How to prioritize and anticipate aging parents' needs? [Archive]

Oddball

11-4-21, 2:14pm

To those of you who have dealt with your parents' health and affairs during their final years, how ready were you and how much did you plan your own life around that period before it arrived? Did you prepare much? Or just let it happen?

My parents are still healthy in their early 80s and seem pretty settled in their home. They say they are thinking about possibly moving to independent living or assisted living "when the time comes." But I'm not convinced that they are thinking too hard about it, much less planning for it. I sense that it's easier for them simply to enjoy their lives now than to ponder the inevitable. I don't blame them.

Meanwhile, I feel a bit in limbo because I have my own life but want to be available to help them with whatever I can "when the time comes." I'm retired from full-time work now and have a lot of freedom, yet I feel hesitant to do anything big and bold, such as maybe living abroad for a while, or anything too committal, like buying a place and settling down for my own long haul. If I do the latter, would it be in my current town or in theirs nearly 100 miles away? Another dilemma.

Part of my problem is I haven't decided what I want for myself. But it's hard to determine this when I have no idea what I might need or be able to do for them, or how I might need to adjust for it.

My parents would tell me to live my own life and not worry about them, but I can't bring myself to do that. I'm the eldest child, and my only sibling is much father away and will not be nearly as available in the next decade or so (still raising kids and many years from retirement).

About 20 years ago, an older guy who had just lost his parents advised me to spend as much time with mine as I could. Back then we were 3,000 miles apart and I took him seriously and moved closer. No regrets, but we still have very separate lives and respect each other's choices.

I'm not unhappy where I am, renting a condo and enjoying friends and hobbies. But unlike my parents I like to get my ducks in a row. Maybe I'm the one who needs to relax and just live?

iris lilies

11-4-21, 2:21pm

I just got back from a garden club meeting. Garden club is full of little old ladies and if they themselves are not ill then their husbands are. So we have three of them going through caretaking of Alzheimer’s husbands right now, and perhaps a 4th. Most live in their 2000 ft.² plus multi acre places. One of them said two years ago that she’d have to be looking for another place to live but she wasn’t ready to do that and so she’s building an entirely new garden. To me this is not being realistic, but whatever.

My plan is this: I will die first and DH his family will have to figure out what to do with him. Not my worry! If I do not die first or become incapacitated first, then we will sell our Hermann house because it’s 1 acre on a hill and is not easy to maintain. Without DH I would probably move back to Iowa where my brother and my cousins are.

My real worry is the likely reality that one of us doesn’t drop dead but instead, becomes slowly incapacitated so that we can’t keep up the place Or keep finances straight, but stubbornly will not deal with that reality. That is what I see on this board all the time.

I have no desire to stay in my difficult-to- maintain property in Hermann without DH being fully able to take care of it. It’s a sort of place where we could hire mowing done for a year or two if something temporary would befall him, But it’s not the sort of place where year after year we want to hire out mowing because the whole point of us have a 1 acre is to have active gardening space.

herbgeek

11-4-21, 2:28pm

I can't answer your larger question, which sounds like "how much should I help my parents". Only you can answer that. But if you are looking for practical help, that I can offer. Help your parents to sort out and discard the stuff they aren't using, and help them streamline routines including perhaps outsourcing maintenance chores, sign up for meals on wheels, housekeeping services. Help them automate their finances, where possible. Help them distribute family heirlooms. Make sure they are getting regular medical care. Make it easier for them to stay in their house, as well as easier to move if they need to. Its a huge job to clean out a parents' home, its better if you aren't also crunched for time or overwhelmed with grief, and can take your time to deal with the emotional issues that may/will arise.

I have a mother with vascular dementia, as well as I suspect some mental illness, who was in huge denial about her condition and refused to let us kids do anything to make life easier for her after dad died, so we are doing the clean out now that she's in assisted living (against her will). I wish she had been able to be more cooperative for us to help her (but she'd been that way my whole life, this wasn't the dementia talking).

Oddball

11-4-21, 2:58pm

I can't answer your larger question, which sounds like "how much should I help my parents". Only you can answer that. But if you are looking for practical help, that I can offer. Help your parents to sort out and discard the stuff they aren't using, and help them streamline routines including perhaps outsourcing maintenance chores, sign up for meals on wheels, housekeeping services. Help them automate their finances, where possible. Help them distribute family heirlooms. Make sure they are getting regular medical care. Make it easier for them to stay in their house, as well as easier to move if they need to. Its a huge job to clean out a parents' home, its better if you aren't also crunched for time or overwhelmed with grief, and can take your time to deal with the emotional issues that may/will arise.

Thanks, indeed these are the kinds of things I want to help with, if and when my parents want my help. But the time has not come yet. My larger question, I guess, is how much should I plan my own life now in anticipation of helping them later, to make it easier for me to be available. That's my quandary. Since I have no idea when they will need help, or how much, it's hard weighing a bunch of unknowns.

But your list is helpful, thanks. It makes me lean toward staying mobile and not roaming too far.

Teacher Terry

11-4-21, 6:15pm

My dad was incapacitated by 59 and I helped my mom clean out the house over 2 years. At 63 they moved into a apartment. My mom put me on her bank account so I could pay bills if she couldn’t. I moved away for my career right before my dad died and they were 73. One sibling was a hour away and one 6. Neither helped with my dad’s 14 year illness. Until my mom died at 89 I flew home for her 3 bouts of cancer, stayed 2 weeks and went back to work. My siblings helped too. They were both retired by her terminal bout and a few times moved in with her for 2-4 weeks when it was needed.

pinkytoe

11-4-21, 6:42pm

I am sort of in the opposite train of thought. How do I arrange my life now in my 60s so that it works best for all as I get older and less able? I have an only child and I recall all too well what it was like to be caring for my ailing mother when I was in my 30s and raising a child without any help from my siblings. I probably shouldn't have moved 800 miles away, right? None of us older folk wish to be dependent on our kids to care for us but as in the case of my mother, a devastating stroke left her unable to figure things out even though she had many ducks in a row. I suppose if I were you that I would sit down with my parents and have a heart to heart about your feelings. Understand that your parent's demise can take much longer than you can imagine so it really is good to know what their plans/wishes are for eventual outcomes. I wouldn't stray too far but perhaps have some getaways now while it appears they are doing OK.

iris lilies

11-4-21, 7:31pm

If your parents are in their 80s they are one slip and fall away from being incapacitated on a permanent basis.

While that’s a bit strong, it is not unrealistic.

I’ve said it many times before, but our friends in this neighborhood who are aging well are those who sold their big houses and moved to one story condos. They are now mid 80’s.

Then, there’s another set of people my age who put down roots in our neighborhood but got rid of their giant houses and built something different. In one case a couple built a small carriage house and yes it has steps, but there’s also complete living quarters on the first floor. In another case a couple built a new house that’s multi story but it has everything on a first floor. In third case,the couple built a master suite on the first floor of their tall Victorian.

I would say that no matter how good your parents seem in their early 80s, if they haven’t made one change, If they haven’t investigated assisted living places and have their name on a list for a place that they like, they’re not accepting reality.

How do they currently take care of their house? Who does the yard work? Who does the cleaning? Do they have scads of stuff that has to be decluttered before they move?

pinkytoe

11-4-21, 8:00pm

I hope your parents are thinking about how they will get on if something happens to one or the other. I think about that a lot these days since I have been with DH since I was 20yo.

ApatheticNoMore

11-4-21, 9:16pm

Help your parents to sort out and discard the stuff they aren't using, and help them streamline routines including perhaps outsourcing maintenance chores, sign up for meals on wheels, housekeeping services. Help them automate their finances, where possible.

I can't even imagine a world in which parents would listen to me on this. Well my dad has passed on so I only have my mom. They have to ask for help first it seems, but with the strong wills involved well good luck with that.

So that's why my philosophy toward things I can do nothing about is just: the future will take care of itself (but I am available).

(I often liken family in my mind to climate change, though I may suffer from it, there isn't that much I can do about it)

Whether one calls it living in reality or not, what difference does that make, it's just words. I have no more influence on my mom than I do on someone out there who is convinced the vaccine is a microchip from Bill Gates. They aren't living in reality for sure, but I'm not going to change their mind. All I can do is rarely offer something like my mom staying with me for a couple weeks after surgery.

jp1

11-4-21, 9:30pm

As Apatheticnomore has pointed out, and has been discussed in various other threads here over time, a lot of this depends on your parents. How open are they to offers of help/suggestions of how to prepare for a different future? If they are resistant there's probably not much you can do right now other than wait for the dreaded phone call that something terrible has happened and then deal with the chaos as best you can.

My sister and I were fortunate that my father moved himself to an assisted living place 4 years before he died (and 4 years after our mother died). Then, over the remaining 4 years, he let my sister take over more of the day to day of his finances so that by the time he was in the hospital for the last time (which lasted 6 months) it was just a matter of her getting added to a couple more accounts so that when he finally died everything was organized to make the distribution of his assets pretty painless.

herbgeek

11-5-21, 6:39am

I can't even imagine a world in which parents would listen to me on this.

Me either! I wrote this list based on all the stuff I /wished/ we could have done for my folks. But Dad was proud and Mom is stubborn, as well as possessing a pathologic need to be perfect at all times, so any suggestion of help was rejected because she was perfect and there was nothing wrong to help. If Mom had gone first, my Dad would have allowed us to do some sorting/downsizing, perhaps signing him up for a meal service, but would have rejected anything that sounded to him that we were treating him like an invalid.

catherine

11-5-21, 8:07am

I can't even imagine a world in which parents would listen to me on this. Well my dad has passed on so I only have my mom. They have to ask for help first it seems, but with the strong wills involved well good luck with that.

So that's why my philosophy toward things I can do nothing about is just: the future will take care of itself (but I am available).

(I often liken family in my mind to climate change, though I may suffer from it, there isn't that much I can do about it)

I like your philosophy. That's how I feel.

I lost my parents a long time ago, so I can't relate to the "child" part, but a) I do hope my kids care as much about me as you guys care about your parents, and b) I also hope my kids intercede only when medically necessary, or when I ask for help. I wouldn't appreciate being treated like a child by my children.

That's why I'm tempted to say to the OP, leave it alone for now.

rosarugosa

11-5-21, 8:54am

I feel like I should have lots of useful advice, but I'm too much in the thick of the trees to be able to see the forest, or something like that. Like Pinkytoe, I'm also trying to use this opportunity to look forward and make good decisions for DH & me, especially since we don't have any children to provide assistance. Herbgeek gave some good guidance, and I would add to make sure the necessary legal documents have been completed, such as power of attorney, living will, etc.
One of the things that I really regret is not having been more forward-thinking about housing. Mom has a fully-paid home, but it isn't conducive to multi-generational living (3 bedrooms and one bath, all upstairs, very limited parking). DH & I have a fully-paid home, but our tiny one bedroom, one bath cottage (bedroom upstairs and bathroom downstairs) is even less conducive to multi-generational living than Mom's house. So we have all this home equity, but not a house that would work for us to live together. I figure we'll be lucky if Mom can manager another two years living alone, but of course, who really knows what the future will bring or how long she will be around.
I am definitely someone who likes to plan and have my ducks in a row, but I would have to give myself a failing grade thus far on this big picture stuff.
I should also add that when I retired in late 2017, my 82-year-old mother was the strong, independent and capable woman I had always known. By late 2018, she had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and at this point, she can barely be considered a functioning human being, so things can change pretty quickly. If your parents in their early eighties want to be at all proactive about the future, the time has come!

razz

11-5-21, 9:36am

I like your philosophy. That's how I feel.

I lost my parents a long time ago, so I can't relate to the "child" part, but a) I do hope my kids care as much about me as you guys care about your parents, and b) I also hope my kids intercede only when medically necessary, or when I ask for help. I wouldn't appreciate being treated like a child by my children.

That's why I'm tempted to say to the OP, leave it alone for now.
I agree with all of this post. Stay in regular touch to monitor each other - parents ensuring all is well with kids and kids ensuring all is well with parents. Love in action.

Tybee

11-5-21, 10:05am

So many great posts here. Being in the thick of this right now myself, I really can't give much good advice, except to say that my husband and I are using this current disaster to plan so that we don't have the same disaster, and I would urge you strongly to live your own life fully and worry about their lives later, rather than trying to prioritize them and not living your best life now. Cannot say this strongly enough. We put off our lives to care for them, even to where we live, and what a mistake.

Your mom can move near you in the future if she needs your help. Make your life full and rich right now--that is your job. She is on her own path, and you must invest in your own life.

flowerseverywhere

11-5-21, 1:31pm

Houses can be made much more friendly to accommodate them in their home. We did it to our own home when we suddenly were hospitalized within a few days of each other. It was a long climb back to wellness. we also have helped MIL do the same.
first remove throw rugs and other tripping hazards. Remove ladders from the home. A sturdy steps tool with sturdy railings might be OK.
examine the house for low light areas. Outdoor lighting as well as indoor needs to have a clear path.

if there are inside stairs is there a secure railing?

are outside stairs and paths have sturdy railings and well maintained.

We have done all these things because we don’t want to be a burden.

Change shower heads to ones you can move around with a hose type connection. We have a teak shower bench in our bathroom that looks nice and can be used in the actual shower. We have used it a few times.

get rid of excess furniture and stuff. Much easier to navigate and prevent falls.

are their affairs in order? Make sure wills and beneficiaries are up to date as well as power of attorney and their burial wishes. We have prepaid funeral expenses

ada approved grab bars in showers, toilets and so on.

iris lilies

11-5-21, 3:25pm

I asked DH to put grab bars in the upstairs bathroom I’ll be using in Hermann. He is not putting grab bars in HIS bathroom but that’s up to him.

The funniest thing about this Herman house is that it had handles everywhere—Along the basement steps, along the wall of outdoor steps, etc. A man and woman who were probably in their 70s when they sold it had installed regular 4 inch handles, not grab bars, everywhere. But what was “funny” is that they put shiny ceramic tile on the front porch and all over the back deck. That is slick as snot when wet and I do not understand their thinking.

We have ripped out all of that shiny, slippery ceramic tile.

For the downstairs bathroom we got one of those ugly molded showers and we talked about a seat in it, but I didn’t want to commit to that, and I told DH later we could just add a plastic chair if need be.

this week we had a talk with the staircase lady, the owner of a store that provides staircase parts. She told us what the code is for staircases and we plan to follow it even though I’m not certain that inspector in Hermann will be that picky. Also in order to meet code I’m having to forgo the railing I would prefer for aesthetic purposes. Code requires that it be easy to grip and it defines how wide it can be. I would prefer a handrail that is wider.

Teacher Terry

11-5-21, 6:21pm

I definitely don’t understand the ceramic tile as that’s very slippery. My bathtub is very low and I put a non slip mat inside it. I don’t have any trip hazards either.

SteveinMN

11-5-21, 7:44pm

It's hard to figure out what to do.

DW's mom (89) made it easy. A couple of years ago, after maybe the fourth time the fire department had to get into her house to pick her up off the floor after she fell, DMiL decided she didn't want to live independently any more. So into assisted living, which lasted a few months until she fell enough there that they sent her to a nursing home. However, she loves it where she is: home care is no longer overwhelming, she has her own little place, she has social outlets, etc. She can put her energy into be-ing.

My mom (87) still can function largely independently though we're seeing a few cognitive issues and her housekeeping has deteriorated considerably. She is, as someone else wrote (IL?) that she's one good fall away from not being able to live in the house I rent to her. She cannot move in with us. There is the space but not the temperament (hers or ours) .Fortunately, for the extremely minimal planning my mother has done to prepare for her own future, moving in with us does not seem to be part of that plan. So I guess we'll have to keep watching and wait until she can no longer live on her own -- or her body just gives out. In the meantime, she's nominally happy with being largely housebound and things just kind of work. We've given up on the idea of my mother doing any more planning around her own passing and agreed that major changes to the house will come once it's empty and cleaned up for sale. She will not be able to do it. Roll up a dumpster; we'll take care of it when she's gone. It's just not worth the turmoil those discussions cause.

There are no other parents to worry about. Fortunately, we are not snowbirds and don't intend to be, and we have no plans to move from where we live now unless it is not physically possible to adapt the house to whatever one of us needs. And we're both retired now so it's easier to attend care conferences and get mom to the doctor and help out with the occasional household task. Sometimes retirement feels a little bit like limbo because we feel we should be doing something more concrete with our time. But we've become very close/confidantes to two other older couples and we want to be available for them, too. So I suppose this is what we feel we should be doing now. Good enough for now.

pinkytoe

11-5-21, 8:02pm

We know the house we are currently in is not good for growing old - tri-level with no bedroom or bath on the main level but...the present real estate situation is making it next to impossible to find anything better suited. I know that I will be in my late 70s when DD is dealing with teenagers and she surely won't need the stress of an aging mom. I hate the thought of 55+ places but that may be how it goes.

iris lilies

11-5-21, 8:08pm

OP, I am the last one to counsel you to living your life in deference to what’s going on with your parents. In my family my brother in another state took care of our mother in the same town till she went to a nursing home.

But she had all of her ducks in a row before she got dementia: she told us about money, our names were on her accounts, I THINK he had power of attorney and power of health attorney (csnnot remember) , and she also sold her house and downsized a couple of times, even though the house she and my dad lived in was just a little 900 square-foot ranch with a typical suburban yard.

OP, it is hard to know from your first post what exactly you know about your parents plans. But I will tell you that you should be afraid, be very afraid, if they truly have no clarity on how they will get out of their house and they haven’t talked with you about their finances. That is a Time bomb with a short fuse since they’re in their 80s.

You should have a talk with them about their plans if you truly don’t know about their finances and their next step in living. If they don’t want to talk to you about that, then you’ve done your due diligence and you owe them nothing when the time comes because I guarantee you the time will come when they will expect your help, and you may be off on a .european adventure at the time.

It is always a mad scramble, getting elderly incapacitated parents into a living situation and dealing with their house. There are tight deadlines and big financial impacts and tons of things to do. If no preplanning has taken place, then it is 10 times worse.

pinkytoe

11-6-21, 12:01am

My MIL was/is one of those women who always depended on others to figure out her life and take care of her. And even now that she is in an assisted living facility, she is still entirely dependent on her children to tend to her every whim. And now it must be decided what to do with her house since here derelict niece has moved out. None of us ever expected her to live to be be 87 but yet it drags on...

Tybee

11-6-21, 8:39am

iris lilies

11-6-21, 9:06am

Isn't that good news that the niece moved out? Wasn't it a possibility for you to buy the house and move back?
I agree, that seems like the best thing. Why is it such a chore to decide what to do with the house? It seems like your husband’s family will clean it out and sell it As IS In a housing market that is a strong as it’s ever been and you will have no trouble getting rid of it. That money can go to pay her assisted living expenses.

pinkytoe

11-6-21, 10:59am

buy the house and move back?
We decided we didn't want to be in a house where we had to spend so much time unwillingly in years past. As with all family decisions about shared assets, this one is troublesome. DH and sibs are not close so there is no communication. He was initially executor but that was changed to his sister and brother by the family lawyer when his father passed. He takes that very personally and holds it against his sibs...another reason not to buy that house.

iris lilies

11-6-21, 11:48am

We decided we didn't want to be in a house where we had to spend so much time unwillingly in years past. As with all family decisions about shared assets, this one is troublesome. DH and sibs are not close so there is no communication. He was initially executor but that was changed to his sister and brother by the family lawyer when his father passed. He takes that very personally and holds it against his sibs...another reason not to buy that house.
You are right that family relationship dynamics are always problematic.

That is too bad that your husband’s sense of responsibility toward his mother is soured.

As I watch DH’s sister handle their father’s estate (she is co executor along with the youngest brother of the 5 siblings) I am just relieved DH is not having to do that work. DH doesn’t mind not being the executor either, as the eldest and a son.
His two siblings got the job because they live closer to their family home.

Oddball

11-6-21, 1:08pm

I am sort of in the opposite train of thought. How do I arrange my life now in my 60s so that it works best for all as I get older and less able? . . .

I wouldn't stray too far but perhaps have some getaways now while it appears they are doing OK.

If your parents are in their 80s they are one slip and fall away from being incapacitated on a permanent basis.

I also hope my kids intercede only when medically necessary, or when I ask for help. I wouldn't appreciate being treated like a child by my children.

That's why I'm tempted to say to the OP, leave it alone for now.

I would urge you strongly to live your own life fully and worry about their lives later, rather than trying to prioritize them and not living your best life now. Cannot say this strongly enough. We put off our lives to care for them, even to where we live, and what a mistake.

Sometimes retirement feels a little bit like limbo because we feel we should be doing something more concrete with our time.

But I will tell you that you should be afraid, be very afraid, if they truly have no clarity on how they will get out of their house and they haven’t talked with you about their finances.

Thank you all for the thoughtful replies. The ones above echo my concerns -- how to weigh all these factors while living my own life vs. trying to remain available if and when needed.

On paper, their affairs are reasonably in order. They have wills and medical directives and have done significant (50 percent) downsizing. I don't know all of their financial details, but I have access to their accounts and know where their files are.

However, there is no clarity about how they will get out of their house. It's three stories. They could live on the first floor if they had to, and this seems to be their plan. If it's their deepest desire, I'd rather think about how to help them do this than try to persuade them otherwise. Maybe they will change their minds at some point, but I think it will need to be their idea.

Re the first quote above, from pinkytoe, the other side of my dilemma is how to position myself now for possibly the next 30-40 years with no kids. I need to get real for my own benefit too. I'll be 55 soon and am already casually scouting senior communities where the typical age is over 70.

To you guys who are in the thick of this already, thank you for sharing your experiences. I'm sorry things are so hard, and I wish you well as you get through it.

iris lilies

11-6-21, 2:59pm

Thank you all for the thoughtful replies. The ones above echo my concerns -- how to weigh all these factors while living my own life vs. trying to remain available if and when needed.

On paper, their affairs are reasonably in order. They have wills and medical directives and have done significant (50 percent) downsizing. I don't know all of their financial details, but I have access to their accounts and know where their files are.

However, there is no clarity about how they will get out of their house. It's three stories. They could live on the first floor if they had to, and this seems to be their plan. If it's their deepest desire, I'd rather think about how to help them do this than try to persuade them otherwise. Maybe they will change their minds at some point, but I think it will need to be their idea.

Re the first quote above, from pinkytoe, the other side of my dilemma is how to position myself now for possibly the next 30-40 years with no kids. I need to get real for my own benefit too. I'll be 55 soon and am already casually scouting senior communities where the typical age is over 70.

To you guys who are in the thick of this already, thank you for sharing your experiences. I'm sorry things are so hard, and I wish you well as you get through it.

Ah! That sounds good, quite good. Their finances are in order and they’ve gotten rid of 50% of their crap.

You may be OK then to think that they could live in the first floor of their house, with assistance.

catherine

11-6-21, 3:03pm

My cousin and aunt live in a beautiful farmhouse in CT. They considered leaving years ago, but decided to do a reverse mortgage instead. Many will say that's not a good financial decision, but it enabled them to live in the home they had lived in for years. I don't think either of them are considering how they might benefit their heirs. My cousin never married. My aunt divorced my uncle and my uncle basically did squat for his children.

Aunt J's bed is now on the first floor--that's where she sleeps. She's of sound mind, slightly hard of hearing, and slightly immobile in that she can't climb stairs anymore.

My cousin is only a week older than I am, so that's to say 69, going on 70 in March. I'm happy they can stay in the home they've had for many years. Aunt J is 95, I think. so my cousin probably doesn't have many years left with her.

Oddball

11-6-21, 3:51pm

Ah! That sounds good, quite good. Their finances are in order and they’ve gotten rid of 50% of their crap.
Well, the half they kept is still a lot. They purged a few years ago to move to a much smaller home, then promptly filled the new place to their comfort level of clutter. But all in all it will be manageable. The sentimental stuff will be minimal (mostly photos), and the rest can be sold or donated. If this becomes my job when they are gone, it will be OK. If they have to do it themselves to move into assisted living, it could be mentally paralyzing because they are very attached to their clutter.

saguaro

11-17-21, 12:39pm

On paper, their affairs are reasonably in order. They have wills and medical directives and have done significant (50 percent) downsizing. I don't know all of their financial details, but I have access to their accounts and know where their files are.

However, there is no clarity about how they will get out of their house. It's three stories. They could live on the first floor if they had to, and this seems to be their plan. If it's their deepest desire, I'd rather think about how to help them do this than try to persuade them otherwise. Maybe they will change their minds at some point, but I think it will need to be their idea.

Hello Oddball, perhaps chiming in a bit late here but the above is somewhat similar to my late parents' situation except for the 50% decluttering. Mom died in 2015, Dad in 2017. On paper they had everything together: will/trust, medical and financial POAs. But their house? Stuffed to the gills from years of accumulation not only of their things but they also stored both a lot of stuff from both sets of grandparents. They did do some downsizing of large items such as a camper, a piano, some big equipment, their 2nd car but there came a point where Mom was no longer physically able to do it and Dad, well just wanted to do other things. Eventually the spaces they cleared out got replaced with more stuff. Going through the stuff was a nightmare complicated by a difficult sibling who was the executor (long story is posted on another thread).

We started decluttering after Mom died and while Dad was still alive. I wasn't sure that was a good idea even though Dad said he was OK with it at first but it was obvious he was being pushed into it by executor sibling. As time went on, he became more stressed by the process because same sibling kept pushing for more than what he was comfortable with. At that point, I said we should stop because unless it's really his idea, this wasn't going to work.

happystuff

9-5-22, 4:55pm

Reviving this thread as we (all my mother's children - there are quite a number of us) recently had a skype meeting. I have one sibling (retired) who is the primary caregiver/lives closest to my mother and an another who lives with mom but still works. The rest of us are on the other side of the country.

Anyway, my retired sibling has been talking to my mom (90 yo - adequate but declining health) and several decisions have been made by mom regarding her nearing end of life and actual end of life plans and wishes. While a very emotional session, it was amazingly rewarding, comforting, informative, etc. My mother has (finally) come to terms with her mortality and this skype meeting - at least for me - is helping me come to terms with not just her mortality, but my own. "Surviving" the death of a loved one when it is a surprise and sudden event is so different than having the ability to make plans and choices.

No real point to this, except to say that I'm so proud of my mother and all my siblings for how all of this is being handled to date. I only hope that I can prepare myself, my children, and my other family and friends in such a fine manner.

sweetana3

9-5-22, 5:19pm

Mother in law is 90 and has all her paperwork in place. She got her funeral all planned and paid for. She is now decluttering stuff. We got 5 boxes of books and 5 big bags of yarn to donate. She does not have a lot of things since not much comes in except for food.

We plan on calling Habitat for Humanity Restore when she passes to take everything in her place. All but the bed, clothes, and perishables would be taken by them.

Biggest issue is that inbetween time if she should become incapacitated. She placed her own mom in assisted/nursing home and dealing with it was unpleasant. Nothing we can do at present.

Yppej

9-5-22, 6:08pm

Yppej

9-5-22, 6:11pm

Then there is this guy, unwilling to give up his squatter lifestyle at age 81:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/river-dave-banned-hampshire-site-moves-maine-88494875#:~:text=CONCORD%2C%20N.H.%20%2D%2D%20A%20 hermit,a%20new%20home%20in%20Maine.

iris lilies

9-5-22, 6:35pm

DB is dealing with this as SIL had to start the school year. His supposed job was to get his parents in law into assisted living but they are stubborn and so he is doing things like install grab bars in their shower, yard work, cooking and chauffeuring. She is too blind to drive, he is too weak, but they will not give up their car and certainly not their house. They live in an area with no mass transit. He is driving them to all their medical appointments now but unknown what will happen when he flies back home.

Their other daughter and SIL are longtime expats who will not move back to the US to help. It will probably take a fall or other issue to get them safely ensconced in some type of apartment living vs the single family home where they are now.

It's hard when a person is mentally sound but won't acknowledge and accommodate their physical condition because you can't do anything.

The way you deal with this is to NOT do yard work, driving them around, cooking.

i still remember the gold nugget of advice about responsibility offered here: tell your parents you will help care for THEM but not their STUFF.
Help them get meals into their freezer or delivered, but maintaining a fully functional kitchen with stocked groceries….nope. Help them get to dr’s appointments but no driving to shopping for crap they dont need or other unneeded trips.

My former neighbor has a responsible job engineering war machines at Boeing and also has an elderly mother who uses all of the standard ploys to avoid facing reality. She whines that she doesnt want him to disrupt his life to help her move to assisted living, but in reality SHE doesn't want to move, and he was at her house fixing, mowing, etc her house each weekend.

She drug herself out of rehab after a fall, and refused to follow dr’s orders.

she refuse a walker and cries when her kids speak to her about it, but she clings to each of them when going some place because she is unsteady on her feet.

Our engineer friend spends many of his workdays now at her house, working from there, keeping an eye on her as she is frail and prone to falling.

what a burdon.

Teacher Terry

9-5-22, 8:12pm

My parents downsized from a house to a apartment at 63 because my dad was sick. They were realists and so am I. They had all their paperwork in order from age 50 and their funeral expenses paid for by 65. I am in a condo and have bought my urn plot and have all my affairs in order.

Tybee

9-6-22, 7:16am

My folks were all about aging in place, and had things lined up to do so--no hoarding, adequate money, support people to fix things--and then they became incapacitated and aging in place became trying to die in place. There were unsuccessful at that, since they both have incredibly strong constitutions and an indominatable subconscious will to live. Then a fall put them both in permanent assisted living, although my father up to his dying day was trying to get back home, would not sell the house, etc..

Looking back at the process, my husband and I have promised each other that by 85, we will be transitioning to an apartment-based lifestyle where we do not have to drive. Of course at the time, he will probably fight that tooth and nail.

One caveat--getting them into assisted living is not the end of the feeling of fear and responsibility, as things go wrong there, too. It may not be a problem when I get old, as I imagine involuntary euthanasia will be happening at that point. I don't see that all these Boomers will be offered the same kind of resources for care that this WWII vets are getting. No one has it in them anymore financially to care for their parents, and the generations that follow are quite bitter towards Boomers, so there's that.

My parents were lucky in that their frugality gave them options.

I tell people not to do what we did to try to help aging parents, but now that Dad is dead, I at least know that I can live knowing a great feeling of relief that I helped him, and he was very grateful, and I feel I played my part in the generations. I also modeled loving behavior for my own children, so hopefully, they will be willing to care about me when I am that age, if I make it that long.

iris lilies

9-6-22, 9:37am

There’s not a week that goes by where I don’t experience a small trip over something outside. I always catch myself but .i always think…next year, maybe not. In five years, you will go down Iris. Hermann is a sea of trip hazards outdoors.

Inside, this house is fine for seniors.

good for you Tybee in thinking about this. Remember how razz is always trying to get us to consider late-in-life living conditions. (Sorry that razz has been absent for some time.)

I don’t bother trying to make a decision like Tybee about when we leave Hermann because DH will not participate. The best I can do is think about what I personally want to do. And I think about my sister-in-law who at a point moved herself to assisted-living and told her husband out on the farm “ You can come when you want to, but if I can’t make you I’m leaving anyway. “Within about 18 months he did move there.

My own problem with Hermann is at the assisted living center is so ugly. Ick. There’s not one thing nice about it, not the setting, not the building. On the other hand, St. Louis has many nice places I would go.

And really, our condo building is senior-friendly and is the last stop before senior assisted living. We have a couple people with walkers, and two young people in wheelchairs, and many people in their late 60’s and 70’s.

Teacher Terry

9-6-22, 1:00pm

We have many seniors in our condo building and most live there until they die. Most never need assisted living. I have been helping a friend for over a year and because he has Parkinson’s disease and a host of other issues it was either AL or a nursing home. He had a number of falls, etc before we convinced him it was needed. He is only 71 and always took good care of himself. He just lost the genetic lottery.

Rachel

4-12-23, 8:18am

Hello Oddball, just coming to this thread a little late and I haven't read all the responses. My thought is that your parents seem to be signaling that they are content for you to live your life. That is a blessing. I would see nothing unethical or wrong about you choosing to prioritize your life while you still are healthy yourself.

dado potato

4-13-23, 12:16pm

AARP and University of Minnesota produced a 50-page booklet
http://ThinkingAheadRoadmap.org

The main concept is that aging persons can engage a qualified "financial advocate" to assist as needed with money matters. I understand that the advocate's role changes as physical or cognitive decline sets in.

Tybee

6-14-23, 4:33am

Reviving the thread again to give an update on prioritizing and anticipating aging parents' needs. My mom died on Friday and so I am just now starting the journey out of this experience of doing these things very heavily for the past five years, since Dad fell and they left their house permanently, first stop at hospital. After hospital came rehab, then assisted living and finally mom got to memory care. It was five and a half years of living in facilities, dealing with their house, obtaining guardianship and conservatorship of my mother. So if parents are refusing your help, and saying they will remain to "age in place," which was my father's mantra, this may be where the story goes from this point. Or it may not--they had an 85 year old neighbor die on his ATV out working on a fence for his cows, and everyone thought it was so tragic, but now I see he won the dying lottery--Lawrence had a wonderful death, rapid, painless, and doing what he loved.

I cannot say the same for either of my parents. I read over my posts on this thread with interest because it reflected my thinking that moving here was a big mistake. In some ways, it was. My family fractured over the stress of disagreeing how best to handle every situation that came up with them, so living here has been quite painful in many ways. But if we had not moved, I would not have been present with my parents up to the moments of their death, which is how this story ended. I'm so inutterably grateful to have been with my mother on her deathbed, although she died after I left--but I'm not sure she could have died with me there. As it turned out, I was here with her for the worst two and half years of her life, and was able to support her even at the end.

So I am not sure what I think now of telling people, as I did then, that this was mistake and you should "fully invest in your life" which seemed to me the truth at the time--there are so many things my husband and I have not done over the past five years that we dearly wanted to do, because of caring for my parents--maybe we will regret it-- I don't know. I guess we have already regretted it--but being able to be with her through the scariest times of her life, and then at the very difficult death process that she underwent--I'm so grateful.

I guess I would add that anticipating and prioritizing their needs is almost impossible, but every bit of planning does help. I could never have imagined that this would go on so long, for example. I know Dad thought he would "age in place" and die in his beloved rocking chair in the family room, but that was five years ago, and life went on for both of them, and they had to adapt to two new nursing homes, and three for my mother. My mother did not even get to die in her regular room in memory care--she went first to the hospital, and then for some unfathomable reason, was sent back to "die at home" and then less than 24 hours before she died, she was moved on an elevator to a different room in a different part of the facility to die there. Proving again that Lawrence had the right idea, die on the farm taking care of the fencing. She would have preferred that, too.

herbgeek

6-14-23, 5:05am

So sorry for your loss Tybee.

rosarugosa

6-14-23, 6:11am

I'm so sorry for the loss of your mother, Tybee. It must have been a great comfort to her to have you with her in these last difficult years.

sweetana3

6-14-23, 6:29am

I believe that any regrets you have will pale when the best memories of your mom and dad surface and you can remember the care you were able to give when needed. So sorry for your loss.

catherine

6-14-23, 7:19am

Beautiful reflections at the end of your journey as caregiver, Tybee. Having been at the deathbeds of my mother and mother-in-law, I agree that the experience is a blessing. I believe you will look back on these difficult years since your move and find those to be a blessing as well, despite the sacrifices you made. So sorry for your loss.

Tybee

6-14-23, 7:54am

Thank you, all, so much.

frugal-one

6-14-23, 8:00am

Adding my condolences! As others have said, you surely were a source of comfort…. your parents are/were lucky to have you!

iris lilies

6-14-23, 9:54am

Thank you, all, so much.
I’m glad your mother is at peace because I know her last years were not good. There is nothing that can be done about that kind of illness other than comfort care. You all did a good job of taking care of her and maximizing what could be done.

my mother died with dementia in a nursing home, and I considered that place pretty decent, all things considered.

Tybee

6-14-23, 9:59am

Thank you, frugal-one and Iris. Yes, nursing homes are different than I thought originally, and a good place for people with dementia to live out their lives. It's also good when people can stay with family. it just depends on the circumstances, where to be.

beckyliz

6-14-23, 4:37pm

my condolences.

Tybee

6-14-23, 4:59pm

Thank you, beckyliz.

SiouzQ.

6-14-23, 8:12pm

I'm sorry for your loss, Tybee. I can relate, as my 95 year old dad passed back in April.

pinkytoe

6-14-23, 10:14pm

I am sorry, Tybee. That final release from being a caretaker for a long time leaves a lot of thoughts and emotions to deal with. Regrets, sorrow, relief that it's over. It is just one of those hard life events one deals with and then hopefully moves on to happier days knowing that you did what you could.

Tradd

6-14-23, 11:09pm

So sorry, Tybee

Yppej

6-15-23, 5:17am

My sympathies Tybee.

Tybee

6-15-23, 5:27am

Thank you all, so much.

Tybee

6-15-23, 5:30am

I'm sorry for your loss, Tybee. I can relate, as my 95 year old dad passed back in April.

SiouzQ, my condolences. I hope you are holding up okay.

happystuff

6-15-23, 4:52pm

So sorry for your loss, Tybee. Lots of wisdom in your post. Thanks.

happystuff

6-15-23, 4:53pm

My condolences to you as well, SiouzQ.

early morning

6-19-23, 11:51am

Just caught up with this thread - so sorry for your loss - both to Tybee and SiouzQ. My mother, at 98, died peacefully in a memory care facility, just after we all left for the night. Stubborn to the end, I'm sure she waited for us to go away, lol. She wanted to live out her life at "home", but what she thought of as home morphed about as she deteriorated. At the end, she was sure she was back in the home she and dad built pretty much by hand, so that was all good. My father took his own life when it became clear to him that he, only in his 70s, was going to be unable to continue living as he wanted, and he simply refused to accept those conditions. This was not a shock to any of us, though we were all sad to lose him.

May those who pass, and those who love them, all find peace.

Tybee

6-19-23, 11:55am