Big bird has gotten all woke or something [Archive]

jp1

11-7-21, 2:10pm

Yesterday on twitter Ted Cruz raged against him for encouraging children to get vaccinated. The horror! Perhaps someone would like to explain how this fits in with the 'republicans are in favor of vaccination' idea that some claim, with a straight face, to be reality.

iris lilies

11-7-21, 2:32pm

I am “in favor of vaccination” against Covid for those who choose it and its risks. I usually vote the Republican ticket.

Are you saying I’m not entitled to do that next time around?

jp1

11-7-21, 2:34pm

iris lilies

11-7-21, 2:38pm

I'm simply saying that when ted cruz rages against big bird for encouraging vaccination it makes the whole republican claim that they support vaccination sound like the damn lie that any non-comatose person can see it to be.

oh! I did not know Ted Cruze was my appointed thought leader. I guess I had better get with the program. Or, do ya think they will kick me out?

jp1

11-7-21, 2:53pm

oh! I did not know Ted Cruze was my appointed thought leader. I guess I had better get with the program. Or, do ya think they will kick me out?

If this were the only time a republican politician has been publicly 'don't you dare encourage the vax' you might have a point.

LDAHL

11-7-21, 2:58pm

Ted Cruz has himself been vaccinated. You can agree that people should be vaccinated without believing that people must be vaccinated, with the force of government prodding and coercion backing up your belief. I will grant you that there are less obnoxious spokesmen for that view than Senator Cruz.

ApatheticNoMore

11-7-21, 3:25pm

Since when do conservatives see employment mandates as coercion (because there is no other mandate). Generally that type of stuff is never objected to, you need to pee in a cup for employment, pee in that cup, or take a blood drug test (though most jobs I have had don't require them, I've done this), you need to be psyched tested for this job interview, take that psychological test - there is probably no science behind that at all. They need to check your criminal record for a job, it gets checked, in most states they can check the credit record as well (maybe not here, CA employment rules are generally pro-employee). And can't you just opt for weekly covid tests rather than a vaccine anyway? And many jobs have always always required vaccine, you want to work in the medical field, better show you are vaxxed for a bunch of stuff.

Now here's a sad story: I had a old coworker trying to get a job for a medical corporation, needed A BUNCH of vaccines first, didn't grow up in the U.S. or a first world country, so didn't have a lot of the vaccines we do early in life, was unemployed and so was uninsured and COULDN'T AFFORD the costs of vaccination (as unlike the covid vax, most vaccines aren't free, they can be fairly costly). Talk about getting kicked when you are down. But this story has a happy ending: they got a different job that didn't require this big expense up front.

JaneV2.0

11-7-21, 3:39pm

I've had to get a smallpox vaccination, a TB test, a psychological test (for a part-time job at Sears, which earned me a spot in the jewelry department), a drug test (which I registered a protest to), a couple of what seemed to be IQ tests, a home visit (back in the day). Standard operating procedure, it seems to me.

I'm with Big Bird, personally.

Alan

11-7-21, 3:45pm

I'm simply saying that when ted cruz rages against big bird for encouraging vaccination it makes the whole republican claim that they support vaccination sound like the damn lie that any non-comatose person can see it to be.
I know you're always looking for a reason to hate republicans, and that's ok, it probably makes you happy. That said, I prefer context over blind hatred. I'm personally on the fence about vaccinations for young children, their covid mortality rate is extremely low and the long term effects on vaccinated children is unknown. I'm really glad I'm not in a position to have to make that decision.

I'm not familiar with whatever tweet you saw but I can understand how a parent can and should be concerned about any type of media push for vaccinating children. This shouldn't be a political issue and I wish it wasn't.

bae

11-7-21, 3:48pm

I know you're always looking for a reason to hate republicans, ...

Are there any Republicans left?

Alan

11-7-21, 3:49pm

Since when do conservatives see employment mandates as coercion ......They don't, conservatives are generally agnostic about private employers establishing terms of employment. The issue is government setting those terms of employment for employers under force of law.

Alan

11-7-21, 3:51pm

Are there any Republicans left?Sure there are, we just don't get much media attention so we're kinda invisible outside the ballot box.

bae

11-7-21, 4:06pm

Sure there are, we just don't get much media attention so we're kinda invisible outside the ballot box.

I used to be a Republican. Even participated in party activities, and served as a delegate.

However, over the past N years, here at least, the party moved far from the boring-middle-of-the-road Eisenhower-style Republicanism to something strange and wacky. Which, at least locally, has turned the party into a non-force. I'd say ~40% of the local Republicans were boring old-school moderates, 20% cultural Republicans, and 40% hard-line Trumpists(*), and the Trumpists have driven out all the others(**).

(*) By which I mean they don't seem to have much political philosophy other than "Trump good, edgelord behaviour good".

(**) And to be fair, our local Democrats have gone down the same path, and if you aren't a hardcore "Progressive", you are basically a class-traitor and need reeducation.

ApatheticNoMore

11-7-21, 4:07pm

They don't, conservatives are generally agnostic about private employers establishing terms of employment. The issue is government setting those terms of employment for employers.

From an employees perspective there is no difference whatsoever, it's legalese, whether it was an employer term of employment to be vaccinated or a government one. It's quibbling over distinctions without a difference.

However, vaccine mandates unlike many conditions for employment, have huge external social benefits, everyone is sick and tired of preventable diseases like this pandemic continuing forever. And also can't one just opt for regular covid testing.

Alan

11-7-21, 4:25pm

From an employees perspective there is no difference whatsoever....Sure there is, a potential employee can choose whether or not they'll work for a company with restrictive terms of employment, when the government mandates those restrictive terms of employment the employee's ability to choose is taken away.

JaneV2.0

11-7-21, 4:39pm

Eisenhower was the last decent Republican president, IMO. I used to vote regularly for moderate Republicans, but since there are few, if any, of those left, I'll be voting a straight Democratic ticket from now on out--even though I've been an Independent for decades. Most Democrats now seem to be the equivalent of yesterday's moderate Republicans. From what I know, they'd certainly be considered center-right in Europe.

I find the current crop of Republicans in turns scary, craven, and laughable. If they have any principles beyond greed, I haven't seen them.

JaneV2.0

11-7-21, 4:49pm

...
I'm not familiar with whatever tweet you saw but I can understand how a parent can and should be concerned about any type of media push for vaccinating children. This shouldn't be a political issue and I wish it wasn't.

I've long wondered why there are so many mandatory vaccinations for children (measles--really?) and figured they were just a Pharma cash cow, but COVID, being potentially life-threatening and highly contagious, seems a reasonable candidate for an additional mandate.

iris lilies

11-7-21, 5:03pm

I've long wondered why there are so many mandatory vaccinations for children (measles--really?) and figured they were just a Pharma cash cow, but COVID, being potentially life-threatening and highly contagious, seems a reasonable candidate for an additional mandate.

I wouldn’t say there are “mandatory “vaccinations for children. I would say that there are vaccine requirements set at the state level that vary by state for children in group Settings. Those requirements include public schools and may or may not include daycare and private schools. There are exemptions that include religious reasons and health reasons.

Those are quite a few caveats. So no, no across the board mandate.

Of course you are aware aren’t you that these vaccines are For “childhood diseases “because these diseases take out so many children who are vulnerable to them. That’s not the case for Covid. Covid likes old folks.Old fat people! Covid would love me, I am sure.

happystuff

11-7-21, 5:49pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm so glad to NOT be the parent of a young child during all this! Kudos and prayers to all the parents trying to figure out what-is-what and are faced with all these decisions for their children.

bae

11-7-21, 5:57pm

They don't, conservatives are generally agnostic about private employers establishing terms of employment. The issue is government setting those terms of employment for employers under force of law.

I sort of like many of the workplace safety regulations, and the various job-discrimination laws...

(Related, I'm just finishing up "Deep River", a fun book, and part of it involves the logging/fishing industry in the Pacific Northwest and its collision with the American labor movement, especially the IWW, in the ~WWI period.)

JaneV2.0

11-7-21, 6:50pm

I wouldn’t say there are “mandatory “vaccinations for children. I would say that there are vaccine requirements set at the state level that vary by state for children in group Settings. Those requirements include public schools and may or may not include daycare and private schools. There are exemptions that include religious reasons and health reasons.

Those are quite a few caveats. So no, no across the board mandate.

Of course you are aware aren’t you that these vaccines are For “childhood diseases “because these diseases take out so many children who are vulnerable to them. That’s not the case for Covid. Covid likes old folks.Old fat people! Covid would love me, I am sure.

The mortality rate for measles 1n 1952 (probably the year I had them)--all ages--was ~1%--less than the flu. At any rate, they're here to stay, and mostly a good thing.

catherine

11-7-21, 6:57pm

The current political climate has me doing a serious review of my own position regarding party choices. I'm a registered Democrat only because it enables me to vote in the primaries (at least it did in my former state), otherwise I'd be independent.

I'm interested in seeing what happens to both parties at this point, but I certainly don't feel any loyalty to either. I've always been interested in alternatives to the major parties, including anarchism (odd for a liberal Progressive to admit to but I'm open to radical ideas).

As for vaccines, I don't have a problem with childhood vaccines at all--measles comes bundled with mumps and rubella and it's no big deal, and of course who couldn't argue that it's a good thing polio and TB are a thing of the past.

ApatheticNoMore

11-7-21, 8:25pm

Sure there is, a potential employee can choose whether or not they'll work for a company with restrictive terms of employment, when the government mandates those restrictive terms of employment the employee's ability to choose is taken away.

so if most employers choose to do so, it would then amount to pretty much the same thing, it would be, well where are you going to go?

(really in this case you should stop fighting for something as stupid as avoiding a covid vaccine and take a jab and a job, but ... it was all about the right to be stupid right, yea so many things that could limit that, including most employers themselves demanding one get a vax)

JaneV2.0

11-7-21, 9:29pm

4060

Yppej

11-7-21, 10:02pm

so if most employers choose to do so, it would then amount to pretty much the same thing, it would be, well where are you going to go?

(really in this case you should stop fighting for something as stupid as avoiding a covid vaccine and take a jab and a job, but ... it was all about the right to be stupid right, yea so many things that could limit that, including most employers themselves demanding one get a vax)

My employer does not want to mandate it.

If I were an employer I would set up as many employee leasing companies as needed of fewer than 100 employees each to keep my staff during a time of labor shortages.

jp1

11-8-21, 8:16am

4060

And I bet there was no one around to save Young Teddy Cruz from the life threatening horror of getting vaccinated. It’s a miracle that he survived and is now here to protect the kids from evil socialism science.

LDAHL

11-8-21, 10:29am

I see those grouches at the Fifth Circuit have slapped a temporary stay on the President’s emergency vaccine mandate. Which won’t affect much, considering we’re still a couple months away from it going into effect.

gimmethesimplelife

11-11-21, 1:00pm

These days I just don't have the time to keep up with news/politics. I did hear something about Ted Cruz and Big Bird. All I can say is - that sounds funny....I will go.to youtube and google later to find out more. It's not a 3 AM tweet but yeah..... the sight of Ted Cruz railing against BIg Bird? Like Elvira Mistress of the Dark used to say.....just too macabre.

I hope Carly Fiorina sees this - maybe she should be grateful the Cruz/Fiorina ticket went nowhere - but it did produce bizarre optics of Fiorina's strange attempt to appear more human/relatable by single a little ditty about Cruz's daughters. Politics indeed makes for strange bedfellows. Rob

gimmethesimplelife

11-11-21, 8:46pm

Should have been singing a little ditty above. Rob

iris lilies

11-11-21, 8:55pm

The mortality rate for measles 1n 1952 (probably the year I had them)--all ages--was ~1%--less than the flu. At any rate, they're here to stay, and mostly a good thing.
Hmmm, so is the takeaway

1. Jane and Iris had measles
2. Didn’t hurt us and most all children who had measles
3. 1% died, too bad so sad (and we have no idea how many of these kids had co-morbidities, so thinning the herd and etc.)

But mortality rate for children and Covid disease is less than measles.

You are pretty much making Joe Rogan’s argument against vaccinating his own kids who have already had Covid anyway. And, Covid vaccines for children have not been tested out on the big population for decades as have measles vaccines.I won’t mention the heart damage study for boys from Covid vaccine since I do not know anything about it other than it exists.

ApatheticNoMore

11-11-21, 9:15pm

iris lilies

11-11-21, 10:03pm

The point of vaccinating kids is to protect the rest of society…n.
Well, I don’t know if it is THE point but it is certainly *A*point.

There are plenty of parents who are rushing to get their children vaccinated because they fear their children getting the disease. As I skip around the Internet, the many parents who talk about getting their children vaced speak of it as a relief that their children will not get the disease, they do not speak of it as them doing their duty and offering up their children to keep the old vulnerable people like me safe.

Of course there are plenty of people who do understand that it’s all for the best that the population at large is vaccinated. I just think that is their secondary reason for having their children vaccinated.

Yppej

11-12-21, 6:00am

The point of vaccinating kids is to protect the rest of society, including those for whom vaccines are not very effective, by reducing the number of people who can spread the virus. In other words one of the main arguments for ANY vaccination campaign (not just covid).

Except that the latest claim is you can still get and transmit the disease with a breakthrough infection. You won't get seriously ill or die, but as for protecting others, no dice. So therefore we must all wear masks forever in certain settings to 1) protect the anti-vaxxers from the consequences of their actions and 2) pretend like we are doing something substantial so politicians look good. After all, wearing a mask 20 minutes a week in the library will do the trick. It doesn't matter what I do the rest of the time.