View Full Version : Restaurant Equity Charges
I haven’t seen it anywhere I’ve dined recently, but I hear some restaurants are tacking on an “equity charge” for their staff to reflect the fact that some customers tip insufficiently or unfairly based on various identity criteria. Traditional tipping is still allowed. I’m not sure how the management would determine how to distribute that money.
They could simply pay their employees more, but I suppose that wouldn’t provide the same opportunity for moral exhibitionism. I’m not sure how eager I would be to dine somewhere that considers me too cheap or bigoted to decide how much to tip for myself.
iris lilies
6-30-21, 11:26am
Count me out of those dining establishments.
happystuff
6-30-21, 11:52am
For any "extra" charges I get on a restaurant bill, I usually deduct that from what I would normally have tipped and then just tip the difference. Sometimes I will actually write out the calculation on the bill so they will know what I did. (i.e. I tipped you less because you charged me extra.)
I have heard of some restaurants doing away with tipping altogether because wait staff earn so much more than the staff in the kitchen and they think it's unfair, but not this latest twist.
ApatheticNoMore
6-30-21, 12:27pm
because wait staff earn so much more than the staff in the kitchen and they think it's unfair, but not this latest twist.
what a bunch of jerks, they could just raise the pay on the kitchen staff. Restaurants sometimes seem run by the worst jerks imaginable. One wants to feel good about eating out when they do, but the industry is so exploitative.
But the reality is the kitchen staff is illegal immigrants, at least here, and everyone knows it. The wait staff is usually not. And illegal immigrants aren't necessarily paid as well as legal workers in ANY INDUSTRY.
Teacher Terry
6-30-21, 1:22pm
It’s a bad idea but here they get paid minimum wage. My DIL is a cocktail waitress and she is making more money than ever in tips. People are happy to be out and Californians think things are cheap here:)).
frugal-one
6-30-21, 1:42pm
I have heard of some restaurants doing away with tipping altogether because wait staff earn so much more than the staff in the kitchen and they think it's unfair, but not this latest twist.
Unless you live in a state where the tipped wage is still $2.13/hour. Just wish restaurants would pay a living wage.
Just wish restaurants would pay a living wage.
Bingo.
Right now here we have local restaurant owners complaining that they can't hire help. They typially blame the lack of affordable housing. The answer they typically propose involves the County and taxpayers swooping in to build affordable housing.... For the restaurant's employees. Which just seems like asking for taxpayer support for your practice of paying a substandard wage.
iris lilies
6-30-21, 3:14pm
Bingo.
Right now here we have local restaurant owners complaining that they can't hire help. They typially blame the lack of affordable housing. The answer they typically propose involves the County and taxpayers swooping in to build affordable housing.... For the restaurant's employees. Which just seems like asking for taxpayer support for your practice of paying a substandard wage.
Here in the land of affordable flyover country they still can’t get restaurant workers. Even at the high-end restaurants. For my birthday last month we went to a higher restaurant, not on a Friday or Saturday, and a little earlier than the usual high dinner hour of 7 to 8:30.
The head honcho turned us away saying he didn’t have enough staff to service those who didn’t have a reservation.
Here in Indy, it looks like a lot of new tiny restaurants have opened that are mostly ethnic varieties. Perhaps the back kitchen staff have had a chance to figure out how to open their own spot? We even have a combo Mexican/Chinese place which I think is hilarious. Gets good reviews.
My son, the restaurant server, was just telling me that in one of the popular restaurants they have decided on a tip pool where the tips that servers get would be pooled and then distributed equally across servers, bus people, kitchen staff, and even chefs.
There must be some details that his "source" is not clear on because this is really unfair. Server base pay is $5/hr. And yes, I agree that anyone, kitchen staff or server, who isn't getting a decent hourly wage, should get one, but I don't understand how cutting server tips in half is going to help employers find help, unless they hire robots.
ApatheticNoMore
6-30-21, 8:00pm
We even have a combo Mexican/Chinese place which I think is hilarious.
that is apparently a common thing, perhaps due to Chinese immigration to Mexico but who knows (maybe that place just does good business), so I wondered since a bunch of such places seem to exist, is it fusion cusine, but apparently mostly not. And then there is Chinese Peruvian food.
In my waiter days back in the Precambrian era I always though waiters made a pretty decent wage with tips, relative to the skills required. It probably depends a lot on the popularity and turnover of the place. Tips were an incentive to be faster or more polite or organized. We gave a percent of tips to bus people for a similar reason. Matter of fact, I'm sort of surprised there is a wait staff shortage because the pay was so decent. But that was a while back.
Routine kitchen help earned less and one could argue the job required fewer skills, but was a hard job. Chefs or head cooks were well paid. I suspect by today's standards kitchen staff were underpaid or were not earning a living wage. It would not make sense to me to share tips with kitchen help, but their fair wages should be up to the owners/managers.
What our news has covered on restaurant staff shortages is not so much on pay, but that many of the tourist areas have seen such a huge rise in real estate prices that workers can't afford the high cost of housing or rentals. A recent article about one of the popular mountain town tourist destinations featured workers who were camping in public camping areas because they couldn't afford housing.
ToomuchStuff
7-1-21, 12:52am
Never had a full fledged "waiter" job. Was a server and had a local famous place (Stephenson's), that one of the owners wanted me to go to work for him/them and leave my restaurant job (at that job, I did everything). I fed him his last meal, as that night he had a stroke and lived in a coma type state until he passed.
I stayed where I was at, and saw many of those that worked for Lloyd, worked and paid their way through college.
Thankfully, our base pay was setup as more, because I was rarely tipped, as I was mistaken for one of the owners, or thought to be their kid.
Now, I have recently talked to a kid, that switched restaurants, going to work for $20 an hour as a prep cook.
In our area, local restaurants helped a lot of teens learn to work together to a standard and put themselves through post-secondary school. DH and I always tried to support their efforts with our tips. It was a win-win-win approach.
gimmethesimplelife
7-1-21, 10:23am
One thing as a long time survivor of the hospitality industry that I am hoping for as a result of Covid and the seemingly wholesale reevaluation of the entire concept of working to begin with - I'd love to see restaurant prices go up say 15% with ALL staff (front and back of the house) getting a wage within spitting distance of being livable and not fear based survival which is so common in this industry. Seriously, my story getting out of the business is somewhat rare - though right now it's not as unachievable at least here locally as it has been for years - not a day goes by when I am not grateful to have moved out of restaurants/hotels/resorts.
Right now changes are coming to hospitality big time. Example? The current CEO of Hilton is stating that pandemic related service cuts will be permanent, and that the hotel business will emerge from the pandemic a higher margin business, achieving this partly through less labor cost. Two specific areas of cutbacks - forget daily room cleaning - it's not happening. Untold number of housekeepers have been permanently let go. And in F and B, less on site dining and many hotels scrapping room service entirely.
The business is not going to be what is once was going forward, even if profitability returns (speaking from an employee perspective and slightly from a traveler perspective). Rob
iris lilies
7-1-21, 10:40am
I think daily cleaning of hotels rooms is dumb anyway. I think daily changing of sheets and towels in hotels is a ridiculous waste of resources.
gimmethesimplelife
7-1-21, 10:45am
I think daily cleaning of hotels rooms is dumb anyway. I think daily changing of sheets and towels in hotels is a ridiculous waste of resources.Fair enough - but what of all the laid off housekeepers, estimated to be an average of age 45? (I read this online an a hotel industry blog). I'm not entirely is disagreeance with you here, IL, just to be clear, but I do believe that daily housekeeping became an expectation in the 50's and 60's as the standard of living increased and more people had time to break away and use the new Interstate Highway System to travel. Daily housekeeping made one feel special I'm told until it became expected - it was as if you were truly on vacation as someone else was dealing with cleaning up/picking up.
I agree that it is a bit of a waste - but once again to some it's an ingrained expectation. Rob
Fair enough - but what of all the laid off housekeepers, estimated to be an average of age 45? (I read this online an a hotel industry blog). I'm not entirely is disagreeance with you here, IL, just to be clear, but I do believe that daily housekeeping became an expectation in the 50's and 60's as the standard of living increased and more people had time to break away and use the new Interstate Highway System to travel. Daily housekeeping made one feel special I'm told until it became expected - it was as if you were truly on vacation as someone else was dealing with cleaning up/picking up.
I agree that it is a bit of a waste - but once again to some it's an ingrained expectation. Rob
We went to NJ last month to visit our grandkids (oh, I guess we saw our son/DIL, too, LOL). We stayed at a local hotel, and the second day I walked in to the room, and saw no one had made up the bed. As most of you know, I'm a frequent "flier" and while working, stay in hotels probably a week out of every month, so my default response was, "what the heck??" After a few moments I tied together the used sheets with COVID.
That being said, when hotels started going "green" and giving us deals like free coffee if we agree to not have our towels changed every day I was ALL IN. So, after they sort out the difficulties in having to reduce labor, I think eliminating daily housekeeping is a positive outcome of COVID.
iris lilies
7-1-21, 11:45am
Fair enough - but what of all the laid off housekeepers, estimated to be an average of age 45? (I read this online an a hotel industry blog). I'm not entirely is disagreeance with you here, IL, just to be clear, but I do believe that daily housekeeping became an expectation in the 50's and 60's as the standard of living increased and more people had time to break away and use the new Interstate Highway System to travel. Daily housekeeping made one feel special I'm told until it became expected - it was as if you were truly on vacation as someone else was dealing with cleaning up/picking up.
I agree that it is a bit of a waste - but once again to some it's an ingrained expectation. Rob
Yes I have twice now run into that “ingrained expectation. “Just recently was a couple weeks ago when I went to a flower show event and stayed in a nice motel.They had little signs in our rooms saying they wouldn’t change towels and etc. unless we ask for it. One of the flower show ladies complained about no clean towels. I told her there was a sign in a room but she had not read it.
Another time, years ago, We stayed in a hotel for a flower show event and one of my compatriots complained about the new—then— option of not changing sheets. She sound like a spoiled princess. She said when “I pay for a hotel I expect to have fresh towels and sheets every day.” Ok Princess.
I can’t live my life in order to keep people employed liked housekeepers at something I don’t value. I am far more likely to patronize restaurants (which I did during Covid) and tip well because that is an industry and service I value.
I can’t live my life in order to keep people employe liked housekeepers at something I don’t value. I am far more likely to patronize restaurants (which I did during Covid) and tip,well because that is an industry and service I value.
I religiously tip housekeeping staff because they are the "unseen heroes" of a pleasant stay. It bugs me that people like bellmen and valets (typically male) get the Benjamins for 5 minutes work and many people completely disregard the housekeepers who spend a half hour cleaning disgusting crap out of your bathroom and do back-breaking work to give you 8 hours of sleep in a clean bed. So I DO value the service that housekeepers give me.
When I traveled, I regularly left big tips because I felt housekeepers earned anything I could give them. At least two of my relatives worked their way through college cleaning hotel rooms.
Reducing hotel staff will undoubtedly be a thing outside of the large cities but in most large cities hotel staff are unionized. There won't be any changes to the way hotels are run in unionized hotels anytime soon because that would require having contract negotiations, which just isn't going to happen mid-contract. And even when the contracts come up for renewal the unions have enough power that they will prevent major changes that result in the loss of jobs for many members.
iris lilies
7-1-21, 12:17pm
I religiously tip housekeeping staff because they are the "unseen heroes" of a pleasant stay. It bugs me that people like bellmen and valets (typically male) get the Benjamins for 5 minutes work and many people completely disregard the housekeepers who spend a half hour cleaning disgusting crap out of your bathroom and do back-breaking work to give you 8 hours of sleep in a clean bed. So I DO value the service that housekeepers give me.
well, in truth all of the attention I get from hotel staff creeps me out a little. I like anonymity, so anyone carrying my bags or etc is not a comfortable experience. Just check me in dude and then leave me alone.
One place I stayed in recent times had a the policy that they will come into your room once every three days regardless of any “do not disturb” door sign, and that is for the introverts like me. I suppose they have to make sure you’re not making meth in the bathtub or hiding a dead body. Also trash removal is important for pest control, especially now as more hotels have food prep equipment in the rooms. The Holiday Inn where I stayed last month had refrigerator and microwave.
gimmethesimplelife
7-1-21, 12:19pm
Reducing hotel staff will undoubtedly be a thing outside of the large cities but in most large cities hotel staff are unionized. There won't be any changes to the way hotels are run in unionized hotels anytime soon because that would require having contract negotiations, which just isn't going to happen mid-contract. And even when the contracts come up for renewal the unions have enough power that they will prevent major changes that result in the loss of jobs for many members.jp1 - this is true for some hotel properties, true - but I can also tell you that in the Phoenix market, make that Arizona at large - I can't think of a single unionized property. Perhaps the Hyatt Regency Downtown? I think (possibly???) they are Union but I can't think of any other Arizona hotels that are. Maybe the Sheraton downtown? No Arizona property I have ever worked at has been union.
My point? Unionization may impede this process in some places but it's not a standardized, nationwide kind of thing. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-1-21, 12:22pm
well, in truth all of the attention I get from hotel staff creeps me out a little. I like anonymity, so anyone carrying my bags or etc is not a comfortable experience. Just check me in dude and then leave me alone.
One place I stayed in recent times had a the policy that they will come into your room once every three days regardless of any “do not disturb” door sign, and that is for the introverts like me. I suppose they have to make sure you’re not making meth in the bathtub or hiding a dead body. Also trash removal is important for pest control, especially now as more hotels have food prep equipment in the rooms. The Holiday Inn where I stayed last month had refrigerator and microwave.Remember my post a few months ago regarding my friend from my college days who is actively trainwrecking his life via drugs and alcohol and who goes from mid range hotel to mid range hotel to indulge, get evicted, and then sent to the nearest hospital via police/firefighter/ambulance interaction/drama?
This may be a reason why there is that three day policy to check on rooms - especially in a border state like Arizona where drugs are a huge problem and the surplus moves on to plague other states. Rob
Teacher Terry
7-1-21, 1:51pm
I always tip the housekeepers but don’t need towels and sheets changed every day.
Remember my post a few months ago regarding my friend from my college days who is actively trainwrecking his life via drugs and alcohol and who goes from mid range hotel to mid range hotel to indulge, get evicted, and then sent to the nearest hospital via police/firefighter/ambulance interaction/drama?
This may be a reason why there is that three day policy to check on rooms - especially in a border state like Arizona where drugs are a huge problem and the surplus moves on to plague other states. Rob
Two of my acquaintances ended their lives in a hotel room (one accidental OD and the other not accidental), and were found by housekeeping. I think the 3-day policy is reasonable.
Our local news today featured stories about a several restaurants that were offering a thousand to twenty five hundred dollars as a sign on bonus for servers and kitchen help willing to commit to 60 to 90 days of employment. The report claimed the wage of one place for kitchen help was $20 and hour. Yet they still seemed to be having trouble finding help. Less so for larger places that offered health insurance, paid vacations, 401Ks, etc.
As a side note, the news also had a recent feature about how federal firefighter's wage could be as low as $13.00 and hour.
Our local news today featured stories about a several restaurants that were offering a thousand to twenty five hundred dollars as a sign on bonus for servers and kitchen help willing to commit to 60 to 90 days of employment. The report claimed the wage of one place for kitchen help was $20 and hour. Yet they still seemed to be having trouble finding help. Less so for larger places that offered health insurance, paid vacations, 401Ks, etc.
As a side note, the news also had a recent feature about how federal firefighter's wage could be as low as $13.00 and hour.
I thought Biden put some policy in place that Federal workers including contractors for the Federal government had to pay $15 an hour.
I thought Biden put some policy in place that Federal workers including contractors for the Federal government had to pay $15 an hour.
i think that was very recent, but still a pittance for the risk and harsh conditions. It’s starting wage at fast food joints around here.
jp1 - this is true for some hotel properties, true - but I can also tell you that in the Phoenix market, make that Arizona at large - I can't think of a single unionized property. Perhaps the Hyatt Regency Downtown? I think (possibly???) they are Union but I can't think of any other Arizona hotels that are. Maybe the Sheraton downtown? No Arizona property I have ever worked at has been union.
My point? Unionization may impede this process in some places but it's not a standardized, nationwide kind of thing. Rob
True. And probably also true of most southern cities since those states tend to be more antagonistic towards workers. I know from SO’s work that NYC, LA, all of the San Francisco Bay Area, San Diego, Chicago, Boston, most of Hawaii, DC, and Philly are all mainly union towns for hotel workers.
I've never belonged to a union, but about a month ago, I had an individual knock on my door out of the blue. Seems someone gave my name as a potential individual to work towards getting a union at the warehouse. Wouldn't give me the contact name and I have since found out that others at work were also contacted. I informed the individual that I was job-hunting and didn't intend to be there that long. (Turns out, no lie!) Others I've spoken to about it are concerned about the impact any participation may have on their jobs.
Just saying that it was an interesting interaction - one I've never experienced before.
I've never belonged to a union, but about a month ago, I had an individual knock on my door out of the blue. Seems someone gave my name as a potential individual to work towards getting a union at the warehouse. Wouldn't give me the contact name and I have since found out that others at work were also contacted. I informed the individual that I was job-hunting and didn't intend to be there that long. (Turns out, no lie!) Others I've spoken to about it are concerned about the impact any participation may have on their jobs.
Just saying that it was an interesting interaction - one I've never experienced before.
Adding: new job is unionized. Interesting how things turn out. LOL.
Adding: new job is unionized. Interesting how things turn out. LOL.
I'm hoping that's a good thing for you. I'm slightly biased towards unions because of all the work my MIL did as the VP of one, and also, I like to see people's interests adequately represented and acknowledged.
My son was a child actor, and during that time when he worked through Screen Actor's Guild to get his paychecks, I was so thankful for what that union does for performing artists. As a result of the few things my son has done in the industry, he actually will get a pension when he's 65 of about $300. Plus he STILL gets residuals for work he did years ago. If it weren't for the Screen Actor's Union, most actors would be sorely taken advantage of and probably make nothing off their work.
Having grown up in the Detroit area, I have a very jaded view of unions from watching the UAW BS. My dad worked for Ford, but he was white collar.
SO is part of management for several union hotels. The unions he deals with aren’t perfect but they do a good job of protecting their members. And they let fail the members who don’t deserve to be protected. It’s a tight balance but if both management and the union are reasonable it can be good for both sides.
(Side note the union has tried to get SO on their team but they can’t afford to offer him the money/benefits he gets as management)
I'm grateful I was lucky enough to have a union so that I was treated equitably and rewarded with a pension. We need far more unionization in this country.
Teacher Terry
7-4-21, 2:11pm
Before unions my grandfather had to work whatever hours he was told and the workers had to provide free labor at their bosses house if they wanted to keep their jobs. My mom said she rarely saw her dad until the factory got a union. My dad was a union steward.
I have also seen the other side when I worked for Inryco in the office we were non union but paid well. The factory was union also paid well. The parent company Inland Steel was having financial problems and started a campaign to both save the company money by paying for ideas and why they couldn’t afford raises one year. This was in the late 70’s. In Milwaukee at the time they were doing great between money and benefits. They couldn’t do better anywhere else. The union wouldn’t agree to no raises and broke the company.
At American Motors later in Kenosha the workers wisely chose a different path when faced with the same situation and my husband and many of our friends worked there at the time.
The other side of unions in my view is demonstrated by police unions, that seem to exist to protect the worst among their membership.
gimmethesimplelife
7-5-21, 9:40pm
The other side of unions in my view is demonstrated by police unions, that seem to exist to protect the worst among their membership.Very good point, Jane. Ironic, isn't it? In almost all other cases I'm very pro Union - but not in this one, for reasons I don't need to elaborate on at this late date. Rob
ApatheticNoMore
7-6-21, 1:03am
Well the other side is when unions are fighting climate change legislation (and this is NOT new, some unions have done so for awhile, fought climate change legislation, climate change candidates etc.):
https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/06/28/california-democrats-are-reliably-pro-labor-but-one-union-is-testing-their-patience-1386963
unions give workers more power in their employment collectively, the problem is some employment should not even exist.
gimmethesimplelife
7-6-21, 10:38am
Well the other side is when unions are fighting climate change legislation (and this is NOT new, some unions have done so for awhile, fought climate change legislation, climate change candidates etc.):
https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/06/28/california-democrats-are-reliably-pro-labor-but-one-union-is-testing-their-patience-1386963
unions give workers more power in their employment collectively, the problem is some employment should not even exist.Due to my oft repeated posting that I am avoiding controversy I will not directly address that in your post which I find of interest other than to say - interesting take regarding some employment should not even exist - especially in light of union(s). I wonder what other folks take is on this - but I also don't want to start issues/controversy. Rob
Teacher Terry
7-6-21, 3:29pm
Curious what employment shouldn’t exist?
ApatheticNoMore
7-6-21, 4:02pm
Curious what employment shouldn’t exist?
Employment in the fossil fuel industry ultimately. It could be argued many other things as well, but that was what the article was about, unions fighting climate change legislation. I've seen this happen up close and local. Fossil fuel unions campaign to derail excellent candidates with strong climate platforms.
Teacher Terry
7-6-21, 7:15pm
I somehow missed the link to the article you posted. Thanks for telling me.
Lots of employment shouldn't exist. Human trafficking comes to mind.
gimmethesimplelife
9-19-21, 11:41am
Interesting that I have spent so many years in the restaurant business and now with the shortage of labor, employees now have some leverage against their employers and are not the slightest bit reluctant to use this leverage. All I can say is that I am glad, glad, glad, to be out of the business and I know this sounds horrible, but in a way I am grateful for the coronavirus - without the virus related changes to the job market, likely I would not have the much more stable grocery job I now have. I even just was given a raise! A whole dollar an hour!
I understand there is something new going on with restaurant hires called "ghosting coasting" where new hires work long enough to get paid and then disappear to the next restaurant where they do such again. Were I in management, this would be very stressful but I can TOTALLY understand why this is going on. To be frank, restaurant work is a nightmare even under the best of conditions, and most restaurant workers are not working under the rarified air of the best conditions. I feel solidarity with those using leverage against their employers but i will not be doing so as I've finally found a place where I am treated halfway decently - though to be fair I was treated decently at the Convention Center, too.
I'm thinking, knowing the industry as I do that restaurants are going to be revamped to a structure - same as is going on in hotels- where there is less need for employees period. I'm thinking more eateries will be takeout/delivery only with only counter workers and back of the house staff - no servers or bussers or hosts or even dishwashers necessary. The CEO of Hilton has stated that virus service and amenity cuts will be permanent and that this CEO sees a future of hotels being a higher margin business with less labor overall needed.
I saw a glimpse of this last Fall when I did a mystery shop of an airport business hotel. F and B options were a free to go only breakfast in the morning and there was minimal f and b staff. There was no airport shuttle driver, no concierge, and only one front desk clerk who had numerous duties away from the front desk so that front desk was not continually staffed. It's a brave new world in hospitality......just glad I'm out of it. Rob
happystuff
9-19-21, 12:43pm
We don't go out to eat too often either, so when we do, I tend to tip at least 20% - as long as the service is good and it usually is. I have/had children that worked in food service and they have stressed upon me how important decent tipping is. LOL.
iris lilies
9-19-21, 12:53pm
Very good point, Jane. Ironic, isn't it? In almost all other cases I'm very pro Union - but not in this one, for reasons I don't need to elaborate on at this late date. Rob
Ironic, or unprincipled.
But to be fair, black and white thinking can masquerade as principled discourse. I sometimes find the sweet spot of nuanced thinking difficult to find.
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