View Full Version : Dave Chapelle—CANCELLED!
iris lilies
10-13-21, 11:14am
Dave Chapelle who is probably the biggest comic out there, mainstream, Kennedy Center Award winner and etc., and a very wise man decided to blast the woke culture and chose to say among many unacceptable things that trans women aren’t women.
This was all in his recent special The Closer.
Standup comedians are under scrutiny for saying things that make people unhappy and uncomfortable, so what else is new about that? What’s new about it is that now social justice warriors are attempting to close them down. The lesser gods of comedy make money off their social media presence.
Chappelle is bigger than that, so he can take on politically incorrect ideas and discuss them with honesty and humor.He is just a guy, not a beacon of evil. He doesn’t need Twitter and etc. to line his pocket.
Damian Williams said about Chapelle “I feel like he’s freed the slaves. “
The reason why this is in my sphere of interest (while also, unfortunately, being one of the 5 stories of the day that media wants us to consume) is because I listen to Joe Rogan podcasts and Rogan talks a lot about the state of comedy in today’s world. He also goes on tour with Chapelle.
happystuff
10-13-21, 11:21am
And he was cancelled by....? Sorry, didn't see any news stories as of yet on this.
iris lilies
10-13-21, 11:30am
And he was cancelled by....? Sorry, didn't see any news stories as of yet on this.
I just mean cancel culture vultures are swarming all over Dave Chapelle.
I do not know if YouTube, Facebook, and etc. have canceled any clips from his show. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have, but maybe the clicks will convince these large commercial entities otherwise. Conflict is good for business.
Rebutting Dave’s comments is an act of free speech, nothing wrong with that. Too bad I haven’t yet heard any decent rebuttals although I’m sure they’re out there. NPR tried mightily yesterday when they invited a black,/trans/woman/comedian/activist to comment on Chapelle’s performance. But her comments were nonsensical.
happystuff
10-13-21, 11:33am
I just mean cancel culture is swarming all over Dave Chapelle.
I do not know if YouTube, Facebook, and etc. I have canceled any clips from his show. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have, but maybe the clicks will convince these large commercial entities otherwise.
Oh, okay. I get it now.
I think cancel culture is a severe threat to any free and functioning society and sincerely hope it will soon die an ignoble death. I'm glad to see high profile people such as Dave Chapelle and Bill Maher knowingly risk social and professional "cancellation" at a time when businesses and sponsors lack the courage to ignore the vocal minorities who use cancel techniques to make themselves feel better.
Chapelle can easily take his stand because he knows that the majority of people agree with him and will support him even though many of them may lack the courage to say so publicly. We need more public figures like him to pave the way to a freer society and help people realize that the risk of ostracism is a small price to pay for a saner world. Once that happens this foolishness will be over.
Maybe he’s big enough to break the chains of weaponized wokeness and emancipate comedy from the sensitivity police. As a concerned citizen, I try to show my support by never missing a special.
The alternative is a bleak dystopian future of Stephen Colbert, John Oliver and Samantha Bee.
I haven't seen the special that has caused the recent kurfluffle.
I have noticed that some of his previous comedy seems based on mocking LGBTQI+ folks.
This certainly seems to have gotten him notice, may be a clever marketing scheme, who knows? I have seen no actual "cancellation" occurring, only yammering on the usual media channels.
The head of the National Black Justice Coalition issued this statement some days back, which calls for the removal of the special from Netflix:
It is deeply disappointing that Netflix allowed Dave Chappelle’s lazy and hostile transphobia and homophobia to air on its platform.
With 2021 on track to be the deadliest year on record for transgender people in the United States — the majority of whom are Black transgender people — Netflix should know better. Perpetuating transphobia perpetuates violence.
Netflix should immediately pull The Closer from its platform and directly apologize to the transgender community.
Make no mistake: Black LGBTQ+ and same gender people exist – and have always existed. The fight against oppression is not a zero sum game, and the pervasiveness of white supremacy in the United States is not an excuse for homophobia or transphobia.
I think running with "my oppressed group doesn't get as much attention as that other oppressed group, kick them instead, kick them!" may reflect a need to reread some of Crenshaw's work.
Anyways, this is yet another reason we can't have nice things.
JaneV2.0
10-13-21, 12:56pm
A lot of comics depend on obnoxiousness to get noticed; it usually doesn't work with me.
I haven't seen the special that has caused the recent kurfluffle.
..
...
The head of the National Black Justice Coalition issued this statement some days back, which calls for the removal of the special from Netflix:
What's the basis of the request to remove the special? From the parts I've seen I'm not sure where the "perpetuating transphobia" comes into play.
iris lilies
10-13-21, 1:07pm
…I have seen no actual "cancellation" occurring, only yammering on the usual media channels.
this above seems a direct contradition to this below:
The head of the National Black Justice Coalition issued this statement some days back, which calls for the removal of the special from Netflix…
this seems a direct co tradition to this:
Did Netflix cancel the show? Or are people merely yammering about doing so?
iris lilies
10-13-21, 1:10pm
A lot of comics depend on obnoxiousness to get noticed; it usually doesn't work with me.
I like musings about human behavior, and some of the standup comedians make,pithy, wry obervations. His bit about Jussie Smollet was hilarious.
If you don’t think Chapelle is ever funny, ok.
iris lilies
10-13-21, 1:11pm
Did Netflix cancel the show? Or are people merely yammering about doing so?
oh, yammering is not actual cancel. Got it.
stay tuned?
ApatheticNoMore
10-13-21, 1:20pm
I take it as a given I suppose that much comedy is based on some cruelty. Maybe this is cruelty to whoever the accepted target de jour is (Karen's?). Then again I don't watch much comedy either. But if it's cruel at some level, I take this as about equivalent to saying water is wet and the pope is Catholic.
Talking about things on social media isn't equivalent to cancelling anything as far as I am concerned. If people want us to get all upset about cancel culture but can only point to the vaguest nothing in arguing that it even exists, um come on, do better. That's not even an argument. That's what I always wonder, while cancel culture may be a bad thing in theory and all that, does it like actually exist much, or is it just some trumped up threat made up out of whole cloth? Then again even if a show is cancelled, one isn't guaranteed a job, right?
iris lilies
10-13-21, 1:25pm
Chapelle runs “through the culture war’s greatest hits, he dares critics to take unequal offense, and prove his point about a hierarchy of suffering.”
I like the summary from a really good review in the Atlantic.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/dave-chappelle-the-closer/620364/
That author also says, if you don’t want to read the whole thing:
“…Chapelle has always been clear about the political argument he is making with this material: In a few short years, gay- and trans-rights activism has achieved the kind of cultural veto that Black Americans have failed to win through decades of struggle. In Chappelle’s telling, no other movement has such power. The rapper DaBaby, censured for remarks about AIDS, was once involved in the fatal shooting (https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article221426465.html) of a Black man at a Walmart. (He was not charged in the death but was convicted of carrying a concealed weapon.) “Nothing bad happened to his career,” Chappelle says. “Do you see where I’m going with this?” In the United States, he says, you can shoot and kill a Black person, “but you better not hurt a gay person’s feelings.” And no other movement, Chappelle maintains, has been granted such immunity to criticism. Bashing feminists for their privilege is so common that I’m surprised Chappelle’s jokes about “white bitches get[ting] tear-gassed” during the Women’s March didn’t land (https://bookshop.org/books/against-white-feminism-notes-on-disruption/9781324006619) him (https://bookshop.org/books/white-feminism-from-the-suffragettes-to-influencers-and-who-they-leave-behind-9781797119311/9781982134419) a (https://bookshop.org/books/the-trouble-with-white-women-a-counterhistory-of-feminism/9781645036890) book (https://bookshop.org/books/hood-feminism-notes-from-the-women-that-a-movement-forgot/9780525560548) deal (https://bookshop.org/books/white-tears-brown-scars-how-white-feminism-betrays-women-of-color/9781948226745). The implicit hierarchy of suffering …”
I really liked this Atlantic review that is nuanced and explains Chapelle’s comedy also as nuanced, neither right or wrong, neither black or white, neither admirable nor worthy of distain.
oh, yammering is not actual cancel. Got it.
stay tuned?
Words have meaning. Does "cancel" now mean "whine, complain, ask for redress"?
Did Netflix cancel the show? Did they make an announcement? Did they take any other actions?
"Cancel culture" to me has become a "thought terminating cliche", not conducive to exploring actual issues.
Chapelle runs “through the culture war’s greatest hits, he dares critics to take unequal offense, and prove his point about a hierarchy of suffering.”
I like the summary from a really good review in the Atlantic.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/dave-chappelle-the-closer/620364/
That author also says, if you don’t want to read the whole thing:
“…Chapelle has always been clear about the political argument he is making with this material: In a few short years, gay- and trans-rights activism has achieved the kind of cultural veto that Black Americans have failed to win through decades of struggle. In Chappelle’s telling, no other movement has such power. The rapper DaBaby, censured for remarks about AIDS, was once involved in the fatal shooting (https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article221426465.html) of a Black man at a Walmart. (He was not charged in the death but was convicted of carrying a concealed weapon.) “Nothing bad happened to his career,” Chappelle says. “Do you see where I’m going with this?” In the United States, he says, you can shoot and kill a Black person, “but you better not hurt a gay person’s feelings.” And no other movement, Chappelle maintains, has been granted such immunity to criticism. Bashing feminists for their privilege is so common that I’m surprised Chappelle’s jokes about “white bitches get[ting] tear-gassed” during the Women’s March didn’t land (https://bookshop.org/books/against-white-feminism-notes-on-disruption/9781324006619) him (https://bookshop.org/books/white-feminism-from-the-suffragettes-to-influencers-and-who-they-leave-behind-9781797119311/9781982134419) a (https://bookshop.org/books/the-trouble-with-white-women-a-counterhistory-of-feminism/9781645036890) book (https://bookshop.org/books/hood-feminism-notes-from-the-women-that-a-movement-forgot/9780525560548) deal (https://bookshop.org/books/white-tears-brown-scars-how-white-feminism-betrays-women-of-color/9781948226745). The implicit hierarchy of suffering …”
I really liked this Atlantic review that is nuanced and explains Chapelle’s comedy also as nuanced, neither right or wrong, neither black or white, neither admirable nor worthy of distain.
I like that phrase: “cultural veto”.
iris lilies
10-13-21, 1:41pm
Words have meaning. Does "cancel" now mean "whine, complain, ask for redress"?
Did Netflix cancel the show? Did they make an announcement? Did they take any other actions?
"Cancel culture" to me has become a "thought terminating cliche", not conducive to exploring actual issues.
Yes to your point that overly complaining about wokeness complaining is counterproductive in the long run.
But I listen to Joe Rogan who has, on his show, actual people who have had real commercial enterprises “cancelled” due to wrongspeak.
I heard one of them recently. Meghan Murphy runs a feminist website and had a source of income cut when she was booted from one of the Social media sites for referring to Jessica Yaniv, a pretend transwoman, as “him.”
Murphy also had a lot to say about Canada’s atmosphere of intimidation about free speech. A little chilling, our neighbors’ actions to the North.
ApatheticNoMore
10-13-21, 1:51pm
Well another thing is a lot of them are grifters, grifting on anti-woke as a way to make money so to speak. But everyone anti-woke is a grifter? Well no some people would draw interest to begin with because they actually have something interesting to say, or an interesting way to say it, have interesting discussions, whatever. But there is also ginning up controversy for controversies sake as a grift. Mostly thinking Meghan Murphy falls into that, because honestly if it's people one never ever would have heard about otherwise ... If it's like: "who?" Then it's maybe someone's get rich scheme.
I am trying to remember which of the pharmaceutical ads we are bombarded with had in its fine printing warnings something about not for, or has elevated risks for, people born female, or people born male. The body remembers its birth gender, so in that sense Chapelle is right, you can be a trans woman but that's a social construct. At the level where your body interacts with things like medications you are still male.
ApatheticNoMore
10-13-21, 2:31pm
There is also being socialized as a female, which is being socialized as inferior to males no matter how much it is sublimated (why do you think I always wanted to be a male as a kid? because I'm trans? But I don't identify as trans. Because MEN DID EVERYTHING in all the history books and so on! Sure in theory "women can do anything", I was told that too, but in all the stories and stuff men did everything, the best a woman could aspire to is to be like a man).
The body remembers its birth gender, so in that sense Chapelle is right, you can be a trans woman but that's a social construct. Yes, and as I understand it that's basically what Chapelle is saying in his act.
Murphy also had a lot to say about Canada’s atmosphere of intimidation about free speech. A little chilling, our neighbors’ actions to the North.
“Human Rights Tribunal” does have a sort of Orwellian ring to it, doesn’t it?
But of course here in the US we have an Attorney General who wants to set the FBI on people who get angry at school board meetings as “domestic terrorists”, so maybe we shouldn’t be too critical.
I like musings about human behavior, and some of the standup comedians make,pithy, wry obervations. His bit about Jussie Smollet was hilarious.
If you don’t think Chapelle is ever funny, ok.
He may be; I'll probably never know. :)
I hear a group of Netflix employees are planning a one day walkout on the 20th in protest of the company’s failure to cancel Chapelle.
JaneV2.0
10-14-21, 12:31pm
"Cancel culture" has been around forever: The Dixie Chicks, Colin Kaepernick, Kathy Griffin...Why is it suddenly a thing?
Teacher Terry
10-14-21, 1:09pm
Comedians make fun of people and it a big part of their acts. There’s a comedian with cerebral palsy that makes fun of himself and others with disabilities and he went to second place on America’s got talent. He is hilarious.
happystuff
10-14-21, 1:23pm
Comedians make fun of people and it a big part of their acts. There’s a comedian with cerebral palsy that makes fun of himself and others with disabilities and he went to second place on America’s got talent. He is hilarious.
I do enjoy comedians that do that - make fun of themselves/their personal "group" so to speak, but I think it is different making fun of others - especially if I happen to be one of those "others". And, yes, I like to think I have a good sense of humor, but some of the things said are too over-the-top and downright hurtful... again, in my opinion.
ApatheticNoMore
10-14-21, 1:34pm
I'm not sure the making from of one's personal group would be accepted. Suppose Dave Chappelle made fun of black guys (maybe he does, I don't claim to know). Would it really be considered okay if white people were laughing along and like: "oh yea black guys, that's so true"
There may be a line that is too over the top, but I suspect it's more of an "I know it when I see it" thing.
happystuff
10-14-21, 1:40pm
You very well may be right. Not everyone is going to think the same thing is funny and everyone draws their own line, so to speak.
I do enjoy comedians that do that - make fun of themselves/their personal "group" so to speak, but I think it is different making fun of others - especially if I happen to be one of those "others".
This puts me in mind of the dentist on “Seinfeld” who converted to Judaism so he would have “total joke immunity”.
happystuff
10-14-21, 1:44pm
This puts me in mind of the dentist on “Seinfeld” who converted to Judaism so he would have “total joke immunity”.
And that brings up the question of what came first - culture misappropriation or cancel culture?
And that brings up the question of what came first - culture misappropriation or cancel culture?
Ask Homo habilis, Homo rudolfensis, Homo erectus, Homo antecessor, Homo heidelbergensis, Homo floresiensis, Homo neanderthalensis and Homo naledi.
happystuff
10-14-21, 1:59pm
Ask Homo habilis, Homo rudolfensis, Homo erectus, Homo antecessor, Homo heidelbergensis, Homo floresiensis, Homo neanderthalensis and Homo naledi.
Okay. Now, where to find.....?
:)
And that brings up the question of what came first - culture misappropriation or cancel culture?
Can a European based culture be appropriated?
Can a European based culture be appropriated?
Ever seen St. Patrick's Day in the USA? :-)
Related, this is a fabulous book:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/9127SV8FCvL.jpg
happystuff
10-14-21, 2:02pm
Ever seen St. Patrick's Day in the USA? :-)
This was the first thing to pop into my mind as well, with Octoberfest a close 2nd. LOL
iris lilies
10-14-21, 2:11pm
I hear a group of Netflix employees are planning a one day walkout on the 20th in protest of the company’s failure to cancel Chapelle.
A Netflix group was fired but then rehired at the outcry of their firing.
iris lilies
10-14-21, 2:20pm
Well another thing is a lot of them are grifters, grifting on anti-woke as a way to make money so to speak. But everyone anti-woke is a grifter? Well no some people would draw interest to begin with because they actually have something interesting to say, or an interesting way to say it, have interesting discussions, whatever. But there is also ginning up controversy for controversies sake as a grift. Mostly thinking Meghan Murphy falls into that, because honestly if it's people one never ever would have heard about otherwise ... If it's like: "who?" Then it's maybe someone's get rich scheme.
Yes, getting mileage out of being “cancelled” can happen.
I remember thinking that Mark Steyne got quite a bit of mileage in outrage at his treatment by Canadian thought police. Sometimes bad things happening end up to be good.
But that’s not to say he overdid it. I heard his talk a couple of times and it stuck with me, but his ongoing telling of the tale may well have educated many people to the dangers of thought police.
"Cancel culture" has been around forever: The Dixie Chicks, Colin Kaepernick, Kathy Griffin...Why is it suddenly a thing?
People are even censoring the dead. The ACLU edited some Ruth Bader Ginsburg remarks to eliminate the offensive term “women”. And we are now hearing that Katie Couric edited a RBG interview to make her negative comments about NFL knee-takers more acceptable.
Ask Homo habilis, Homo rudolfensis, Homo erectus, Homo antecessor, Homo heidelbergensis, Homo floresiensis, Homo neanderthalensis and Homo naledi.
Your terminology is offensive. Apart from the h-word, it’s “habilix”, “erectux”, etc.
I'm not going to look up Meghan Murphy: I want to maintain my innocence. :~)
iris lilies
10-14-21, 5:43pm
This was the first thing to pop into my mind as well, with Octoberfest a close 2nd. LOL
Americans clomping around in kilts is pretty appropriated. Actually, Queen Victoria’s .scotland obsession started up kilt love as costume after a couple of centuries.
Yes, getting mileage out of being “cancelled” can happen.
OMG. No kidding. Just look at how much mileage certain groups get freaking about about the ‘cancellation’ of Christmas every year.
ToomuchStuff
10-16-21, 11:02am
It is still on Netflix so not canceled. I tried watching it the other night after reading this (Remember that south park movie that said its goal was to offend everyone?), and fell asleep in under ten minutes. I guess not to offensive to make Adrenalin rise.
iris lilies
10-16-21, 11:12am
It is still on Netflix so not canceled. I tried watching it the other night after reading this (Remember that south park movie that said its goal was to offend everyone?), and fell asleep in under ten minutes. I guess not to offensive to make Adrenalin rise.
I dont have a Netflix subscription at the moment, so have to watch Chapelle’s The Closer in bits and pieces on Youtube.
The story he told about his trans friend, Danielle, was beautiful—good content, excellent timing.
iris lilies
10-16-21, 11:28am
"Cancel culture" has been around forever: The Dixie Chicks, Colin Kaepernick, Kathy Griffin...Why is it suddenly a thing?
Colin Kaspernack was lionized not cancelled.
Kathy Griffin got a bum rap. Her Trump-head trick wasn't especially funny, but still her treatment was overdone. I actually liked her “life on the D-list” show.
Dixie Chicks lost revenue, that’s for sure but that is natural a consequence of fan reactions. They also lost a commercial contract, but that seems ok to me when they weren’t hired to voice their thoughts, they were hired for music performance. It is somewhat different than if their political opinions were hired. They were supposed to be politically neutral.
It is still on Netflix so not canceled. I tried watching it the other night after reading this (Remember that south park movie that said its goal was to offend everyone?), and fell asleep in under ten minutes. I guess not to offensive to make Adrenalin rise.
I thought it was brilliant. But I’ve been a fan since his Comedy Central show. In this era of brittle intersectional squabbling, I think he gets to what I think of as the individual perspective rather than choosing a tribe.
iris lilies
10-16-21, 12:25pm
People are even censoring the dead. The ACLU edited some Ruth Bader Ginsburg remarks to eliminate the offensive term “women”. And we are now hearing that Katie Couric edited a RBG interview to make her negative comments about NFL knee-takers more acceptable.
I saw a video clip of RBG talking about how her opinion of “taking a knee” chAnged. I don’t know if that was edited to make her opinion more palatable, but she really did say that she had a change of heart about it. I don’t think that can be edited. Now I’m gonna have to go back and find that clip.
Kaepernick might disagree with you, Iris. He hasn't played in 4 years.
Kaepernick might disagree with you, Iris. He hasn't played in 4 years.
He should never have opted out of his contract with the 49ers.
iris lilies
10-17-21, 11:50am
Kaepernick might disagree with you, Iris. He hasn't played in 4 years.
I will also add that Kepernick, like the Dixie Chicks, were not hired to give cultural commentary like Dave Chapelle is.
Kaepernick is supposed to play football. Dixie Chicks are supposed to make music and if they infuse some politics into their songs, well, ok. But that isn’t what they did.
Also Kaepernick is worth $20 million today, and Nike is still making money off him. After Nike stock took a dump due to Kaepernick, sales remained strong, so Colin is by reasonable accounts is doing well.
I looked up the net worth of the richest NFL players and they're all well above $20 million:
https://wealthygorilla.com/richest-nfl-players/
On another site I read the average player makes $2.7 million per year gross.
So Colin could potentially do better but could do worse as well had he continued playing.
So Colin could potentially do better but could do worse as well had he continued playing.If I recall correctly he didn't seem to be interested in continuing to play. I remember at one point the NFL went out of their way to set up a try-out session for him where representatives of all NFL teams would be to evaluate his abilities. At the last minute he failed to show at the try-out location although did announce that he would be at another location if anyone was interested. I think his interest in staying in the public eye is greater than his interest in playing football.
iris lilies
10-25-21, 3:12pm
Chapelle’s untitled new video is now getting dropped by film festivals after being in their lineups.
That is “cancelled.”
iris lilies
10-25-21, 3:16pm
Maybe he’s big enough to break the chains of weaponized wokeness and emancipate comedy from the sensitivity police. As a concerned citizen, I try to show my support by never missing a special.
The alternative is a bleak dystopian future of Stephen Colbert, John Oliver and Samantha Bee.
I tried to watch Colbert once but couldn’t get through 5 minutes.
It’s sad to think that he’s taken over what used to be the best late night TV show ever. I truly feel fortunate to have grown up watching David letterman in his glory days. I stayed up way late to watch because I was a night owl anyway. It barely registered with me when he moved from one network to the other because I don’t pay attention to that stuff, it was always the Letterman show regardless of where he was performing it.
I never understood what was so great about J Leno, I found him dull. I get the late night Jimmys mixed up, isn’t there a Jimmy Fallon and a Jimmy… Another Jimmy? I guess Conan O’Brien is supposed to be good but I just think he’s mediocre.
I’ve been watching clips of Letterman in the years towards the end of his show. I like the way he owned up to his affairs with staff although I don’t think any of them were “METOO“events because the women were willing participants.
Chapelle’s untitled new video is now getting dropped by film festivals after being in their lineups.
That is “cancelled.”
What does "cancelled" mean?
iris lilies
10-25-21, 3:23pm
What does "cancelled" mean?
Shunned, commercially dropped, fired from jobs.
Some would probably say “shouted down ” but I am all ok with rebuttal discourse.
frugal-one
10-25-21, 4:46pm
Interesting. I disliked Letterman ... found him dull and boring and always watched Leno and now watch Colbert. As with any show some episodes are better than others.
I enjoyed Leno's standup routine; I didn't click with Letterman in any way; I like Colbert a lot; but I don't watch any of them on a regular basis.
I love John Oliver, but don't have HBO, so only get to see him occasionally, and I enjoy Trevor Noah from time to time.
iris lilies
10-25-21, 8:44pm
I enjoyed Leno's standup routine; I didn't click with Letterman in any way; I like Colbert a lot; but I don't watch any of them on a regular basis.
Seriously—you didn't get Letterman?
oy vey. Perhaps we are not separated at birth after all.
iris lilies
10-25-21, 8:50pm
Interesting. I disliked Letterman ... found him dull and boring
I am not surprised by this.
I love John Oliver, but don't have HBO, so only get to see him occasionally, and I enjoy Trevor Noah from time to time.
Watching John Oliver attempt comedy is like watching your civics teacher trying to be cool by swearing a lot.
Seriously—you didn't get Letterman?
oy vey. Perhaps we are not separated at birth after all.
:D
iris lilies
10-26-21, 6:25am
:D
Now I suppose you are going to tell me that Mick Jagger dancing around stage is not Magic.
What is this world coming to.
catherine
10-26-21, 7:20am
Past my bedtime. I have rarely watched late night shows, although I do try to catch SNL during the election cycles.
That being said, I would say I'm Leno over Letterman. Fallon over Kimmel.
happystuff
10-26-21, 10:01am
I'm like catherine - too late for me. When I did manage to stay up, it was all Johnny. :D
IL, I would be one of those who think that Mick Jagger dancing around the stage is NOT magic. LOL. I was definitely the Beatles over the Stones.
JaneV2.0
10-26-21, 12:33pm
Now I suppose you are going to tell me that Mick Jagger dancing around stage is not Magic.
What is this world coming to.
It's indeed magic! I should have done more drugs! :devil:
catherine
10-26-21, 12:38pm
IL, I would be one of those who think that Mick Jagger dancing around the stage is NOT magic. LOL. I was definitely the Beatles over the Stones.
I'm with you, happystuff. Last night DH asked Alexa to play Sympathy for the Devil, and I just was thinking, "this song sucks!" But my speed was more "Let it Be" and "Imagine". If really wanted up-tempo, give me Ob-La-Di, Ob-La Da.
It's indeed magic! I should have done more drugs! :devil:
Oh, do you mean the esthetics/theatricality of it? I'm more impressed by the sheer fact that he can do it.
ApatheticNoMore
10-26-21, 3:43pm
Oh boy I really don't like listening to the Beatles for long. Ok they have a few good songs, they do, but very quickly they grate on one, one can only take so much of them at a time, in small 1/8th teaspoon doses maybe.
The Stones are not my favorite band in the world, but one can listen to them for longer, if "Rock and Hard Place" comes on in the store, I'm like darn that's a pretty good song, heck if "Under my Thumb" comes on it's a good song, if "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La Da" comes on, and I am The Scream by Edvard Munch.
So definitely the Stones over the Beatles. I don't have any intent to watch Mick Jagger dance on stage so it's not my concern, all I have to decide to do is whether or not to change the radio station.
catherine
10-26-21, 5:53pm
ANM, I can understand not wanting to hear the Stones or the Beatles, being of a different generation--who do you like listening to? My kids are in their late 30s, early 40s, and their favorite bands were Nirvana, Tool, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Radiohead (I actually LOVE Radiohead--Thom York is a genius). But I don't know how old you are--who have you been listening to lately?
rosarugosa
10-26-21, 6:49pm
I really dislike the Beatles so it isn't strictly a generational thing, but I do like a lot of the stuff they did individually once they broke up.
Oh boy I really don't like listening to the Beatles for long. Ok they have a few good songs, they do, but very quickly they grate on one, one can only take so much of them at a time, in small 1/8th teaspoon doses maybe.
The Stones are not my favorite band in the world, but one can listen to them for longer, if "Rock and Hard Place" comes on in the store, I'm like darn that's a pretty good song, heck if "Under my Thumb" comes on it's a good song, if "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La Da" comes on, and I am The Scream by Edvard Munch.
...
I prefer the Stones, but I'm primarily an R & B and Europop fan Personifying The Scream would be me when Barry Manilow came on. I once got out of the bathtub to shut him off. I'm surprised I didn't electrocute myself.
The problem with both the Beatles and the stones is that I’ve heard every song they ever did approximately 142,965 times apiece. But at least they aren’t christmas music I suppose. That particular hell didn’t happen until after they split.
https://youtu.be/94Ye-3C1FC8
happystuff
10-27-21, 9:17am
Not like the Beatles!?!?!?!?! :0!
LOL. Just kidding. And I get it... having so many siblings, you could walk through our house and every room had different music playing: Elton John, Beatles, John Denver, bluegrass, classical, etc. Now that I think back, we had a very eclectic household!
rosarugosa
10-27-21, 6:35pm
The problem with both the Beatles and the stones is that I’ve heard every song they ever did approximately 142,965 times apiece. But at least they aren’t christmas music I suppose. That particular hell didn’t happen until after they split.
https://youtu.be/94Ye-3C1FC8
That's certainly part of it for me with the Stones, as well as some other bands I used to like more than I do now (The Doors and Jimi Hendrix come to mind, and neither lasted long enough to leave behind a very large body of work, which makes it even worse). But the Beatles just never did it for me. The other day, I heard "Help" on my car radio, changed stations, found all commercials, so I turned off the radio and listened to nothing instead.
Now fair is fair, so you all can dump on my beloved Grateful Dead next. Although in their defense, there are 142,965 recorded versions of each of their songs, and they're all slightly different, so I find that I haven't gotten tired of many of them just yet. :laff:
That's certainly part of it for me with the Stones, as well as some other bands I used to like more than I do now (The Doors and Jimi Hendrix come to mind, and neither lasted long enough to leave behind a very large body of work, which makes it even worse). But the Beatles just never did it for me. The other day, I heard "Help" on my car radio, changed stations, found all commercials, so I turned off the radio and listened to nothing instead.
Now fair is fair, so you all can dump on my beloved Grateful Dead next. Although in their defense, there are 142,965 recorded versions of each of their songs, and they're all slightly different, so I find that I haven't gotten tired of many of them just yet. :laff:
To be fair I agree. A friend bought the recently (relatively) remastered records of a couple of beetles albums and I thoroughly enjoyed them. The improvement was enough to make even the same original recordings sound fresh and awesome.
I was driving my kid and a couple of his friends home from school with a Bach Cantata playing. One of the friends said “Your Dad likes old people music”. My kid replied, “No, he likes dead people music.” I tried to argue it was immortal people music, but was shouted down.
ApatheticNoMore
10-31-21, 1:47am
The truth is I never listened strictly to the music of my time even when young (was i ever young, who knows I was so serious). And I never liked grunge. I like more melodic stuff. Dissonance can be extremely pleasurable, but it has to be done right, it takes a lot of skill to pull it off.
And so much of what I listened to as a teenager or something isn't even good and I don't replay it, only what I still like and still holds up really well at least for me, once in a while. But at a certain point in random songs it was a lot of Gen X mix today, R.E.M. still sounded great. And then my bf (who is a few years younger than me as I'm a cradle-robber - 2.5 years ha) wouldn't get out of the car because he wanted to hear a Grateful Dead song. And then we went to the art opening we were headed to. Lately the only thing worthwhile (as non satellite commercial radio is pretty awful) I listen to is the public radio music station, but much of that music is in the style of the 70s or 80s or 90s as well, only stuff one has never heard and some of it new.
iris lilies
11-13-22, 5:35pm
Chapelle did a great monologue on Saturday Night Live. Whoever wrote it got his topics right along with his style. Anyone can see it on YouTube.
He addressed the Ye (Kanye West) controversy lightly, also covering Kayrie Irving’s fauxpas in linking an anti semantic film about Jews. Chapelle manages to say things borderline cringe in a very funny way. Maybe he brought a little bit of insight to the Ye thing.
One of the writers on SNL walked off the job that week because as a non-binary person they cannot countenance Chapelle on the show. Best monologue in a long time though, there’s that, and that writer didn’t write it.
The cancellation of Chapelle continues.
Dave Chapelle is probably the only currently working comedian brave enough to make comedy funny again. I wish him luck.
One of the writers on SNL walked off the job that week because as a non-binary person they cannot countenance Chapelle on the show. Best monologue in a long time though, there’s that, and that writer didn’t write it.
The cancellation of Chapelle continues.
He was on SNL and had a great monologue but one writer out of several refused to write jokes for him and that’s cancellation? Interesting theory. Please elaborate.
iris lilies
11-14-22, 7:38am
He was on SNL and had a great monologue but one writer out of several refused to write jokes for him and that’s cancellation? Interesting theory. Please elaborate.
Haha ok, you win. He wasnt exactly canceled, He was shunned.
But shaming and shunning is ok. I sincerely mean that. It just is—silly.
It would take someone with a much sharper wit than I have to pull this off but perhaps even better than refusing to write jokes for him would be writing jokes for him that make subtle digs at him that he doesn’t even notice and which only become apparent after the fact when a few especially sharp people point them out. I have no idea if such jokes are even possible but the prospect is appealing.
I watched his skit. It was horrendous. I can see why folks are concerned.
iris lilies
11-14-22, 11:48pm
I watched his skit. It was horrendous. I can see why folks are concerned.
It wasn’t horrendous. But sure, some people will be “concerned. “
It wasn’t horrendous. But sure, some people will be “concerned. “
https://www.washingtonian.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2015.03.18.holocaust-955.jpg
It wasn’t horrendous. But sure, some people will be “concerned. “
If I were Jewish I would certainly be ‘concerned’. It seems that it’s just as acceptable these days to baselessly attack “The Jews”, as Chapelle called them, as it is to baselessly attack trans people.
Yes, I watched it and was concerned. Thank you for expressing my concern so eloquently, Bae.
iris lilies
11-15-22, 9:12am
The Louis Farrakhan fueled distrust in the black community of Jews has been going on for a long time. My public library subscribed to, actually paid real taxpayer dollars, for the nonsense of Farrakhan’s The Final Call which was popular in our large north side (African American populated) library branch.
Kyrie Irving received outsized cancellation for his tweet which was, according to reports I read, a simple link to a dumb and amateur film hosted on Amazon.
Ye has received appropriate slap-downs for his nutty utterings that seem to be ongoing. He truly experienced cancellation when his $2 billion Adidas contract was cancelled.
[QUOTE=iris lilies;394043]Dave Chapelle who is probably the biggest comic out there, mainstream, Kennedy Center Award winner and etc., and a very wise man decided to blast the woke culture and chose to say among many unacceptable things that trans women aren’t women.
/QUOTE]
I think what concerns me is two-fold: that he is being presented as "a very wise man" in connection with his anti-Semitism, and that posters are saying, "well I'd be concerned if I were Jewish, but I'm not Jewish, so it's okay."
It's like Trump and January 6. When do we start to see things are connected, and it's not okay to stand by and say nothing when evil is occurring?
iris lilies
11-16-22, 9:20am
[QUOTE=iris lilies;394043]Dave Chapelle who is probably the biggest comic out there, mainstream, Kennedy Center Award winner and etc., and a very wise man decided to blast the woke culture and chose to say among many unacceptable things that trans women aren’t women.
/QUOTE]
I think what concerns me is two-fold: that he is being presented as "a very wise man" in connection with his anti-Semitism, and that posters are saying, "well I'd be concerned if I were Jewish, but I'm not Jewish, so it's okay."
It's like Trump and January 6. When do we start to see things are connected, and it's not okay to stand by and say nothing when evil is occurring?
You and many others here *are* speaking up about your opinion of Chapelle’s monologue. Dave’s comments were racist and riffed on racist comments of Ye. Wise men can be racist, and Dave Chapelle doesn’t care that anyone thinks he is racist. There is wisdom in that.
I have been reading internet comments on this performance. There are many interesting takes on it, including those by Jewish comedians. At the most base level, widespread criticism is “bad words bad Dave cancel Dave” and let’s bludgeon Dave with bae’s photo of the Holocaust.
But I think this kind of performance, ironically funny commentary delivered masterfully, deserves higher level analysis.
Does Chappelle highlight anti semitic thoughts and in that highlighting, is he normalizing that? Does joking about it make it ok? Or does the highlighting reveal important truths that live in our society? And, doesn’t he make fun of those “truths” at the same time?
I don’t think shutting them down like the extreme reaction to Kyrie Irving (sending Irving to the corner to think over the error of his thoughts) is especially good for our society. This drives Kyrie’s thoughts underground where he will not express them out loud ever again, something that Chapelle touched on. There will be no opportunity to discuss with Irving his ideas.
In free speech a golden rule is: shine the light on it. Show the ideas for all to see.
I think .dave Chappelle is one of the greats and he is equal to George Carlin in wit and wisdom. I also think this is the end of an era in comedy. Our future world will be more constrained for the younger generation whose sensibilities are easily challenged.. Perhaps that is “good” (tho it is not my own taste) but I think something important will be lost.
One of the more interesting things to come out of this is the report (?true? I dont know) that Chappelle performed a different monologue for dress rehearsal and pulled out this one for the live performance, unbeknownst to Lorne Michaels.
There will be commentary on this as days go by.
iris lilies
11-16-22, 9:27am
I think what concerns me is two-fold: that he is being presented as "a very wise man" in connection with his anti-Semitism, and that posters are saying, "well I'd be concerned if I were Jewish, but I'm not Jewish, so it's okay."
I guess this is not the time for me to ….ummmm….play my card. My mother was Jewish. It is in bad taste to say this, so I won’t.:~)
It's like Trump and January 6. When do we start to see things are connected, and it's not okay to stand by and say nothing when evil is occurring?
But see, that’s exactly what Ye he thinks he’s doing, connecting the dots, bringing together what he sees happening with his life and the lives of others in Hollywood.
Believe me when I say I have little respect for Ye because I don’t know anything about him other than he was married to a Kardashian and he’s crazy.
And he produced a lot of music. But I do, because of this recent panel of utterings by him, understand that he has major influence in a segment of our population.
"Wise men can be racist, and Dave Chapelle doesn’t care that anyone thinks he is racist. There is wisdom in that."
I guess we disagree on that to the extent that someone can simultaneously be wise and also make light of genocide. And promulgate the hatred that caused the genocide in the first place.
How is that Kanye thing going?
iris lilies
12-2-22, 7:39am
How is that Kanye thing going?
Ye seems to be making the circuit defending his… Whatever it is he’s defending.His racist utterings, I guess.
I’m no defender of Ye and if you read my words carefully you’ll see that. He lost his Adidas contract and that’s perfectly within the rights of Adidas to do that, nor do I think they’re wrong to do that.
I see Ye is no longer allowed to tweet to the Twitter twits. Elon Musk, no fan of censorious wokery, apparently draws the line at incitement to violence.
From the White House, you can look south across the Mall and see the US Holocaust Memorial museum at the other end of the Mall, near the Washington Monument. It's about a 15 minute slow lazy walk, or about 10 mins if you walk across the Mall itself. (I recommend stopping at the food trucks on Constitution Ave, about 1/2 your journey).
I'd hope that any resident or potential resident of the White House would not choose to dine with Kanye and other well-known anti-Semite conspiracy theory people, but that's where we are these days.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=http://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_960w/2010-2019/Wires/Images/2018-10-11/Bloomberg/331565386_0-3.jpg&w=1200
It’s hard to imagine two egos that size fitting in the same room.
iris lilies
12-3-22, 10:31am
Ye, Milo Y, Nick F all traveling in a pack, now wanting to add Trump to their shitshow. DJT’s handlers are too adept for that, They disavowed the Nick Fuentes association immediately.
littlebittybobby
12-4-22, 12:06am
Okay---Why couldn't they all appear on SNL, with The Donald as Host? It might be good for ratings. I still wouldn't watch it, though. Too busy looking at youtube vids of old cars & stuff. Yup.
Ye, Milo Y, Nick F all traveling in a pack, now wanting to add Trump to their shitshow. DJT’s handlers are too adept for that, They disavowed the Nick Fuentes association immediately.
Hahaha. Yes, he disavowed Nick by blaming it on Kanye. That worked out so well for him that he had to suggest that we flush the constitution down the toilet. Maybe his brilliant handlers had the week off?
Trump seems the GOP presidential candidate for 2024. I don't see that he has any effective "handlers" remaining.
I also don't see the mainstream of the GOP doing much more than staring at their own feet in vague embarrassment about the antics of The Annointed One. Shame on them.
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