Iowa Snap/WIC debate

[flowerseverywhere]

Some women I was with were talking about a republican proposal to align snap benefits with WIC benefits. They were upset about how they couldn't buy white bread or rice and so on. I knew nothing about it so decided to look it up.
As usual, the headlines were quite dramatic and misleading. I am still not sure if it is a totally good or bad thing.

Here is a sample article.

https://www.businessinsider.com/iowa-republicans-bill-ban-snap-recipients-meat-sliced-cheese-2023-1
You can buy bread, but it has to be whole wheat or whole grain. Rice has to be brown rice, not white. Only certain cereals qualify. You can buy American cheese, but not the single wrapped processed slices. There is also a double up vegetable program where fresh produce benefit is doubled. If you spend $5 you can get a voucher for $5 more.

Is this a good thing? It does encourage better eating in more whole grains, less sodium miniscule processed sugar and other processed foods are consumed. You can get peanut butter but not jelly.

Some of the articles included interviews with recipients who said their kids won't eat whole wheat bread, fresh vegetables, rice and so on. although I couldn't figure it out, I'm guessing many families could also access a food bank, however they have strict limitations on how often and quantity you were allowed from what I have seen. I am unsure any of these kids qualify for free lunch but I'm guessing yes.

The misleading headline annoyed me, but in a nutshell are food restrictions reasonable for public assistance food benefits?

[jp1]

If we can’t trust women with control of their bodies so why should we trust them with control of what they put in them? To paraphrase Dr Oz ‘a woman’s food decisions should be between herself, her grocer, and her local politician.’

[littlebittybobby]

If we can’t trust women with control of their bodies so why should we trust them with control of what they put in them? To paraphrase Dr Oz ‘a woman’s food decisions should be between herself, her grocer, and her local politician.’ Okay---I've got a better one than that: In IWAH, they should allow WIC recipients to only purchase Pork Products, to feed the Kids. After all, IWAH Farmers work HARD to feed the Needy. Yup. Bacon for breakfast, lunch meat fer dinner, and IWAH Chops fer Supper. Yup. Awesome & Amazing.

[flowerseverywhere]

It’s 2023. Men shop for groceries too

[iris lilies]

The proposed Iowa bill as represented in the article is too restrictive. WIC is a good program, but it’s not intended to cover all food needs. I wouldn’t be surprised if this proposed restriction in the State of Iowa is against federal government regulations.

But in the bigger picture, sure when you receive government handouts you, accept the rules that go with those handouts.
There are not many food stuffs you can’t buy with snap benefits, but there are still things you can’t buy. You can’t buy hot food in a grocery store for instance. So you can’t buy a rotisserie chicken. Many households see that as a staple, and it isnt expensive.

[sweetana3]

Big brother knows best at its finest. Sarcasm intended. I eat white bread but only for certain sandwiches. I eat whole wheat for certain things. I do not want to have brown rice. Japan as a country loves its white rice and they live long lives. I need jelly on my peanut butter to make it palatable. Could not eat peanut butter without something like that.

I am an old white woman who has always had access to food. Still remember with horror the stuff that the school decided we had to eat whether we liked it or not. I still will not eat egg salad or certain other products that found their way to our cafeteria. And I started to walk home for a quick lunch as soon as I was old enough.

A chef friend tells of a job he had at the local domestic violence shelter. He improved the food and incorporated a salad bar for fresh things. He had a client come up and ask when they could have hotdogs and french fries. They were totally unaccustomed to the food he thought was "better" and more nutritious. It was not familiar. He had to slowly introduce the new things.

[flowerseverywhere]

Iris I agree with its you. But a point I believe is you can’t just give things to people and expect them to know how to manage. I am involved in several charitable organizations. We strive to be good stewards of any funds we get. For instance I just got a huge donation of fabric. We spent hours deciding where and for what good we could do with it. It was a gift that goes a long way when managed properly.
so is it bad to educate people on how to make food money stretch?
I don’t think we would be in the shape we are in if people did not have access to enormous student loans with no chance for payback, predatory payday loans, credit cards and so on. Many people grow up with no idea how to manage money. I’m not saying this is a great bill but it gives food for thought.

[iris lilies]

Iris I agree with its you. But a point I believe is you can’t just give things to people and expect them to know how to manage. I am involved in several charitable organizations. We strive to be good stewards of any funds we get. For instance I just got a huge donation of fabric. We spent hours deciding where and for what good we could do with it. It was a gift that goes a long way when managed properly.
so is it bad to educate people on how to make food money stretch?
I don’t think we would be in the shape we are in if people did not have access to enormous student loans with no chance for payback, predatory payday loans, credit cards and so on. Many people grow up with no idea how to manage money. I’m not saying this is a great bill but it gives food for thought.

OK well you’re going off on rails as far as I’m concerned about “enormous student loans” and etc.


I think it would be a good idea for every household on long term SNAP benefits to have a rice cooker and a crockpot in the kitchen. So what if they don’t have a functional stove? You can do a lot with those small appliances.

We never, I mean NEVER had rice growing up in our household because my dad ate too much of it in the Navy, and while he was not a picky eater, my mother tried to accommodate that. So consequently, I feel deprived because I wasn’t able to have rice growing up! ;)

my dad was a typical poor person growing up during the depression, but because they lived on a farm they had more variety in food than he had in the navy.

[jp1]

Iris I agree with its you. But a point I believe is you can’t just give things to people and expect them to know how to manage.

If that was actually the goal then a better option would be to require recipients to attend a few classes on basic nutrition and food budget management. Then treat them like the adults they are and trust them to make the best decisions for their families.

[iris lilies]

If that was actually the goal then a better option would be to require recipients to attend a few classes on basic nutrition and food budget management. Then treat them like the adults they are and trust them to make the best decisions for their families.
Perhaps requiring competent cooks to attend a few classes is nannying.

Perhaps requiring a few classes before getting free foodstuffs from the government is an additional time suck, an impossible hoop jumping burden for an already harried mom working multiple small jobs to make ends meet.

Or, Perhaps our government really doesn’t have The Answer and it is best to stay out of its machinery when humanly possible, and until then, Nanny G is gonna Nanny.

[jp1]

Perhaps requiring competent cooks to attend a few classes is nannying.

Perhaps requiring a few classes before getting free foodstuffs from the government is an additional time suck, an impossible hoop jumping burden for an already harried mom working multiple small jobs to make ends meet.

Or, Perhaps our government really doesn’t have The Answer and it is best to stay out of its machinery when humanly possible, and until then, Nanny G is gonna Nanny.

I think we actually agree then. The government should trust the person receiving the benefits is a capable enough adult to make the best, or at least adequate, decisions for their family. I only suggested classes as a less worse option if the point of this misguided program is "education".

[bae]

The misleading headline annoyed me, but in a nutshell are food restrictions reasonable for public assistance food benefits?

In today's world, no.

In an ideal world, we'd fund the programs sufficient to allow for the purchase of sustainably-produced-and-distributed foods, and not stuff manufactured out of petroleum and shipped long distances. But since we're not in that world yet...

[iris lilies]

I like the fact that some farmer’s markets give double vale for SNAP benefits.

[bae]

I like the fact that some farmer’s markets give double vale for SNAP benefits.

Ours does that. And our food bank is sufficiently connected to the local producers, and has enough funding, that it tries to deliver food products from in-county as much as possible. It often looks better than the regular grocery store, which relies on trucked-in food supplies for most of its stocks.

YMMV

[JaneV2.0]

There's little nutritional difference between whole wheat bread or brown rice and the alternative--it all turns to sugar the minute it goes in your mouth. Red meat and butter are good for you, skim milk is an abomination. The government should stay out of decisions regarding food, as they clearly don't know what they're doing.

[Tradd]

Just a reminder that WIC already allows for only certain items. Food stamps/SNAP doesn’t.

[catherine]

Just a reminder that WIC already allows for only certain items. Food stamps/SNAP doesn’t.

Is WIC where you get handed that standard chunk of cheese? My DD used to work for a major food policy organization in NYC, and the chairman/activist used to say that it was wrong to refuse soda and chips to people on SNAP. I tended to disagree with him but was interested in the rationale that the poor shouldn't be "punished" by being "undeserving" of the simple pleasures we all have when it comes to eating. This culture is the one that rammed it down our throats that cheap white bread is best, and then we deny it to those that can't afford it? The poor have already been raised on food that is bad for them--cheap food like McDonald's. Thinking about this as I go along, forcing them to all of a sudden eat whole grains seems pretty elitist.

I still don't know what the answer is. Local private food pantries are a good idea. But if the government is giving out funds redeemable at a supermarket, I think the only thing off limits should be alcohol. So I guess I disagree with folding SNAP in with WIC.


ETA: Looks like VT already "curates" acceptable foods in its WIC program. https://www.healthvermont.gov/family/wic/shopping-wic

And here's another thing: WIC is for "women, infants and children" and SNAP is for any person that falls under the income criteria basically. Is this "whole grain" policy discriminatory towards women? Just a question. Kind of to jp1's point about the patriarchal attitude towards women manifesting itself in its nutritional dictates..

[Tradd]

WIC is for pregnant women and kids up to 6, I think. You can get milk, cheese, juice, tuna, veggies, fruit, that sort of thing. It even specifies the package sizes.

[catherine]

WIC is for pregnant women and kids up to 6, I think. You can get milk, cheese, juice, tuna, veggies, fruit, that sort of thing. It even specifies the package sizes.

Hmm.. so I'm not sure as to why the split in benefits. If people can't afford food, why couldn't they just get SNAP?

[bae]

The USDA says 34 million people in the USA are “food insecure”.

The 2022 NDAA was $858 billion. 1/2 of that defense budget would put about $1000/month in the hands of each of those people experiencing food insecurity.

[Tradd]

Hmm.. so I'm not sure as to why the split in benefits. If people can't afford food, why couldn't they just get SNAP?

Difference between WIC and SNAP.

https://www.benefits.gov/news/article/439

[flowerseverywhere]

The article said the proposition was to make snap benefits follow the wic guidelines. So it involves women and men in Iowa.

[iris lilies]

Is WIC where you get handed that standard chunk of cheese? My DD used to work for a major food policy organization in NYC, and the chairman/activist used to say that it was wrong to refuse soda and chips to people on SNAP. I tended to disagree with him but was interested in the rationale that the poor shouldn't be "punished" by being "undeserving" of the simple pleasures we all have when it comes to eating. This culture is the one that rammed it down our throats that cheap white bread is best, and then we deny it to those that can't afford it? The poor have already been raised on food that is bad for them--cheap food like McDonald's. Thinking about this as I go along, forcing them to all of a sudden eat whole grains seems pretty elitist.

I still don't know what the answer is. Local private food pantries are a good idea. But if the government is giving out funds redeemable at a supermarket, I think the only thing off limits should be alcohol. So I guess I disagree with folding SNAP in with WIC.
I don’t think there’s a cheese program anymore.

WIC is a special program for Women Infants Children and it has a limited list of ingredients you can buy, focusing on nutrient dense products.

Unlike Jane, I think skim milk is perfectly fine.

[iris lilies]

Hmm.. so I'm not sure as to why the split in benefits. If people can't afford food, why couldn't they just get SNAP?

WIC is a separate program and has different qualifying factors. 10 years ago, I would’ve said “men can’t qualify for WIC” but of course it’s no longer true. And now it’s been pointed out in the discussion. How extremely transphobic the WIC named program is.

They had better get “birthing persons “folded into the goobermental lexicon

[bae]

They had better get “birthing persons “folded into the goobermental lexicon


Or just go with: “low-income pregnant, breastfeeding, and non-breastfeeding postpartum”.

[iris lilies]

Or just go with: “low-income pregnant, breastfeeding, and non-breastfeeding postpartum”.
They want a noun. These are all adjectives.

I refuse to contemplate the amount of dollars paid to government drones changing out this terminology, which I’m sure is happening as we speak here.

[Teacher Terry]

I find it ridiculous to try to micromanage what poor people eat.

[iris lilies]

I have read complaints on Reddit about Covid-era Snap benefits being cut, but some people on the program cannot even use the foods they have.

yesterday our friends visited us. The wife-friend said her neighbors, on Snap benefits, kept bringing over gallons of milk because they had too much. Meanwhile, their children are way skinny and always hungry, and are borderline neglected. She saw a law enforcement officer there this week, presumably doing a wellness check on the kids.

My friend has told these parents “look, you can make pudding. Quiches. Cream soups. You can make so much with this milk! Use it on your kids!”

The same people complained that during COVID they would have to actually make breakfast and lunch for their children.

All the government money in the world will not fix stupid or ill intentioned, or lazy, or whatever it is that compels these people to be poor parents to the point they do not feed their children.