View Full Version : From The Gates Of Hell Itself?
gimmethesimplelife
7-15-23, 1:33pm
Hey and howdy and greets to one and all from Phoenix, AZ, ground zero in this horrible heatwave.....
Having lived here years and having survived numerous Summers here and without a car (meaning to get around I am very much exposed to the heat) - I must say one thing. This heat wave feels and seems different.
How so? Normally there is a large ridge of high pressure that moves up from Mexico and moves over the Four Corners area. This high pressure coupled with the typical extreme tempearatures of late June and early July are what start the Arizona monsoon. This year, a few attempts by Mother Nature to start the monsoon have been thwarted and I've never seen this happen before. I've seen the monsoon start late but never be actively thwarted by this high pressure ridge.
Along with the above, nights are only "cooling" down to the mid 90's of late and we are about to break a record for how many low temps are 90F or above in a row, in addition to breaking the record this coming Tuesday for the highest number of days in a row with a high temp of 110F or higher - the record stands at the moment at 18 and looks to be significantly broken by several days.
I am doing OK as is SO and my Cousin and my Mother - but what of the many homeless in Phoenix and the many about to be put out on the street due to rental increases in Phoenix.....truly this seems to be both an environmental nightmare and an economic nightmare, too. I'm seeing for the first time really that I may very well be a climate refugee in the future - that there are still people who deny climate change really makes me wish that the US would split and such people would live in the part I don't.
Anyone have any realistic answers to this slow moving train wreck? Rob
I'm seeing for the first time really that I may very well be a climate refugee in the future - that there are still people who deny climate change really makes me wish that the US would split and such people would live in the part I don't.
The whole problem with "the tragedy of the commons" is that even if you move to a Really Nice Brigadoon, where everyone is happy and takes climate change seriously, the people who don't, elsewhere, will continue to overdrive the planet's ecosystems, and there's really no place to hide.
We think often of moving back to Texas but I just hate the endless heat as it sucks the life right out of you. This and last summer have set records. I imagine people will be migrating in the years ahead if this keeps up. I am staying here for now where thus far, I can live without air-conditioning. I don't know if there is an answer when Ma Nature reacts.
flowerseverywhere
7-15-23, 2:29pm
Here in Florida its been very hot, but not to that extent. I don't know how the outdoor workers do it.
I really thought our biggest problem by now would be water. With the increase in water temps here hurricane season could be a rocky ride. In the middle of the state, we see little of the catastrophic flooding, but it can blow and spawn occasional tornadoes. But at least with hurricanes you get days of warning and we would pack up the cats and head north. Not so for those without the means or who need to work through it.
I live around many climate change deniers who insist this is a normal cycle. But again They think the election was stolen, dominion flipped votes in machines that weren't hooked up to the internet (maybe they had to just think about it like Trump and the classified documents) and gay people are pedophiles. So there's that.
We think often of moving back to Texas but I just hate the endless heat as it sucks the life right out of you. This and last summer have set records. I imagine people will be migrating in the years ahead if this keeps up. I am staying here for now where thus far, I can live without air-conditioning. I don't know if there is an answer when Ma Nature reacts.
A friend's offspring lives in Austin, and she talks about moving there. I remind her of the heat, and how poorly their electrical grid is maintained...
The whole problem with "the tragedy of the commons" is that even if you move to a Really Nice Brigadoon, where everyone is happy and takes climate change seriously, the people who don't, elsewhere, will continue to overdrive the planet's ecosystems, and there's really no place to hide.
That's the frustrating part. It's a shame.
What ever weather or climate extremes we have now are going to get worse instead of better. There may be better years or worse years, but I think climate science is predicting more of the same trends. Something to consider as a longer term place to live. I could picture migrations away from places like Phoenix in the next few years. I wonder how hot it could get there before too many years. 120? 125? It may not be possible to get away from climate deniers, but some places will be more habitable than others. At least that's my take.
I’m staying in the Great Lakes region. I love having 4 seasons. And we have fresh water here!
I think people are going to have to move away from the coast, at least in FL. Already many insurers are no longer writing new home owners’ policies. That condo building that collapsed in FL often had water in the parking garage from high waves.
The insurance issues will be a HUGE issue for California and Florida and any other states the companies decide to leave. Unless you pay cash, you will not be able to get a mortgage without some form of qualified insurance. In California, one report said it was a lot about how the state has structured laws regarding insurance.
Florida is also going to be hit by the condo assoc. law change. As I understood it, previously the condos did not have to have proper reserve funds. Now there are changes regarding reserve funds. That increase and insurance (plus the overall increase in labor for everything else) is going to hit the condo market hard.
A friend has a condo vacation home on the edge of a popular tourist area. His insurance options are limited and expensive. He said the day may come when he will just have to go without insurance. Fires are the risk.
Teacher Terry
7-15-23, 11:34pm
I’m staying in the Great Lakes region. I love having 4 seasons. And we have fresh water here!
I think people are going to have to move away from the coast, at least in FL. Already many insurers are no longer writing new home owners’ policies. That condo building that collapsed in FL often had water in the parking garage from high waves.
I spent 34 years of my life a hour from you and I absolutely loved Lake Michigan. However, winter and the summer humidity sucked and I don’t miss that at all. But sadly Chicago has a lower COL than Reno.
I spent 34 years of my life a hour from you and I absolutely loved Lake Michigan. However, winter and the summer humidity sucked and I don’t miss that at all. But sadly Chicago has a lower COL than Reno.
I love winter. Humidity, hell no. But I just power through it. AC at home is kept at 65.
flowerseverywhere
7-16-23, 6:12am
Yes, here in Florida house insurance is a huge problem. We are at low risk ( and carry flood insurance although not required) but our premiums went up several hundred dollars. Many people near the coast self-insure. with the cost of rebuilding it is an astronomical risk to do so.
So far we are staying put. I agree the uncertainty of the Texas power grid is a big concern. Here hurricanes and possibly sink holes. Many streets in Miami have already been raised. In the Keys, many areas routinely have flooded streets. The argument is over which streets to raise but there is no money to do so. Revenue is down at Disney, which equates to way less money coming to the state in taxes And a loss in revenue to surrounding restaurants and hotels. Whether or not it is due to the economy or our governor doing his best to convince people Disney is grooming children who knowss. But I think Florida, Texas and much of the desert southwest and California (water, wildfires and heat) may be in for bad times ahead.
There was a book out a while back about the great lakes and there are laws and treaties protecting the great lakes. They are frequently eyed by far away states as an easy source of water. But huge pipelines would need to be built even if there was any chance to change the existing laws and agreements.
Let us not forget that immigration from our southern neighbors will only increase as the heat intensifies.
iris lilies
7-16-23, 9:09am
Yes, here in Florida house insurance is a huge problem. We are at low risk ( and carry flood insurance although not required) but our premiums went up several hundred dollars. Many people near the coast self-insure. with the cost of rebuilding it is an astronomical risk to do so.
So far we are staying put. I agree the uncertainty of the Texas power grid is a big concern. Here hurricanes and possibly sink holes. Many streets in Miami have already been raised. In the Keys, many areas routinely have flooded streets. The argument is over which streets to raise but there is no money to do so. Revenue is down at Disney, which equates to way less money coming to the state in taxes And a loss in revenue to surrounding restaurants and hotels. Whether or not it is due to the economy or our governor doing his best to convince people Disney is grooming children who knowss. But I think Florida, Texas and much of the desert southwest and California (water, wildfires and heat) may be in for bad times ahead.
There was a book out a while back about the great lakes and there are laws and treaties protecting the great lakes. They are frequently eyed by far away states as an easy source of water. But huge pipelines would need to be built even if there was any chance to change the existing laws and agreements.
Let us not forget that immigration from our southern neighbors will only increase as the heat intensifies.
or maybe, Disney products suck. Disney prices suck. The era of Disney may be over. A Well deserved downfall.
or maybe, Disney products suck. Disney prices suck. The era of Disney may be over. A Well deserved downfall.
If you can find media reports on Disney's woes that don't try to pin the blame on DeSantis it's easy to see that their theme parks are marketed to the wealthy rather than the middle class. Ticket prices have increased over 100% compared to inflation adjusted prices from just 20 years ago making it very difficult for average families to enjoy.
Their media/entertainment divisions aren't doing as well as hoped either. DeSantis hasn't forced them to put out mediocre product that fewer people want to purchase. As an example, I doubt there's much demand for their currently in production live action re-make of Snow White, which might be more realistically titled Snow Mocha And Her Band Of Ambiguous But Diverse Friends Of Varying Heights.
iris lilies
7-16-23, 9:53am
If you can find media reports on Disney's woes that don't try to pin the blame on DeSantis it's easy to see that their theme parks are marketed to the wealthy rather than the middle class. Ticket prices have increased over 100% compared to inflation adjusted prices from just 20 years ago making it very difficult for average families to enjoy.
Their media/entertainment divisions aren't doing as well as hoped either. DeSantis hasn't forced them to put out mediocre product that fewer people want to purchase. As an example, I doubt there's much demand for their currently in production live action re-make of Snow White, which might be more realistically titled Snow Mocha And Her Band Of Ambiguous But Diverse Friends Of Varying Heights.
their immersive hotel that was? Star Trek themed? and super Duper expensive fell flat on its face.
flowerseverywhere
7-16-23, 10:02am
If you can find media reports on Disney's woes that don't try to pin the blame on DeSantis it's easy to see that their theme parks are marketed to the wealthy rather than the middle class. Ticket prices have increased over 100% compared to inflation adjusted prices from just 20 years ago making it very difficult for average families to enjoy.
Their media/entertainment divisions aren't doing as well as hoped either. DeSantis hasn't forced them to put out mediocre product that fewer people want to purchase. As an example, I doubt there's much demand for their currently in production live action re-make of Snow White, which might be more realistically titled Snow Mocha And Her Band Of Ambiguous But Diverse Friends Of Varying Heights.
Well Disney is like many other subjects. If you cannot afford it or don't agree with their philosophy, don't go. If you don't want to see a movie, don't go. If you don't want to pay for Disney merchandise, don't. Simple.
I think in the long run they will come out ahead. They are building new hotel space to time share properties and converting some other onsite properties to their versions of time shares called Disney vacation club. It is a fixed number of year lease. You pay upfront 30,000+ for a certain amount of points (that would get about a week at a less expensive resort off peak) which you can use any week or increment of. Plus yearly maintenance which seems to average $1000 a year per contract. A pretty sweet deal for Disney.
Overseas visitors abound and a lot of people across the pond and beyond have money and are "woke" whatever that really means. They wouldn't build rooms if they didn't think they were going to be filled.
There was a book out a while back about the great lakes and there are laws and treaties protecting the great lakes. They are frequently eyed by far away states as an easy source of water. But huge pipelines would need to be built even if there was any chance to change the existing laws and agreements.
Let us not forget that immigration from our southern neighbors will only increase as the heat intensifies.
The book, "Death and Life of the Great Lakes" by Egan is a very good book about people messing up the lakes and then try to help fix them. I think it won several non-fiction awards not long ago.
I sort of understand how Disney could be on a young person's bucket list. When I finally go and meet St. Peter at the pearly gates, if I don't pass muster for admission I picture being sent to a crowded Disney place hotter than climate change where they play an endless loop of, it's a small, small, world.
flowerseverywhere
7-16-23, 11:21am
or maybe, Disney products suck. Disney prices suck. The era of Disney may be over. A Well deserved downfall.
We are annual pass holders. One of the really hot days recently mY nephews and their families were there. We went down to see them. The lines to get food were long. Rides had 30 minute to two hour waits unless you paid more for your tickets. We took them to lunch at their resort and lucky they had made reservations as the standby line was very long.
But some people have lots and lots of money and did great during the covid shutdown. Commuting costs, childcare costs, house cleaner costs, in home meals saved high earners tons of money. Plus refinancing close to 2% helped lots of people already in homes. The vanishing middle class is smaller now
sweetana3
7-16-23, 11:27am
I stopped liking Disney when I was young and saw Bambi. As an adult, I realized how often parental relationships were negatively portrayed and how emotions are treated. Not for me. I did go to Disney World while in Florida but it was to over the top and commercialized for me.
I’m staying in the Great Lakes region. I love having 4 seasons. And we have fresh water here!
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I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else. Like the climate, like the people, like the food. There seems to be a lot less status anxiety here than anywhere else in the country.
Having worked within the Great Lakes Compact for a local government that straddles the GL/Mississippi watersheds, I can attest that there is very little support for exporting water to less favored regions.
frugal-one
7-16-23, 12:31pm
Harsh, severe winters in WI was the deal breaker for me. Tree color in autumn is pretty but the continuous cleaning of gutters and lawn removal of leaves was too much. The dreary April showers and cold of spring deterred the season for me. I lived in WI all my life and was never warm in winter. The tongue-in-cheek saying is that WI has six months of winter. Sadly that is close to the truth! Not true about anxiety ldahl. With people like traitor Ron Johnson and Robin Vos there was a feeling of political armageddon! The cons outweigh the pros IMO. Guess every place has negatives. A person has to choose which most they are willing to deal with.
With people like traitor Ron Johnson and Robin Vos there was a feeling of political armageddon! The cons outweigh the pros IMO. Guess every place has negatives. A person has to choose which most they are willing to deal with.
So you find Texas to be much more politically appealing?
catherine
7-16-23, 12:46pm
The book, "Death and Life of the Great Lakes" by Egan is a very good book about people messing up the lakes and then try to help fix them. I think it won several non-fiction awards not long ago.
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Sounds like a good book. I'll take a look and see if I can get it. If people tried to export water from the North to the South, I'd be really upset unless strict conservation efforts were enforced first and it were truly a last resort effort. There is no way I would want to enable people in FL or AZ or CA to water their lawns 12 months a year with lake water from my parts.
ApatheticNoMore
7-16-23, 1:56pm
The water is mostly not going to lawns, it's going to agriculture. Lawns might be mostly bad for other reasons, like all the gas powered maintenance they take etc..
I think AZ can hold out awhile, though maybe not forever, as it's a dry heat. Humid heat is the stuff that is the most dangerous and that's other places more than AZ I think.
As for Disney, as a kid I was forbidden to go to Disneyland for political reasons (they were anti-labor for one thing), I managed to go a couple times with school or girl scouts anyway even if my folks wouldn't take me. I was allowed to watch cartoons sometimes though. As an adult well I really don't consume mass entertainment products. I support the writers/actors strike, but I don't even consume the product really.
Cities in dry places are starting to give rebates or incentives to get rid of lawns. What concerns me is the proliferation of all rock yards. That just makes it even hotter. Our utility dept had a program for free prairie grass seed so we just reduced the lawn by a third, dug up the Kentucky bluegrass and seeded with Blue Grama. It will not please the neighbors but oh well...
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Hot here in Texas [hot is normal for Texas' summer.]
But the temperature here in Dallas has not been close to the all time high temperature of 113 actual degees in 1980. Texans lived through that and they will live through this. Today we received a nice rain which lowered the temperature to the mid-70s. But tomorrow it will be in the low 100s again.
ApatheticNoMore
7-16-23, 2:31pm
Cities in dry places are starting to give rebates or incentives to get rid of lawns. What concerns me is the proliferation of all rock yards. That just makes it even hotter.
oh yes that's a pet peeve of mine, it's awful, occasionally done well with river rock and a few native plants. But mostly the rock stuff is awful. I hate it.
I plant plants that don't need a lot of water outside in the small plot outside my apartment. Since noone but me actually waters the area, they better be low water, as I'm lazy. It's a mini-hobby that takes almost no time and small amounts of money. There is also a small lawn in this building that's not right near me. Families with young kids seem to like that feature though.
The water is mostly not going to lawns, it's going to agriculture. Lawns might be mostly bad for other reasons, like all the gas powered maintenance they take etc..
Yes, that's true. But along the same vein, there can also be efforts to lessen the impact of the water required for agriculture before building pipelines so we can waste the water shipped from afar. Project Drawdown has several solutions for that: more efficient irrigation, plant-rich diets, reduced food waste, sustainable intensification for smallholders, conservation agriculture, and regenerative annual cropping. https://drawdown.org/solutions/table-of-solutions. Let's try that before we start thinking about importing water. Obviously, these solutions are meant for agricultural products anywhere, not just warmer climates.
ApatheticNoMore
7-16-23, 3:02pm
Yes, that's true. But along the same vein, there can also be efforts to lessen the impact of the water required for agriculture before building pipelines so we can waste the water shipped from afar. Project Drawdown has several solutions for that: more efficient irrigation, plant-rich diets, reduced food waste, sustainable intensification for smallholders, conservation agriculture, and regenerative annual cropping. https://drawdown.org/solutions/table-of-solutions. Let's try that before we start thinking about importing water. Obviously, these solutions are meant for agricultural products anywhere, not just warmer climates.
I think Israel does a lot of the things with irrigation that CA should be doing (reducing evaporation etc.). The state of CA could probably implement some of those things. If the goal is relocating all farming to other states, well I don't see how that happens without a plan as that's a massive undertaking and I don't think anyone in government is even interested in it. But maybe a few of the most water wasting crops could move and be grown elsewhere. We could also import all produce form other countries but I don't think that's a great plan either.
I never went to Disney as a kid. Wasn’t in the family budget. I don’t feel like I missed anything. Not anything that interests me.
Back to the Great Lakes region/Midwest: I’ve read a number of places that we have fewer natural disasters here and will likely see an uptick in population. Winters here are less harsh than they used to be, at least in the Chicago area.
I never went to Disney as a kid. Wasn’t in the family budget. I don’t feel like I missed anything.
I've been to Disney World once, with marching band in college (we marched in the daily parade and then got to stay the rest of the day for free) and Disneyland once as an adult maybe 15 years ago. I'm here to tell you you didn't miss anything.
Disney World is incredibly expensive--most of the time. We took our kids there once--during the recession in the 90s--no one was traveling. There were no lines. Plus, my DH, ever the negotiator, double-teamed with his mother to argue for the best rates and the managers didn't have a chance against the two of them--we wound up in a beautiful two-story townhouse on one of the Disney lakes for about $100/night.
frugal-one
7-16-23, 3:49pm
So you find Texas to be much more politically appealing?
I didn’t say that. I chose the BEST of 2 options IMO. I believe republicans in both states are repulsive. Johnson should be hung as a traitor IMO. Other variables as mentioned above had a say in our move.
Barbara Kingsolver saw this coming and moved from Arizona to Appalachia over climate change issues.
Wash Post had an article this am about foreign-owned alfalfa crops in Arizona and their pending land leases. It is startling to see emerald green crops next to the desert brown.
Harsh, severe winters in WI was the deal breaker for me. Tree color in autumn is pretty but the continuous cleaning of gutters and lawn removal of leaves was too much. The dreary April showers and cold of spring deterred the season for me. I lived in WI all my life and was never warm in winter. The tongue-in-cheek saying is that WI has six months of winter. Sadly that is close to the truth! Not true about anxiety ldahl. With people like traitor Ron Johnson and Robin Vos there was a feeling of political armageddon! The cons outweigh the pros IMO. Guess every place has negatives. A person has to choose which most they are willing to deal with.
What can I say, I like my weather with a little bite to it. But you’re right this is no place for hothouse flowers.
In my daily life, I run into very few people writhing in indignation that we chose Ron Johnson over Mandela Barnes. Maybe in Madison.
Teacher Terry
7-17-23, 11:48am
I like cold better than heat so would choose Wisconsin over Texas. I lived in Texas and hated it between the heat, humidity and all the bugs. I don’t miss the bugs in Wisconsin either. My sister is in Chicago and says that the winters have gotten milder. I have been to both the California and Florida Disney parks and it was one of those experiences that was fun once and I was an adult both times.
iris lilies
7-17-23, 12:17pm
What can I say, I like my weather with a little bite to it. But you’re right this is no place for hothouse flowers.
In my daily life, I run into very few people writhing in indignation that we chose Ron Johnson over Mandela Barnes. Maybe in Madison.
I went to Madison for the first time last year to judge an Iris show. What a strange town geographically. My GPS took me down a winding road into the heart of downtown, and then it just stopped. I assume it was very confused and didn’t know what to do next.
I’m not sure I encountered one straight street in that town. Maybe that has to do with feeding the craziness.
I went to Madison for the first time last year to judge an Iris show. What a strange town geographically. My GPS took me down a winding road into the heart of downtown, and then it just stopped. I assume it was very confused and didn’t know what to do next.
I’m not sure I encountered one straight street in that town. Maybe that has to do with feeding the craziness.
I love Madison. I’m up there often due to diving with WI buddies, who are all based in the area. I’m sure Madison being built on an isthmus between Lakes Mendota and Monona has something to do with the streets b
iris lilies
7-17-23, 3:42pm
I love Madison. I’m up there often due to diving with WI buddies, who are all based in the area. I’m sure Madison being built on an isthmus between Lakes Mendota and Monona has something to do with the streets b
I actually thought I would like it much better than I did.
frugal-one
7-17-23, 7:17pm
What can I say, I like my weather with a little bite to it. But you’re right this is no place for hothouse flowers.
In my daily life, I run into very few people writhing in indignation that we chose Ron Johnson over Mandela Barnes. Maybe in Madison.
You must lead a sheltered life! I know many who are/were appalled by the traitor!
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You must lead a sheltered life! I know many who are/were appalled by the traitor!
That reminds me of being on a train from London to Bath back in the first year of GWB's time in office. Another American on the train was vehemently assuring all the other passengers that she wasn't one of those ugly Americans everyone hears about because she didn't even know anyone who voted for Bush. You can't get much more worldly than that.
Teacher Terry
7-17-23, 11:55pm
Madison is a nice town. The prettiest part of Wisconsin is from the Dells all the way up to the border. All the forests, trees, rivers, lakes and where the glaciers cut through contribute to it being beautiful. I don’t like to live in rural areas but I sure liked visiting in the summer. Winter is really rough up there.
flowerseverywhere
7-18-23, 5:55am
Phoenix is set to break records of number of days 110+ degrees. I can't imagine the outdoor workers. I hope the power grid stays up.
frugal-one
7-18-23, 7:20am
That reminds me of being on a train from London to Bath back in the first year of GWB's time in office. Another American on the train was vehemently assuring all the other passengers that she wasn't one of those ugly Americans everyone hears about because she didn't even know anyone who voted for Bush. You can't get much more worldly than that.
Yep… not even knowing shows a sheltered existence no matter how far you travel from home.
frugal-one
7-18-23, 7:22am
Madison is a nice town. The prettiest part of Wisconsin is from the Dells all the way up to the border. All the forests, trees, rivers, lakes and where the glaciers cut through contribute to it being beautiful. I don’t like to live in rural areas but I sure liked visiting in the summer. Winter is really rough up there.
There are many more pretty spots… even in winter. But as DH says, “pretty only goes so far”.
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You must lead a sheltered life! I know many who are/were appalled by the traitor!
I like to think so. The politically obsessed are few and far between.
Madison is a nice town. The prettiest part of Wisconsin is from the Dells all the way up to the border. All the forests, trees, rivers, lakes and where the glaciers cut through contribute to it being beautiful. I don’t like to live in rural areas but I sure liked visiting in the summer. Winter is really rough up there.
I lived in Baraboo for a couple of years, and it really is very nice, especially in the off season. The Dells have changed a lot since I was a kid. All the giant water park complexes give it a sort of Vegas look. Fifty years ago it was dusty go cart tracks and those giant slides you went down sitting on a burlap bag. The Ducks are still there, though.
I’ve dived several times at Devils Lake State Park near Baraboo.
I’ve dived several times at Devils Lake State Park near Baraboo.
Some people used to claim that the ruins of a lost civilization could be found submerged in the lake.
Teacher Terry
7-18-23, 12:53pm
There are many more pretty spots… even in winter. But as DH says, “pretty only goes so far”.
I meant if you draw a line across the state even with the Dells everything in the top part is beautiful. The farther north the prettier it is. However, I spent 2 winters in graduate school in Menominee and the cold was awful as was all the snow. Kenosha was warm and balmy compared to that weather. I don’t like small towns and I definitely am a sissy now when my winter coat is usually a sweater.
frugal-one
7-18-23, 2:04pm
I like to think so. The politically obsessed are few and far between.
Ha! Those who favor Ron Johnson have to be politically obsessed to allow such behavior.
frugal-one
7-18-23, 2:07pm
I meant if you draw a line across the state even with the Dells everything in the top part is beautiful. The farther north the prettier it is. However, I spent 2 winters in graduate school in Menominee and the cold was awful as was all the snow. Kenosha was warm and balmy compared to that weather. I don’t like small towns and I definitely am a sissy now when my winter coat is usually a sweater.
I don’t agree. I travelled all over the state for work and have hiked all over. There are pretty places everywhere. The beauty of the state is undeniable.
I don’t agree. I travelled all over the state for work and have hiked all over. There are pretty places everywhere. The beauty of the state is undeniable.
There are some very nice spots south of the Dells. I like Mineral Point and the Prairie
Du Chien area. Lake Geneva is beautiful despite being a sort of Illinois Riviera. But you need to be careful that Ron Johnson doesn’t leap out of the bushes and make you pay your student loans.
Teacher Terry
7-22-23, 10:59am
Lake Geneva is beautiful. I always go there when I go home. The entire state is pretty but for me the northern part is especially so. I spent 32 years in Kenosha. However, I don’t like to live in rural areas because of the lack of things to do and the weather is brutal up north in the winter.
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