View Full Version : What happened on Jan 6, 2021?
Coup attempt? With or without any sort of support by elected officials or staff? Or military/police?
Tourists gone wild?
Nothing of concern? Or a deep danger to our nation?
Should anything be done as a result?
And so on.
Coup attempt instigated by FBI provocateurs, which is why they won't answer Ted Cruz's questions about it.
What should be done - clean house at the FBI for starters.
Coup attempt definitely instigated by The Former Guy. Traitors should be imprisoned.
Coup attempt. If it goes unpunished, it could mark the end of our system of laws.
The DOJ is watching. I hope that's not all it does.
"We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore," he (Trump) said.
Coup attempt instigated by FBI provocateurs, which is why they won't answer Ted Cruz's questions about it.
What should be done - clean house at the FBI for starters.
Hmm... that's a conspiracy theory I can't get behind. As the Dallas News said, "Cruz and others who promote the false flag theory have not explained why the FBI would be on both sides — hunting down rioters after encouraging sedition in an attempt prolong Trump’s presidency."
I think that the Cult of Trump see themselves as saviors (and Trump as JC himself) when it comes to preserving their notions of America, ie. a governance of White, Christian males, nostalgic for the old days when one could claim power by virtue of one's race and gender. I do believe that many of these CoT members have real and perceived losses they are trying to recoup, and acted out with the same emotional response that followers of Hitler did in the 30s.
They were stirred up when Trump gave noncommittal and implicit permission to storm the Capitol, and then the rioters saw themselves as Minute Men fighting for The People and I believe that while some had planned the attack, most impulsively got carried away with the moment.
I don't think anything is going to go much further than that, but I could be wrong. When people experience loss of identity, money and power, they start believing strange things. When those in power validate those strange beliefs (like scapegoating) and give sway to hostile attitudes, anything can happen. Trump has been a lightening rod for people like the ones who stormed the Capitol, and if he continues to exert influence, who knows what will happen next? We need to govern better.
iris lilies
6-16-22, 2:24pm
What happened on Jan. 6 and the days heading up to it was Mike Pence was a hero, one of several in the chain.
What happened on Jan. 6 and the days heading up to it was Mike Pence was a hero, one of several in the chain.
I think this is often overlooked in the noise.
iris lilies
6-16-22, 3:17pm
I think this is often overlooked in the noise.
Giving Pence any credit doesn’t aid the prevailing narrative.
Giving Pence any credit doesn’t aid the prevailing narrative.
I've often thought he was one of the heroes--maybe unwillingly (kudos to Dan Quayle!)--and I suspect his actions on January 6th will prove to be the defining moment of his career. Especially his "I'm not getting in that car!" .
And I don't personally know anyone who doesn't acknowledge that fact.
I'm not sure exactly what happened that day other than to think that a mob mentality was developed within the crowd just as it did in dozens of other instances of rioting/vandalism/violence in other cities over the past several years. Trump didn't do himself any favors by encouraging the crowd to protest what he declared to be a stolen election, but I haven't heard any reputable accounts of him inciting violence any more than Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer did when he stood on the steps of the Supreme Court and declared something to the effect of "Kavanaugh, we're coming for you" prior to some yahoo from California travelling to Kavanaugh's house intending to assassinate him.
Back in the 70's when I went through mandatory riot control training, we heard a lot about the vagaries of group actions which are often triggered by one or more individuals in a crowd. 'Herd' or 'Mob' mentality often ensues, and I think that's probably the right answer to the question.
"Antifa! BLM! Both sides do it!" Well, no. Thousands and thousands demonstrated peacefully in the streets around here for weeks, Proud Boys (sic) and their fellow agents provocateurs notwithstanding, there were very few incidents of violence, and those people were arrested. (Does anyone know how I can join Antifa? I certainly share their view of fascists.)
The Proud Boys (sic) were poised to promulgate violence--that's what they do, after all--this wasn't just some spontaneous event. It was carefully cultivated.
"Proud Boys? Stand back and stand by!" --Donald J Trump
1776 Returns is the Proud Boys' (sic) manifesto for carrying out the insurrection. It's quite explicit. This was no spontaneous event.
1776 Returns is the Proud Boys' (sic) manifesto for carrying out the insurrection. It's quite explicit. This was no spontaneous event.I understand that one person had a copy of the 'manifesto' on his phone. I haven't read it but according to news reports it was a plan to 'occupy' or 'sit-in' 8 different buildings, but that plan was then edited down to 'occupying' one building. I believe there were plans for 'chants' involved as well. Overall it seems to follow a tried and true protest map I've seen regularly since being a kid in the 60's. I'm still guessing the violence & damage were 'mob mentality' related.
Business Insider has a story on it: Read '1776 Returns,' a 9-page extremist plot to take over the Supreme Court, CNN and 6 other DC buildings (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/read-1776-returns-a-9-page-extremist-plot-to-take-over-the-supreme-court-cnn-and-6-other-dc-buildings/ar-AAYw6WA?ocid=uxbndlbing)
frugal-one
6-16-22, 8:43pm
Coup attempt instigated by FBI provocateurs, which is why they won't answer Ted Cruz's questions about it.
What should be done - clean house at the FBI for starters.
You NEED to watch the hearings. Your facts are skewed. Hope Alan watches/watched as well.
Coup attempt instigated by FBI provocateurs, which is why they won't answer Ted Cruz's questions about it.
What should be done - clean house at the FBI for starters.
Wait, I thought it was BLM and Antifa. Thanks for giving us the updated Q idiot opinion.
gimmethesimplelife
6-16-22, 11:09pm
It was a coup attempt and not only that but an embarrassing display of what the United States has sunk to.
gimmethesimplelife
6-16-22, 11:14pm
And I hit submit too quick. January 6th, 2021, as embarrassing and inappropriate and humiliating as it was - still lurks in the room. The issues behind 06 -Jan - 2021 remain unaddressed and I can see such instances repeating, likely in a different form next time around. Not looking forward to further US coming apart at the seams issues/Judgments from home.
I really wish this country could get it's act together but 06 - Jan - 2021 and Uvalde prove that America is too far gone for that.
Rob
I did not feel embarrassed at Jan 6--why should I feel embarrassed because treasonous criminals organized an attack on our country? I just felt tremendous shock and anger, and I hope that everyone watches the hearings closely, or reads the transcripts, and follows the case that is being laid out there.
iris lilies
6-17-22, 8:54am
"Antifa! BLM! Both sides do it!" Well, no. Thousands and thousands demonstrated peacefully in the streets around here for weeks, Proud Boys (sic) and their fellow agents provocateurs notwithstanding, there were very few incidents of violence, and those people were arrested. (Does anyone know how I can join Antifa? I certainly share their view of fascists.)
The Proud Boys (sic) were poised to promulgate violence--that's what they do, after all--this wasn't just some spontaneous event. It was carefully cultivated.
"Proud Boys? Stand back and stand by!" --Donald J Trump
sigh. Hundreds and hundreds (we dont have the population you do) demonstrated here, most peacefully if you’re measuring only violent-act-per-capita. But the fact that a peace officer was shot and killed, fire bombs thrown at other police officers, a building that I love was set on fire, etc. etc. From my point of view none of that was peaceful or defensible.
And I don’t believe you that the Seattle stuff was all “peaceful. “ The area they occupied from what I remember was very disruptive for those who actually lived there.
iris lilies
6-17-22, 9:01am
I did not feel embarrassed at Jan 6--why should I feel embarrassed because treasonous criminals organized an attack on our country? I just felt tremendous shock and anger, and I hope that everyone watches the hearings closely, or reads the transcripts, and follows the case that is being laid out there.
Agreed. But then, we don’t carry the mantle of shame generated by scrutiny of cousins in Austria.
gimmethesimplelife
6-17-22, 9:36am
Agreed. But then, we don’t carry the mantle of shame generated by scrutiny of cousins in Austria.Exactly. Anything off the rocker insane that happens in the US equals guilt and shame for me to deal with from my Austrian relations with their smugness and their better citizenship. It's all well and fine to have strong political convictions on either side and to choose to believe in this country. Much harder to.pull this off in my situation with years of prior economic turmoil plus the fact that my relatives are often right. Plus I come equipped with the emotional strength to see this.
And to.IL - Astrid is far from my only Austrian.relative - she's just the one I get along with best. She's 8 days older than me and we're both Scorpios.
sigh. Hundreds and hundreds (we dont have the population you do) demonstrated here, most peacefully if you’re measuring only violent-act-per-capita. But the fact that a peace officer was shot and killed, fire bombs thrown at other police officers, a building that I love was set on fire, etc. etc. From my point of view none of that was not peaceful or defensible.
And I don’t believe you that the Seattle stuff was all “peaceful. “ The area they occupied from what I remember was very disruptive for those who actually lived there.
A lot of that came from right-wing agitators--at least here. I support arrests of any people perpetrating violence, though police were slow to arrest violent counter-protesters here. Also, it's the nature of protests to disrupt; otherwise they would be ignored.
Someone at NR wrote that the Left views violence on the Right as emblematic while violence on the Left is seen as exceptional or the work of provocateurs. I think he was on to something.
gimmethesimplelife
6-17-22, 12:25pm
One nice thing I've been saying since o6 -JAN - 2020 is that unlike in Myanmar, our coup attempt was unsuccessful and thankfully was not quite as bad as it could have been with one life and not more gone.
I just wish I could beieve such will not happen again.
Rob
iris lilies
6-17-22, 12:25pm
A lot of that came from right-wing agitators--at least here. I support arrests of any people perpetrating violence, though police were slow to arrest violent counter-protesters here. Also, it's the nature of protests to disrupt; otherwise they would be ignored.
This is where we get to use whatever labels we like that represent our worldview.
To me, “peaceful “protesting is not disruptive. Peaceful protesters make their presence known. They are there in large numbers, for long periods of time. The “occupy “movements of a decade ago were that except there was a certain amount of filth generated from those crowds.
I’m sure the truckers in Canada do not meet with your approval yet they are disrupting things in order to not be ignored.
gimmethesimplelife
6-17-22, 12:29pm
I did not feel embarrassed at Jan 6--why should I feel embarrassed because treasonous criminals organized an attack on our country? I just felt tremendous shock and anger, and I hope that everyone watches the hearings closely, or reads the transcripts, and follows the case that is being laid out there.IL hit on the main reason but beyond my family, I'm still embarrassed. And angered and shocked it happened, yes. This is something even I could not have predicted. It's just amazing to me it happened and I wonder how history books in US high schools down the road are going to describe this.
Rob
frugal-one
6-17-22, 4:03pm
Someone at NR wrote that the Left views violence on the Right as emblematic while violence on the Left is seen as exceptional or the work of provocateurs. I think he was on to something.
DS heard them talking in Minneapolis (when all the violence was raging) and they were definitely left provocateurs there to cause disaster. He and neighbors went around their neighborhood picking up gas filled water bottles they "hide" to use later.
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