Oakland Co, MI show trial

[iris lilies]

I listened to Oakland County’s prosecutor detail the charges against the school shooter’s parents in Michigan. They are charged on four counts of involuntary manslaughter.

When you listen to the disregard of the parents for their sons’s involvement in gun use, and hear the very strong action of the school in alerting these parents to the danger of their son—these charges are not too strong. Probably, legally, this is all she could do, the prosecutor I mean.


Here I am all for a big show trial that causes the parents as much pain as possible, as much financial hardship as possible. Don’t plead this one out.

Perhaps other facts will come to light later that tell their story in a more sympathetic way, but I’m going to be skeptical.

[LDAHL]

I suppose it differs by state, but is there a difference between manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide?

[bae]

I'll be curious to see what facts develop. The news coverage seems a bit breathless.

[pinkytoe]

I have always wondered why parents aren't held accountable when juveniles break the law. Period.

[iris lilies]

I have always wondered why parents aren't held accountable when juveniles break the law. Period.
You mean, holding parents accountable for things they dont do?

You mean, holding people accountable for committing crimes they don’t commit?

That seems to be not in the spirit of Western law.. I mean, in North Korea they hold generations accountable for something a 5th generation ancestor did. I don’t think that’s a good direction to go in.

[bae]

I have always wondered why parents aren't held accountable when juveniles break the law. Period.

You might want to look. In most states, parents have civil and criminal liability for their children's acts.

[bae]

That seems to be not in the spirit of Western law.. I mean, in North Korea they hold generations accountable for something a 5th generation ancestor did. I don’t think that’s a good direction to go in.


There's that whole "corruption of blood" clause in the Constitution even.

[Alan]

There's that whole "corruption of blood" clause in the Constitution even.
Yes, but that Civil War era clause dealt exclusively with treason and was limited to forfeiture of estates and I believe one generation of enforcement. It seems to be rather knee jerk to me even though it's not nearly as onerous as its English common law cousin.

[LDAHL]

I think there’s a difference between holding parents responsible for any action a minor child commits, and extreme negligence in allowing them access to weapons and ignoring obvious signs of mental disease.

I think the latter is legitimate because it focuses on the parents’ actions or inaction. The former blanket liability is not. I’ve seen some pretty decent people produce pretty depraved offspring, and vice versa. For the same reason, I don’t accept that one generation or race can be held responsible for the actions of their ancestors or even by non-ancestors who simply look like them.

[iris lilies]

I'll be curious to see what facts develop. The news coverage seems a bit breathless.
And now the parents are on the lam. All the media will love this, Following Bonnie and Clyde in Michigan, breathlessly as you say.


Maybe the parents are just on the down low for a moment while they gather their resources and get a really good attorney.

[bae]

And now the parents are on the lam. All the media will love this, Following Bonnie and Clyde in Michigan, breathlessly as you say.


Maybe the parents are just on the down low for a moment while they gather their resources and get a really good attorney.

Or worried their neighbors are going to lynch them.

Gracious, I am glad I did not move to Michigan ~4 years ago when that seemed a possibility.

[BikingLady]

It’s all so painfully sad. We have at last count 80 schools shut due to threats and fears.

[Teacher Terry]

As Ldahl mentioned it seems like the parents were negligent. If I have learned anything recently it’s that we rarely know all the relevant facts this early.

[LDAHL]

With the public so outraged, the DA must have been under a lot of pressure to throw out as many severe charges as possible. Even terrorism, which must be pretty broadly defined in Michigan.

[iris lilies]

With the public so outraged, the DA must have been under a lot of pressure to throw out as many severe charges as possible. Even terrorism, which must be pretty broadly defined in Michigan.
I listened to her press conference and I didn’t hear the charge of terrorism. Hmm, did I miss that? Will review.

But I suppose if the black dude in Waskesha is going to be charged with terrorism, the white high school dude in Michigan gets his equal and fair treatment, or something like that.

Speaking of, as Rich and Charlie and the gang pointed out this week, where is that Waukesha story now anyway? I am sorry that’s your territory. It doesn’t seem to be a concern of main stream media anymore because it did not fit their narrative.

edited to make sense,
Waukesha not Kenosha

[LDAHL]

I listened to her press conference and I didn’t hear the charge of terrorism. Hmm, did I miss that? Will review.

But I suppose if the black dude in Kenosha is going to be charged with terrorism, the white dude in Michigan gets his equal and fair treatment, or something like that.

Speaking of, as Rich and Charlie and the gang pointed out this week, where is that Kenosha story now anyway? I am sorry that’s your territory. It doesn’t seem to be a concern of main stream media anymore because it did not fit their narrative.

The parade attack was Waukesha, and the Rittenhouse thing was Kenosha. Not a great year for eastern Wisconsin.

I do agree with you and Charlie about a certain degree of selectivity in which cases the media chooses to highlight. The favored narratives are white guys (preferably cops) killing (or at least maiming) black guys, white kids shooting up high schools or any situation that can be twisted, spun or kneaded into white supremacy if you squint and look at it from just the right angle. The much more common and rising numbers of black people killing black people and white people killing white people at the retail level are of little interest.

Even a guy plowing through streets full of old ladies and little kids will be forgotten fairly soon. While sufficiently lurid, the facts of the case can’t be marshaled into a social justice or anti-gun story.

[LDAHL]

I see today that Darrell Brooks was found guilty of all 76 charges leveled against him related to his driving through the Waukesha Christmas parade, including six charges of intentional homicide. He had elected to defend himself, employing a series of unhinged courtroom antics.

At the time of the crime, he was out on $1,000 bond for charges related to attacking an ex-girlfriend with an SUV. Between that and the Kenosha rioting, this year’s WI election included a pronounced law and order tint.

[frugal-one]

Also ron johnson sending false electors, his stance on abortion (under NO conditions) telling woman they could leave the state if they didn’t like it. Law and order…by republicans is a joke.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/03/republicans-law-order-midterm-election-investigations-scandals

[LDAHL]

When his opponent is seen in political ads saying reducing the prison population is sexy, people tend to make invidious comparisons.

[frugal-one]

When johnson is seen saying the rioters of January 6th are “peaceful protesters” .. the notion of law and order by republicans is shown to be a lie. His promotion of false electors should have put him in prison for treason, as well.

The ad you are referring to above was propaganda by Putin. It is no surprise you would reference it. Also the attack ads darken the skin of his opponent…. now you tell me why republicans would do that?

[LDAHL]

The ad you are referring to above was propaganda by Putin. It is no surprise you would reference it. Also the attack ads darken the skin of his opponent…. now you tell me why republicans would do that?

It came from one of the half dozen interviews he gave to Russian State television, not some kind of deep fake operation. If he couldn’t foresee or care that they would use it for propaganda purposes, I would say that put him in the “useful idiot” category.

[iris lilies]

That’s good we can close that chapter on the Waukesha tragedy.

[iris lilies]

It came from one of the half dozen interviews he gave to Russian State television, not some kind of deep fake operation. If he couldn’t foresee or care that they would use it for propaganda purposes, I would say that put him in the “useful idiot” category.
Are Wisconsin politicians regularly giving interviews to the Russians? how strange

[frugal-one]

[QUOTE=LDAHL;416176]It came from one of the half dozen interviews he gave to Russian State television, not some kind of deep fake operation. If he couldn’t foresee or care that they would use it for propaganda purposes, I would say that put him in the “useful idiot” category.[/QUOTE

I did find an article that said the Milwaukee paper reported that he gave an interview to Russian tv. For sure, that was idiotic but STILL not as bad as sending fake electors to OVERTHROW our government. It is disgusting that Barnes and johnson are the best candidates our state has to offer. It is a matter of choosing the better of 2 evils. johnson’s anti-abortion remarks and a multitude of their issues invalidates him for me….notwithstanding he is a trump toady.

You didn’t answer my question about why republicans darkened his skin in their attack ads?

[LDAHL]

According to what I heard about it, it was one mailer that they were trying to turn into an issue. It doesn’t seem to have gotten much traction outside the far left bubble.

I will be happy to see the end of campaign propaganda in a couple of weeks. It seems to get nastier with every election.

[LDAHL]

That’s good we can close that chapter on the Waukesha tragedy.

He just got sentenced. About 700 years in prison and another 300 years of probation after that.

I don’t know if Milwaukee County will bother trying him for the outstanding charges there.

[Teacher Terry]

Glad that he got such a severe sentence. In regard to the other case IL mentioned with the parents ignoring the school’s warnings I really don’t know why anyone would do that. You would want your child to get help and to protect others.