View Full Version : Doing Enough For Ukraine?
gimmethesimplelife
4-9-22, 9:29pm
Do you believe the Western World is doing enough to support Ukraine? Where does the line get drawn - how much help is appropriate?
I ask these questions because I personally am amazed at the Ukranian people - such courage and such resistance. And I myself have difficulty in gauging how much help should be given. Rob
No, we aren't.
Line? Well.... it's well past where we are now :-)
Yes.
Lots of countries suffer from horrific war. Ukraine is getting a lot of attention because the people are white.
What about all these other countries in the map in the link below? If we gave up our Saudi oil (like we want Europe to give up Russian oil) we could bring peace to Yemen. But we won't.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-currently-at-war
I don't think so, but my impulse is either to drop a nuke on Putin, or send Rob on a secret mission to Moscow. :~)
Though I'm a veteran of anti-war demonstrations, my red line is invasion.
We have a stake in keeping Europe safe and democratic.
We have a stake in keeping Europe safe and democratic.
I agree. I'm irritated by the politics of this entire situation, not only our country's confusing and spineless refusal to give fighter jets to Ukraine unless they could get some other country to be the middleman, but also NATO's refusal to do the very thing it was founded to do, that being protecting Europe from Russia. We western democracies need to man up.
Yes.
Lots of countries suffer from horrific war. Ukraine is getting a lot of attention because the people are white.
What about all these other countries in the map in the link below? If we gave up our Saudi oil (like we want Europe to give up Russian oil) we could bring peace to Yemen. But we won't.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-currently-at-war
How is Yemen our responsibility? Or Myanmar? Or half of Africa?
I'm all for giving up Saudi oil at the earliest possible opportunity in the name of energy independence, though.
Teacher Terry
4-10-22, 2:30pm
Totally agree Alan.
Yes.
Lots of countries suffer from horrific war. Ukraine is getting a lot of attention because the people are white.
...
What about all these other countries ...
"What-about-ism".
Right out of Russian state media. Not surprising.
"What-about-ism".
Right out of Russian state media. Not surprising.
Funny you should say this--beside "Zelenskyy the comedian," "Western media lies," "Ukraine should just surrender," and all the rest of the BS peddled by what I call "the Royal Nigerian Putin Defense Battalion," "what about Yemen, Syria, Burkina Faso..." is a recurring theme on social media.
Why is it only white people are entitled to safety and democracy?
Why is it only white people are entitled to safety and democracy?
That is what is commonly known as a non sequitur.
People everywhere should be safe, and democracy should be available to everyone, if desired.
gimmethesimplelife
4-10-22, 4:54pm
I don't think so, but my impulse is either to drop a nuke on Putin, or send Rob on a secret mission to Moscow. :~)
Though I'm a veteran of anti-war demonstrations, my red line is invasion.
We have a stake in keeping Europe safe and democratic.Secret mission to Moscow? I honestly have no idea what to make of Russia these days. OTOH we have the brutality of Mr. Putin and his yes stamp team/Russian military. OTOH there has been a slight stream of informed Russians fleeing their country - just like in WW2 Germany, there were some scattered Germans that fled. Beyond this I have a hard time believing that the average Russian citizen wants WW3. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-10-22, 5:02pm
I agree. I'm irritated by the politics of this entire situation, not only our country's confusing and spineless refusal to give fighter jets to Ukraine unless they could get some other country to be the middleman, but also NATO's refusal to do the very thing it was founded to do, that being protecting Europe from Russia. We western democracies need to man up.The problem as I see it is - as of yet, Putin and his henchmen have not struck a NATO country. It's as if right now there is a fine line to navigate to prevent further escalation into a NATO country, thereby making WW3 inevitable with the possibility of nuclear war.
I'd like to think that Putin realizes he can not win a nuclear war - would not the US and other NATO countries strike back? Right now both sides are perched on the edge of escalation. I pray that nothing happens to push either side too far.
Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-10-22, 5:06pm
One of my life goals I've never posted here is to be granted a Russian tourist visa to check out Leningrad. Not happening now methinks. My scrawny American bod and US passport are persona non grata in the Russian Federation these days.
At least there are secondhand travel books and the Internet - probably the closest I'll be getting to Leningrad any time soon. Rob
One of my life goals I've never posted here is to be granted a Russian tourist visa to check out Leningrad. Not happening now methinks. My scrawny American bod and US passport are persona non grata in the Russian Federation these days.
At least there are secondhand travel books and the Internet - probably the closest I'll be getting to Leningrad any time soon. Rob
They don’t call it Leningrad anymore. I think today it’s St Petersburg.
gimmethesimplelife
4-10-22, 5:20pm
They don’t call it Leningrad anymore. I think today it’s St Petersburg.Fair enough. I call it Leningrad in honor.of the small Lenin statue I bought in Hungary in 1987. It's supposed to be an amazing city full of art and culture and history. Rob
Secret mission to Moscow? I honestly have no idea what to make of Russia these days. OTOH we have the brutality of Mr. Putin and his yes stamp team/Russian military. OTOH there has been a slight stream of informed Russians fleeing their country - just like in WW2 Germany, there were some scattered Germans that fled. Beyond this I have a hard time believing that the average Russian citizen wants WW3. Rob
Senator Lindsey Graham (sp?), a well known conservative was quoted as saying assassination is the only fix here. Gotta say - this one time on this one issue, I agree 100 percent. Rob But you assured us you wouldn't do the deed...
Fair enough. I call it Leningrad in honor.of the small Lenin statue I bought in Hungary in 1987. It's supposed to be an amazing city full of art and culture and history. Rob
There's a great big statue of Lenin here in the Fremont neighborhood, a few blocks from the famous Troll statue and Waiting for thr Interurban.
gimmethesimplelife
4-10-22, 5:29pm
Senator Lindsey Graham (sp?), a well known conservative was quoted as saying assassination is the only fix here. Gotta say - this one time on this one issue, I agree 100 percent. Rob But you assured us you wouldn't do the deed...No, no I wouldn't do it, personally. Rob
There's a great big statue of Lenin here in the Fremont neighborhood, a few blocks from the famous Troll statue and Waiting for thr Interurban.
I understand that in many parts of the world, people are painting the hands of Lenin statutes red.
gimmethesimplelife
4-10-22, 5:31pm
There's a great big statue of Lenin here in the Fremont neighborhood, a few blocks from the famous Troll statue and Waiting for thr Interurban.YES! I've seen it before. At one time I was long distance dating - I was in Portland, he was in Seattle - and every other weekend for awhile I would Amtrak it up to Puget Sound. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-10-22, 5:33pm
I understand that in many parts of the world, people are painting the hands of Lenin statutes red.I would go so far as to say this is appropriate. Ukraine did nothing to provoke this brutal, senseless war. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-10-22, 5:44pm
I just read an email from Astrid in Vienna. It seems the new Austrian Chancellor will be meeting with Mr. Putin tomorrow - I guess to diplomatically talk some sense into Herr Putin. I am pleased to see Austria taking a life matters/positive role in this conflict. Turkey and it's leader Erdogan have also stepped into this role, though given that Turkey is becoming more authoritarian and unstable by the day this is a bit hypocritical. Rob
iris lilies
4-10-22, 5:53pm
Senator Lindsey Graham (sp?), a well known conservative was quoted as saying assassination is the only fix here. Gotta say - this one time on this one issue, I agree 100 percent. Rob But you assured us you wouldn't do the deed...
And the propaganda would blame United States, further ginning up the hatred of both populace entities towards one another. Putin has good support from his people.
Before we nuke ‘em we gotta hate ‘em. And I intend that for both sides or all sides if there’s more than two.
They don’t call it Leningrad anymore. I think today it’s St Petersburg.
I almost took the ferry from Helsinki to St. Petersburg just 3-4 years ago. They had all the necessary visa/sponsor stuff available right at the harbor in Helsinki, it would have been easy. I had arrived thinking it was difficult and a paperwork bother, so I didn't have time in my schedule to pull it off. I suspect I won't get the opportunity again for ages, since Russia may be more troublesome to visit for the next however-many years :-(
How many people so anti-Putin now cared when he was butchering brown Syrians including with chemical weapons?
gimmethesimplelife
4-10-22, 6:43pm
How many people so anti-Putin now cared when he was butchering brown Syrians including with chemical weapons?You have a point. Of course what happened in Syria is horrific, no denying that. As soon as chaos spread closer to Austria BOOM I woke up and took notice. I really don't like this about myself though I certainly have nothing against Muslims per se.
I don't know how this is going to end out and I'm not sure the West and/Putin know, either. Rob
How many people so anti-Putin now cared when he was butchering brown Syrians including with chemical weapons?
I took note of Putin's treatment of his "enemies"--like Alexander Litvinenko, whom he poisoned with polonium in 2006, and my assessment of him has only deepened over the years. He's a murderous psychopath, IMO.
How many people so anti-Putin now cared when he was butchering brown Syrians including with chemical weapons?
Are we now required to allocate our outrage along racial/geographic lines? So much each for Uighurs, Tibetans, Rohingya? Equity in where our sympathies must be directed?
How many people so anti-Putin now cared when he was butchering brown Syrians including with chemical weapons?
Bashar al-Assad, the tyrant who runs Syria, invited Putin to send his army of dolts and brutes to quash a rebellion of Syrians who rightly balked at being ruled by a cruel dictator. Care all you want, but we didn't have a place in that fight. (We had no business in Iraq or Afghanistan either; maybe we learned that lesson.)
I found this fascinating: "Al-Assad in Arabic means "the Lion". Assad's paternal grandfather, Ali Sulayman al-Assad, had managed to change his status from peasant to minor notable and, to reflect this, in 1927 he had changed the family name from Wahsh (meaning "Savage") to Al-Assad." (Wikipedia)
Parenthetically, none of the Syrian-Americans I've known have been persons of color, but I realize that's a pretty loosely defined category.
Are we now required to allocate our outrage along racial/geographic lines? So much each for Uighurs, Tibetans, Rohingya? Equity in where our sympathies must be directed?
No, we should have sympathies with everyone, and not have a fixed amount of sympathy to allocate. Resources are another story - they are not infinite, and I would rather they be used domestically.
I recently read The Border by a woman who circled Russia and wrote about its history. The conflict with its neighbors has been unending. It's like the Middle East. It's never going to end. This could be another Vietnam, or Afghanistan.
No, we should have sympathies with everyone, and not have a fixed amount of sympathy to allocate.
Realistically, I think everyone has some limit on their capacity for genuine compassion.
Unrealistically, I think pretending you do and assuming that qualifies you to call others on it is one of the emptier gestures in the virtue-signaling playbook.
ApatheticNoMore
4-11-22, 3:00pm
People may have limits to their sympathies, it may be first them and the people they know and care about, maybe then their city, location, state, country. See that's not that hard to understand.
However, Ukraine is none of these to most Americans, so why some crises get the attention and others don't is an open question.
However, Ukraine is none of these to most Americans, so why some crises get the attention and others don't is an open question.
If the people are white then they get more attention. Ukrainians are white.
It's like missing persons cases. Think Gabby Petito - young, white, pretty - lots of attention. The many women of color who go missing each year - largely ignored.
No, we should have sympathies with everyone, and not have a fixed amount of sympathy to allocate. Resources are another story - they are not infinite, and I would rather they be used domestically.
I recently read The Border by a woman who circled Russia and wrote about its history. The conflict with its neighbors has been unending. It's like the Middle East. It's never going to end. This could be another Vietnam, or Afghanistan.
Sympathies without resources to assist are as worthless as all the stupid thoughts and prayers that get thrown around after every big shooting event.
Sympathies without resources to assist are as worthless as all the stupid thoughts and prayers that get thrown around after every big shooting event.
You say you're an atheist, but you see yourself as a Christ figure who is going to save the world. Maybe you could assassinate Putin since Rob's not going to.
Where the **** did you come up with that nonsense. I see myself as a citizen of the richest country on the planet. One that has an interest in seeing Russia fail in this war so that hopefully there won’t be any more future wars of Russian aggression. And that has an interest in supporting liberal democracies around the world. If that, in your mind, translates to ‘JP sees himself as a Christlike figure’ you need a shrink for far more than your OCD.
Where the **** did you come up with that nonsense. I see myself as a citizen of the richest country on the planet. One that has an interest in seeing Russia fail in this war so that hopefully there won’t be any more future wars of Russian aggression. And that has an interest in supporting liberal democracies around the world. If that, in your mind, translates to ‘JP sees himself as a Christlike figure’ you need a shrink for far more than your OCD.
So you're not Christ but Fauci is still a saint:
https://images.app.goo.gl/e4WQ4CLL1aYF5zhbA
So you're not Christ but Fauci is still a saint:
https://images.app.goo.gl/e4WQ4CLL1aYF5zhbA
Now you’re just being a mediocre troll. If you’re gonna strive to be a troll you should work to at least be entertaining.
With Jeppy, all roads lead to Fauci. Even Russian revanchists can bring us back to the mask obsession.
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