View Full Version : Hundreds of students walk out to protest removal of LGBTQ+ safe space at school
GeorgeParker
9-24-21, 1:56pm
000
Shouldn't every space be a safe space? Why limit safety to certain locations?
In the perfect world every space would be safe for LGBTQ people. In the reality world that is most definitely not the case.
How would the administration know what they discuss unless they're bugging the classrooms?
How would the administration know what they discuss unless they're bugging the classrooms?
Because there's always an Eddie Haskell poised to rat out teacher.
rosarugosa
9-24-21, 4:08pm
Maybe Texas is going to get rid of all the homophobes while they're eliminating all the rapists.
Maybe Texas is going to get rid of all the homophobes while they're eliminating all the rapists.
I was so relieved to hear Greg Abbott say that! (Seriously though, that was one of the most clueless pronouncements I've heard lately--right up there with "If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," from the equally clueless Todd Akin.
ToomuchStuff
9-24-21, 10:34pm
Put up the stickers in the sex ed class and in the counselors offices.
How does a safe space work in practice? Are there enforcers monitoring conversations, or are occupants required to denounce offenders? How do you prevent people from feeling unsafe, when feelings can be so varied and extreme?
happystuff
9-26-21, 2:29pm
How does a safe space work in practice?
While probably different than a safe space in a school, we used to have them in the corporation I worked for back in the 80's and 90's. We had magnets and stickers to put at our cubical entrances to designate our cubical was a "safe space". It meant that ANY individual was welcome into the cubical if they felt they needed place to go and/or to be with someone when they couldn't find any other place where they felt safe - for whatever reason. I will add that my explanation is based on me as someone who offered a "safe space", not as someone who ever utilized one.
ApatheticNoMore
9-26-21, 3:04pm
The odd thing is you may be accepting of all sexualities, gender identities, whatever. But you may not feel remotely like you want to (or are qualified to for that matter) do counseling on anyone's issues. There are probably some teachers like that.
happystuff
9-26-21, 4:24pm
As explained to me, the point was not to have a place to go for "counseling", rather it simply signified a "space" where one could go and just "be" - to simply sit, breath, whatever - with no judgement, expectations, etc. Having a sticker on my cubical didn't say "I'm qualified to counsel you.", it simply said "You are welcome here." - nothing more, nothing less.
rosarugosa
9-26-21, 6:30pm
The OP wasn't about your situation or any other unrelated situation. It was only about the specific situation that caused a massive student protest at one specific Texas high school and whether or not the school officials' actions were reasonable. https://www.wfaa.com/video/news/local/students-walk-out-at-macarthur-hs-after-teachers-allegedly-forced-to-take-down-safe-space-stickers-for-lgbtqia-students/287-d7ec05dc-cd9d-470a-819e-ee3b63cdd34a Everything I have said about "safe people to talk to" or mentoring or counseling only applies to that situation or ones similar to it, not the general concept of having "safe spaces".
George: Surely you know by now that we digress in our conversations big time. It's almost like if we stay on topic without any meandering, would it really even be the SLF? ;)
One of our neighbors is a gay male who is being tormented by another neighbor and his family members. The gay neighbor officially "came out" to us today. We've had many conversations on various topics, and I assume he could tell that we are friendly, tolerant people, but I later reflected on the fact that it still took at least some degree of courage to tell us that he was gay. He really couldn't be 100% sure that we would be supportive and accepting, which of course we were. So that is something akin to white privilege that I've never had to worry about. I can only imagine how much harder it is for younger people who are still finding themselves. I think it's a shame that the "safe place" stickers were removed. I'm also horrified that my poor neighbor has to live with this junior high behavior from adults in his immediate neighborhood.
happystuff
9-26-21, 6:48pm
The OP wasn't about your situation or any other unrelated situation. It was only about the specific situation that caused a massive student protest at one specific Texas high school and whether or not the school officials' actions were reasonable. https://www.wfaa.com/video/news/local/students-walk-out-at-macarthur-hs-after-teachers-allegedly-forced-to-take-down-safe-space-stickers-for-lgbtqia-students/287-d7ec05dc-cd9d-470a-819e-ee3b63cdd34a Everything I have said about "safe people to talk to" or mentoring or counseling only applies to that situation or ones similar to it, not the general concept of having "safe spaces".
Ahhh.... like X and Y chromosomes and left-handedness in your family in an OP topic titled "Is Cheerleading Too Dangerous?" ? Got it. LOL.
happystuff
9-26-21, 7:27pm
In the post you're refering to I was replying to a post that speculated about whether a certain SLF member's offspring would have been athletic. Thus genetics was on topic for the post I was replying to. That reply also demonstrates that I have no objection to threads wandering and twisting all over the place as they evolve. But your reply to me that 'the point was not to have a place to go for "counseling", rather it simply signified a "space" where one could go and just "be"' obviously misinterpreted or misrepresented what I had said about the stickers indicating a safe-person to talk to, not a safe physical space. So if you weren't trying to contradict what I had said about mentoring or counseling, you should have made that clear by quoting or refering to whatever it was that you were really replying to.
LOL. I was NOT contradicting, misinterpreting OR misrepresenting you. I was explaining MY experience with "safe space" stickers. I think you are the one misinterpreting my post(s).
Read those posts, and as many other posts in this thread as you want to, and then come back and tell me it doesn't sound like happystuff is arguing with me about what the stickers were intended to mean.
Either she didn't understand that the things I said about having "a safe person to talk to" were specific to the student protest, or she was deliberately wanting to start an argument by claiming what I said was wrong because it didn't apply to her totally different situation.
Well, since you asked, I think she was explaining how safe spaces she was familiar with worked and you again took offense that someone would (in your mind) question your absolute mastery of the subject matter. I think a chill pill may be in order. ;)
happystuff
9-26-21, 7:49pm
Sorry to disappoint you, but the bulk of my posts were to LDAHL - not you, beginning with his question "How does a safe space work in practice."
And since you feel I am *deliberately" trying to argue with you, I can only assure you that I am not and won't upset you further by continuing this exchange. Have a good evening.
ToomuchStuff
9-26-21, 9:19pm
Put up the stickers in the sex ed class and in the counselors offices.
The stickers are supposed to indicate teachers who are willing to have non-judgemental conversations with students about LGBTQ+ topics. Limiting them to the sex ed class and the counselors offices would totally defeat the purpose of letting the students seek information and guidance from an adult they know and trust.
The safe spaces under discussion aren't physical spaces, they're people you can safely talk to about a sensitive subject without them being offended and without them being judgemental about you wanting to discuss that topic. If a person is self-declared as safe, but their conduct doesn't match that designation, that fact would quickly spread among people seeking a safe conversation, and the untrustworthy person would quickly be shunned. No other form of enforcement is needed.
So they are not a physical location, but a person? Then why would it matter if they are in a counselors room or the sex ed room? Those are locations. One just has to put the stickers in those rooms, close to the names of those teachers. In this case they just post the stickers with a copy of the reports, listing those teachers,
Kids are smarter then you are giving credit for.;)
GeorgeParker, you forgot to include "Because I can" on the 6th of your 10 deleted posts in this thread. Would you like me to do it for you?
GeorgeParker
9-27-21, 1:27am
So they are not a physical location, but a person? Then why would it matter if they are in a counselors room or the sex ed room? Those are locations. One just has to put the stickers in those rooms, close to the names of those teachers.That actually makes sense, and if you had said it that way I would have understood what you meant instead of misunderstanding it. But in this case the principal issued a gag order prohibiting the teachers discussing the issue with students, and there's the rub.
In this case they just post the stickers with a copy of the reports, listing those teachers,I have no idea what "reports" you are referring to.
GeorgeParker
9-27-21, 1:38am
...and you again took offense that someone would (in your mind) question your absolute mastery of the subject matter.And that kind of unwarranted sarcasm is exactly the reason I deleted a bunch of my recent posts. My "absolute mastery of the subject" in this case has been limited to defining what the protesting students said they were protesting and what they said the stickers represented because SLF members were saying things like "Shouldn't every space be a safe space? Why limit safety to certain locations?" and "As explained to me, the point was not to have a place to go for counseling, rather it simply signified a space where one could go and just be" which seemed to be missing the point of what the protest was about.
But of course I'm not allow to have an opinion let alone to defend or explain my opinion because if I do I'm being a verbose know it all.
Well, you won't have to worry about that any more because I only came back long enough to reply to ToomuchStuffs helpful explanation of her post that I misunderstood earlier.
rosarugosa
9-27-21, 7:34am
My two cents' worth: I perceived Happy's comment the same way Alan did, a sharing of her own experience with the concept of safe spaces. Then it seemed like George was reprimanding her for being off-topic, which puzzled me because I thought her comment was pretty relevant to the conversation. And even if it wasn't, when has that ever stopped us?
George: You contribute a lot of good stuff to the Forum and I enjoy your participation. You do come on a bit strong sometimes; as you yourself said, you have strong opinions and you aren't afraid to share them, and that's perfectly cool by me. However, I do think you need to be prepared for people to sometimes come on strong back at you.
As a former gay teen who is now a middle aged gay person I knew what a safe space was, as defined by the protesting kids, before reading the article. All I have to say on the topic is that everyone who is quibbling over the definition of safe space or making what they consider to be witty (read-snarky) remarks about them should be glad they they never had a need for one. Such things didn’t exist in the 80’s. I’m glad they do now. The suicide rate for LGBTQ youth is still higher than that of straight kids.
iris lilies
9-27-21, 8:32am
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Well, you won't have to worry about that any more because I only came back long enough to reply to ToomuchStuffs helpful explanation of her post that I misunderstood earlier.
For the record TooMuchStuff is a “he.”
As a former gay teen who is now a middle aged gay person I knew what a safe space was, as defined by the protesting kids, before reading the article. All I have to say on the topic is that everyone who is quibbling over the definition of safe space or making what they consider to be witty (read-snarky) remarks about them should be glad they they never had a need for one. Such things didn’t exist in the 80’s. I’m glad they do now. The suicide rate for LGBTQ youth is still higher than that of straight kids.
I’m thinking that people quibbling need to walk a few miles in the shoes of a queer person.
The approach we take with our transgender kid is to resist the perhaps understandable urge to cloister him safely away from the world at large. Ultimately, there will be no authority you can appeal to for your hurt feelings and you will never live in an asshole-free environment, so you need to learn to live in the world as it is rather than some censored and policed paradise. Fortunately, most people do not give a damn about you one way or the other, so you should be able to carve out a little space for yourself with a little work and a little thought.
Identifying as a victim, even with some justification, only pleases your tormentors and creates self-imposed obstacles to creating the life you want.
And there's nothing wrong with teachers announcing quietly that they are willing to be part of that safe space. Not every trans kid or gay kid has family that's willing to accept them as they are. Being strong when you think you have zero support from anyone is an awfully tough thing to do.
Sometimes, you really are a victim. There's a limit to how far toughing it out will take you.
Sometimes, you really are a victim. There's a limit to how far toughing it out will take you.
That may be true, but confronting the world with a victim’s mindset can only hurt you. I will do whatever I can to spare my kid that.
ToomuchStuff
9-28-21, 9:16pm
That actually makes sense, and if you had said it that way I would have understood what you meant instead of misunderstanding it. But in this case the principal issued a gag order prohibiting the teachers discussing the issue with students, and there's the rub.
I have no idea what "reports" you are referring to.
A copy of the order/reprimand to the teacher, about having the discussion.
Sometimes it isn't about using the front of your face, sometimes you just need someone to use the side of their head. (no discussion, just listen)
While probably different than a safe space in a school, we used to have them in the corporation I worked for back in the 80's and 90's. We had magnets and stickers to put at our cubical entrances to designate our cubical was a "safe space". It meant that ANY individual was welcome into the cubical if they felt they needed place to go and/or to be with someone when they couldn't find any other place where they felt safe - for whatever reason. I will add that my explanation is based on me as someone who offered a "safe space", not as someone who ever utilized one.
There are only two safe spaces I ever knew about. One is a series of convenience stores, that have safe space signs up (irony with robberies, guns in schools, etc), the other is the only one I ever knew about, the space between ones ears.
And there's nothing wrong with teachers announcing quietly that they are willing to be part of that safe space. Not every trans kid or gay kid has family that's willing to accept them as they are. Being strong when you think you have zero support from anyone is an awfully tough thing to do.
While not gay, I understand the zero support. Back in my day, they were more worried about the school being sued, then things like allowing police to get involved, when I was at gunpoint. It was only a few years later, after Columbine, that police were in schools, in a function other then Narc. My support was one person, who didn't believe all the stuff I went through, until graduation night. After that she apologized. My safe space, was my earliest memory, or an apocalyptic world, where I was the only human, and had no one but myself to rely on, and at the same time, had no one to bother me.
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