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gimmethesimplelife
12-5-24, 12:09pm
What's your take? I myself have foresaw such since the mid 80's and am amazed that it took so long to happen.

And no, it's not right. But then again neither is illegally denying patient claims to boost share price/executive bonuses. Perhaps this murder will prevent a few innocent policyholder deaths via illegal denial of claims for corporate profit?

A. We can hope, no?

B. The United States really HAS sunk to this. It warms my heart to see more people seeing this! Rob

Tradd
12-5-24, 12:32pm
Company was apparently under investigation by the feds.

Rogar
12-5-24, 3:08pm
The latest I saw was that the recovered bullet casing have the words "delay" and "deny" written on them. It probably doesn't take much to conclude a general motive.

littlebittybobby
12-5-24, 9:22pm
okay-----I really feel soooooo sorry for that Dude. Just because he makes MILLIONS per year for himself, while arbitrarily denying health care claims for critically ill people, doesn't give anyone the right to kill him. But yeah--it should. Thank me. Enjoy yourself in Hell, Brian.

Alan
12-5-24, 10:13pm
Yep, if you think someone isn't giving you something you deserve, just kill em, that'll teach em.

littlebittybobby
12-5-24, 11:35pm
Yep, if you think someone isn't giving you something you deserve, just kill em, that'll teach em. hAl, you've got to admit that Brian won't be denying any more claims, will he? Hopefully, they'll stop paying him his "compensation" too. Ha. That's one way o' fixing the prollem; just ask summa the fanaticrats. Problem solved. Good job. Let it send a message to those other greedy high rollers in tall buildings. But yeah-- Issue the Pardon, pre-emptively. End of story. Case closed.

littlebittybobby
12-5-24, 11:42pm
okay---there was an article where a fambly from Zurra wuz awarded a $300,000,000 judgement 'ginst a 'musement park in Fla(armpit of America), because one o' their luved ones fell outta a ride and killed hisself. He din't have no seatbelt on, and he weighed closeta 400 pounds! Ker-splat! But yeah---what's wrong with that? You may discuss this among yourselves; I'm going back to Packard issues, here. Thankk Mee.

littlebittybobby
12-5-24, 11:49pm
okay----one other thing, Al: there was an attempt to assassinate Hitler, as WW2 raged on. The plot involved a bomb, carried into a meeting where Adolph was present. I suppose you think THAT was wrong, hAl? I'm invoking Godwin's Law to Win the debate. Hoping that helps you some, Dude. Thank mee.

Tybee
12-6-24, 6:17am
One may not do evil so that good may result from it.

catherine
12-6-24, 9:46am
The healthcare system is broken. That's the point. No one has to die to make that point. And repealing Obamacare isn't going to do it because Obamacare's only problem is it didn't go far enough. It's a good first step--Obama had to do a lot of compromising to get it passed. Even the payers I interview admit that it's an unsustainable system. The gross profiteering involved in healthcare is insane and immoral.

pinkytoe
12-6-24, 11:19am
These systems are all related - eat unhealthy food, get chronic disease and then try to deal with even greedier health insurance companies. I guess we are all complicit as we close our eyes ad don't demand better. I do feel though for the sons of of the CEO. Having your Dad murdered is a tough one.

LDAHL
12-6-24, 12:12pm
What's your take? I myself have foresaw such since the mid 80's and am amazed that it took so long to happen.

And no, it's not right. But then again neither is illegally denying patient claims to boost share price/executive bonuses. Perhaps this murder will prevent a few innocent policyholder deaths via illegal denial of claims for corporate profit?

A. We can hope, no?

B. The United States really HAS sunk to this. It warms my heart to see more people seeing this! Rob

Sunk to what? Seeing the bright side to murder?

So you think it’s a good idea to butcher the occasional CEO to encourage the others? Would the same logic apply to teachers who send functional illiterates out into the world or grocers who sell wilted lettuce?

early morning
12-6-24, 4:27pm
The gross profiteering involved in healthcare is insane and immoral. Agreed. While I don't condone the killing, I have to admit that part of me thinks "wow, it couldn't have happened to a bigwig of a better industry". Honestly, I can muster very little sympathy for him. For his kids, I feel very badly. Losing a father at a young age has to be a terrible thing. But, I know other fathers, and other people's beloved children, who were lost due to the lack of compassion in the profit driven healthcare system. So there is that. And I wonder - is this the cause that will force a reckoning of our insane economic divide? Is this the issue that will being JQ Public into the streets, and behind the barricades? Reading responses to this story, I have to say I'm a bit surprised by the apparent deep seated resentment towards our health"care" system. This could be a tempest in a teapot, or a real turning point. Who knows?

bae
12-6-24, 5:59pm
My daughter points out to me that this sort of thing doesn’t seem to happen to the executives who run the NHS in the UK, even though the NHS does engage in rationing behaviour.

Rogar
12-6-24, 7:49pm
I might have to read the book that was supposedly an inspiration, or at least get some sort of valid summary, to understand the motivation. My end of career employer used UHC as their health insurance carrier and the feed back I heard from fellow workers was complimentary. Maybe that changes for older people with more serious and common ailments. Once I was asked to change from name brand medication to generic. At least a couple doctors I've talked with have complained about compensation and cost to self-insure outside of employment seems excessive, but has little to do with denied procedures or treatments? I don't question that the health care system is broken, but denying coverage for a medical condition that should or could have been covered by insurance is not something I know much about.

The new regime will not doubt offer some changes to the system, for better or worse.

catherine
12-6-24, 8:25pm
It's not just the heathcare insurers. It's a dance among the pharmaceutical companies, insurers and pharmacy benefit managers and the physician. New branded products are often a fortune, so the insurers don't just approve them until cheaper drugs have been tried and had limited effect. And it's true that they will deny treatment if they think it's too expensive unless the doctor appeals. But the whole process is so time-consuming and costly for the doctors, who typically have staff whose sole job is to go back and forth with the insurance company, that they give up and prescribe an alternative.

Plus, time is money in the hospital, so that's a whole other matter. Have you read how insurance companies are going to limit the amount of time that anesthesia is used in the OR? At least one group of anesthesiologists is protesting.

It's OK to have gatekeepers, but while many insurers do have medical degrees, they have to think like businessmen, not clinicians. Insurance companies are typically less restrictive in areas like oncology and mental health, but they still make the majority of their decisions on the basis of cost.

iris lilies
12-6-24, 8:37pm
Direct care, physicians cut out some of that dance with insurance companies.

Catherine, that reminds me, at my holiday lunch with some garden club ladies I polled five separate women and asked if their doctors do a blood test annually and they each one of them said yes, each with a different physician. I cannot understand why your physician does not order a basic blood test.

Rogar
12-6-24, 8:43pm
I'm sure all of that is true. I just get some different messages from experiences. Both my primary physician and a routine specialist have complained about the insurance allowances do not allow them to cover overhead, insurance, plus a fair wage. If the insurance companies are making huge profits, where can I buy stock like to buy stock. I had a casual discussion with my primary care doctor recent about insurance coverage for the popular weigh loss drugs. He said it varied, but commonly insurance would ask for some sort of verification from the doctor that the patient had been recommended to pursue diet and exercise as a first line of treatment. If they covered it at all. How many people would rather just take a drug first? Denied/ I've actually been employed in an R+D drug enterprise, and the cost of getting approval is enormous and private companies are entitled to be compensated.

I'm not specifically arguing, but it's just not all that simple to me.

catherine
12-6-24, 8:52pm
No, it's not simple. That's the problem.

iris lilies
12-6-24, 9:03pm
I'm sure all of that is true. I just get some different messages from experiences. Both my primary physician and a routine specialist have complained about the insurance allowances do not allow them to cover overhead, insurance, plus a fair wage. If the insurance companies are making huge profits, where can I buy stock like to buy stock. I had a casual discussion with my primary care doctor recent about insurance coverage for the popular weigh loss drugs. He said it varied, but commonly insurance would ask for some sort of verification from the doctor that the patient had been recommended to pursue diet and exercise as a first line of treatment. If they covered it at all. How many people would rather just take a drug first? Denied/ I've actually been employed in an R+D drug enterprise, and the cost of getting approval is enormous and private companies are entitled to be compensated.

I'm not specifically arguing, but it's just not all that simple to me.

Let us not forget that Obamacare put in the place of stipulation that health insurance companies could only make X amount of profit survey have to return any money above that.

Rogar
12-6-24, 9:31pm
I have wondered how much medical doctors and specialists actually make and have, and of course googled whatever stats the internet will tell you. My impression is that it's nice, but not all that great compared to mid-level corporate America or high tech. I had a primary care physician I really liked and once called to get a recording that he had left private practice for financial reasons. I see a dermatologist twice a year and another specialist and they are booked months ahead of time.

I think there is a shortage of physicians, for one reason being they may not be compensated for the level of education and devotion required. And also they basically just want to do medicine and avoid all of the insurance and paper work bureaucracy. Anyway, I don't think anyone is soaking anyone else, it's just a giant of bureaucratic tangle.

Maybe RFK, Jr. will make a difference if we don't all die from bird flu first. I think the current regime is privatization over government control.

Tradd
12-6-24, 10:04pm
It seems to be more common for doctors to be employed by big hospital groups, which means they get regular hours
(of course, depending on specialty) and don’t have to worry about the stuff involved with owning a private practice.

LDAHL
12-9-24, 12:10pm
How long until we see a “Law and Order” episode based on this?

Rogar
12-9-24, 5:54pm
I wonder if he will have a story to tell about a medical situation that motivated him. Or he could be just another angry man.

I see Ted Cruz has called it anti-capitalism and said "leftism is a mental disease". I suspect The Family is looking to privatize Medicare administration and he's getting in political favor with The Boss.

Alan
12-9-24, 7:57pm
I see Ted Cruz has called it anti-capitalism and said "leftism is a mental disease". I suspect The Family is looking to privatize Medicare administration and he's getting in political favor with The Boss.
LOL, I think an accurate descriptor stands on its own merit and has no need of ulterior motives.

Rogar
12-9-24, 8:49pm
Yeah, funny how some others would say conservatives have deficient mentality because they just call peoples names like school children. Like Lyin Ted, which possibly had no motivation. These guys live in a world of agendas and it goes both ways.

From my point of view as a senior I can be glad the conservatives have not had their way, even if we're a bunch of communists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Coffee_Cup

LDAHL
12-9-24, 9:58pm
Looks like the guy they’ve taken into custody is a unibomber fan who carries around his own manifesto against the health insurance industry. Your basic self-appointed nut job terrorist.

The “I’m against violence, but…” people will accord him folk hero status for fifteen minutes and move on to something equally ridiculous.

littlebittybobby
12-9-24, 10:42pm
okay----yes, it didn't take long for the cops ta catch up with Fonzarelli or whoever. Early on, I just KNEW that big roman nose of his was gonna be his downfall. He shoulda worn a theatrical mask to disguise himself, and completely avoided stopping for Cwaffee and stuff, and just kept walking. Not discarding anything he had handled, either, until he was free and clear of that whole area, where the manhunt was on. Otherwise, they'dve had a very hard time making the connection. Like the old saying..."Very smart, Mr Smart; but not smart enough" Yup. Well, maybe they'll give him Ted's old cell at the SuperMax. Thankk mee.

littlebittybobby
12-10-24, 9:11pm
okay----they have a susspect, named Guido Mancini or whatever, and during the perp walk, he yelled at reporters: "I don't know what this is all about; they say that someone killed an insurange guy; I'm just a patsy!" So, yeah---it sounds like he's being framed for what was an inside job by his co-workers. A perfect set-up, and the only real evidence is that he's italian. See? I'm also sitting here, wondering if that snitch at mickey dees is going to get the reward money? Probably not.

littlebittybobby
12-11-24, 11:46am
Okay----Some photos(see photos). He's just a patsy. More evidence. 61336134 Thankk mee. Yup.

bae
12-12-24, 1:27pm
I do loathe the US health insurance system.

I spent two hours on the phone yesterday, dealing with two different insurers and 2 different state agencies (and narrowly avoiding talking to a 3rd, because the person at the second told me it would make things worse, and fixed my problem herself). Wasted time for all of us.

The facts:

I went down yesterday to pick up a medication at my pharmacy that is normally $0.79 cost to me, per month. It was, yesterday, $12.90, which seemed off, so I asked the pharmacist what the deal was. She typed away at her terminal a bit, and came back with “because you don’t have insurance, that’s odd. Looks like you won’t until 1/1/2025”.

I was unable to resolve the situation in the store via phone or phone-based web browser.

When I returned home, I dug into the problem. Turns out, last month, when it came time during “open enrollment” to indicate I wished to continue with my plan, Mistakes Were Made by the state-provided health insurance navigation system, which I am forced to use here. I had to give it some additional information, which seemed to be mostly address/identity related. During that process, it, without my consent, cancelled my current insurance, which had been valid until the end of this year, and put me on the lowest-level state-provided insurance plan. It then would not allow me to renew my existing plan, or select any other. I called my insurance-navigator specialist (someone paid by the state to unwedge things), and he fixed it up within 30 minutes, and had me properly signed back up, or so I thought.

Until I discovered to my horror yesterday that as a result of this 30 minute shell game in November, indeed I have had *no* insurance for nearly a month, and won’t have it until January. (Again, the cancellation of my current plan was done by a web-application and backend database, without my consent, and I suspect the implementers aren’t sophisticated enough to even *spell* “AI”…)

I was totally exposed, insurance-wise.

The people yesterday at the various agencies treated my issue with care and concern, and in only two hours of multi-agency cooperation, managed to unravel things, figure out what happened, and get me on at least some minimal coverage until the end of the month. (This coverage is horrid, my designated provider on this is the next county over, and would take me a day to get to, and has none of my medical information or history. But if I break a leg tomorrow, guess where I have to go…)

Anyways, the system needs redone top-to-bottom, but the way to do that is not by killing people in the streets.

bae
12-12-24, 1:46pm
Another minor health insurance rant:

I live in one of the healthiest counties in the USA. However, our demographic is very skewed towards the older side of the age spectrum.

Over the past few years, insurers have been pulling out of the county completely - no longer renewing policies, or offering new ones.

We are down to 1 or 2 choices, in a good year. People who use Medicare/… insurance (I don’t pretend to understand the various Medi* programs) are basically SOL in the coming year, *nobody* is offering the insurance they want in the county next year.

I’m not sure how our state insurance regulators allow this situation, but there it is.

iris lilies
12-13-24, 2:13pm
Another minor health insurance rant:

I live in one of the healthiest counties in the USA. However, our demographic is very skewed towards the older side of the age spectrum.

Over the past few years, insurers have been pulling out of the county completely - no longer renewing policies, or offering new ones.

We are down to 1 or 2 choices, in a good year. People who use Medicare/… insurance (I don’t pretend to understand the various Medi* programs) are basically SOL in the coming year, *nobody* is offering the insurance they want in the county next year.

I’m not sure how our state insurance regulators allow this situation, but there it is.

I read this yesterday and forgot to come back and comment. It is unconsciousable that you were without health insurance due to a technical screwup. I hate that.

I am happy with my health insurance both the private parts and the Medicare. I cant remember that we’ve had any insurance bills. we of course pay monthly premiums.

I have a direct care physician. Earlier in the week I called her office to schedule a minor procedure and ask that they fit me in within the next few weeks. She said “come in tomorrow. “Since I couldn’t do that, she said “come in the next day.” This is my actual physician, not her office staff.

I have no trouble with my direct care physician and I recommend recommended everyone try that model if you have a physician practicing near you .

yesterday I heard on NPR a program that was moaning about health insurance companies. They interviewed an American physician from Romania who now has a direct care practice. She has a specialty of some kind. She related how she used to spend so much time in her previous practice negotiating with insurance companies and it was awful.

So yeah, direct care is a way to go when that is an option. I realize it’s not always an option for everyone.

littlebittybobby
12-13-24, 2:45pm
okay----I believe it is appropriate for me to post this photo(see photo), since this thread has wandered off-topic. But yeah---Fr Guido Sarducci. What do you think o' that? Hope thatt helps you some. 6137

Rogar
12-13-24, 7:33pm
This is my small, but recent story. My dermatologist prescribed a cream that supposedly would be available the next day. I've had the same prescription a couple of years before with no problems. When I went to pick it up at the pharmacy, they had bounced it back to the doctors office asking for justification, claiming there were cheaper alternatives. They suggested when I return a few days later, which I did and they were still waiting for a final approval and had processed the request a second time. Of course I could have called the Dr. office or insurance, but the pharmacy said I could pay cash and it would be $40.00 which I did. About two weeks later I got a letter from insurance saying the prescription had been approved.

So I'm guessing hundreds of dollars in Drs. office times, insurance times, and pharmacy times, letters and FAXes etc. were all quibbling over $40. due to poor insurance provider efficiency. At least I wasn't really sick.

Rogar
12-13-24, 8:50pm
The apparent shooter seems to have abandoned his bike near Central Park before catching a taxi. His bike hasn't been recovered and is assumed to have subsequently been stollen. There's a slice of a declining society.