The Return of Student Loans

[LDAHL]

I see the the suspension of federal student loan payments will expire in February. A couple of Squad troopers have, of course, bristled at the unfairness of asking people to repay money they borrowed. AOC complained about her $17K debt, and how she didn’t go to grad school because she feared she’d need to borrow more, which some fascist might make her repay. Rep Pressley referred to the requirement to honor one’s debts as “policy violence”.

Personally, I think that if someone freely undertakes an obligation, they should have the integrity to follow through. But I suppose in this era of victim politics it should surprise no one that some will view the deadbeat position as the moral high ground.

[Yppej]

Judging from past comments on these forums many think a person should be able to take a job paying above average wages and as long as it is in the public sector they should only have to pay pennies on the dollar of what they borrowed. So this mindset has been out there for a while. It's just getting a little more extreme now.

[Tradd]

They will complain about their student loans, yet did they do anything to try to lower the cost of college? Community college their first two years, and then a less expensive university for the remainder? The people I know in real life complaining about having to pay back their loans went to expensive schools they felt they HAD to attend.

[rosarugosa]

I don't have any quarrel with people making use of the current forgiveness programs. It seems no more reprehensible that deducting mortgage interest and property taxes from one's federal tax return, although these deductions favor those affluent enough to buy homes. However, I don't buy the idea of a blanket discharge of student loans. I did as Tradd described, went to CC for one year and then completed the remainder of my BS at a state university. It was very affordable and I paid for it working part-time while living in my parents' home.

[Yppej]

I lived at home and worked up to 7 part-time jobs at once and also earned scholarships. Now since then tuition has risen, not everyone has parents to live with, or a car to commute to school if there is no mass transit, or the ability to juggle that many things especially if they have been out of school for a while and are not used to academic rigor. So I get that the experience of others might involve the need for some loans.

That being said someone saying I kept going for degree after degree, thus being used to the academic groove, but even though the schools I attended weren't that rigorous I never worked part-time to help cover my costs because I was too busy chasing tail, so you and other taxpayers should pick up a big chunk of my bill while I jet around the world - is reprehensible.

[catherine]

I don't have any quarrel with people making use of the current forgiveness programs. It seems no more reprehensible that deducting mortgage interest and property taxes from one's federal tax return, although these deductions favor those affluent enough to buy homes.

Completely agree. Some institutions offer forgiveness programs as a perk for low-paying jobs and the benefit to the institution is a better talent pool and low turnover.

I also agree with LDAHL that if you sign a promissory note, that means you are supposed to pay it back. Nobody puts a gun to your head to choose the college you choose. Two of my kids did what rosa did: 2 years of community college and transfer to 4-year state school. If I had had my wits about me, I would have "encouraged" my daughter to do the same.

I have always believed, however, that college tuition should be 100% tax deductible.

ETA, student loan terms are extoritionary, however, so I also believe in an overhaul of Sallie Mae.

[iris lilies]

College tuition costs have gone up, that’s for sure, I won’t argue that, BUT:

Some years ago here the poster redfox kept moaning about her loans (taken out late in life) for her graduate degree. It was a masters degree.

To compare her situation, I figured the CURRENT costs of my own masters degree. I figured out how much it would cost to get that degree TODAY and—it was about $25,000. I’m pretty sure that included room and board at the state University, but did not include any incidental costs or car maintenance because that’s how I went to graduate school —was in a dorm in a stripped down life with no car. I sold plasma for beer and cigarette money.

The seems like a reasonable cost to me for a degree that propelled me into the professional world.

I was lucky because my parents paid for that degree. I had paid for some of my undergraduate degree. But because I was so debt adverse, if I had taken out a loan, I know I would’ve been able to pay it off in five years. Some months I saved half my salary.

[happystuff]

I also agree with the above posts, but also feel that if the opportunity arose for my mortgage, car loan, cc debt, or the like to be wiped clean, I would jump on it! So I can't blame anyone with a student loan not doing the same thing should the opportunity arise.

I see how my children are struggling/have struggled. The sad part is when all the money is spent on a college education and the resulting well-paying job/career does not materialize - for whatever reasons.

There are definitely many sides to this issues.

[iris lilies]

I also agree with the above posts, but also feel that if the opportunity arose for my mortgage, car loan, cc debt, or the like to be wiped clean, I would jump on it! So I can't blame anyone with a student loan not doing the same thing should the opportunity arise.

I see how my children are struggling/have struggled. The sad part is when all the money is spent on a college education and the resulting well-paying job/career does not materialize - for whatever reasons.

There are definitely many sides to this issues.

I’m not going to blame anyone for taking advantage of whatever government loophole is provided to us. That would include rich people who set up their income to dodge taxation perfectly legally. Whatever programs the government creates are the programs it creates, and they are morally neutral.

[LDAHL]

ETA, student loan terms are extoritionary, however, so I also believe in an overhaul of Sallie Mae.

How “extortionate”? I wasn’t aware the rates are all that high, and you can deduct the interest above the line.

[LDAHL]

Looks like the President will be extending the suspending for another few months.

I wonder what Monroe or Madison would have said if told someday the President would have the power to override loan contracts at a whim?

[iris lilies]

Looks like the President will be extending the suspending for another few months.

I wonder what Monroe or Madison would have said if told someday the President would have the power to override loan contracts at a whim?
Also, overriding property rights as in landlording. Cant kick out tenants.

I think we know what Monroe or Madison would’ve said. Something along the lines of “come on people, we didn’t give that power to the Prez. Show some damn backbone and cut that crap out. “

[Alan]

Also, overriding property rights as in landlording. Cant kick out tenants.

I think we know what Monroe or Madison would’ve said. Something along the lines of “come on people, we didn’t give that power to the Prez. Show some damn backbone and cut that crap out. “
Which makes Benjamin Franklin's comment even more salient when he was asked what type of government the Constitutional Convention had formed, he said "A Republic, if you can keep it!" He must have foreseen a modern version of the United States.

[jp1]

Although I doubt Franklin would have foreseen the senate creating rules to require a super majority to pass every piece of legislation or of a senate that would refuse to consider a judicial nomination for consideration because ‘politics’.

[Alan]

Although I doubt Franklin would have foreseen the senate creating rules to require a super majority to pass every piece of legislation or of a senate that would refuse to consider a judicial nomination for consideration because ‘politics’.
He also wouldn't have foreseen the Senate reducing its effectiveness by having its members be directly elected by constituents already represented by the House. Forcing them to pander to individuals for votes destroyed the chamber's unique dynamic and shifted it from its duty to represent the individual states to a slightly more elite counterpart to the House of Representatives. I think he'd be appalled by the 17th Amendment and those who would turn this once proud Republic into a direct Democracy.

[pinkytoe]

It's fair to say though that many students had zero financial literacy when they took out these loans and were sometimes force fed by student financial aid offices. And the world told them they needed a college degree to succeed in life. Mixed bag...

[LDAHL]

Although I doubt Franklin would have foreseen the senate creating rules to require a super majority to pass every piece of legislation or of a senate that would refuse to consider a judicial nomination for consideration because ‘politics’.

Our system has a lot of anti-majoritarian features designed to protect against transitory hysteria or demagoguery. The Senate, the Electoral College, the Bill of Rights, judicial review, etc. are all aimed at slowing down passing fads and the sometimes tyrannical behavior of the majority. I think that is by and large a good thing.

[Yppej]

From The Atlantic:

"Only 13 percent of Americans carry any federal student debt in the first place, and those who carry the most are also among those likely to earn the most in the future.

The issue offers little political benefit to Biden. As Demsas reported, the percentage of Americans who rate student debt as a top concern is too small for pollsters even to measure. But if carried out, student-debt relief could bring large downside risk because it so obviously involves a transfer of wealth from average-income Americans to the most energized, but also more advantaged, parts of the Democratic coalition."

And "It’s a classic case of opting for strong claimants over strong claims."

[ApatheticNoMore]

Yea the assumption is it's for political benefit and maybe it would benefit Biden, but maybe those debts just can't be paid (not by every single individual but it's aggregate debt that matters here). I mean maybe there are economic reasons they keep delaying repayment. Maybe somewhat like all the subprime mortgages at one point. Now one other option would be let people write them off in bankruptcy of course.

It's like certain areas have a rent freeze due to the pandemic. So shouldn't that rent freeze end, and is it really about the pandemic anymore? There is still covid, I'm not going to spew garbage that there is no covid, but ultimately that's not the main reasons rents are frozen probably, it's more probably just that rents at increasing levels can not be paid without causing a large spike in homelessness, and the homelessness crisis is already overwhelming. It's an economic problem the current system does not seem able to deal with, even though everyone knows indefinite rent freezes aren't likely on the table either. But people with student loans may have some more economic leeway than renters on the edge. It's just possible they are trying to solve an economic problem of what to do with unpayable debt than just the political problem of Biden's reelection though of course I'd expect him to care about the latter.

[iris lilies]

Now there’s some sort of DeSantis controversy about something he said. He was speaking of student loans and said that 60% of student loans are held by people who have advanced degrees.

I don’t know the context of his comment but I’m assuming he’s making a point that they should be pulling in a pretty good salary.


But the controversy comes in picking apart his words, and apparently the real facts are that 56% of student loans are held by households that have graduate degrees.


Wow big difference in the two facts. NOT. I’m giving DeSantis the point on this one.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Are those student loans even the relevant ones? I mean all Biden is talking about is government held student loans as I understand it. But many people have privately held student loans which will not be forgiven. They can't do that with the stroke of a pen is my understanding, I mean sure Congress could do many things with the power of the purse and all, but they aren't. I wonder how many of those advanced degree loans aren't even government loans to begin with. My partner has to this day private student loans which have monthly payments, so I've asked him: if the student loan forgiveness thing passes does it help with your student loans? Nope. Does nothing.

[JaneV2.0]

I don't have an opinion on forgiving college loans per se, but the predatory lending practices and high interest rates that accompany them should be dealt with. And, IMO, state 2- and 4-year state colleges should be free or reasonable, with lots of scholarships available.

[Yppej]

I agree Jane that public education should be affordable. My solution would be wage and price controls since the industry has not policed itself. They will whine but academics won't leave to pursue other jobs. Instead like always they'll fight for tenure so they can stay forever.