View Full Version : Seniors who refuse to ask for help
We have the weirdest situation with a senior at my church. She’s about 75ish without much money. Her son had allowed her to live rent free in a house he owns for years. Mom pays for utilities and some upkeep. For some years, mom has also been allowed to drive an older car that belongs to daughter in law (son’s wife). For whatever reason, daughter in law is now selling the car to a friend of hers and mom won’t have any car to drive.
Meals on wheels comes in the morning. She has some sort of a household aide who comes in the early afternoon. All medical appts are later afternoon.
Senior has cancelled all medical appts because she no longer has a car to drive. There’s local senior transport for medical appts, but it stops at 3pm, too early for her appts. Plenty of people at church have offered to drive her to appts, but she’s a stubborn old broad and refuses to ask for help. I will say she seems to have something of an entitled attitude. She constantly says she and her siblings provided their mother whatever she wanted, so she seems to think her son should give her whatever she wants. Mind you, she’s already living rent free.
Senior says she has never asked for help and doesn’t intend to start now. She got her nose really bent out of shape when I told her she must have asked for help at least one time, or how did she start getting the household aide? She refused to answer that. I don’t know if the aide is a senior benefit from local govt or what. I don’t think she pays for side.
Let’s hear your stories of stubborn old coots.
sweetana3
5-29-23, 10:55am
I have a mother in law who is 91 and no longer speaking to me so her son has to do everything. Problem: She won't tell him anything. So round and round it goes. Before she stopped talking to me she said she needed some new pants. Have told my husband twice but it is now up to him to do something. They both are so passive aggressive it is beyond belief.
I have this attitude in my family and in myself, I think. Maybe she would prefer to expire on her own time?
I have this attitude in my family and in myself, I think. Maybe she would prefer to expire on her own time?
Well, if that was the case, you would have think she’d have stopped going to the doctor well before she lost use of the car. It really all looks like a temper tantrum. You won’t let me have a car to drive so I’m going to stop going to the doctor. Wah!
iris lilies
5-29-23, 11:25am
Oh, I’m running into it all the time because I’m in that age bracket. It’s only a matter of time for me…
The latest one is a fellow plant Society person. She is overweight and has trouble walking. Her husband died of cancer a couple of years ago. She has a nice older small house with a nice garden, but her house has a bathroom only on the second floor.
A couple of years ago she said belligerently “they aren’t going to push me out of this house, that won’t be happening. “I think the “they “are her daughters. Fast forward to recent months. She had leg surgery, and then she had eye surgery. She was laid up. I don’t know who is taking care of her, but I do know that a fellow plant Society person ran food errands for her. And… That did not go well .
I do not believe the daughters were doing a whole lot for her.
I do not understand wanting to live in a place where it falls down around your ears and you can’t take care of it. But I know with absolute certainty that will be DH because he does not see when things need to be fixed, cleaned, painted, and repaired. He’s brilliant at building things. Maintenance? not so much.
I have utmost admiration for the several people I know, in their late 70s and up, who move themselves to easily maintained assisted-living or condo places. Those are the people who have the most engagement within their community, I think. It’s these people who understand they cannot, and do not wish to, maintain physical property that’s extensive anymore, but they are big on socializing, maintaining their automobiles, going places and doing things. They are the people I want to be.
Yeah, I hear you about respecting people like that. Unfortunately, while some of my people are good at maintaining things, and thankfully, I have that gene, they are not good about knowing when to throw in the towel.
I'm that person. I would be thrilled if a flock of flying monkeys would swoop down and relocate me, but though I keep scanning the sky, it's not happening.
I can see where I am fast approaching an age where moving seems insurmountable so need to get out of a house with so many stairs. MIL would have been gone years ago but her DD waits on her hand and foot. One of several reasons we moved so far away. DHs parents were so smothering with expectations that I needed to be free of it.
frugal-one
5-29-23, 9:13pm
I asked for help for the first time in years. Asked DS to help us get ready for move. He came for 2 days and did an amazing job. We still have LOTS to do but he paved the way. We were starting to become overwhelmed and the extra help alleviated the anxiety. Thankfully, I was able to convince DH it was time to go. I am psyched to go to a smaller place with low maintenance and people my own age and many activities. I knew if something happened to DH, I could not take care of the house. If something happened to me, he would have been better prepared but why have this large of house for one person? The inspection is tomorrow and if all goes well... we have to be out by the 30th! We are getting rid of all and starting over. The timing was right for our area. There are VERY few older homes for sale in our town (only 3 when we put house on market), demand and prices are high. It is time to move and "age in place" as they say.
Teacher Terry
5-29-23, 10:28pm
My parents were realistic and wanted to take care of themselves. They sold their house and moved into an apartment. I helped because they were great parents. I have followed in their footsteps and my kids are the same as me.
I asked for help from DS last week when we bought the car--asked if he would go shopping with us, as I thought a younger presence might help dissuade the dealers we were old fogies who they could push around.
Turns out we did not need him since we bought from a dealer who was my husband's age and liked the fact that we were older-- got the deal done in about 45 minutes.
frugal-one
5-30-23, 8:15am
That’s cool, Tybee!
My MIL was a stubborn old coot but not in a way that frustrated or angered us. She was just used to being independent, self-reliant and hard-working, and she never made big demands on us--at least not in the sense of helping her with physical or material needs. She had an unspoken expectation that we all take care of each other--she had had the same reciprocal arrangement with her parents, and we complied with that. She had her own expectations of herself--such as she would never, ever walk with a cane, and she never did. She would never, ever borrow money from anyone or buy something that she didn't have money for, and she never did. Her mantra in her Glaswegian accent was always "I'll no' hae it." ("I won't have it"--meaning sickness or poverty). Of course, she did get sick in her later years and we were there to take her to doctor's appointments, etc.
I am on the cusp of the age of your 75 y.o. coot, and I know I'm going to have to battle my own resistance to asking for help. We'll see how it goes.
There very well could be some dementia going on. A long term friend, who lives just down the street and also goes to our church, offered to bring her to church whenever the senior wants. She refused.
Her granddaughter is getting married in a few weeks. She’s cancelled her RSVP because she can’t get there under her own power. Everyone has offered her a ride to the wedding/reception and she’s turned them down. Granddaughter is very upset her granny won’t be there, but granny doesn’t apparently care about anything but her own pride.
There very well could be some dementia going on. A long term friend, who lives just down the street and also goes to our church, offered to bring her to church whenever the senior wants. She refused.
Her granddaughter is getting married in a few weeks. She’s cancelled her RSVP because she can’t get there under her own power. Everyone has offered her a ride to the wedding/reception and she’s turned them down. Granddaughter is very upset her granny won’t be there, but granny doesn’t apparently care about anything but her own pride.
Dementia is way different than pride. Think of it as brain damage, agoraphobia--would you say the person doesn't care about anything but their own pride? No doubt there is fear underneath there.
Dementia is way different than pride. Think of it as brain damage, agoraphobia--would you say the person doesn't care about anything but their own pride? No doubt there is fear underneath there.
Well, I thought it was just pride until she said she is refusing to go to granddaughter’s wedding because she can’t get there under her own power.
Well, I thought it was just pride until she said she is refusing to go to granddaughter’s wedding because she can’t get there under her own power.
I wouldn't judge her, as you have no idea what fears she really has. Getting old can be hell.
I wouldn't judge her, as you have no idea what fears she really has. Getting old can be hell.
At this point, we’re about ready to wash our hands of her, including the friend that lives down the street from her. The family can deal with since she’s refused all offers of help from us. We had a group chat about the situation last night. The friend who lives down the street told her to quit calling her to bellyache about no longer having a car to drive. She doesn’t want help and wants to isolate herself? She’s pretty much gotten her wish.
Old age is a series of losses. Some great some little but all losses. We lose physical abilities and health. We lose people and their relationships. We lose independence and choice. We lose home, whatever that means to each of us.
As in the stages of grief, we each can make it to acceptance or get stuck along the way. Old age is just a series of losses that some can handle much easier than others. It cannot be fixed but must be endured.
iris lilies
5-30-23, 8:00pm
Tradd will be proud of me because today I got help by hiring somebody to mulch a difficult part of my yard that I’ve not been able to get to. I’ve been dreading it, and this morning I finally went out to fill 5 gallon buckets full of wood chip “mulch “that DH brought home in his trailer from the city dump site.
Well, this is not mulch. This is well rotted stuff that might’ve started out as wood chips, but now it’s compost. compost is nice but I already have a load of Primo Compost of a particular kind for my lilies.
Teacher Terry
5-31-23, 10:43am
As everyone has said that woman may have other issues that have nothing to do with being stubborn. Too bad someone doesn’t take the time to have an understanding conversation and ask her what is her biggest fear now that she doesn’t have a car. Younger people don’t understand the challenges of aging and as others have noted it’s unfortunately all about loss.
iris lilies
5-31-23, 10:53am
This is only the second time in my life that I have hired someone to mulch a garden area, and this isn’t even my entire garden area. It’s just a place where it’s hard to get to and bottom line, I don’t want to do it.
happystuff
5-31-23, 11:59am
As everyone has said that woman may have other issues that have nothing to do with being stubborn. Too bad someone doesn’t take the time to have an understanding conversation and ask her what is her biggest fear now that she doesn’t have a car. Younger people don’t understand the challenges of aging and as others have noted it’s unfortunately all about loss.
Agree with this 100%! When my mom finally lost her license (not her idea, unfortunately), she felt lost, alone, inadequate, etc. Fortunately, time and family have shown her that she is none of those things.
As everyone has said that woman may have other issues that have nothing to do with being stubborn. Too bad someone doesn’t take the time to have an understanding conversation and ask her what is her biggest fear now that she doesn’t have a car. Younger people don’t understand the challenges of aging and as others have noted it’s unfortunately all about loss.
Well, she won’t talk to any of us at church, including pastor. She told us she won’t bother talking to her kids. None of us have the son’s contact information so we can’t urge him to talk to mom.
Well I had no problem asking for help. I made a very succinct list of things I’d like done, asked my grandson, who came with a buddy, and we spent 2.5 hours working outside. They power washed the far side of the house that gets muddy from the trees, checked the gutters (they were fine), put a new vinyl canopy over the back deck, shoveled out 2 huge barrels of dried oak leaves from the back corner, tied up the wisteria that had broken loose in the last wind storm, and pulled stuff out of the shed so I could rearrange/ stack for summer, and set aside several things to sell and/or give away. Grandson appreciated my clarity- I had given him the list ahead of time so he could plan sequence and time needed. I worked adjacent to them on things I am perfectly capable of doing. And truth be told, I could have done all of it but it would have taken me far longer, and, like Iris Lillie’s, I just didn’t want to do it. Much more efficient to get help. I was thrilled to have it all done, and the guys left with a tidy sum and a great feeling of accomplishment as well.
Well, we had to cry uncle this morning. We are sanding our floors. DH picked up the orbital sander at the rental place last night. Because they loaded it onto the truck for us, we had. no idea how HEAVY those things are!!
After risking serious injury trying to get it off the truck and up the 5 steps to the house, we stuck it in our shed for the night and put out an APB to the kids. DSs 2 & 3 are coming to the rescue in a half hour. Someone will have to return to help us load it back onto the truck.
I’m gimpy with knee/sciatica issues. If someone - either a friend or someone I don’t know - offers to help schlepp gear when I’m diving, I don’t turn down the offer. Maybe I’m naturally lazy. :moon: Either way, I’m not going to hurt myself. If I need help, I’ll ask for it.
iris lilies
6-1-23, 10:22am
There might be an element of passive aggressive reaction in the initial story Tradd tells about this lady. Yes, I’m sure she is unhappy with her reduced freedom. But not going to her granddaughter’s wedding? That’s pretty extreme. I will bet she relents and eventually attends it.
One of our friends had a mother who was passive aggressive. She lived across the state line about a 30 minute drive away. She was frail and elderly and kept falling and not being able to get up. But she would say things like “oh it’s so much trouble for you to help me move, I just can’t move. “ Yet , of course he had to deal with her house, her grounds, etc. which were a lot of trouble.
Of course, the reason why she wouldn’t move had little to do with causing him trouble, she would not move because she did not want to move.
she refused to use a walker, you know that makes you look old. Yet, every time she went someplace with her kids, she clung to them for balance.
She was hospitalized for something but discharged herself and left. Her kids were all putting their heads together to figure out how to take care of mom, and my neighbor was spending his work from home days at her house. Then, she died, so that was a blessing in disguise.
iris lilies
6-2-23, 9:56am
Ugh. I was in the city for one day and came home to Hermann to find that DH had mulched the entire bed that I had hired out. So we won’t be paying someone to do it after all, this old man I live with did it. But the thing is, he has important work to do, not mulching. I’m a little annoyed with him.
Old age is a series of losses. Some great some little but all losses. We lose physical abilities and health. We lose people and their relationships. We lose independence and choice. We lose home, whatever that means to each of us.
As in the stages of grief, we each can make it to acceptance or get stuck along the way. Old age is just a series of losses that some can handle much easier than others. It cannot be fixed but must be endured.
Very well said.
iris lilies
6-3-23, 11:37am
Very well said.
This reminds me what Jane Fonda recent,y told Julia Louis Dreyfus on a podcast: when you get to your mid 80s it’s really not as bad as what you feared it would be.
this is, of course, coming from someone who is hyper vigilant about maintaining her health, she does strength training every day, etc.
My mom just turned 85 and has been constantly falling and hurting herself at home. Last year she fell and broke some ribs but never called for help nor wanted to even go to the hospital when one of us found out she had hurt herself. A couple weeks ago, she fell again and laid on the floor overnight until she could crawl to a phone to call my sister to come get her up. She refuses to leave her house which has become a hoarded mess. She refuses to get any type of "Life Alert" gadget that she could push to summons help because she doesn't want strangers seeing her hoarded house. She won't look into any type of laundry service because she can't get down the stairs to do laundry so she has 3-4 years worth of clothes piled up in her room and just buys new clothes when needed. She has a dog for company but can't keep up with the grooming so the dog is a matted mess. Vet actually threatened to call and have the dog taken away due to neglect. Mom did get it groomed so it wouldn't be taken away but it's a matted mess again. The dog isn't house trained either so she has puppy pads all over her house for the dog to use which makes the house smell. The rest of the family is basically estranged from her because we can't tolerate the smell of her house and the hostility we get from her when we suggest her moving into a smaller more manageable house.
iris lilies
6-6-23, 9:42am
Klunick, i’m so sorry for your situation, and that of your mother and her little dog. I guess if I were in your situation, I would brave the hoarded stinky house to cheerfully take the dog to a groomer and make sure the dog is cared for. To heck with the mom, she can live with her decisions.
Klunick, i’m so sorry for your situation, and that of your mother and her little dog. I guess if I were in your situation, I would brave the hoarded stinky house to cheerfully take the dog to a groomer and make sure the dog is cared for. To heck with the mom, she can live with her decisions.
I would if I lived closer.
iris lilies
6-6-23, 10:52am
I would if I lived closer.
ah. Well, I wish the little doggie well then.
ToomuchStuff
6-7-23, 5:28am
We don't really know why they sold the vehicle. They may have needed money for other house expenses the mom didn't cover, or she could just have been a bad driver, putting them at liability as owners of the car.
I have seen two approaches to this. When things opened back up, a family had a family meal/meeting planned, to convince dad to give up the car keys. Dad showed up and drove into the building, it then became clear to him.
Then we had a couple that the wife never drove, the husband, had no drivers license after being diagnosed with alzheimers, yet the wife and kids let him drive. They had a family dinner and the dad came up and placed an order, payed, and went back to the table. His order came out and they all claimed he hadn't placed an order, or payed (I handled the entire thing). About a month later they realized they had screwed up when their dad put their mom into a nursing home and had no idea where, after she had a stroke.`
Forgot to update this thread.
Senior DID refuse attend granddaughter’s wedding. She was offered rides by many people. Refused all. Granddaughter and multiple other family members were VERY upset. There’s now a break between a number of family members and granny. My church streams services (started during pandemic) so she watches those instead of coming to church. Won’t accept rides to church either. From what I’ve been told, she’s not going to any of her doctor’s appts. She has multiple health conditions, including diabetes, so if she keeps this up, unknown how much longer it’s going to be before she ends up in the hospital.
early morning
7-8-23, 11:43am
Tradd, that sounds like someone who is willing herself to die, frankly. It's possible that in addition to not attending appointments, she's not taking any of her meds - a friend of ours did this. I understand your frustration with her, but it just seems to me that some compassion for this older woman, who is losing control of her life, is warranted. Granted, it's hard to sit by when we "know" what would help, and it sounds like you and her friends/neighbors are willing to help her. Still we can't walk in her shoes - it is not our situation, our medical status, or our past experiences that have led her to this point in her life, but those that are uniquely her own. She still has some agency. Perhaps she's using it in the only way she is able to see.
Tradd, that sounds like someone who is willing herself to die, frankly. It's possible that in addition to not attending appointments, she's not taking any of her meds - a friend of ours did this. I understand your frustration with her, but it just seems to me that some compassion for this older woman, who is losing control of her life, is warranted. Granted, it's hard to sit by when we "know" what would help, and it sounds like you and her friends/neighbors are willing to help her. Still we can't walk in her shoes - it is not our situation, our medical status, or our past experiences that have led her to this point in her life, but those that are uniquely her own. She still has some agency. Perhaps she's using it in the only way she is able to see.
Nicely said, Early.
Tradd, that sounds like someone who is willing herself to die, frankly. It's possible that in addition to not attending appointments, she's not taking any of her meds - a friend of ours did this. I understand your frustration with her, but it just seems to me that some compassion for this older woman, who is losing control of her life, is warranted. Granted, it's hard to sit by when we "know" what would help, and it sounds like you and her friends/neighbors are willing to help her. Still we can't walk in her shoes - it is not our situation, our medical status, or our past experiences that have led her to this point in her life, but those that are uniquely her own. She still has some agency. Perhaps she's using it in the only way she is able to see.
It’s like watching a train wreck. If she wants to do away with herself, I don’t really care. I feel worse for the family. Granny refusing to attend the wedding really wrecked the day for the granddaughter (the bride) and others.
It’s like watching a train wreck. If she wants to do away with herself, I don’t really care. I feel worse for the family. Granny refusing to attend the wedding really wrecked the day for the granddaughter (the bride) and others.
My neighbor/good friend goes through so much angst with a mother like that--narcissistic, it's always about her, very demanding, whines on the phone, but expects everyone to do for her while she does nothing for herself or anyone else. Her granddaughter's baby shower was a couple of weeks ago, and I asked my friend, "did your mother go" and she said no. She lives in the next town. It was no burden to get a ride. She had two children and two grandchildren willing to shuttle. She's in her late 70s, and she's just closing the door on everything. It's very frustrating for my friend, but she has come to realize that she can't do anything for her mother except offer and if her mother refuses, so be it.
early morning
7-10-23, 1:08pm
she has come to realize that she can't do anything for her mother except offer and if her mother refuses, so be it.
The key to overcoming much family angst, IMHO! It is so hard to accept that the only person we can really change is ourselves. We know it, and yet we seem to not believe it...
I'm on a private FB group and one other members has a narcissistic mother. She calls her "momrhoid" because she's a pain in the butt. I've quit begging people. They can either get over it or die mad.
Nicely said, Early.
Tradd, that sounds like someone who is willing herself to die, frankly. It's possible that in addition to not attending appointments, she's not taking any of her meds - a friend of ours did this. I understand your frustration with her, but it just seems to me that some compassion for this older woman, who is losing control of her life, is warranted. Granted, it's hard to sit by when we "know" what would help, and it sounds like you and her friends/neighbors are willing to help her. Still we can't walk in her shoes - it is not our situation, our medical status, or our past experiences that have led her to this point in her life, but those that are uniquely her own. She still has some agency. Perhaps she's using it in the only way she is able to see.
You expressed this beautifully. Some of us will find ourselves in the future losing control of our lives. How do we imagine we will respond? It might be interesting to ask someone who knows us well how they think we will respond.
A close friend stopped taking her meds when it was the last bit of agency she had. No one who knew her well was surprised.
frugal-one
7-15-23, 4:19am
Was inspired by a 90+ woman recently. She is in a mobile home community here in TX. She was telling how she is losing her balance and recently had to give up her car. She stated she recently sold her large mh for a smaller 1br, 1b one she could maintain herself and where she lives she can drive her golf cart to the grocery store. The store has many nicely prepared meals and salads. She has many friends and activities to occupy her time. She is accepting her limitations and adjusting amazingly IMO. She is the definition of aging in place with dignity and self-sufficiency!!
That is such a cool story, frugal, she is my hero! I would love to do the same, in a florida trailer by the ocean.
frugal-one
7-15-23, 12:27pm
That is such a cool story, frugal, she is my hero! I would love to do the same, in a florida trailer by the ocean.
If you want it to happen it will!
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