View Full Version : Too much religion
I was raised Catholic but stopped being religious in any sense years ago so all the morality and religiosity floating around lately seems weird adn cultish. We are still considering a move back to Texas to be near family but when I see the direction the state is headed, I might reconsider...Today, in the Texas Legislature a bill was passed by the Senate stating that public schools would have to display the Ten Commandments. Additionally, they passed a bill that would set prayer and Bible reading times during the school day. When we look at houses in smaller towns in central TX, just about every house has crosses all over the walls or on the front door. It makes me think they are warding off vampires there are so many. I wish I understood...
Evangelicals are a weird bunch. I don’t get them.
I don’t know how all of this would work and assume there are work around in schools, but I seem to recall a day when the daily recitation of the Lord’s Prayer was banned in public schools?
I don’t know how all of this would work and assume there are work around in schools, but I seem to recall a day when the daily recitation of the Lord’s Prayer was banned in public schools?
~1962 or so. I was still in the womb.
I suspect people Not Of The Approved Religion probably objected to their tax dollars being used for the State to impose a particular religious practice on their kids.
Looks like parts of the US are keen to go back to The Old Days though.
Grew up in Alaska where everyone was working too hard to care about what religion someone else practiced. Until the Pipeline started bringing up Texans and Baptists and all kinds of groups. Suddenly the way we existed was not "good enough" or "religious enough" and their ideas were somehow what everyone should believe.
Gave me a very negative view of large organized religions.
rosarugosa
4-21-23, 6:22am
You couldn't pay me enough to visit Texas, let alone live there.
iris lilies
4-21-23, 7:24am
You couldn't pay me enough to visit Texas, let alone live there.
And yet, the pipeline of persons moving from California to Texas, well, Austin, is a recognized social trend.
I expect those Californians will have an effect on the Texans in many ways.
It is too bad that religion is co-opted by imperfect people. MLK said that "most churches are social clubs with a thin veneer of religiosity". He could have said "social cliques" complete rules for inclusion and shunning.
I have been relatively "pious" religion-wise all of my life, dabbling in Catholicism, Protestantism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism and on and on, so I don't hold ill-will toward religion per see--OTOH I find no fault with those who have run from their religious past because of people who have bastardized the heart of it. I'm one of those who has abandoned her religion. DH has found a church he loves--he has missed going for many years and he finds comfort and purpose there. Even though I'm the one with the 12 years of Catholic school and aspirations to be a nun, I don't go with him. I just can't, and I can't put a finger on why. The people who go to his church are very nice, and the congregation does good things.
So it pains me when people throw the religion baby out with the bathwater. As much bad has come out of organized religion, a lot of good has come out of it, too, and continues to be.
I dont think Austin is really "Texas" anymore. Just as Raleigh and the suburbs really does not represent NC anymore. Living there was like living on a planet with all transplated people. In fact, Cary, NC was derogatorily called Containment Area for Rude Yankees. The only real NC person I felt I met was the cashier at a grocery store and the people in the rural areas of the state. Did not help that we were in the suburbs.
iris lilies
4-21-23, 9:08am
It is too bad that religion is co-opted by imperfect people. MLK said that "most churches are social clubs with a thin veneer of religiosity". He could have said "social cliques" complete rules for inclusion and shunning.
I have been relatively "pious" religion-wise all of my life, dabbling in Catholicism, Protestantism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism and on and on, so I don't hold ill-will toward religion per see--OTOH I find no fault with those who have run from their religious past because of people who have bastardized the heart of it. I'm one of those who has abandoned her religion. DH has found a church he loves--he has missed going for many years and he finds comfort and purpose there. Even though I'm the one with the 12 years of Catholic school and aspirations to be a nun, I don't go with him. I just can't, and I can't put a finger on why. The people who go to his church are very nice, and the congregation does good things.
So it pains me when people throw the religion baby out with the bathwater. As much bad has come out of organized religion, a lot of good has come out of it, too, and continues to be.
As a lifelong atheist, I find the superiority of the atheist as tiresome as the “other” side.
Like you say, don’t throw the entire faith baby out with the bath water. Take what is good, leave the rest.
I don't have an issue with a person needing religion in their life but when they wear it on their sleeve and use it to control others I do. Re Austin: I lived there for thirty five years and loved most of them up until it became flooded with people from somewhere else looking to cash in. It has always been an island of free thinkers/innovators and differs wildly from the rest of the state.
I don't find the concept of displaying the Ten Commandments in classrooms particularly egregious, but it does seem like The Four Noble Truths should have equal time.
I don't find the concept of displaying the Ten Commandments in classrooms particularly egregious, but it does seem like The Four Noble Truths should have equal time.
How do you pick which religions get to have their materials presented in the classroom?
How do you pick which religions get to have their materials presented in the classroom?
I think that was my point, but maybe I failed in presentation. Which is the true religion, if any. I could see educational courses in the religions of the world, or histories of religions as having a place in public schools. So maybe there is a place for religion in the school system.
rosarugosa
4-21-23, 3:17pm
I think that was my point, but maybe I failed in presentation. Which is the true religion, if any. I could see educational courses in the religions of the world, or histories of religions as having a place in public schools. So maybe there is a place for religion in the school system.
Yes, I took a mythology course in HS, and that is exactly where it belongs.
I've been a non-believer as long as I can remember, and I find the idea of living somewhere with blatantly pro-Christian (it's always Christian) laws and lawmakers horrifying. People all up in your face asking if you've accepted Christ in your life, what church you go to, ad nauseum is the stuff nightmares are made of, IMO. I'm thankful to live in the PNW where people keep their religions, if any, to themselves and their laws secular, as it should be.
I've probably mentioned before that my aunt had nothing good to say about "religionists" while she was alive, so it's merciful that she died before her granddaughter's over-the-top Christian fervor (where did that come from?) came to light.
I know I've also mentioned an inordinate number of the afore-mentioned religionists in my family tree, including my great-grandfather the Evangelical Lutheran pastor and my almost-a-nun grandmother who birthed a large family of faithless offspring.
Portuguese John Here
4-22-23, 2:22pm
My father was raised in a priest's school, it's not a big deal in Portugal, we are a very religious country. He reads the bible every day, although, and this seems difficult for people to understand, he hates the Catholic religion. What he dislikes is the organization, is the selling of Jesus Christ, God. J. Krishnamurti used to say a joke, to him, it was a joke: Two friends strolling across a dirty street, one of them stops, leans over, and picks up a leaf, and says: Look, I picked up truth. The other replies: Oh, that is great... let's organize it.
My friends all went to church, they did all the traditions, I never went, my father and mother said I'd choose, or not choose, when I grew up. I've never choosen, never will. I've read the bible, my friends never did, it's a very rich book, if you understand its parables. I've also read the sutras, not at, but many, also very rich. I've also read the Taoist books, my favorites. The point of organized religion is sharing, although, people like to divide themselves, more and more nowadays. Always, one thing fighting another. I am not an atheist, I am not a Catholic, I am not a Buddhist, to be any of those, is aggression. Any form is nationalism, partisanship, is aggression, it creates division. When truth is concerned, religion has no part in it, although, I can't affirm it's useless.
I think Putting the Ten Commandments in schools is disturbing. I also think people dismissing religion and demonizing it is disturbing. So there you have it.
I've been a non-believer as long as I can remember, and I find the idea of living somewhere with blatantly pro-Christian (it's always Christian) laws and lawmakers horrifying. People all up in your face asking if you've accepted Christ in your life, what church you go to, ad nauseum is the stuff nightmares are made of, IMO. I'm thankful to live in the PNW where people keep their religions, if any, to themselves and their laws secular, as it should be.
I've probably mentioned before that my aunt had nothing good to say about "religionists" while she was alive, so it's merciful that she died before her granddaughter's over-the-top Christian fervor (where did that come from?) came to light.
I know I've also mentioned an inordinate number of the afore-mentioned religionists in my family tree, including my great-grandfather the Evangelical Lutheran pastor and my almost-a-nun grandmother who birthed a large family of faithless offspring.
The Evangelical Protestants are the worst offenders of the in your face religion. Can’t stand them. They make me ill. I grew up Catholic, lapsed for 10 years after graduation from Catholic high school, spent a few years as an Episcopalian, now Orthodox for 20 years.
There are a lot of church going people who don't push it off on others and are very decent people and good citizens to have in the community. The fundamentalists who insist on overlaying their religion into politics might be something of a regional thing, like the red states. Both my neighbors are regular church goers and each asked if I would like to attend their church services just once and that was the end of it. One is Democrat and one Republican is it matters that much. I'm lucky to have such good neighbors.
My collage room mate was something of a Belushi of Animal House in the day, but married a Mormon woman and is now in their inner circle of some sort. He has pushed the religion thing a few times and has something of the, I'm going to heaven and you're not, a bothersome superiority complex, but we are still friends. I know that if I were ever in a fix or was in dire need of and he would be there to help. I can't say that of all of my friends.
I guess I just don't have much experience with the fundamental evangelical types. It has been some what bothersome that Trump has violated several of the ten commandments, yet he seems to be one of their champions. On the other hand there are the Jehovahs and Quakers who might have their own quirks, but are at least true to the "do not kill" commandment.
If one reads and believes the news, this ultra-conservative religious bent is gaining steam in many areas. The divisions will undo us.
In a desultory search of genealogical records once, I came across records indicating that someone (I can guess which dorky branch of the family) had my poor almost-a-nun grandmother consecrated in records of the LDS church. Shouldn't that be illegal? It seems like a violation to me. Only half kidding.
In a desultory search of genealogical records once, I came across records indicating that someone (I can guess which dorky branch of the family) had my poor almost-a-nun grandmother consecrated in records of the LDS church. Shouldn't that be illegal? It seems like a violation to me. Only half kidding.
That’s the LDS thing to do. Baptize the dead. Apparently why they manage such extensive genealogy records.
That’s the LDS thing to do. Baptize the dead. Apparently why they manage such extensive genealogy records.
I've read that; it's a mixed blessing, I guess.
Yeah, it's shocking when you first encounter it, but now I am used to it and glad that someone remembers these folks, and is trying to do the right thing. But I can certainly see why it feels offensive and have felt that offense myself, but I think I've gone on to neutral about it now, it's just what they believe.
catherine
4-24-23, 12:04pm
My mother hooked up with LDS folks a couple of years before she died. They were wonderful to her, and I was very grateful to them because I was 2-1/2 hours away with a young family of four kids and largely absent husband. So when she died I invited her friends from the church, and they openly disapproved of the decision (my mother's) to cremate her, so that was an indication to me that they do believe that you rise bodily into heaven and hang out with all your earthly friends and family.
I figure that, in terms of what happens to your body after death, what's good enough for bodily remains of the millions that were gassed and burned during World War II is good enough for me. "Je ne suis pas mon corps."
We have a LDS church and several large families nearby. They are always reservedly pleasant yet definitely stick to themselves. One family has five girls who do neighborhood chores. I kind of feel for the girls as they never leave the house except to go to church or do chores. I guess home schooling and religious study takes up a lot of their time too.
flowerseverywhere
4-24-23, 3:12pm
I hear you in Florida. Florida and Texas are attempting to race to the bottom. Our governor, DeSantis (coincidentally spell check changed his name to Vendetta). Is waging the war on woke in the name of christianity. The LBGTQ community is targeted, Attempts at book bans, colleges, drag shows, abortion all but totally illegal. some people are worshiping him as they did Trump while he flies around the country and now overseas on taxpayer money testing the presidential waters. Dont get me started on all the money wasted on Disney, with $750/ hr. Lawyers racking up bills to the state. Stay tuned for prayer to Jesus in schools while loosening gun laws so we can compete for most gun related deaths with other southern states.
it has totally changed to in the past 12 years I have lived here. I would never live here if I had kids.
But here is the ridiculous part. There are a lot of sex shops, with billboards on the highway next to anti-abortion ones. I guess it is evil loose women vs. Men "sowing their wild oats, nod nod, winkwink".
early morning
4-24-23, 3:17pm
I guess there are differences in LDS like any other group... non of my LDS friends homeschooled their kids, and boys and girls alike at the ward I am closest to are out and about, working and encouraged to be a part of the community where they live. While I am an atheist and make no bones about it, I have always been welcomed into church events at the ward and stake level, invited to lectures friends thought would be of interest to me, and even led classes in rug-making at the homemaker's group in "our" ward. I also enjoy talking to the young missionaries when I encounter them. I have grave objections to the male-dominated hierarchy structure of the church, which they are quite upfront about, but it is their choice. I am no doubt influenced by the kindness of the individual LDS people I know and have known, and by my fascination with their history. I find the histories of many religions really interesting (and sometimes really repugnant!)
iris lilies
4-24-23, 3:19pm
I hear you in Florida. Florida and Texas are attempting to race to the bottom. Our governor, DeSantis (coincidentally spell check changed his name to Vendetta). Is waging the war on woke in the name of christianity. The LBGTQ community is targeted, Attempts at book bans, colleges, drag shows, abortion all but totally illegal. some people are worshiping him as they did Trump while he flies around the country and now overseas on taxpayer money testing the presidential waters. Dont get me started on all the money wasted on Disney, with $750/ hr. Lawyers racking up bills to the state. Stay tuned for prayer to Jesus in schools while loosening gun laws so we can compete for most gun related deaths with other southern states.
it has totally changed to in the past 12 years I have lived here. I would never live here if I had kids.
But here is the ridiculous part. There are a lot of sex shops, with billboards on the highway next to anti-abortion ones. I guess it is evil loose women vs. Men "sowing their wild oats, nod nod, winkwink".
governor DeSantis is making many of his constituents, happy in his state, so that’s not a bad thing. Whether or not that translates to the entire country remains to be seen.
I heard several non-Trump conservatives discuss DeSantis’ current status and they are not happy with his Disney decision. Some other things are not looking good. He does not have the gladhanding people skills that DJ Trump has, and that is unfortunate.
I guess there are differences in LDS like any other group...
My sister had a period of her life when she and her husband were criminals. And not especially clever criminals.
She got caught in Utah doing some crime, and during her processing by the criminal justice system there, her public defense attorney, the prosecutor, and the judge approved a plea deal for her that did not involve her going to prison.
The deal *did* involve her working as a household servant in the prosecutor's home for several years. And her being required to do community service time at the local Mormon church, teaching and doing janitorial work for free. And her conversion to the Mormon church.
The judge, prosecutor, and public defender were all pious Mormon gentlemen.
The whole situation seemed very skeevy to me....
Her husband spent several years in prison, he was not offered a deal.
flowerseverywhere
4-25-23, 6:01am
governor DeSantis is making many of his constituents, happy in his state, so that’s not a bad thing. Whether or not that translates to the entire country remains to be seen.
I heard several non-Trump conservatives discuss DeSantis’ current status and they are not happy with his Disney decision. Some other things are not looking good. He does not have the gladhanding people skills that DJ Trump has, and that is unfortunate.
I'm not sure he is so popular. Trump is wildly popular here.DeSantis is did extremely well with the hurricane, for several days on site 24/7 trying to get people help.
He has been MIA with the recent flooding, has made a mess of the Disney debacle and with the legislature has made education rules that may result in many seniors unable to graduate on time. His constant use of "woke" is extremely popular with some, not so much with others. Plus the six week abortion ban, when a woman not even know she is pregnant, is not in line with the majority of country. Time will tell, because polls have shown us they are not very accurate.
iris lilies
4-25-23, 7:26am
I'm not sure he is so popular. Trump is wildly popular here.DeSantis is did extremely well with the hurricane, for several days on site 24/7 trying to get people help.
He has been MIA with the recent flooding, has made a mess of the Disney debacle and with the legislature has made education rules that may result in many seniors unable to graduate on time. His constant use of "woke" is extremely popular with some, not so much with others. Plus the six week abortion ban, when a woman not even know she is pregnant, is not in line with the majority of country. Time will tell, because polls have shown us they are not very accurate.
He won his seat in the last election strongly. That’s what I was basing his popularity on.
He won his seat in the last election strongly. That’s what I was facing his popularity on.
Yes, but is he popular with the right sort of people? It doesn’t matter what the hoi polloi think if the cognoscenti have arrived at their verdict.
I generally like the guy, although I think he should emphasize his record running Florida over tweaking the tail of the woke beast.
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