Our Insufferable Elites

[LDAHL]

Is it just me or our elites less willing to even pretend to be accountable anymore?

You see the mayor of San Francisco flouting her own mask rules because she’s “feeling the spirit”, and unwilling to be micromanaged by “the fun police” (Despite herself being the chief of the fun police).

You see AOC weeping on the House floor over the vote on the Iron Dome funding, but then voting “present” rather than opposing it.

You see the President act as if the problems at the border are someone else’s responsibility.

You see almost any gathering of fashion-mongers or Hollywood hamfatters where the elite wear no masks but require it of the wait staff. And who miss no opportunity to inveigh against the rich while dripping in jewelry.

It’s as if they no longer believe they are bound by rules they preach or even created.

[iris lilies]

Take a news break.

yes, they are all annoying, especially the Hollywood set.

[LDAHL]

Take a news break.

yes, they are all annoying, especially the Hollywood set.

You’re right, of course, but it’s like a car wreck I can’t look away from.

It seems the more self-righteous and condescending they become, the worse the movies get.

[Yppej]

I see my Board of Health passing restriction after restriction on people verbally and saying the City Solicitor, who is not present, will have to write the actual order after the fact.

You can't make some of this stuff up.

[iris lilies]

You’re right, of course, but it’s like a car wreck I can’t look away from.

It seems the more self-righteous and condescending they become, the worse the movies get.

There ARE sensible people in the film industry, but they must stay on the down low. Yes, the irony of contemporary McCarthyism escapes them, they, the crowd who should be advocating free speech above all else.

[bae]

I’ve pretty much given up at this point.

[Alan]

And now there are reports that our "The rich must pay their fair share" President created an 'S' Corporation to funnel his nearly $20M speaking fee haul during his 4 year political hiatus which allowed him to avoid payroll taxes (Medicare/Social Security Programs), denying the poor, the sick and disabled nearly $500,000 of his lawful earnings. I think I'd forgive him if he'd just modify his daily mantra to "The rich, such as myself, should be forced to pay their fair share, because you know I'm not gonna do it voluntarily".

[LDAHL]

There ARE sensible people in the film industry, but they must stay on the down low. Yes, the irony of contemporary McCarthyism escapes them, they, the crowd who should be advocating free speech above all else.

Clint Eastwood can’t live forever.

[Rogar]

Seems like in context, the term elite is focusing on some version of politicization, but that how things go these days. I can picture elite to include those who flaunt vaccinations and climate change.

[iris lilies]

Clint Eastwood can’t live forever.
Oh dude, they toletate him as their token conservative because he will, as you say, not be around forever. There are others! But i wont out them on a public forum.

[LDAHL]

Seems like in context, the term elite is focusing on some version of politicization, but that how things go these days. I can picture elite to include those who flaunt vaccinations and climate change.

As when one takes a private jet to make a speech about the evils of burning fossil fuels?

[Alan]

Being a professional celebrity, lecturer, speechmaker, or whatever is a legitimate business and operating that business as an S corporation is totally legitimate.
Sure it is, that's why I referred to "his lawful earnings", as I understand the claims the rub is that while he claimed a small percentage of the earnings as income which were subject to payroll taxes the S corp allows him to claim the remainder over upcoming years as disbursements which are not subject to payroll taxes. All perfectly legal but the insufferable part is that during the Obama/Biden administration as well as now he's promoting tax policies to prevent others from doing the same thing in the future, while at the same time promoting the same 12.4% payroll tax for all income over $400,000 which he can avoid by simply taking disbursements prior to any change of the law.

[GeorgeParker]

Maybe I didn't say this clear enough or loud enough the first time:


...which allowed him to avoid payroll taxes (Medicare/Social Security Programs), denying the poor, the sick and disabled nearly $500,000 of his lawful earnings. The maximum wage income that Social Security tax can be charged on is $142,800. That means if Biden declared at least $142,800 in wages, he actually paid the maximum amount of Soc Sec tax possible. So where did you get the ridiculous idea that he somehow avoided paying $500,000 of Social Security/Medicare tax by having an S Corporation?

[Rogar]

As when one takes a private jet to make a speech about the evils of burning fossil fuels?

Yes. In contrast to those elites who take private jets and promote human caused climate change as fiction.

[Alan]

Maybe I didn't say this clear enough or loud enough the first time:

The maximum wage income that Social Security tax can be charged on is $142,800. That means if Biden declared at least $142,800 in wages, he actually paid the maximum amount of Soc Sec tax possible. So where did you get the ridiculous idea that he somehow avoided paying $500,000 of Social Security/Medicare tax by having an S Corporation?
Because he purposely created an S Corp for the tax benefits they enjoy and funneled the money through that entity so they could then be disbursed in future years where they will be subject to income taxes (but at lower rates than if they were collected as income at the time of earning them) but will be excluded from payroll taxes on the disbursements. And as I pointed out in the original post, it's perfectly legal and I applaud him for doing so, but it goes against the "fair share" doctrine he's promoting and moralizing about for everyone else, which in my mind makes him one of the "insufferable elites".

[jp1]

Alan makes a valid point. For all the bloviating from lots of people about the importance of work it’s curious that our tax code rewards ‘not work’ income with a lower tax rate.

[GeorgeParker]

You still haven't cited any sources of your information or numbers, so I did some digging. You seem to be referring to a Wall Street Journal article. So I'll refer you to this article https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2019/07/10/joe-bidens-tax-returns-no-reason-democrats-need-to-overpay-their-taxes/?sh=6850d1f462b6 that takes the WSJ to task for mischaracterizing the situation.

The WSJ implied there is something sinister about taking advantage of whatever legitimate tax breaks are available, and that seems to be the same point you keep harping on. The difference is that you keep talking about Biden avoiding Social Security and Medicare taxes. But according to the article cited above, the S corporation paid the Bidens less than $800,000 in salary. And as I have already said, the maximum amount subject to Social Security and Medicare tax is only $142,800, so the salary they received and were taxed on each year was apparently above the max and thus the S corporation didn't reduce their Soc Sec or Medicare tax at all.

Make believe accusations about how much Soc Sec and Medicare tax they would have paid if their total profit was taxed are pure fantasy because the $142,800 maximum limits how much income can be taxed for Soc Sec and Medicare.

I'm not a fancy tax accountant, and I don't even play one on tv, but unless there is something in this situation that makes the $142,800 limit not apply, the Bidens paid the maximum Soc Sec and Medicare tax possible in those years.

[Alan]

The WSJ implied there is something sinister about taking advantage of whatever legitimate tax breaks are available, and that seem to be the same point you keep harping on. I'm not sure where you get the idea I think it's sinister to take advantage of legitimate tax breaks, I think I've mentioned several times it's the insufferableness of the "the rich must pay their fair share" diatribes while taking pains not to do so himself.


The difference is that you keep talking about Biden avoiding Social Security and Medicare taxes. But according to the article cited above, the S corporation paid the Bidens less than $800,000 in salary. And as I have already said, the maximum amount subject to Social Security and Medicare tax is only $142,800, so the salary they received and were taxed on was above the max and thus the S corporation didn't reduce their Soc Sec or Medicare tax at all. Make believe accusation of how much Soc Sec and Medicare tax they would have paid if their total profit was taxed are pure fantasy based on what would happen if that $142,800 maximum didn't exist.
And you're missing the point that by funneling income into the S corp for purposes of limiting income tax liability he's not claiming the entire amount as income now but will be collecting income in the form of disbursements later which gives him double benefit, one being those future disbursements will be subjected to lower tax rates in our progressive tax system, and the second being that those future disbursements are not counted as payroll under current tax law which enables him to avoid the current 12.2% self-employment payroll tax on the income he'll be claiming each year.

Again, I applaud him for playing the tax game to his advantage, as we all should. The insufferable elite part comes into play when he actively plays the system to his advantage while telling us daily that he intends to close those benefits to everyone else and implies that "the rich" are selfishly getting away with something. Of course, that is mostly just an attempt to satisfy the progressive wing of his base who believe that every extra dollar in a rich person's hands is a dollar taken away from the government's re-distribution efforts, which is pretty damn insufferable on its own.

[iris lilies]

…If you don't like the law, change it (fat chance) …

but don't expect anyone running a business to define all of their profits as wages, because the IRS has rules that specify the minimum amount you have to declare as wages, and only a fool would pay SS tax on more than that.

Besides which $142,800 is the maximum wage income that Social Security tax can be charged on. That means if Biden declared at least $142,800 in wages, he actually paid the maximum amount of Soc Sec tax possible. So how do you get the ridiculous idea that he somehow avoided paying $500,000 of Social Security/Medicare tax by having an S Corporation?

I’m not sure what the “fat chance” refers to, the S Corp changing or Alan changing it, but either way it’s been scrutinized for change. Our President is proposing that the S Corp. go away.They were chattering about it on Mr. Money mustache, so I Googled it and this is the first hit I saw. I’m sure there are many others:

https://www.burr.com/blogs/tax-law-insights/2021/07/26/the-death-of-s-corporations/

Perhaps daddy Joe after utilizing it saw that it was far too good a deal for any one else to take advantage of, so he’s cutting it.

[jp1]

So we should expect politicians to not take advantage of current tax law prior to changing it? Personally I’d view more harshly a politician who changes a tax law to be more favorable for themselves. Of course I’d also view more harshly a politician who uses information about a burgeoning pandemic and the likely economic consequences to sell off investments in anticipation of a big downturn. But a number of elite politician people did that last January/February.

[LDAHL]

My understanding was that American (average) corporate tax rates are at or slightly above the average paid by our major competitors. Getting too far over that puts US firms at a competitive disadvantage. Most if not all of the countries with plump welfare states finance them by higher personal income taxes and VATs that affect most of the population.

We like to pretend in this country that we could finance comprehensive entitlement programs simply by making corporations or “the rich” pay “their fair share”. Even the current bloated gallimaufry of proposed new spending could come from Jeff Bezos’ rocket money. But this is untrue. That level of spending could only come from taxes levied on the great unwashed. Until we become honest about that, it will be hard to have an adult discussion on tax and spending policy. We will be reduced to AOC’s gown and Elizabeth Warren’s feud with Amazon.