View Full Version : Alec Baldwin accident on set
catherine
10-22-21, 7:37am
Did anyone read/see about Alec Baldwin accidentally shooting and killing the DP and injuring the director of the new movie he's shooting in Santa Fe? It was supposed to be a prop gun.
I like Alec Baldwin and in fact, I binge-watched 30 Rock yesterday, so he's fresh in my memory. What a tragic accident! The article I read in the Times mentioned similar accidents--most notably that of Brandon Lee. Seems bizarre that that kind of accident could even take place. Aren't there better safety precautions for prop guns??
iris lilies
10-22-21, 7:49am
Oh! The account I read didn’t say that Alec Baldwin was the shooter. The account I read was very neutral about there being a stunt gun that went off unexpectedly.That is tragic for him, I’m so sorry. I like Alec Baldwin’s comedic efforts and I have to say I feel a little sorry for him with the crazy wife, or I should say the crazy Spanish wife. Oh yeah and also having 1 million young kids at his age which is about my age.
What a terrible thing, I hadn't heard but will look at the news. How awful for everybody involved.
This reminded me of the Brandon Lee shooting years ago. How is it that "stunt guns" have live ammo?
happystuff
10-22-21, 9:53am
This reminded me of the Brandon Lee shooting years ago. How is it that "stunt guns" have live ammo?
That is always my question when I read about these things. Prop guns are supposed to have blanks!!!!!
ToomuchStuff
10-22-21, 10:32am
Brandon's wedding rehearsal (for the local in laws that wouldn't be able to make the wedding), was supposed to be the next weekend after he died. I was supposed to work it. (fiance and parents live behind us)
The gun had a plug which was dislodged and discharged when fired. It is thought that the same thing happened with this firearm (why you still don't point them at what you are not willing to destroy).
Blanks don't have bullets, but if the plug has an issue, it becomes the bullet.
TMS, that answers the questions I had. Thank you.
I've heard several reports today that a live round was in the gun. I think the other question I haven't heard addressed at this point is why was the gun pointed and fired at someone on the set. A major tenet of gun safety is that you never point a weapon at someone you don't intend to kill or injure, that you never take someone's word that a weapon is safe without checking it yourself and horseplay with a weapon should never be tolerated. There was more than one screwup in this incident.
A major tenet of gun safety is that you never point a weapon at someone you don't intend to kill or injure
I remember my dad telling me this when I was three years old, and several more times--it made a very strong impression on me. I think most children was taught that very early, at least in the 1950's.
But if he accidentally shot the Director of Photography and the director, could he have been pointing the gun at the camera, for a closeup of him pointing the gun, and something happened and that is why it hit those particular two people?
The story makes very little sense.
Why was the gun being pointed at the director of photography and the director? Were those two in some scene? Or was there...moronic horseplay afoot?
Then, as Alan points out, there are layers upon layers of safety violations.
(And as an aside, even "blanks" can kill or seriously injure at close range. Don't dork around with firearms, even "toy" ones, unless you know what the heck you are doing.)
iris lilies
10-22-21, 2:15pm
From The World of Truth otherwise known as Reddit posters, several of whom claim to be professionals in the film biz:
*gun may have been pointed at the cAmera not at people but Assistant Director and etc were sitting behind camera
* prop guns are real life guns, often old ones, because fake ones are too expensive to make
* there is on set safety protocol for handling prop guns and yes, someone screwed up big time
* blanks must be used because real life sounding fire is
important! ….this countered by many more posts that say NO! Explosive sounds are added by foley artists in editing…so who knows the truth
*realistic scenes require smoke of a real gunshot, CGI is way too expensive to get a realistic simulation….this countered by CGI pros who say “not at all…smoke is easy to produce…”. So who knows
rosarugosa
10-22-21, 2:23pm
The story makes very little sense.
Why was the gun being pointed at the director of photography and the director? Were those two in some scene? Or was there...moronic horseplay afoot?
Then, as Alan points out, there are layers upon layers of safety violations.
(And as an aside, even "blanks" can kill or seriously injure at close range. Don't dork around with firearms, even "toy" ones, unless you know what the heck you are doing.)
The only gun I ever play around with is my thumb and forefinger, and they are never loaded.
What a nightmare he gets to live with for the rest of his life even it turns out not to be his fault at all.
gimmethesimplelife
10-22-21, 7:08pm
I see this as an innocent tragedy - sometimes in spite of the best of intentions things just (expletive) up. I wonder if he will be facing charges? I seriously doubt any branch or division of the American justice system understands that sometimes things happen.
BUT KABOOM!!! I just had a deep thought. Is this all that different from Kim Potter, the former LEO in Brooklyn Park, MN, who fatally shot a motorist last Summer during the nationwide protests/rioting/hideous police practices brought to the clear light of day? Supposedly she was reaching for her taser and grabbed her gun instead. If she faces charges for behavior that was supposedly innocent, why does Mr. Baldwin get a free pass?
The gist of my question is - Where does the line of innocence vs. facing charges get drawn? Rob
The gist of my question is - Where does the line of innocence vs. facing charges get drawn? RobThese days it depends somewhat on the race of the parties involved.
The movie ranch where that happened is just up the road from me, about ten miles. Went to a friend's wedding there two years ago. Somebody I know of was working on the set and was about 4ft. away when it happened. What a horrible tragedy; I can't even imagine the guilt Baldwin must be feeling. It will be interesting to see all the facts as they come to light.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set?fbclid=IwAR0FMsZM7QdtuS2ophn8ZB0jWeX2AoOc1MB2M 3gzKJ_gz2R0vDaHWy5oO1A
I saw a video with John Schneider where he says that there are, or should be, so many safeguards in place to prevent something like this from happening. The cast and crew get trained about the guns they'll be using, there's someone to check if it's loaded, someone else to check if it's loaded before handing it to the actor, who should also check for himself if it's loaded. Someone didn't do their job and let a loaded gun get into the actor's hands. But he also should have checked for himself.
Supposedly there were 'red flags' noticed by an armorer who was going to work on this film. He didn't think there were enough safety precautions or enough crew on the set, so he passed on it.
I have shot guns a few times (a semi-automatic and revolver) and was told, like everyone else, to check it yourself and always assume it's loaded and never point it at anyone or anything you wouldn't want to hurt or kill.
A rumor the news floated was that some members of the crew were using the set guns for recreational target practice with live rounds. That might possibly explain some confusion. Otherwise I can't picture any function for live ammo on the set.
I've had similar training about never pointing a gun at anyone, but that rule obviously goes out when Hollywood requires otherwise and there arer popper precautions.
iris lilies
11-1-21, 1:59pm
A rumor the news floated was that some members of the crew were using the set guns for recreational target practice with live rounds. That might possibly explain some confusion. Otherwise I can't picture any function for live ammo on the set.
I've had similar training about never pointing a gun at anyone, but that rule obviously goes out when Hollywood requires otherwise and there arer popper precautions.
I know Alec Baldwin isnt popular in some circles, but those circles are insisting that Hollywood customs aside, when you take possession of a firearm, you check it for bullets and/or firing power.
Alec Baldwin himself may not be liable in criminal court, but Alec Baldwin as film producer will certainly see a lawsuit coming his way due to the irregularities on this set. One armorer refused to work on the set, another one who was interviewed said he questioned the film company’s offer to employ him as BOTH armorer AND Prop master. He didnt like the marriage of those two roles.
I know Alec Baldwin isnt popular in some circles, but those circles are insisting that Hollywood customs aside, when you take possession of a firearm, you check it for bullets and/or firing power.
That's a cardinal rule for anyone handling a firearm, even actors. No one should get a pass on this, not the armorer, the prop master, the assistant director or the actor who assumed all was safe. If Alec Baldwin ever again rants about guns he needs to be reminded that his gun didn't kill someone, he did.
He should have checked the weapon. I remember a training film showing the gruesome consequences of such mistakes, with a narrator intoning “this is what happens when you trust people”. But I still feel for the guy, no matter how obnoxious I may find him. He will carry a burden of guilt to the end of his days. And I can remember how disgusted I was by all the gloating jackals who had something to say about Dick Cheney’s hunting accident back in the day.
I'm very naive on Hollywood gun safety protocol. In good practice if not formal procedure, the user is responsible for checking to see if there are blanks or live rounds in the chamber or magazine? As common as firearms are in TV and movies, I would suspect that many or most actors or actresses don't even know how to remove a magazine from a semi-auto pistol or rifle, and then unload, inspect, and reload the ammunition without training. Revolvers would be easier. Pumpguns, lever actions, and bolt actions add to the complications. Maybe that will now change, but it seems to me like the actors should have some confidence when handed a weapon that an expert has verified it's state.
iris lilies
11-1-21, 5:42pm
I'm very naive on Hollywood gun safety protocol. In good practice if not formal procedure, the user is responsible for checking to see if there are blanks or live rounds in the chamber or magazine? As common as firearms are in TV and movies, I would suspect that many or most actors or actresses don't even know how to remove a magazine from a semi-auto pistol or rifle, and then unload, inspect, and reload the ammunition without training. Revolvers would be easier. Pumpguns, lever actions, and bolt actions add to the complications. Maybe that will now change, but it seems to me like the actors should have some confidence when handed a weapon that an expert has verified it's state.
One narrative I read states that gun training is required for those touching a gun on set. I suppose that depends on the production and its adherence to best practices, though.
Alec would not have had time for that, as he had to hustle to meet the production schedule to earn paesatas for the Spanish princess and her brood.
As common as firearms are in TV and movies, I would suspect that many or most actors or actresses don't even know how to remove a magazine from a semi-auto pistol or rifle, and then unload, inspect, and reload the ammunition without training.
The training required is not rocket science, and 10-15 minutes should suffice for anyone of marginal intelligence.
The training required is not rocket science, and 10-15 minutes should suffice for anyone of marginal intelligence.
For sure. I have just wondered if any sort of training program is, or was commonly in place or if the actors are on their own and trusting of the weapons experts. That would seem to make a difference in any assigment of blame or similar prevention in other instances.
iris lilies
11-1-21, 8:48pm
The training required is not rocket science, and 10-15 minutes should suffice for anyone of marginal intelligence.
Babe, its Hollywood. Give them an extra 10 minutes.
The video I mentioned also shows how they can just use special effects to show a flash from the "weapon" (Schneider used his finger as the gun). There's no need to actually fire any weapon.
I don't like Alec Baldwin either but he must be feeling horrible. It shows that training and precautions do work when you take into account just how many guns are used in TV and movies. These accidents could be happening more often.
ToomuchStuff
11-2-21, 10:09am
I'm very naive on Hollywood gun safety protocol. In good practice if not formal procedure, the user is responsible for checking to see if there are blanks or live rounds in the chamber or magazine?
Blanks are live rounds.
Heck, you shouldn't be sweeping people with an empty gun.
Blanks are live rounds.
Heck, you shouldn't be sweeping people with an empty gun.
A live round or live ammunition refers to a cartridge with powder and bullet, as opposed to a blank round which has no bullet. Fact check if you like.
A live round or live ammunition refers to a cartridge with powder and bullet, as opposed to a blank round which has no bullet. Fact check if you like.
A blank round typically has some sort of wadding to keep the powder in place, this wadding can also become a projectile at close proximity. I'd say that's live.
So when the person said, "cold gun," did he mean the gun was not loaded or that the gun was loaded with blanks? To me, it would mean the gun was not loaded with anything and would be incapable of firing.
The video I mentioned also shows how they can just use special effects to show a flash from the "weapon" (Schneider used his finger as the gun). There's no need to actually fire any weapon.
Come down to it, as the technology advances, there’s probably no need for actual actors anymore.
A blank round typically has some sort of wadding to keep the powder in place, this wadding can also become a projectile at close proximity. I'd say that's live.
To quibble over details, not all blanks have a wadding. Some crimp the brass of the casing to hold the powder in place. I would speculate under normal circumstances the lethal range of a blank is only a few feet, but either blank type could be physically damaging or fatal at "point blank' range. I'd take a wild guess that "round" in the term may be a carry over from the old musket style days when a bullet was actually round. But you are probably right, a cartridge with powder would be considered live, but not a live round. Where as a blank round indicates the "round" is blank or empty.
So when the person said, "cold gun," did he mean the gun was not loaded or that the gun was loaded with blanks? To me, it would mean the gun was not loaded with anything and would be incapable of firing.
I went through regular firearms training including annual range qualifications for over 30 years and never heard the term "cold gun" in those environments, it was either loaded or it was not. I'm assuming that in the movie industry's make-believe environment it means an empty or safe gun meaning that there were no live cartridges inside. One with blanks inside can still be dangerous, I believe an actor was killed on a set some years ago after shooting himself in the head with a blank round, the wadding struck him with enough force to fracture his skull.
happystuff
11-2-21, 1:03pm
One with blanks inside can still be dangerous, I believe an actor was killed on a set some years ago after shooting himself in the head with a blank round, the wadding struck him with enough force to fracture his skull.
Monday night's episode of NCIS had the murder victim die in this manner. Interesting timing!
I'm assuming that in the movie industry's make-believe environment .l.
When I lived in CA, I always enjoyed watching the anti-gun Hollywood industry carve out special exceptions for itself in CA gun control legislation.
iris lilies
11-2-21, 9:20pm
When I lived in CA, I always enjoyed watching the anti-gun Hollywood industry carve out special exceptions for itself in CA gun control legislation.
oh geez.
ToomuchStuff
11-3-21, 4:46am
So when the person said, "cold gun," did he mean the gun was not loaded or that the gun was loaded with blanks? To me, it would mean the gun was not loaded with anything and would be incapable of firing.
It is supposed to be a empty firearm, OR firearm replica (like the plastic guns where nothing works on them).
It is supposed to be a empty firearm, OR firearm replica (like the plastic guns where nothing works on them).
That is what my mind would hear it as, thanks. And thanks, Alan--it sounds like this is an industry term. In a pretty unsafe industry.
iris lilies
3-31-22, 2:52pm
And now we are reading about Bruce Willis in diminished mental capacity handling guns in his roles.
So smart of hollywood! Apparently some people on set were “concerned. “No kidding.
And now we are reading about Bruce Willis in diminished mental capacity handling guns in his roles.
So smart of hollywood! Apparently some people on set were “concerned. “No kidding.
Really? I heard about the aphasia diagnosis but didn't realize people had safety concerns about him.
Aphasia could be brand new material for Chris Rock.
Aphasia could be brand new material for Chris Rock.
I can’t think of one but there must be a joke that could somehow combine aphasia and allopiecia that he could use.
ToomuchStuff
3-31-22, 10:30pm
And now we are reading about Bruce Willis in diminished mental capacity handling guns in his roles.
So smart of hollywood! Apparently some people on set were “concerned. “No kidding.
What set?
Link to story?
Really? I heard about the aphasia diagnosis but didn't realize people had safety concerns about him.
Also heard about the diagnosis, but no safety concerns. Did say temporary on going away from acting, which I fear means tumor, rather then retiring. Then another story said retiring.
Aphasia is a language issue. https://www.aphasia.org/aphasia-definitions/?gclid=CjwKCAjwxZqSBhAHEiwASr9n9NN6xR85czyvxmfmLgG 8x0hEHQYAnIpKZRYvzFwORr4kTSAkQvVwDhoC7yQQAvD_BwE
He was probably having difficulty with dialogue.
Aphasia is a language issue. https://www.aphasia.org/aphasia-definitions/?gclid=CjwKCAjwxZqSBhAHEiwASr9n9NN6xR85czyvxmfmLgG 8x0hEHQYAnIpKZRYvzFwORr4kTSAkQvVwDhoC7yQQAvD_BwE
He was probably having difficulty with dialogue.
And it can be a symptom of Alzeheimers and other forms of dementia. I thought it was weird as a primary diagnosis, since it's used a lot as a symptom, but I looked it up and I guess it's its own condition.
So he could have had a stroke, or have something like Alzheimers that has damaged his brain. Poor guy. Seems so young for that. Made me really sad to hear.
Yeah, I suspect he has something else going on--either he's had minor strokes, or has beginning stages of Alzheimer's. Apparently he had to be fed his lines on set.
https://nypost.com/2022/03/31/bruce-willis-misfired-guns-on-set-amid-cognitive-struggles-report/
iris lilies
4-1-22, 8:25am
What set?
Link to story?
Also heard about the diagnosis, but no safety concerns. Did say temporary on going away from acting, which I fear means tumor, rather then retiring. Then another story said retiring.
catherine linked a news story above.
I love Bruce Willis, both on the set and off the set. He is well known for having a friendship with with his ex of many years, Demi Moore, as well as his kids. He is of course one of the few Hollywood political conservatives who is “out.” DH and I both have always liked him, and the film Fifth Element is one of our joint favorites.
With Bruce’s well reviewed films, we find a joint movie we both like and that isnt easy.
i’ll never forget the time I was attending a library conference in Chicago and I had a free evening. In the Lincoln Park neighborhood where I was staying there was a small movie theater. It only was showing one of the Diehard movies. I rolled my eyes and thought oh well I guess I’ll go but I’m not gonna like this movie since it’s a chase ‘em shoot ‘em up movie. Well I was wrong. I was lucky to stumble on probably the best Diehard film made, the one with Jeremy Irons (another lucky discovery) and it was GREAT!
I know what aphasia is because I looked it up many years ago when I was going through menopause. I had brain fog and I put it down to either 1) aphasia/dementia 2) small strokes 3) menopause fog. It turned out to be, fortunately, menopause fog because I came out of it.
Grief and stress seem to be able to cause temporary aphasia as well.
IL, I like Bruce Willis also. He comes across as an incredibly human action star. But he can also do comedy--I loved him in Death Becomes Her (which, BTW, I originally saw in a movie theatre in your home town--fond memories. My son was 7 at the time and he didn't know the alternate meaning of the word "becomes" so he would put the accent on the third word: Death Becomes HER).
Catherine, that article was so disturbing:
"Bruce Willis, who is stepping away from acting amid cognitive difficulties caused by aphasia, alarmed movie staffers two years ago when he misfired a gun loaded with a blank — and last year perplexingly asked what he was doing on a film set, according to a report."
The sounds more like dementia to me. But aphasia sounds less bad, and is less stigmatizing.
iris lilies
4-1-22, 10:08am
I can’t think of one but there must be a joke that could somehow combine aphasia and allopiecia that he could use.
Well, since good comedy punches up and not down, I think there’s plenty of macabre material here about guns on movie sets handled too casually and the Hollywood elite and their money machines.I am not clever enough to form the jokes.
iris lilies
4-1-22, 10:12am
Catherine, that article was so disturbing:
"Bruce Willis, who is stepping away from acting amid cognitive difficulties caused by aphasia, alarmed movie staffers two years ago when he misfired a gun loaded with a blank — and last year perplexingly asked what he was doing on a film set, according to a report."
The sounds more like dementia to me. But aphasia sounds less bad, and is less stigmatizing.
Aphasia probably manifested itself in the forefront of his disease with Willis since he was required to memorize lines.
He was probably pumping out these grade B- films in the last couple of years to store up funds to support his young family. His kids are ages 7 and 9. I would hope he’s not throwing money towards his adult children at this point but that is probably a fantasy. Hope he has a good business manager to hold and invest those funds.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.