College Rankings

[LDAHL]

It is time for us to start planning.

Would you consider published college rankings to be:

Very useful?

A rough general guide?

Academic vanity projects not worth bothering with?

Worse that useless?

I personally have never taken schools attended into account for hiring decisions, except for the most notorious diploma mills. But so many people take them seriously I have to wonder.

[iris lilies]

It is time for us to start planning.

Would you consider published college rankings to be:

Very useful?

A rough general guide?

Academic vanity projects not worth bothering with?

Worse that useless?

I personally have never taken schools attended into account for hiring decisions, except for the most notorious diploma mills. But so many people take them seriously I have to wonder.

do in fact “many people take them seriously? “


But I applaud you for asking because while you are a bit younger than I am, we are probably of generation where other than Ivy League no one gives a shit. A solid GPA at state U is perfectly respectable. My actual undergrad degree is from a private college sorta known at the time as the party school for rich kids, but “rich kids” in the Midwest is a relative term. And I was a commuter student so none of that social stuff mattered and I cannot name one person I sat next to in class, not one.

I am old and out of the kid going to college loop to make a useful comment that reflects today’s environment.

[rosarugosa]

My former career was in HR at a Fortune 100 company in the financial services industry. In our major job families, hiring managers could only hire graduates from a "Competitive" school or better. If school was ranked competitive, grad needed a 3.5 GPA or better. If school was "Highly Competitive" or "Most Competitive," then a 3.0 or better was sufficient. It's become more of a seller's market since then, so I'm not sure if they've relaxed those standards at all in response.

[pinkytoe]

I worked on a grad school admissions committee at a major university and the undergrad school of applicants was high on the list for consideration.

[bae]

I think the first question is "what am I going to college for?" Is it to learn something specific? To get a credential? To impress people? To get a leg up in being hired? To party? To "find yourself"? Etc.

Once that has been thought through, you can sort through colleges.

My daughter in selecting her undergraduate institution had a specific course of study in mind, and it was only possible to accomplish that at a handful of institutions, so college rankings were of no concern to her. When I went to college, same deal.

[Yppej]

If I were to go back in time I probably would not go to college, even though I worked my way through and did not accrue student loan debt.

Except for a brief stint teaching no employer has ever cared.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Except for a brief stint teaching no employer has ever cared.

there is no way one can possibly know this. Like if they had submitted their resume without a degree it may have been rejected on spot. But this is the counter factual that they don't experience.

I mean there are ways to study this, there are stats, people have run experiments of other sorts like submitting resumes with an ethnic name, a woman's name, as an older person etc. (and often shown discrimination there, sigh). And discrimination based on degree status isn't even considered such, isn't illegal, is just considered a way to filter resumes, right or wrong.

[Yppej]

there is no way one can possibly know this. Like if they had submitted their resume without a degree it may have been rejected on spot. But this is the counter factual that they don't experience.

I mean there are ways to study this, there are stats, people have run experiments of other sorts like submitting resumes with an ethnic name, a woman's name, as an older person etc. (and often shown discrimination there, sigh). And discrimination based on degree status isn't even considered such, isn't illegal, is just considered a way to filter resumes, right or wrong.

When you work for a company and see many people in your department without the degree, including those higher ranking than you, some of them hired after you are so they are not legacy employees, you know.

[catherine]

I've heard it said that the benefit of seeking Ivy League degrees is the contacts you make. It's all about the connections.

I personally relate to the idea that course of study is the most important factor, but I think that's only if you are looking for a fairly uncommon course of study. In my case, I really wanted to be a costume designer and the only college in the country that offered costume design as a major was Emerson College in Boston. By the time I was making my choice I realized I wanted a college that had a lot to offer in ALL the things I was interested in, not just one.

As it turns out my career life started out at a fairly prestigious job I loved at NBC at 30 Rock. My credentials? An 8-week Entree program at Katharine Gibbs where it wan't my magna cum laude degree in English and Drama Criticism that got me the job, but my ability to type 90 words per minute and take memos using shorthand.

[dado potato]

I have a fondness for universities that emphasize co-op education. I believe there is a strong record of placement of graduating students in their chosen career. The university with the longest record of co-op education is Northeastern, with its main campus in Boston. (With my California grand-daughters in mind, I note that Northeastern has recently acquired Mills College in Oakland... I will be watching developments there.)

FWIW USN&WR ranks Northeastern University #49. But I would give it #1 due to outcomes for students who complete their higher education there.

[jp1]

Friends who went on to grad school have mostly said it mattered. Those who, like myself, didn’t have mostly felt that it didn’t matter. No employer has cared what college I went to, only that I went. And graduated. Some other people are impressed by the then quality of the football program but i didn’t really take that into account when choosing the school.

[LDAHL]

My kid wants to major in math, at least at this point. But I think it’s prudent to look at schools with a broad range of programs in the event he changes his mind. That would argue probably for a larger State school. I also think a larger, more impersonal school would be better preparation for life than some cozy little liberal arts school. Not being so well-heeled that we can subsidize any frivolous career choice, I would want to know something about employability after graduation. And if possible avoid the worst snowflake cultures out there.

Researching all this is a challenge.

[Rosemary]

in my opinion they fall into the category of "Academic vanity projects not worth bothering with" --- particularly with the news this year of a well-known institution stretching the truth substantially to move up in the USNews rankings.

When my child was looking at colleges (very recently), we made a spreadsheet - of selectivity in admissions, percent full-time faculty, student/faculty ratio, 4-year graduation rate, cost and average financial aid given, location and whether it was small/medium/large town/city/metro area, number of undergraduates, biggest pro, biggest con, whether they had particular activities of interest. Many colleges, or in the case of larger universities the individual departments, will publish data about the percentage of graduates who are employed in their field or in grad school within 6 months of graduation. We watched the online tours - this was covid time - and toured just the final choices in person, after admission. For many years we had gone to college campuses when it was convenient, so campus environments of all sizes were somewhat familiar. I do recommend in-person tours whenever possible.

Then the plan for major and minor changed and we did it all over again the next year. :)

It's ok, though - a lot was learned in that first year and great friends were made (and it was very cost-effective as college goes, due to a great scholarship). I'm sad about the social reset, difficult for an introvert, but it really was a good learning experience. First year was at a smallish liberal arts college switching to a large state university, so there will be a lot to compare... and I think there will be more career options with the new path.

[frugal-one]

Nice to see you again, Rosemary!