San Francisco.....

[gimmethesimplelife]

Take this with a grain of salt. I may be the only gay man in North America who does not care for San Francisco. I have spent two weeks there in 1996 after I sold my house in Portland and before I moved back to Arizona. So I remember what it once was like as a tourist, though I stayed in hostels to keep costs down.

I remember a city full of hustle and bustle with well dressed office workers all over the place and busy stores and restaurants and hotels.

Moving forward 27 years - SO has as close friend that left SF recently and is so grateful to be gone. SO LOVES SF. He's even said my only red flag is that I don't like SF.

Until his friend directed him to a series of recent YouTube videos showing an entirely different SF. Both Embarcadero AND Market Street have hardly any traffic, or open stores or restaurants or hotels. Hardly any middle class office workers - and what folks are lurking about - most of them - scream bad news.

It's completely unlike what I remember. I know there is a frequent poster here that lives in the Bay Area - I'm hoping they chime in and give us an idea of the extent of this change. Rob

[iris lilies]

The architecture and the natural scenery of SF is wonderful. That won’t change for a long long time until the human parade of destruction finally does it in.

I would be so happy if the governing bodies could turn that decline around because SF is a wonderful world class city, or was anyway.

I wonder how Chinatown is fairing these days? Those in charge kept that place spic and span and law abiding. But now the tide of filth and mess might be too much for them.

[gimmethesimplelife]

The architecture and the natural scenery of SF is wonderful. That won’t change for a long long time until the human parade of destruction finally does it in.

I would be so happy if the governing bodies could turn that decline around because SF is a wonderful world class city, or was anyway.

I wonder how Chinatown is faring these days? Those in charge kept that place speak span and law, abiding, the tide of filth and mess might be too much for them.I take it then this is not some dark Internet secret - that what I have posted about SF is common knowledge, at least to those with some interest in the issue? Rob

[iris lilies]

I take it then this is not some dark Internet secret - that what I have posted about SF is common knowledge, at least to those with some interest in the issue? Rob
Sure, we’v talked about the downfall of San Francisco here on this forum.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Sure, we’v talked about the downfall of San Francisco here on this forum.Once again I'm late to the party.....I did not know this has already been discussed. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I am unable to sleep tonight. There's been drama with one of SO's relatives in Nogales, MX. SO is there and I respect him so much for dropping everything for family even if he loses his job for taking off so soon after being hired - not to brag but my income is sufficient for us.both. Anyway my exhausted mind is wandering.

My.point in this post is that I have done some research online this early AM and found out that it's not just SF and Portland facing these issues - apparently Seattle is and so is my favorite US city (Austin). Along with Minneapolis.

This may shock some of.you and I'm NOT becoming a Republican to be clear. That said - these cities I've mentioned are all very liberal. I'm wondering - would an injection of Conservatism - an injection, not a deluge - help at this point? I've kept in touch with a couple of people from my Portland days and what I'm hearing sounds very third worldish - and without family values, colorful marketplaces, and a slower pace of life. It does seem that current liberal policies are failing the above cities. I will say that over the years Phoenix has become more liberal - but not to.the point of the above cities. Maybe because here there is more balance between liberal and conservative? I find the swift decline of these cities very upsetting.

Came back to add SO just called. His uncle is in.the IMSS Hospital in Nogales (Mexican socialized medicine) and he's expected to.pull through. I find myself thinking that situations like this on.a more widespread scale are not far off in.the US and I have no answer. Does anyone here have an answer to.this rapid urban decline? Rob

[Tradd]

Just briefly saw an article online that a reporter saw three shoplifting incidents within about 30 minutes at a Walgreens (I think) in SF. And people are surprised that retailers are pulling out of SF?

[Teacher Terry]

When I moved to Reno in 1997 I went to San Francisco yearly. It was such a beautiful city. The last time I went in 2019 was disgusting. There’s garbage everywhere, people shooting up, homeless everywhere and it stinks like urine. IL, I have always hated Chinatown and found it to be dirty. I much preferred japantown.

[iris lilies]

When I moved to Reno in 1997 I went to San Francisco yearly. It was such a beautiful city. The last time I went in 2019 was disgusting. There’s garbage everywhere, people shooting up, homeless everywhere and it stinks like urine. IL, I have always hated Chinatown and found it to be dirty. I much preferred japantown.
The last time I was in SF, I stayed at an inexpensive and simple little hotel in Chinatown. It was clean, and the surrounding area was clean.

I walked to Japantown, but it’s further from the city center and the convention center where I needed to be.

A couple years prior to that I stayed in a cheap place in The Tenderloin but at the time I booked it, I didn’t know it was in The Tenderloin. It was funny that the San Francisco Chronicle ran as their front page story while I was there a picture and story of a homeless person in the tenderloin, right across from my hotel, a person I had seen. I wasn’t too worried about conditions in the tenderloin, and I stayed in at night, never going out. They were some great and inexpensive Vietnamese restaurants right there.

they’ve been yammering about the homeless problem forever. This was early to mid 1990’s when I stayed in The tenderloin.

[JaneV2.0]

I loved San Francisco for its location, topography, and the diversity of its residents. I used to love to ride the bus north from Market street to North Beach and listen to all the languages. I considered moving there in the eighties.

I saw a video lately of the ghost town that is the embarcadero.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I loved San Francisco for its location, topography, and the diversity of its residents. I used to love to ride the bus north from Market street to North Beach and listen to all the languages. I considered moving there in the eighties.

I saw a video lately of the ghost town that is the embarcadero.I remember the Embarcadero. I bought a brand new sport coat there in 1996 ' the most expensive garment I've ever bought. I've worn it all of once because it's a so nice I don't want anything to happen to it. I gather this is likely a bit out there for some here - it IS very much poverty based thinking I have yet to get over. I think I'll wear it on SO's birthday next year.

It really was a nice mall back in 1996 and I felt perfectly safe meandering around town. I even went to Mecca - at least for gay people - The Castro. My take?

I much prefer Capital Hill in Seattle - though honestly, I prefer living in non-gayborhoods. I believe I can more positively impact opinions of gay people by living a dignified, not-in-your-face life amongst mostly straight people. Maybe this is why I found SF overload on a level with crossing the border at Mexicali.

Anyway, it does appear as if the SF in which I bought my wonderful cashmere sport coat with the cringy price tag no longer exists. Rob

[bae]

Anyway, it does appear as if the SF in which I bought my wonderful cashmere sport coat with the cringy price tag no longer exists. Rob

SF has "died" several times since I first arrived there in the mid-80s. Several waves of cultural death have washed across the city. I particularly loathed the "dudebro programmer" phase of the city's life.

[catherine]

I'm sad to hear this about SF, and especially about the Embarcadero. I used to travel to SF and do market research at a facility on California Street near Market, just a 10 minute walk from the Embarcadero, and would walk around that area of town a lot.

[sweetana3]

I will forever miss the 1973 San Francisco where as a very young single woman I felt incredibly safe walking around downtown. Loved the hotels, the Jewish deli on the same street, the beautful flower stalls on the street, using the cable cars whenever we wanted with no wait, and on and on. Spent 12 weeks on and off in training there.

[Rogar]

The NYT had a recent feature on the demise of Portland. I've only passed through a few times and watched Portlandia, but it always seemed like a nice city. Seems like drug and homeless perhaps like SF.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/29/us/portland-oregon-fentanyl-homeless.html?searchResultPosition=1

[iris lilies]

The NYT had a recent feature on the demise of Portland. I've only passed through a few times and watched Portlandia, but it always seemed like a nice city. Seems like drug and homeless perhaps like SF.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/29/us/portland-oregon-fentanyl-homeless.html?searchResultPosition=1

I found downtown Portland to be kind of blah and uninteresting, much to my surprise. Portland had always been The Golden City for me, a place I aspired to move to without seeing it, but other plans intervened. Now I’m very glad that move did not take place.

[Rogar]

I found downtown Portland to be kind of blah and uninteresting, much to my surprise. Portland had always been The Golden City for me, a place I aspired to move to without seeing it, but other plans intervened. Now I’m very glad that move did not take place.

Portland was on a wish list for relocation at one time. At the time real estate was relatively unaffordable, but the move never got too serious. It's not on the wish list now, but current real estate here is probably comparable these days. In another lifetime I'd like to live in the PNW, but am probably not going anywhere and it's not bad here.

[sweetana3]

We were in Portland in 2011 for a photography trip and a quilt show and found it wonderful. Loads to do, good food, beautiful scenery, fantastic transportation, great farmer's market downtown. What a change for the worse. Felt like a much smaller city than Indianapolis but wow the country surrounding it was sure impressive.

[iris lilies]

We were in Portland in 2011 for a photography trip and a quilt show and found it wonderful. Loads to do, good food, beautiful scenery, fantastic transportation, great farmer's market downtown. What a change for the worse. Felt like a much smaller city than Indianapolis but wow the country surrounding it was sure impressive.

yes, I can see liking the region of Portland if not the city itself so much. I’m sure it’s a nice city. It was just not a place with streets paved of gold, as I had always kind of imagined.

[Teacher Terry]

My kids lived in Portland in 1999 and I loved to go visit. They only stayed a few years because of the weather. My son goes a few times a year to visit a friend and said it’s really sad now to see what it’s become which is the same as San Francisco.

[KayLR]

I've lived across the river from Portland most of my life. I've shopped downtown forever and one of my most memorable outings was taking my young granddaughter shopping at Christmas when it was just magical.

Fast forward: I won't go down there anymore, not to Nordy's or Powell's. It's depressing. Many storefronts are closed and shuttered. Tents, graffiti, and trash. I used to take the light rail over to OMSI with my grandson, but haven't for several years. Many like me still do business over the river, but we range out to the burbs, not downtown. There is a lot of theft now too. Businesses close because they cannot afford to keep repairing and recovering from break-ins.

I don't know who to blame, but the downward spiral really seemed to accelerate after all the rioting following George Floyd's death at the hands of police. People just stopped going downtown out of fear, so then business suffered, which led to many closings.

Affordable housing in the whole metro area is difficult to find.

[Tradd]

Just heard on the radio news that that federal Dept of Health & Human Services has issued a work from home order for the foreseeable future for the employees at their SF office since the area around the office is unsafe.

[bae]

Just heard on the radio news that that federal Dept of Health & Human Services has issued a work from home order for the foreseeable future for the employees at their SF office since the area around the office is unsafe.

And in the 1980s I used to walk to UC Hastings a few times a week, which is on the edge of the Tenderloin District there, and it wasn't especially bad, though everyone at the time said it was.

[Rogar]

Just heard on the radio news that that federal Dept of Health & Human Services has issued a work from home order for the foreseeable future for the employees at their SF office since the area around the office is unsafe.

I had to look it up to believe it. Ironic that it's health and human services. Into the foreseeable future. . That will probably get some attention from city officials? My article said it's the epicenter of fentanyl use with open drug dealing and drug use. You'd think that would be illegal. I assume homelessness has something to do with it all.

[Tradd]

I had to look it up to believe it. Ironic that it's health and human services. Into the foreseeable future. . That will probably get some attention from city officials? My article said it's the epicenter of fentanyl use with open drug dealing and drug use. You'd think that would be illegal. I assume homelessness has something to do with it all.

I heard from a very mainstream media source - WGN AM radio in Chicago. I had to look it up myself.

[iris lilies]

I had to look it up to believe it. Ironic that it's health and human services. Into the foreseeable future. . That will probably get some attention from city officials? My article said it's the epicenter of fentanyl use with open drug dealing and drug use. You'd think that would be illegal. I assume homelessness has something to do with it all.
I don’t mean to be snarky here, but why do you believe illegality of an action shuts down that action?

No response necessary, this is a rhetorical question.

Now, think about all of the cries for “ outlawing guns” and consider that my city of St. Louis where much gun play takes place has a majority of that gun play happen with guns that are in some way, illegally held.

[Rogar]

I don’t mean to be snarky here, but why do you believe illegality of an action shuts down that action?

I mentioned that somewhat in jest, but maybe the humor was lost.

[iris lilies]

I mentioned that somewhat in jest, but maybe the humor was lost.
Oh! Gotcha.

[Portuguese John Here]

I think the film The Last Black Man in San Francisco from 2019 made a good portrait of the city and it's people's.

People who still live there, for what I've searched, mainly through videos, say it changed a lot, homelessness of the mentally ill being very dominant nowadays, it's not just in LA and NYC.