Conspiracy Theories

[catherine]

I'm not talking about the ones that have been bandied about during this election cycle. I'm talking about old ones--ones that I can kind of buy into.

I was just reading about James Earl Ray and how some say he was just a scapegoat--even the King family believes that Ray never shot MLK.

Then when you think about the other "lone" shooters of the 60s--Sirhan Sirhan and Lee Harvey Oswald--I just wonder what their motivation was? And the fact that Ruby shot Oswald--I don't buy it was an emotional response to his patriotism. I am open to the idea of more "motivated" suspects in both of those assassinations.

And then there's poor Pierre Salinger whose reputation went from respect to ridicule after maintaining that TWA 800 as shot down by "friendly fire"--which I think is another plausible alternative for what really happened.

Where do you stand on conspiracies--these or others? Do you think about them, or do you accept the findings of the various commissions that have ruled on them a long time ago?

[iris lilies]

There is no one size fits all. I suppose if there was a conspiracy theory that really interested me I would go down the rabbit hole, but I can’t think of any that interest me that much. Since none of the big ones capture my imagination,. it is easy to accept the findings of any official investigation.

as for controversies that interest me, the last one I can think of that interests me is the case of Natalia Grace. She’s the little girl with special needs who is adopted by an American family and then abandoned, when they said she was fully grown adult, but it’s more likely she was a child probably around eight years old. There are multiple sides of that and lots of conflicting information and “official “decisions including a judge’s ruling that seems – – problematic .

[littlebittybobby]

well---okay----one reason conspiracy theories gain support if they are kinda plausible is that people cannot believe that outrageous stuff happens on account of somee misfit who carried it out all by himself. see? they reason that it musta been a group effort motivated by some ideology, funded by an organization that hates us. Or whatever. You get my point? Hope that helps you saome.

[Rogar]

I once met an older man who claimed he was once in military intelligence and served on B-36 crew on a secret mission to transport an deceased alien, as in not of this planet. As the account goes, the timeline was around the time of the famous Roswell crash. I can't say I believe or disbelieve, but he told a quite credible and lengthy story with all seriousness.

This week I was summoned for jury duty in a case where there were no witnesses, no evidence, and only one word against another. In the questioning for jury selection, the prosecuting attorney asked, if it was just one person's word against another, how would you tell which was right. I didn't make the cut into the round of questions, but I think it excused several from their answers. But I've thought about it later. How do you tell. Neither a total mystery or hard scientific process.

[iris lilies]

I once met an older man who claimed he was once in military intelligence and served on B-36 crew on a secret mission to transport an deceased alien. As the account goes, the timeline was around the time of the famous Roswell crash. I can't say I believe or disbelieve, but he told a quite credible and lengthy story with all seriousness.

This week I was summoned for jury duty in a case where there were no witnesses, no evidence, and only one word against another. In the questioning for jury selection, the prosecuting attorney asked, if it was just one person's word against another, how would you tell which was right. I didn't make the cut into the round of questions, but I think it excused several from their answers. But I've thought about it later. How do you tell. Neither a total mystery or hard scientific process.
That is what most rape cases are, two people with differing testimony. Sometimes there is a little physical evidence of force. Not always.

That’s very interesting about transporting aliens. That is a pretty well known UFO story.Did he claim to actually SEE the alien remains? My understanding is that our federal government has recently become much more open about the data collecting on UFOs.

[Rogar]

As in the case of RFK Jr. subscribing to the theory that Sirhan Sirhan had a second shooter. In this case the two sides might be, well he's an educated man from an upstanding family who has probably researched the subject. And weight that against the fact that he has promoted many other conspiracy theories that go against mainstream experts who are more qualified on the subjects.

[Rogar]

That is what most rape cases are, two people with differing testimony. Sometimes there is a little physical evidence of force. Not always.

That’s very interesting about transporting aliens. That is a pretty well known UFO story. Did he claim to actually SEE the alien remains? My understanding is that our federal government has recently become much more open about the data collecting on UFOs.

No, he didn't see the alien. If I recall his story, it's been a few years, there was a six man armed military escort of a coffin like crate the the size of those smaller aliens they say was recovered from a crash and he learned from the from the escort of the contents somehow.

[bae]

I find it difficult to give much credence to conspiracies that would require more than 1-2 people to keep secret.

[ToomuchStuff]

I find it difficult to give much credence to conspiracies that would require more than 1-2 people to keep secret.


Not so much with the military (orders, possible prison time, governments budget to make someone look like an idiot, etc). I remember in the 80's when my dad told me his SR71 story. His military days were manning one of our missile stations connected to Norad and Congress (had a part go bad, when brand new barely to spec and quickly fell out, so a congressional investigation). Norad told him his "radar was out of calibration" until they realized they were talking to the guy that just calibrated it, then he was ordered to ignore the blip on the screen as it wasn't there. This was around 63/64. (for years he never considered himself a veteran as he never went to Vietnam like siblings)

Although I did give my former/late neighbor a bunch of grief, when I saw his military discharge papers. He was discharged and left with his nurse girlfriend, from Roswell New Mexico on June 30th 1947. Also more apt to believe in part that one, due to our fear of the Russians at the time, as well as just getting out of a war. Fear of another war (either planetary or interplanetary should scare the heck out of politicians and such)
Besides that, I would like to think finding a spaceship of some kind, would give hope to us as a species that we can rise above the bs and eventually head to the stars.

[happystuff]

Besides that, I would like to think finding a spaceship of some kind, would give hope to us as a species that we can rise above the bs and eventually head to the stars.

I like this and agree. Hopefully, we haven't destroyed our chances of friendly contact with whoever/whatever may be out in the universe.

[cx3]

or do you accept the findings of the various commissions that have ruled on them a long time ago?

Oh my, now that's some funny sh!t right there.

[bae]

I like this and agree. Hopefully, we haven't destroyed our chances of friendly contact with whoever/whatever may be out in the universe.

I have seen with my own eyes, and touched, one of the UFOs that flew over/around Roswell. I have a couple of photos I snuck, somewhere.

The Air Force has custody of it, at White Sands.

[Tybee]

I have seen with my own eyes, and touched, one of the UFOs that flew over/around Roswell. I have a couple of photos I snuck, somewhere.

The Air Force has custody of it, at White Sands.

WOW. Confirmation finally.

[bae]

WOW. Confirmation finally.

Launched by balloon near Roswell, taken to a great height, dropped, and then operated.

Alas, made by NASA, not space aliens.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/AeroshellFlyingSaucer.jpg

[Tybee]

Well, not what I expected, but I appreciate the details, and sounds like I was wrong all along. Good to hear from somebody I trust.

[bae]

Well, not what I expected, but I appreciate the details, and sounds like I was wrong all along. Good to hear from somebody I trust.

I can well imagine what the locals thought they saw when these things were buzzing around in the 50s/60s in the area!

When I saw this sitting there, I gasped a bit, and blurted to my Air Force guide "dude, did you guys catch a flying saucer or something????". He laughed and explained the deal :-). It's a Pepp Aeroshell meant for testing re-entry and soft landings for spacecraft and missile payloads, they had a few variants for different purposes that they experimented with for ages.

I like the bouncy-ball version they used for one of the Mars landings.

[Tybee]

That is really interesting!
I was just talking to my son last week about whether he had ever seen a UFO and he remembered seeing something at our old house, as did I, on a few nights, and so did his brother. But that was a long time ago and it was weird to hear him confirm what I had forgotten--his was at a different time. They were really little at the time, maybe about 8 or 9?
I remember it vaguely but I was in a coma once after respiratory failure and lost a lot of memory of the ten years prior. So sometimes the kids will tell me things and then I remember--it's like the memories are in long term storage and I need to get a connection to retrieve them. When he mentioned it I remember seeing the thing flying horizontally and then up and sort of circling, and slanted, but like I said, my memory is shot in many ways.

[happystuff]

I agree - that's so interesting, bae! And very informative. Thanks for sharing. I think I would have found it all very exciting! LOL

[LDAHL]

In the early eighties, I was assigned to USAF Space Division at Los Angeles Air Force Station. One occasional responsibility of extremely junior officers like me was to serve as Staff Duty Officer. That entailed spending the night in an underground command post and dealing with such issues as came up. Personnel getting arrested, stranded without funds, notifying Command of major events, etc. You served the shift with an NCO who managed the communication systems and generally knew what they were doing. The lieutenant was there essentially to take the blame for screwup and submit a report for Command to read over coffee the next morning.

Every so often the smirking sergeant would “elevate” a caller wanting to report a UFO sighting. There was no set policy on how to handle them, so I would get all the details I could and write them up for my report. People seemed to appreciate being taken seriously, although a few would demand I scramble interceptors. It may have led some to believe we were acting on their information.

[Alan]

Every so often the smirking sergeant would “elevate” a caller wanting to report a UFO sighting. There was no set policy on how to handle them, so I would get all the details I could and write them up for my report. People seemed to appreciate being taken seriously, although a few would demand I scramble interceptors. It may have led some to believe we were acting on their information.
In the mid 70's my primary duty at Elmendorf AFB in Anchorage was as the Law Enforcement Desk Sergeant. During my two years there I can recall taking maybe a dozen or so calls, always after hours, reporting UFO sightings in the vicinity. Most of those calls were actually from surrounding area police departments passing along information from concerned residents in their jurisdiction. We had no set policy for that sort of thing either so I would simply dispatch a patrol unit to the base perimeter in whatever direction the report came from to see if they could spot anything unusual, which they never did. I'd then make a blotter entry detailing the initial notification and our followup observations and send it along to the brass. I don't recall ever receiving feedback on those entries.

[ToomuchStuff]

Ah, the old days of project Bluebook on tv. I remember as a kid making tapes of those type of things.

Then in elementary school, we played some thing based on Star Trek, I can still remember the paper communicators we made. (girls one way, boys another)
Nasa, and Scifi had us so interested in space, Elon has brought just a tiny portion of that interest back.

[LDAHL]

In the mid 70's my primary duty at Elmendorf AFB in Anchorage was as the Law Enforcement Desk Sergeant. During my two years there I can recall taking maybe a dozen or so calls, always after hours, reporting UFO sightings in the vicinity. Most of those calls were actually from surrounding area police departments passing along information from concerned residents in their jurisdiction. We had no set policy for that sort of thing either so I would simply dispatch a patrol unit to the base perimeter in whatever direction the report came from to see if they could spot anything unusual, which they never did. I'd then make a blotter entry detailing the initial notification and our followup observations and send it along to the brass. I don't recall ever receiving feedback on those entries.

I remember being in front of the Division Commander on a different matter, and he recognized my name from my shift reports. He made some comment about future generations of crackpots poring over my reports. He said something like “congratulations kid, you’re part of history now”.

[happystuff]

Biggest conspiracy I'm personally aware of.....

The whole world is out to get me!!! :help:


(Not really - just a joke. :D)

[catherine]

Biggest conspiracy I'm personally aware of.....

The whole world is out to get me!!! :help:


(Not really - just a joke. :D)

Haha! A lot of people believe that conspiracy about themselves. I call that the "Whiner's Conspiracy Theory." Sometimes DH will pull something, "Why do these things happen to me?" and I tell him those things happen to everybody--he's not singled out. He's not special that way. I tell him "quitcher whining."

[iris lilies]

I’ve now seen two mentions in forums of the conspiracy theory that Elon Musk stole the 2024 presidential election. Somehow he worked digital magic through Starlink. Someone mentioned it here on this forum earlier.


I guess it’s another Big Lie.

[bae]

I’ve now seen two mentions in forums of the conspiracy theory that Elon Musk stole the 2024 presidential election. Somehow he worked digital magic through Starlink.


That seems like an absurd claim. Right up there with the whole "Jewish Space Lasers" nonsense.

[iris lilies]

That seems like an absurd claim. Right up there with the whole "Jewish Space Lasers" nonsense.
NBC is reporting it. The conspiracy theory, not any substantive allegation that Starlink stole the election.

Old Lady Legacy news sources are having to up their game on junk news.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/election-denialism-emerges-left-trumps-win-rcna179797

[catherine]

I just read about that from one of my favorite political/culture wars Substack writers, who simply goes by the name of Lyz

https://open.substack.com/pub/lyz/p/the-truth-we-dont-want-to-face?r=ql3fh&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

[iris lilies]

I just read about that from one of my favorite political/culture wars Substack writers, who simply goes by the name of Lyz

https://open.substack.com/pub/lyz/p/the-truth-we-dont-want-to-face?r=ql3fh&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

I don’t think much of her based on this article, but I poked around the Internet and I see that she’s written some books that might be OK and worthwhile reading. She lives in Iowa.

[catherine]

I don’t think much of her based on this article, but I poked around the Internet and I see that she’s written some books that might be OK and worthwhile reading. She lives in Iowa.

I don't like all of her articles, either, but she's a great writer--funny and smart.

[iris lilies]

I don't like all of her articles, either, but she's a great writer--funny and smart.
Today I absolutely shocked myself by reading a Judith Butler interview and agreeing with much of what she said. I actually agreed with her assessment of most things until she got into the world of “the right “where some of what she said is probably true, but it’s not true about me at all. Butler is the originator of all that is identity politics, an academic Marxist.

But then, I have to remember she is a bit of an old lady who will be thrown under the bus if she hasn’t already. She makes the distinction between sex and gender. So many contemporary transactivists do not make that distinction. In my mind that is their downfall.

[littlebittybobby]

okay----there is a group out there that posits that not ALL nazis were mean, but that there were some really nice ones, as well. But yeah---that's my contribution to this discussion. Thank mee.

[littlebittybobby]

okay-----here's another conspiracy theory: there are those who believe that the Beverly Hills Supper Club fire in Southgate, Ky was an arson, not faulty wiring. The facility had had several arson fires previously, allegedly linked to organized crime and disgruntled laborers. Southgate, in case you don't know is near Cincinnatti. Yup. In fact, I just ordered a book chronicling the events, titled: "Forbidden Fruit". Yup.

[catherine]

Today I absolutely shocked myself by reading a Judith Butler interview and agreeing with much of what she said. I actually agreed with her assessment of most things until she got into the world of “the right “where some of what she said is probably true, but it’s not true about me at all. Butler is the originator of all that is identity politics, an academic Marxist.

But then, I have to remember she is a bit of an old lady who will be thrown under the bus if she hasn’t already. She makes the distinction between sex and gender. So many contemporary transactivists do not make that distinction. In my mind that is their downfall.

I looked up Judith Butler--I didn't know of her. I'm not that interested in radical feminism. The radical feminist I'm most familiar with and have the most respect for is Lierre Keith, Derrick Jensen's sidekick. You would probably like her because she advocates against what she considers violence toward women as explemplified by things like rights for transwomen to use women's bathrooms.

Here is the Wikipedia description of one of the organization's policies, which she chairs:
"The Women's Liberation Front's activism finds its source in second-wave feminist tendencies, such as those of Mary Daly and Janice Raymond, which consider transgender identities untrue and say that women are defined by "their biology and by having 'survived girlhood'", rather than by gender identity.[3] While considered a fringe group by the mainstream progressives, who say the group conceals an essentially discriminatory right-wing ideology under the guise of feminism,[3] the organization has found influence through collaboration with conservative groups on shared legislative views."

[iris lilies]

I looked up Judith Butler--I didn't know of her. I'm not that interested in radical feminism. The radical feminist I'm most familiar with and have the most respect for is Lierre Keith, Derrick Jensen's sidekick. You would probably like her because she advocates against what she considers violence toward women as explemplified by things like rights for transwomen to use women's bathrooms.

Here is the Wikipedia description of one of the organization's policies, which she chairs:
"The Women's Liberation Front's activism finds its source in second-wave feminist tendencies, such as those of Mary Daly and Janice Raymond, which consider transgender identities untrue and say that women are defined by "their biology and by having 'survived girlhood'", rather than by gender identity.[3] While considered a fringe group by the mainstream progressives, who say the group conceals an essentially discriminatory right-wing ideology under the guise of feminism,[3] the organization has found influence through collaboration with conservative groups on shared legislative views."
I won’t urge you to read Judith Butler because I won’t read any more of what she says, but she is important in crafting idealogy for the far left.


I like that quote from Ms. Keith. It is the old broads of 2nd wave feminism who first sounded the alarm in my head about the danger of this “trans women are women” stuff. There’s yet another “woman’s space “that has been invaded by men, the Le Leche League. I will write about it on my trans thread. As usual, The Brits are ahead of us in seeing and addressing these threats.

[jp1]

I'm not talking about the ones that have been bandied about during this election cycle. I'm talking about old ones--ones that I can kind of buy into.

I was just reading about James Earl Ray and how some say he was just a scapegoat--even the King family believes that Ray never shot MLK.

Then when you think about the other "lone" shooters of the 60s--Sirhan Sirhan and Lee Harvey Oswald--I just wonder what their motivation was? And the fact that Ruby shot Oswald--I don't buy it was an emotional response to his patriotism. I am open to the idea of more "motivated" suspects in both of those assassinations.

And then there's poor Pierre Salinger whose reputation went from respect to ridicule after maintaining that TWA 800 as shot down by "friendly fire"--which I think is another plausible alternative for what really happened.

Where do you stand on conspiracies--these or others? Do you think about them, or do you accept the findings of the various commissions that have ruled on them a long time ago?

The only difference between Lee Harvey Oswald and the dude whose name no one remembers that grazed trump’s ear with a bullet at a rally a few months ago is that Oswald had better aim.

[LDAHL]

The only difference between Lee Harvey Oswald and the dude whose name no one remembers that grazed trump’s ear with a bullet at a rally a few months ago is that Oswald had better aim.

Give it time. The JFK mythology took years to reach its present state. Perhaps years from now we will see Trump assassination websites.

[Rogar]

So I heard that if a person takes a government job, even if it's with token pay, they can sell assets that would constitute a conflict of interest and not pay capital gains. As in Elon. Unconfirmed.

[Tybee]

So I heard that if a person takes a government job, even if it's with token pay, they can sell assets that would constitute a conflict of interest and not pay capital gains. As in Elon. Unconfirmed.

Maybe we are back to the Robber Baron era. Will have to bone up on my Edith Wharton.

[Rogar]

Apparently Elon claimed on X that Bezos warned people to sell Tesla and and Space X stock before the election, which Bezos has denied. The titans seem to be at odds with each other. I understand why people waste their time on X, but it's still something of a mystery to me. There seems to be a migration away from X to Blue Sky, which also seems like a time sink.

[ToomuchStuff]

The migration of an echo chamber. It will leave no real debate on either platform.

That said, my biggest conspiracy, is my business partner, the idiot, is trying to kill me by having me work seven days a week while doing chemo and not helping figure out the help (or if they are ever going to be able to work again), and is now in the hospital for stints. That way they can collect the life insurance he took out on me when his brother died and sell the place after I have got it straightened up.

[iris lilies]

The migration of an echo chamber. It will leave no real debate on either platform.

That said, my biggest conspiracy, is my business partner, the idiot, is trying to kill me by having me work seven days a week while doing chemo and not helping figure out the help (or if they are ever going to be able to work again), and is now in the hospital for stints. That way they can collect the life insurance he took out on me when his brother died and sell the place after I have got it straightened up.
yikes, that is a bleak outlook. But I won’t say that could never happen because unfortunately sometimes the bad people do prevail.

[Tradd]

The real crackball conspiracy theories - the moon landing was fake, plus Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were planned and encouraged by the US govt.

[frugal-one]

The migration of an echo chamber. It will leave no real debate on either platform.

That said, my biggest conspiracy, is my business partner, the idiot, is trying to kill me by having me work seven days a week while doing chemo and not helping figure out the help (or if they are ever going to be able to work again), and is now in the hospital for stints. That way they can collect the life insurance he took out on me when his brother died and sell the place after I have got it straightened up.

Does the business meet the definitions for FMLA?

[ToomuchStuff]

The real crackball conspiracy theories - the moon landing was fake, plus Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were planned and encouraged by the US govt.
Pearl harbor was known before it happened, between our intercepts (they kept the Japanese ambassador at bay for a bit), and the recent invention/use of radar, we had time to do something, but the intelligence was considered more important, long term.

Does the business meet the definitions for FMLA?

Too small of a business to qualify and now the situation is worse. Idiot is in the hospital having discussions with Dr. about odds verses what he needs and lying to them (sibling was there and passed on corrected information to me).
I tend to be the go between the family and the girlfriend as he intentionally made them hate each other enough they won't talk.

[iris lilies]

I have to take back when I wrote below: Sam thinks it was definitely a real assassination attempt, but that the injury to Donald Trump’s ear might’ve come from something on stage such as a Teleprompter shattering. OK I can see that, that’s not entirely crazy.


I apologize to Sam Harris.

—————————————————————————————————

As I cavort through the internet I ran across a video clip of Sam Harris talking to Bill Maher about the Trump attempted assassination in Pennsylvania.

Sam has doubts it was a real attempt. (!)

This is what Trump Derangement Syndrome does to normal brains.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c89YzTb2OVI&t=406s&pp=ygUoU2FtIGhhcnJpcyBiaWxsIG1hamVyIHRydW1wIGFzc2F zaW5hdGlvbg%3D%3D

[littlebittybobby]

okay---how manya you kids are thinking: gosh, Vance had an audeince with the Pope, and the next day the Pope is dead? Is that a coincidence or a conspiracy? Just curious. Debate this for 15 0r 20 pages. Ha.

[rosarugosa]

okay---how manya you kids are thinking: gosh, Vance had an audeince with the Pope, and the next day the Pope is dead? Is that a coincidence or a conspiracy? Just curious. Debate this for 15 0r 20 pages. Ha.

I think it was just a coincidence, but I would still welcome the chance to have him meet with my poor mother.

[iris lilies]

okay---how manya you kids are thinking: gosh, Vance had an audeince with the Pope, and the next day the Pope is dead? Is that a coincidence or a conspiracy? Just curious. Debate this for 15 0r 20 pages. Ha.
Why do you think the pope is dead? The Babylon Bee had a headline that CNN reporters were all over themselves to assure us the Pope is hale and hardy and sharp as a tack. Any rumors to the contrary are cheap fakes.

[Rogar]

okay---how manya you kids are thinking: gosh, Vance had an audeince with the Pope, and the next day the Pope is dead? Is that a coincidence or a conspiracy? Just curious. Debate this for 15 0r 20 pages. Ha.

I don't know the answer, but if a had a short meeting with Vance I would probably feel ill afterwards.

[littlebittybobby]

okay---Virginia Giuffre did NOT kill herself. It was a conspiracy. How do you like that? Discuss amongst yourself.

[rosarugosa]

I don't know the answer, but if a had a short meeting with Vance I would probably feel ill afterwards.

LOL, Rogar. Same here.

[littlebittybobby]

Okay---what about the so-called "accident" at chapp-O-qiuddick that night; can Hill-O-ree provide us with a solid alibi for her whereabouts that evening? Maybe that pretty sexretary knew too much, and it was necessary to silence her. A common occurance, in demmacratic circles. Hope you kids can come up with a plausible story, here. Thankk mee.