View Full Version : It IS real.....
gimmethesimplelife
6-9-21, 4:16pm
The labor shortage, I mean. Despite a bit of a attempt to find emplyees blitz we are having hardly any applicants apply. I an doing nicely with the OT and am banking all I can away. I will confess to being a bit spooked by the pandemic and the events since March 2020 - who knows what's next? So I work and save all I can. Rob
We've had a terrible shortage here too.
We've had very few, especially viable, candidates apply for my job. I may end up just doing part-time. One of them could only work part-time.
iris lilies
6-9-21, 6:13pm
A couple weeks ago for my birthday we went to our local high-end restaurant. It was fairly early in the evening and it was probably Wednesday or Thursday, not their busy Friday Saturday.
They were not taking reservations or new customers for the evening because they didn’t have enough personnel working.
Tough business. After being closed down so long and losing so much revenue, now they’re losing revenue because they can’t fill and turn tables.
I have been meaning to ask Catherine how her son the waiter is doing. I would bet he’s getting job offers like crazy.
My store is also trying unsuccessfully to hire. We pay livable wages, have good benefits, and offer profit sharing, but do require experience.
Business at my new job is booming and we can’t find enough people either.
I'm getting unsolicited offers to clean AirBnB cabins for $45/hour! I'm helping a good friend of mine in the village run his sporting goods store an afternoon a week for $15/hour just to help out - he recruited half a dozen of us to sign up to sit there and sell fishing licenses to the tourists when they wander in.
I also just took a position as the on-call backup site technician for the large telecommunications facility on top of our mountain, mostly because I live within snowshoeing distance of it, and have an electrical engineering degree. That pays a lot more, when they call me. So, I think I now control the horizontal and vertical for most Seattle/PNW radio and TV stations, as all of their antennae and transmitters are at that site, as well as the secret squirrel Homeland Security stuff. This one I took because there was a desperate need, and it gets me the keys and codes to the entire huge park the site is located inside (which is most of the mountain), and permission to use the park at night for my photography. I do most of the search/rescue work in the park anyways, but I hated to overstep that permission for my own nefarious projects.
DGS just did an interview at a local restaurant near a major thruway and was hired but the starting date still has to be set. He had his first Pfizer jab this week with second scheduled before school starts in the fall.
dado potato
6-9-21, 9:31pm
In my neck of the woods, bar owners are having a high turnover of waitstaff. In their view, standards must be maintained. They will hire freely, but if an employee is not able to perform up to standards, he or she is fired. There has been some grumbling from customers, disappointed with service or food preparation.
I'm getting unsolicited offers to clean AirBnB cabins for $45/hour! I'm helping a good friend of mine in the village run his sporting goods store an afternoon a week for $15/hour just to help out - he recruited half a dozen of us to sign up to sit there and sell fishing licenses to the tourists when they wander in.
I also just took a position as the on-call backup site technician for the large telecommunications facility on top of our mountain, mostly because I live within snowshoeing distance of it, and have an electrical engineering degree. That pays a lot more, when they call me. So, I think I now control the horizontal and vertical for most Seattle/PNW radio and TV stations, as all of their antennae and transmitters are at that site, as well as the secret squirrel Homeland Security stuff. This one I took because there was a desperate need, and it gets me the keys and codes to the entire huge park the site is located inside (which is most of the mountain), and permission to use the park at night for my photography. I do most of the search/rescue work in the park anyways, but I hated to overstep that permission for my own nefarious projects.
Well, aren’t you in demand! That last sounds rather interesting.
I don't know if it was through Linkedin or what but my in box is being flooded with job offers. What a feast of opportunities. Too bad I'm not in the market for a job. My neighbor was just telling me that she has been approved to continue working from home and that her business is months behind in production. They can't get people hired.
For the first time in its history our local amusement park has had to reduce its operating hours due to not being able to find enough help.
I have been meaning to ask Catherine how her son the waiter is doing. I would bet he’s getting job offers like crazy.
Actually my son is in Nashville for a month to test the waters in the music scene. He's been playing open mics 3-4 nights a week, was offered a Showcase and has joined a songwriter's collective. He used his stimulus savings to pay for the trip. When he comes back he'll need to get a job, but I have a feeling he'll miss Nashville. We'll see where he lands, but you're right--he should be able to get a job very easily no matter where he winds up.
Teacher Terry
6-9-21, 10:13pm
Catherine, that’s great that your son is trying for what he wants to do. I wish him the best of luck.
ToomuchStuff
6-10-21, 12:28am
Have two people I know, who were let go due to age (never written up/warned, etc and ran the security). One found a job quickly, while the other, decided to take some time off, which worked out as he got to be there when his mom passed. LEO friend kept giving him job postings ($50K to sit in a guard shack and call the feds in the building if a problem). I couldn't believe what they were offering.
Another guy we know, has been offering $20 an hour, for guys to mow lawns, with no takers. People in the KC metro area (especially my city), complaining because so many dining rooms are not open (and playing the, but everywhere is open card). So many not open, because they can't get enough help. Heck, we have two McDonalds that are drive through only.
The whole thing is screwy.
Wonder how much is due to childcare issues? They were among the lowest paid employees prepandemic. We have seen ads for hiring bonus offers of up to $30,000 (actual ad) for employees in the nursing home business. Mom's assisted living next to her place cannot keep people in the food prep area. All these were low paid positions with high turnover prepandemic but at least they had applicants.
Wonder how much is due to childcare issues? They were among the lowest paid employees prepandemic. We have seen ads for hiring bonus offers of up to $30,000 (actual ad) for employees in the nursing home business. Mom's assisted living next to her place cannot keep people in the food prep area. All these were low paid positions with high turnover prepandemic but at least they had applicants.
Some could be childcare but for more well paid jobs such as with my company?
Giving you three examples of a reason that people don't want these jobs. Abuse by customers is a really serious issue that no one is addressing.
At a local pizza supplier, a customer ranted and raved about his rights to not wear a mask in the store. He would have ordered online as I did and could have had the order delivered to his car for pick-up or to his home. The staff have to follow the law! I was exhausted just listening to him and other customers were getting annoyed at his abusive behaviour, the staff were apologizing to each of us for the situation. We were trying to support them.
At a local pharmacy, a long-term staff member that I chat with regularly as I pick my weekly milk supply advised that she has had it with abuse from customers. She fully understands that people are stressed due to the covid situation but to to take it out on staff is draining for all the staff and their morale. She is taking early retirement but may return when the public's frustrations abate. She loves her job, meeting with regulars and helping them but she said so many staff are totally beat at the end of each shift.
A small horticultural business offering really unique items and services was lamenting that customers come in, take a look and ask," is this all there is?" He got the impression that people were looking for a Disney-level experience in a garden as they were out for a drive and complaining that the business didn't deliver to their expectations. It is disheartening.
Local municipal employees receive complaints from the public because the grounds at a cemetery are not at the level of their perfect private lawns but the municipality facing huge expenses with covid services in health, alternate buildings, work schedules, etc., don't have the usual extra summer staff so do the best that they can with a skeleton crew. Budgets govern decisions. Complaining and grumbling to staff who are doing their best is draining.
Listen to SLF members who have posted about their experience with abuse at work and hear what they are saying.
Thanks to each and every member and worker who delivers a parcel to my home, carries my purchases curbside and answers my queries is key to my generally positive experience.
More that one person has said, " I don't need this ****". A worker is not someone who is available for another to abuse, no matter what work they do.
What covid has done is exposed how much we, the public, need every worker regardless of which field they work in.
There, I have now ranted on this topic because it has been concerning me for some time.
iris lilies
6-10-21, 10:05am
Time too open up The Wall and let the flood of immigrants in.
(Ducking for cover)
happystuff
6-10-21, 10:26am
Well said, razz.
I’m reading a number of states are shutting off the enhanced unemployment benefit early in the hope of goading people back to work.
catherine
6-10-21, 11:42am
Giving you three examples of a reason that people don't want these jobs. Abuse by customers is a really serious issue that no one is addressing.
At a local pizza supplier, a customer ranted and raved about his rights to not wear a mask in the store. He would have ordered online as I did and could have had the order delivered to his car for pick-up or to his home. The staff have to follow the law! I was exhausted just listening to him and other customers were getting annoyed at his abusive behaviour, the staff were apologizing to each of us for the situation. We were trying to support them.
At a local pharmacy, a long-term staff member that I chat with regularly as I pick my weekly milk supply advised that she has had it with abuse from customers. She fully understands that people are stressed due to the covid situation but to to take it out on staff is draining for all the staff and their morale. She is taking early retirement but may return when the public's frustrations abate. She loves her job, meeting with regulars and helping them but she said so many staff are totally beat at the end of each shift.
A small horticultural business offering really unique items and services was lamenting that customers come in, take a look and ask," is this all there is?" He got the impression that people were looking for a Disney-level experience in a garden as they were out for a drive and complaining that the business didn't deliver to their expectations. It is disheartening.
Local municipal employees receive complaints from the public because the grounds at a cemetery are not at the level of their perfect private lawns but the municipality facing huge expenses with covid services in health, alternate buildings, work schedules, etc., don't have the usual extra summer staff so do the best that they can with a skeleton crew. Budgets govern decisions. Complaining and grumbling to staff who are doing their best is draining.
Listen to SLF members who have posted about their experience with abuse at work and hear what they are saying.
Thanks to each and every member and worker who delivers a parcel to my home, carries my purchases curbside and answers my queries is key to my generally positive experience.
More that one person has said, " I don't need this ****". A worker is not someone who is available for another to abuse, no matter what work they do.
What covid has done is exposed how much we, the public, need every worker regardless of which field they work in.
There, I have now ranted on this topic because it has been concerning me for some time.
There was an article in the NY Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/21/business/pandemic-restaurant-tipping.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage) that I sent my son a couple of months ago that talked about this--how horribly servers are treated--and even worse because they wear masks (especially females). Specifically because they wear masks and the customer "can't see their face" they don't get tips!! Such unreasonable, unfair behavior. I don't understand humanity sometimes.
My son, before he left for his Nashville trip, during the time he was working during COVID, said that people were nastier, and the work was much, much harder--with sanitizing toilets during downtime and moving heavy tables inside and out every day so people could eat outside. Then taking abuse from the patrons. And because of the low volume driven by distancing requirements he would work all day for $30.
Giving you three examples of a reason that people don't want these jobs. Abuse by customers is a really serious issue that no one is addressing.
At a local pizza supplier, a customer ranted and raved about his rights to not wear a mask in the store. He would have ordered online as I did and could have had the order delivered to his car for pick-up or to his home. The staff have to follow the law! I was exhausted just listening to him and other customers were getting annoyed at his abusive behaviour, the staff were apologizing to each of us for the situation. We were trying to support them.
At a local pharmacy, a long-term staff member that I chat with regularly as I pick my weekly milk supply advised that she has had it with abuse from customers. She fully understands that people are stressed due to the covid situation but to to take it out on staff is draining for all the staff and their morale. She is taking early retirement but may return when the public's frustrations abate. She loves her job, meeting with regulars and helping them but she said so many staff are totally beat at the end of each shift.
A small horticultural business offering really unique items and services was lamenting that customers come in, take a look and ask," is this all there is?" He got the impression that people were looking for a Disney-level experience in a garden as they were out for a drive and complaining that the business didn't deliver to their expectations. It is disheartening.
Local municipal employees receive complaints from the public because the grounds at a cemetery are not at the level of their perfect private lawns but the municipality facing huge expenses with covid services in health, alternate buildings, work schedules, etc., don't have the usual extra summer staff so do the best that they can with a skeleton crew. Budgets govern decisions. Complaining and grumbling to staff who are doing their best is draining.
Listen to SLF members who have posted about their experience with abuse at work and hear what they are saying.
Thanks to each and every member and worker who delivers a parcel to my home, carries my purchases curbside and answers my queries is key to my generally positive experience.
More that one person has said, " I don't need this ****". A worker is not someone who is available for another to abuse, no matter what work they do.
What covid has done is exposed how much we, the public, need every worker regardless of which field they work in.
There, I have now ranted on this topic because it has been concerning me for some time.
So disheartening. I'm ashamed at what we've become. So entitled.
happystuff
6-10-21, 12:54pm
Originally posted by razz: Thanks to each and every member and worker who delivers a parcel to my home, carries my purchases curbside and answers my queries is key to my generally positive experience.
One thing I will credit to this warehouse job is truly understanding what it takes to go from sitting comfortably at home, clicking the computer for an item(s), waiting (usually impatiently and then complaining after 2 days), to opening the front door and picking up the package. I totally understand why these warehouses usually have a huge turnover of employees. Right now (not even full into summer temperatures) - besides the already various degrees of being physically demanding - it is hot and sweaty, there is no reduction in quotas, and mandatory OT - which just adds "tired" to the previous list on the employees.
So disheartening. I'm ashamed at what we've become. So entitled.
Having processed returns gives an eye-opening idea of the sense of entitlement *some* people have. Most wear gloves for that job because you never know what is in the return bags. I've had dirty, smelly clothes returned that have obviously been worn, are well passed the return period, but the customer still expects their refund. We get stuff that doesn't belong to our company that the customer swears it does. One girl opened a package and it was full of both live and dead ants!!! I could go on, but won't.
I agree with KayLR - very disheartening.
Edited to add the physically demanding part.
Teacher Terry
6-10-21, 1:03pm
My DIL was laid off for a year and went back to work once she was vaccinated. She is a cocktail waitress at a casino. She is getting huge tips and customers are so happy to be out that they are very nice. She is still wearing a mask although she doesn’t have to. Also Californians are tipping way more than locals. The ones who moved here commented on how cheap things are when really our COL is high.
iris lilies
6-10-21, 1:23pm
My DIL was laid off for a year and went back to work once she was vaccinated. She is a cocktail waitress at a casino. She is getting huge tips and customers are so happy to be out that they are very nice. She is still wearing a mask although she doesn’t have to. Also Californians are tipping way more than locals. The ones who moved here commented on how cheap things are when really our COL is high.
That is good to hear this positive POV.
Catherine I tip extra if they have to wear a mask because I feel sorry for them.
frugal-one
6-10-21, 2:38pm
DH and I have started going to eat in restaurants. We have been "big tippers". It is heartwarming to see the servers response. This is the way we plan on spending our COVID relief money. Restaurants here are having to restrict hours because they cannot find help. September the extra $300/week COVID payments stop. It will be interesting to see if this makes a difference???
ETA_ I could care less if they wear a mask or not....
Catherine, that’s great that your son is trying for what he wants to do. I wish him the best of luck.
Thank you, Terry!
Catherine I tip extra if they have to wear a mask because I feel sorry for them.
On behalf of my son, and all the other servers out there, thank you, Jeppy.
iris lilies
6-10-21, 3:09pm
During Covid I tipped a couple times in amounts so large that my credit card company contacted me via auto contact, to see if I had really tipped that much.
During Covid I tipped a couple times in amounts so large that my credit card company contacted me via auto contact, to see if I had really tipped that much.
My son's "best tip" story was about a couple that sat in his section and he had just finished slicing bread and didn't realize he had cornstarch and crumbs on his black pants. He always says he can tell just from looking at his patrons what they're going to be like, and he wasn't getting a good feeling. So he went up and introduced himself as he usually does and right away they lambasted him, saying: "You're disgusting!"
He was dumbfounded for an instant and then tried to recoup and asked if there was anything he could get for him and she continued to attack him, mostly over his clothes being "crumby." His colleagues heard what was going on and offered to take the table.
"No," he said. "I've got this." His professionalism led him to take it on as a challenge to keep his feelings out of it and win them over.
I'm not sure what he did to serve them from that point on, but when they left, he picked up the receipt and on a $70 charge they had left him $140.00 tip.
ApatheticNoMore
6-10-21, 7:40pm
I bet this doesn't happen so much in countries that has govt programs that paid people through their jobs to stay home during covid lockdowns, with a job to come back to. But no, we went for lay offs and unemployment, leading to much higher initial spikes in unemployment in the U.S., and now they can't just hire them all back as some have well and truly moved on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-time_working
happystuff
6-11-21, 10:12am
One of my kids used to do delivery so they learned about tipping early on. I've always done at least 20%, if not more.
The boss said people still on unemployment with this many jobs around are not interested in working and he is going to carry job applications around with him and every time he goes to a store will try to lure the clerk to come work for us. He is going to give up on the requirement of experience in our industry. He said what is important is that the person is working because that shows they want to work.
ApatheticNoMore
6-11-21, 12:18pm
People with something resembling an actual career (even if not absolutely fantastic) will want to work as money in the short term is not the thing (of course they work for money but whether they have it this month and next is REALLY not the thing - there exists a long term). What matters is time out of work counts as a negative to getting another job and that job and money WILL be needed AT SOME POINT*. So you don't screw up your resume with vast gaps unless you can't help it and have no luck finding appropriate work etc.. For some low paid minimum wage job, yea maybe noone cares that much about time out of work being a negative (or maybe they do). Of course it's jobs that actually pay one's bills well that one doesn't want to screw up, not stuff that never much will. "Oh great a minimum wage job that will never pay my bills, woopeee, I'll go just as bankrupt as I will unemployed, just a bit slower!!!"
* Now if childcare obligations make it impossible to work that's another issue, women will always pay in their careers for having kids, that's how it goes.
Here in WA, starting July 4, the teat is empty. Unemployed will be required to show they are seeking employment to continue to receive benefits.
Gotta get those serfs back working in the fields!
Here in WA, starting July 4, the teat is empty. Unemployed will be required to show they are seeking employment to continue to receive benefits.
I always had to keep track for IL. They never made the requirement go away!
The boss said people still on unemployment with this many jobs around are not interested in working at the wages he wants to pay for that job.
There. Fixed it for ya (well, for him).
I'm guessing when Boss was hired he made sure he was offered the highest salary that could be offered for what he brought to the job. Seems he's forgotten that experience....
There. Fixed it for ya (well, for him).
I'm guessing when Boss was hired he made sure he was offered the highest salary that could be offered for what he brought to the job. Seems he's forgotten that experience....
The boss took a pay cut when he joined the company because he was burnt out with what he was doing. There was no guarantee he would move up but he did. Since I came in October 4 of the 10 employees at my site have been promoted. It isn't always about money but opportunity to grow.
mschrisgo2
6-12-21, 2:38am
I took my car in for service today, when I checked out, the service manager mentioned that they have 2 openings for service technicians, as one has taken Family Leave, and another is retiring soon. This is a large, very successful dealership. They did not shut down during the pandemic.
I was a little surprised, and asked about experience/qualifications: ability and willingness to follow directions and procedures, computer savvy and willing to learn more, genuine desire to join a team for long term advancement. 40-44 hours per week, $40/hour during training. (And, I assume, a raise after initial training is complete). She said they decided to recruit via their current customers because we can share our perceptions of the work atmosphere, which I see as a place where employees enjoy their work. (Yes, the Service Manager is a woman, she’s been in that position for 24 years.)
I sent the information to my grandson. He meets the qualifications. It would be as easy 20 mile reverse commute for him, and the salary is quite inviting for a 22 yr old. I have to admit, I think I’ll be disappointed if he doesn’t follow up. He was laid off from 2 jobs during the pandemic, and is now delivering organic vegetables….
$40/hour for an early 20-something would be great. Hope your grandson pursues it.
ApatheticNoMore
6-12-21, 2:02pm
It's over 80k a year to be trained, so I'm not sure why any "for an early 20 something" caveats are needed. Is the expectation everyone older than that is pulling down 6 figures? But what matters most at that age is what direction one wants to go in longer term of course.
Teacher Terry
6-12-21, 2:28pm
That’s a great salary.
It's over 80k a year to be trained, so I'm not sure why any "for an early 20 something" caveats are needed. Is the expectation everyone older than that is pulling down 6 figures? But what matters most at that age is what direction one wants to go in longer term of course.
Most early 20 somethings I know are not making $40/hoiur.
I took my car in for service today, when I checked out, the service manager mentioned that they have 2 openings for service technicians, as one has taken Family Leave, and another is retiring soon. This is a large, very successful dealership. They did not shut down during the pandemic.
I was a little surprised, and asked about experience/qualifications: ability and willingness to follow directions and procedures, computer savvy and willing to learn more, genuine desire to join a team for long term advancement. 40-44 hours per week, $40/hour during training. (And, I assume, a raise after initial training is complete). She said they decided to recruit via their current customers because we can share our perceptions of the work atmosphere, which I see as a place where employees enjoy their work. (Yes, the Service Manager is a woman, she’s been in that position for 24 years.)
I sent the information to my grandson. He meets the qualifications. It would be as easy 20 mile reverse commute for him, and the salary is quite inviting for a 22 yr old. I have to admit, I think I’ll be disappointed if he doesn’t follow up. He was laid off from 2 jobs during the pandemic, and is now delivering organic vegetables….
It's good pay for where I am, but in California maybe not so much, especially if it's around Silicon Valley.
happystuff
6-12-21, 3:54pm
I always thought that, at a car dealership, the "service technician" was basically a mechanic - and doesn't that require more official-type schooling? Or is it a new label for what used to be a "car salesman"?
I would LOVE to earn $40/hour as a trainee and the job qualifications being ability and willingness to follow directions and procedures, computer savvy and willing to learn more, genuine desire to join a team for long term advancement!
Companies used to routinely train their employees--imagine that!
I would LOVE to earn $40/hour as a trainee and the job qualifications being ability and willingness to follow directions and procedures, computer savvy and willing to learn more, genuine desire to join a team for long term advancement!
If I lived there and could do only part-time, I'd go for it.
That’s a great salary for a trainee. And assuming they like it and do well the future would seem very bright. But I’m not surprised. With all the computers in cars today (the current new car shortage is caused by the chip shortage. Every new car has dozens of them) an auto technician needs to be both a mechanic and a specialized IT person. So they should get paid that well. Sounds like a good career for a young person today. Pays well amd can’t really be outsourced to someone in a cheaper labor market on the other side of the world.
mschrisgo2
6-13-21, 2:43am
That’s a great salary for a trainee. And assuming they like it and do well the future would seem very bright. But I’m not surprised.
—— With all the computers in cars today (the current new car shortage is caused by the chip shortage. Every new car has dozens of them) an auto technician needs to be both a mechanic and a specialized IT person. —-
So they should get paid that well. Sounds like a good career for a young person today. Pays well amd can’t really be outsourced to someone in a cheaper labor market on the other side of the world.
** This, right here: “pays well and can’t really be outsourced to someone in a cheaper job market on the other side of the world.”
He has already started/committed to 2 different “careers” that evaporated right before his eyes, finish carpenter, and butcher.
He joined the carpenters union and apprentice program the Monday after his high school graduation. By December, the jobs were all gone and they shut down the program. This was 4 years ago, well before the current huge lumber shortage; commercial buildings went to metal doors, frames and trim. And commercial was all that was being built in California then (and not much more now).
Then he worked for one of the big cell phone companies as a salesperson, achieved highest sales in the region for a 6-month period. But they wouldn’t give him the “bonus for high sales achievement” because he hadn’t been with the company for a year yet. He walked out. “no integrity there, I can’t work for them.”
Big box home improvement store was next- “big company with a reputation for taking care of their employees” — but he hated cashiering.
Butcher was the next “career” - “people gotta eat, right?” Pandemic hits, meat shortage ensues, all the butchers in that grocery company were offered cashier positions, or unemployment. He already knew he hated cashiering, so he took unemployment, for just a few weeks [3 maybe 4?]
Next has been this delivery job, “it’s ok until I find something that pays better, uses my skills and offers some stability and possible longevity.
He is going to visit the dealership on Monday.
Great to hear he’s pursuing it!
I wish him the best possible luck--with his job record, he surely deserves it.
happystuff
6-13-21, 10:01am
Yay and good luck to him!!!!
mschrisgo2
6-16-21, 2:04am
Grandson has his second interview tomorrow!
Looking only for the money is not the "best" use of his time. He should look for any and all training opportunities and continue that thruout his life. It would be great to be totally stable like in the 70s and 80s. Now you have to be prepared for change at any time. A portfolio of skills constantly updated is better than sitting and hoping one job in one company will last forever.
All those previous jobs taught him something.
iris lilies
6-16-21, 9:12am
Mschris, It sounds like your grandson is a go-getter and he will do fine. He is going to find his way.
ToomuchStuff
6-16-21, 9:40am
Looking only for the money is not the "best" use of his time. He should look for any and all training opportunities and continue that thruout his life. It would be great to be totally stable like in the 70s and 80s. Now you have to be prepared for change at any time. A portfolio of skills constantly updated is better than sitting and hoping one job in one company will last forever.
All those previous jobs taught him something.
Wrenching does teach you skills. Mechanical (repair and diagnose), electrical (same), some computer (interaction with cars internal network and diagnose failures of network and components), etc.
However while he may make a good salary, there is a LOT of cost in the tools and equipment he will be expected to supply of his own, and then there will be the shop equipment.
Those skills can be used to wrench in many places, as well as diagnosing and repairing things in other jobs, throughout life, etc.
My recommendation is NOT to fall for the tool truck guys and the "I have the biggest box" syndrome.
Much better to get the tools first, and not to finance everything. I've seen guys that bought the huge box and had to borrow all the tools, as well as a friend who works out of a Harbor Freight cart, with a huge amount of tools stuffed into it (there are lots of toolbox brands out there). There are specialty tools one will buy off a truck, there are tools one will break often enough to buy off the truck (better ratchets), as well as do you have x, I need it today. There are also tools I would rather buy the OEM, then the rebranded truck tool at twice the price. (I bought several things that our truck was trying to sell me, before he tried)
I have one former coworker, whose stepfather is/was (may be retired now), the Ferrari mechanic in town, who had over 16' of toolboxes, stacked around 8' tall and over $250K in his tools. It can be a very expensive job if not careful. But the skills do help in other endeavors.
happystuff
6-16-21, 10:53am
Grandson has his second interview tomorrow!
Good luck to him!!!
Teacher Terry
6-16-21, 11:23am
That’s great news about the second interview!!
Mschris, It sounds like your grandson is a go-getter and he will do fine. He is going to find his way.
That was my first thought as well.
ApatheticNoMore
6-16-21, 2:35pm
Looking only for the money is not the "best" use of his time. He should look for any and all training opportunities and continue that thruout his life. It would be great to be totally stable like in the 70s and 80s. Now you have to be prepared for change at any time. A portfolio of skills constantly updated is better than sitting and hoping one job in one company will last forever.
I agree that money isn't the most important thing, but what work he can see doing long term.
But this portfolio of skills stuff this is basically what they told Gen X. Pounded into our brains. I don't really believe any of it. There may be no job security, but the rainbow skills unicorn we were all taught to chase, was just another myth. You think "oh I'm going to get hired on skills independent of industry". Well you could .. in theory ... if your industry went away, it's an option I guess. But it's actually very hard to get hired on that because unless your skills are very special indeed and almost noone else has them (and that is not most things), you are a dime a dozen. What people actually want is often industry specific knowledge. If all you have is skills you are more likely to land short term contract work than ever get a full time job. In fact contract work will probably build more skills as well. I certainly know very skilled contract workers doing that. Half the time they don't have healthcare coverage at all but being able to go to the doctor is a luxury that merely skilled people can not afford.
Besides continuing endless job hopping throughout your life is about like telling someone to casually date throughout their life and never get in a long term relationship. Ok if that's your thing more power to you, but really, that's really going to be a lifeplan? Some job hopping at 20 something is like dating around then, all to the good, but then one doesn't stay 20 something forever either.
Staying at a seemingly stable job at some point is probably the best bet financially. The thing is though that it's boring, it's like that affair you keep fantasizing about because you are bored with a long marriage. Yea you probably shouldn't have the affair, but with jobs you may just have to keep doing something new and job hopping to keep the boredom at bay to make life tolerable, but it is certainly no guarantee of any future stability, that's more likely found in staying somewhere.
Skills don't matter much if you know the right people.
Skills don't matter much if you know the right people.
I beg to differ. Someone with just a customs broker license but absolutely zilch experience in the industry is not going to get you anywhere. You need experience putting that knowledge to use. A ton of stuff in my industry is learned on the job. I’ve never handled pharmaceutical imports before. Coworker has one and I’m learning as he goes.
mschrisgo2
6-16-21, 9:19pm
Looking only for the money is not the "best" use of his time. He should look for any and all training opportunities and continue that thruout his life. It would be great to be totally stable like in the 70s and 80s. Now you have to be prepared for change at any time. A portfolio of skills constantly updated is better than sitting and hoping one job in one company will last forever.
All those previous jobs taught him something.
No where did I say he was looking only for the money, and in fact, he is not. He does, however, have a wife and 2yr old son, and they all like nice things, LOL
When he talks about his “skills” he’s referring to his outstanding mechanical aptitude and skills- he has been taking things apart and putting them back together since he was 2 yrs old. And he can draw a schematic of what he just did. He has had a side gig of making realistic looking props for movies/anime out of recycled materials for about 10 years now; he has been well-compensated for that. His computer skills are stellar, and he literally Loves to learn new programs. He is an excellent communicator, and a very good sales person. He likes to work on a team, but be accountable for a clearly defined part. He has not had any trouble getting a job, he is a go-getter with a high energy level and high integrity.
I expect that he’s talking to his next boss as I type this.
mschrisgo2
6-16-21, 9:34pm
…
However while he may make a good salary, there is a LOT of cost in the tools and equipment he will be expected to supply of his own, and then there will be the shop equipment …
No.
Some how, I guess, I failed to make clear that this job is working as a technician for an international automobile manufacturer inside a specific dealership. They have a state-of-the-art repair facility. They provide all tools, etc. They also train their own people, because, hey, no one else does what they do. Hence, the prerequisite of being “willing and able to learn” and “follow procedures.”
Besides, he already learned the tool buying lesson with the carpentry union.
boss mare
6-16-21, 10:29pm
Bae, Although I hate what Seattle has become, if you could Rick Roll a particular on air personality who complains non stop about Seattle but never offers to step up to the plate to help, that would be awesome . He's on from 12-3 and comes "from the mean streets of Ballard" Just kidding
When responses are made they are only based on the tone and words and interpretation made by the reader based on their own background and experiences.
My experience is that working for one company for a lifetime is now a dream for many reasons. My husband was laid off with 5,000 others in 2007 from a Fortune 500 company. The best thing a person can do is to become a valuable asset that is desirable to many employers and to keep up all possible skills. Even the "lowly" (sarcastic) skill of being a cashier can put food on the table. Carpentry is great to do on the side. Many income streams or possibilities will keep a family going in tough times.
Someone told my boss about a young guy working on a potato farm who wants a better job and he sent an application off to him.
happystuff
6-17-21, 11:14am
Skills don't matter much if you know the right people.
In some ways, I agree and in others ways I don't. I knew someone with regards to the custodial job I'm still trying for. After my 2nd interview today, I don't think that relationship will play any part in me getting or not getting the job. I think it DID get me the initial part-time summer gig at the same school last year! But not this potential full-time position.
catherine
6-17-21, 12:53pm
Meandering thoughts.
I don't think there's any one magic bullet to success and prosperity--having a variety of skills is going to really help because a lot of skills are transferrable to many disciplines. Case in point, I trained as an actor in college. Who'd have thunk that those are the skills I call on in my market research profession?
I think that the right attitude is way, way up there in terms of how successful you are. Working hard is a differentiating attribute, and another transferrable skill. Cal Newport wrote a book called "So Good They Can't Ignore You" with the subtitle "Why Skills Trump Passion in the Quest For Work You Love."
After making his case against passion, Newport sets out on a quest to discover the reality of how people end up loving what they do. Spending time with organic farmers, venture capitalists, screenwriters, freelance computer programmers, and others who admitted to deriving great satisfaction from their work, Newport uncovers the strategies they used and the pitfalls they avoided in developing their compelling careers.
Matching your job to a preexisting passion does not matter, he reveals. Passion comes after you put in the hard work to become excellent at something valuable, not before.
In other words, what you do for a living is much less important than how you do it.
I would have no desire to work for one company for my lifetime, but it sounds good for some people. Up here in Vermont many people patch together a bunch of skills to earn a living. My mulch person makes furniture; the local antiques seller plays guitar and sings on the weekends at the local hotel. That's just the way it is, and they seem to be fine.[/I]
There's no one recipe, but here are a few of the ingredients for a good work life:
Grit
Enthusiasm
Work ethic
Desire to learn/ability to learn new things
Knowledge and experience
Ability to connect and communicate with people
iris lilies
6-17-21, 1:04pm
Throughout my library career part of my success was being enthusiastic about doing a job that everyone else hated. That is cool because I liked it! Well I like many parts of it anyway.
iris lilies
6-17-21, 1:05pm
For young people starting out, managers are saying: show up on time. Be neatly dressed and presented. Show enthusiasm and demonstrate basic level capability.
For young people starting out, managers are saying: show up on time. Be neatly dressed and presented. Show enthusiasm and demonstrate basic level capability.
You'd think that's a fairly low bar, right? You don't have to carry 100k of college debt to be neat, punctual, and have a good attitude. But DH and I have both interviewed people whose interview questions to us were "Is there a shopping center close by? I want to be able to shop on my lunch hour." "How often do I have to work past 5pm?"
Being on time and dressed decently seems to be too hard for some young folk.
I don't know that neatness is necessary. We have an employee who wears his pants gangster style down below his butt. He does wear a very long undershirt so you don't see his skin. He has some sort of dermatological condition and has missed work several times as his skin breaks out in a rash and his doctors are trying to get to the bottom of it, so I can see why he can't have a waistband irritating it. He is a good worker.
A customer came into the office the other day (rather than staying in the store) to passively aggressively compliment the one employee not wearing jeans on his dressing professionally, within earshot of all of us in denim. What was the point? How does what we are wearing have any bearing on whether he gets the parts he needs?
All of us help out with physical labor like receiving packages in, pulling orders, in my case climbing up on ladders and cleaning shelves. We are not ornaments.
People need to get with the times if they want to attract help. I would never think of going into a store and criticizing how the staff are dressed. It's irrelevant to whether I am able to find what I need at a reasonable price.
frugal-one
6-17-21, 1:42pm
Meandering thoughts.
I don't think there's any one magic bullet to success and prosperity--having a variety of skills is going to really help because a lot of skills are transferrable to many disciplines. Case in point, I trained as an actor in college. Who'd have thunk that those are the skills I call on in my market research profession?
I think that the right attitude is way, way up there in terms of how successful you are. Working hard is a differentiating attribute, and another transferrable skill. Cal Newport wrote a book called "So Good They Can't Ignore You" with the subtitle "Why Skills Trump Passion in the Quest For Work You Love."
After making his case against passion, Newport sets out on a quest to discover the reality of how people end up loving what they do. Spending time with organic farmers, venture capitalists, screenwriters, freelance computer programmers, and others who admitted to deriving great satisfaction from their work, Newport uncovers the strategies they used and the pitfalls they avoided in developing their compelling careers.
Matching your job to a preexisting passion does not matter, he reveals. Passion comes after you put in the hard work to become excellent at something valuable, not before.
In other words, what you do for a living is much less important than how you do it.
I would have no desire to work for one company for my lifetime, but it sounds good for some people. Up here in Vermont many people patch together a bunch of skills to earn a living. My mulch person makes furniture; the local antiques seller plays guitar and sings on the weekends at the local hotel. That's just the way it is, and they seem to be fine.[/I]
There's no one recipe, but here are a few of the ingredients for a good work life:
Grit
Enthusiasm
Work ethic
Desire to learn/ability to learn new things
Knowledge and experience
Ability to connect and communicate with people
I totally disagree. In my case, I received commendations for my performance in a profession many perceived as valuable but it was NEVER my passion. I would have been much happier doing something else but turns out I was very good at what I did. All I can say is... thankfully it enabled me to retire early.
iris lilies
6-17-21, 1:43pm
Nothing in my post indicates wearing denim is not neat. .Pants hanging down is pretty common here in the hood so a T-shirt covering skin would be fine with me.
Being on time and dressed decently seems to be too hard for some young folk.
In my post-Silicon-Valley career, I have found that showing up 5 mins early, having clean clothes, and paying attention are about 90% of the key to success.
happystuff
6-17-21, 1:48pm
In my post-Silicon-Valley career, I have found that showing up 5 mins early, having clean clothes, and paying attention are about 90% of the key to success.
Yes, I agree that goes along way, but I would also add "timing" i.e. being in the right place at the right time. Getting my last job of 16 years was the result of being in the right place at the right time, along with "who I knew". Keeping that job for that long was my ability to learn and do the various tasks through those years.
ApatheticNoMore
6-17-21, 1:52pm
But DH and I have both interviewed people whose interview questions to us were "Is there a shopping center close by? I want to be able to shop on my lunch hour." "How often do I have to work past 5pm?"
you think they could answer the shopping center question themselves, if it's a big deal then sheesh drive around a bit nearby, even google maps if you don't even want to bother to drive around. The overtime I ask about, working hours are actually a basic parameter of the job. To not ask about that is like saying to not even ask the pay, maybe not right away, but it's something you ought to know going in, you shouldn't accept the job and say "oh btw what were you going to pay me?", or not ask about benefits "oh btw now that I've taken the job can you tell me if I will have health insurance?". I can see not asking about say benefits out of rank desperation but it's something an employee should have a right to know. Hours are on the same basic basic level (unfortunately people can lie about hours so it's harder to be sure).
iris lilies
6-17-21, 2:16pm
The shopping center question is indicative to me of immaturity. That might be OK if you were hiring, oh I don’t know p, in my library shelvers or perhaps clerk one positions in back room operations. People right out of high school would be asking those questions.
"How often do I have to work past 5pm?"
I think the person asking that question benefits themselves with a bit of context. If they're asking because they rely on public transportation or because they have a child to pick up on a timely basis at school or day care, it's not unreasonable to ask the question. If they're asking to determine the company policy on customers/clients who come in seeking full service ten minutes before the business closes for the day, it's informational and indicative of how the company manages its hours. I realize that there are questions prospective employers cannot ask, but there is information that prospective employees can volunteer.
On the other hand, maybe we needed some context about the question from catherine herself. 🤔
On the other hand, maybe we needed some context about the question from catherine herself. ��
You are right--of course there may be legitimate extenuating circumstances where possible overtime would be an issue for a new hire. And I admit that the companies I've worked for have been typically companies with a culture of non-clock-watchers. There were many nights when I "punched out" at 2-3am.
But I think in an interview setting, as ANM alluded to, there are ways to find that information out without making the potential employer wonder if you're a slacker. I hired a project manager once who seemed to be very good and well-qualified. On her first day I took her out to lunch and it was only then I learned that she had just had her second child two weeks prior. She hadn't brought it up in the interview setting. Of course, it would have been fine with me if she had brought it up--I was a working mother myself, but I think prospective employees have to put themselves in the employer's shoes and make sure it's apparent that THEY are the ones being interviewed and not the employer. They come in with a take-it-or-leave-it attitude that's very off-putting.
Some of those practical questions about hours and pay etc. are more discretely asked to HR, not your prospective boss.
This conversation is giving me flashbacks to the awfulness of working for a living and dancing at the end of someone else's puppet strings.
Next life, trust fund.
ApatheticNoMore
6-17-21, 3:22pm
If an employment agreement is indeed such potential employees have a basic right to know the conditions of the agreement. This is really basic. Hours are such a condition. I mean come on if one is trading hours for pay, hello, one has a right to know how many hours that will be, at least a realistic estimate, as well as for how much pay. How else are they supposed to make an informed decision (oh they are supposed to be so desperate as to be near slaves, slaves didn't know how many hours they will work, yes are we hiring employees or slaves?)
Now of course one can't know everything about a job before they take it, so in reality going into a job is a bit of a stab in the dark. And of course in most employees eyes there is a real difference between occasional overtime and regularly working long hours but how hard is it for an employer to explain it as one or the other "occasionally there will be the need to put in overtime for a big project, for black friday, a few times a year" or "we expect you to work part days on saturday as well as monday-friday" etc.. If they are so reluctant it's because they don't want you to know, which borders on deception.
There does not need to be any legitimate extenuating circumstances, and besides who decides those circumstances are so legit anyway, what's so special about those snowflakes? Rather everyone should have a right to know the basic conditions of their employment before they take a job. And no potential employees should not be volunteering any of this irrelevant information like whether they have kids etc., granted lots of info is out on the web anyway, but this is all potential grounds for discrimination. Noone should be "I have kids so could you tell me my work hours" or "I practice the sabbath, do we have to work on weekends?" to just find out what the work hours are. People do try to find out what they can without asking, it's why glassdoor exists, but it's often very hard, and glassdoor tends like most things to get comments with extreme reactions, so everywhere has terrible reviews, but really everywhere isn't terrible, or maybe only is if you work for that one bad boss, but how to know?
This conversation is giving me flashbacks to the awfulness of working for a living and dancing at the end of someone else's puppet strings.
Next life, trust fund.
Haha!! I knew this was going to push buttons somewhere. Sometimes I feel like two people in one body--the one "of the world" and the one "apart" from it. The part "OF the world" tells me that I'm ingrained in this culture, where you learn quickly it's not fun bouncing checks with the lunch lady at your kids' school and having your son made fun of because they're wearing cast-offs from a kid in the neighborhood. So you do what you can to survive which is adopt the persona that is going to enable you to overcome that. You swallow self help books whole and take employment risks and work yourself silly and feign competence so that someday you can send those embarrassed kids to a good school and dress them well and they'll no longer be embarrassed.
The "apart from this world" persona is the one that thinks the basic wage-slave nature of the culture is nuts and that there has to be a better way. The persona that is most comfortable living the simple life. But it was that other world that drove me to where I am today and I'm grateful. I learned a lot about myself, and I learned a lot about other things, too. I was challenged and did things I never thought I could. No regrets, and no apologies.
ApatheticNoMore
6-17-21, 3:55pm
It's ridiculous to think every employee is going to have whatever values you do (and I don't mean whether they are going to do a good job, that's a reasonable thing to expect. Rather, I mean maybe they don't have kids, so sacrificing everything for financing their kids is just NOT a value they have and it would be absurd to think it, maybe their partner makes enough money that that's not a prime concern etc.).
They have a right to make decisions based on their own circumstances. And that means they have a right to know the basics of their employment, pay, hours, benefits, a general outline of what work they will be doing (for instance, don't hire an "bookkeeper" in an ad and that's what they think they will be doing, and make them do sales all day instead, that's just dishonest). Much else about employment is harder to know before you leap. But basic stuff.
It's ridiculous to think every employee is going to have whatever values you do (and I don't mean whether they are going to do a good job, that's a reasonable thing to expect. Rather, I mean maybe they don't have kids, so sacrificing everything for financing their kids is just NOT a value they have and it would be absurd to think it, maybe their partner makes enough money that that's not a prime concern etc.).
They have a right to make decisions based on their own circumstances. And that means they have a right to know the basics of their employment, pay, hours, benefits, a general outline of what work they will be doing (for instance, don't hire an "bookkeeper" in an ad and that's what they think they will be doing, and make them do sales all day instead, that's just dishonest). Much else about employment is harder to know before you leap. But basic stuff.
True. But I do expect an employee to do their job, and if there are two employees to choose from, equally qualified, and one acts like they really want the job and the other one doesn't, I know which one I'm going to pick.
I generally got the jobs I interviewed for, but I had a phone interview with Microsoft where I couldn't even begin to evince an interest in whatever obscure product they were involved with. It was a complete waste of time for both of us.
And I know you're supposed to show almost giddy enthusiasm for the task at hand, but I could rarely manifest that, either. I don't have much of a work ethic, and I'm not ashamed to admit that. I did the job I was assigned, and in some cases more, and earned my pay.
iris lilies
6-17-21, 8:58pm
You are right--of course there may be legitimate extenuating circumstances where possible overtime would be an issue for a new hire. And I admit that the companies I've worked for have been typically companies with a culture of non-clock-watchers. There were many nights when I "punched out" at 2-3am.
But I think in an interview setting, as ANM alluded to, there are ways to find that information out without making the potential employer wonder if you're a slacker. I hired a project manager once who seemed to be very good and well-qualified. On her first day I took her out to lunch and it was only then I learned that she had just had her second child two weeks prior. She hadn't brought it up in the interview setting. Of course, it would have been fine with me if she had brought it up--I was a working mother myself, but I think prospective employees have to put themselves in the employer's shoes and make sure it's apparent that THEY are the ones being interviewed and not the employer. They come in with a take-it-or-leave-it attitude that's very off-putting.
Some of those practical questions about hours and pay etc. are more discretely asked to HR, not your prospective boss.
The ability of HR to answer much of anything practical about a job makes me laugh. But to be fair, they would quickly say there is no overtime because they know wage and hour laws.
I remember one time we were hiring for several positions. One new employee came to work first day expecting to do job A. We had hired her for Job B. She claims HR told her it was A that she got.
I never really straightened that out as to who was primarily responsible for the miscommunication, but because this employee was well-versed in library operations and was pretty smart, I suspect the error was not on her end. Fortunately she did job B until Job A became available a year later which she preferred.
I also always insisted to all of my managers that they must always communicate their chosen candidate in writing to HR. They may not call verbally and tell HR who they want to hire. (.Our HR Dept made job offers.) I feared sloppy communications with HR would result in a rejected candidate being hired.The very last thing I wanted to see was the worst candidate show up to work on the first day of work.
ApatheticNoMore
6-18-21, 2:12am
So you go through the whole pretense and game playing because you can't ask actual things like hours about the job, and so someone gets hired, and then if they hate the hours they end up looking for another job in a year or two anyway. Not such a big win. Maybe they were even desperate at the time, but won't necessarily always be, and maybe they never would have taken that job if they knew what it entailed.
I don't think I mind people asking about hours, it's how they ask. You don't slouch in the chair and say, "How often will I have to work past 5pm?" It would be more like "Tell me about expectations for overtime." or something like that. All I'm saying is, as IL suggested, people who are enthusiastic and confident in interviews win me over every time. They stand out.
happystuff
6-18-21, 10:15am
First interview several weeks ago for the custodial job, I was informed of the hours (changed throughout the year) and the pay. Second interview yesterday, they confirmed that I knew the hours and pay. Rest of discussion was job expectations on each our parts.
When you trade huge blocks of your life for enough money to buy food and pay for a roof over your head, you can't be blamed for feeling resentful about it, but it's your lot to feign enthusiasm for the privilege.
catherine
6-18-21, 11:03am
When you trade huge blocks of your life for enough money to buy food and pay for a roof over your head, you can't be blamed for feeling resentful about it, but it's your lot to feign enthusiasm for the privilege.
Some feign it and some don't. Like everything else, some work experiences are good and some suck. I agree that there are soul-sucking jobs, but if you can find one that is fun and fulfilling for you, that's awesome! And it does happen. And if it doesn't, it is wise and wonderful to be able to become financially independent and quit. To each their own.
iris lilies
6-18-21, 11:10am
Some feign it and some don't. Like everything else, some work experiences are good and some suck. I agree that there are soul-sucking jobs, but if you can find one that is fun and fulfilling for you, that's awesome! And it does happen. And if it doesn't, it is wise and wonderful to be able to become financially independent and quit. To each their own.
Thank you.
Not all jobs are horrible soul sucking jobs. I actually enjoyed mine for decades. There are pieces of it that I didn’t like but I knew I had to do those pieces in order to get to do the pieces that I did like.
When I stopped liking it, I quit.
More Americans can be in charge of their own life and can be self actualized if they would exercise their brains, responsibility to themselves, and tamp down their consumer life.
Not particularly enjoying your job is one thing, constant whining is another. One thing I noticed as an accountant is that whenever we caught someone stealing cash or supplies or misusing equipment, submitting fake payroll records or expense claims, etc., was that they felt they were not being fairly compensated or recognized. Life was unfair, and they were merely rebalancing the scales.
If a job is truly destroying your soul, you should look into changing jobs or working a bit on your soul.
Some feign it and some don't. Like everything else, some work experiences are good and some suck. I agree that there are soul-sucking jobs, but if you can find one that is fun and fulfilling for you, that's awesome! And it does happen. And if it doesn't, it is wise and wonderful to be able to become financially independent and quit. To each their own.
With the right job (literary translator, editor, or similar) and the ability to work from home and not spend half again as much time commuting as I did at work, I would have been OK . Now, there are a lot more tolerable options than there were when I was coming up. People who have found a well-paid calling are a very lucky minority.
Not particularly enjoying your job is one thing, constant whining is another. One thing I noticed as an accountant is that whenever we caught someone stealing cash or supplies or misusing equipment, submitting fake payroll records or expense claims, etc., was that they felt they were not being fairly compensated or recognized. Life was unfair, and they were merely rebalancing the scales.
If a job is truly destroying your soul, you should look into changing jobs or working a bit on your soul.
Profound observation. I watched as 'people' borrowed or took items reminding themselves that no one would notice or it will be fine when it is brought back. I was surprised at who did so and self-justified their actions.
Our local artist group spent the funds to buy a good vacuum to help keep the wooden floored facility clean. A very well-to-do member borrowed it to clean her dog's long hair on her carpets at home, returned it plugged up with dog hair and unable to function when the volunteer did the monthly maintenance. It took a lot of effort to get it running again. I heard the grumbling when doing the repair, asked if anything needed to be said; it was decided to simply mention it at a board meeting asking that it never happen again. It didn't. She bought her own vacuum.
iris lilies
6-18-21, 12:20pm
With the right job (literary translator, editor, or similar) and the ability to work from home and not spend half again as much time commuting as I did at work, I would have been OK . Now, there are a lot more tolerable options than there were when I was coming up. People who have found a well-paid calling are a very lucky minority.
And then there is the idea of “well-paid”.
People in my public library profession yammered about how we were all low paid. I was never bothered by the “low pay” even in my my first professional job out in one of the poorest states in our United States where public service jobs don’t pay much. I was perfectly fine.And that is largely because I had zero debt.
Zero debt is hard to do now, but not-much debt is do-able.
There a young guy over on the Mr. Money Mustache forum whose goal upon graduation is to have a bunch of money in the bank. Cant remember if his goal is $10,000or $100,000, but he is impressive.
It's funny, but my son with the worst paying job is the son who has saved the most money in the bank.
I never would have thought it, but he shared with me the details, and yeah, he is way ahead of the others, at a fraction of what they earn.
Family members who have worked in different settings over the years are amazed at the lack of understanding by those who have enjoyed a good long-term well-paying job with great benefits and a defined pension complain when the % of pay increase is not above the CPI when so many others are struggling to find employment with similar skills sets. It seems when one comes out of college straight into a good job, one takes it for granted to which one is entitled.
happystuff
6-18-21, 1:08pm
Family members who have worked in different settings over the years are amazed at the lack of understanding by those who have enjoyed a good long-term well-paying job with great benefits and a defined pension complain when the % of pay increase is not above the CPI when so many others are struggling to find employment with similar skills sets. It seems when one comes out of college straight into a good job, one takes it for granted to which one is entitled.
Yes, there is a big difference between having the job you enjoy, earning a "decent" salary with ANY benefits and/or pensions versus struggling. And, based on my experiences lately, the processes of searching, finding and getting a job have changed quite a bit in even the last 5 years - let alone the changes since COVID just a year ago! Not liking and just "quitting" is NOT a viable option for a lot of people and finding another is NOT so easy for everyone.
Family members who have worked in different settings over the years are amazed at the lack of understanding by those who have enjoyed a good long-term well-paying job with great benefits and a defined pension complain when the % of pay increase is not above the CPI when so many others are struggling to find employment with similar skills sets. It seems when one comes out of college straight into a good job, one takes it for granted to which one is entitled.
I can remember being amazed several years ago during a debate over changing our state pension plan to require employees to pay half the annual contribution (generally 6-7%). There were people going on television predicting that this would outrage the unpensioned public, who would rally to their cause. You can guess what happened. I heard from other public employees who insisted that they could easily go elsewhere and make twice as much, but I never saw it happen.
It’s strange how many people feel ill-used despite the evidence all around them.
ApatheticNoMore
6-18-21, 1:58pm
I think the whole telling people to get jobs they love (so much it doesn't feel like a job?) is just screwing them over big-time. It's a mind F done to the youth, but generally as with most things I think we are slowly learning, maybe future generations won't be raised this way, I mean really are millenials going to raise their kids that way etc.? I mean if one manages to find such a job great of course, it's not like one shouldn't do it. Just as an *expectation* it's really a mess, it doesn't prepare anyone for a world in which many jobs are kind of a drag but must be done anyway, and where fulfillment should primarily be found outside of work. The focus of life should not be jobs, because it's not where most people get fulfillment, it's really unhealthy to focus on jobs so much (not that one doesn't need them of course). It's not a helpful and really IMO it's a harmful way to prepare young people for the rest of their lives. Yes fine prepare them with the expectation to work (unless they have a trust fund) but not to need to find it anything but a practical necessity.
family members who have worked in different settings over the years are amazed at the lack of understanding by those who have enjoyed a good long-term well-paying job with great benefits and a defined pension complain when the % of pay increase is not above the CPI when so many others are struggling to find employment with similar skills sets. It seems when one comes out of college straight into a good job, one takes it for granted to which one is entitled.
yea I don't think that has actually happened much for decades (it all seems very ok boomer and I half expect to hear it wasn't even true then), but it still happens rarely, i contracted at such a place (no of course there is no way they were ever giving me a full time job and they REALLY liked my work, but you just don't get into a *pensioned* (!!!!!) job that easy).
happystuff
6-18-21, 2:05pm
The focus of life should not be jobs, because it's not where most people get fulfillment, it's really really unhealthy to focus on jobs so much (not that one doesn't need them of course). It's not a helpful and really IMO a pretty harmful way to prepare young people for the rest of their lives.
My newest work motto (especially when they spring mandatory OT and say "think of the money!") is: I work to live; I don't live to work.
The best things in my life so far have pretty much all been outside of "work".
Teacher Terry
6-18-21, 2:40pm
I went to graduate school a second time to train for a career I knew I would love. I was at the height of the pay scale after 15 years and made 62k with a master’s degree. 4K of that went to my pension. I was fine with that because I loved my work. It was much more important to like working versus making the big bucks.
happystuff
6-19-21, 11:48am
I went to graduate school a second time to train for a career I knew I would love. I was at the height of the pay scale after 15 years and made 62k with a master’s degree. 4K of that went to my pension. I was fine with that because I loved my work. It was much more important to like working versus making the big bucks.
This did give me a little chuckle and a reminder that "perception" is so important. I would LOVE to make 62k right now and would definitely consider it "making the big bucks". LOL. The closest I ever came to that kind of a salary was way back when as a programmer.
I do agree about it being important to like the work, but - again - not everyone has that option.
This did give me a little chuckle and a reminder that "perception" is so important. I would LOVE to make 62k right now and would definitely consider it "making the big bucks". LOL. The closest I ever came to that kind of a salary was way back when as a programmer.
I do agree about it being important to like the work, but - again - not everyone has that option.
I have never made $62K although I live in a high cost of living state. I have a master's degree.
iris lilies
6-19-21, 12:33pm
I went to graduate school a second time to train for a career I knew I would love. I was at the height of the pay scale after 15 years and made 62k with a master’s degree. 4K of that went to my pension. I was fine with that because I loved my work. It was much more important to like working versus making the big bucks.
Well that’s what my parents always said was the goal of a college degree that will get you a job. The goal isn’t to make a lot of money. the goal is to have access to many choices for jobs that you would enjoy.
iris lilies
6-19-21, 12:41pm
I can remember being amazed several years ago during a debate over changing our state pension plan to require employees to pay half the annual contribution (generally 6-7%). There were people going on television predicting that this would outrage the unpensioned public, who would rally to their cause. You can guess what happened. I heard from other public employees who insisted that they could easily go elsewhere and make twice as much, but I never saw it happen.
It’s strange how many people feel ill-used despite the evidence all around them.
yes. I distinctly remember our Head honcho saying to the administrative staff something like “I know you all can make so much more money elsewhere so I appreciate you all being here” but only our IT guys could, and perhaps the finance people. He said this to be kind and complementary as he always was, but I don’t think it’s especially kind to encourage delusion.
I remember the public employee debacle up north there. That’s pretty interesting that so many people thought they would see support from taxpayers at their refusal to fund their own pension.
I am super Duper happy having a pension from my city for however long it lasts. It is the critical mass amount of monthly income that allows us to be not at all worried about our finances. If it went away tomorrow we would still be fine because we have multi prong ways to access money, but boy does the pension act as a relief valve.
ApatheticNoMore
6-19-21, 1:28pm
This did give me a little chuckle and a reminder that "perception" is so important. I would LOVE to make 62k right now and would definitely consider it "making the big bucks". LOL. The closest I ever came to that kind of a salary was way back when as a programmer.
I do agree about it being important to like the work, but - again - not everyone has that option.
yea perception, I've figured 50k (gross, oh we definitely have state income tax) is minimum needed here to have a studio apartment and pay other bills, maybe save a small amount for retirement, basically to live on. And that's not a budget with much slack and there are times I need slack (ack I'm losing my mind need therapy etc.). But it's you can live on it without being another day older and deeper in debt, the basics get met, you don't have to have a bunch of roommates probably. You can live on less with *several* roommates perhaps.
But then I do live in a high cost of living area, I suspect I would find most "high cost of living areas" quite affordable in comparison (the exceptions being NYC or SFO bay area - that ain't cheap, I could probably make more than I do here in SFO though, there are more opportunities).
I was probably one of the last group of employees to get a decent pension and paid health insurance from the state university where I worked in admin positions for many years...and that was only five years ago. I am extremely grateful for it but also know that nothing is guaranteed in the future where pensions are concerned. I try to imagine what I would do now if I were 18 all over again.
Teacher Terry
6-19-21, 2:39pm
Ypejji, what’s your master’s degree in? I did have to leave Wisconsin to use it because vocational evaluation is a tiny speciality field and the best college was in Wisconsin. Each state only employs 4-10 evaluators but the good news is there’s a shortage of people with degrees in that speciality. If I had went into forensic vocational rehabilitation they bill between 200-350/hour. It’s stressful because you testify in court frequently getting grilled by lawyers. That’s where the big bucks are.
The medium money is to work in private for a company. I don’t have the temperament to be at ease with testifying. I could have done private work but then your focus is not the client since you are paid by the insurance company. Plus I wanted a pension. Where I live has a HCOL. Reno was rated the 21st most unaffordable city. In contrast a friend of mine has a BA and started with the Feds as a clerk typist. She rose to paralegal and made 100k/year.
happystuff
6-19-21, 7:22pm
Well that’s what my parents always said was the goal of a college degree that will get you a job. The goal isn’t to make a lot of money. the goal is to have access to many choices for jobs that you would enjoy.
Unfortunately, a college degree is no longer a guarantee that you will get a job, let alone one that is "enjoyed".
Teacher Terry
6-19-21, 8:38pm
Yppej, why not take the classes necessary for a teaching certification? Some states are so desperate for teachers that they have a special program where they hire and then give them time to obtain the credentials. The days of any college degree leading to a job are long gone. You need to make sure it translates into a specific field, area, etc to be useful. I learned this the hard way with my BA being worthless.
Yppej, why not take the classes necessary for a teaching certification? Some states are so desperate for teachers that they have a special program where they hire and then give them time to obtain the credentials. The days of any college degree leading to a job are long gone. You need to make sure it translates into a specific field, area, etc to be useful. I learned this the hard way with my BA being worthless.
I have so many years in the private sector paying into Social Security I want to maximize it. If I switch to the public sector I would mess that up. If in the public sector long enough I would get a pension, but the pension would reduce my SS benefits and I think I would be worse off.
Also, I taught for a year and a half as a longterm substitute, certified at the time, and the politics in the school system drove me nuts. While there is some patronage, cronyism and nepotism in the private sector in my experience it pales in comparison to what goes on in local and state government.
Teacher Terry
6-20-21, 12:32am
I didn’t realize your state was one of the few that didn’t pay into SS. It would definitely be a mistake at your age. Nevada is the same way but I don’t think I came out worse because I had a fair number of years out of the job market. Lots of politics, who you know, etc in state service also.
I didn’t realize your state was one of the few that didn’t pay into SS. It would definitely be a mistake at your age. Nevada is the same way but I don’t think I came out worse because I had a fair number of years out of the job market. Lots of politics, who you know, etc in state service also.
Maine is the same way with SS and teaching; it's a big problem.
yes. I distinctly remember our Head honcho saying to the administrative staff something like “I know you all can make so much more money elsewhere so I appreciate you all being here” but only our IT guys could, and perhaps the finance people. He said this to be kind and complementary as he always was, but I don’t think it’s especially kind to encourage delusion.
I remember the public employee debacle up north there. That’s pretty interesting that so many people thought they would see support from taxpayers at their refusal to fund their own pension.
I am super Duper happy having a pension from my city for however long it lasts. It is the critical mass amount of monthly income that allows us to be not at all worried about our finances. If it went away tomorrow we would still be fine because we have multi prong ways to access money, but boy does the pension act as a relief valve.
What I found in local government was that the IT staff who maintained their skills and certs and built up a decent resume often did leave for substantially more money. The ones who just sort of coasted with outdated skills clung on for dear life until they could retire. It was pretty easy to identify who fell into which category.
I agree that a pension can be a valuable thing, especially if you don’t particularly enjoy managing money or have trouble summoning up the discipline needed to save on your own. But I think people sometimes overestimate it’s importance.
The boss offered any customer who can get us a new employee a steak dinner. One man has already referred two people, one of whom was interviewed the other day. I am cautiously optimistic.
The boss offered any customer who can get us a new employee a steak dinner. One man has already referred two people, one of whom was interviewed the other day. I am cautiously optimistic.
Personally I'd make it a steak dinner for both the referrer and the new employee. No one's going to refer someone they wouldn't be willing to break bread with at an event like that. And it'd be a great opportunity to build relationships all the way around.
Today I heard Keene, NH advertising on the radio for police officers and other jobs in the police department. I have never heard a public sector entity go on the air to try to recruit employees before. No mention was made of having to attend the police academy, just being a citizen who wants to serve the community. The spot also talked about career paths including becoming a detective.
gimmethesimplelife
10-16-21, 2:25am
In my neck of the woods, bar owners are having a high turnover of waitstaff. In their view, standards must be maintained. They will hire freely, but if an employee is not able to perform up to standards, he or she is fired. There has been some grumbling from customers, disappointed with service or food preparation.These bar owners/managers would not be able to staff any position in Phoenix right now. Lowly paid folks are taking full advantage of the sudden leverage they have. I've had two prior restaurants I worked at call me asking if I could even work just one shift a week. It's even more intense than the bonanza of tipped hospitality jobs available at the end of the Clinton Years.
For myself the only way I'd take a food service job is wait tables or be homeless. It's just too much insanity for too little reward. Problem is - economy wide workers are realizing that too many jobs overall are too much insanity, too little reward. SO, who is again waiting tables tells me that new hires are quitting mid shift. Or new hires are realistically asking for too much and either never show up after being hired or just walking away from f and b period.
I'll say it again....I really am fortunate. There are times I feel almost guilty as without the pandemic created job market, it would have been much harder for me to switch industries. I'm not so dazzled by my abilities that I don't understand this. I just tell myself I've paid and paid and paid my dues. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
10-16-21, 2:38am
Unfortunately, a college degree is no longer a guarantee that you will get a job, let alone one that is "enjoyed".You speak truth here, HS. I can't even begin to believe how much less expensive college was say 30 years ago. There are no guarantees, and couple that with large amounts of debt to attend college to begin with as one is starting out - not anything I'd sign up for.
I am not surprised when I hear that many.young men are going the trades route. I salute them, I really do, for getting an actual skill - they are smart enough to realize that no employer is going to train them these days, and they seem to understand the concept ot large amounts of debt with no guarantee is not a good deal. Rob
Trade school can be expensive too, but not like college. A coworker's son paid $30,000 to go to diesel mechanic school and now he earns $40 an hour.
Nothing like the nurses though making $60 an hour straight and $90 an hour with overtime. They have really made out financially in this pandemic and that's only a two year degree.
I’ve often thought it would be a good idea to have some king of leaving exam for undergraduates covering some of the basic skills employers might be interested in: math, communication, logic, etc. I know educators seem in general to be hostile to standardized tests, so it would be a long, hard political fight. You would hear a lot about “the real purpose of education” and “equity”, but I think it would be valuable for comparing job candidates and their schools. Certainly more objective than the various surveys you see published.
You could make it voluntary and let employers draw their own conclusions about the scores presence or absence.
happystuff
10-16-21, 3:09pm
I’ve often thought it would be a good idea to have some king of leaving exam for undergraduates covering some of the basic skills employers might be interested in: math, communication, logic, etc. I know educators seem in general to be hostile to standardized tests, so it would be a long, hard political fight. You would hear a lot about “the real purpose of education” and “equity”, but I think it would be valuable for comparing job candidates and their schools. Certainly more objective than the various surveys you see published.
You could make it voluntary and let employers draw their own conclusions about the scores presence or absence.
I know some employers, themselves, used to test applicants. At least, I have applied for a couple of jobs and have had to take an exam/test of one kind or another.
I took tests for many of the jobs that I applied for, well-independent of anything I studied in school.
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