View Full Version : Phoenix In The News.....
gimmethesimplelife
8-10-21, 12:42pm
I'm sure some of you have by now heard about the DOJ investigation of the Phoenix PD announced last Thursday. In the interest of avoiding controversy, I will refrain from posting what I think of the Phoenix PD, something of which I have previously made clear numerous times. My intent posting this is to cover a different angle - after all these years I am utterly stunned that this finally happened.
Moving beyond the Phoenix PD - I wonder which PD's, if any, are next? I also wonder what the DOJ's qualifying criteria for an investigation of a PD are. Rob
If I recall correctly, the DOJ investigated the Seattle PD, and found many areas of concern. Nothing much has changed, as far as I can tell. Both the federal DOJ and the Oregon Justice Department have investigated the Portland PD with the same result.
iris lilies
8-10-21, 2:17pm
There are there are all kinds of DOJ investigations. This one took place after the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson. Pages 27 and 28 clearly lay out what happened, specified even by a felon who didn’t want to be a “snitch. “
But no matter, these factual Accounts telling that Mike Brown was wrestling with the officer were not enough to counter “hands up don’t shoot” narrative that is now popular.
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/doj_report_on_shooting_of_michael_brown_1.pdf
I think the criteria are high profile case(s) that grab media and public attention.
In the interest of avoiding controversy.....You've been saying that a lot lately as you create threads that you think may become controversial. Why not be honest and just tell us what you think?
gimmethesimplelife
8-10-21, 5:21pm
You've been saying that a lot lately as you create threads that you think may become controversial. Why not be honest and just tell us what you think?I'm done bashing, Alan. I bring this up not to be controversial but because it's huge news. Perhaps there will be changes. Likely high level firings and resignations. I personally never thought I'd live to see such an investigation....and BOOM, last Thursday this investigation is announced. The Phoenix City Council is claiming it had no idea this was coming until 2 hours before it was announced to the public. A big reason I post this too is I wonder what specifically triggered it? Rob
I'm done bashing, Alan. I bring this up not to be controversial but because it's huge news. Perhaps there will be changes. Likely high level firings and resignations. I personally never thought I'd live to see such an investigation....and BOOM, last Thursday this investigation is announced. The Phoenix City Council is claiming it had no idea this was coming until 2 hours before it was announced to the public. A big reason I post this too is I wonder what specifically triggered it? RobFrom what I've read it is primarily a response to several lawsuits filed recently by protestors and rioters who believe they were unfairly targeted by police. What makes you think there will be high level resignations and firings?
gimmethesimplelife
8-11-21, 9:17am
From what I've read it is primarily a response to several lawsuits filed recently by protestors and rioters who believe they were unfairly targeted by police. What makes you think there will be high level resignations and firings?One reason I am so surprised regarding this DOJ investigation - Minneapolis has the face of the late George Floyd to serve as instant recognition to it's policing issues. Louisville to some degree has the late Breonna Taylor's image to serve as instant recognition to it's policing issues. In Phoenix there have been numerous LEO issues but no face to serve as instant recognition. About the firings and resignations - I am thinking Phoenix Police Chief Jeri Williams will soon be tendering her resignation. There is video and audio of her basically not taking the Challenge Coin Scandal seriously at all - a scandal in which Phoenix PD officers actually made commemerative (sp?) coins commemmerating (sp?) instances of Phoenix PD police brutality. When this goes more public and video is released proving her non-response - I don't believe she will be sticking around very long. As to other resignations - there have been so many scandals and illegal actions brought to light - if a true investigation is really done, a number of PD officers will likely resign before being forced out as names and actions are brought forth into the harsh light of public scrutiny AND with no legal justification for these actions.
Should be an interesting time in Phoenix. I don't believe the DOJ investigation will create a utopia here in the Urban South Central Deserts of Arizona - but I do believe there will be some long overdue change and some level of reform - and more and more and more retaliatory lawsuits against the Phoenix PD. A long overdue and well earned PR nightmare has just arrived at the Phoenix PD - it will be very entertaining to watch the upcoming twisting and squirming of the Phoenix PD as facts are brought to light.
Without bashing the Phoenix PD, all I will say is that it's hard to smother my grin these days though in the workplace I do. It's true that I can not know how this investigation will turn out - true that - but Alan, even with your being pro-police, can you not grasp that where there is this level of smoke, there tends to be legit fire? We'll see with time I guess.
And to lead into one of the reasons I posted this in the first place - I still wonder what exactly triggers such an investigation? I have been writing letters off and on for years along with occassional calls and emails with no real hope of any DOJ action - and out of nowhere an investigation is announced and as I said above, Phoenix and it's LEO issues lack the instantly recognizable faces that Minneapolis and Louisville have. Rob
iris lilies
8-11-21, 10:18am
perhaps the “face” is Bruce Franks. Haha.
My former Missouri House of Representatives from urban St. Louis, Bruce Franks, is a vagabond inciter of riots. Having gained notoriety in the Ferguson riots, he has since taken up professional rioting and travels to hotspots to make them hotter.
anyway—he was arrested in Phoenix last year but charges were dropped against him. Not only a professional rioter, he is a professional victim as well and is suing the Phoenix PD for a couple $ million.
gimmethesimplelife
8-11-21, 10:26am
perhaps the “face” is Bruce Franks. Haha.
My former Missouri House of Representatives from urban St. Louis, Bruce Franks, is a vagabond inciter of riots. Having gained notoriety in the Ferguson riots, he has since taken up professional rioting and travels to hotspots to make them hotter.
anyway—he was arrested in Phoenix last year but charges were dropped against him. Not only a professional rioter, he is a professional victim as well and is suing the Phoenix PD for a couple $ million.Morning, IL. You have brought up this Bruce Franks once before in a thread regarding our worlds colliding some time ago before I dropped the zip code posts and the SJW posts, of which I do not consider this one to be. This really IS news, at least locally, that may (or may not, to be fair) have significant long term impact upon the fifth largest US city (Phoenix is #5 now and the metro area is now more populous than Metro Boston I'm told).
I've asked around before after your original post in regards to this man and it seems that other activists have not heard of him - but I also did not speak to every activist in the city, granted here and now. Rob
iris lilies
8-11-21, 11:22am
Well, I wish everyone prosperity in their victim industry. The riots and subsequent fallout destroys buildings, neighborhoods, community welfare, and employment. What most people do not see is that which rises out of it all: hundreds of little Al Sharptons grifting the locale and generating little windfalls for themselves.
Your local protesters may not know Bruce because he is too high level? Who knows, but Mr. Google reveals many reports about Mr. Franks’ shenanigans in Phoenix.
gimmethesimplelife
8-11-21, 12:13pm
Well, I wish everyone prosperity in their victim industry. The riots and subsequent fallout destroys buildings, neighborhoods, community welfare, and employment. What most people do not see is that which rises out of it all: hundreds of little Al Sharptons grifting the locale, generating income.
Your local protesters may not know Bruce because he is too high level? Who knows, but Mr. Google reveals many reports about Franks’ shenanigans in Phoenix.I'll google right now, IL. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-11-21, 12:25pm
IL, What A Small World. I just googled your Mr Franks and indeed he did turn up - in a pivotal role of sorts (!!!) as far as the DOJ investigation and what they claim to be investigating. And I fully side with Mr Franks as I know the local backstory. Mr. Franks was with a group of protesters in downtown Phoenix last Summer who video proves were not crossing the line - the Phoenix PD did, once again, thankfully all on video. Where the DOJ comes in here? The Phoenix Police claimed this group of protesters was a gang (a fictional gang in their head) and arrested them based on this. All charges were dropped, a Maricopa County Prosecutor resigned in disgrace as the facts came to light, and multiple multi million dollar lawsuits are pending as to these illegal arrests.
You believe in the rule of law and the Constitution, right IL? Mr Franks and his crew are entirely right as they are operating within this framework and the Phoenix PD chose not to - once again, all on video thankfully. I hope all protesters never have to work again if such is their wish - they have earned such via being stripped of their rights.
At any rate - this is one of the issues the DOJ claims to be investigating - retaliation against peaceful protesters and I can say that yes, the Phoenix PD is indeed guilty of this. I came close to experiencing it once myself and managed to avoid Phoenix PD created chaos by three minutes by leaving the scene due to a cell phone call regarding in laws. This was two years ago before George Floyd became a household name and before covid - my experience here had nothing to do with the Floyd protests, not that such matters. Just being clear here is all.
I don't wish to spark controversy but I will state this one thing and it is nothing against you, IL, seriously. This incident that Mr. Franks refers to is a well known night of shame and coming legal consequences for the Phoenix PD - and as a local, I know some of - likely nowhere near all - the juicy facts. For those who support the police, this is not an evening you wish to reference/speak about. To do so will not help your case. Just a friendly heads up - and I'm sorry that earlier I did not do the simple googling to connect these dots. That one is entirely on me, I will give you that.
As to your original post regarding Mr Franks some time ago - yes, I can see now why you brought it up. Our worlds indeed did collide that evening, IL, you are quite right on this point. Small world, no? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-11-21, 12:30pm
Well, I wish everyone prosperity in their victim industry. The riots and subsequent fallout destroys buildings, neighborhoods, community welfare, and employment. What most people do not see is that which rises out of it all: hundreds of little Al Sharptons grifting the locale, generating income.
Your local protesters may not know Bruce because he is too high level? Who knows, but Mr. Google reveals many reports about Franks’ shenanigans in Phoenix.Would this include the Phoenix PD in their frequent but mostly unsuccessful efforts to play the role of victim after they cross moral, ethical, and legal lines, often on video, just curious? Rob
Would this include the Phoenix PD in their frequent but mostly unsuccessful efforts to play the role of victim after they cross moral, ethical, and legal lines, often on video, just curious? Rob
I don't think you've given us enough information to make an informed decision. Are the protests in question planned or spontaneous? Are they blocking streets or businesses? Are they violent or destructive or are the protestors using speech designed to inflame or invoke fear? Have they been informed that their actions are in violation of local laws or city ordinances and been ordered to disperse?
Do you have a response to any of those questions or in your mind, do they matter?
iris lilies
8-11-21, 4:15pm
IL, What A Small World. I just googled your Mr Franks and indeed he did turn up - in a pivotal role of sorts (!!!) as far as the DOJ investigation and what they claim to be investigating. And I fully side with Mr Franks as I know the local backstory. Mr. Franks was with a group of protesters in downtown Phoenix last Summer who video proves were not crossing the line - the Phoenix PD did, once again, thankfully all on video. Where the DOJ comes in here? The Phoenix Police claimed this group of protesters was a gang (a fictional gang in their head) and arrested them based on this. All charges were dropped, a Maricopa County Prosecutor resigned in disgrace as the facts came to light, and multiple multi million dollar lawsuits are pending as to these illegal arrests.
You believe in the rule of law and the Constitution, right IL? Mr Franks and his crew are entirely right as they are operating within this framework and the Phoenix PD chose not to - once again, all on video thankfully. I hope all protesters never have to work again if such is their wish - they have earned such via being stripped of their rights.
At any rate - this is one of the issues the DOJ claims to be investigating - retaliation against peaceful protesters and I can say that yes, the Phoenix PD is indeed guilty of this. I came close to experiencing it once myself and managed to avoid Phoenix PD created chaos by three minutes by leaving the scene due to a cell phone call regarding in laws. This was two years ago before George Floyd became a household name and before covid - my experience here had nothing to do with the Floyd protests, not that such matters. Just being clear here is all.
I don't wish to spark controversy but I will state this one thing and it is nothing against you, IL, seriously. This incident that Mr. Franks refers to is a well known night of shame and coming legal consequences for the Phoenix PD - and as a local, I know some of - likely nowhere near all - the juicy facts. For those who support the police, this is not an evening you wish to reference/speak about. To do so will not help your case. Just a friendly heads up - and I'm sorry that earlier I did not do the simple googling to connect these dots. That one is entirely on me, I will give you that.
As to your original post regarding Mr Franks some time ago - yes, I can see now why you brought it up. Our worlds indeed did collide that evening, IL, you are quite right on this point. Small world, no? Rob
If Bruce Franks did not cross the line or whatever he was accused of, I think justice has been served by charges being dropped. pretty simple.
No I do not think he deserves to never have to work a day again in his life because he was charged wrongly.I don’t think you really have to worry too much though about Bruce Franks working, that’s really not his MO.
gimmethesimplelife
8-11-21, 6:04pm
If Bruce Franks did not cross the line or whatever he was accused of, I think justice has been served by charges being dropped. pretty simple.
No I do not think he deserves to never have to work a day again in his life because he was charged wrongly.I don’t think you really have to worry too much though about Bruce Franks working, that’s really not his MO.I disagree. Illegal arrests, especially politically retaliatory ones such as these, in my world merit a HUGE settlement. Multiple lawsuits in regards to these illegal arrests are taking place now - as soon as a decision is made on one I will try to remember to come back and post the results.
There are some protesters of the class of which you refer, I will not deny this. I myself am not like this nor are those close to me who I have engaged in activism with. You would have me believe all cops are not bad, am I not correct? Here's the flip of that script. Not all protesters are about a free ride. I'm living proof. 78 hours total last week Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-11-21, 6:09pm
I don't think you've given us enough information to make an informed decision. Are the protests in question planned or spontaneous? Are they blocking streets or businesses? Are they violent or destructive or are the protestors using speech designed to inflame or invoke fear? Have they been informed that their actions are in violation of local laws or city ordinances and been ordered to disperse?
Do you have a response to any of those questions or in your mind, do they matter?The protesters, as per video well beyond their mere words, were engaged in completely legal constitutionally protected peaceful protest I am very grateful video - and more than one - exists of this evening. Part of the DOJ investigation of the Phoenix PD supposedly covers whether the Phoenix PD retaliates against lawful protesters and journalists. Not only do they but they have a long history of such. Let's hope the DOJ can make some changes the appropriate resignations take place soon At the moment it's not looking very good for the Phoenix PD but time will tell and I understand these investigations do drag on and on and on. We'll see. Rob
The protesters, as per video well beyond their mere words, were engaged in completely legal constitutionally protected peaceful protest I am very grateful video - and more than one - exists of this evening. Part of the DOJ investigation of the Phoenix PD supposedly covers whether the Phoenix PD retaliates against lawful protesters and journalists. Not only do they but they have a long history of such. Let's hope the DOJ can make some changes the appropriate resignations take place soon At the moment it's not looking very good for the Phoenix PD but time will tell and I understand these investigations do drag on and on and on. We'll see. RobIt sounds like your protesters are model citizens, but you didn't answer the questions.
Why do you think the police did whatever they did if there was no violence, threats, property damage or illegal assembly?
gimmethesimplelife
8-11-21, 8:06pm
It sounds like your protesters are model citizens, but you didn't answer the questions.
Why do you think the police did whatever they did if there was no violence, threats, property damage or illegal assembly?To answer your questions, Alan, the protesters were not doing anything that the police could legitimately get them for. It was purely political retaliation, as has happened all across the nation by numerous police departments - various officers nationwide unable to handle that perhaps the gig was up and changes were coming whether they like it or not. Too many police officers resort to violence and/or retaliation when confronted with such. At least the DOJ is likely to address this much as the video evidence is very damning against the Phoenix PD on this one - perhaps a reason the DOJ is here to begin with?
At any rate, this time the Phoenix PD really really really screwed up. Beyond any wish to stand up for them you may have - I'd like to direct this post towards another angle. Namely - is it not bizarre that IL would be familiar with one of the chief protesters that infamous downtown Phoenix night a year ago August - the Mr. Frank she refers to apparently did get the most coverage regarding illegal, unconstitutional behavior by the Phoenix PD. Once again, what are the chances IL on this board would know of him? Small world. I just find this amazing now that I have finally connected the dots - slow on my part, yes. Rob
To answer your questions, Alan, the protesters were not doing anything that the police could legitimately get them for. It was purely political retaliation....I think perhaps what you meant to say is that the protesters were not prosecuted due to the recent trend of local prosecutors dropping charges due to purely political retaliation. But since you haven't provided any facts to back up your claims that remains pure speculation on my part.
I've noticed that the Defund/Eliminate the police movement has begun to lose steam now that Democrats control the White House and Congress and the cities most affected by the movement have seen large increases in violence and other crime. For the sake of you and your neighbors I hope this sort of foolishness bottoms out before the effects reach your doors. Good Luck!
iris lilies
8-11-21, 9:17pm
To answer your questions, Alan, the protesters were not doing anything that the police could legitimately get them for. It was purely political retaliation, as has happened all across the nation by numerous police departments - various officers nationwide unable to handle that perhaps the gig was up and changes were coming whether they like it or not. Too many police officers resort to violence and/or retaliation when confronted with such. At least the DOJ is likely to address this much as the video evidence is very damning against the Phoenix PD on this one - perhaps a reason the DOJ is here to begin with?
At any rate, this time the Phoenix PD really really really screwed up. Beyond any wish to stand up for them you may have - I'd like to direct this post towards another angle. Namely - is it not bizarre that IL would be familiar with one of the chief protesters that infamous downtown Phoenix night a year ago August - the Mr. Frank she refers to apparently did get the most coverage regarding illegal, unconstitutional behavior by the Phoenix PD. Once again, what are the chances IL on this board would know of him? Small world. I just find this amazing now that I have finally connected the dots - slow on my part, yes. Rob
oh dude not only do I know him, he’s around my immediate area. DH worked at a polling place where Bruce Franks came in to stage a protest about…I can’t remember, there are so many, but he had his beloved cameras following him.
I was forced to vote for this guy for legislature when he ran up against the black democratic political machine that stuffed the ballot box in an illegal election against him. The court ordered a legal election and I had to hold my nose and vote for him to boot the illegally operating candidate out.
oh dude not only do I know him, he’s around my immediate area. DH worked at a polling place where Bruce Franks came in to stage a protest about…I can’t remember, there are so many, but he had his beloved cameras following him.
I was forced to vote for this guy for legislature when he ran up against the black democratic political machine that stuffed the ballot box in an illegal election against him. The court ordered a legal election and I had to hold my nose and vote for him to boot the illegally operating candidate out.
How was the ballot box stuffed?
iris lilies
8-12-21, 9:02am
How was the ballot box stuffed?
His opponent played games with absentee ballots.
Local elections are determined by a few votes so they can be manipulated with unsophisticated fradulent schemes.
His opponent played games with absentee ballots.
Just like Georgia and Arizona?
iris lilies
8-12-21, 10:45pm
Just like Georgia and Arizona?
Oh! I thought you were asking a sincere question rather than trying mightily to get a set up for an un-clever analogy.
Guess I will be more careful in answering your “questions” in the future.
Just like in Arizona and Georgia the proof is in the pudding. Everyone knows there was fraud is a bs answer.
iris lilies
8-13-21, 12:13am
Just like in Arizona and Georgia the proof is in the pudding. Everyone knows there was fraud is a bs answer.
The “proof in the pudding” was 146 fraudulent absentee ballots in an election that was determined by 90 votes. I have no idea why you are ragging on about this .st Louis election since I doubt you care about it.
The “proof in the pudding” was 146 fraudulent absentee ballots in an election that was determined by 90 votes. I have no idea why you are ragging on about this .st Louis election since I doubt you care about it.
Did the election results get changed once the fraudulent ballots were confirmed? What did the law have to say about it?
And I care about this election like I care about all of them. I don’t want to live in some crap banana republic country where ‘winning’ is more important than honest elections. And thanks to the loser ****tard that currently runs the Republican Party republicans are likely to forever more wave the ‘ELECTION FRAUD’ victim card every time they lose a damn election from now until long after I’m dead regardless of reality. And I’ll be here to point them out as the sad sack sore losers they are every time. Get used to it.
Did the election results get changed once the fraudulent ballots were confirmed? What did the law have to say about it?
And I care about this election like I care about all of them. I don’t want to live in some crap banana republic country where ‘winning’ is more important than honest elections. And thanks to the loser ****tard that currently runs the Republican Party republicans are likely to forever more wave the ‘ELECTION FRAUD’ victim card every time they lose a damn election from now until long after I’m dead regardless of reality. And I’ll be here to point them out as the sad sack sore losers they are every time. Get used to it.
The incident IL refers to was a primary election involving two Democrats vying for a state representative seat. The courts ruled that there was clear evidence of potential fraud and a do-over election was mandated, which resulted in a different winner.
The local election officials admitted they violated the absentee ballot rules in the first election and the original winner's family members were known to hand deliver stacks of absentee ballots to the election office in prior elections. That's why it's important to have clear, concise and inviolable election rules in place on every election, be they local or national.
It appears that failure to follow the rules or having rules that are easily abused affects elections differently as a matter of scale. More so in local elections and less so in national ones but if we truly care about ALL elections, we should probably applaud those state legislatures attempting to tighten their processes and procedures up rather than bash them as we so often see here. That actually makes them less banana republic-esque, wouldn't you agree?
iris lilies
8-13-21, 8:04am
Jp, it’s ok. Calm down. If you accept the fraudulent results of this St. Louis election you are under no obligation by me or Alan to consider the Trump election a fraud. Two different elections.
Your preferred narrative of “there are no fraudulent elections” is fantasy, and a clear eyed view of elections is better to stave off banana republic status than dwelling in fantasy-land.
And, you have missed the point in this sad narrative that I had to vote for this idiotic fellow Bruce Franks in his second election so as to oust the rotten Democratic machine. Ugh. I still feel dirty.
Chicago has such a history of election fraud that a uniformed CPD officer is present at each polling place.
Let that sink in.
If the do over resulted in the other Democrat winning it’s not clear to me why you then had to vote for the Republican.
Chicago has such a history of election fraud that a uniformed CPD officer is present at each polling place.
Let that sink in.
Uniformed PD have been present at every polling place I have been to in my state, and none of them have a history of voting fraud. Among other things they make sure canvassers stay the required distance back from the polls, they ensure traffic moves smoothly, etc.
iris lilies
8-14-21, 11:23am
If the do over resulted in the other Democrat winning it’s not clear to me why you then had to vote for the Republican.
Where do you get “Republicans” in this narrative?
1. Bruce Franks, Democrat, ran in a primary election against Penny Hubbard, Democrat. Because Hubbard stuffed the ballot boxes, she won this primary election.
2. The Court ordered a do-over primary election for these two. Only these two.
3. In this do-over election, I voted for the idiotic Franks in order to oust one of St. louis’s corrupt Democrat machines known as the Hubbard family.
Later in the general election when Green party,Libertarian party, and yes republican party ran, I wouldn’t have voted for Franks. I don’t remember who I voted for or if I voted in that particular position or not. I always vote but I don’t necessarily vote every issue on the ballot.
But so that you completely understand, the winner of the Democratic primary is always the office winner in St. Louis. Always, no exceptions. We do attempt general elections with other parties represented on the ballot, sham thou thy are.
our choices in this city are sadly limited.
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