst for vaccination rates and I have no doubt they skew the data. I would love to find a survey of RNs, MDs, PTs, OTs to understand the rate among well educated professionals.

[KayLR]

I've always kind of suspected that, Gardnr. I'd like to see that survey too.

My DH golf with a guy who says he's never gotten any flu vaccine, never gets the flu, not getting a COVID vaccine. That's his logic.

I'm frustrated that we aren't getting a lot of info saying where they think the spikes in cases are coming from. Over the river in Oregon (close by) they're going backwards, scaling back to previous restrictions. They're not saying where all the new cases are coming from, so we have to surmise. It would be helpful to know. I suspect kids going back to college. Closer quarters and not vaccinated yet. And many of them think they're doing their part to build herd immunity.

[Gardnr]

I've always kind of suspected that, Gardnr. I'd like to see that survey too.

Oregon......They're not saying where all the new cases are coming from, so we have to surmise. It would be helpful to know. I suspect kids going back to college. Closer quarters and not vaccinated yet. And many of them think they're doing their part to build herd immunity.

The highest rates are in the rural counties just like Idaho adjacent to it. The rural folks I talk to think it's no big deal. They don't know hospitalized or dead people so it's just not real (anecdotal observation not published data).

https://groups.io/g/stashbusters/message/25120?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,how+to+calculate,20, 2,0,79398652

[ApatheticNoMore]

I think it breaks down by AGE. Elderly people are more likely to get the vaccine regardless of politics. Well the risk is there as well of course, and often the sacrifice of staying home most for the pandemic year, so it makes a lot of sense. So if all the Republicans one knows are collecting social security, it's likely to skew the sample. Younger people may be less likely to vote Republican in general, but come on, there exist younger Republicans too.

Weather or not it has FDA approval seems a pretty silly hill to die on to me. FDA approval is no guarantee of safety either, and I am convinced the vaccines (esp Pfizer/Moderna) are safe in the short term from the data we already have.

Those not getting vaccinated mostly hurt themselves (and who can care?), except that there are those who can't take vaccines maybe that are hurt, and medical personnel still have to care for these people, but then they have probably seen a fair amount of nonsense in their life (you swallowed what? uh that's not edible ...).

[rosarugosa]

We have one fairly close friend who says he isn't ever going to get the vaccine. He is in his early sixties and is a very heavy drinker and smoker, so it isn't like he holds his body as a temple or anything. He does avoid any interaction with the medical establishment though, doesn't even go to the dentist, so I think that is where his "vaccine hesitancy" is coming from. If you could get a Covid vaccine in a bar, then he might go for it.
The other people I know more as FB friends/acquaintances, and it seems to be politically based. They are vocal Trump supporters, although not terribly young, some in their fifties and a couple in their early sixties.

[jp1]

At some point I assume that health insurers will start charging more to non covid vaccinateds in the same way that a lot of people have to pay higher rates if they smoke or get lower rates if they go for an annual physical.

[frugal-one]

Moved to Health & Health Care. Let me know if you intended another forum.

Thanks!

[happystuff]

At some point I assume that health insurers will start charging more to non covid vaccinateds in the same way that a lot of people have to pay higher rates if they smoke or get lower rates if they go for an annual physical.

I think there is still going to be the social ostracizing that is already starting to occur. The sad part is that those who don't get vaccinated run such a risk of getting COVID - such a hard way to learn.

[jp1]

I think there is still going to be the social ostracizing that is already starting to occur. The sad part is that those who don't get vaccinated run such a risk of getting COVID - such a hard way to learn.

That is the sad part. Especially since the new strains seem terribly virulent.

[Gardnr]

We had a very sad 81 vaccines today at a site staffed for 900. And we are consistently having a 5% no-show rate of those who have scheduled an appt. We cancelled half our staff today. We kept more than really needed in case we had big walk-in volume. Nope. Only 5 unscheduled patients.

We are hoping that when school ends that we will have a big influx of these school kids the first 10days of June! Otherwise, our sites will all likely close up shop.

[bae]

Our last two big sessions are targetted at the schoolkids, seems otherwise like everyone who wants vaccinated here has gotten vaccinated. Leaving us, well, still exposed. The "control" group - best of luck to them.

[Tybee]

I'm curious how this will work for children. So the 12 and ups can get it now, will the littler ones just get the vaccine as they turn 12, the way we do with polio or measles, something to which we have herd immunity, right? So my 6 year old granddaughter would get a Covid shot in 6 years? Or is it like smallpox, where if it is not in the population at that time, she won't?

[Yppej]

I wonder if there are people who hate masks so much that if they didn't have to wear one while being inoculated would get the vaccine.

Shots are being given at places like ballparks - which in my state at least will soon be mask optional. So grab your hot dog, and while your mouth is free chomping on that get your vaccine. It would be an only in America thing but it just might work for some of those who are hesitant. To reach these people thinking outside the box - or the mask - is required.

Now you might say no mask presents a risk to the person administering the shot, though presumably that person is vaccinated by now. However, putting a spit guard on Daniel Prude to protect officers was deemed wrong by many, so at some point I guess the rights of first responders/medical personnel to be in their comfort zone when it comes to germs becomes irrelevant.

[happystuff]

I'm curious how this will work for children. So the 12 and ups can get it now, will the littler ones just get the vaccine as they turn 12, the way we do with polio or measles, something to which we have herd immunity, right? So my 6 year old granddaughter would get a Covid shot in 6 years? Or is it like smallpox, where if it is not in the population at that time, she won't?

I don't have an answer to your questions, but it is the kids I worry about most. Summer break from school may help, but often times there is an increase in sports and socializing during the summer that makes contact almost the same as being in school for some of these kids.

[jp1]

Interesting article looking into the various why's of people who are vaccine hesitant, with details broken down by state.

In the United States overall...
8% are Watchful. They’re waiting to see what happens next.
9% are Cost-Anxious. They want the vaccine but can’t afford the time or cost.
4% are System Distrusters. They feel the health care system doesn’t treat them fairly.
14% are Covid Skeptics. They don’t believe the threat.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/18/opinion/covid-19-vaccine-hesitancy.html

[Gardnr]

I'm curious how this will work for children. So the 12 and ups can get it now, will the littler ones just get the vaccine as they turn 12, the way we do with polio or measles, something to which we have herd immunity, right? So my 6 year old granddaughter would get a Covid shot in 6 years? Or is it like smallpox, where if it is not in the population at that time, she won't?

Tybee, the clinical trials for age 6m to age 11 are underway. It is going slowly as they begin with the smallest dose they believe feasible. They will gradually increase the dose to achieve the desired efficacy rate. (Age 12-15 has been 100%%). Currently it sounds like stage 3 trials should be complete late December and the hope is that EUA will come in January 2022 for this group.

Meanwhile, we've had some 10yo siblings beg to get it anyway when they see older siblings getting the protection.

May all these children stay healthy meanwhile!!!!

[pinkytoe]

I am scheduled for my second Pfizer shot tomorrow. I am hesitant for several reasons - 1) I have another unresolved health issue going on; 2) I have had ridiculous heart palpitations that started after #1; and 3) There is way too much conflicting info about efficacy of first shot - everything from 50% to 85%.

[Gardnr]

I am scheduled for my second Pfizer shot tomorrow. I am hesitant for several reasons - 1) I have another unresolved health issue going on; 2) I have had ridiculous heart palpitations that started after #1; and 3) There is way too much conflicting info about efficacy of first shot - everything from 50% to 85%.

I rely solely on the CDC for MD analysis of the data. Here is their website report:

Adjusted vaccine effectiveness (VE) against COVID-19–associated hospitalization among adults aged ≥65 years was estimated to be 94% (95% confidence interval [CI] = 49%–99%) for full vaccination and 64% (95% CI = 28%–82%) for partial vaccination.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7018e1.htm

Our vaccination program has MDs and NPs for consultation. As a vaccinator, I educate that racing heart is one of the known and possible side effects. Having this does not cause warning against taking the 2nd vaccine. My further inquiry would be: When did this begin? How long did it last? Did you call your Dr or go to the ER? Did you receive any treatment for it? Do you know how fast your heart rate got? Do you have any underlying heart conditions? I would then contact our provider for counsel. Since your appt is tomorrow, I do advise, that you have a discussion with your primary care Dr before you get #2 if this continued more than a week.

Not knowing what your other underlying health issue is and whether the 2 can have a compounding effect, please do call your Dr.

I wish you good health and feeling safe!

[ApatheticNoMore]

In the United States overall...
8% are Watchful. They’re waiting to see what happens next.
9% are Cost-Anxious. They want the vaccine but can’t afford the time or cost.
4% are System Distrusters. They feel the health care system doesn’t treat them fairly.
14% are Covid Skeptics. They don’t believe the threat.

seems to me if we accept these cost anxious exist, it would have been the right thing to go to extra effort to try to reach them with vaccines before removing mask mandates. But in a world that is already hyper-partisan (that believes "only trump anti-vaxers have not been vaccinated") it just doesn't register as an issue even for those who had previously supported mask mandates. I mean the failure is on those in authority, but they won't be held to account.

[Gardnr]

Interesting article looking into the various why's of people who are vaccine hesitant, with details broken down by state.

In the United States overall...
8% are Watchful. They’re waiting to see what happens next.
9% are Cost-Anxious. They want the vaccine but can’t afford the time or cost.
4% are System Distrusters. They feel the health care system doesn’t treat them fairly.
14% are Covid Skeptics. They don’t believe the threat.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/18/opinion/covid-19-vaccine-hesitancy.html

There is no out-of-pocket cost so that's off the refusal grid. I do understand the time from work has a significant financial impact for many struggling to make ends meet. Our President is attempting to solve that but as usual, there is a significant population at the Congressional address that don't support this proposal:(

[Tybee]

Tybee, the clinical trials for age 6m to age 11 are underway. It is going slowly as they begin with the smallest dose they believe feasible. They will gradually increase the dose to achieve the desired efficacy rate. (Age 12-15 has been 100%%). Currently it sounds like stage 3 trials should be complete late December and the hope is that EUA will come in January 2022 for this group.

Meanwhile, we've had some 10yo siblings beg to get it anyway when they see older siblings getting the protection.

May all these children stay healthy meanwhile!!!!

That would be wonderful, if they could get the vaccine by next January!!

[ApatheticNoMore]

There is no cost but that doesn't mean people might not believe there is a cost, because they are simply not informed, or because they are distrustful (because who hasn't had a surprise medical bill where something wasn't covered though they thought it would be). That is not the case with covid vaccination, it really is free, but you want people to trust an opaque medical billing system that so many have been burned by, yea there might be reluctance. And it doesn't help insurance information is asked, even though if you are uninsured you can still get the vaccine, it's easy to see why it is confusing. It's a matter of educating people.

You can mandate time off, but it strikes me perhaps not a better solution than having vaccine clinics with very extended hours. The thing is you can mandate sick time, but every employee with a precarious job is going to believe they might get in trouble for it, and unlike with vaccine costs which is a misunderstanding, they are probably right there. If they get fired for taking legal sick time, well it's at will employment, good luck with that.