View Full Version : Community conflicts about public library collections
dado potato
7-13-22, 6:13pm
I have practiced the frugal hobby of patronizing my public library for going-on 67 years. Times have changed since 1962, when I was 13, and the National Library Week slogan was "Read and Watch Your World Grow". But I believe in the slogan as much today as I did at that time.
Speaking for myself, I know my world grew immensely. I would walk into the periodicals dept and pull up a print edition of The Wall Street Journal or The New York Times ... or I would browse the shelves for a book about history or biography. Friends would have gone straight to a Chilton's Manual or a riveting novel, such as Ivanhoe. I never felt threatened by other people finding something that they were interested in. If I had been asked how I felt about it, I would have said, I am happy that there is something in the library that satisfies their curiosity. Suum cuique pulchrum est. "To each his own is beautiful".
In Phillips, WI, a few miles south of here, the Public Library Board has been drawn into a squabble about books in the public library. Some folks have taken to social media to raise the fear that certain printed words could be dangerous, especially to children and youth. The Board now has about 30 titles to evaluate before September. According to newspaper reports, "the subject matter is LGBTQ content or social justice and race themes".
The Public Library Board decided to pace themselves and to consider 10 titles per monthly meeting. Until the matter is resolved, the 30 books in question have been removed from general circulation, available to check out overnight at the main library desk. I guess that means if a patron is really interested in one of the books, they would have to renew it daily, until their interest is satisfied.
The Director of the library said that "the most common way that unpopular books disappear from the shelves is by not being checked out. After six months without being checked out, most of those books go to the book sale."
I wonder, do squabbles like this increase circulation? Also I wonder, are other public libraries around the country finding their collections are "under protest"?
When I was interviewed for my library job, I was asked what I'd do if a patron was searching for a book I didn't approve of (some words to that effect). I replied that their reading habits were none of my business. I've always felt that way. My library system is solidly in the corner of freedom of choice when it comes to their collection.
iris lilies
7-13-22, 8:21pm
It was my job at a large public library system To evaluate complaints about library materials. Once in a while after my team evaluated the title that was the subject of a complaint, we might move it to an upper level collection such as moving it from a J collection to a Young Adult collection. Or, in one case it was rather outdated, but still important, so a book was moved from a branch collection (branches hold only popular books that circulate regularly) to the Central Library stacks, where books do not have to circulate often to earn their keep.
And yes, once in a while a patron pointed out a title that was inappropriate for the library to own. It does happen. I doubt any of the 30 titles being challenged are inappropriate for the library to have though. They are probably typical garden variety Young Adult books and classic titles often challenged.
But usually, my answer was along the lines of “ Not all library materials are pleasing to all library patrons. This material is appreciated by many patrons here. If you’re not one of them, OK. I hope that you find library materials that ARE pleasing to you. “.
it is Unfortunate that a library board is doing the hands-on work of evaluating titles in a collection. That’s way below their pay grade.
What criteria will they use to judge texts?
What is the point of the exercise?
iris lilies
7-13-22, 8:29pm
What criteria will they use to judge texts?
What is the point of the exercise?
It doesn’t hurt to evaluate titles in the library collection. It is a citizen’s right and responsibility to do so.
The criteria will be the same criteria of initial selection criteria. Or one would hope.
Ah, here's the interesting newspaper article.
https://www.apg-wi.com/price_county_review/library-to-review-30-books-after-protests/article_45b799f3-47b3-5dcf-a72c-e2e1d19d9aef.html
When I was a kid I was encouraged to investigate the library as thoroughly as I wanted. No books were off limits. And I can't imagine my parents trying to prevent me from reading anything I found and checked out with my very cherished library card. If I had shown up at home with the Anarchist Cookbook or some such book it might have made for interesting/uncomfortable dinner conversation but I don't think my parents would've ever tried to say "no, you can't/shouldn't read that..." They would have likely read it themselves in order to arm themselves with arguments about why certain suggestions/ideas made in the book were not a good idea for me to implement/act on.
Thinking about florida's 'don't say gay' bill and efforts to prevent teens from having easy access to LGBTQ books all I can say is that I didn't turn out to be a gay man because I read books about being a gay person. I read books about gay people because I had figured out that I was a gay person and was looking for validation that people like I knew myself to be existed. Denying kids that opportunity is about as cruel as cruel can be.
We have a woman running for the board of Education with a slate of other like minded people who when into her local library, checked out all the books on display for LBGQT month and declared loudly that she was taking them home, might not bother to bring them back because they don't belong in the library. The other branches sent more books to that library...it didn't go over well, but our primary is June 19 and she might get in....
The same woman and her group went to a board of Ed. Committee meeting of the Family Life committee and were loud, rude, abusive to the members of the committee who were discussing curriculum....
The same woman and her group went to a board of Ed. Committee meeting of the Family Life committee and were loud, rude, abusive to the members of the committee who were discussing curriculum....
That's a trend now--loud, intrusive people invading local school district meetings, threatening people who disagree with their often radical views ("I know where you live!"), running for office to gain power over libraries and curricula. People need to be aware.
iris lilies
7-14-22, 11:04am
When I was a kid I was encouraged to investigate the library as thoroughly as I wanted. No books were off limits. And I can't imagine my parents trying to prevent me from reading anything I found and checked out with my very cherished library card. If I had shown up at home with the Anarchist Cookbook or some such book it might have made for interesting/uncomfortable dinner conversation but I don't think my parents would've ever tried to say "no, you can't/shouldn't read that..." They would have likely read it themselves in order to arm themselves with arguments about why certain suggestions/ideas made in the book were not a good idea for me to implement/act on.
Thinking about florida's 'don't say gay' bill and efforts to prevent teens from having easy access to LGBTQ books all I can say is that I didn't turn out to be a gay man because I read books about being a gay person. I read books about gay people because I had figured out that I was a gay person and was looking for validation that people like I knew myself to be existed. Denying kids that opportunity is about as cruel as cruel can be.
My parents were of the “she can read anything..go to the library, kid!” mindset.
I remember 30 some years ago when there were great debates within my own large urban library about eliminating the restriction on what kids under 12 could check out. Many staff members honestly thought they were protecting children by limiting artificially what they could read.
We moved to a system where the child’s card could be toggled on or off for for check out privileges from adult collections. The toggle was controlled by their parents. Then finally in recent years we moved to a “no restrictions at all” model and told parents it was their job to monitor their children’s checked out materials.
Looking back, these activities were quaint. Considering the thousands of god-awful sites on the Internet, all of these library materials are quite tame.
I remember going to the library during the summer between 6th and 7th grades and being escorted out of the adult collection section by a helpful librarian.
I don't remember ever being restricted to certain books at the library; as a kid, I particularly remember perusing the cryptozoology section in adult non-fiction.
catherine
7-14-22, 12:26pm
Looking back, these activities were quaint. Considering the thousands of god-awful sites on the Internet, all of these library materials are quite tame.
Honestly, that's what I think. Do parents really think the LIBRARY is going to expose their kids to all the things they consider inappropriate? The library is the LAST place kids are going to learn about all the different facets of life, good and bad. They don't even read these days.
Maybe the local libraries should actually research what kids are ACTUALLY checking out before getting their knickers in a twist. I'll bet there is a lot of dust on all the books that are so prohibitive.
iris lilies
7-14-22, 12:35pm
Honestly, that's what I think. Do parents really think the LIBRARY is going to expose their kids to all the things they consider inappropriate? The library is the LAST place kids are going to learn about all the different facets of life, good and bad. They don't even read these days.
Maybe the local libraries should actually research what kids are ACTUALLY checking out before getting their knickers in a twist. I'll bet there is a lot of dust on all the books that are so prohibitive.
Well, I will say there is an element of “my tax dollars at work, buying and promoting this drek” so I can sort of see an argument that public libraries and school libraries are different from content creators/providers on the internet.
There’s always going to be an element of ‘my tax dollars shouldn’t be supporting X, Y, or Z’ no matter what X, Y, or Z is. For some people it’s the industrial war complex. For some Mainers it’s religious private schools. For some people it’s public health issues. The list is endless. But in a case like the library, which exists to serve everyone in the community the books purchased should be for the entire community not just a narrow subset of religious folks.
iris lilies
7-14-22, 9:50pm
There’s always going to be an element of ‘my tax dollars shouldn’t be supporting X, Y, or Z’ no matter what X, Y, or Z is. For some people it’s the industrial war complex. For some Mainers it’s religious private schools. For some people it’s public health issues. The list is endless. But in a case like the library, which exists to serve everyone in the community the books purchased should be for the entire community not just a narrow subset of religious folks.
Individual titles purchased for “the entire community “would be a very bland collection indeed. But I don’t think that’s what you mean.
Individual titles will serve specific tastes within the community. There’s not one size fits all.
Individual titles purchased for “the entire community “would be a very bland collection indeed. But I don’t think that’s what you mean.
Individual titles will serve specific tastes within the community. There’s not one size fits all.
Yes. I personally would just as soon not have my library waste their money on a book as stupid as the Bible. But I’m not going to be a 12 year old who screams and yells about it. Some folks will be happy that it is there and I’m good with that.
iris lilies
7-15-22, 9:37am
That's a trend now--loud, intrusive people invading local school district meetings, threatening people who disagree with their often radical views ("I know where you live!"), running for office to gain power over libraries and curricula. People need to be aware.
Ummm, running for office “to gain power over libraries and curricula” is kinda the point of being on school and library boards.
I am not threatened by that exercise in democracy.
iris lilies
7-15-22, 11:09am
I remember going to the library during the summer between 6th and 7th grades and being escorted out of the adult collection section by a helpful librarian.
Ah librarians, such a beacon of intellectual freedom!
Yes. I personally would just as soon not have my library waste their money on a book as stupid as the Bible. But I’m not going to be a 12 year old who screams and yells about it. Some folks will be happy that it is there and I’m good with that.
Would you say the same thing about the Koran?
Would you say the same thing about the Koran?
Absolutely. There are undoubtedly people in my community who would want to read it.
iris lilies
7-15-22, 3:32pm
Absolutely. There are undoubtedly people in my community who would want to read it.
OK JP, I’ll throw this one at you: Would you support your public library placing the QURAN on a shelf by itself, and above all of the books in the library? It requires that honor. In order to hold a QURAN in a culturally appropriate manner, it should be venerated.
If you think that is a ridiculous question, let me tell you that I received a complaint about that very thing.
Absolutely. There are undoubtedly people in my community who would want to read it.
Let me get this straight. You wouldn’t want your library to spend money on the Bible, but you would be just okay with them spending money on the Koran?
EDIT: misread your answer. Thought it said you wouldn’t want the Bible in the library at all.
The library system where I live now is one of the best things about being here. However, the scenario mentioned is playing out with new ultra-conservative board members (they are also joining school boards) stirring up poo. The library director resigned in protest. I don't know where it all stands now but seems ridiculous to me. Kids don't go en masse to the library to look at controversial books and parents should have the say-so over what they can check out - not the library board.
OK JP, I’ll throw this one at you: Would you support your public library placing the QURAN on a shelf by itself, and above all of the books in the library? It requires that honor. In order to hold a QURAN in a culturally appropriate manner, it should be venerated.
If you think that is a ridiculous question, let me tell you that I received a complaint about that very thing.
If I were a librarian I suppose I would do the research on appropriate treatment of the book. Five minutes with the googles told me that there are a variety of opinions on the topic with the extreme being that the library probably shouldn’t have one because non-Islamic people shouldn’t touch a Quran. From the library’s perspective probably the best, and easiest, way to resolve that would be to reach out to one or two leaders of the local Islamic community and follow their recommendations.
iris lilies
7-16-22, 8:16am
If I were a librarian I suppose I would do the research on appropriate treatment of the book. Five minutes with the googles told me that there are a variety of opinions on the topic with the extreme being that the library probably shouldn’t have one because non-Islamic people shouldn’t touch a Quran. From the library’s perspective probably the best, and easiest, way to resolve that would be to reach out to one or two leaders of the local Islamic community and follow their recommendations.
damn, you are good! This is yet another example of why you would make a fine librarian.
That is kind of what I did, although it was never resolved to change our practice. I received one answer from a semi local religious person that was just bland. I ended up going back to the complaining patron to talk further with her about it, but her phone number was disconnected. We did not change what we were doing with the Quran at this particular branch but it was a very interesting exercise.
damn, you are good! This is yet another example of why you would make a fine librarian.
Thanks! I had actually seriously considered that as a career option. But then I was offered a half tuition music scholarship and decided to go into arts administration instead. A few years into that career I realized that I had made a mistake so now, after a couple of random twists and turns I'm an insurance underwriter. But you're right, I probably would be at least halfway decent as a librarian and would also likely very much enjoy the job.
Thinking more about books I would just as soon not have my tax dollars support I think the top of the list would be those of my namesake fiction author. I’ve tried reading a couple and found them to be blah and totally not worth the time. Of course I haven’t read the 500 or so others (he seems to be a one man book of the month club) so who knows. Maybe he’s gotten better in the decade plus since I last attempted one of his books. I have friends that love his work. But the constant purchase of his books surely makes a dent in my library’s budget that prevents other better books from being purchased.
Thinking more about books I would just as soon not have my tax dollars support I think the top of the list would be those of my namesake fiction author. I’ve tried reading a couple and found them to be blah and totally not worth the time. Of course I haven’t read the 500 or so others (he seems to be a one man book of the month club) so who knows. Maybe he’s gotten better in the decade plus since I last attempted one of his books. I have friends that love his work. But the constant purchase of his books surely makes a dent in my library’s budget that prevents other better books from being purchased.
James Patterson? I tried to read one of his books once. I got about five pages in.
James Patterson? I tried to read one of his books once. I got about five pages in.
Yes. I guess I made it pretty far. I got almost 100 pages in on one book and 60 pages in on a different one.
iris lilies
7-16-22, 10:55pm
Yes. I guess I made it pretty far. I got almost 100 pages in on one book and 60 pages in on a different one.
I made the mistake of getting an audiobook of James Patterson’s when we went on a car trip because I figured it would be light reading and DH might be OK with it, and frankly there was a limited number of choices on the shelf the day I ran in to get something for our vacation.
It became laughable listening to it because the narrator kept repeating the same thing throughout the book. I mean he would recap the plot at intervals. It’s not as though it was a complicated plot to begin with. I just made fun of it after a while because not only does Patterson write an uninteristing book, out of his only 182 pages, 25% of it is rewriting the same thing.
iris lilies
7-16-22, 10:58pm
Still, there are occasional titles of best selling drek that strike me. I remember that Bridges of Madison County absolutely gutted me. I still tear up thinking about that ending.
Still, there are occasional titles of best selling drek that strike me. I remember that Bridges of Madison County absolutely gutted me. I still tear up thinking about that ending.
I’ve not read that book but the movie was quite enjoyable.
iris lilies
7-16-22, 11:38pm
I’ve not read that book but the movie was quite enjoyable.
I thought the movie was badly acted by the children, to the point where I found it distracting.Streep was fine of course
I’ve not read that book but the movie was quite enjoyable.
Yes! I avoided the book like the plague, but I happened upon the movie accidentally, and I was surprised to find myself enjoying it.
rosarugosa
7-17-22, 6:31am
I read one Patterson book many years ago, and I was so unimpressed that it was my first and last, and I've since been surprised to see how successful he is.
I thought the movie was badly acted by the children, to the point where I found it distracting.Streep was fine of course
Fortunately, I came in halfway through, so missed the kids.
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