View Full Version : Russia/Ukraine?
WWIII?
Financial apocalypse? (Judging from my accounts, already in motion...)
Nothing to concern ourselves with?
Another GOP/Democrat arena-of-death?
The Rise Of The Oligarchs?
...?
ToomuchStuff
2-23-22, 5:06pm
Since they aren't a Nato country, not the start of WWIII. I expect we will let them fall, then do more "sanctions", instead of admitting them to Nato and backing that commitment.
Sounds so much like Putin is wanting to reform the Warsaw pact, by invading former controlled countries. If they try to invade one that was accepted into Nato, then maybe WWIII.
Still a storm of fecal matter.
I think an aging tyrant is anxious to cement his legacy. It’s a matter of concern if you think freedom is important, or that the neighbors should worry about predatory powers on their doorstep.
I don’t think economic sanctions or sternly worded statements will make much difference against the Russian mindset. I think putting significant numbers of javelin and nlaw missiles into the hands of a sufficiently bloody-minded population will, given enough time and misery and logistical support.
When Stalin died in 1953, the New York Times published an obituary that said “But those who survived the purges hailed Stalin as a supreme genius”. I don’t think that much has changed since then. I do think China is watching the proceedings with interest.
Teacher Terry
2-24-22, 12:15am
I feel sorry for the people in Ukraine. I am really glad that Poland is our ally. They have been invaded many times and really suffered under Russia. My DIL’s family still lives there.
Well, apparently the aging tyrant's has moved forward with cementing his legacy as being the best badass our (thankfully) previous president ever met. If that goon were still in office I'd half be expecting him to send American troops to fight on russia's side in this.
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEK7iS4sciFMBYdzQRI8v7MgqGQgEKhAIACoHCAow2Nb3Cj DivdcCMJ_d7gU?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
I always thought that was stupid, but I did like the way he took many NATO Allies to task for not honoring their budgetary commitments.
Geez, I just looked up Putin's age, since he's been called "an aging tyrant" and he's my age. Watch it, folks. He has enough years left to do a lot of damage. This invasion isn't exactly a dying wish.
I thought the Western invasion years were over. I wonder what Russia's long game is.
Geez, I just looked up Putin's age, since he's been called "an aging tyrant" and he's my age. Watch it, folks. He has enough years left to do a lot of damage. This invasion isn't exactly a dying wish.
I thought the Western invasion years were over. I wonder what Russia's long game is.
Chuckling as I had the same thought about the aging tyrant but tempered with deep concern re future activities.
frugal-one
2-24-22, 9:48am
Well, apparently the aging tyrant's has moved forward with cementing his legacy as being the best badass our (thankfully) previous president ever met. If that goon were still in office I'd half be expecting him to send American troops to fight on russia's side in this.
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEK7iS4sciFMBYdzQRI8v7MgqGQgEKhAIACoHCAow2Nb3Cj DivdcCMJ_d7gU?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
Seeing a$$holes tRump and a few other “republicans” calling Putin a genius should be sent to Russia permanently. They can be governed by “the genius”. How anyone can still be for tRump is beyond understanding.
It's horrible, but that said, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. It's a huge gamble for Putin. From what I've seen, public support for the invasion among Russians is lukewarm at best. Let's see what happens when Russian boys start coming home in body bags as their economy spirals downward.
So far, I think Biden has played his hand as well as he could have. It's truly chilling to think what would have happened if you-know-who had been re-elected.
Apparently, some people confuse "strong leader" with "murderous sociopath."
I agree with those who would export all his adoring fans to the front lines.
It’s interesting that upon getting this news so many people’s thoughts went immediately to Trump. If the Russians can occupy Ukraine as effectively as Trump has occupied their minds, the Ukrainians are in for dark days indeed.
It’s interesting that upon getting this news so many people’s thoughts went immediately to Trump. If the Russians can occupy Ukraine as effectively as Trump has occupied their minds, the Ukrainians are in for dark days indeed.
So do you now hate trump as much as you hate Jimmy Carter, considering that that turd isn't keeping his effing mouth shut about this? The only difference between the two is that in the post Carter years democrats didn't shit all over themselves falling in step behind him like a bunch of jack booted thugs, as many republicans are today with trump.
happystuff
2-24-22, 12:49pm
Having human beings learned anything? So, so sad.
I keep hoping that Mr T becomes irrelevant as time goes by. He will continue to say things to keep himself out there since he has so many "followers".
So do you now hate trump as much as you hate Jimmy Carter, considering that that turd isn't keeping his effing mouth shut about this? The only difference between the two is that in the post Carter years democrats didn't shit all over themselves falling in step behind him like a bunch of jack booted thugs, as many republicans are today with trump.
Trump did and said some stupid things during his term, but not enough to whip up the sort of frothing-mouth frenzy of hatred in me that he seems to inspire elsewhere. I would like to see Republicans quietly distance themselves from him the way many Democrats did from Carter when the stink of his failures was still strong in our nostrils. Whether or not we will be spared decades of righteous sermonizing from Trump remains to be seen. It’s possible though.
Meanwhile in Ukraine, we see the difference between the jack booted thugs of overwrought rhetoric and the genuine article.
So here's the danger of confirmation bias with regard to Trumpers: A FB friend posted "Funny--we didn't have any wars between 2017-2021" How many Trumpers will use this event to boost belief in Trump's efficacy as a President?
So here's the danger of confirmation bias with regard to Trumpers: A FB friend posted "Funny--we didn't have any wars between 2017-2021" How many Trumpers will use this event to boost belief in Trump's efficacy as a President?I saw a CNN reporter this morning declaring a straight line from Trump's 2016 election to Putin's 2022 invasion, but I couldn't follow the logic (assuming any were present). I think they were just trying to distract from the fact that after the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia has only invaded other countries during Democratic administrations, which are generally seen as weak on the world stage.
I saw a CNN reporter this morning declaring a straight line from Trump's 2016 election to Putin's 2022 invasion, but I couldn't follow the logic (assuming any were present). I think they were just trying to distract from the fact that after the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia has only invaded other countries during Democratic administrations, which are generally seen as weak on the world stage.
I think they invaded Georgia during the last few months of GWB’s presidency, but I could be wrong.
I do remember thinking Obama’s response to the seizure of the Crimea in 2014 was pretty weak.
I think they invaded Georgia during the last few months of GWB’s presidency, but I could be wrong.
No, I think you're right, I forgot about that one.
ApatheticNoMore
2-24-22, 2:23pm
So here's the danger of confirmation bias with regard to Trumpers: A FB friend posted "Funny--we didn't have any wars between 2017-2021" How many Trumpers will use this event to boost belief in Trump's efficacy as a President?
one problem being it's not even true of course. I mean it depends on what the definition of war is. Wasn't there bombing in Iraq and Syria in war with ISIS (and the u.s. and russia were there), massive bombing in Afghanistan. The whole Yemen thing which the U.S. was maybe not directly in, but absolutely provided support for and that's not even contested. But the type of people that make those posts probably have minimal interest in anything more than scoring political points. So information, don't confuse them with that. U.S. military involvement during Trump did not get a lot of press or attention. I mean there was some attempt of cover up, but it's less that than just didn't generate a lot of interest.
It's sounding like it could be a short war, although those have been grossly mistaken words in other instances.
It's interesting how the importance of oil has played into sanctions and other political maneuvers. A common issue with other international wars of dominance. If Putin's motive i to restore the Russian empire, it's concerning that this is just an isolated take over attempt.
frugal-one
2-24-22, 11:24pm
It’s interesting that upon getting this news so many people’s thoughts went immediately to Trump. If the Russians can occupy Ukraine as effectively as Trump has occupied their minds, the Ukrainians are in for dark days indeed.
Because of tRump’s comments on how Putin was a genius. You must have missed that?
ToomuchStuff
2-25-22, 12:10am
Haven't human beings learned anything? So, so sad.
More ways to kill one another and spend money.
Fixed it for you.
Because of tRump’s comments on how Putin was a genius. You must have missed that?
Didn’t miss it at the time, but I’m not so obsessed that it was the first thing I wanted to talk about when the most significant conflict in Europe in our life time commenced.
frugal-one
2-25-22, 10:58am
Didn’t miss it at the time, but I’m not so obsessed that it was the first thing I wanted to talk about when the most significant conflict in Europe in our life time commenced.
Hey, this needs to be addressed. Supposed “republicans” saying Putin is a genius for trying to takeover a neighbor. WTH This type of talk is not acceptable encouraging others (ie tRump’s rabid followers) here to spout this undemocratic rhetoric. The garbage sprouted by tRump is also being broadcast in Russia. Heresy!
Trump/Putin fanboys and their army of RT trolls are having a field day. I don't see how anyone can dig up a single excuse for this invasion.
Didn’t miss it at the time, but I’m not so obsessed that it was the first thing I wanted to talk about when the most significant conflict in Europe in our life time commenced.
Some agreement. It's rather hard to avoid quibbling over divided American politics, but bigger issues are around global stability, unbridled Russian aggression, oil supplies, and economic implications. Focusing on Trump or weak democrats is rather myopic, but not totally irrelevant. There are a number of other international politics in play.
Trump/Putin fanboys and their army of RT trolls are having a field day. I don't see how anyone can dig up a single excuse for this invasion.
Who is digging up excuses? Besides the invaders themselves, that is?
Who is digging up excuses? Besides the invaders themselves, that is?
Unamerican assholes like Elise Stefanik, the #3 house republican.
"After just one year of a weak, feckless, and unfit President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief, the world is less safe. Rather than peace through strength, we are witnessing Joe Biden's foreign policy of war through weakness. For the past year, our adversaries around the world have been assessing and measuring Joe Biden's leadership on the world stage, and he has abysmally failed on every metric. From kinetic and deadly attacks on our allies and partners, to the catastrophic withdrawal and surrender in Afghanistan, to the cyber attacks impeding American industry and infrastructure, to today's Russian invasion of Ukraine, Joe Biden and his Administration have failed America and the world."
ApatheticNoMore
2-25-22, 5:14pm
Unamerican assholes like Elise Stefanik, the #3 house republican.
"After just one year of a weak, feckless, and unfit President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief, the world is less safe. Rather than peace through strength, we are witnessing Joe Biden's foreign policy of war through weakness. For the past year, our adversaries around the world have been assessing and measuring Joe Biden's leadership on the world stage, and he has abysmally failed on every metric. From kinetic and deadly attacks on our allies and partners, to the catastrophic withdrawal and surrender in Afghanistan, to the cyber attacks impeding American industry and infrastructure, to today's Russian invasion of Ukraine, Joe Biden and his Administration have failed America and the world."
When it may be one of the few areas he is doing the best he can on, which doesn't mean bad stuff doesn't happen. Passing domestic policy legislation. Dems can't control their own party. Pandemic response. What pandemic response? But the Ukraine and Russia, hard to fault him, very difficult situation.
Unamerican assholes like Elise Stefanik, the #3 house republican.
"After just one year of a weak, feckless, and unfit President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief, the world is less safe. Rather than peace through strength, we are witnessing Joe Biden's foreign policy of war through weakness. For the past year, our adversaries around the world have been assessing and measuring Joe Biden's leadership on the world stage, and he has abysmally failed on every metric. From kinetic and deadly attacks on our allies and partners, to the catastrophic withdrawal and surrender in Afghanistan, to the cyber attacks impeding American industry and infrastructure, to today's Russian invasion of Ukraine, Joe Biden and his Administration have failed America and the world."
So now its unamerican assholery to criticize the President? I shudder to think of living in a society where that may be true.
Unamerican assholes like Elise Stefanik, the #3 house republican.
"After just one year of a weak, feckless, and unfit President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief, the world is less safe. Rather than peace through strength, we are witnessing Joe Biden's foreign policy of war through weakness. For the past year, our adversaries around the world have been assessing and measuring Joe Biden's leadership on the world stage, and he has abysmally failed on every metric. From kinetic and deadly attacks on our allies and partners, to the catastrophic withdrawal and surrender in Afghanistan, to the cyber attacks impeding American industry and infrastructure, to today's Russian invasion of Ukraine, Joe Biden and his Administration have failed America and the world."
That doesn’t sound like excuses for an invasion. That sounds like criticism of some of the feckless policies that helped a dictator decide invading a neighbor was a viable proposition.
Not that I fault Biden all that much. Sure, the “minor incursion” gaffe wasn’t very helpful, but I think the Europeans did a lot more to chum the water over the years. Particularly the Germans.
So now its unamerican assholery to criticize the President? I shudder to think of living in a society where that may be true.
I suppose if one thinks that the worst war to hit europe since WWII is just an "over there" kind of event that won't affect us it would be acceptable for someone to make a baseless accusation of US presidential weakness. But I can only imagine the howls of indignation from the republican party if democrats had used 9/11 to try and score political points against W at that time.
All the partisan sniping around the genesis of this war reminds me of George Pickett’s explanation of why his famous charge at Gettysburg failed: “I always thought the Yankees had something to do with it.”
gimmethesimplelife
2-27-22, 8:33am
The first thing that occurs to me here- as much as I complain about US policing, this is multiple degrees of yet worse. I personally believe the average Russian does not want war or the fallout war creates. And Russia by this act has alienated itself from the West. And for what real gain or purpose?
I feel bad here as on.my Father's side I'm second generation outside of Russia. Actually.Minsk which is now in Belsrus but in.my grandparent's day was the former Soviet Union. I don't play up.this bloodline as I've never known just what to make of Russia. Putin creeps me out as does Erdogan in.Turkey and the leaders of Hungary and the Phillipines.
I've often wondered if I should discretely visit Russia someday. I know the large cities offer much culture - but over the top Putin makes me feel embarrassed of this half of my blood. Rob
The first thing that occurs to me here- as much as I complain about US policing, this is multiple degrees of yet worse. I personally believe the average Russian does not want war or the fallout war creates. And Russia by this act has alienated itself from the West. And for what real gain or purpose?
I feel bad here as on.my Father's side I'm second generation outside of Russia. Actually.Minsk which is now in Belsrus but in.my grandparent's day was the former Soviet Union. I don't play up.this bloodline as I've never known just what to make of Russia. Putin creeps me out as does Erdogan in.Turkey and the leaders of Hungary and the Phillipines.
I've often wondered if I should discretely visit Russia someday. I know the large cities offer much culture - but over the top Putin makes me feel embarrassed of this half of my blood. Rob
It is said by Shakespeare and others that "there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so". Don't make the mistake of criticizing the physical person of whatever nation which cannot be readily changed but, by all means, present your focused views of their thinking which can be changed. Bloodlines have nothing to do with the situation in Ukraine or anywhere else but the thoughts held in mind are father to any deed, good or bad.
It was so silly to hear one hockey player badmouthing another hockey player because of his country of birth not his skills as a player or qualities as a human being.
DEFCON 2 today. Fun fun fun.
frugal-one
2-27-22, 3:33pm
DEFCON 2 today. Fun fun fun.
Frightening.
I read that they are flying Ukrainian flags all over Taiwan.
I was talking to two Romanian immigrant women members of my church (Orthodox) today. They told me that that there is a wealthy hotel and restaurant owner in their area of Romania bordering Ukraine, that has opened his hotels and restaurants to refugees free of charge.
gimmethesimplelife
2-27-22, 10:22pm
I don't play it.up.but my.blood is 1/2 Russian from my Father's side. I don't feel much kinship with Russia BUT I believe the average Russian citizen does not want war or the fallout war generates. I feel everyday Russians here are victims, too. What's going to happen now I don't know. I think now might be a great time to stock up on canned goods. And pray if that's your thing. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
2-27-22, 10:23pm
I was talking to two Romanian immigrant women members of my church (Orthodox) today. They told me that that there is a wealthy hotel and restaurant owner in their area of Romania bordering Ukraine, that has opened his hotels and restaurants to refugees free of charge.Thank You! I'm feeling down today and your post made me feel some hope. Rob
He’s also having food sent to the border for people immediately as they cross.
Glad it gave you some hope.
I saw a meme today - 4 things on earth you can see from space: the Grand Canyon, The Great Pyramids of Giza, The Amazon River and the balls of Volodymyr Zelensky.
I saw a meme today - 4 things on earth you can see from space: the Grand Canyon, The Great Pyramids of Giza, The Amazon River and the balls of Volodymyr Zelensky.
Ha, that's a good one. I've been very impressed with Mr Zelensky. I've grown accustomed to politicians such as Mr Trudeau going into hiding in the US when truckers peacefully protest so it was refreshing to see Mr Zelensky's response to our offer to get him out of the country. He said "I don't need a ride, I need ammunition." That's a real leader!
iris lilies
2-28-22, 4:17pm
I saw a meme today - 4 things on earth you can see from space: the Grand Canyon, The Great Pyramids of Giza, The Amazon River and the balls of Volodymyr Zelensky.
Yeah, DH pointed out that one to me this morning. Funny. This Ukraine President is getting lots of love from Americans.
Doing a little work recalibrating some old instruments today in the lab.
https://i.imgur.com/c4DmuVB.jpg
Ha, that's a good one. I've been very impressed with Mr Zelensky. I've grown accustomed to politicians such as Mr Trudeau going into hiding in the US when truckers peacefully protest so it was refreshing to see Mr Zelensky's response to our offer to get him out of the country. He said "I don't need a ride, I need ammunition." That's a real leader!
He’s certainly held out longer than the “experts” initially thought. He’s basically shamed and shocked the Germans out of their Merkel-era defense parasitism. Sweden and Finland are openly talking about NATO membership. It’s only a matter of time until Hollywood gets out their version of the story. Not bad for a comedian.
I heard this morning that the Snake Island troops got out alive. I hope that’s true.
I heard this morning that the Snake Island troops got out alive. I hope that’s true.
I heard that too, but currently being held captive by the Russians.
Doing a little work recalibrating some old instruments today in the lab.
Are you really feeling that this is an Archduke Ferdinand / 1939 Invasion of Poland event?
I don’t like Trudeau, but I just heard on the BBC that Canada is the first country banning all Russian oil and gas imports.
gimmethesimplelife
2-28-22, 9:02pm
Ha, that's a good one. I've been very impressed with Mr Zelensky. I've grown accustomed to politicians such as Mr Trudeau going into hiding in the US when truckers peacefully protest so it was refreshing to see Mr Zelensky's response to our offer to get him out of the country. He said "I don't need a ride, I need ammunition." That's a real leader!Don't drop dead of shock here, Alan. On this one I could not agree with you more. Rob
I don’t like Trudeau, but I just heard on the BBC that Canada is the first country banning all Russian oil and gas imports.
The thing about that is that because oil is an international commodity Canada will just buy from somewhere else (assuming they were even importing russian oil in the first place) and the oil that Canada was buying from Russia will get bought by someone else like China. In the big picture it won't actually make any difference.
Unable to organize a successful lightning shock and awe campaign, they appear to be defaulting to the brutal tactics they used against hostile cities in Chechnya and Syria.
This does not appear to be a high quality military, which doesn’t mean they won’t eventually win.
I just read that Ukrainians who sell captured military equipment for scrap don’t have to report it on their taxes.
dado potato
3-2-22, 2:02pm
Among the "economic sanctions" against Russia, some states, and the management of various bars and liquor stores have banned the sale of Russian-made vodka.
Liquor Control Boards in Maine, New Hampshire, Oregon, Ohio, Utah, and the Province of Ontario have made the news with their actions.
For example, Oregon ordered 5,000 bottles of Russian-made vodka to be pulled from the shelves in 281 stores. Other brands of vodka with Russian names, but not supplied by distilleries located in Russia, continue to be sold. "Stolichnaya", a brand of the Stoli Group, is a product of Latvia. The founder of Stoli Group was born in Russia, but was exiled. The website of Stoli Group opens with a blue and yellow graphic of a dove, and states: Stoli Group stands for peace in Europe and in solidarity with the Ukrainian people.
Oregon Governor Kate Brown stated: "The actions of the Russian Government are not the actions of the Russian People. We value our Russian community here in Oregon, and many Russian families are being impacted by this conflict."
ToomuchStuff
3-2-22, 3:15pm
Among the "economic sanctions" against Russia, some states, and the management of various bars and liquor stores have banned the sale of Russian-made vodka.
Liquor Control Boards in Maine, New Hampshire, Oregon, Ohio, Utah, and the Province of Ontario have made the news with their actions.
For example, Oregon ordered 5,000 bottles of Russian-made vodka to be pulled from the shelves in 281 stores. Other brands of vodka with Russian names, but not supplied by distilleries located in Russia, continue to be sold. "Stolichnaya", a brand of the Stoli Group, is a product of Latvia. The founder of Stoli Group was born in Russia, but was exiled. The website of Stoli Group opens with a blue and yellow graphic of a dove, and states: Stoli Group stands for peace in Europe and in solidarity with the Ukrainian people.
Oregon Governor Kate Brown stated: "The actions of the Russian Government are not the actions of the Russian People. We value our Russian community here in Oregon, and many Russian families are being impacted by this conflict."
Stupid, as it was bought and paid for.
If they are to ban the sale of it, they should be reimbursing the companies selling it for the cost of it, so that money isn't tied up in non usable product and can still generate sales tax revenue.
I would estimate that the Vodka issue has very little economic detriment or impact in the big scheme of things, but it does make a statement. I wonder how the oligarchs have distributed their wealth and if they are invested in the vodka companies. It's probably big business based on Russian vodka thirst.
Stupid, as it was bought and paid for.
Not as stupid as the boycott of French fries after the start of the Iraq War when France said they would not participate in any invasion.
And I do feel bad for Stoli getting caught in the crossfire. I agree with Ezra Klein in the NYT today that if we are going to put our money where are mouth is, we should forget about the vodka and think about boycotting Russian energy.
iris lilies
3-2-22, 3:46pm
Not as stupid as the boycott of French fries after the start of the Iraq War when France said they would not participate in any invasion.
And I do feel bad for Stoli getting caught in the crossfire. I agree with Ezra Klein in the NYT today that if we are going to put our money where are mouth is, we should forget about the vodka and think about boycotting Russian energy.
Pshaw..as though vodka ISN’T energy.
ha
I agree with Ezra Klein in the NYT today that if we are going to put our money where are mouth is, we should forget about the vodka and think about boycotting Russian energy.
I agree, although that would create an international supply problem which would put our current administrations forced cutback on domestic oil drilling and transport under an uncomfortable spotlight, and midterms are coming up.
Hmmm. My grandfather spent his time in WWII on a small boat in the Pacific hiding from the Japanese forces during the day, and sneaking out at night to resupply submarines. He had such a bad time during the war that he basically never left his home county after his return. Only a short time before his death did he tell me some of the horrors he experienced.
I think I am not gonna whine about paying a bit more at the pump for gas.
They will just store it since it does not go bad and bring it out when this is over. More of an issue is that Russia provides something around 40% of the energy for Europe.
It might be a fortuitous time for the big car makers to be rolling out all their new electric models.
Hmmm. My grandfather spent his time in WWII on a small boat in the Pacific hiding from the Japanese forces during the day, and sneaking out at night to resupply submarines. He had such a bad time during the war that he basically never left his home county after his return. Only a short time before his death did he tell me some of the horrors he experienced.
I think I am not gonna whine about paying a bit more at the pump for gas.
My father was very close-lipped about the horrors he saw during WWII, too. We just knew there were plenty.
Hmmm. My grandfather spent his time in WWII on a small boat in the Pacific hiding from the Japanese forces during the day, and sneaking out at night to resupply submarines. He had such a bad time during the war that he basically never left his home county after his return. Only a short time before his death did he tell me some of the horrors he experienced.
I think I am not gonna whine about paying a bit more at the pump for gas.
Don’t you have an electric car?
The gas station on my corner was $3.88 this morning. Been that for a few days. Was $4.19 when I got home. Down the road a bit another station was $4.29. Far NW Chicago burbs. Good thing my Escape gets 27 mpg.
Indy has $3.79 with quite a few variations in the suburbs.
Indy has $3.79 with quite a few variations in the suburbs.
That’s about was it was in Michigan this weekend when I was attending a shipwreck event in the Detroit area.
One good thing about when I go away diving - I have access to cheaper gas than at home.
It's interesting how people weigh the price of gas at the pump as an important metric of the state of the nation. If not the world.
It's interesting how people weigh the price of gas at the pump as an important metric of the state of the nation. If not the world.
https://scontent.fluk1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/272985434_476308144205101_1338206486181649442_n.pn g?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=pTUmuG9--SUAX8DV5PW&_nc_ht=scontent.fluk1-1.fna&oh=03_AVKRGYKqsBNSRlIkvf3JLhJuVQz_7ZNtkcA9qXi7c8pq 3A&oe=62453BB9
This was taken during a fillup for my truck 18 months ago. I'd gotten a dollar per gallon off with my Kroger Rewards so the cost per gallon was actually $1.98. Filled up last week at the same spot for $3.99 per gallon, that's a 100% increase in less than two years. I wouldn't call that indicative of the state of the nation but I would say that the worst inflationary trend in 40 years, with no end in sight, might be.
Feb 19, 2022 here. Diesel was $4.99. This is pre-Ukraine-market-disruption:
https://i.imgur.com/G8G0WEV.jpg
I agree, although that would create an international supply problem which would put our current administrations forced cutback on domestic oil drilling and transport under an uncomfortable spotlight, and midterms are coming up.
How much has the US actually cut back production since Biden entered the white house?
My $3.99 price was pre-Ukraine-market disruption too. I'm guessing the next time I pull in I'll be paying west coast prices too.
How much has the US actually cut back production since Biden entered the white house?
Not fast enough to keep the planet from cooking and condemning our offspring to a really hard time.
My $3.99 price was pre-Ukraine-market disruption too. I'm guessing the next time I pull in I'll be paying west coast prices too.
I was filling up my Toyota pickup, which (discounting a road trip) I've only put a couple of tanks in during the entire pandemic, as I had luckily purchased a small electric vehicle right before the pandemic hits. The wee EV can handle most of my errands here most of the year in most weather, so I use very little gas or diesel anymore.
How much has the US actually cut back production since Biden entered the white house?
I'm not sure, I've seen estimates ranging from 14% to 20%.
ApatheticNoMore
3-3-22, 2:14am
Not fast enough to keep the planet from cooking and condemning our offspring to a really hard time.
+1
Yea, Biden's policies there are terrible. But then most voters might want terrible policies given who they elect. The good news is that they will get them, the bad news is that they will get them and unfortunately the rest of us too.
It's interesting how people weigh the price of gas at the pump as an important metric of the state of the nation. If not the world.
I agree. We are so entrenched in our way of life and expectations about the value of things we consume, and have very little imagination about the alternatives to those long-held assumptions. I remember when my best friend and I were making our senior-year back-to-school lists, and she said, "..and I need a white sweater." So I half-jokingly challenged her: "You NEED a white sweater? Like you'll die if you don't get one??" And she said, very seriously, "Yes, I NEED a white sweater."
In a way gas is a white sweater. I'm not trivializing people who have to use gas-fueled transportation to get to work and who may not have the disposable income to be able to absorb the rise in prices, but the ones who are going to complain the most will most likely be the ones who have gas guzzling cars and who CAN afford to pay a little more.
There are a lot of "white sweaters" that are going to keep us from saving the planet.
There are a lot of "white sweaters" that are going to keep us from saving the planet.
I like the "white sweater" analogy. There was a time not so long ago when gas got expensive and it seems like the market for big SUVs sort of collapsed. People adjust their spending and travel habits and I'm not so sure at the time if they really missed their big SUV, or in the same sense they really didn't need their white sweater. It's too bad it takes a hit to the wallet for some, over a threat to the environment.
We seem to be entering a new period of vehicle shaming. There’s a guy at Slate who says if you bought a full size truck you must be OK with killing kids.
Personally, I think the people who keep getting doomsday predictions wrong are so down on carbon capture and nuclear fusion technologies that there’s probably something to them. It may be that our best policy could be listening to what John Kerry says as he jets around the globe and do the opposite.
Teacher Terry
3-3-22, 11:35am
Most people who drive suvs and trucks don’t need them. If we were remodeling and needed to transport big stuff we would rent a truck. Same with taking stuff to the dump. We fell out of love pretty quickly with our 27 ft motor home because it got 9 miles per gallon. It was cheaper to take our car and stay in motels on a trip than put gas in that thing and have me cook all our meals. Plus it’s faster to take the car as well as more comfortable to stay in a motel.
You folks keep lumping SUVs all together. There are a lot of smaller SUVs that still get decent gas mileage. I know a number of seniors who drive the small crossovers because they like a higher vehicle that’s easier to get into. Heck, that’s one of the reasons I love my Escape besides the scuba gear hauling capacity.
I can well afford to pay the current gas prices. Just amazed how much they’re going up. At this time I’m not going to limit any driving. Don’t have any plans to dive until later in the month anyway. Come late April, I’m a diving fool.
It is odd how old paradigms continue and people refuse to change or think differently until they have to.
Too many of the members here are living in cushy retirement. Are you going to tell the struggling suburbanite who doesn’t have public transit available and is driving a 10 year old car that they’ve got to plunk down $30K (or whatever it is) for an electric car when they can’t afford the rising gas prices?
The sky is falling climate change types seem to have one hell of a disconnect with what normal struggling people are going through.
Too many of the members here are living in cushy retirement. Are you going to tell the struggling suburbanite who doesn’t have public transit available and is driving a 10 year old car that they’ve got to plunk down $30K (or whatever it is) for an electric car when they can’t afford the rising gas prices?
The sky is falling climate change types seem to have one hell of a disconnect with what normal struggling people are going through.
I assume that the people who are struggling financially and have few other transportation options can still have gas efficient cars or limit unnecessary or frivolous pleasure travel in order to keep their costs down, which is OK by my standards. It doesn't have to be an expensive electric. I bike commuted 6 or 8 miles one way to work for probably a third or so of my working years and bikes are even cheaper. Again not everyone is so fortunate, but it's a real cost savings for those on limited budgets.
Teacher Terry
3-3-22, 12:54pm
I feel sorry for people that have to drive a lot for work, kids, etc. We couldn’t limit our driving when in that stage of life but we always drove small cars even though there were 5 of us with the kids all being tall boys. It wasn’t often that all 5 of us were in one car and when we were the kids could be a little uncomfortable. Most the time one of the parents was driving the kids and one could sit in the front seat. Working families can’t afford electric cars and neither can I.
Too many of the members here are living in cushy retirement. Are you going to tell the struggling suburbanite who doesn’t have public transit available and is driving a 10 year old car that they’ve got to plunk down $30K (or whatever it is) for an electric car when they can’t afford the rising gas prices?
The sky is falling climate change types seem to have one hell of a disconnect with what normal struggling people are going through.
I specifically said that I'm not talking about people who are struggling. I do think choices are going to be thrust upon us at some point. The UN published the ICC Climate Change report, and nothing really has changed in terms of national climate targets and political will.
It's too bad that some of our outspoken climate change leaders don't always walk the walk, but there are many people, including scientists who have proposed a strike to bring more attention to the facts about climate change, who ARE walking the walk. If the government and people are collectively making choices that are sabotaging the planet, so be it. Actions have consequences. If I say that a match is going to burn the house down, I'm not match-shaming, I'm just stating a fact.
Who gets to identify the fatal match? You? Greta Thunberg? Who gets to decide the appropriate driver/vehicle combination? We’re burning electricity having this discussion. Is that ethically permissible?
Who gets to identify the fatal match? You? Greta Thunberg? Who gets to decide the appropriate driver/vehicle combination? We’re burning electricity having this discussion. Is that ethically permissible?
That's not for one person to decide. And it's not really a question of ethics. It's a question of values and even a question of survival, and identifying the relevant threats, and then collectively determining the best strategies to address them. Many don't agree there is a threat to so many of things we hold dear.
Too many of the members here are living in cushy retirement. Are you going to tell the struggling suburbanite who doesn’t have public transit available and is driving a 10 year old car that they’ve got to plunk down $30K (or whatever it is) for an electric car when they can’t afford the rising gas prices?
The sky is falling climate change types seem to have one hell of a disconnect with what normal struggling people are going through.
If many scientists (and Greta Thunberg :~) ) are to be believed, "normal struggling people" are going to be struggling a lot more if we don't get this right. As far as commuting, which I absolutely despise, I believe work from home--whenever possible--is the obvious solution. Most conscientious people take at least some steps to minimize their impact on the planet, and we can probably all do more.
Who gets to identify the fatal match? You? Greta Thunberg? Who gets to decide the appropriate driver/vehicle combination? We’re burning electricity having this discussion. Is that ethically permissible?
Who gets to decide what the human environment will look like the next few decades? One could suspect that people will vote the gas price issues over climate impact and what ever this generation decides will be the futures the next generations will have to adapt to, which seems slightly unfair.
The reality is that the people likely to be harmed most by climate change are the ones who have done the least to cause it. Most of us reading this thread will likely, at worst, suffer some inconvenience. We live in a rich country that can spend ungodly amounts of money defending shorelines and fighting wildfires, etc. Most of the people in substantially less wealthy countries won't be so lucky.
My $3.99 price was pre-Ukraine-market disruption too. I'm guessing the next time I pull in I'll be paying west coast prices too.
The reality is that the people likely to be harmed most by climate change are the ones who have done the least to cause it. Most of us reading this thread will likely, at worst, suffer some inconvenience.
Drove by the same gas station today and diesel was $4.59 per gallon, a $0.60 increase in just over a week. I feel for everyone who doesn't have the luxury of gladly paying increasingly more for basic staples in order to exhibit their environmental bona fides.
Drove by the same gas station today and diesel was $4.59 per gallon, a $0.60 increase in just over a week. I feel for everyone who doesn't have the luxury of gladly paying increasingly more for basic staples in order to exhibit their environmental bona fides.
Supply and demand will generally be related to price. As long as global oil supply is from politically unstable areas, price volatility will follow. The other side of the equation is demand, as we saw during the pandemic. Or maybe from less reliance on fossil fuels.
Far as I can figure, any environmental movement is not driving high gas prices, but is possibly a solution by reducing reliance.
Maybe car pooling will make a comeback. Mass transit (the bane of my work life) can work for some. Clearly, though, mass working from home would be the very best solution.
Maybe car pooling will make a comeback. Mass transit (the bane of my work life) can work for some. Clearly, though, mass working from home would be the very best solution.
Remember hypermiling? Maybe that will make a comeback, too.
ApatheticNoMore
3-3-22, 9:50pm
High gas prices basically seem effective in getting people to drive more fuel efficient cars. They work. 48/50 states have a truck or SUV as the best selling vehicle (rav4 is a smaller truck, the others are not). Gas prices are high in California compared to most states and so a big truck is not the best selling vehicle. And no it's not a huge deal to pay higher gas taxes. Last fill up was $4.99 a gallon. That's really another reason to drive a fuel efficient (and if you can afford it hybrid or electric) vehicle, not just that it's better for the planet, a little bit I guess, but it's one less thing in life to worry about frankly, gas prices jumping around. Gas prices are up, ok, oh well. I may as well check what stocks are doing every single day ... yea no thanks.
And yes there are those who need trucks for employment here too. Teslas also sell well but $$$$$$ up front.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-best-selling-vehicles-in-america-by-state/
And today:
https://i.imgur.com/0dD4sXE.jpg
Drove by the same gas station today and diesel was $4.59 per gallon, a $0.60 increase in just over a week. I feel for everyone who doesn't have the luxury of gladly paying increasingly more for basic staples in order to exhibit their environmental bona fides.
I never expected this to happen but I paid less for gas today, in California, than you did. Maybe diesel is more. I didn’t look at that price, but I only paid $4.55 for regular.
dado potato
3-4-22, 1:21am
Meanwhile, in Ukraine at least 2,000 civilians have been killed.
On March 2, Karim Khan, a prosecutor for the International Criminal Court in The Hague, Netherlands, announced that he had opened an investigation of the actions of Russian forces in Ukraine. Now there is a possibility that the ICC will find that Putin bears command responsibility for war crimes, and they will prosecute Putin to the full extent of the law.
Meanwhile, in Ukraine at least 2,000 civilians have been killed.
On March 2, Karim Khan, a prosecutor for the International Criminal Court in The Hague, Netherlands, announced that he had opened an investigation of the actions of Russian forces in Ukraine. Now there is a possibility that the ICC will find that Putin bears command responsibility for war crimes, and they will prosecute Putin to the full extent of the law.
I doubt the full extent of the law will extend very far in Putin’s case. They can convict him, but they can’t enforce any kind of sentence. About the best the West can do is economic sanctions and arming Ukraine to raise the costs of this particular aggression, and hope at some point the Russian elite will have had enough.
I understand what the news has said about Putin's motives to reestablish the Russian empire and also to buffer Russia from NATO nations. At least those seem to be the primary motives I've seen. But it doesn't make sense to me to take over a country where the people will probably be resistant to any form of puppet government for years, that has been devastated by the ravages of war, and has caused major economic problems in the home land.
Thinking that Putin is a pretty smart guy in a conniving sort of way, I'm not seeing how he will come out ahead. There must be more to it? Could it be part of a bigger plan.
Thinking that Putin is a pretty smart guy in a conniving sort of way, I'm not seeing how he will come out ahead. There must be more to it? Could it be part of a bigger plan.
Putin may be a victim of surrounding himself by yes men that are afraid to be honest with him. Everything I’m reading seems to indicate that his military is not near as ready as we (and he?) assumed it was. How often have the thiefs running his military said ‘yes, we have purchased 5,000 whatever piece of equipment’ when they only purchased 500 and spent the rest of the money on half a dozen trump tower apartments for family members? And we have no idea how badly covid affected them. They have a low vax rate and a subpar vaccine. How many soldiers are sick/dead/suffering long covid?
It’s kind of ironic that his biggest fear is a stronger nato/more unified Western Europe and this invasion has caused exactly that.
It’s kind of ironic that his biggest fear is a stronger nato/more unified Western Europe and this invasion has caused exactly that.
The other side of things seems to be that no one is willing to offer troop involvement for fear of escalation. In spite of a stronger NATO, will they really come to the aid of some one if it risks escalation. Maybe Putin is just testing the waters.
There are probably corrupt thieves skimming off Russia's military budget, but their overall military power is somewhat undisputable.
Teacher Terry
3-4-22, 12:25pm
Once Ukraine is destroyed who is going to pay to rebuild it? What’s the point of owning a lot of ruble minus most of the people?
The other side of things seems to be that no one is willing to offer troop involvement for fear of escalation. In spite of a stronger NATO, will they really come to the aid of some one if it risks escalation. Maybe Putin is just testing the waters.
There are probably corrupt thieves skimming off Russia's military budget, but their overall military power is somewhat undisputable.
Their conventional military power does seem to have declined significantly since the days of the Warsaw Pact. They couldnÂ’t manage a fast decapitation operation against a government at a severe quantitative disadvantage in almost every category, and despite a long preparation time. That, and their dreadful logistics planning would seem to indicate truly terrible staff work. They had the resources to achieve air superiority in the first day or two, but have still failed to do so. The quality of their training and doctrine seems very poor, having fielded hordes of short-service conscripts with very limited proficiency in combined arms. That isnÂ’t to say they wonÂ’t prevail in time, especially given their apparent willingness to deploy thermobaric and cluster munitions, and other frightful means.
It seems reasonable to me that absent their nuclear capability, the West might have intervened. As it is, I think jp1 is right about this war reviving the democracies interest in standing up to aggression like this. The Germans have dropped their pretense that history ended in 1989 and military establishments are just for show. The Swedes and Finns are talking seriously about NATO membership. Even the Swiss have dropped their neutral stance to impose sanctions. And the sanctions seem to be biting more seriously than I would have thought. All in all, it would seem whatever imperial project he had in mind will be set back even if he “wins”.
Very good NYT article this morning on the background of how the west changed to act so quickly against Russia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/05/world/europe/russia-ukraine-invasion-sanctions.html
Teacher Terry
3-5-22, 1:18pm
Tradd, thanks for the article.
I’m getting my coverage from the NYT and BBC Radio online. I don’t just listen to the World
service. Radio 5 Live is the local UK talk radio station, but I enjoy it. They talk to a lot of people in Ukraine. Due to the 6 hour time difference I mostly listen to their overnight host, who actually grew up in Africa (he’s Nigerian). Lovely voice. The World at One on Radio 4, plus general news coverage on the World Service. BBC Radio had a great app called BBC Sounds to get all the stations. If you’re not in the UK, it gives program times in local time.
I also like reading the Economist weekly magazine out of the UK. It’s expensive, but I get it free online through one of my library’s digital apps. Libby, I think.
I’m getting my coverage from the NYT and BBC Radio online. I don’t just listen to the World
service. Radio 5 Live is the local UK talk radio station, but I enjoy it. They talk to a lot of people in Ukraine. Due to the 6 hour time difference I mostly listen to their overnight host, who actually grew up in Africa (he’s Nigerian). Lovely voice. The World at One on Radio 4, plus general news coverage on the World Service. BBC Radio had a great app called BBC Sounds to get all the stations. If you’re not in the UK, it gives program times in local time.
I've thought about getting VPN to listen to overseas broadcasts.
You won’t need a VPN for the BBC.
Listen here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds
You won’t need a VPN for the BBC.
Listen here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds
Thanks! I was thinking more along the lines of French, Italian, etc. news.
Thanks! I was thinking more along the lines of French, Italian, etc. news.
France 24 is in English and has 24 hour broadcasts.
Many radio stations these days have no limits on who can listen. Just do some googling and see what you come up with. Have you tried to listen to European stations before?
France 24 is in English and has 24 hour broadcasts.
Many radio stations these days have no limits on who can listen. Just do some googling and see what you come up with. Have you tried to listen to European stations before?
There was a site with individual foreign language channels years ago, but it disappeared. I've looked periodically since, with no success.
There was a site with individual foreign language channels years ago, but it disappeared. I've looked periodically since, with no success.
Do you have a smartphone? If so, download the TuneIn app. I just searched for France and a bunch of stations came up. Try the TuneIn website as well.
Do you have a smartphone? If so, download the TuneIn app. I just searched for France and a bunch of stations came up. Try the TuneIn website as well.
I have TuneIn--I'll have to widen my horizons!
Gas was up to $4.49 today. Up $0.20 since Friday (didn’t leave the house yesterday.
Teacher Terry
3-6-22, 10:16pm
We are at $5. It was lower last week.
I have no cable, so I've been watching France24 and Al Jazeera on Youtube. Round the clock coverage and no commercials to sit through.
I've also been watching RT. My perception is that in the beginning, fewer outright lies and more coverage of the actual war, albeit distorted. During the last couple of days, each time I've tuned in, it's been all about the Ukrainian military slaughtering the insurgents in the east and little mention of what's happening now.
This situation has taught me one thing - if you want to keep in touch with someone, make sure you have their mobile number. Don’t count on FB Messenger, FB, Instagram to keep in touch. What’s App is different as it’s tied to your mobile number.
I know too many people who have gotten booted off social media for a variety of reasons or even their account was hacked.
I pay $8 a month for a basic digital subscription to the NYT. Their app has always been excellent and the coverage is great.
This weekend, I rented several AirBnB rooms in Kiev for this week. (Remarkably inexpensive tourist destination btw, and it looks like it would have been a great actual trip).
I picked places that had been in business several years, that looked like they were run by individual owners and not giant vacation rental firms.
I told them all in my note that I wasn't actually going to show up, and to use the money for Good Things.
This morning I got back notes from actual human beings thanking me, mostly telling me they were giving the funds to their housekeepers and handymen, and the military resistance.
Mission accomplished.
This probably violates some federal law ��
A single day seemed to run anywhere from $30-$70/night, so it seems a light-weight method to get cash directly into the hands of a Ukrainian without governmental or NGO overhead.
Wow, bae! What a wonderful thing to do!
One of my friends here used 23andme and ancestry.com to track down distant Ukrainian relatives, and initiated contact. Of the 80-ish cold-call emails he sent, he got back 5 responses, and is now directly aiding relatives he didn't even know he had, which I thought was cool.
I've heard of people doing this, as well as using Etsy to order downloads, etc. in order to generate revenue for Ukrainians. That may not be possible, though, as the destruction ramps up. There's not much else we can do from here, save wishing for Putin to spend the rest of his miserable life in a cell somewhere, which isn't likely to happen.
I just got this in an email: “People are booking Airbnbs in Ukraine as a form of direct aid — telling hosts it's a gesture of solidarity. In 2 days, more than 61,000 nights were booked, grossing nearly $2 million, the company said.”
I just hope that money can provide food, shelter, and other necessities to the beleaguered people of the areas most in need.
Our local ammunition plant sent a million rounds.
Saw an article today that one Russian general made an unsecured phone call, which gave his location away. He’s now dead.
Saw an article today that one Russian general made an unsecured phone, which gave his location away. He’s now dead.
It hasn’t been a good time to be a Russian general officer. I understand two have been KIA and another eight have been fired. There is a long history of despots blaming their officers for their own paranoia and bad decisions. Especially in Russia.
gimmethesimplelife
3-25-22, 8:05pm
I've thought about this a lot lately. I have been raised to believe that quickly fleeing a situation such as the invasion of Ukraine was honorable and noble. And then for the past 30 days I've been glued to the media as much as possible given my job.
I have to say one thing. I have much respect for Ukraine and it's people. It is amazing to me seeing Ukraine stand and fight. Obviously they believe in their country.....something I did not believe was possible in this world.
I also have to say I'd much rather be here than in Russia. You can't sue for police brutality in Russia and the police are markedly worse there towards protestors.....some of what I've been reading is very alarming.
I just hope this ends or at least lessens soon. I'm not seeing Russia as gaining anything from this insane war. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-25-22, 8:08pm
Excellent work, Bae!Agreed 100 percent. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-25-22, 8:15pm
Once Ukraine is destroyed who is going to pay to rebuild it? What’s the point of owning a lot of ruble minus most of the people?It may mean hope for disenfranchised blue collar workers in the first world and for general labor elsewhere willing and able to travel. It will take many workers to rebuild and I'm thinking Ukraine will have to let in outsiders to get the work done more quickly. But....first this damn war needs to end, preferably with Putin being ousted.
One more thing I've realized - I really miss Mikhail and Raisa Gorbachev of.the late 80's! What a hopeful time and what a different Russia that was, at least on the surface. Rob
I've thought about this a lot lately. I have been raised to believe that quickly fleeing a situation such as the invasion of Ukraine was honorable and noble.
I'm not surprised to hear that. At least you're in good company, a recent poll showed that a majority of Democrats in this country feel the same way, well, about the quickly fleeing part anyway. Personally, I think it's much more honorable and noble to stand up to a bully, make sure they understand that it's not so easy to invade and conquer. A good dose of standing up for yourself, your family and your country probably does more to prevent more of the same than your way ever will. To me, that's honorable and noble.
I have been raised to believe that quickly fleeing a situation such as the invasion of Ukraine was honorable and noble.
I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.
I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.
Probably not if you're a young mother with small children in tow, either
gimmethesimplelife
3-25-22, 9:32pm
I'm not surprised to hear that. At least you're in good company, a recent poll showed that a majority of Democrats in this country feel the same way, well, about the quickly fleeing part anyway. Personally, I think it's much more honorable and noble to stand up to a bully, make sure they understand that it's not so easy to invade and conquer. A good dose of standing up for yourself, your family and your country probably does more to prevent more of the same than your way ever will. To me, that's honorable and noble.Just curious. Alan, do you know how the question in this poll was worded? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-25-22, 9:38pm
I'm not surprised to hear that. At least you're in good company, a recent poll showed that a majority of Democrats in this country feel the same way, well, about the quickly fleeing part anyway. Personally, I think it's much more honorable and noble to stand up to a bully, make sure they understand that it's not so easy to invade and conquer. A good dose of standing up for yourself, your family and your country probably does more to prevent more of the same than your way ever will. To me, that's honorable and noble.Most Democrats have not grown up with a dose of harrowing during/after WW2 stories as I have. Because of this I think I believe this way - something like the invasion of Ukraine comes and the goal overnight changes to survival. That of yourself and anyone you can help on your way to safety. I don't disagree with your take entirely - surprise! - but I still hold that fleeing is noble and wise though not as respectable as Ukrainian behavior. Those people have courage! Rob
Just curious. Alan, do you know how the question in this poll was worded? Rob
Not sure, it was a Quinnipiac University poll, you can find the results here: 3/7/22 - Vast Majority Of Americans Say Ban Russian Oil, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Nearly 8 In 10 Support U.S. Military Response If Putin Attacks A NATO Country | Quinnipiac University Poll (https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3838)
An excerpt from their results: WHAT WOULD AMERICANS DO?
"As the world witnesses what is happening to Ukraine, Americans were asked what they would do if they were in the same position as Ukrainians are now: stay and fight or leave the country? A majority (55 percent) say they would stay and fight, while 38 percent say they would leave the country. Republicans say 68 - 25 percent and independents say 57 - 36 percent they would stay and fight, while Democrats say 52 - 40 percent they would leave the country."
Most Democrats have not grown up with a dose of harrowing during/after WW2 stories as I have. Because of this I think I believe this way - something like the invasion of Ukraine comes and the goal overnight changes to survival. That of yourself and anyone you can help on your way to safety. I don't disagree with your take entirely - surprise! - but I still hold that fleeing is noble and wise though not as respectable as Ukrainian behavior. Those people have courage! Rob
I'm confused. What do Democrats have to do with it, and did they have an alternate reality than Republicans?
Why would they bother polling people about something that has zero chance of happening. If anyone is going to start a war with us it’s not going to be soldiers and tanks moving down Main Street USA.
iris lilies
3-26-22, 7:40am
Why would they bother polling people about something that has zero chance of happening. If anyone is going to start a war with us it’s not going to be soldiers and tanks moving down Main Street USA.
True. That was my thought as well. Another stupid poll.
Had a very disturbing conversation with a friend last night. Friend is of mostly Russian background, but has some Ukrainian heritage, as well. Her brother is married to a woman from Ukraine. Sister in law only had one remaining immediate relative alive - her mother - who goes back and forth her between the US and UKraine. I asked if SIL’s mother was in the US Indefinitely. Friend told me SIL’s mother lives south of Chernobyl in the middle of nowhere, has seen no fighting, and sees absolutely no reason to leave. She had been in the US over the winter but returned shortly before the Russians invaded. I was told SIL has an uncle who is refusing to fight for Ukraine but is defending his property from looters - not Russians, but the average citizens who had been handed guns and were now looting since they never had very much and are now taking whatever they can.
Friend then launched into conspiracy level stuff - Putin doesn’t want to hurt the average Ukrainians. He’s going slow to given them their time to surrender, etc. Plus a whole bunch of stuff that was weapons grade conspiracy theory stuff. The US and Europe are going to pay for what they’ve done so far and it would become apparent within a few years. She was telling me not to pay attention to what’s going on in the mainstream media and texted me a link to something on YT to watch. I got the “I have relatives/friends in UKraine and Russia that are telling me very different things.” Putin fan all the way. I knew she was somewhat right leaning, but I had no idea just how much. Yikes.
Forgot to mention about friend going off about Nazis in UKraine. Yikes.
Why would they bother polling people about something that has zero chance of happening.
They didn't. They polled people about overall American attitudes on multiple aspects of the Ukraine/Russia conflict. The part I quoted was just a small, yet interesting part of the overall poll and tied in neatly with Rob's odd concept of honor and nobility.
I've always maintained I would fight against any hostile forces invading this country to the best of my ability.
I've also long said that there are countries that would better suit me, and that I'm sorry I didn't emigrate to one when I had the chance.
So the question, as silly as it was, caught me at a confluence.
Tradd, that's horrifying. I guess "true believers" know no boundaries. How does she explain the coverage? "Crisis actors?" Anyone who has paid the slightest attention to Putin's history sees him for the ruthless dictator (and facile liar) he is.
Why would they bother polling people about something that has zero chance of happening. If anyone is going to start a war with us it’s not going to be soldiers and tanks moving down Main Street USA.
So it would seem, but the longer I live the less certain I am about discounting the “zero chance” possibility. Who would have thought we’d be celebrating German rearmament? Or that there would be a Trump administration? Or that the Cubs would win a World Series? History can often mock complacency in bloody ways.
Nor do I much credit polls about hypotheticals. I suspect that in a real “Red Dawn” situation behaviors would be quite different. A lot of F-150s with “These Colors Don’t Run” bumper stickers would be turbo-boosting toward Ensenada or Moose Jaw. A lot of Priuses with “Coexist” stickers would be silently hurrying to the sound of the guns with IEDs in their NPR totes. These sorts of questions tend to encourage cheap bluster and passive-aggressive sneering.
So it would seem, but the longer I live the less certain I am about discounting the “zero chance” possibility. Who would have thought we’d be celebrating German rearmament? Or that there would be a Trump administration? Or that the Cubs would win a World Series? History can often mock complacency in bloody ways.
Nor do I much credit polls about hypotheticals. I suspect that in a real “Red Dawn” situation behaviors would be quite different. A lot of F-150s with “These Colors Don’t Run” bumper stickers would be turbo-boosting toward Ensenada or Moose Jaw. A lot of Priuses with “Coexist” stickers would be silently hurrying to the sound of the guns with IEDs in their NPR totes. These sorts of questions tend to encourage cheap bluster and passive-aggressive sneering.
I couldn't agree more with this. Perfectly said.
flowerseverywhere
3-27-22, 6:26am
Not sure, it was a Quinnipiac University poll, you can find the results here: 3/7/22 - Vast Majority Of Americans Say Ban Russian Oil, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Nearly 8 In 10 Support U.S. Military Response If Putin Attacks A NATO Country | Quinnipiac University Poll (https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3838)
An excerpt from their results: WHAT WOULD AMERICANS DO?
"As the world witnesses what is happening to Ukraine, Americans were asked what they would do if they were in the same position as Ukrainians are now: stay and fight or leave the country? A majority (55 percent) say they would stay and fight, while 38 percent say they would leave the country. Republicans say 68 - 25 percent and independents say 57 - 36 percent they would stay and fight, while Democrats say 52 - 40 percent they would leave the country."
They surveyed 1,374 adults who actually answered the phone. Out of hundreds of millions of us. Despite the fact this is a highly regarded poll, I have lost all faith in polling recently as I have the news. It seems to me a bizarre question which only serves to polarize us. We are all Americans after all. Can you tell how much I hate the generalizations such as Republicans are racist, democrats want open borders, blah blah. it really is sad we are not coming together against the real enemies and instead claiming warfare on each other. We are playing right into the hands of our foes by allowing them to divide and conquer us.
I certainly would be of no use to the fight as a 70+ YO woman who has never touched a gun. Of course I might be of use if I stayed but the situation in Ukraine is so vastly different due to their geography.
A woman I know has a sister in Poland who is taking in refugees as they move towards relatives and gives them a place to shower, Some matresses on a floor of her house to spend the night and hot meals and supplies to move on. so far it has been the old, the very young and their mothers.
All I do know is a bunch of us Regardless of political party that are sending her money and she is buying supplies to help them move to safety.
By the way I identify as an independent and have voted for Republican and Democrat presidents during my lifetime.
Had a very disturbing conversation with a friend last night. Friend is of mostly Russian background, but has some Ukrainian heritage, as well. Her brother is married to a woman from Ukraine. Sister in law only had one remaining immediate relative alive - her mother - who goes back and forth her between the US and UKraine. I asked if SIL’s mother was in the US Indefinitely. Friend told me SIL’s mother lives south of Chernobyl in the middle of nowhere, has seen no fighting, and sees absolutely no reason to leave. She had been in the US over the winter but returned shortly before the Russians invaded. I was told SIL has an uncle who is refusing to fight for Ukraine but is defending his property from looters - not Russians, but the average citizens who had been handed guns and were now looting since they never had very much and are now taking whatever they can.
Friend then launched into conspiracy level stuff - Putin doesn’t want to hurt the average Ukrainians. He’s going slow to given them their time to surrender, etc. Plus a whole bunch of stuff that was weapons grade conspiracy theory stuff. The US and Europe are going to pay for what they’ve done so far and it would become apparent within a few years. She was telling me not to pay attention to what’s going on in the mainstream media and texted me a link to something on YT to watch. I got the “I have relatives/friends in UKraine and Russia that are telling me very different things.” Putin fan all the way. I knew she was somewhat right leaning, but I had no idea just how much. Yikes.
That is absolutely disturbing. However I wonder if we have raised the bar pretty high for the Ukraine population. Were this in the United States I could still picture a small group running out of stores with looted large screen TVs. And case in point, how many would believe authoritarian generated state propaganda and conspiracy falsehoods, as in stop the steal. In one of Putin's early speeches he used the ploy of weapons of mass destruction being hid in the Ukraine. It sounded sort of familiar.
Then there’s Biden’s apparently off the cuff remark that Putin can’t remain in power. The sec’y of state had to agree with the Russian gov’t statement that it’s their choice if Putin remains in power.
But I think Blinken should have added that the Russian people aren’t actually given a choice for president.
That is absolutely disturbing. However I wonder if we have raised the bar pretty high for the Ukraine population. Were this in the United States I could still picture a small group running out of stores with looted large screen TVs. And case in point, how many would believe authoritarian generated state propaganda and conspiracy falsehoods, as in stop the steal. In one of Putin's early speeches he used the ploy of weapons of mass destruction being hid in the Ukraine. It sounded sort of familiar.
It doesn’t help that the US President fuels Russian propaganda with gaffes like “Putin has to go” or tells US troops how much they will appreciate the Ukrainian people “when you’re there”.
They surveyed 1,374 adults who actually answered the phone. Out of hundreds of millions of us. Despite the fact this is a highly regarded poll, I have lost all faith in polling recently as I have the news. It seems to me a bizarre question which only serves to polarize us. We are all Americans after all. Can you tell how much I hate the generalizations such as Republicans are racist, democrats want open borders, blah blah. it really is sad we are not coming together against the real enemies and instead claiming warfare on each other. We are playing right into the hands of our foes by allowing them to divide and conquer us.
I certainly would be of no use to the fight as a 70+ YO woman who has never touched a gun. Of course I might be of use if I stayed but the situation in Ukraine is so vastly different due to their geography.
A woman I know has a sister in Poland who is taking in refugees as they move towards relatives and gives them a place to shower, Some matresses on a floor of her house to spend the night and hot meals and supplies to move on. so far it has been the old, the very young and their mothers.
All I do know is a bunch of us Regardless of political party that are sending her money and she is buying supplies to help them move to safety.
By the way I identify as an independent and have voted for Republican and Democrat presidents during my lifetime.
Flowers, thank you for this post. A voice of compassion, sanity and reason is refreshing. I have just finished reading The Choice and The Gift by Dr. Edith Eger recommending it whole heartedly. Yes, this book review does belong on this forum. I will now step back into the observer role.
I don't know how a poll in Russia could be accurate. A news report I heard said that almost a hundred percent of the older Russian generations believed in Putin's spin of things, but it was only around forty per cent for the younger generations with access to digital and social media. My first impression of the Putin has to go comment was that he had to go by the means of the Russian people. Sensationalist global media obviously had a different take.
ToomuchStuff
3-27-22, 10:24am
I don't know how a poll in Russia could be accurate. A news report I heard said that almost a hundred percent of the older Russian generations believed in Putin's spin of things, but it was only around forty per cent for the younger generations with access to digital and social media. My first impression of the Putin has to go comment was that he had to go by the means of the Russian people. Sensationalist global media obviously had a different take.
Was out picking up some stuff for work yesterday, NPR had some story about a former Russian, who started a software company over here, and uses Russian programmers. She got her business partner and 3 other people out, but has 35 employee's over there yet.
Any talk of antiwar sentiment, gets you locked up. FSB taking your phones and searching them, etc. Older generations, lived through the keep your thoughts to yourself thing.
Russia runs a formidable worldwide propaganda machine:
https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-propaganda-disinformation-rt/
Its purpose is to destabilize the West by dividing and inflaming their citizenry.
ApatheticNoMore
3-27-22, 11:32am
Russia runs a formidable worldwide propaganda machine
I don't doubt it runs a formidable wordlwide propaganda machine, but then so does the U.S.. Best not to believe either entirely probably is frankly my perspective. Best to believe they will try to manipulate you for ends you don't know regardless probably. Pox on both their houses, live your life.
Its purpose is to destabilize the West by dividing and inflaming their citizenry.
then again there are just as likely to be other forces doing the same. Like you destabilize people just so they can't act on something that effects your profits, let's say pollution as an example. Or take climate change, though unlike local pollution that's a big complex problem, but it wasn't Russia that sowed doubt there, though they may have their interests as well, it was some of the most profitable companies in America like Exxon Mobile. So I tend to believe that diving and inflaming for narrow profit interests is much of what is going on. And no Russians are even needed to explain it. But what if those who wish to destabilize by dividing and inflaming for the sake of narrow profit combine with Russian propaganda? Then you have the modern Republican party I guess :laff:
It seems our propaganda machine isn't up to world standards. We can't even properly propagandize our own citizens.
gimmethesimplelife
3-27-22, 3:10pm
It seems our propaganda machine isn't up to world standards. We can't even properly propagandize our own citizens.LOL I sure don't buy into much of US propaganda. Rob
happystuff
3-27-22, 3:27pm
Its purpose is to destabilize the West by dividing and inflaming their citizenry.
We, as a country, don't seem to need anyone else to do this - we are doing a fine job of it on our own.
We, as a country, don't seem to need anyone else to do this - we are doing a fine job of it on our own.
Well, I think we get plenty of help.
Did you notice the straight-outta-Russia Qanon nonsense on full display during the hearings on the most recent Supreme Court nominee the other day?
happystuff
3-27-22, 3:46pm
Well, I think we get plenty of help.
Did you notice the straight-outta-Russia Qanon nonsense on full display during the hearings on the most recent Supreme Court nominee the other day?
That's just it... if not from Russia, the nonsense would have come straight outta somewhere else. My point is that it is not so much from where, but what we do with it as a country. We ARE divided and pulling stuff from everywhere and anywhere, instead of ignoring the nonsense and choosing to come together. (Again, not an easy topic, so I hope my point came across.)
ApatheticNoMore
3-27-22, 4:53pm
Someday someone will have to tell me the relation of Murdoch and his media "empire" the Russian empire. As that has been destroying this country for a long time and every country it touches. But where to even start. We didn't start the fire ...
Well, I think we get plenty of help.
Did you notice the straight-outta-Russia Qanon nonsense on full display during the hearings on the most recent Supreme Court nominee the other day?
I noticed that the insidiously evil Republicans seemed to have covertly brainwashed the nominee into talking like a constitutional originalist.
Well, I think we get plenty of help.
Did you notice the straight-outta-Russia Qanon nonsense on full display during the hearings on the most recent Supreme Court nominee the other day?
I noticed a pack of jackals figuratively trying to tear apart an eminently qualified, history-making nominee in an attempt, apparently, to drag her down to their level. Their pointless churlishness probably won't derail her, but it certainly left many of us appalled. Yes the QAnon nonsense was on full display.
I noticed a pack of jackals figuratively trying to tear apart an eminently qualified, history-making nominee in an attempt, apparently, to drag her down to their level. Their pointless churlishness probably won't derail her, but it certainly left many of us appalled.
I felt the same way watching the Kavanaugh and Barrett hearings. Out of curiosity, what makes this one different?
Kavanaugh was credibly accused of sexual assault, and the 4500 tips the FBI received re his behavior were never investigated. Also. his whiny, erratic behavior suggested he doesn't have the self-discipline for the job. What was it about the Coney-Barrett hearings that offended you? She was what we used to call a "jet job" in that her resume was extremely thin and she was rocketed to the front of the line. But she was a darling of the Federalist Society, so...
But but, surely it’s just as credible to assume that the current nominee is somehow involved in the child pedo ring that Hillary and George Soros are running out of the nonexistent basement of a pizza parlour in dc? Isn’t it?
But but, surely it’s just as credible to assume that the current nominee is somehow involved in the child pedo ring that Hillary and George Soros are running out of the nonexistent basement of a pizza parlour in dc? Isn’t it?
Perhaps the current nominee should have started crying and talked about beer.
Kavanaugh was credibly accused of sexual assault, and the 4500 tips the FBI received re his behavior were never investigated. Also. his whiny, erratic behavior suggested he doesn't have the self-discipline for the job.
I'm sure it seemed credible to everyone who wanted to believe it. It's too bad the accuser couldn't come up with a witness, a confidant she mentioned the event to or even a location where it occurred. True credibility does require a smidgen or two of evidence.
What was it about the Coney-Barrett hearings that offended you? Oh, I wasn't so much offended as amused at the attempts to brand her as a religious fanatic intent on damaging women's freedom through mandated childbearing, complete with Handmaid's Tale cos-players hanging out on the steps of the Supreme Court.
I'm sure it seemed credible to everyone who wanted to believe it. It's too bad the accuser couldn't come up with a witness, a confidant she mentioned the event to or even a location where it occurred. True credibility does require a smidgen or two of evidence.
Oh, I wasn't so much offended as amused at the attempts to brand her as a religious fanatic intent on damaging women's freedom through mandated childbearing, complete with Handmaid's Tale cos-players hanging out on the steps of the Supreme Court.
I believe she is a religious fanatic of The Handmaid's Tale ilk, but then I'm disheartened that religious affiliation is still a factor, and that somehow we haven't had even one non-believer on the bench in my memory. As far as Kavanaugh is concerned, probably if Trump's FBI had done their job, there would be a lot more evidence of his unfitness.
At any rate, Judge Jackson has impeccable credentials, and exhibited near-superhuman restraint in the face of insulting Republican efforts to dirty her up.
I'm sure it seemed credible to everyone who wanted to believe it. It's too bad the accuser couldn't come up with a witness, a confidant she mentioned the event to or even a location where it occurred. True credibility does require a smidgen or two of evidence.
Oh, I wasn't so much offended as amused at the attempts to brand her as a religious fanatic intent on damaging women's freedom through mandated childbearing, complete with Handmaid's Tale cos-players hanging out on the steps of the Supreme Court.
It will be interesting to see if she behaves ethically as she wrote about when she was a younger lawyer or if the trappings of power cause her to cast her ethics aside and use her religious beliefs in decisions involving abortion and the death penalty.
I read this book last week and found it helpful:
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41qIlO0H15L.jpg
But but, surely it’s just as credible to assume that the current nominee is somehow involved in the child pedo ring that Hillary and George Soros are running out of the nonexistent basement of a pizza parlour in dc? Isn’t it?
Their obsession with pedophilia (not to mention cannibalism) is striking, to say the least.
At any rate, Judge Jackson has impeccable credentials, and exhibited near-superhuman restraint in the face of insulting Republican efforts to dirty her up.
To be fair we’re talking about republicans that don’t even have the reading comprehension skills necessary to understand a children’s book. They really didn’t stand much of a chance of success.
At any rate, Judge Jackson has impeccable credentials,....
Well, I'm sorry, but...she went to Harvard. I mean, really! Well, at least it wasn't Yale.
KCLS has an available copy of the audiobook, so I have it in Overdrive.
Well, I'm sorry, but...she went to Harvard. I mean, really! Well, at least it wasn't Yale.
Clearly, you've found her Achilles' Heel. :D
iris lilies
3-27-22, 9:38pm
I'm sure it seemed credible to everyone who wanted to believe it. It's too bad the accuser couldn't come up with a witness, a confidant she mentioned the event to or even a location where it occurred. True credibility does require a smidgen or two of evidence.
Oh, I wasn't so much offended as amused at the attempts to brand her as a religious fanatic intent on damaging women's freedom through mandated childbearing, complete with Handmaid's Tale cos-players hanging out on the steps of the Supreme Court.
Alan, I am sorry you were not convinced of Amy’s CB’s incompetence on the bench. You will remember that her “colleagues” gathered a petition among themselves to protest her appointment to the bench. Those colleagues were university librarians. Because they know everything and would of course be intimately familiar with her judicial record and professional practice.
/sarcasm
I saw at least one mainstream media report call these yo-yos her “colleagues. “
ToomuchStuff
3-27-22, 10:16pm
but then I'm disheartened that religious affiliation is still a factor, and that somehow we haven't had even one non-believer on the bench in my memory.
Not sure we haven't had a non believer. Publicly saying one thing, is not the same as believing it, nor is believing in religion the same as believing in a deity.
Not sure we haven't had a non believer. Publicly saying one thing, is not the same as believing it, nor is believing in religion the same as believing in a deity.
I would suspect that we’ve had a lot, or at least a few, non believers who claimed to be believers because it was politically expedient. And as we learned from the last president it’s not even necessary that they ever attended church or behaved in the way one would expect of a believer. All they need to do is put ‘true believers’ on the Supreme Court so that the rest of us will have their beliefs crammed down our throats with their decisions.
I believe the very first Senate confirmation hearings for a Supreme Court nominee were held in 1916, when President Woodrow Wilson (Princeton) nominated Louis Brandeis (Harvard) to the Court. Apparently Brandeis had planned poorly and wasn't Christian.
Before that shocking nomination, I don't think they had hearings.
At any rate, Judge Jackson has impeccable credentials, and exhibited near-superhuman restraint in the face of insulting Republican efforts to dirty her up.
I'm disappointed that Republicans in recent years have started treating Democratic nominees in the same manner Democrats have treated Republican nominees for at least the last four decades. I'd like to see them do better.
I'm disappointed that Republicans in recent years have started treating Democratic nominees in the same manner Democrats have treated Republican nominees for at least the last four decades. I'd like to see them do better.
Which Republican appointment 40 years ago first triggered this opinion?
Which Republican nominee 40 years ago first triggered this opinion?
The first one I noticed was about 35 years ago, Robert Bork, can't speak for prior nominees since we didn't have 24 hour a day news coverage and cameras in every hearing. I think Bork may have been the victim of the first Senate approved performance art exhibit, followed a few years later by Clarence Thomas's high tech lynching.
The first one I noticed was about 35 years ago, Robert Bork.
So you were cool with his opinion that southern states should be able to prevent blacks from voting? If that’s what the ‘states rights’ folks are going to hang their hat on they shouldn’t be surprised why the rest of us consider the Republican Party to be the white supremecist party. We all understand exactly what ‘states rights’ actually means to republicans.
. We all understand exactly what ‘states rights’ actually means to republicans.
No, I don't think you do.
We also understand that Bork didn’t fail just because of democrats. Only 40 republicans were willing to go full racist back then. Today I assume he would’ve gotten a 100% republican yes vote for his racism from republicans.
I always thought that “credibly accused”, at least in the context used here, was a weasel term people use to try to add a little gravitas to unsubstantiated allegations. Sort of like “fake but accurate”. The credibility depends on the credulity of the listener.
I always thought that “credibly accused”, at least in the context used here, was a weasel term people use to try to add a little gravitas to unsubstantiated allegations. Sort of like “fake but accurate”. The credibility depends on the credulity of the listener.
Again, if the FBI had done its job, we would probably know for sure.
My daily humor a few days ago were headlines saying the GOP promised not to make a circus out of the nomination. Then the clowns showed up. When you open the article, there's a photo of Ted Cruz
Again, if the FBI had done its job, we would probably know for sure.
Or they could have expended as many man hours as the Mueller investigation and come up with similar results. But even then, I doubt the true believers would be satisfied.
That’s why these hearings are more performative than informative. The only fact actually revealed here was that the nominee is not a biologist.
We also learned the fact that several republican senators are shamelessly willing to spew the Qanonsense about all democrats being pedophiles if they think it will play well with their voters.
iris lilies
3-28-22, 11:57am
We also learned the fact that several republican senators are shamelessly willing to spew the Qanonsense about all democrats being pedophiles if they think it will play well with their voters.
oh! I didn’t know it was ALL Democrats!
Guess I’d better check my Q anon subscription to make sure it’s up-to-date
I heard a new term recently for the practice of identifying the looniest possible member of a group and trying to generalize their craziness to the entire group: “nut-picking”. Sort of a variation on “cherry-picking”.
Senator Haw Haw Hawley is probably as loony toons as Marjorie Taylor Greene and may actually believe the Qanonsense. Ted Cruz, on the other hand, isn't loony. He's just playing to his base. Who knows, maybe going full Karen on the United staff at the Bozeman airport was just playing to his base too.
The hearings last week didn't seem to really be about the supreme court at all. It appeared to be more about republicans expressing their midterm election strategy which seems to be opposing interracial marriage, opposing gay marriage, and opposing contraception. Baselessly accusing the next supreme court justice of being part of the imagined democratic pedo ring was just a side benefit for them. The polling numbers on these topics aren't really in their favor by a wide margin so beyond whipping up excitement among their base I find this a curious strategy. Whipping up the base was trump's strategy from start to finish and we all know how well that worked out for him.
I was chatting with a local guy about diving on a scuba forum. We share the same instructor. He mentioned he was going to be back and forth overseas. I asked him where and he told me somewhere in Russia’s Far East. When I commented that was an interesting destination, especially with current events, he got downright frothing at the mouth. Dude is late 20s for reference. Married to a Russian, supposedly owns a company there, lived there a lot. The US has always been fed a wrong narrative about Russia. Blah blah blah.
“Dude, you’re a baby. I’m 53 and well remember the Cold War from the late 70s on.” I asked him if he had any issue with all the civilians being slaughtered in Ukraine, especially women and children who were trying to flee. Crickets. No answer.
iris lilies
4-20-22, 10:34pm
I was chatting with a local guy about diving on a scuba forum. We share the same instructor. He mentioned he was going to be back and forth overseas. I asked him where and he told me somewhere in Russia’s Far East. When I commented that was an interesting destination, especially with current events, he got downright frothing at the mouth. Dude is late 20s for reference. Married to a Russian, supposedly owns a company there, lived there a lot. The US has always been fed a wrong narrative about Russia. Blah blah blah.
“Dude, you’re a baby. I’m 53 and well remember the Cold War from the late 70s on.” I asked him if he had any issue with all the civilians being slaughtered in Ukraine, especially women and children who were trying to flee. Crickets. No answer.
They are being told Russians were being slaughtered in the Ukraine.
i know Vladimir has many supporters among his people, quite a majority approve of him.
They are being told Russians were being slaughtered in the Ukraine.
i know Vladimir has many supporters among his people, quite a majority approve of him.
He currently lives in the US so has access to news here. Oh yes I know what Russians are being fed.
It's beginning to be clear to me that a lot of Russians deserve Putin. I hope the 30% or so that see through his propaganda are able to effect change or emigrate.
It's beginning to be clear to me that a lot of Russians deserve Putin. I hope the 30% or so that see through his propaganda are able to effect change or emigrate.
Yep! There are also some countries that just don’t seem to have the national mindset for self governance. Dictator needed.
Yep! There are also some countries that just don’t seem to have the national mindset for self governance. Dictator needed.
You see a lot of that from the Russian fanboys/trolls from various African countries who are advocating for Ukrainian surrender.
Teacher Terry
4-21-22, 2:21pm
Russia has no independent media so state tv lies to them. I certainly don’t blame the people.
Russia has no independent media so state tv lies to them. I certainly don’t blame the people.
True enough. They are just following orders when engaging in what seem to be war crimes in Ukraine.
Russia has no independent media so state tv lies to them. I certainly don’t blame the people.
There were some alternative media sources, but they were recently silenced. Many of the associated journalists are in exile now. Navalny and others have tried to open the eyes of the willfully blind--you can tell by man in the street interviews that not all Russians are buying the lies about Nazis overrunning Ukraine. Most others are clearly "true believers."
gimmethesimplelife
4-23-22, 4:38pm
They are being told Russians were being slaughtered in the Ukraine.
i know Vladimir has many supporters among his people, quite a majority approve of him.He also seems to have full or close to it control of what the peons hear and judge him by. I still maintain the average Russian living in a small apartment and dealing with sanctions/extreme price increases/fearing severe ruble depreciation does not welcome events since February 24th - if they knew the facts. Rob
As near as my news following gets, it look like Ukraine may be a major talking point in 2024. Maybe there was a time when most of the GOP was on board with military assistance, but there is a turning tide with some saying it's gone on too long with few signs of advancement and costs too much. A popular solution I've heard is for the Ukraine to cede some territory in exchange for some sort of peace offering . I don't know where their pack leader, Donald stands but he is probably a moving target anyway. My Tumpster sort of friend argues something like 40 billion or more so far to one of the most corrupt governments in Europe.
60 minutes did a feature last night with Lindsey Graham and Liz Warren actually walking side-by-side and both in agreement for U.S. support. As much as a person can trust such things, they interviewed soldiers and government officials who gave a convincing defense on the traceability of US funds and little evidence of someone siphoning off funds for personal benefit. It seems like when the news starts throwing out numbers in the millions or billions it has an emotional impact, but they claim the money going to the Ukraine is only 5% of the total military budget. Lindsey said some thing like, if we don't stop Russia here, they are going to keep going for more.
My concern is when we first became involved it was guns and ammo, then rocket launchers, then F-16's and Bradley fighting vehicles, and now long range missiles. Rumor today was a missile strike may have killed a Russian navel leader. And who knows what Russia and China are cooking up under the table. I don't know if I would change anything, but I could start to feel a little uneasy.
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