Medical Tests

[Teacher Terry]

Since this forum has a older crowd I am wondering if you take every routine test your doctor recommends or if you pick and choose. I read the book Being Mortal written by a doctor and it was excellent. My doctor wants me to take a bone density test but the last one showed osteopenia 13 years ago and I have no intention of ever taking a drug for it so I decided it’s pointless to take the test. I have been doing mammograms every 18 months and may switch to 2 years. Canada doesn’t do them after age 70. I am having my last colonoscopy in March. My siblings all much older still get them.

My mom had breast cancer stage one at 78 but her doctor left her on hormones for 30 years and my doctor said that’s why she got cancer. Then she had stage one colon cancer at 84 and suffice it to say that she would have been better off if it wasn’t found. I am getting blood work yearly because I think it can identify potential problems in advance. So what is everyone doing?

[Yppej]

I do minimal testing and after the pandemic I have developed a deep distrust of the American medical establishment so I will probably getting even fewer screenings. However, I am going to the dentist next month.

[happystuff]

I had years where I didn't do anything. About two years ago, I finally got all the normal/regular checkups that are always suggested (mammogram, dexascan, colonoscopy, etc). I have been diagnosed with osteoporosis and do take the weekly medication. Working full-time at a fairly physical job, my thinking is to reduce as much risk to broken bones or the like as possible. I even got my first ever flu shot two years ago and also got one this year. Don't know how I'll proceed in the coming months/years. Time will tell. :)

[iris lilies]

As all know I didn’t go to the doctor for 15+ years. Anyway, my now doctor approaches her testing requests gingerly with me because she said early on “I’ve dealt with people like you and I know that I can’t push too hard. “

And I like that. So yeah she’s said I should take a bone density test. I mumbled something about why ? I’m not gonna take drugs for it she said well I’d like to know where we’re starting regardless. The docs practice evidence-based treatment and they like to know that stuff. So I —theoretically —think it’s OK to take these tests but the next step, treatment and drugs, are exactly that – a step you don’t have to take.

all of that said – I still haven’t had the test. My mom side of family has severe osteoporosis. But my bones are heavier than hers and I am heavier, so I practice weight-bearing exercises every time I’m on my feet. Hah. My doctor agree that is kind of a plus.

But yeah when I started going to her, I had the usual tests – mammogram, colonoscopy, and a kidney scan when I mentioned kidney disease in my family. I haven’t had any test in the past two years because of Covid, I get in there and get out quickly so that she continues to renew blood pressure medicine.

[iris lilies]

Since this forum has a older crowd I am wondering if you take every routine test your doctor recommends or if you pick and choose. I read the book Being Mortal written by a doctor and it was excellent. My doctor wants me to take a bone density test but the last one showed osteopenia 13 years ago and I have no intention of ever taking a drug for it so I decided it’s pointless to take the test. I have been doing mammograms every 18 months and may switch to 2 years. Canada doesn’t do them after age 70. I am having my last colonoscopy in March. My siblings all much older still get them.

My mom had breast cancer stage one at 78 but her doctor left her on hormones for 30 years and my doctor said that’s why she got cancer. Then she had stage one colon cancer at 84 and suffice it to say that she would have been better off if it wasn’t found. I am getting blood work yearly because I think it can identify potential problems in advance. So what is everyone doing?
Bloodwork is fine I got no problem with that.


My mother was on those stupid hormones, just an example of how the medical community pivots over a single generation. I remember her staring at me seriously and saying now promise me you will take hormones because blah blah blah, some reason I can’t remember. Yeah whatever mom. At that time of my life menopause was so far away from my mind that I just didn’t pay attention. Now isn’t it ironic that that is not generally prescribed? What a bunch of bullshit it all is. Now Jane can chime in about the prevelance of statin drugs.

[iris lilies]

I had years where I didn't do anything. About two years ago, I finally got all the normal/regular checkups that are always suggested (mammogram, dexascan, colonoscopy, etc). I have been diagnosed with osteoporosis and do take the weekly medication. Working full-time at a fairly physical job, my thinking is to reduce as much risk to broken bones or the like as possible. I even got my first ever flu shot two years ago and also got one this year. Don't know how I'll proceed in the coming months/years. Time will tell. :)

do you have to lie down with that bone building drug? My mother took it 20 years ago, and it was one that you took it and then you lay down for what half an hour or an hour? Seems so odd.

[Teacher Terry]

Your mom liked hormones because they keep your skin soft and young looking.

[catherine]

I'm like happystuff and iris lilies. I rarely go to the doctor. However, I did get a physical last year from our local physician's assistant. DH goes to the same PA.

So, DH goes and comes back with sheafs of prescriptions for all kinds of referrals to all kinds of doctors. He wants a Completel Blood Count--he gets it. He wants a trip to the audiologist--he gets it. He wants a sleep study--he gets it.

OTOH, the PA is very, very chintzy about giving me referrals for what I want. She did send me to an ophthalmologist to confirm my ocular migraines to make sure it wasn't burgeoning blood vessel. And she did send me to get a bone density test. I've had osteopenia for years, and osteoporosis in my lumbar spine. I held off on medications for a decade, but I'm thinking of going for it now. I have a family history of osteoporosis, and kyphosis is unattractive and painful, so I really don't want to find myself there. I've done years and years of market research on bisphosphonates, and while I'd rather not take them, I don't think they are harmful. Side effects are pretty rare.

But my concern is my heart. I don't have a lot of knowledge about my heart, and my Smartwatch tells me I don't have AFib, but I would love to make sure there is nothing wrong there because my heart rate variability is very low. However, my PA won't refer me.

Also, she doesn't give me routine blood tests. I'll press her again this year.

But aside from those things, I certainly don't sign up for everything.

[Teacher Terry]

I have to see my doctor yearly so she will renew my prescriptions. Catherine, I think your doctor is doing you a disservice as blood work should be yearly at our age and the request in regards to your heart is reasonable. I don’t need a referral for anything.

[iris lilies]

Yeah, I have friends who want to know stuff so they do lots of testing. I have one friend who took the DNA test for family health background and he’s not adopted. He knows his family. I’m not sure what that would reveal if you have a pretty good handle on your parents’ diseases and the diseases of their parents. What good is that?

I had gout exactly one year ago. I’ve not had a problem since. My same friend takes medication for gout. Of course his is probably much more severe, but why would I take medication when this rears its head so seldom?

I have hearing loss. My cousin asked me “have you been to an audiologist?” I told him no why should I. The audiologist will reveal I have hearing loss. Big surprise.

I have no problem wearing a hearing aid if it’s necessary, I just haven’t determined that it is necessary yet because I’m not out there in the working world and I don’t really have to hear people. Of course now that everyone is wearing masks it makes it doubly hard for those of us with hearing loss. I hate masking for this reason.

[JaneV2.0]

"Now Jane can chime in about the prevelance of statin drugs." “I’ve dealt with people like you and I know that I can’t push too hard. “ Hahaha!

Doctor? What doctor? I saw one around the time I retired, some 27 years ago. I've had a few issues that cleared up, and a couple that haven't--like tinnitus and lameness. I'm not worried about osteoporosis, and like many of you, I wouldn't take the drugs anyway. I mentioned the Barbara Ehrenreich quote: "I'm old enough to die."

[iris lilies]

Your mom liked hormones because they keep your skin soft and young looking.

Yes that’s probably it. I distinctly remember the six month period when my skin sagged. It went from youthful to old lady. That was pretty dramatic. But it was a long time ago.

[sweetana3]

I will take a simple blood panel for basics. Got really mad at doctor for slipping in a Vit D test which per Medicare was not medically necessary (due to her coding). Now we are watching all the tests.

Note: She was pushing a sleep study when I have no issues with sleep. She also wanted hubby to get one and thought the CPAP might be good. He got a Oura device that measures his sleep and it is good and much better diagnostically because it is over time than a sleep study which is one disrupted night.

[pinkytoe]

I utilize a risk vs benefit thought process for anything medical. I think there is also a medical term which I can't recall now showing the actual benefit in percentages of various procedures. I had some odd symptoms a few years back and had several invasive tests ordered from three different specialists trying to figure it out. Nothing showed up. I am overdue for all the recommended old people tests and am not in any hurry to have them. Not bothering with the bone, boob or bowel one.

[happystuff]

do you have to lie down with that bone building drug? My mother took it 20 years ago, and it was one that you took it and then you lay down for what half an hour or an hour? Seems so odd.

Exactly the opposite! Taken on an empty stomach with 8 ounces of water and must sit or stand upright for 30 minutes before eating/drinking anything else.

[iris lilies]

Exactly the opposite! Taken on an empty stomach with 8 ounces of water and must sit or stand upright for 30 minutes before eating/drinking anything else.
Happystuff, I probably remember that incorrectly. I knew there was some directive about laying down! so it was “ don’t lay down.”

Please do not come to me for medical advice. Ha.

[happystuff]

Happystuff, I probably remember that incorrectly. I knew there was some directive about laying down! so it was “ don’t lay down.”

Please do not come to me for medical advice. Ha.

LOL. Noted.

[BikingLady]

Mammogram yearly, colonoscopy 10 year(one in two weeks), usual blood work, bone density scan 2 years, pap yearly though read they are 3-5 now so I am questioning next visit.

[JaneV2.0]

I utilize a risk vs benefit thought process for anything medical. I think there is also a medical term which I can't recall now showing the actual benefit in percentages of various procedures. I had some odd symptoms a few years back and had several invasive tests ordered from three different specialists trying to figure it out. Nothing showed up. I am overdue for all the recommended old people tests and am not in any hurry to have them. Not bothering with the bone, boob or bowel one.

"Number needed to treat" is one measure.

[jp1]

I'm not quite to the age where they want to do everything. So far the only truly cautionary thing that's been suggested (and done) was a colonoscopy at 50. And I will need to do another next year when I turn 55. Other than that and regular blood workups every few years (mainly keeping an eye on A1C since my mom's side has a very strong tendency towards diabetes.) and my visit to the cardiologist 18 months ago when my blood pressure went wonky which resulted in an ultrasound and a home sleep study. But I was ok with those since clearly something was wrong. Ultimately it was nothing other than needing a tweak of the BP meds but I was still glad to have confirmation that my heart is in good shape, and an ultrasound is so non-invasive that it wasn't a big deal.

[bae]

I am generally pretty healthy and rarely sick, except for injuries.

My work also provides me full bloodwork, EKGs, stress tests, vision testing, hearing testing, pulmonary function testing, and a bunch of other well-care exams/services multiple times a year. (By "provides" I mean "requires and provides").

This last year, due to changes in local healthcare, I retained the services of a super terrific doctor who has an independent concierge practice. My thought was, as I am entering perhaps the next stage of aging, to do a full tune up and detect early anything that might be troublesome. And to get a solid set of baseline information to refer to. This has involved a fair bit of testing, but it wasn't random, and was after detailed discussion with my doc. The project so far did detect some eye problems that would be quite troubling later on, and that has been dealt with already, yay team.

I think focusing on well-care and getting baseline information handy is time well spent, rather than waiting for things to break :-)

[Teacher Terry]

It’s a fine line between doing routine tests so you don’t die of something curable versus treating something that never would have caused problems. Doctors aren’t good at the wait and see approach and some of it may be to fears of malpractice.

[JaneV2.0]

I'm like happystuff and iris lilies. I rarely go to the doctor. However, I did get a physical last year from our local physician's assistant. DH goes to the same PA. ...

She did send me to an ophthalmologist to confirm my ocular migraines to make sure it wasn't burgeoning blood vessel. ...

But aside from those things, I certainly don't sign up for everything.

Burgeoning blood vessel, eh? I've had ocular migraines from time to time (ah, the many delights menopause brings)--though not for ages.

[BikingLady]

"Now Jane can chime in about the prevelance of statin drugs." “I’ve dealt with people like you and I know that I can’t push too hard. “ Hahaha!

Doctor? What doctor? I saw one around the time I retired, some 27 years ago. I've had a few issues that cleared up, and a couple that haven't--like tinnitus and lameness. I'm not worried about osteoporosis, and like many of you, I wouldn't take the drugs anyway. I mentioned the Barbara Ehrenreich quote: "I'm old enough to die."

Just curious if you don’t mind, did I understand you would not have a mammogram? If so why not? I have two friends that will not, one had valid reasons, one was scared. Mom had BC and that was how it was found, so I get mine. I had a low bone density a few years ago probably due to my 1970’s era of thin is in and starving myself. I declined any drugs for it and went to a specialist who agreed, but I do get tested every 2 years incase I should feel I need to change my mind.

[catherine]

Burgeoning blood vessel, eh? I've had ocular migraines from time to time (ah, the many delights menopause brings)--though not for ages.

I've had them for decades (the first one I had was while teaching Sunday school in the 90s)--but they are rare, which always made them scary--my particular symptoms are no headache, but prisms in my field of vision and aphasia. I was happy to eventually Dr. Google my own diagnosis of a simple ocular migraine, and an MRI and my ophthalmologist confirmed my diagnosis. Now I just take a couple of aspirin and lie down for a half hour when they come on--which again, thankfully, is very rare. Maybe 2 a year, if that.

[rosarugosa]

I am pretty compliant with the recommended screenings, especially given my smoking history.
Funny enough, since it's the most unpleasant test, but I would never consider skipping the colonoscopies. Colon cancer is so slow-growing, and they can actually remove the mushrooms that would have turned cancerous during the test itself, so I always thought it was well worth the unpleasantness.

[iris lilies]

I am pretty compliant with the recommended screenings, especially given my smoking history.
Funny enough, since it's the most unpleasant test, but I would never consider skipping the colonoscopies. Colon cancer is so slow-growing, and they can actually remove the mushrooms that would have turned cancerous during the test itself, so I always thought it was well worth the unpleasantness.

Please repeat this in 3-4 years when I am supposed to have another colonoscopy. As everyone knows, the procedure itself is no impact. The preparation is just awful, at least the last glass of it.

[rosarugosa]

Please repeat this in 3-4 years when I am supposed to have another colonoscopy. As everyone knows, the procedure itself is no impact. The preparation is just awful, at least the last glass of it.

I will try to remember, lol.
Next time, I will insist on the prep that involves two little bottles of yuck, rather than the enormous jug of horribleness that is almost as big as I am.

[iris lilies]

I will try to remember, lol.
Next time, I will insist on the prep that involves two little bottles of yuck, rather than the enormous jug of horribleness that is almost as big as I am.
I believe I had the two little bottles of yuck. But DH prefers the earlier treatment. Don’t ask me why I guess it’s because it just happened faster.

[happystuff]

I will try to remember, lol.
Next time, I will insist on the prep that involves two little bottles of yuck, rather than the enormous jug of horribleness that is almost as big as I am.

I also had the two little bottles of yuck last year for my first colonoscopy. Actually, except for the constant bathroom running and no eating, I found it doable.

[JaneV2.0]

Just curious if you don’t mind, did I understand you would not have a mammogram? If so why not? I have two friends that will not, one had valid reasons, one was scared. Mom had BC and that was how it was found, so I get mine. I had a low bone density a few years ago probably due to my 1970’s era of thin is in and starving myself. I declined any drugs for it and went to a specialist who agreed, but I do get tested every 2 years incase I should feel I need to change my mind.

At this point, it's moot. There's no history of it in my family, and if I have it, it's slow growing. I'm skeptical that all the mangling and radiation is worth it. I'm skeptical that constant tests are productive, except for the money they bring in (and the anxiety they produce). The book The Last Well Person by NM Hadler resonated with me. Most of my relatives lived acceptably long lives without a lot of medical intervention, and I aspire to that

[nswef]

I had a colonoscopy in 2016 an they wanted me to come back in 2019. I skipped it until this year- scheduled in Jan. but changed it to April- so 6 years. It will be my last as I am 73 and don't plan to do it again. My GP is very proactive, but does listen to me. she said a mammogram until I can't be bothered every year, so I do that. Blood work, with Vit. D and B12. I go once a year for refills. My cholesterol was up a bit and she suggested lecithin (I found sunflower is very palatable), apples, walnuts and I cut back my egg and cheese consumption. I do take Boniva once a month for the osteoperosis . I was not happy about it, but after the hip break I think it's a good idea. Like IL I carry enough weight to have strong bones...it's the spine that's not so thick. GP said keep walking, carrying that heavy head around is good for the neck and spine bones!!! I also take elderberry elixir every day, I'm convinced it works for my immune system. Even my husband who is not generally willing to take anything, makes sure he takes it every day! He also takes allipurinol for gout as he had sporadic incidents that damaged his feet. Apparently each bout does some damage to the joints so after he learned that, after his 3rd bout in 3 or 4 years, he started with the daily pill.

[Teacher Terry]

A doctor told my mil that all polyps turn into cancer. I was curious and it turns out only 40% do. My instructions for the colonoscopy said a clear liquid diet for 2 days. That’s ridiculous and I plan to do what I did the other 2 times and that’s for one day. The biggest reason I am not a fan is because of the danger of having your colon perforated which kills people generally. But with my mom having colon cancer at 84 and both siblings having lots of polyps I decided to have one last one.

[dado potato]

In 2021 there was a significant global rise in the rate of syphilis. I understand that the medical test involves a blood draw. (In some counties in WA state I understand that the Health Department gives $10 gift cards to people who come in and get tested.)

The assumption is that sexually active individuals may carry the syphilis bacteria, but "have no clue".





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[Yppej]

In 2021 there was a significant global rise in the rate of syphilis. I understand that the medical test involves a blood draw. (In some counties in WA state I understand that the Health Department gives $10 gift cards to people who come in and get tested.)

The assumption is that sexually active individuals may carry the syphilis bacteria, but "have no clue".





0

Maybe we should force all college students to test weekly for syphilis or be expelled. We should order them to wear condoms even if they test negative because there could be a condom breakthrough.

If people don't follow the syphilis protocols (you could catch them if a pregnancy results) you could fire them from their jobs, force them to stay indoors, take away custody of their children, deny them needed operations, fine them, and ban them from social media if they complain.

This would be a great way to conquer syphilis wouldn't it?

[iris lilies]

Jeppy….about syphillis…

hahaha. Ok!

[jp1]

Maybe we should force all college students to test weekly for syphilis or be expelled. We should order them to wear condoms even if they test negative because there could be a condom breakthrough.

If people don't follow the syphilis protocols (you could catch them if a pregnancy results) you could fire them from their jobs, force them to stay indoors, take away custody of their children, deny them needed operations, fine them, and ban them from social media if they complain.

This would be a great way to conquer syphilis wouldn't it?

Or straight people could do like gay men have been doing for practically forever and actually give a crap about each other. Routine conversation between two dudes about to have sex*:

male 1: You negative?
male 2: Yeah. Tested last month? You?
male 1: same. but I still play safe. What you into?


*Admittedly I haven't had to have this conversation in quite a long time. I assume now it's:

male 1: you on prep?
male 2: yep? You?
male 1: yep. what you into?

[Yppej]

Or straight people could do like gay men have been doing for practically forever and actually give a crap about each other. Routine conversation between two dudes about to have sex*:

male 1: You negative?
male 2: Yeah. Tested last month? You?
male 1: same. but I still play safe. What you into?


*Admittedly I haven't had to have this conversation in quite a long time. I assume now it's:

male 1: you on prep?
male 2: yep? You?
male 1: yep. what you into?

You could test negative yesterday and catch covid today. You could test negative in the morning and catch it in the afternoon.

It is pretty routine now to have conversations like:

How have you been?

Oh, I had covid.

Were you sick?

Just some sniffles. I used the time to clean out the basement.


I have lost track of how many people I know, or family members of theirs, have had covid - definitely in the hundreds. I doubt there is a family in my state where at least one family member has not had it and known - with I am sure many more undiagnosed because they didn't get tested.

My analogy is you have a sand castle on the beach (your body). You build it up from the tide line and put a nice sand moat around it (masks). Along comes a hurricane (omicron). How safe is your sand castle now?

[JaneV2.0]

Colonoscopies--except in high-risk cases--should be a thing of the past, thanks to Cologuard:
https://assetbuilder.com/knowledge-center/articles/is-it-the-end-of-the-diagnostic-colonoscopy
There's no need to risk bowel perforation.

[pinkytoe]

At one of my last visits to a specialist, he excitedly told me (I don't know why) that he was creating a company that would do full body scans and follow-ups for business executives. No doubt if you go looking, you will find something. I do have a relative who had some damage from a colonoscopy though I don't know the particulars.

[iris lilies]

Colonoscopies--except in high-risk cases--should be a thing of the past, thanks to Cologuard:
https://assetbuilder.com/knowledge-center/articles/is-it-the-end-of-the-diagnostic-colonoscopy
There's no need to risk bowel perforation.

No, all that does is give a hint of problems that have to be more fully explored in a colonoscopy. Surprise.

[sweetana3]

But if it is negative, hooray.

Note; I have no history of cancers on either side of my family. Lifespans high 80s to 100 across the board. I will eventually die of something.

[Teacher Terry]

People with hemorrhoids can’t use colorguard because they bleed sometimes and it looks like cancer. Plus they can’t detect polyps.

[JaneV2.0]

No, all that does is give a hint of problems that have to be more fully explored in a colonoscopy. Surprise.

The article says there's only 3% difference in accuracy between the two tests.

[Yppej]

My doctor told me if you have ever had polyps then Cologuard will detect problems every time and a colonoscopy will still be required.

[Simplemind]

I have been putting off my colonoscopy for the past two years. They have never found anything and the prep just does me in.

[early morning]

My FIL died from colon cancer. DH has had quite a few polyps removed, several were abnormal but not considered cancer at that point. So I make sure I nag him to be tested as recommended. that said, I am more lackadaisical for myself, I hate the prep, have had no polyps, and my family has no cancer of that sort (or much of any, really). I do get a mamo every year, they are annoying but I have a pretty high pain threshold so I don't find them actually painful. They are free, and for me, they seem worth it. I am considering requesting a chest xray soon, I've had a nagging cough for a couple months, not a deep cough but aggravating. Since my best friend/twin cousin died of lung cancer 2 yrs ago after a lifetime of never smoking, I'm a little more concerned. And I went to a dermatologist finally, at DDs nagging. I did not see a reason to go. However, they found a melanoma on my face. It didn't look dangerous to me, just a small spot of red, but the oncologist assured me it could be lethal. It's gone now, but I'll be seeing the dermatologist frequently. Which only proves that testing is useful if they find something, lol.

[Yppej]

I had pre-cancerous cervical changes discovered with a pap smear in my thirties and was told I needed a LEEP procedure to remove part of my cervix. Recently I read that this is no longer done because these types of changes usually go away on their own.

It does make me wonder how many other procedures really need to be done.

[jp1]

The other problem with using cool guard is that in most cases if it tells you to get a follow up colonoscopy it is no longer considered preventive and this fully covered by insurance. Now it is diagnostic and subject to the standard copays/coinsirance./deductibles.

[rosarugosa]

The other problem with using cool guard is that in most cases if it tells you to get a follow up colonoscopy it is no longer considered preventive and this fully covered by insurance. Now it is diagnostic and subject to the standard copays/coinsirance./deductibles.

Oh interesting - never would have thought of that!

[BikingLady]

The other problem with using cool guard is that in most cases if it tells you to get a follow up colonoscopy it is no longer considered preventive and this fully covered by insurance. Now it is diagnostic and subject to the standard copays/coinsirance./deductibles.

Having colonoscopy next week, I check also on the other options available. I was advised the same.

[rosarugosa]

I do think someday they will come up with a better way to screen for colon cancer, and the people of the future will incredulously say to the old timers, "They made you do WHAT?"

[Tybee]

DH is having an echocardiogram today. He had to dig out of a snowstorm to get there, and I told him to drink a cup of coffee, so they would have an accurate picture. He didn't want to have the coffee because he was afraid he'd do badly on the test. But they ordered the test because he is doing badly, so I'm saying, just do what you normally do, and see what happens on the test.

[BikingLady]

Please repeat this in 3-4 years when I am supposed to have another colonoscopy. As everyone knows, the procedure itself is no impact. The preparation is just awful, at least the last glass of it.

I had my lovely colonoscopy today. 60 now, first was at 50. I must be older as the prep was very difficult to choke down, yes last bottle at 8pm of magnesium citrate was really difficult, I told myself must must drink it. Then today I questioned why I was doing this?? Diverticulosis was the only issue. I assume one in 10 years happens, I will debate on if I choose the testing, I believe the other options will be better for me.

[pinkytoe]

I do think someday they will come up with a better way to screen for colon cancer
There is a new test that is a colon scan available in some larger markets but it doesn't appear to be covered under insurance - yet.
I finally went to a gastro doc yesterday for on again - off again abdominal issue. However, he said it could be this or that (something called SIBO) and that a course of antibiotics was worth a try. However, he did not test for that condition which makes me wonder about the indiscriminate use of antibiotics when they are problematic for the gut in the first place. Doctors are always so quick to push pills IMO and often tests too.

[JaneV2.0]

The only time I've ever had digestive problems was after a course of one of the quinolones. I hope my biome eventually recovered...