Green people insisting you get rid of your car

[Tradd]

Perfect example of why some of us don’t look kindly on “green” people.

Had a car accident yesterday. Car drivable for local but not for FL trip so I’m renting a car.

I’ve been getting messages from “green” friends that it would be a perfect time to downsize and GET RID of my car. Um, no! I have a 40 mile daily commute to work. I live where there is no public transit (aside from the trains to downtown Chicago), and with my bad knees I already don’t do any walking. To get to any stores I’d have to walk 3/4 mile minimum. I was told to just give up my diving for the good of the environment because I drive too much. What are people thinking? They know about where I live and the physical issues. When I pointed that out again, I was told they didn’t care. Environment more important. Get a bike was the answer. In the Midwest in the winter? They don’t care. I was told to give up current job and get a WFH one.

I told them they’d best stop preaching their Green Gospel at me. I pointed out that one of them has 5 kids and a Suburban, yet they’re telling single, no kids me that I’m a drain on the environment.

[early morning]

I consider myself fairly green but would never presume to tell someone they did not need a car, when clearly they do! These people don't sound particularly green or like your friends. Just sayin'.

[bae]

It's about a 10 mile round trip to the local market and village from my house. It is easily bicycleable - if you are a good cyclist, there is about a 1200 ft elevation gain in the last mile or so. An electric-assist bicycle helps some, but it is still a "healthy" climb.

The road is also small, twisty, has no shoulders, has frequent rockfall on it, and has lots of deer that jump out into the road even during daytime. This makes it extra fun to ride on. In addition, the weather here is often "sporty", which makes bicycling extra "fun".

As a result, much of the time I drive a little Fiat electric car, which is fine for local use. When the weather is atrocious though, I break out a Hummer H1, as it's one of the few things that can make it up/down my mountain road when it's bad.

I've had local greenies complain about the Hummer. Now, these "locals" often only live here a few weeks a year in their nice expensive homes built in wetlands buffer zones, and they usually fly to get here....

So, I basically ignore them. I had a "powered by whale oil biodiesel" sticker on the truck for a while as a protest, but it got covered in moss.

[JaneV2.0]

I agree with the sentiment that each one of us gets to make their own decisions about how to contribute to a greener society. I take a lot of positive actions, like driving 1000 miles or less a year, buying used, keeping heating use low, not reproducing, etc.--and others that aren't so much. (For a non-ambulatory person, I do have a lot of shoes...:D)

I've upped my protein (meat, local, pastured) consumption to combat age-related sarcopenia, and I'll be damned if I'm going to eat insects. I'll give up my car on my timetable. Busybodies are always tiresome.

[catherine]

This is what I love about the book Bright Green Lies--it points out the problem of forming a monolithic, mainstream environmental coalition with a list of immutable "rules"--one of them being "Thou shalt push for renewables no matter what."

Environmentalists can be just as obnoxious as reformed smokers or "enlightened" vegetarians.

As for your environmentalist "friends"--you could simply tell them, "hey, I'll be happy to stack my carbon footprint against yours any day!" Junking a drivable car because it runs on fossil fuels is not very environmentally friendly. Lithium mining to turn the whole world EV by 2030 isn't environmentally friendly. The environmental movement has been co-opted by larger, profit-making forces and those forces have pushed the messages that your friends are playing back to you.

[JaneV2.0]

... The environmental movement has been co-opted by larger, profit-making forces and those forces have pushed the messages that your friends are playing back to you.

That scenario has played out in numerous different arenas (medicine comes to mind). In this country, it's all about the money.

[Tradd]

Actually, they wanted me to be CAR FREE, not get an EV.

[frugal-one]

Tell the Suburban mom to go car free….. or MYOB.

[bae]

I've upped my protein (meat, local, pastured) consumption ...

I have to think that grass-fed meat that I source from my neighbor's farm, where I can see the animals everyday, and where the animals are processed on-site, is perhaps more "eco" than vegetarian ingredients grown across the country and shipped here.

[catherine]

I have to think that grass-fed meat that I source from my neighbor's farm, where I can see the animals everyday, and where the animals are processed on-site, is perhaps more "eco" than vegetarian ingredients grown across the country and shipped here.

Absolutely.

[JaneV2.0]

This is what I love about the book Bright Green Lies--it points out the problem of forming a monolithic, mainstream environmental coalition with a list of immutable "rules"--one of them being "Thou shalt push for renewables no matter what."
...

I'm watching a YT interview with Lierre Keith describing her long, disastrous life with veganism. She seems like a lovely person, and I learned a lot from The Vegetarian Myth. I'll check out Bright Green Lies.

[JaneV2.0]

I have to think that grass-fed meat that I source from my neighbor's farm, where I can see the animals everyday, and where the animals are processed on-site, is perhaps more "eco" than vegetarian ingredients grown across the country and shipped here.

Pasture-raised meat (frankly, any meat) is far and away better for the ecosystem than most of what we do to produce food.

[catherine]

I'm watching a YT interview with Lierre Keith describing her long, disastrous life with veganism. She seems like a lovely person, and I learned a lot from The Vegetarian Myth. I'll check out Bright Green Lies.

Yes, she is wonderfully articulate and passionate about the environment and feminism. I have The Vegetarian Myth--very good book.

[rosarugosa]

Tradd: Sounds like you have some weird friends.

[Tybee]

That is pretty funny coming from someone with five kids. The logic definitely breaks down.

[Rogar]

I have to think that grass-fed meat that I source from my neighbor's farm, where I can see the animals everyday, and where the animals are processed on-site, is perhaps more "eco" than vegetarian ingredients grown across the country and shipped here.

That is indeed nice, but in the world that most people live in it is not an available reality. I try hard not to pass judgment on people's diets, but there are some undeniable consequences of the standard large scale industrial animal production.

There is one so called locavore small grocery with in driving distance of my home. The cost of meats is probably prohibitive for most budgets, especially a family. The standard supermarket where I shop has what they call grass fed beef and I noticed one it came from South America.

I go by the Monterey Aquarium ratings for rare seafood purchases and there are not a lot of options in the standard supermarket. Someone must buy a lot of salmon, as large fillets are always featured. A wise eye could find plenty of environmental problems with salmon aquaculture. Not to mention shrimp culture.

[bae]

I think I’m paying $4.25/lb for the cow that is arriving next week. It’s cheaper than bok choy.

[iris lilies]

I think I’m paying $4.25/lb for the cow that is arriving next week. It’s cheaper than bok choy.
We paid four dollars and some cents per pound for the beef we just bought. Honestly, I was shocked that it was cheaper than store-bought beef. The reason I was shocked is because for decades we had been getting cows and pigs free from my husband‘s family farm, and we paid for the processing. I had always assumed locally produced beef and pork was more expensive.

It is not.

Of course, the average American won’t buy it because it represents a big upfront cost and then you have to have a big chest freezer in which to store the meat.

[catherine]

I go by the Monterey Aquarium ratings for rare seafood purchases and there are not a lot of options in the standard supermarket. Someone must buy a lot of salmon, as large fillets are always featured. A wise eye could find plenty of environmental problems with salmon aquaculture. Not to mention shrimp culture.

I'm reading The Salmon Wars: The Dark Underbelly of Our Favorite Fish. It's an interesting book, but the bottom line, according to the author, is a technological one. They do pose the problems with farmed fish, but their solution is to amp up the technology to produce more "wild" fish. I'm still a little confused by that all. Why not just remove dams as a first step?

I completely agree that unfortunately at this point in time locally raised, grass-fed beef is not available at a reasonable cost to most people. When grassfed beef is shipped from New Zealand to supermarket shelves, I just shake my head and say a prayer with gratitude for my ability to chat with Jocelyn at our local farm/meat market who provides much of our meat and dairy, who shows me the little turkey chicks when they arrive. If we could incentivize small farmers throughout the country to provide grass-fed meat the same way we incentivize Big Ag to destroy our soil and torture our animals, maybe you could buy reasonably priced, high quality meat.

[iris lilies]

I'm reading The Salmon Wars: The Dark Underbelly of Our Favorite Fish. It's an interesting book, but the bottom line, according to the author, is a technological one. They do pose the problems with farmed fish, but their solution is to amp up the technology to produce more "wild" fish. I'm still a little confused by that all. Why not just remove dams as a first step?

I completely agree that unfortunately at this point in time locally raised, grass-fed beef is not available at a reasonable cost to most people. When grassfed beef is shipped from New Zealand to supermarket shelves, I just shake my head and say a prayer with gratitude for my ability to chat with Jocelyn at our local farm/meat market who provides much of our meat and dairy, who shows me the little turkey chicks when they arrive. If we could incentivize small farmers throughout the country to provide grass-fed meat the same way we incentivize Big Ag to destroy our soil and torture our animals, maybe you could buy reasonably priced, high quality meat.

But my example and bae’s examples show you that they ARE reasonably priced.

And pork is even cheaper.

[catherine]

But my example and bae’s examples show you that they ARE reasonably priced.

And pork is even cheaper.

True, but most people only buy what they can fit in their kitchen freezer, and that is often overpriced and comes from far away.

A good marketing campaign would be to educate consumers on the value of buying meat shares. My sons did that--they shared a cow with their next door neighbors and that was a relatively large upfront cost for them, but it was definitely cheaper and better for them in the long-term. But people don't think that way--and/or they don't know about options like that that exist.

[iris lilies]

True, but most people only buy what they can fit in their kitchen freezer, and that is often overpriced and comes from far away.

A good marketing campaign would be to educate consumers on the value of buying meat shares. My sons did that--they shared a cow with their next door neighbors and that was a relatively large upfront cost for them, but it was definitely cheaper and better for them in the long-term. But people don't think that way--and/or they don't know about options like that that exist.

true! Halves and quarters of a cow are do-able.

[littlebittybobby]

Okay---with ideologues, the solution for everything is some extreme measure that is not realistic. But yeah---if you and everyone else just cut the fat out of your driving habits, that would go a long way. Like littlewbittymeee---I went from 14,000 miles/yr, to 12,000, then 8,000, and now I'm at 4,000 yearly, for the last five. And I could prolly do better, but I like to keep my battery charged and "blow the cobs outta 'er!!!", as they say waaay up in IWAH. Yup.

[Alan]

I went from 14,000 miles/yr, to 12,000, then 8,000, and now I'm at 4,000 yearly, for the last five.
My wife has had her car for 5.5 years and it currently has 17,000 miles on the odometer. According to my old math skills, that's approximately 3,000 miles per year. Of course, I make up for her mileage frugality by towing a camper around the country for 2-3 months each year. Sometimes, just to have something to do, we eat too. Thankkk youuu for suggesting it!

[ApatheticNoMore]

My driving is down maybe 75%. My secret: I mostly work from home. Probably 80% of my driving was commuting to work (and not even a super long commute), I suspect that is the case with many people.

[iris lilies]

My current car averages 8000 miles a year. But my current lifestyle puts more miles on it than did the early years because when we lived in the city while I was working, we put very few miles on the cars. There, Most everything we did , grocery shopping, entertainment, seeing friends was within a 2-3 mile radius.

Now we drive between Hermann and elsewhere fairly often.

[bae]

True, but most people only buy what they can fit in their kitchen freezer, and that is often overpriced and comes from far away.


Our local food coop sources most of its meat from in-county producers, and while the prices are higher than buying the whole cow yourself, it's in the ballpark of our big grocery store's prices, and sometimes cheaper.

I just got back from shopping at a local farmer's shop - they have wool products, meat, fleeces, and so on. The meat is all from their fields, and is competitively priced with the meat the big grocery store sells, which is not-local, and not-grass-fed typically.

This doesn't happen by magic though. Some years back we went to the trouble of getting one of the first mobile meat processing facilities in the nation certified, so a lot of the middleman is cut out for local farmers, and local consumers. It's better for the animals too, they don't have to be transported and subjected to stressful circumstances.

[ToomuchStuff]

Perfect example of why some of us don’t look kindly on “green” people.

Had a car accident yesterday. Car drivable for local but not for FL trip so I’m renting a car.

I’ve been getting messages from “green” friends that it would be a perfect time to downsize and GET RID of my car. Um, no! I have a 40 mile daily commute to work. I live where there is no public transit (aside from the trains to downtown Chicago), and with my bad knees I already don’t do any walking. To get to any stores I’d have to walk 3/4 mile minimum. I was told to just give up my diving for the good of the environment because I drive too much. What are people thinking? They know about where I live and the physical issues. When I pointed that out again, I was told they didn’t care. Environment more important. Get a bike was the answer. In the Midwest in the winter? They don’t care. I was told to give up current job and get a WFH one.

I told them they’d best stop preaching their Green Gospel at me. I pointed out that one of them has 5 kids and a Suburban, yet they’re telling single, no kids me that I’m a drain on the environment.


Your friends wouldn't like me and would generally shut up to me, LOL.
I would be calling them every day for my needed rides or to have them bring stuff to me, annoy them back.

[Teacher Terry]

Your friends have a lot of nerve especially the one with 5 kids. I only drive about 3k miles a year now but it was totally different when I had the kids with school, work, etc. Plus you have bad knees. The lack of consideration would really make me mad.

[flowerseverywhere]

We were criticized for having two cars. One is 2008. The other is much older and DH keeps it on the road doing all the work himself. Pre computer days. And he loves to work on it. We don’t drive much overall. Our goal is to keep both running as long as safely possible.

in the meantime the person who was critical is flying to Asia in January and took four pleasure flights this year. It astounds me how people can criticize without admitting they are complicit in wastefulness.

[littlebittybobby]

Okay---Taking this thing incrementally further, but of course not to an extreme, I figure you kids should get rid of that late-model rolling stock, and get your self an old Huttson Jet to get around in, locally. Then get some tent-camping gear and use the Bus lines along with AmTrack to go camping and other touristy things. if you buy a tool set, you ought to maintain the ol' Huttson in working order, and order repair parts online. Also, get some inexpensive city bikes to ride to the corner for cigarettes & liquor, like they do here. Yup. Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.5008