View Full Version : Let the deportations begin?
Possibly a little preliminary to discuss. I remember Trump's promise in previous elections to deal with a mass of illegal aliens with no real or lasting effect. His medieval wall was mostly for show. The news seems to think deportations are rising to the top as one of his day one objectives and his minions seem to be behind him. There are wild numbers being tossed around but most are in the million or many millions. Trump is saying he will send in the military and build detention centers. Stephen Miller has said he would recruit state militias from red states to overcome resistance in blue states (possibly illegal if not incendiary?) And there are the economic implications of taking away a work force doing jobs us common folk won't do.
I see immigration as one of Biden's failures, but also the elephant in the room that lame politics have ignored for many regimes. It's something I could learn more about, but how did many millions of illegal immigrants end up here in the first place. Congress has ignored meaning legislation that would legitimize DACA recipients and maybe even generations of others who have lived under the radar for decades and should or could be offered a path to citizenship. And politics has probably not funded agencies to expeditiously process people who come to the country for legitimate reason. No doubt it's a problem.
Possibly too many unknowns to talk about now, but it looks like it's coming.
iris lilies
11-18-24, 10:56pm
One thing Trump’s big loud bluster about illegal immigration does is slow down the traffic coming into our country. During his presidency isn’t true that those coming were greatly reduced from the Obama days?
Rogar, I think what you are going to see is a lot of American citizens being mistakenly deported because they will round up anyone who appears Latino, etc. That's my opinion of what will happen. That is what has happened in the past.
And you will see a lot more children separated from their parents and basically orphaned. That is also what happened in the past.
It will not be good.
catherine
11-19-24, 8:17am
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/25/politics/gop-senators-angry-trump-immigration-deal/index.html
We were super close to a bipartisan bill that Trump blew up to prevent Biden from getting a "win." That's the way he rolls. If you are a cutthroat mergers and acquisition guy, those kinds of strategies might work, but Congress should not make legisltation a hostile takeover. Another example of what will be good for Trump but bad for the country.
iris lilies
11-19-24, 10:51am
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/25/politics/gop-senators-angry-trump-immigration-deal/index.html
We were super close to a bipartisan bill that Trump blew up to prevent Biden from getting a "win." That's the way he rolls. If you are a cutthroat mergers and acquisition guy, those kinds of strategies might work, but Congress should not make legisltation a hostile takeover. Another example of what will be good for Trump but bad for the country.
Were there any good reasons to scrap that bill? Any? Any at all? Bueller?
Brookings Institute’s summary of that bill and context which Brookings says was stopped by Republicans for substantive and political reasons:
“…In the first place, many Republicans believe that the president already has all the legal authority he needs to do what needs to be done, including closing the border, and they view the Senate bill as limiting rather than enhancing executive authority. Second, many Republicans are using the border security bill the House passed early last year, HR 2 (https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2), as their benchmark. Among other provisions, this bill would end President Biden’s parole program, dramatically reduce the grounds for claiming asylum, reinstate the Trump-era “Remain in Mexico” policy, and force Biden to resume building President Trump’s border wall. Measured against this standard, the Senate bill’s compromises on asylum and border closure are bound to appear timid half-measures that will not get the job done.
Finally, many Republicans are prepared to wait until 2025 to address border security. If Donald Trump defeats President Biden and reenters the Oval Office, they believe that they will get everything they want without enacting compromise legislation that would limit Trump’s powers. In the meantime, they believe, the issue is damaging Biden, and they do not see why they should help him during an election year...
catherine
11-19-24, 11:34am
Were there any good reasons to scrap that bill? Any? Any at all? Bueller?
Brookings Institute’s summary of that bill and context which Brookings says was stopped by Republicans for substantive and political reasons:
“…In the first place, many Republicans believe that the president already has all the legal authority he needs to do what needs to be done, including closing the border, and they view the Senate bill as limiting rather than enhancing executive authority. Second, many Republicans are using the border security bill the House passed early last year, HR 2 (https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2), as their benchmark. Among other provisions, this bill would end President Biden’s parole program, dramatically reduce the grounds for claiming asylum, reinstate the Trump-era “Remain in Mexico” policy, and force Biden to resume building President Trump’s border wall. Measured against this standard, the Senate bill’s compromises on asylum and border closure are bound to appear timid half-measures that will not get the job done.
Finally, many Republicans are prepared to wait until 2025 to address border security. If Donald Trump defeats President Biden and reenters the Oval Office, they believe that they will get everything they want without enacting compromise legislation that would limit Trump’s powers. In the meantime, they believe, the issue is damaging Biden, and they do not see why they should help him during an election year...
yo
OK, thanks for that. I also poked around a little on the internet and it does seem it was an OK bill, not a great bill. But it's true that Trump was instrumental in getting it killed.
iris lilies
11-19-24, 11:35am
yo
OK, thanks for that. I also poked around a little on the internet and it does seem it was an OK bill, not a great bill. But it's true that Trump was instrumental in getting it killed.
yes, apparently so. He took a big risk (with our country…I dont like that!) but he won.
iris lilies
11-19-24, 11:39am
I predict there will be high profile cases of deportation, swooping in to some enclaves and taking people from their safe hideaways to the southern border for them to cross south. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth in the press about it. Children will be separated from parents. The ladies of The View will have material for days on end. It will be highly publicized events and at least one person will die.
But there are not a lot of resources to make meaningful inroads into ferreting out all the people squatting here illegally who are hanging out in our sanctuary settings and elsewhere. Much of the success will be in making a strong public stance against illigally coming here and that will stem some of the inflow and will scare some folks in returning to their homeland voluntarily.
rosarugosa
11-19-24, 12:15pm
I am concerned about the potential for the workforce to be decimated in certain occupations. It seems to me that we could have a total win-win if we could come up with a system to quickly and efficiently process immigrants, allowing more to come in legally and join the workforce right away. The objections I most commonly hear about immigrants is not so much about their existence in our country, but the need to feed and house them at the public's expense. My town apparently has a lot of immigrants being housed in motels along the highway. People keep calling them "illegals," but I believe they actually have refugee TPS status, which can drag on for a very long time.
However, I also agree with a wise poster on the MMM forum who said that when you see a perfectly clear and simple solution to a complex problem, it probably means there are nuances or factors of which you are unaware, otherwise the simple solution would have already been implemented.
iris lilies
11-19-24, 12:19pm
I am concerned about the potential for the workforce to be decimated in certain occupations. It seems to me that we could have a total win-win if we could come up with a system to quickly and efficiently process immigrants, allowing more to come in legally and join the workforce right away. The objections I most commonly hear about immigrants is not so much about their existence in our country, but the need to feed and house them at the public's expense. My town apparently has a lot of immigrants being housed in motels along the highway. People keep calling them "illegals," but I believe they actually have refugee TPS status, which can drag on for a very long time.
However, I also agree with a wise poster on the MMM forum who said that when you see a perfectly clear and simple solution to a complex problem, it probably means there are nuances or factors of which you are unaware, otherwise the simple solution would have already been implemented.
OhI know there is no simple solution, I’m not expecting that.
I really don’t know the numbers such as how many agricultural workers for instance are here illegally and how many here with correct documents? How many pick strawberries legally and how many do not do it legally?
OhI know there is no simple solution, I’m not expecting that.
I really don’t know the numbers such as how many agricultural workers for instance are here illegally and how many here with correct documents? How many pick strawberries legally and how many do not do it legally?
49%?
With Nearly Half of U.S. Farmworkers Undocumented, Ending Illegal Immigration Could Devastate Economy - Newsweek (https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-half-us-farmworkers-undocumented-ending-illegal-immigration-could-devastate-economy-1585202#:~:text=According%20to%20a%202018%20report %20by%20the%20U.S.,the%20top%20three%20agricultura l%20producers%20in%20the%20world.)
iris lilies
11-19-24, 2:09pm
49%?
With Nearly Half of U.S. Farmworkers Undocumented, Ending Illegal Immigration Could Devastate Economy - Newsweek (https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-half-us-farmworkers-undocumented-ending-illegal-immigration-could-devastate-economy-1585202#:~:text=According%20to%20a%202018%20report %20by%20the%20U.S.,the%20top%20three%20agricultura l%20producers%20in%20the%20world.)
need new or extended program to grant temporary work status. Does this come with government benefits? If so, perhaps we could…adjust…our expectations for that.
Immediately across the ocean on the mainland from me is the Skagit Valley, an incredible agricultural resource. The topsoil is incredible, there is abundant water, a temperate climate, and a good growing season.
https://extension.wsu.edu/skagit/agriculture/#:~:text=Skagit%20County%20maintains%20one%20of,ar e%20grown%20in%20the%20County.
Roughly half of the farm workers there are undocumented. Mostly Hispanic, very few Anglos sneak down from Canada to work the fields. There is a large community of “documented” Hispanic residents in the region, who have been working here in agriculture for generations.
This is a border region. Federal authorities, under both Democratic and Republican administrations, has a nasty habit of swooping in and grabbing people, and sorting out their citizenship…later. This has divided families. Even here on the island, they sometimes set up checkpoints at the ferry landing on the mainland, and pull people out of their cars and send them away. I get pulled over on the water when I am moving from island-to-island here on private boats.
My partner is an elementary school teacher in that Valley. She teaches 4th grade in a nifty dual-language public school, Spanish and English. The kids there receive their instruction half the day in Spanish, and the other half in English. She has a team-teacher, the kids just switch between classrooms in the middle of the day. My partner teaches Math and Science, in Spanish. She reports that the kids and families at the school are quite anxious about the language coming out of the government now. (Of peripheral interest, a significant portion of kids entering that dual-language school program, which begins at kindergarten, do not have English or Spanish as their primary in-home language, but rather Mixtec.)
It will be interesting to see how quickly all the undocumented workers quit their construction and food jobs once the mass deportations start. It seems quite possible that fear of deportation will have a bigger impact than actual deportation.
iris lilies
11-20-24, 10:41am
It will be interesting to see how quickly all the undocumented workers quit their construction and food jobs once the mass deportations start. It seems quite possible that fear of deportation will have a bigger impact than actual deportation.
Yes, the threat will be a tool for deportation for sure.
pinkytoe
11-20-24, 11:39am
I thought this article presented a common sense evaluation of mass deportation:
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-cant-keep-campaign-promises-nobel-prize-winner-deportation-tariffs-2024-11
littlebittybobby
11-20-24, 11:50am
okay---for the record, I am 100% in favor of deporting as many of those fanaticrats on the left coast and noo enngland as it takes to bring their numbers waay dowwn. But yeah---steda inflicting them on some other nation, we could rehome them to Nunivak island off the SW coast of Alaska. That island is around 1,625 square miles & since fanaticrats crowd into an area and overpopulate anyway, there should be sufficient room. Maybe Adak island in the Aleutians would be better, yet. But yeah---send them supplies, so they can subsist and protess everything as much as they want, out in the middle o' nowhere. See?
However, I also agree with a wise poster on the MMM forum who said that when you see a perfectly clear and simple solution to a complex problem, it probably means there are nuances or factors of which you are unaware, otherwise the simple solution would have already been implemented.
Of course there is also Occum's Razor that states often the simplest explanation is the most accurate. For what it might be worth.
My take is that they will go after illegals who have a criminal record first. Maybe the answer is simple and it's just not occurred to me, but how will they find these people? It's not exactly like when you rent an apartment or apply for a job, that you say my name is Bill Smith and I'm here illegally. I imagine false documents of some sort can be had for some for job applications. Border crossings where they check your papers? If you're also a convicted criminal you probably have more reason to stay under the radar.
I suppose they could have raids on places like meat packing plants and displaced government employees can fill the vacancies.
frugal-one
11-20-24, 4:19pm
Of course there is also Occum's Razor that states often the simplest explanation is the most accurate. For what it might be worth.
My take is that they will go after illegals who have a criminal record first. Maybe the answer is simple and it's just not occurred to me, but how will they find these people? It's not exactly like when you rent an apartment or apply for a job, that you say my name is Bill Smith and I'm here illegally. I imagine false documents of some sort can be had for some for job applications. Border crossings where they check your papers? If you're also a convicted criminal you probably have more reason to stay under the radar.
I suppose they could have raids on places like meat packing plants and displaced government employees can fill the vacancies.
Raids on restaurants and meat plants have routinely been done. This is nothing new.
Wasn’t E-verify going to help stem the tide of illegal immigration by making it difficult to seek employment here? Has it not been implemented or enforced? That would seem to be a fairly useful tool if used right.
frugal-one
11-20-24, 8:20pm
I-9s were supposedly to do the same. There are workarounds apparently.
Wasn’t E-verify going to help stem the tide of illegal immigration by making it difficult to seek employment here? Has it not been implemented or enforced? That would seem to be a fairly useful tool if used right.
I picture e-verify used by employers to confirm their prospective employees are somehow a citizen or here legally. My impressions is that immigrants who are here by some legal means would not be deported. It seems like a good idea, but would not help to find the illegals they wish to purge the American population of?
Raids on restaurants and meat plants have routinely been done. This is nothing new.
The large packing plant in my region has been raided by ICE at lest a few times. My guess is that another raid might turn up a few illegals, but the company is pretty careful in verifying they have the required documents. I suppose they face increasingly harsh penalties for ignoring their paperwork requirements from legal immigrants, so would be well to avoid?
I picture e-verify used by employers to confirm their prospective employees are somehow a citizen or here legally. My impressions is that immigrants who are here by some legal means would not be deported. It seems like a good idea, but would not help to find the illegals they wish to purge the American population of?
That’s true. But if it’s more difficult for people here illegally to get work here, I think that would reduce probably the primary reason for coming here. So many other countries seem to manage that well enough.
We've come a long way from Emma Lazarus' poem. I remember learning it in third grade in public school, back in the "old days" that the MAGA crowd likes to reference:
"Give me your tired, your poor,Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
iris lilies
11-22-24, 10:42am
We've come a long way from Emma Lazarus' poem. I remember learning it in third grade in public school, back in the "old days" that the MAGA crowd likes to reference:
"Give me your tired, your poor,Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
Absolutely! Let’s go back to that time of immigrant entry! There were 40 million immigrants into this country between 1900 and 1930. Thirty years.
There were 44 million immigrants in 2020 alone.
And while we’re at it we can cut back on the government funded programs for immigrants to those provided back in 1900. . I’m OK with that, are you?
Absolutely! Let’s go back to that time of immigrant entry! There were 40 million immigrants into this country between 1900 and 1930. Thirty years.
There were 44 million immigrants in 2020 alone.
And while we’re at it we can cut back on the government funded programs for immigrants to those provided back in 1900. . I’m OK with that, are you?
I'm not okay with the kind of deportations you are okay with. I am not okay with children's lives being ruined, especially when they are my fellow American citizens born here as we were. I'm not okay with the viciousness with which the president-elect's people talk about other people.
Not finding a lot of common ground, are we.
iris lilies
11-22-24, 1:32pm
I'm not okay with the kind of deportations you are okay with. I am not okay with children's lives being ruined, especially when they are my fellow American citizens born here as we were. I'm not okay with the viciousness with which the president-elect's people talk about other people.
Not finding a lot of common ground, are we.
See, the problem with your argument and that of many here is that ya’ll constantly ascribe opinions and actions to me.
I don’t even know what my opinion on details of deportation other than a very generalized “we as a society need to address people who are here illegally and also stem that tide.”
It is far too big and complex a problem to be solved with impractical detailed ideas or big platitudes from me.
But I seem to remember that every time we talk about illegal immigrants here, we come away with the agreement that the government needs to issue more temporary work Visas. so that is one step that seems OK to me.
Absolutely! Let’s go back to that time of immigrant entry! There were 40 million immigrants into this country between 1900 and 1930. Thirty years.
There were 44 million immigrants in 2020 alone.
And while we’re at it we can cut back on the government funded programs for immigrants to those provided back in 1900. . I’m OK with that, are you?
Are you saying that 44 million immigrants entered the USA in 2020?
iris lilies
11-22-24, 2:58pm
Are you saying that 44 million immigrants entered the USA in 2020?
One Googled source I read said that. I’ll go back and see if I can find it.
One Googled source I read said that. I’ll go back and see if I can find it.
It doesn’t even pass the back-of-the-envelope test. The population of the USA was 328 million in 2019, you’d think 44 million new immigrants in the year 2020 would have been noticed, as that would be a >13% increase in the total US population. The total US population in 2023 was 335 million, so, assuming no births at all, 37 million of those purported 2020 immigrants somehow died, were deported, or otherwise vanished. Doesn’t make any sense.
I suspect your figure was probably “total number of immigrants in the USA in 2020”, and the interesting thing would be to see what that curve looks like over the past 50 years or so.
iris lilies
11-22-24, 3:10pm
It doesn’t even pass the back-of-the-envelope test. The population of the USA was 328 million in 2019, you’d think 44 million new immigrants in the year 2020 would have been noticed, as that would be a >13% increase in the total US population.
I suspect your figure was probably “total number of immigrants in the USA in 2020”, and the interesting thing would be to see what that curve looks like over the past 50 years or so.
yes, you are right. Mea culpa. This is the number you are citing most likely.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1378084/migrants-stock-world-highest-population/#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20hosted%2C%20by,16 %20and%2013%20million%2C%20respectively.
I definitely saw the number 44 million but that was just in a headline when I did a lazy Google, I didn’t look at the source and it was wildly wrong.
We can all recognize that it’s impossible to know the real number of immigrants coming into this country in the year 2020 because illegal immigration makes up part of that number. And, it is to the advantage of the Biden White House to under estimate .
I will poke around further to see if I can find the total number of estimated immigrants in 2020.
…………….…………………..
i give up. It appears estimates of 10 million to 11+ million undocumented person here illegally IN TOTAL is one number, but how many cane in 2020 is unclear. Note that I chose the year 2020 at random but it does not apoarently reflect much Biden policy.
The number of persons processed legally seems to be in the range of 700,000 to 800,000 each year in recent years.
sorry, “44 million” is completely wrong. Slap me.
https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2024/06/12/politifact-how-many-undocumented-immigrants-live-in-the-u-s/74047477007/#
There seem to be two primary arguments against maintaining better control over who can enter and stay in this country. The first is the emotional “nation of immigrants” argument. Often made by the sort of people who mobilized the National Guard when exasperated Texans sent a few busloads of immigrants their way. I would argue that being in a position to decide who gets in allows us to then argue over how generous we want to be. The second is the fear that we will lose an economically valuable serf class if we discourage illegal immigration. I would think that we could address that through some sort of guest worker program. But once again, we would need to maintain some level of control over who comes in for such a program to work.
iris lilies
11-22-24, 3:38pm
There seem to be two primary arguments against maintaining better control over who can enter and stay in this country. The first is the emotional “nation of immigrants” argument. Often made by the sort of people who mobilized the National Guard when exasperated Texans sent a few busloads of immigrants their way. I would argue that being in a position to decide who gets in allows us to then argue over how generous we want to be. The second is the fear that we will lose an economically valuable serf class if we discourage illegal immigration. I would think that we could address that through some sort of guest worker program. But once again, we would need to maintain some level of control over who comes in for such a program to work.
Right. I have nothing against documenting on a temporary and controllable basis people who pick my strawberries. This assumes of course that it WILL be controlled. Protests in England this year showed the controllers are not controlling according to the promises they made when elected.England has an immigration problem , real or perceived, but certainly an issue to large swaths of their population.
I don’t even mind if Gavin Newsom extends social services benefits to those strawberry pickers, state funded services of course. California is rich and can afford it.
I DON’t even mind if Gavin Newsom extends social services benefits to those strawberry pickers, state funded services of course. California is rich and can afford it.
I suspect we will see a renaissance of interest in federalism in blue states as people like Newsom seek to be seen as leaders of the “resistance”. They may even develop an appreciation for the Chevron decision now that they’re not the ones doing the Executive Ordering.
frugal-one
11-22-24, 4:06pm
There seem to be two primary arguments against maintaining better control over who can enter and stay in this country. The first is the emotional “nation of immigrants” argument. Often made by the sort of people who mobilized the National Guard when exasperated Texans sent a few busloads of immigrants their way. I would argue that being in a position to decide who gets in allows us to then argue over how generous we want to be. The second is the fear that we will lose an economically valuable serf class if we discourage illegal immigration. I would think that we could address that through some sort of guest worker program. But once again, we would need to maintain some level of control over who comes in for such a program to work.
This has been done for many years. However, for many occupations it is just easier to have migrant workers. Some of the other programs are complicated or time-consuming to initiate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guest_worker_program
There seem to be two primary arguments against maintaining better control over who can enter and stay in this country. The first is the emotional “nation of immigrants” argument. Often made by the sort of people who mobilized the National Guard when exasperated Texans sent a few busloads of immigrants their way. I would argue that being in a position to decide who gets in allows us to then argue over how generous we want to be. The second is the fear that we will lose an economically valuable serf class if we discourage illegal immigration. I would think that we could address that through some sort of guest worker program. But once again, we would need to maintain some level of control over who comes in for such a program to work.
This has been done for many years. However, for many occupations it is just easier to have migrant workers. Some of the other programs are complicated or time-consuming to initiate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guest_worker_program
There are many areas where breaking the law is easier. But that isn’t much of an argument for breaking the law.
Lazarus wrote the poem in 1883 to raise money for the pedestal for the Statue of Liberty. In 1880, immigrants represented 13.3% of the US population. In 2023, they represented 14.3% of the US population.
U.S. Immigrant Population and Share over Time, 185.. | migrationpolicy.org (https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/immigrant-population-over-time)
frugal-one
11-22-24, 10:58pm
[QUOTE=frugal-one;440830]
There are many areas where breaking the law is easier. But that isn’t much of an argument for breaking the law.
What are you talking about? Migrant or guest workers are not breaking the law?
I'm not okay with the kind of deportations you are okay with. I am not okay with children's lives being ruined, especially when they are my fellow American citizens born here as we were. I'm not okay with the viciousness with which the president-elect's people talk about other people.
Not finding a lot of common ground, are we.
And I’m no longer ok with the “ you’re putting words in my mouth” excuses that the people on the right here routinely use. It’s tired and childish and doesn’t convince anyone that they are sincere. Especially when they toss out absurd immigration statistics and other such nonsense. It’s also a large part of why I’m pulling away from this site and will probably be gone by Inauguration Day. There are better uses of my time than arguing with a bunch of people that think anything about a second trump administration will be acceptable. The upper middle class straight white old person privilege they display is galling to say the least.
Deportations are nothing new. One can look up the exact numbers, but there is speculation Obama deported more that Trump in his first term. It does seem like Biden might have been thinking about it but fell asleep. I'm thinking there is a possibility that Trump will start out strong on the issue, and much like his other promises will peter out quickly, just like his lame attempt to build the medieval wall. There will be legal challenges. The ACLU says they've been preparing for this possibility for over a year. Trump may have the courts in his back pocket but it will at least clog things up in the system.
To deport such a large part of the work force just doesn't make good business sense (or any other good sense) and is also probably bad for golf course maintenance.
The upper middle class straight white old person privilege they display is galling to say the least.
You forgot “neurotypical”.
frugal-one
11-23-24, 6:16pm
If the shoe fits.
Denver is a sanctuary city and the city's mayor has been featured in the news lately saying he would not cooperate with the deportations and would resist any use of the military. The new deportation czar, whose name I've missed, says he would send the mayor to jail if he didn't cooperate. And the mayor said he would go to jail if it came to that. I've not see anything in the news about how other sanctuary cities are reacting, but it's early.
I've seen where Texas has offered 1400 acres to Trump for a detention facility. From my brief excursions into Texas, that's not any big deal.
Denver is a sanctuary city and the city's mayor has been featured in the news lately saying he would not cooperate with the deportations and would resist any use of the military. The new deportation czar, whose name I've missed, says he would send the mayor to jail if he didn't cooperate. And the mayor said he would go to jail if it came to that. I've not see anything in the news about how other sanctuary cities are reacting, but it's early.
I've seen where Texas has offered 1400 acres to Trump for a detention facility. From my brief excursions into Texas, that's not any big deal.
I like what Tom Homan said on the matter: “If he’s willing to go, I’m willing to send him”. I did hear that the mayor walked back his promise to oppose the feds with local cops.
It looks like there will be an overabundance of histrionics concerning illegal immigration over the next year or two.
iris lilies
11-27-24, 10:42am
I like what Tom Homan said on the matter: “If he’s willing to go, I’m willing to send him”. I did hear that the mayor walked back his promise to oppose the feds with local cops.
It looks like there will be an overabundance of histrionics concerning illegal immigration over the next year or two.
I want Rachel Maddow to cry again over deportation. I wonder if that kind of performative nonverbal commentary is written into her contract.
She had to take a $5 million pay cut due to declining business at MSNBC .
iris lilies
11-27-24, 10:44am
Lazarus wrote the poem in 1883 to raise money for the pedestal for the Statue of Liberty. In 1880, immigrants represented 13.3% of the US population. In 2023, they represented 14.3% of the US population.
U.S. Immigrant Population and Share over Time, 185.. | migrationpolicy.org (https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/immigrant-population-over-time)
I want to circle back to this statistic and thank you for it because that puts legal immigration into perspective. I mean, I think we’re talking about legal immigrants here?
Getting a handle on the number of people here in the United States illegally is difficult and I don’t even know how they would’ve counted that back in 1880.
I want Rachel Maddow to cry again over deportation. I wonder if that kind of performative nonverbal commentary is , written into her contract. As an aside, she had to take a $5 million pay cut due to declining business at MSNBC .
Joe Rogan told Elon Musk that if he buys MSNBC he’d be happy to take Maddow’s job. He said he’d even wear the same glasses and tell the same lies. I think he was kidding, though. That would represent a significant pay cut from what he’s making now.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/joe-rogan-take-rachel-maddows-job-elon-musk-buys-msnbc
I imagine Elon gets some ego building by expressing how powerful his riches are. I think he is basically motivated by insecurity. Maybe Bezos will buy Fox.
iris lilies
11-27-24, 11:46am
Joe Rogan told Elon Musk that if he buys MSNBC he’d be happy to take Maddow’s job. He said he’d even wear the same glasses and tell the same lies. I think he was kidding, though. That would represent a significant pay cut from what he’s making now.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/joe-rogan-take-rachel-maddows-job-elon-musk-buys-msnbc
Rogan is having fun with the ladies of The View.. One of them claimed Joe Rogan believes in dragons. This was immediately following her statement praising her own crew on The View for being serious journalists who never tell lies. That was in the same segment where Sunny what’s her name had to read a “ legal note” Correcting some lie she had told earlier about Matt Gaetz. I’m not making this up! These people are nuts.
so Rogan immediately changed his Twitter byline to “believer in dragons” and he is riffing on this new identity quite a bit.
When Old Lady Legacy media goes after new media, it’s never a good outcome for the old lady.
Maybe Bezos will buy Fox.
Wrangling the divas at the Washington Post and the prima donnas at Fox would be a challenge worthy of his mettle.
Rogan is having fun with the ladies of The View.. One of them claimed Joe Rogan believes in dragons. This was immediately following her statement praising her own crew on The View for being serious journalists who never tell lies. That was in the same segment where Sunny what’s her name had to read a “ legal note” Correcting some lie she had told earlier about Matt Gaetz. I’m not making this up! These people are nuts.
so Rogan immediately changed his Twitter byline to “believer in dragons” and he is riffing on this new identity quite a bit.
When Old Lady Legacy media goes after new media, it’s never a good outcome for the old lady.
It’s like he has his own version of “OK Boomer”.
The View was never much on my radar until this most recent election. I was aware of them as a sort of woke haven on daytime TV, but never paid that much attention. Then in the lead up to the recent election my various feeds began filling up with clips of them saying odd things. They seem to fill the same ecological niche on the right as that old reliable “Fox News Talking Points” did for the left.
I like what Tom Homan said on the matter: “If he’s willing to go, I’m willing to send him”. I did hear that the mayor walked back his promise to oppose the feds with local cops.
It looks like there will be an overabundance of histrionics concerning illegal immigration over the next year or two.
If I remember from the last Trump regime of promised deportations and his medieval wall, rounding up of any purported illegals is the sole responsibility of the Feds and localities can resist by not providing help from their police agencies, facilities such as jails and the sharing of information. That seemed like a legal way of resisting last time around and maybe how sanctuary cities got started in the first place? Whether that will hold for the new world order is another issue.
The Denver mayor mentioned pulling children out of schools and separating families. How it all goes down is yet to be seen, the the enormity of what Trump says he will do on his first day is logistically improbable even in longer time spans, but I imagine both of the mayor's fears are very possible.
If I remember from the last Trump regime of promised deportations and his medieval wall, rounding up of any purported illegals is the sole responsibility of the Feds and localities can resist by not providing help from their police agencies, facilities such as jails and the sharing of information. That seemed like a legal way of resisting last time around and maybe how sanctuary cities got started in the first place? Whether that will hold for the new world order is another issue.
The Denver mayor mentioned pulling children out of schools and separating families. How it all goes down is yet to be seen, the the enormity of what Trump says he will do on his first day is logistically improbable even in longer time spans, but I imagine both of the mayor's fears are very possible.
I think we will be hearing a lot of overheated rhetoric in the immediate future. Illegal immigration was such a winning issue for Trump, it’s hard to picture him moderating his tone in office. There seems to be a sizable portion of the public that sees mass deportation as a reasonable response to mass illegal immigration. Whether that remains true if it actually happens is anyone’s guess.
The “resistance” politicians striking heroic poses now, and painting lurid pictures of Gestapo raids and weeping children may run up against reduced federal funding and voter dissatisfaction if they actually follow through.
Given our limited capacity to perform deportations, I suspect what we will see in practice is a somewhat ramped up version of the efforts already being made, and probably less waving-through into “temporary protected status” than before. But with an increased decibel level.
I’m all in favor of it. Why should people think they can just walk into the US without consequences? If someone wanted to cross the border going south, Mexico would kick you out on your ear if you didn’t have the proper paperwork, required financial resources, etc.
I’m all in favor of it. Why should people think they can just walk into the US without consequences? If someone wanted to cross the border going south, Mexico would kick you out on your ear if you didn’t have the proper paperwork, required financial resources, etc.
I think there are two problems with different solutions. Allowing people to come into the country illegally is one and has been handled poorly for along time. What to do with people here illegally, but have been here for years or even generations and might have important jobs for our economy and in work our own citizens would be reluctant to take, even at a higher wage. Food services, agriculture, construction, cement work, roofing, etc. If Donald starts with what he calls criminals it's not even going to put a dent in the 13 million or so that are here (he's claimed a much higher but probably false number). So what to do with the other, say 12 million? I don't see where even any start of a mass deportation can work logistically and without an economic disruption. Deportation may be a part of an answer, but it's not going to solve everything and I'm not so sure it is the right thing to do ethically on such a scale, especially with consideration for children who have been here a while or grown up here and for families.
A best solution as I see it is to give some of these people a path to citizenship or at least a way to work here legally under certain terms of duration and registration and without some complicated process and long wait. And an expeditious way seek asylum form oppression. No doubt some should be returned.
Of course Donald may just be bluffing to slow down immigration out of fear or to appeal to his base to win the election. Or some sort of deal scheme yet to be revealed. He promised something similar his last go around and after a while people forgot or it was over shadowed by the Covid epidemic.
Deporting people isn't free. Overhead, manpower, detention facilities with medical facilities and food, paperwork, transportation, etc. The figure I've seen around is $15,000 per person but it's probably a difficult number to estimate. But using that figure times ten million or so it gets expensive.
frugal-one
11-29-24, 5:32pm
Rogan is having fun with the ladies of The View.. One of them claimed Joe Rogan believes in dragons. This was immediately following her statement praising her own crew on The View for being serious journalists who never tell lies. That was in the same segment where Sunny what’s her name had to read a “ legal note” Correcting some lie she had told earlier about Matt Gaetz. I’m not making this up! These people are nuts.
so Rogan immediately changed his Twitter byline to “believer in dragons” and he is riffing on this new identity quite a bit.
When Old Lady Legacy media goes after new media, it’s never a good outcome for the old lady.
Can’t trust anything you see on Fox News. They paid big bucks because they were pedaling lies!
I believe there will be editing of news sources after trump gets into office. He has promised retribution to those who spoke out against him. Autocracy here we come!
It's interesting how the Muskwhammy's are now at odds with the hard core GOPs over Silicon Valley foreign hires. Sort of a NIMBY thing where maybe you can restrict farm and construction workers, but heaven forbid you disrupt the digital world where each has made their fortune. https://thehill.com/policy/technology/5056699-elon-musk-vivek-ramaswamy-immigration/
Musk called the hard core GOPers "contemplable fools" who must be removed.
In the end, I'm guessing the deportations will be far less than the talk.
It's interesting how the Muskwhammy's are now at odds with the hard core GOPs over Silicon Valley foreign hires. Sort of a NIMBY thing where maybe you can restrict farm workers, but heaven forbid you disrupt the digital world where each has made their fortune. https://thehill.com/policy/technology/5056699-elon-musk-vivek-ramaswamy-immigration/
In the end, I'm guessing the deportations will be far less than the talk.
I think when someone shows you who they are, believe them.
I think when someone shows you who they are, believe them.
The latest rhetoric is that they plan to put children born in the US, who are citizens, in halfway houses when they deport their parents:
Trump border czar Tom Homan suggests US-born children of illegal migrants could be held in halfway houses (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/tom-homan-suggests-us-born-children-of-illegal-migrants-could-be-held-in-halfway-houses/ar-AA1wAFI4?ocid=BingNewsSerp)
It looks like the deportations are about number one for Trump's first day. My guess is that he will somehow make a big show of it to serve as an example, but may be more bark than bite? I'm still wondering how illegals would be identified. It's probably simple, but it's not like you raise your hand and say yes, I'm here illegally and here's my address and work place. The regional meat packing plant was notorious for hiring illegals and has been raided by ICE enough times that they must have wised up by now.
iris lilies
1-19-25, 11:30am
It looks like the deportations are about number one for Trump's first day. My guess is that he will somehow make a big show of it to serve as an example, but may be more bark than bite? I'm still wondering how illegals would be identified. It's probably simple, but it's not like you raise your hand and say yes, I'm here illegally and here's my address and work place. The regional meat packing plant was notorious for hiring illegals and has been raided by ICE enough times that they must have wised up by now.
I agree there will be lots of noise and cameras trained on this deportation effort. Actual people will have to leave our country. But the numbers? Probably won’t make much of a dent.
ToomuchStuff
1-19-25, 11:48am
They do have the information that the government put when they took people to other states, so there are government records, it's a start.
Doesn't mean people won't migrate.
Denver is a sanctuary city and evening news interviewed one of the school officials on how they would handle it if authorities tried to enter a school to grab children. Their official plan if federal authorities try to enter a school is that the school will immediately go into lockdown where no one enters or leaves and legal authorities would be contacted. It sounds like a complicated issue.
littlebittybobby
1-21-25, 9:54pm
okay----this steers the topic in a different direction, but I'm hoping yObama would take his lavish pension and his SS Dtail to Haiti, and make a meteoric rise to the top(to use some media-ese), and lead that impoverished country to prosperity. Just to show us he can. Ha. Hope that helps you kids. Thankk mee.
Trump will probably ramp things up, but the news about raids and military planes is probably a lot of media hype so far. Raids, deportations and flights returning illegal immigrants is not new and the numbers so far that the news I've seen are just a token amount. I'm going to go with another Trump bluff to some degree but not totally. I don't think even Trump is dumb enough to deport the millions he's talking about. However, there could be a lot of new job opportunities if it weren't for the fact that we're at near full employment.
6198
iris lilies
1-27-25, 9:42am
Denver is a sanctuary city and evening news interviewed one of the school officials on how they would handle it if authorities tried to enter a school to grab children. Their official plan if federal authorities try to enter a school is that the school will immediately go into lockdown where no one enters or leaves and legal authorities would be contacted. It sounds like a complicated issue.
I have always wondered what “Sanctuary City” really meams when push comes to shove, so maybe we will find out,
St. louis is a “Sanctuary city” for reproductive rights and that has never been clear to me what it actually means. I don’t think the majority of Aldermen know either.
I have always wondered what “Sanctuary City” really meams when push comes to shove, so maybe we will find our.
St. louis is a “Sanctuary city” for reproductive rights and that has never been clear to me what it actually means. I don’t think the Aldermen know either.
"There’s no legal definition for the term “sanctuary city.” Generally, it refers to municipalities that are unwilling to assist federal immigration authorities and support immigrant-friendly policies. The designation is typically a self-imposed, symbolic gesture of acceptance to immigrants and asylum-seekers."
Best as I can tell from Denver, who I think they said received 40,000 immigrants in busloads from Texas, is that local law enforcement will not assist ICE in a wholesale round up of immigrants. They notify the feds when and where an illegal immigrant might be released from jail and of course enforce other laws. And they won't resist as long as the feds stay out of churches and schools. And they will provide them some forms of aid like temporary housing and food. As closest as I've been to Denver, there was a mess of immigrants in homeless camps and begging on street corners and it was obviously not a good situation. From whatever I could tell from the news, they wanted work, but didn't have the required permits or there just weren't job openings. A few were ,or are, probably in gangs or cartels.
Some of the suburbs and other towns have made a point in saying they are not a sanctuary city, for what ever value that has.
At least to date, sanctuary status has been similar to land acknowledgment statements or those “in this house” signs. Pretty much a cost free risk free gesture. It will be interesting to see if anyone takes it farther than that.
Round ups are reputed to start in Denver Thursday. ICE may be making a dent in things. A reporter travelled to Guatemala where the arriving refugees were being greeted by the vice president. She said the numbers arriving are about the same as under Biden but they are coming in military airplanes instead of commercial aircraft. He interviewed two people. One was a woman who had lived in the US for eight years and had been charged with child neglect for not using a child's seat in her car. Another had been in the US for 19 years and convicted of trespassing. Hardly violent crimes, although I have mixed feelings about immigrants living here illegally.
ToomuchStuff
1-29-25, 10:43pm
At least to date, sanctuary status has been similar to land acknowledgment statements or those “in this house” signs. Pretty much a cost free risk free gesture. It will be interesting to see if anyone takes it farther than that.
Considering Missouri's Sanctuary 2A state went to the court and lost on a technicality, I expect the sanctuary city thing will fair no better.
Our local news predicted round ups last week including Trump's notorious Aurora and the sanctuary city of Denver. Other than a few of the usual normal drug busts of illegals, so far it's been pretty much a nothing burger.
iris lilies
2-2-25, 11:34am
The St. Louis sub-reddit was ablaze because ICE showed up at a Mexican restaurant and hauled off one person.
Protests took place downtown about, apparently, immigration tactics since that is what all signs I viewed (via photo) were about.
So far just another day in St. Louis, protestors protesting things many Americans agree with.
ToomuchStuff
2-2-25, 9:57pm
So far just another day in St. Louis, protestors protesting things many Americans agree with.
So were the protesters not citizens of the Unites States? If so, doesn't seem like a good idea to have illegal immigrants protest all in one place and be easy for ICE.
So were the protesters not citizens of the Unites States? If so, doesn't seem like a good idea to have illegal immigrants protest all in one place and be easy for ICE.
There was apparently a protest in Dallas with many illegals. It would have been like fishing in a barrel.
iris lilies
2-2-25, 10:36pm
So were the protesters not citizens of the Unites States? If so, doesn't seem like a good idea to have illegal immigrants protest all in one place and be easy for ICE.
I assume most of them are citizens.
flowerseverywhere
2-3-25, 8:14am
https://www.foxnews.com/us/la-freeway-blocked-anti-deportation-protesters-response-trumps-crackdown-illegal-immigration
here is a pointless protest. Los Angeles freeway was blocked on both sides by protesters waving Mexican and other South American flags. Trying to drive through LA on a good day is very busy. So blocking a freeway anywhere blocks workers going to work, medical and emergency services, people with small children and everyday citizens just living their life. Stupid and dangerous. And it takes law enforcement away from doing more useful things with their time.
how in the world will this be seen as favorable to their cause? It only leads to more anti immigrant sentiment and more support for Trumps policies.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/la-freeway-blocked-anti-deportation-protesters-response-trumps-crackdown-illegal-immigration
here is a pointless protest. Los Angeles freeway was blocked on both sides by protesters waving Mexican and other South American flags. Trying to drive through LA on a good day is very busy. So blocking a freeway anywhere blocks workers going to work, medical and emergency services, people with small children and everyday citizens just living their life. Stupid and dangerous. And it takes law enforcement away from doing more useful things with their time.
how in the world will this be seen as favorable to their cause? It only leads to more anti immigrant sentiment and more support for Trumps policies.
That goes for anyone with the stupid idea to protest by blocking roads. I always say it’s too bad it’s illegal to run over people blocking the road. They certainly are effing clueless blocking the road.
iris lilies
2-3-25, 10:18am
For a few years I have been watching Cash Jordan’s New York City videoa. He is a rental agent who takes viewers on tours of NYC apartments and their neighborhoods.
In the past few days he pivoted to making videos narrating ICE actions in the Sanctuary City of New York. ICE picking up criminals. The illegal immigrant criminal gangs in NYC are a big problem on the streets, in shelters, with businesses. They intimidate other immigrants. They steal. They use enormous amounts of police resources, already in shortages.
I am actually shocked Cash and his fellow New Yorkers are enthusiastic about what is happening there with the deportations. They are praising Trump policies. His videos which normally get a few hundred thousand views are getting views into the millions for his deportation videos. He is providing very good “man on the ground” scenes of reality in this turbulent time.
sample videos from Cash on NYC deportations:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aIWAl6Ivivs&t=12s&pp=ygULQ2FzaCBqb3JkYW4%3D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LDKostoR_d0&pp=ygULQ2FzaCBqb3JkYW4%3D
IL, I watched a few minutes of each video. The guy probably has a point, although I don't think the situation is as obvious as he presents. At least from my perspective from the news of Denver's sanctuary status, he is misleading. Sanctuary status doesn't protect criminals or avoid their arrests for crimes or hide them. They get some housing and food. They are protected from ICE in schools, churches, and maybe hospitals. From our news, local authorities actually work together with ICE and DEA to round up violent criminals, gang members, and drug dealers. They don't assist ICE with deportation proceedings that are a part of federal law. They notify ICE when an illegal person arrested for crimes is set to be released. I would think of the failure of the control of NYC crime as a fault of local police.
More power to ICE and any other help they get for cleaning up the NYC streets of gangs and crime. I don't understand the blame on sanctuary cities. It's probably complicated and I may not know everything.
People make money from uTube once they get enough views to monetize. It's probably a temptation for some.
iris lilies
2-3-25, 11:32am
IL, I watched a few minutes of each video. The guy probably has a point, although I don't think the situation is as obvious as he presents. At least from my perspective from the news of Denver's sanctuary status, he is misleading. Sanctuary status doesn't protect criminals or avoid their arrests for crimes or hide them. They get some housing and food. They are protected from ICE in schools, churches, and maybe hospitals. From our news, local authorities actually work together with ICE and DEA to round up violent criminals, gang members, and drug dealers. They don't assist ICE with deportation proceedings that are a part of federal law. They notify ICE when an illegal person arrested for crimes is set to be released. I would think of the failure of the control of NYC crime as a fault of local police.
More power to ICE and any other help they get for cleaning up the NYC streets of gangs and crime. I don't understand the blame on sanctuary cities. It's probably complicated and I may not know everything.
People make money from uTube once they get enough views to monetize. It's probably a temptation for some.
Denver as Sanctuary City may operate differently than NYC in how/when local police work with ICE.
According to these Cash Jordan reports, ICE wasn’t allowed in NYC schools, churches, shelters prior to now. (True? I don’t know) I think this push by Trump operatives is cleaning out badnicks from New York City immigrant population who had been tacitly allowed to stay, for reasons as you say probably complicated.
Of COURSE Cash is making money from YouTube, it is his livelihood. I was shocked to see him deviate from years of apartment and neighborhood tours to this topic. If you had asked me about his political leanings I would’ve told you I assume he’s a supporter of Sanctuary City goals.
Blocking roads is popular around the world. We saw it in Mexico, Thailand and even in China.
According to these Cash Jordan reports, ICE wasn’t allowed in NYC schools, churches, shelters prior to now. (True? I don’t know) I think this push by Trump operatives is cleaning out badnicks from New York City immigrant population who had been tacitly allowed to stay, for reasons as you say probably complicated.
The whole situation appears to have a positive end, but I'm not so sure I'd take the word of a realtor utuber as the only or best source. I doubt that drug dealers, gangs and other violent offenders are actually hiding out from ICE in schools and churches, whether they get access or not.
Blocking roads is popular around the world. We saw it in Mexico, Thailand and even in China.
Not so popular with the people being blocked, I would think.
Still nothing in the news about anything unusual. Local news featured a few non-sanctuary counties who said they would assist with deportations of criminals who had committed a crime in the state, but would not help the feds much beyond that. I've not read if any big round-ups nation wise.
The idea of holding illegals at Guantanamo and/or outsourcing domestic violent offenders or illegals to foreign prisons is interesting.
Still nothing in the news about anything unusual. Local news featured a few non-sanctuary counties who said they would assist with deportations of criminals who had committed a crime in the state, but would not help the feds much beyond that. I've not read if any big round-ups nation wise.
The idea of holding illegals at Guantanamo and/or outsourcing domestic violent offenders or illegals to foreign prisons is interesting.
Right, don't underestimate the cruelty of this administration.
I'm beginning to think it's just another of Trump's bluffs. There's some sort of media PR program going to deter new people from entering, like the use of military planes, and propaganda program of fear to encourage self deportation, but what ever news I've seen says deportations are no greater than some of the times under Obama and Biden. I'd like to speculate that Guantanamo is one of those propaganda ideas that will never come to pass. What ever it is, it's a nothing burger for day 1.
I'm beginning to think it's just another of Trump's bluffs. There's some sort of media PR program going to deter new people from entering, like the use of military planes, and propaganda program of fear to encourage self deportation, but what ever news I've seen says deportations are no greater than some of the times under Obama and Biden. I'd like to speculate that Guantanamo is one of those propaganda ideas that will never come to pass. What ever it is, it's a nothing burger for day 1.
Respectfully, with this person, I have stopped believing that he is bluffing about anything. I have come to believe that with Trump, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."
Respectfully, with this person, I have stopped believing that he is bluffing about anything. I have come to believe that with Trump, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."
Sure, I'm purely speculating and you could be right. The tariffs are looking like a bluff to me, but that may not be over. All the talk about Canada being the 51st state, Greenland, the canal, and Gaza appear to be a bit of strength bolstering fantasy to me, too, but that may not be over yet, either.
Today's news reported a round up of drug dealing gang members to be deported, but the number is looking like only maybe a hundred. A combined effort of ICE, the DEA, and Homeland, but local law doesn't seem to be involved. A school bus tried to pull up to one of the apartments to pick up kids for school and was blocked, but it's sounding like they only picked up gang related criminals that had been under surveillance for many months before Donald.
"‘Karoline Leavitt announces that "today, the first flights from the United States to Guantanamo Bay with illegal migrants are underway."’(Feb 4 on Bluesky)
Wonder what staunch supporters of trump think about all the kerfluffle of the administration. Alan … what say you?
iris lilies
2-7-25, 10:57am
Wonder what staunch supporters of trump think about all the kerfluffle of the administration. Alan … what say you?
Did something happen yesterday? I am trying not to follow Trumpian news with the breathless anticipation of people like you so I may have missed it.
Wonder what staunch supporters of trump think about all the kerfluffle of the administration. Alan … what say you?
I think it's interesting to watch the resistance response to the new executive branch of our government. I believe an audit looking for waste, fraud and abuse within the massive bureaucracy under its control is in order and it puzzles me that so many people disagree.
I think that in a country of 340,000,000 people if the government is the largest employer in the nation, it may be too big.
I believe that controlled immigration is a good thing but illegal immigration is bad.
I believe that massive tariff's would do harm to our citizens if that were the end goal, but if it were a negotiating tactic to strengthen our economy by bringing production back to our country, the threat has merit and I would support that.
Those seem to be the biggest sources of the current kerfuffle so now you're up to date on my thoughts. Would you care to share yours?
Truth be told, Alan, I try to limit my watching of the news but it is impossible to get away with not seeing trump. His ridiculous/unqualified picks for cabinet positions is worrisome. I don’t think Musk, who has contributed(bought) trump should be near any of government activities.. if for no other reason but conflict of interests. Eliminating the Dept of Education and USAID is ludicrous. We need to properly educate our children and aid given has been to countries, who in some situations, help combat diseases that could easily spread worldwide. The bottom line should not just be dollars saved. There needs to be protections in place for a number of occupations. musk and trump will try to eliminate safeguards. Just blanket closures of government departments is foolhardy IMO….AND illegal!
iris lilies
2-7-25, 7:36pm
Truth be told, Alan, I try to limit my watching of the news but it is impossible to get away with not seeing trump. His ridiculous/unqualified picks for cabinet positions is worrisome. I don’t think Musk, who has contributed(bought) trump should be near any of government activities.. if for no other reason but conflict of interests. Eliminating the Dept of Education and USAID is ludicrous. We need to properly educate our children and aid given has been to countries, who in some situations, help combat diseases that could easily spread worldwide. The bottom line should not just be dollars saved. There needs to be protections in place for a number of occupations. musk and trump will try to eliminate safeguards. Just blanket closures of government departments is foolhardy IMO….AND illegal!
Has the Department of Education actually ever educated a child?
IL… Indirectly, by providing the means for many to be educated. I believe the demolition of this agency will be a detriment to education. The amount spent is not astronomical but the consequences of not keeping up with our adversaries could be. I would prefer not giving monies to charter schools…
IL… Indirectly, by providing the means for many to be educated. I believe the demolition of this agency will be a detriment to education. The amount spent is not astronomical but the consequences of not keeping up with our adversaries could be. I would prefer not giving monies to charter schools…
They have an annual budget of nearly a quarter trillion dollars with some of that allocated to states but that seems to be dependent upon how faithfully those states follow their guidelines.
There was no Dept of Education during my public school years but I seem to recall that our collection of state systems routinely ranked higher internationally than our current system does. I think the best thing our DOE could do would be to abandon the idea of controlling public education and focus on just helping fund it. I tend to doubt that requires 5000 employees issuing edicts to local districts in return for funding.
DOE 2025 budget:
https://www.ed.gov/sites/ed/files/about/overview/budget/budget25/summary/25summary.pdf
If you can believe Wikipedia, their budget was $238 billion in 2024, down from a high of $637 billion in 2022. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Education
I think it's interesting to watch the resistance response to the new executive branch of our government. I believe an audit looking for waste, fraud and abuse within the massive bureaucracy under its control is in order and it puzzles me that so many people disagree.
I think that in a country of 340,000,000 people if the government is the largest employer in the nation, it may be too big.
I believe that controlled immigration is a good thing but illegal immigration is bad.
I believe that massive tariff's would do harm to our citizens if that were the end goal, but if it were a negotiating tactic to strengthen our economy by bringing production back to our country, the threat has merit and I would support that.
Those seem to be the biggest sources of the current kerfuffle so now you're up to date on my thoughts. Would you care to share yours?
I get all that, but what do you think of Musk's methodology? Both the staffing and the surprise aspect?
I get all that, but what do you think of Musk's methodology? Both the staffing and the surprise aspect?
I don't know. It occurs to me that if a very large organization wanted to make necessary changes to its infrastructure within a reasonable time limit, say 18 months or so, it might bring in bright, motivated contractors to audit each organizational component and make timely recommendations in order to fulfill the mission within the specified time frame.
If that organization attempted to do it internally, within its own bureaucracy, it might take decades. I don't think it unusual to give it more than a few weeks to start evaluating results before deciding which way is better.
I don't know. It occurs to me that if a very large organization wanted to make necessary changes to its infrastructure within a reasonable time limit, say 18 months or so, it might bring in bright, motivated contractors to audit each organizational component and make timely recommendations in order to fulfill the mission within the specified time frame.
If that organization attempted to do it internally, within its own bureaucracy, it might take decades. I don't think it unusual to give it more than a few weeks to start evaluating results before deciding which way is better.
If an organization brought in a contractor, the contractor would give advice but not be given carted blanch authority to make changes. In government, contractors (usually) do not have a vested interest in the outcome of the changes they are implementing and usually, in my experience, not as invested in doing the best job. Musk has lots to gain and too much of a vested interest in how things shake out. He is being given too much authority for a non elected civilian. Companies and government are not run the same … nor should they be handled the same IMO.
I still say, for me, it's just a crazy idea that a vindictive, amoral, traitorous, narcissitic, greedy, power-hungry, lying son-of-a-bitch conman should not hold the highest office in the land, no matter what party they are, or what their platform is.
Character matters, and it amazes me that so many people I love and admire for their good character have voted for a President that doesn't deserve to lick the soles of their shoes.
early morning
2-9-25, 10:37am
I still say, for me, it's just a crazy idea that a vindictive, amoral, traitorous, narcissitic, greedy, power-hungry, lying son-of-a-bitch conman should not hold the highest office in the land, no matter what party they are, or what their platform is.
Character matters, and it amazes me that so many people I love and admire for their good character have voted for a President that doesn't deserve to lick the soles of their shoes.
EXACTLY this!!
I still say, for me, it's just a crazy idea that a vindictive, amoral, traitorous, narcissitic, greedy, power-hungry, lying son-of-a-bitch conman should not hold the highest office in the land, no matter what party they are, or what their platform is.
Character matters, and it amazes me that so many people I love and admire for their good character have voted for a President that doesn't deserve to lick the soles of their shoes.
Ditto. In addition, Musk fits several of those descriptors.
Among all of Donald's/Musk's egregious cost cutting measures, the reduction in science and health related departments and employees top my list of idiocy. But it's hard to pick. Some are saying the cost cutting will make room for tax cuts for the wealthy without such a huge increase in the national debt. I suspect the debt ceiling will rise to the top of the fermentation again. I've not seen anything about the military budget, which seems like a huge element of discretionary spending in the budget.
In spite of Don's day one deportation talk, there is still little unusual activity reported in our local news outlets.
iris lilies
2-9-25, 12:33pm
I still say, for me, it's just a crazy idea that a vindictive, amoral, traitorous, narcissitic, greedy, power-hungry, lying son-of-a-bitch conman should not hold the highest office in the land, no matter what party they are, or what their platform is.
Character matters, and it amazes me that so many people I love and admire for their good character have voted for a President that doesn't deserve to lick the soles of their shoes.
yes, I agree.. He is not temperamentally fit to be President of the United States.
The rest of it is just needless detail, as far as I am concerned.
I caught a little bit of a live meeting of Trump and the Prime Minister from Japan. A hand shake and Trump hands him a nice folder with maybe an 11x14 photo in a nice folder of the the two meeting in front of the flags of their nations and shaking hands. Then he says, and oh, I have this too. And hands him what I'm almost certain was a framed photo of Trump holding up his hand after being shot in the ear. It was a quick motion. The guys is so shameless it almost made me laugh.
iris lilies
2-9-25, 2:37pm
I caught a little bit of a live meeting of Trump and the Prime Minister from Japan. A hand shake and Trump hands him a nice folder with maybe an 11x14 photo in a nice folder of the the two meeting in front of the flags of their nations and shaking hands. Then he says, and oh, I have this too. And hands him what I'm almost certain was a framed photo of Trump holding up his hand after being shot in the ear. It was a quick motion. The guys is shameless. It almost made me laugh.
Well, like it or not, it was an epic moment when Trump raised his arm in defiance of any assassination bullets, It was one of the wonderfully wacky political theatre moments of June -November 2024.
Well, like it or not, it was an epic moment when Trump raised his arm in defiance of any assassination bullets, It was one of the wonderfully wacky political theatre moments of June -November 2024.
I have wondered if, somewhere inside that 78 year old mind, he might actually might believe he was saved for a mission from the Lord to lead us out of darkness and into the promised land of cryptocurrency.
Well, like it or not, it was an epic moment when Trump raised his arm in defiance of any assassination bullets, It was one of the wonderfully wacky political theatre moments of June -November 2024.
Hardly!
iris lilies
2-9-25, 9:07pm
I have wondered if, somewhere inside that 78 year old mind, he might actually might believe he was saved for a mission from the Lord to lead us out of darkness and into the promised land of cryptocurrency.
in the immediate aftermath I spoke with two of my relatives, neither Trump fans of various intensity, and we were all kind of shocked about this— sign from God? Sign from the devil? —Who’s protecting this guy anyway? it was unreal.
I'm not big on traditional religions, but the teachings have some nuggets of higher wisdom. The Lord works in mysterious ways.
gimmethesimplelife
2-10-25, 8:33pm
yes, I agree.. He is not temperamentally fit to be President of the United States.
The rest of it is just needless detail, as far as I am concerned.Thank You, IL. I could not agree more with you here. Rob
Pretty much nothing in the news here, in spite of Denver being a sanctuary city. I'm starting to think it's another of DT's bluffs to encourage self deportation. a show of power, or less immigration. One report I saw today said Trump deported 38,000 in his first month compared with Biden's average of 57,000 per month during his last year.
iris lilies
2-21-25, 7:09pm
Pretty much nothing in the news here, in spite of Denver being a sanctuary city. I'm starting to think it's another of DT's bluffs to encourage self deportation. a show of power, or less immigration. One report I saw today said Trump deported 38,000 in his first month compared with Biden's average of 57,000 per month during his last year.
I like the idea of “self deportations” as well as keeping people from entering illegally in the first place. Both are inexpensive to U.S.,taxpayers.
I like the idea of “self deportations” as well as keeping people from entering illegally in the first place. Both are inexpensive to U.S.,taxpayers.
The down side could be that DT lied about deporting millions of people here illegally, but that's nothing new in our era of disinformation. Maybe it's coming (ha).
iris lilies
2-21-25, 9:25pm
The down side could be that DT lied about deporting millions of people here illegally, but that's nothing new in our era of disinformation. Maybe it's coming (ha).
but Trump is always using big words and exaggerations. Isn’t it a win/win situation if 1) he doesn’t deport millions and millions, but just targets the troublemakers and criminals and 2) all the big noise he’s making reduces naturally illegal immigrants in our country?
Seems like a win-win to me, in that people who were crying about deportation won’t be so concerned with lesser numbers and people like me are happy that illegal residents are reduced in number at what may be a reasonable cost.
The degree by which the means justifies the end, where a falsehood or lie is used as the means, is an ethical choice. There could be times among my ethics where it's acceptable on small matters. The fact that it's DT's modus operandi is what I see as a problem. How far should one go when the means is an authoritarian in a position of power tells the public the Haitian illegals are eating pets? As an example. Telling people there is going to be mass deportations and without the intention of carrying through is a falsehood, but yes, it seems to be effective as much as the news filters and political theater allow.
As a recent NYT headline said, in DT's alternate reality, lies and distortion drive change. That's not right, good, or ethical.
Pardon the simple cut and paste. It just got my attention.
A group of prominent military contractors, including former Blackwater CEO Erik Prince, has pitched the Trump White House on a proposal to carry out mass deportations through a network of “processing camps” on military bases, a private fleet of 100 planes, and a “small army” of private citizens empowered to make arrests.
The blueprint — laid out in a 26-page document President Donald Trump’s advisers received before the inauguration — carries an estimated price tag of $25 billion and recommends a range of aggressive tactics to rapidly deport 12 million people before the 2026 midterms, including some that would likely face legal and operational challenges, according to a copy obtained by POLITICO.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/25/documents-military-contractors-mass-deportations-022648
littlebittybobby
2-25-25, 2:38pm
okay----i interrupt this program to bring you kids this important news bulletin (see photo).6250
iris lilies
2-25-25, 2:46pm
okay----i interrupt this program to bring you kids this important news bulletin (see photo).6250
hum, so Greene County taxpayers will have to house these prisoners until their cases are reviewed and decided. Then plans to deport them occur. Then logistics to carry out the plans must be determined.
looks like US taxpayers are gonna get hit for this stuff, but at least it won’t accrue to the federal budget which will make Donald’s team and their bottom line look good.
littlebittybobby
2-25-25, 3:19pm
okay---the cost of jailing them wetbacks is a wash, since there is usually that many of 'em in the jail at any given time, anyway! See? Hope that helps you some. Thankk mee. But yeah--Now, go turn in your reppubbliccan party membership card. Yup.
flowerseverywhere
3-17-25, 10:52pm
Back to deportations. There is a Venezuelan community in Miami that voted heavily for Trump and local news was interviewing people. They were stunned to lose protective status. They never thought his vow to remove people would ever apply to them. The same story is being echoed across the country who assumed they were never going to be deported and voted for Trump.
why didn’t voters believe him when he said he was going to be a dictator on day 1 and that mass deportations were going to happen.
Very little he has done should be surprising. He said he would do this. And Tom Holman, border czar, said he does not care what the judges think. Therefore they sent the planes to El Salvador after being ordered not to. All over the country people are stunned over other incidents. I just can’t understand it
The prison they are sending the supposed gang members in El Salvador is appalling. It was established to hold over 40,000 prisoners from the El Salvador drug crackdown and is over flowing. No visitors, prisoners are not allowed outside, no recreation, no educational or vocational opportunities, etc. Prisoners are housed in cells that hold 50 or 80 men. Trump supposedly paid El Salvador 6 million to house the deportees. I suspect in the mass round-up of supposed gang members they picked up a few guys like the nice man who works at Rico's Upholstery down the street with no gang ties. I'd not realized such a place even existed until reading about it recently.
I've not seen much evidence of mass deportations of the numbers that would make a dent in the supposed 10-15 million illegals, but the media publicity seems to focus on deterrence or self-deportation with some high profile instances.
After seeing those videos, I'd help anyone not get deported. The glee of those fox news people--man, it does make you think there will be a literal hell.
And Tom Holman, border czar, said he does not care what the judges think. Therefore they sent the planes to El Salvador after being ordered not to. All over the country people are stunned over other incidents. I just can’t understand it
Yeah, it seems we no longer have a judicial branch of the government. Just a bunch of Trump lackeys with law degrees. I hope people like John Roberts and the Supreme Court can be an effective line of defense, but I'm doubtful.
flowerseverywhere
3-26-25, 6:14am
https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/25/business/florida-child-labor-laws/index.html
the solution to the labor shortage in Florida has been found. Change the child labor laws. One of the articles I read said that since enforcing the Everify laws, many undocumented have left the state and there are 54 workers for every 100 jobs. This is a very unfriendly state these days but everywhere you go there are crews of Spanish speaking dark skinned laborers doing landscaping, cleaning, construction etc.
one of my grandmothers worked in a mill at 12 years old, as did her 9 year old sister according to census documents. Those were the “good ole days.”
frugal-one
3-26-25, 3:42pm
OMG! We are reverting to the 1930’s…. damn them!
OMG! We are reverting to the 1930’s…. damn them!
https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/julie-andrews-the-sound-of-music.jpg
frugal-one
3-27-25, 8:34am
https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/julie-andrews-the-sound-of-music.jpg
Child labor laws being rescinded is hardly “the sound of music”!
early morning
3-27-25, 10:55am
no but fleeing/fighting the Nazis COULD be the sound of music. literally or figuratively. Unless you like Wagner.
frugal-one
3-27-25, 11:57am
no but fleeing/fighting the Nazis COULD be the sound of music. literally or figuratively. Unless you like Wagner.
The reference above was rescinding child labor laws in the US. Don’t understand your reference? Wagner?
early morning
3-27-25, 12:23pm
Oh, sorry, there was much ado about Wagner being a favorite composer of Hitler. The Sound of Music is anti-Hitler. Anything anti-Hitler and all other wanna-be types is music to MY ears. A stretch to child labor laws but a direct link, IMHO, to other current goings-on that are equally distressing, anti-decency, and anti-democratic. Please pardon my mental meanderings. I shall attempt to cease and desist.
That's how I read it, early morning.
Those of you who are so gung hung for deportations will be pleased to know that last week they deported a 10 year United States citizen because her parents were Mexican citizens, and they grabbed the family enroute to the child's cancer treatments and dumped them in an unfamiliar town in Mexico, and she will not get her cancer treatments and will probably die.
There. There's your heroes in action.
That's how I read it, early morning.
Those of you who are so gung hung for deportations will be pleased to know that last week they deported a 10 year United States citizen because her parents were Mexican citizens, and they grabbed the family enroute to the child's cancer treatments and dumped them in an unfamiliar town in Mexico, and she will not get her cancer treatments and will probably die.
There. There's your heroes in action.
I find that context should be applied to stories such as this to help us better understand what has actually happened. I'm not sure if your source mentioned it or not but the girl was not deported, she could have remained in the US with a temporary guardian or under the care of the Texas social services system although her parents chose not to go that route. It's also unfair to assume for the sake of outrage that cancer treatments are not available in Mexico and that the girl will probably die as a result. Your source did you a dis-service by leading you to believe so, I absolutely detest "news" sources who do this sort of thing.
I think it's terribly unfortunate for the girl to be in this position but I'm certain her parents will do the right thing and either make the proper arrangements to have her treated in the US or find a Mexican service provider and transfer her treatments to their home country.
I find that context should be applied to stories such as this to help us better understand what has actually happened. I'm not sure if your source mentioned it or not but the girl was not deported, she could have remained in the US with a temporary guardian or under the care of the Texas social services system although her parents chose not to go that route. It's also unfair to assume for the sake of outrage that cancer treatments are not available in Mexico and that the girl will probably die as a result. Your source did you a dis-service by leading you to believe so, I absolutely detest "news" sources who do this sort of thing.
I think it's terribly unfortunate for the girl to be in this position but I'm certain her parents will do the right thing and either make the proper arrangements to have her treated in the US or find a Mexican service provider and transfer her treatments to their home country.
I hope that they can do so, and yes, there was nothing about how she could have stayed with a temporary guardian.
I think it's terrible that they deported this family when they were getting cancer treatments for their child, and terrible a US citizen was deported.
In these days of disinformation it pays to check up on news sources. Last night the obnoxious ad from Homeland Security came on during my evening news program. Neom says that if you are forcibly deported, you can never return to the US. However, if you self deport you can some day come back and live the American dream. This is technically not true according to current law, but makes for good fear mongering. It pays these days to especially check on anything coming from the current regime of election and climate deniers.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-long-after-deportation-must-i-wait-before-returning-the-us.html
In these days of disinformation it pays to check up on news sources. Last night the obnoxious ad from Homeland Security came on during my evening news program. Neom says that if you are forcibly deported, you can never return to the US. However, if you self deport you can some day come back and live the American dream. This is technically not true according to current law. It pays these days to especially check on anything coming from the current regime of election and climate deniers.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-long-after-deportation-must-i-wait-before-returning-the-us.html
Yes, with the story I mentioned, I checked again and here is what it said from NBC. I am guessing the child was being treated at MD Anderson, which is the best cancer hospital in the world and probably where I would want my child treated if she had brain cancer:
"As a 10-year-old girl with brain cancer and her family traveled from Rio Grande, Texas, to Houston for an emergency checkup in early February, immigration officers detained her, her undocumented parents and her four other siblings. The parents were later deported, and the children were also sent back to Mexico.
Now, her parents wonder what will happen to the girl’s health, NBC News (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/us-citizen-child-recovering-brain-cancer-deported-mexico-undocumented-rcna196049) exclusively reported.
NBC News withheld the names of the family to protect their safety, as they are now in an area of Mexico known for kidnapping of U.S. citizens.
Four of the five children are U.S. citizens. The family traveled at least five other times between the two cities for the girl’s ongoing care associated with her pediatric brain cancer. The trip required going through an immigration checkpoint. On prior visits, the parents provided letters from lawyers and doctors, which allowed them safe passage, Danny Woodward from the Texas Civil Rights Project, which represents the family, told NBC.
Officers detained her parents when they failed to show correct documentation of legal immigration status. While the mom pled with authorities about her daughter’s health, “they weren’t interested in hearing that," she recalled to NBC News in an exclusive interview.
Other than not having "valid immigration status in the U.S.," the parents do not have a criminal history, according to Woodward."
I think this is shameful, personally.
I think this is shameful, personally.
It is certainly wrong by any of my ethical standards. Not to mention the religious golden rule principals of the supposed Christian right, which any more seems like a political faction more than anything.
catherine
3-28-25, 11:31am
It is certainly wrong by any of my ethical standards. Not to mention the religious golden rule principals of the supposed Christian right, which any more seems like a political faction more than anything.
I agree... And you are right, Tybee, MD Anderson is one of the best cancer centers in the world. Plus, treatment is of the essence--delays in treatment, even short ones, can cost lives. So I don't think the parents have the time to shop around for health care in Mexico.
flowerseverywhere
3-28-25, 1:28pm
It is certainly wrong by any of my ethical standards. Not to mention the religious golden rule principals of the supposed Christian right, which any more seems like a political faction more than anything.
my ethical standards as well. But as Allen pointed out, they had other choices. This is what Trump voters wanted. They won the election. Around here in Florida people are getting picked up all over and being deported. There were four articles in this mornings paper about multiple traffic stops. The joy and glee people are expressing in comments to the articles barely shocks me anymore. It is why Trump was reelected.
But in any country, if you are found to be there without legal entry papers this is what you risk.
early morning
3-28-25, 2:25pm
the supposed Christian right, which any more seems like a political faction more than anything. in a 2020 survey by a religious group (Ligonier ministries) 30% of evangelicals do not believe in the divinity of Christ. That number is now 43%, according to other sources. So nearly half of Evangelical Christians ARE a political, not a religious, faction. I am an atheist. I am NOT an Atheistic Christian. If someone does not believe in the divinity of Christ, HOW ARE THEY CHRISTIAN?? I want to be shocked by man's inhumanity to man. I do not want to be desensitized. I do not want to feel I'm becoming LESS human. But it's sure getting hard.
We can blame the Trump regime for some of the inhumanity and hatred by labeling illegals as animals, drug dealers, and murderers. The situation is not being handled correctly. However, it's a problem that has been festering for several regimes and congress or the president of the day have been unable to properly address it due to political tribalism and fighting, and it has ended in decision paralysis.. My small piece of pontificating anyway.
In the specific case, parents who have worked here steadily for ten years in responsible jobs, who have had four children who I suppose are citizens by being born here, and who have no criminal records should have a better opinion other than the one presented.
flowerseverywhere
3-28-25, 4:57pm
Another incident:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/green-card-holder-50-years-detained-ice-rcna198044
Women comes to us and has a green card. Works and in 2000 embezzles from a bank. 9 times. Is caught and has 10 days community service. Ordered to pay back the $6000 and takes 19 years to do so.
leaves to visit Philippines, detained upon reentry as she has conviction for embezzlement.
children say she did not get citizenship because she has family land n Philippines and didn’t want to chance losing it.
these are the kind of stories I’m reading everyday here in Florida. Is it fair? I don’t know. If you are a business owner and had lost money this way the answer is probably yes.
if that is the law that you lose green card status what is there to say? I don’t know. I’m neither an immigration attorney or judge. But the initial article I read about this did not mention the crime or land ownership. So be careful what you read. She has a hearing scheduled so we will all find out.
ApatheticNoMore
3-29-25, 2:42am
This about students here legally being deported? Certainly one relative pretty much, from a country we have always been at war with called Denmark (like Canada we have always been at war with Denmark!!!), says they will not protest anything due to threats of deportation. To tell the truth they weren't the protesting type anyway and aren't young. But certainly it would make them a candidate for deportation if they were.
flowerseverywhere
4-1-25, 11:18am
Oopsie. We deported the wrong guy but we can’t get him back. Fox News site.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/vance-doubles-down-trump-admin-112746961.html
iris lilies
4-1-25, 1:57pm
This about students here legally being deported? Certainly one relative pretty much, from a country we have always been at war with called Denmark (like Canada we have always been at war with Denmark!!!), says they will not protest anything due to threats of deportation. To tell the truth they weren't the protesting type anyway and aren't young. But certainly it would make them a candidate for deportation if they were.
It is indeed chilling to think simple peaceful protesting is now an act unfriendly to the U.S.
But it is also good to remember that legal non citizens here are still our guests, and their behavior acts as an audition for citizenship.
iris lilies
4-1-25, 1:58pm
Oopsie. We deported the wrong guy but we can’t get him back. Fox News site.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/vance-doubles-down-trump-admin-112746961.html
It is naive to think any large scale government action is carried out perfectly. I knew some people would be caught up improperly in these deportation efforts. That is too bad.
Oopsie. We deported the wrong guy but we can’t get him back. Fox News site.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/vance-doubles-down-trump-admin-112746961.html
It would appear that the person in question was slated for deportation 6 years ago but was then granted a reprieve after claiming that he would be tortured if returned to his home country. The reprieve did not provide assurances that he would not be deported, just that he would not be deported to his home country. The mistake made last week was not that he was the wrong guy or that he should not have been deported, but rather that he was indeed deported to his home country. I guess we'll have to see how that plays out but the one thing for sure is that you have to wade through an awful lot of activism disguised as journalism to get a relatively informed grasp of the facts.
Trump's own justice department has admitted he was deported to a veritable torture dungeon in error. Whether he was a family man married to an American wife, working as a sheet metal worker, and shared fatherhood over a disabled 5 year old child and granted some form of asylum. Or or an MS-13 gang leader involved in human trafficking with no legal right to be here seems to depend on who's telling the story.
Trump's own justice department has admitted he was deported to a veritable torture dungeon in error. Whether he was a family man married to an American wife, working as a sheet metal worker, and shared fatherhood over a disabled 5 year old child and granted some form of asylum. Or or an MS-13 gang leader involved in human trafficking with no legal right to be here seems to depend on who's telling the story.
Well, there is documented evidence that an immigration court judge found in 2019 that he was an MS-13 gang member, was a threat to the community, was a flight risk and should be deported. After that ruling, he was granted temporary asylum due to his contention that if returned to his home country he faced a threat from rival gangs.
I think it's possible that the conflicting impressions of him that you've named may both be true. I just find it interesting that the majority of news coverage of his case seem to focus on one and ignore the other.
Well, there is documented evidence that an immigration court judge found in 2019 that he was an MS-13 gang member, was a threat to the community, was a flight risk and should be deported. After that ruling, he was granted temporary asylum due to his contention that if returned to his home country he faced a threat from rival gangs.
I think it's possible that the conflicting impressions of him that you've named may both be true. I just find it interesting that the majority of news coverage of his case seem to focus on one and ignore the other.
As usual, I had to look up things as most of the story got by me in my usual news sources. I double checked and it barely got mention in my legacy news. I've been thinking about how to celebrate Liberation Day, anyway. I've been thinking about getting a bunch of one dollar bills in an open wallet, then turning on a room fan towards it and watching the bills get liberated from my wallet.
The story Reuters is telling is that his lawyers has denied him being a member of MS-13 and his gang ties were only "purported". And that it was his 2019 court judgement that actually protected him from deportation. Another said he's not been convicted of any crime for 12 years.
"The ICE official said in Monday's filing that the agency was aware of the earlier court order blocking Abrego-Garcia's removal. He was not on the March 15 flight's initial manifest, but was assigned to the flight as "an alternate" as other people were removed from the flight for various reasons, the filing said."
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/trump-administration-says-man-deported-el-salvador-in-error-2025-04-01/
littlebittybobby
4-1-25, 6:31pm
okay---it's better to deport a few wrong illegal aliens, than to just let everybody stay. End of story. But yeah-- It's just so damn transparent that letting ALL of them stay is what fanaticrats are demanding. The answer is NO, and that's it! I've been conjuring up a new list of progressive issues. By progreessive, I mean progressively WORSE. As soon as IO've come up with an addition to the agenda of the Loony Left, I will be glad to share it with you kids. Thank mee.
flowerseverywhere
4-1-25, 6:38pm
I guess we'll have to see how that plays out but the one thing for sure is that you have to wade through an awful lot of activism disguised as journalism to get a relatively informed grasp of the facts.
immigration and customs admitted it was a mistake.
a lot of these stories mention only one side. But why would they have admit it was a mistake if it wasn’t?
like the signal text chain including a reporter, this will swept under the rug and democrats will be blamed and name called and derided. And I’m not even a democrat.
no worries. Only a persons life. Not important. Carry on.
immigration and customs admitted it was a mistake.
a lot of these stories mention only one side. But why would they have admit it was a mistake if it wasn’t?
like the signal text chain including a reporter, this will swept under the rug and democrats will be blamed and name called and derided. And I’m not even a democrat.
no worries. Only a persons life. Not important. Carry on.
Immigration is one of those areas like nuclear energy or Social Security or the deficit where we can’t seem to have an adult conversation. Everybody plunges into his extreme anecdote or nut-picking example or impugning of the other view’s motives.
I do agree that we should defenestrate the national security officials over the signal leak. As a very junior Air Force officer, I saw people crucified for a lot less. Although I did find it a bit galling that Hillary Clinton had the Chutzpah to weigh in on the importance of data security.
Immigration is one of those areas like nuclear energy or Social Security or the deficit where we can’t seem to have an adult conversation. Everybody plunges into his extreme anecdote or nut-picking example or impugning of the other view’s motives.
I do agree that we should defenestrate the national security officials over the signal leak. As a very junior Air Force officer, I saw people crucified for a lot less. Although I did find it a bit galling that Hillary Clinton had the Chutzpah to weigh in on the importance of data security.
We should “lock ‘em up”! tit for tat!
We should “lock ‘em up”! tit for tat!
I would certainly like to see them suffer consequences more severe than she got away with.
One thing I've been curious about is why the people they are sending to El Salvador as purported gang members, possibly for the rest of their lives and without any hearing, can't just be normally deported. I'm assuming there are plenty of routine deportations going on, although it's not been in the news much. I've not seen much in our local news about any big roundups, even if Trump's Operation Aurora is not far away. There was one big bust of a couple of hundred supposed gang members, but not much more. It was before they were disappearing people to foreign prisons, so I assume they just got a regular deportation?
I just noticed the other day that a couple of the usual corners with people holding up signs for food, money, or work have been empty. I suppose that would make them a prime target for ICE, although there may be others reasons.
The last numbers I saw only went out to the end of March but according to them there were just over 100,000 illegal immigrants deported between January 20th and March 31st. Probably more significantly, there seems to be better than 50,000 less monthly illegal border crossings since then as well.
I'm guessing that anyone looking for those big roundups of all brown skinned people to fuel their moral outrage will be disappointed at the manner in which the deportations are actually happening. Of course the sheer numbers of people in the US who have entered the country illegally ensures that this clean up will take years to accomplish, and possibly never will happen if we go back to open borders.
I'm still not sure why they are disappearing supposedly "alien enemy" people to a foreign prison with a possible life sentence rather than just sending them back. I suspect it's all part of a scare tactic and publicity campaign to encourage self-deportation and discourage border crossings, which seems to be working regardless of ethics and veracity. It apparently depends on gang association rather than any supposed crimes.
So gang members without criminal history get prison, and run of the mill robbers or domestic abusers who are here illegally just get deported?
Probably up for debate, but my quick look says that Trump has not deported many more than the same time as Biden in his last year in office. That doesn't count for self-deportation numbers, which are probably impossible to estimate. It's still a long ways to go and just a dent of the 10 million or so illegals either way.
Probably up for debate, but my quick look says that Trump has not deported many more than the same time as Biden in his last year in office. That doesn't count for self-deportation numbers, which are probably impossible to estimate.
I believe there were just over 250,000 deportations in calendar year 2024. With only a few months of 2025 to compare it would appear that there may be as much as 5 times more deportations this year.
It's still a long ways to go and just a dent of the 10 million or so illegals either way.Yes, it will probably take several decades to deport just the ones who came into the country illegally over the past 4 years.
Yes, it will probably take several decades to deport just the ones let in over the past 4 years.
I wonder what that number would be. Those let in, minus deportations, as a percentage of 10-15 million. In the last four years. And what the number would be for Trump 1.0 as a comparison.
I wonder what that number would be. Those let in, minus deportations, as a percentage of 10-15 million. In the last four years. And what the number would be for Trump 1.0 as a comparison.
I don't know, although I do recall an ICE estimate of approximately 2.5 million encounters at the border during the first Trump administration and approximately 11 million encounters during the Biden administration. But that's not as granular an answer to your question as it deserves.
That does seem like a lot. I suppose many came here for work and went back. It seems to me like a lot of those millions have been here for a long time, even before either one.
But since enquiring minds like to know. Your numbers were close. I might not be far off either. I was no great fan of Biden's border policies, but let the cards fall where they may. I still wonder about why they are sending people to the El Salvador prison from hell for a possible lifetime, rather than just deporting them
"The US Department of Homeland Security has estimated there were 11 million illegal migrants (https://ohss.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2024-06/2024_0418_ohss_estimates-of-the-unauthorized-immigrant-population-residing-in-the-united-states-january-2018%25E2%2580%2593january-2022.pdf) living in the US as of January 2022.
It says about a fifth of them arrived in 2010 or later but the majority arrived before this time, some as early as the 1980s."
From BBC Verify
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0jp4xqx2z3o
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