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Hi, not sure any of you can help with this, but I am confused because my mom's death certificate says cause of death has not been determined, and it is pending investigation, and it is a medical examiner case. When I saw this I was upset and called medical examiner's office and they said it was standard when someone in a nursing home fall and broke a bone, which is what happened to her, but when I called today to see if they were any further, I was told that they were waiting for the toxicology reports.
Any ideas of why they are doing this? She died in a long term nursing care facilty, after being sent home from hospital first to memory care and then to long term nursing care over period of four days. I still don't understand why they did not keep her in the hospital.
happystuff
7-27-23, 5:39pm
It might be location-dependent, but I know certain deaths in my area require an autopsy depending on the various circumstances.
To make sure it was not a "mercy killing" by the staff.
To make sure it was not a "mercy killing" by the staff.
God, is that what you thought of? I thought of that, but my brothers think I'm crazy to think that's why.
To make sure it was not a "mercy killing" by the staff.
That seems like as good of a guess as any. If she wasn’t under hospice care it would have potentially been unethical to provide her with meds like morphine, which would show up in the toxicology report.
I've been to a lot of death scenes. Our local ME/Coroner has us treat every death as if it might have been a crime, until some sort of investigation is completed and the appropriate paperwork signed off on. Sometimes this takes very little time, sometimes it is "complicated".
Thank you. She was being given morphine and had been accepted into hospice the day prior and according to my brother, who was her guardian, hospice sent over the morphine.
Teacher Terry
7-28-23, 12:53am
Here they won’t do an autopsy even if the family wants one if the person has seen a doctor in the past 10 days. My mil was in a rehab facility getting PT for 2 weeks at 67 after a hospitalization and was expected to go home. She was just weak. Within a week she was dead.
I was told first by the ME's office that it was a "paper case" where examiner had to examine her medical records because of the broken bone. Then I was told yesterday that they were waiting for toxicology report. There was no autopsy. But they must have taken fluids from her body. She was cremated within a week of her death.
iris lilies
7-28-23, 10:08am
I’m sorry you have this additional worry.
It sounds like this examination of her death is entirely routine.
I suspect it's a case of CYA. Each party wanting to make sure of any possible culpability such as overmedication, accidental or incompetence.
I'm really sorry you're having to go through this.
Thank you, it is unsettling and upsetting
Plan to check in again with ME office later this week. It should not be taking this long.
I checked and found out that 13,000-15000 people die each year in this state. Of that number, 3000 cases are referred to the ME office, and of that number, 1300 are actually investigated.
iris lilies
9-3-23, 3:36pm
Scanning comments about autopsy and toxicology reports on Reddit, posters there show a wait of 6 months not unusual.
I could quiz my Sister in law who worked for a Medical .examiner’s office, but I don’t see how she could provide specific knowledge of what takes place in your state.
But if you want me to send her a few facts about your mother’s death to elicit conjecture from my SIL, let me know the facts to send on.
is this lack of final determination of death impeding the closing of your mothers estate?
It might, I don't know yet. We are nowhere near closing as need to publish creditor notification and wait months for that. I will pm you the details and yes, maybe she can conjecture, that would be awesome, thank you
iris lilies
9-3-23, 6:59pm
It might, I don't know yet. We are nowhere near closing as need to publish creditor notification and wait months for that. I will pm you the details and yes, maybe she can conjecture, that would be awesome, thank you
I forwarded your message to my SIL. We shall see if she has anything to say that relieves your mind.let us hope so.
I forwarded your message to my SIL. We shall see if she has anything to say that relieves your mind.let us hope so.
Thank you.
I called last week and the ME office said it should be "done this week." This is what they say everytime I call. Not sure what I should do, what is the hold up.
iris lilies
10-12-23, 11:57am
I was wondering how this was coming along. Too bad to see it’s not coming along.
I did succeed in getting copies of the medical claims at least, and have filed a request for her medical records.
iris lilies
10-12-23, 4:01pm
I did succeed in getting copies of the medical claims at least, and have filed a request for her medical records.
I assume you got my PM, but here’s what my sister-in-law who has worked in a medical examiners office for decades, said:
She had these general things to say:
* her medical examiners office would’ve done a examination of this case too because the broken bone could’ve caused stress and heart attack or stroke. If so, it still would’ve been ruled an accidental death which automatically means an investigation
* they could also be checking to see if hospice gave her too much medication.
Probably these are things you already thought about, but this is what my sister-in-law had to say. Good luck with all this.
Thanks, I did not receive pm so appreciate this info very much. I did consider second and will consider the second. Thank you!
The ME report just came in. They ruled it accidental death, "due to blunt force injury." They gave the history with the fall being what caused it, breaks to both her humerus and radius. Nothing in there about the stroke that she so obviously had. Nothing in there about toxicology.
So no answers, not really. Just a CYA all around.
iris lilies
10-19-23, 11:43am
The ME report just came in. They ruled it accidental death, "due to blunt force injury." They gave the history with the fall being what caused it, breaks to both her humerus and radius. Nothing in there about the stroke that she so obviously had. Nothing in there about toxicology.
So no answers, not really. Just a CYA all around.
i’m glad this piece is close even if it doesn’t represent complete closure for you. But death in the elderly is complicated anyway with several systems going out at once, they are so fragile. I’m just glad your mother is at peace.
Thank you, I have a call in to ask why the stroke was not documented, and once they call back, I guess I can ask my questions and then leave it alone. Like you say, it was complicated and multi-system.
I am glad she is at peace, too, and headed down to her favorite place in the world, where she can be laid to rest in consecrated ground.
I have now spoken with the ME and actually feel much better. She told me toxicology samples were never taken, that I was misinformed by the office earlier, and they were not waiting on toxicology. The wait was solely due to the backlog of records in the ME office, the backlog of complicated cases. She said the medication was correct and Mom was not overdosed. (This was a tremendous relief.) She said the death was accidental and caused by the fall with the broken bones, the body's reaction to it. She said there was no record of a stroke, and suggested Mother may not have let them image her to check. I think it is also a possibility that the stroke occurred on the day I saw her, and was a new event, but they had already sent her home to die. Unfortunately. But she also said some of the agitation I witnessed may have been to do with decreasing levels of oxygen in her brain, and that would make sense. Anyway, I can come to terms with this, and while I think things should have been done very differently, the worst thing I had imagined, the intentional overdose, was never even on their radar. Which makes me feel much, much better. She had the sense from the medical records that it was her time, and this event just sped up the death, which was coming for reasons of it being her time and her body failing.
Glad you got answers! Hugs.
happystuff
10-20-23, 10:21am
So glad you finally got some answers, Tybee.
What a long, sad, difficult period in your life. Wishing you peace.
Thank you, Yppej, it is a relief and yes, it is bringing me peace to have some answers.
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