View Full Version : Balloon Busted
I see a USAF F-22 shot down the infamous Chinese spy balloon with an AIM-9X missile. The Navy and Coast Guard are working to recover the wreckage. It’s interesting how much interest this has attracted when the FBI opens a new Chinese espionage case every day.
iris lilies
2-4-23, 6:43pm
Good.
We saw spy balloon over Hermann yesterday. DH took photo, put up on Facebook.
it was right above us.
Did no one else see it?
No, it didn't make it up this far--the cold might have messed it up anyway. That's cool that you guys saw it, though.
I wonder what Gary Powers would think?
An interesting choice of spy methods, if that's what it was. Possibly surveying for pulsed EMP to disable US missiles after they invade Taiwan. What ever it is, it arouses suspicions. One could think modern satellites would have some high resolution.
Does China not have satellites that fly over US airspace? That would seem a more efficient and predictable method of spying.
Does China not have satellites that fly over US airspace? That would seem a more efficient and predictable method of spying.
Perhaps they are more interested in non visual information of some sort...
It was probably a test to see how we would respond. I'll bet they're surprised to see that we didn't.
I wondered why they didn't rely on satellites, too.
Perhaps they are more interested in non visual information of some sort...
Is there non-visual information that a balloon can more easily capture than a satellite? It seems like whatever types of sensors one might put on a balloon could also be put on a satellite. Combine that with the much more reliable trajectory of a satellite and a balloon seems like a bad choice.
Is there non-visual information that a balloon can more easily capture than a satellite? It seems like whatever types of sensors one might put on a balloon could also be put on a satellite. Combine that with the much more reliable trajectory of a satellite and a balloon seems like a bad choice.
Signals intelligence.
Signals intelligence.
What would be an example of signals intelligence that could be better collected by a balloon randomly floating over the planet than a satellite? Is it just that the randomness of the balloon provides the possibility of catching some communication that didn't expect to be caught since satellite locations are known and tracked and as such sensitive communications are managed with that in mind?
iris lilies
2-4-23, 11:10pm
5169
Even though the Chinese balloon was big news in Hermann, yesterday, THIS is the one we get all excited about!
Does China not have satellites that fly over US airspace? That would seem a more efficient and predictable method of spying.
But a great deal more expensive.
What would be an example of signals intelligence that could be better collected by a balloon randomly floating over the planet than a satellite? Is it just that the randomness of the balloon provides the possibility of catching some communication that didn't expect to be caught since satellite locations are known and tracked and as such sensitive communications are managed with that in mind?
Satellites are either very far up (22,236 miles high) and stay in one place, or they are much lower and move fast (Musk's Starlink satellites are 342 miles up, and orbit the Earth in ~90 mins).
A spy balloon a mere ~12 miles up is much closer to faint terrestrial signals, is below the ionization layers in the atmosphere that tend to reflect and interfere with signals, and has a longer time-over-target. If it's maneuverable, it could even be roughly "parked" over a target of interest (*) for quite a while.
That said, I have talked to the ISS, which is at 254 miles altitude, with a simple handheld ham radio "walkie talkie" and a handheld antenna. It's a common amateur radio activity, they put some repeaters on the ISS, and there's an actual ham radio there for the astronauts to use to chat with the public if they feel so motivated.
https://www.ariss.org/contact-the-iss.html
Balloon technology is sort of interesting, I helped out with a project for a university rocketry club where the "first stage" was going to be a high-altitude balloon, that the main rocket then launched from. (A "rockoon", it's an old-timey solution, worth Googling, it's still in use by Crazed Scientists).
(*) If I were a conspiracy nut, I'd connect the dots between the Chinese (Huawei and ZTE) infiltration of rural cell networks that are in regions of strategic interest, like Montana and the Dakotas, and a slow slow balloon loitering over those. Googling will provide a fair amount of discussion of the original issue.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/21/us-telecom-companies-huawei-00047045
Satellites are either very far up (22,236 miles high) and stay in one place, or they are much lower and move fast (Musk's Starlink satellites are 342 miles up, and orbit the Earth in ~90 mins).
A spy balloon a mere ~12 miles up is much closer to faint terrestrial signals, is below the ionization layers in the atmosphere that tend to reflect and interfere with signals, and has a longer time-over-target. If it's maneuverable, it could even be roughly "parked" over a target of interest (*) for quite a while.
That said, I have talked to the ISS, which is at 254 miles altitude, with a simple handheld ham radio "walkie talkie" and a handheld antenna. It's a common amateur radio activity, they put some repeaters on the ISS, and there's an actual ham radio there for the astronauts to use to chat with the public if they feel so motivated.
https://www.ariss.org/contact-the-iss.html
Balloon technology is sort of interesting, I helped out with a project for a university rocketry club where the "first stage" was going to be a high-altitude balloon, that the main rocket then launched from. (A "rockoon", it's an old-timey solution, worth Googling, it's still in use by Crazed Scientists).
(*) If I were a conspiracy nut, I'd connect the dots between the Chinese (Huawei and ZTE) infiltration of rural cell networks that are in regions of strategic interest, like Montana and the Dakotas, and a slow slow balloon loitering over those. Googling will provide a fair amount of discussion of the original issue.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/21/us-telecom-companies-huawei-00047045
In olden times, I worked on a project called ASAT, which had a mission of “negating hostile assets in space”. As you say, most intelligence-gathering assets moved in elliptical orbits to allow their electronic packages to be closer to the Earth’s surface for at least part of the time. Those you wanted to hit as they came over the horizon. The higher geosynchronous orbits were (at least in those days) more generally used in communication and navigation and presented a much different targeting problem.
I understand the Chinese have protested the destruction of their innocent research balloon and have promised to take appropriate measures in the future.
We saw spy balloon over Hermann yesterday. DH took photo, put up on Facebook.
it was right above us.
Did no one else see it?
And you can’t be bothered to share the photo here? IL, I am so disappointed. LOL
iris lilies
2-5-23, 2:18pm
And you can’t be bothered to share the photo here? IL, I am so disappointed. LOL
Our photo was the same boring photo hundreds of thousands have posted on FB.
Satursay .night Live opening sketch was the Chinese balloon.Quite silly when they interviewed the actual balloon.
dado potato
2-5-23, 3:43pm
It was probably a test to see how we would respond. I'll bet they're surprised to see that we didn't.
When you say "we", are you referring to NORAD? From what I have read, the balloon sailed down the expanse of Canada before hovering over Montana "Big Sky Country". I can imagine a modern Billy Bishop, VC, blowing that balloon to smithereens. (Maybe next time.)
I agree that the balloon flight likely was a test (provocation). Stay tuned: Taiwan, Philippines, South China Sea, Panama Canal.
What I caught from the Sunday morning talk shows, the experts also seem to think it was a test to see how we would react. It doesn't quite explain the one over Latin America.
When you say "we", are you referring to NORAD? From what I have read, the balloon sailed down the expanse of Canada before hovering over Montana "Big Sky Country". I can imagine a modern Billy Bishop, VC, blowing that balloon to smithereens. (Maybe next time.)
I agree that the balloon flight likely was a test (provocation). Stay tuned: Taiwan, Philippines, South China Sea, Panama Canal.
According to NOAA the balloon's flight path is as follows, NORAD undoubtedly picked it up well before it reached Alaska so it could have been safely dealt with before reaching populated areas. I suppose Canada could have done the same as it wandered across the Yukon Territory but that's on them.
It seems to me that this test of our National Security preparedness and resolve will result in more blatant incursions in the future.
https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/329436522_1614028959019317_2513484348391520677_n.p ng?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=75PG79ko0uUAX_G15tL&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=03_AdRyLHVuPIPaQB-gcJPuuG9idkEYbJR7f4tQj_0-L0u-XA&oe=6407A425
Actually this is apparently the fourth time it has happened.
https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3288543/f-22-safely-shoots-down-chinese-spy-balloon-off-south-carolina-coast/
“The balloon did not pose a military or physical threat. Still its intrusion into American airspace over several days was an unacceptable violation of U.S. sovereignty. The official said Chinese balloons briefly transited the continental United States at least three times during the prior administration. ”
I'm having trouble linking together "over populated areas" and "Alaska/Yukon/BC/Montana". I also find some of the media claims of "XX,XXX square miles would be endangered if we brought it down".
I also find the claim "poses no military threat" silly on the face of it.
I suspect there's some behind-the-scenes info the media, and we, don't have access to. Which is how it should be, at least for now.
“The balloon did not pose a military or physical threat. Still its intrusion into American airspace over several days was an unacceptable violation of U.S. sovereignty. The official said Chinese balloons briefly transited the continental United States at least three times during the prior administration. ”
The prior administration referred to his three as "fake disinformation" that did not occur.
The prior administration referred to his three as "fake disinformation" that did not occur.
It's odd that no one in the previous administration has knowledge of those three incidents and no eyewitnesses have appeared to confirm the story. I wonder why?
It's odd that no one in the previous administration has knowledge of those three incidents and no eyewitnesses have appeared to confirm the story. I wonder why?
I'm sure Q will have an "explanation" for that soon so that the republicans can try again with new talking points since their first ones failed so embarrassingly. As it stands now it appears that the US faced four tests and failed the first three.
Facts no longer matter in US political discourse.
iris lilies
2-5-23, 7:43pm
Facts no longer matter in US political discourse.
Once facts can be established, then they matter.
Those who should be putting forth facts do not. necessarily. Look, I do not think everything is a conspiracy, but by the time one politico talking head sends out his side of the story, then the spinning continues.
I'm sure Q will have an "explanation" for that soon so that the republicans can try again with new talking points since their first ones failed so embarrassingly. As it stands now it appears that the US faced four tests and failed the first three.
LOL, all the "talking points" on this one seem to be coming from the other side. I read somewhere today that a "senior defense official" (not sure if it's the same one making the original claim) today has said something to the effect that "two things can be true at once, the prior events happened but went undetected" until some recent time.
So far, no "facts" have been verified and no eyewitnesses have come forward, maybe that will change in the next few days, but if not I'll be anxiously awaiting your take on who Q really is.
gimmethesimplelife
2-5-23, 8:39pm
Spy balloons are nothing
new. For several months last year, US CBP had one parked over residential Nogales, AZ. Very scary. Rob
LOL, all the "talking points" on this one seem to be coming from the other side. I read somewhere today that a "senior defense official" (not sure if it's the same one making the original claim) today has said something to the effect that "two things can be true at once, the prior events happened but went undetected" until some recent time.
So far, no "facts" have been verified and no eyewitnesses have come forward, maybe that will change in the next few days, but if not I'll be anxiously awaiting your take.
I guess you don't remember 20ish years ago the "we make our own reality" party who thought they could BS their way into a successful war in the middle east.
If republicans actually wanted facts about this the house would launch an investigation. They are all hot to trot with investigations but somehow I suspect that this is one where they'd just as soon the truth remain buried if they can help it. I don't blame them when one considers that the commander in chief at the time of these other 3 balloons would surely not have wanted to interfere in the business relationships of his favorite sexy daughter and would therefore have had a reason to just let it slide if no one had noticed them.
gimmethesimplelife
2-5-23, 9:48pm
I am worried. This could be the act(s) of a country testing the waters before potential military aggression. Hopefully I'm wrong as usual. Rob
I am worried. This could be the act(s) of a country testing the waters before potential military aggression. Hopefully I'm wrong as usual. Rob
Don’t worry. Biden, unlike the last president, passed the test with flying colors. We’ll be fine.
I guess you don't remember 20ish years ago the "we make our own reality" party who thought they could BS their way into a successful war in the middle east.
If republicans actually wanted facts about this the house would launch an investigation. They are all hot to trot with investigations but somehow I suspect that this is one where they'd just as soon the truth remain buried if they can help it. I don't blame them when one considers that the commander in chief at the time of these other 3 balloons would surely not have wanted to interfere in the business relationships of his favorite sexy daughter and would therefore have had a reason to just let it slide if no one had noticed them.
From what I’m reading, you are likely to get your wish. If the who-knew-what-when answers prove inconsistent with the approved narrative, we will no doubt get another “Republicans pounce” story.
From what I’m reading, you are likely to get your wish. If the who-knew-what-when answers prove inconsistent with the approved narrative, we will no doubt get another “Republicans pounce” story.
If MTG actually makes that happen I will be impressed at her for once demanding a worthwhile investigation. It’s anyone’s guess what would come out of such an investigation. Did the DOD actually not tell trump about the balloons when they came across the US? That in itself would be remarkable and worthy of an investigation.
littlebittybobby
2-12-23, 12:22pm
What it was, was loads of leaflets---propaganda leaflets---with Quotes by Chairman Mao & Karl Marx. Just betcha. Yup.
US just shot down another one over Lake Huron.
US just shot down another one over Lake Huron.
So, so far the tally is:
- giant balloon last week
- UFO over Alaska Friday
- UFO over Yukon Saturday
- UFO today, Sunday
It might not be a good time to be legitimate extraterrestrials intending to save humans from ourselves.
It might not be a good time to be legitimate extraterrestrials intending to save humans from ourselves.
If I were ETs, I'd just put up a couple of Youtube videos after I hacked into the SpaceX satellite datastreams, and I'd do it with a drone from far far far away.
They just released a photo of the wreckage of the one shot down over the Yukon:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/thething/images/3/39/The_buried_UFO_%28The_Thing_-1982%29.png/
This is getting interesting...
Operation Deflation seems well underway. I feel sorry for the first pilot who misses one.
iris lilies
2-13-23, 3:56pm
If one of these balloon/objects were shot down over Canada, why didn’t the Canadians shoot it down?
If one of these balloon/objects were shot down over Canada, why didn’t the Canadians shoot it down?
Something about "North American Aerospace Defense Command"...
The two nations jointly defend our shared airspace.
https://www.norad.mil/
There will probably be an official explanation soon. I don't think it's unusual to use high altitude balloons for weather and atmospheric observation and research. The first had an identifiable source but no one is talking about the other three. (Even Roswell was a weather balloon).
There will probably be an official explanation soon. I don't think it's unusual to use high altitude balloons for weather and atmospheric observation and research. The first had an identifiable source but no one is talking about the other three. (Even Roswell was a weather balloon).
I suspect Roswell was this item, or a similar object, which is on display at the White Sands Missile Range: (It's an old NASA planetary lander testbed, they used to fly them, well, quite near Roswell.)
https://i.imgur.com/qzN7qXF.jpg
In my local newspaper today:
||| FROM NORAD & US NORTHCOM |||
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado – North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) will conduct a planned, live-fly air defense exercise off the coast of British Columbia and Washington State today.
A variety of American and Canadian NORAD aircraft, including fighter aircraft, will operate at high altitude.
This exercise is in no way related to recent NORAD and U.S. Northern Command operations associated with airborne objects over North America during the last two weeks.
To test responses, systems and equipment, NORAD routinely conducts air defense exercises using a variety of scenarios, including airspace restriction violations, hijackings and responding to unknown aircraft. All NORAD exercises are carefully planned and closely controlled.
The defense of Canada and the United States is NORAD’s top priority and we are on alert 24/7/365. This air defense exercise supports Operation NOBLE EAGLE, the name given to air sovereignty and air defense missions in North America. For 60 years, NORAD aircraft have identified and intercepted potential air threats to North America in the execution of its aerospace warning and aerospace control missions.
This exercise is in no way related to recent NORAD and U.S. Northern Command operations associated with airborne objects over North America during the last two weeks.
For some reason I'm not quite buying that line.
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