View Full Version : What do you make of Biden's latest?
gimmethesimplelife
3-29-24, 2:08pm
The new act that reclassified side hustlers such as Doordash as employees? I've read talking heads online predicting economic gloom up to the death knell for the US economy "similar to the Yankess advancing on Atlanta" as one put it.
Though I am very adept at finding legal ways around the United States of America, I do not claim to be any kind of economic expert. What's your take on Biden's latest? Let's just hope Atlanta is spared this time around, no? (Feeble attempt at humor). Rob
Which "new act", in specific?
gimmethesimplelife
3-29-24, 3:01pm
Which "new act", in specific?https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-administration-issues-rule-that-could-curb-gig-work-contracting-2024-01-09/https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-administration-issues-rule-that-could-curb-gig-work-contracting-2024-01-09/
gimmethesimplelife
3-29-24, 3:02pm
Above is an article from Reuter's that sheds some light. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-29-24, 3:04pm
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2024/03/29/biden-gig-economy-freelance-women-work/73092518007/
gimmethesimplelife
3-29-24, 3:05pm
The Reuter's article isn't working but I found one from USA today that does. Rob
Being an independent contractor I'd like to know more. In what way are they making it difficult to classify us? I read the article but there are no specifics.
gimmethesimplelife
3-29-24, 6:34pm
Being an independent contractor I'd like to know more. In what way are they making it difficult to classify us? I read the article but there are no specifics.It's called the Fair Labor Standards Act and I have more articles I've found but I can't them from the clipboard to this site as I did the two above. But I'm thinking by googling Fair Labor Standards Act you'll get a better snapshot of this latest drama. Rob
California passed a ballot initiative a few years ago that kind of created a hybrid gig worker/employee. Basically I believe they are still considered gig workers who can set their own schedules etc but the "employer" has to do things like pay minimum wage for hours worked, provide mileage stipends, health insurance stipends, workers comp, etc. It seems to be working here and the sky hasn't fallen.
https://www.uber.com/newsroom/prop-22-benefits/
gimmethesimplelife
3-29-24, 6:39pm
https://youtu.be/vtSfaw7hQiY?si=dh7_Vwd_jEWRiC83
gimmethesimplelife
3-29-24, 7:13pm
Above I finally was able to transfer from clipboard to this site on my phone. Rob
I found this website (https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/flsa/misclassification), which explained how they classify employees vs independent contractors and it seems pretty cut-and-dried. I am clearly an independent contractor. I would imagine that a Lyft or Uber driver would also fit pretty neatly into the contract status, but I'm not sure about that. I don't think this bill is going to cause all the disruption that the Youtube guy was predicting--skyrocketing credit card debt, increased unemployment rates, etc.
I'm not worried about me, or my clients having to reassign me.
YouTube guy wouldn’t get the clicks, likes and subscribes if he didn’t predict that the sky was falling. So of course he predicts that the sky will fall due to this.
I found this website (https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/flsa/misclassification), which explained how they classify employees vs independent contractors and it seems pretty cut-and-dried. I am clearly an independent contractor. I would imagine that a Lyft or Uber driver would also fit pretty neatly into the contract status, but I'm not sure about that. I don't think this bill is going to cause all the disruption that the Youtube guy was predicting--skyrocketing credit card debt, increased unemployment rates, etc.
I'm not worried about me, or my clients having to reassign me.
Looks like Uber and Lyft are saying they will leave Minneapolis May 1st due to an ordinance that would force them to pay drivers more. There are often consequences when politicians decide they are smarter than markets.
I wonder what’s different about the Minneapolis law compared to California’s. California’s was supported by both the drivers and Uber/lyft.
I wonder what’s different about the Minneapolis law compared to California’s. California’s was supported by both the drivers and Uber/lyft.
I'm not sure what's in the Minneapolis law but I'm pretty sure an appeals court reversed California's attempt to have all gig workers classified as employees, at least as it affects certain industries. I'm pretty sure Uber/Lyft drivers in California are correctly identified as contractors. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm not sure what's in the Minneapolis law but I'm pretty sure an appeals court reversed California's attempt to have all gig workers classified as employees, at least as it affects certain industries. I'm pretty sure Uber/Lyft drivers in California are correctly identified as contractors. Please correct me if I'm wrong..
The definition of "gig worker" means you don't want to be under anyone's thumb. I would agree with the CA appeals court. The only complaint I've heard from Lyft/Uber drivers during the time when I was taking a lot of them is that they over time they reduced the drivers' share. IOW, they used to take a small booking fee and a 20% commission, but over time they have raised that commission to 30% in some cases. I saw one screenshot on Quora that showed that Uber took 55% of the fee. The ride was $121 and the driver got 65. It seems that the average driver makes about $20/hour, but I'm sure that doesn't account for the gas and wear and tear on the car.
If the companies are starting to inch their profit up over time at the expense of the drivers, that sucks, and just another example of how labor loses out. But I don't think reclassifying them is the answer. To LDAHL's point, a third company that takes less commission or pays drivers more might help, until that third company sneaks in the "opportunity" to take more from the drivers.
I'm very split on this issue, but I still don't like reclassifying gig workers.
ETA: I forgot most people tip drivers, so that undoubtedly raises their hourly rate. I have always subscribed to the "tip with cash" protocol, and that's probably a good practice with drivers.
I'm not sure what's in the Minneapolis law but I'm pretty sure an appeals court reversed California's attempt to have all gig workers classified as employees, at least as it affects certain industries. I'm pretty sure Uber/Lyft drivers in California are correctly identified as contractors. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
They are. And maybe that’s the key difference. Despite being gig workers though, they get minimum wage, a health insurance stipend, workers comp insurance, and a mileage stipend.
I see that tomorrow California starts a $20 minimum wage for fast food workers, but just for franchises with more than 60 locations.
It seems easier to target specific groups than the job classification systems. What it will do for the price of Big Macs and the level of employment of covered workers remains to be seen.
And the most horrible of evil horrors, California also mandates that all workers except rare exceptions such as airline flight crews get 5 paid sick days per year.
Compassion comes easily when you can do it with other people’s money. Especially if you don’t like the other people. And if you can appear to benefit one of your political poster children like fast food workers, all the better. If they wind up getting priced out of their jobs, well, that’s just the fault of their loathsome employers.
Personally I’d rather not have a fast food worker making my food while sick.
And doing the math that’s 1 day every 10 weeks or 1 day in 50. A 2% labor cost increase. Assuming labor is half the cost of fast food a 1% price increase would pay for it. I imagine most customers won’t even notice a $.10 increase on the cost of a $10 meal. But to the workers the improvement in their lives will be quite noticeable.
ToomuchStuff
3-31-24, 9:58pm
Personally I’d rather not have a fast food worker making my food while sick.
Hopefully you mean contagious. Cancer isn't something one can just transfer, especially when the idiot about kills himself and never has planned for his demise.
Hopefully you mean contagious. Cancer isn't something one can just transfer, especially when the idiot about kills himself and never has planned for his demise.
Yes. But someone dealing with cancer probably needs more than 5 sick days.
Compassion comes easily when you can do it with other people’s money. Especially if you don’t like the other people. And if you can appear to benefit one of your political poster children like fast food workers, all the better. If they wind up getting priced out of their jobs, well, that’s just the fault of their loathsome employers.
It's a good thing someone had compassion when they put child labor laws on the table. Or OSHA laws. Or anti-discimination laws. But maybe taking advantage of people until they're squeezed dry is fair game by "the invisible hand of the market." When money is the endgame in this Monopoly game we play, too many businesses opt out of compassion in order to make more of it. In the interest of checks and balances I personally want to live in a society where somebody acts compassionately towards its citizens, whether it's the boss or the government. If the bosses won't care about their workers, I will support the elected officials who will.
It's a good thing someone had compassion when they put child labor laws on the table. Or OSHA laws. Or anti-discimination laws. But maybe taking advantage of people until they're squeezed dry is fair game by "the invisible hand of the market." When money is the endgame in this Monopoly game we play, too many businesses opt out of compassion in order to make more of it. In the interest of checks and balances I personally want to live in a society where somebody acts compassionately towards its citizens, whether it's the boss or the government. If the bosses won't care about their workers, I will support the elected officials who will.
It’s (possibly) compassion when a law covers everyone equally. It’s cynicism when you apply it solely it to a subset of one category of worker for political purposes. It’s an especially crass form of cynicism when the law will ultimately reduce the number of jobs for the people you’re purporting to help.
ToomuchStuff
4-1-24, 5:33pm
Yes. But someone dealing with cancer probably needs more than 5 sick days.
Needs yes, gets not so much.:(
I think I might have made it so I am down to around 70 hours this week, from 100+, whew.
It’s (possibly) compassion when a law covers everyone equally. It’s cynicism when you apply it solely it to a subset of one category of worker for political purposes. It’s an especially crass form of cynicism when the law will ultimately reduce the number of jobs for the people you’re purporting to help.
First of all, how do you define cynicism in this case? And second, why does caring for the common good have to come down to cynicism? Can't you be for worker's rights simply because you don't want workers to be exploited? I don't see how cynicism is part of the equation.
Needs yes, gets not so much.:(
I think I might have made it so I am down to around 70 hours this week, from 100+, whew.
Someone dealing with cancer probably will need FMLA leave, which isn't paid. Ideal? No. The best that they can get? Yeah. Most people needing the sick days California gives will be people needing it to deal with the flu or covid or whatever.
First of all, how do you define cynicism in this case? And second, why does caring for the common good have to come down to cynicism? Can't you be for worker's rights simply because you don't want workers to be exploited? I don't see how cynicism is part of the equation.
If, like LDAHL, you don't want to pay the extra $.10 for sick leave then yeah, you're one of the cynics. And one of the people likely to get covid from a fast food worker that couldn't take time off when they were sick with it.
First of all, how do you define cynicism in this case? And second, why does caring for the common good have to come down to cynicism? Can't you be for worker's rights simply because you don't want workers to be exploited? I don't see how cynicism is part of the equation.
Privileging one group over another to score political points strikes me more as pandering than serving the “public good”. I see that as cynical performative politics.
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