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My mom's money is currently with a trust company that my brother selected. They have been okay--excellent at some things, like taxes, getting money transferred over to them, paying her bills, keeping on top of things--but I was not super impressed with their investment advice, and my brothers are going to keep their money there when we transfer it to the heirs. I could keep it there, but it costs 1% annually, I feel like I am not on the same page investment-wise, and I want separation between my brothers and me. I do really like the head guy that we deal with, but he is older than I am, so who knows how much longer he will be working. I just don't want us to be lumped together as a "family" for various reasons, and would prefer my money be elsewhere. But I like the guy, and it makes things very simple, and he could open an account for me and it would be painless.
What would you do?
Without knowing more about things, I'd transfer the investments to something like Fidelity or Vanguard and invest in a simple indexed total stock fund and an indexed bond fund with low management fees. One percent could be worth it to have someone else manage things, depending on how comfortable you are with them, how you feel about managing things on your own, and how complicated things are?
Without knowing more about things, I'd transfer the investments to something like Fidelity or Vanguard and invest in a simple indexed total stock fund and an indexed bond fund with low management fees. One percent could be worth it to have someone else manage things, depending on how comfortable you are with them, how you feel about managing things on your own, and how complicated things are?
That's exactly what I thought, too, and have been managing my own money since the dot.com bust, so I'm probably more comfortable with that than handing it over to someone else.
Teacher Terry
7-31-23, 10:31am
I would do what Roger advises.
iris lilies
7-31-23, 11:11am
Transfer the money because you are on top of your own investments. The guy at the investment house will still reap a benefit from doing a good job with your mom’s assets because your brothers are keeping their share with him. 1% seems to be the standard fee for managing a few million or less. One of my friends has an amazing amount of family money and they charge her half of a percent.
iris lilies
7-31-23, 11:21am
On the topic of transfer of parental assets: I was thinking about it just this week how clever the Edward Jones strategy is to have small brokerage offices on Main Street USA. My mom in her small Iowa town had her money with them and when it came time to transfer to me, The Edward Jones office up the street from my house took care of it. That’s the only reason why we have a Edward Jones account. And then, when DH’s father died it was handy to transfer his father’s Edward Jones money into our Edward Jones account.
I believe Edward Jones limits the amount of assets one office can control. In DH’s very small home town there are two Edward Jones offices on Main Street. It is a farm rich community with the richest farmland in the world so there’s money there.
Our household has several brokerage accounts: Wells Fargo, Edward Jones, and Vanguard. The Wells Fargo account exists because many years ago the young investment guy actively went after our account. It had formally been held at the investment arm of our bank where he then worked, but the subsequent investment officer was rather lackluster in keeping our business and later there was some sort of screwup at that bank with the investment and DH figured it out, and that annoyed me so we got out.
flowerseverywhere
7-31-23, 6:18pm
Be careful no matter what you do. when FIL died the Edward Jones guy was going to charge MIL a 7% commision to transfer the money to her. Luckily she asked my BIL (who did taxes on the side) to check the papers that were coming in. Naturally he went through the roof. She had so little to live on the rest of her life it was horrible he tried to do that. This guy maybe was 1 in 1,000 but beware.
By the way I would trust Fidelity and Vanguard to have a variety of low fee long term funds with little churning. You can choose one that is 60 bond/40 stock or whatever you are comfortable with.
iris lilies
7-31-23, 6:32pm
Be careful no matter what you do. when FIL died the Edward Jones guy was going to charge MIL a 7% commision to transfer the money to her. Luckily she asked my BIL (who did taxes on the side) to check the papers that were coming in. Naturally he went through the roof. She had so little to live on the rest of her life it was horrible he tried to do that. This guy maybe was 1 in 1,000 but beware.
By the way I would trust Fidelity and Vanguard to have a variety of low fee long term funds with little churning. You can choose one that is 60 bond/40 stock or whatever you are comfortable with.
I doubt there was a transfer fee (don’t really know) for us to transfer funds from one Ed Jones office to another, but when I transferred a long held dodgy investment to Vanguard, yeah, big charge. Ugh. I say “dodgy”because I bought it in my 20’s and that was before I knew much about index funds at the discount brokerage houses.
I also agree with rogar. If you have an existing investment account elsewhere like E*Trade, vanguard, etc I would just transfer the assets there. That 1% annual fee will definitely eat up a lot of income. I say this assuming that the trust will be liquidated and distributed in a relatively short timeframe post-death.
However, as the future trustee of my best friend’s estate I can understand the desire of the trustee to have all the beneficiaries open an account where the assets are currently held. I will be doing the same thing (my friend’s assets are all in a vanguard account) because it will make my job as trustee much easier. But if the beneficiaries want to then immediately roll stuff out of vanguard and go somewhere else I don’t care. Once they possess the assets it isn’t my issue one way or the other.
Be careful no matter what you do. when FIL died the Edward Jones guy was going to charge MIL a 7% commision to transfer the money to her. Luckily she asked my BIL (who did taxes on the side) to check the papers that were coming in. Naturally he went through the roof. She had so little to live on the rest of her life it was horrible he tried to do that. This guy maybe was 1 in 1,000 but beware.
By the way I would trust Fidelity and Vanguard to have a variety of low fee long term funds with little churning. You can choose one that is 60 bond/40 stock or whatever you are comfortable with.
Thank you, I forgot about transfer fees. I will look out, for sure.
On the topic of transfer of parental assets: I was thinking about it just this week how clever the Edward Jones strategy is to have small brokerage offices on Main Street USA. My mom in her small Iowa town had her money with them and when it came time to transfer to me, The Edward Jones office up the street from my house took care of it. That’s the only reason why we have a Edward Jones account. And then, when DH’s father died it was handy to transfer his father’s Edward Jones money into our Edward Jones account.
I believe Edward Jones limits the amount of assets one office can control. In DH’s very small home town there are two Edward Jones offices on Main Street. It is a farm rich community with the richest farmland in the world so there’s money there.
Our household has several brokerage accounts: Wells Fargo, Edward Jones, and Vanguard. The Wells Fargo account exists because many years ago the young investment guy actively went after our account. It had formally been held at the investment arm of our bank where he then worked, but the subsequent investment officer was rather lackluster in keeping our business and later there was some sort of screwup at that bank with the investment and DH figured it out, and that annoyed me so we got out.
You see them everywhere, those Edward Jones places. An old neighbor of our set up shop with them and it probably worked out really well for him.
I also agree with rogar. If you have an existing investment account elsewhere like E*Trade, vanguard, etc I would just transfer the assets there. That 1% annual fee will definitely eat up a lot of income. I say this assuming that the trust will be liquidated and distributed in a relatively short timeframe post-death.
However, as the future trustee of my best friend’s estate I can understand the desire of the trustee to have all the beneficiaries open an account where the assets are currently held. I will be doing the same thing (my friend’s assets are all in a vanguard account) because it will make my job as trustee much easier. But if the beneficiaries want to then immediately roll stuff out of vanguard and go somewhere else I don’t care. Once they possess the assets it isn’t my issue one way or the other.
That makes total sense. He already liquidated everything and went to cash, so that part has been done. I am also one of two executors, so I appreciate your perspective an an executor.
I doubt there was a transfer fee (don’t really know) for us to transfer funds from one Ed Jones office to another, but when I transferred a long held dodgy investment to Vanguard, yeah, big charge. Ugh. I say “dodgy”because I bought it in my 20’s and that was before I knew much about index funds at the discount brokerage houses.
IL, when your husband got his inheritance, was the land part separate from the investments/cash/cd's etc part? How long did it take that estate to settle?
iris lilies
8-1-23, 11:50am
IL, when your husband got his inheritance, was the land part separate from the investments/cash/cd's etc part? How long did it take that estate to settle?
Oy. Let’s see, my father in law died December 2018. The estate was finally settled late 2022 but you know we had Covid in there, and then there two court actions where one sibling was suing for things she thought she deserved.
But the cash, and there was a significant amount, was distributed within 3-4 months of his death. A healthy batch of cash was kept back in the estate to pay for everything that needed to be paid for until the esstate was closed. Then at the end we got another cash infusion.
It was the land dispute that took forever to solve. I think we had to open an account at the Edward Jones in the tiny town in order to take possession of… something. And my father-in-law had something going on at the OTHER Edward Jones office in town, so I always entertained myself with the idea of an Ed Jones guy walking up the street and delivering a document to an Ed Jones guy a block away. Of course that’s silly because it’s all done digitally.
How is your execututor role structured? We have structured our Trust so that executors, and there are two of them, may act independently. In other words, one of them can decide to sell our house for one dollar and voila, it’s sold for one dollar, the other one has no say.
But the cash, and there was a significant amount, was distributed within 3-4 months of his death. A healthy batch of cash was kept back in the estate to pay for everything that needed to be paid for until the esstate was closed. Then at the end we got another cash infusion.
. . . .
How is your execututor role structured? We have structured our Trust so that executors, and there are two of them, may act independently. In other words, one of them can decide to sell our house for one dollar and voila, it’s sold for one dollar, the other one has no say.
I am not sure but think we must both sign everything. We do not yet have our letters testamentary, waiting on the court to approve our application.
What you describe with the cash is what the trust guy is proposing, so I feel I have to come to a decision soon so that when we get the appointment, he wants to do what you guys did, and distribute some early, keeping back some to pay bills, and then distribute the last, small leftovers.
Jus to clarify - the fiduciary for a trust is called a trustee. The fiduciary for an estate with a will is called an executor; without a will, the fiduciary is an administrator.
Jus to clarify - the fiduciary for a trust is called a trustee. The fiduciary for an estate with a will is called an executor; without a will, the fiduciary is an administrator.
And to complicate things further, in our state, an executor is called a personal representative.
And to complicate things further, in our state, an executor is called a personal representative. Yes! Ha. I think that's the trend.
I actually remember when, if the personal was a woman, she was called Executrix or Administratrix.
Well, I got letters of appointment yesterday, so here we go, I guess!
Well, I got letters of appointment yesterday, so here we go, I guess!
Nice!
Nice!
Maybe? I am already tense because I found it out on my own, no one told me--so don't know if they already know or not, which would be very typical of my sibling.
iris lilies
8-10-23, 4:35pm
Maybe? I am already tense because I found it out on my own, no one told me--so don't know if they already know or not, which would be very typical of my sibling.
Can you act independently or must you act in tandem and do you need his signature on everything?
IL, I just don't know. I notified all of them, including the lawyer, and she just wrote back and she did not know until I told her that we were appointed yesterday.
But I actually think we need both to pay bills.
iris lilies
8-10-23, 11:38pm
Out of curiosity, who appoints you? Is there a trust involved here?
Given everything you said about how you get along with your siblings I can’t see that this will bring you anything but grief. I hope you get through it quickly. I hope your co- executor is willing to push to get it all done as well. is there any real estate at all that must be dispensed with?
Brother is co-executor. He is the trustee of the trust for her commercial real estate, which is not subject to probate. I have been told I have no authority over the trust as it does not go through probate. Court appoints executors.
iris lilies
8-11-23, 7:54am
Brother is co-executor. He is the trustee of the trust for her commercial real estate, which is not subject to probate. I have been told I have no authority over the trust as it does not go through probate. Court appoints executors.
That is interesting.
What, then, are the assests you are in charge of?
With us, our trust covers 98% of our assets which are in financial instruments and real estate. Our will covers the rest, things like furniture, pets, tools, etc.
Everything was liquidated to cash.
iris lilies
8-11-23, 9:19am
Everything was liquidated to cash.
Then that seems easy! Your part anyway.
what do you think happened to the commercial real estate?
I know what happened to it, it's sitting there in the trust under his control.
iris lilies
8-11-23, 10:46am
I know what happened to it, it's sitting there in the trust under his control.
I meant to say, what do you think will happen to it? Do you have ownership in trust assets?
I am a beneficiary, along with two others. They will try to sell it.
iris lilies
8-12-23, 2:16pm
I am a beneficiary, along with two others. They will try to sell it.
That sounds good, assuming there’s a market for it. Commercial real estate is in the toilet, but since real estate markets are all local, I have no knowledge about your mom‘s assets. I hope the real estate sells quickly and the money is dispersed so you can close out this aspect of your life.
Honestly, this all seems pretty easy to me based on what you said. Do you anticipate many decisions you have to make jointly with a sibling?
Am already being asked to make them-- and I am saying lets do whatever the lawyer says.
Selling is complicated--it is co-owned with a distant family member.
iris lilies
8-12-23, 2:37pm
Am already being asked to make them-- and I am saying, no, slow down, the lawyer wants to do it by the book, and so do I.
Selling is complicated--it is co-owned with a distant family member.
oooooooo noooooo. Co ownership. Ugh. Your answer about following attorney’s directive is the way to go.
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