Now I've heard everything!

[gimmethesimplelife]

I just heard that folk hero (?), hater (?) Luigi Mangioni is being charged with terrorism! Stop this country, I'm too sane to live here!

First degree murder I'm down with. This IS what took place. Though I personally consider him a folk hero, the real terrorist here is the United States of America - for allowing health care to be run at profit in the first place, which creates a toxic capitalistic sewer in which tech can be used to directly murder patients via denying claims - something which many Americans including most here seem to be OK with.

At least Trump was reelected. Yes. I DID just post that. I believe his being in office 2.0 will hasten the split up of this country, which is likely on only real hope going forward, for those who can't or won't flee. So there's that. And I'm actually very fortunate - effective immediately anything that isn't immediate life or death I will take care of in Mexico where interestingly enough I have human rights in healthcare. Though.....very easy for me to say given my relatives in Nogales, MX and being only 3 hours away from MX to begin with. I DO understand I hold considerable geographic privilege here.

And yes I digressed big time. What's your take on the Mangioni terrorism charge? Rob

[Tradd]

:doh:

[bae]

What specific crime did the Grand Jury indict him on? What are the legal elements of that crime?

[LDAHL]

Mangione butchered a helpless man for the express purpose of creating fear to effect change. That’s pretty much the definition of terrorism. It’s a symptom of our society’s sickness that so many people lack the moral or logical clarity to see the plain facts for what they are. I pity them.

[Tybee]

I thought it was absolutely the right charge.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Mangione butchered a helpless man for the express purpose of creating fear to effect change. That’s pretty much the definition of terrorism. It’s a symptom of our society’s sickness that so many people lack the moral or logical clarity to see the plain facts for what they are. I pity them.Mangioni DID commit murder, yes. But you are OK with patient deaths caused by tech denying legitimate patient claims cold bloodedly in the name of profit?
This right here is not terrorism? Please make this make sense??? Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Mangione butchered a helpless man for the express purpose of creating fear to effect change. That’s pretty much the definition of terrorism. It’s a symptom of our society’s sickness that so many people lack the moral or logical clarity to see the plain facts for what they are. I pity them.Were health care not inhumanely done at profit and were Hitlerian AI not used to deny.legit claims, resulting in patient murders in the name of corporate profit - there would have been no need for this murder. The United States of America drew first blood and for close to the worst of reasons. The US needs to be held accountable somehow - perhaps via settling with folks like me to resettle elsewhere - but good luck with that, I get that. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I thought it was absolutely the right charge.I'll just agree to disagree. I maintain that the United States is the terrorist here - for logical reasons I've already posted. Though I consider Mangioni a folk hero - I also understand that premeditated murder is a serious crime - up at the level of the crimes committed by United Health Care etal in the first place. I agree in prosecuting LM - but also.health care corps need to.be prosecuted, with CEO's being imprisoned for life in the advent of a single patient death resulting from a denied claim.....and some.kind of settlement for all those like myself who can cold bloodedly see straight through all of this. (It does help that I've had the unorthodox life I've held, I'll grant that).

I have noticed something else. I don't have the time I once did to be active in the neighborhood - but all the neighbors I've spoken to are OK with the murder given AI being used to kill patients for profit....er, deny claims. Several think LM shouldn't be prosecuted - but he DID committ a crime, much as the United States of America has here (non-existent guardrails to protect innocent patient's lives from for profit healthcare).

What will your take be when your legit claim is denied? Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

:doh:I agree. The terrorism charge is utterly insane - especially in the light of patient deaths due to denied claims. Every now and then we DO agree. Rob

[Tradd]

I'll just agree to disagree. I maintain that the United States is the terrorist here - for logical reasons I've already posted. Though I consider Mangioni a folk hero - I also understand that premeditated murder is a serious crime - up at the level of the crimes committed by United Health Care etal in the first place. I agree in prosecuting LM - but also.health care corps need to.be prosecuted, with CEO's being imprisoned for life in the advent of a single patient death resulting from a denied claim.....and some.kind of settlement for all those like myself who can cold bloodedly see straight through all of this. (It does help that I've had the unorthodox life I've held, I'll grant that).

I have noticed something else. I don't have the time I once did to be active in the neighborhood - but all the neighbors I've spoken to are OK with the murder given AI being used to kill patients for profit....er, deny claims. Several think LM shouldn't be prosecuted - but he DID committ a crime, much as the United States of America has here (non-existent guardrails to protect innocent patient's lives from for profit healthcare).

What will your take be when your legit claim is denied? Rob

If you hate the US so much, why are you still here? You’ve never bothered to answer that particular question when multiple members here have asked. Your continual crap is tiresome, yet it’s just lip service because you’re all talk and no action.

[bae]

I have concerns for Rob’s mental health when he goes off on these unhinged jeremiads.

[gimmethesimplelife]

If you hate the US so much, why are you still here? You’ve never bothered to answer that particular question when multiple members here have asked. Your continual crap is tiresome, yet it’s just lip service because you’re all talk and no action.When Mom passes I truly will leave. This AI thing really severed any connection to this society for me. The fact that so many Americans find patient murders acceptable sealed this even further. Mom is 82, I don't know how much longer she will be here though she's in good health overall for her age. But yeah, I am someone better fit elsewhere. And always have been truth be told. Rob

[bae]

When Mom passes I truly will leave. This AI thing really severed any connection to this society for me. The fact that so many Americans find patient murders acceptable sealed this even further. Mom is 82, I don't know how much longer she will be here though she's in good health overall for her age. But yeah, I am someone better fit elsewhere. And always have been truth be told. Rob

You can’t even give us the specifics of “this AI thing”.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I have concerns for Rob’s mental health when he goes off on these unhinged jeremiads.Fair enough. I am concerned for Americans at large given the issues I've brought up here. Perhaps I'm best off keeping my.mouth shut and biding my time until I can leave. I am horribly miscast in a society where so many grieve Brian Thompson but could care less for the patient deaths he is directly responsible for. I deserve better. (As do most of us). Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

You can’t even give us the specifics of “this AI thing”.? Using AI to deny patient claims isn't enough for you in and of itself? Rob

[Tybee]

Fair enough. I am concerned for Americans at large given the issues I've brought up here. Perhaps I'm best off keeping my.mouth shut and biding my time until I can leave. I am horribly miscast in a society where so many grieve Brian Thompson but could care less for the patient deaths he is directly responsible for. I deserve better. (As do most of us). Rob

I feel I deserve to live in a country that respects the rule of law. People who murder other people because they decide they do not like their activities, their ideology, or the computer programs they use are terrorists. I am glad I live in a country that does not promote and reward terrorism.

You are completely without basis to assert that people do not care about patient deaths, about denials of claims. Many of us have lived through these situations you write about, less than optimal medical care, or even medical care that harmed them or their loved ones.

AI is everywhere, Rob, any country you go to. You are naive to think you are going to flee America and be beyond the reach of AI.

[bae]

? Using AI to deny patient claims isn't enough for you in and of itself? Rob

I have asked you several times for specifics on the use of AI in this context, and provided some examples I think of how it could potentially *improve* patient care, but you have been non-responsive. I do not believe you are capable of having a conversation on the topic, you have so self-radicalized.

[Alan]

? Using AI to deny patient claims isn't enough for you in and of itself? Rob
In all your many posts on this subject I've yet to see any understanding on your part on the use of AI in the insurance industry. I've also not seen any explanation of the multiple accusations made about AI "denying legitimate claims resulting in murder".

It would probably help us all to understand your stance a little better if you provided facts, figures and a basic understanding of the subject. Until then, this entire conversation seems to be propaganda in search of an agreement.

I'm also confused again about your desire to receive a settlement from the US to enable you to leave the country. It's not the first time you've brought it up and I've never understood what makes you think you deserve renumeration from any country in order to go away or as a reward for leaving. It doesn't make sense.

[iris lilies]

I thought it was absolutely the right charge.
Hunh. I never would have thought of that. It is an interesting charge.

[iris lilies]

If you hate the US so much, why are you still here? You’ve never bothered to answer that particular question when multiple members here have asked. Your continual crap is tiresome, yet it’s just lip service because you’re all talk and no action.


He is still here, and has even fed well at the trough of public healthcare in the past. The disassociation is hard for me to understand.

[littlebittybobby]

okay----I am not a mental health expert, so I am not qualified to diagnose anyone. I am not an attorney, either, so my opinions are not real "legal advice". But yeah----as I see it, the powers-that-be have evidently decided that due to the important status of the murder victim, that it definately be classified as a Federal offense, and that Federal Penalties apply. Just as happened in the (heinous) Justin Honken case in IWAH and the Lisa Montgomery case in Mo. and the Timmy "Boom-Boom" McVeigh case in Ok. Not just because they classify as such, but because Noo Yawk does not have the Death Penalty, neglecting the fact it would truly be real punishment to serve a life sentence in any penitentiary. But headlines of a Death sentence seem to carry more weight with a good many people. As for setting an example, they may hope it deters "copycat" crimes of this type. I'm surprised that the accused in this case has no actual personal grievance; he apparently was not one of the insured. So, there's that. But yeah----it may be that the accused has some problems with his thought processes/reasoning/or whatever, that caused this. Just as did the theater shooter in Colorado, a dozen years ago, for example. Or Charles Whitman, in Texas. But many others, as well. That would be the only defense his attorney could rely on, to "save" him. That all said, the prosecutor is putting on a good show, as well as insuring that the suspect cannot bond out of jail. Hope that helps you kids some. Thankk mee.

[LDAHL]

The US needs to be held accountable somehow - perhaps via settling with folks like me to resettle elsewhere - but good luck with that, I get that. Rob

What are you talking about when you say “the US”? It seems to be a chimeric beast including many aspects: the police, the airlines, what you understand to be capitalism, both public and private health insurance, the wealthy, artificial intelligence. You seem to think it has wronged you by denying you your due, and must be punished. Hence the vicarious bloodlust and belief that you are owed some form of reparations.

To you, it’s impossible to condemn an act of terror without supporting whatever sins you want to assign to the insurance industry. The two seem inseparable in your mind. It’s not terrorism if it’s directed against the beast. I would put it to you that the world is more complicated than that.

[Rogar]

I think they amped up the charges to make an example of him and discourage others. He had a lot of popular support. Innocent until proven, so some of them may just be for legal leveraging.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I think they amped up the charges to make an example of him and discourage others. He had a lot of popular support. Innocent until proven, so some of them may just be for legal leveraging.Thank You for your civil post, Rogar. Two things come to my mind - 1. A manager at an employee meeting in Michigan was recently stabbed by an employee - I'm thinking the CEO killing egged this on? 2. Americans are starting to grasp more and more that this is a sick society that doesn't work well for many of us. Where this newfound vigilantism (is that a word?) leads us I don't know.

I personally am not worried about being stabbed as I get it and am very respectful to all in the workplace. I also continue to hoard money as I have little faith in the future of the United States - but these recent uprisings do give me hope. I also would like to make it clear that I do not view the Michigan stabbing as being in the same Human Rights Class as the CEO murder. It also gives me hope that so many young people - I've read 40 percent - understand the need for the CEO murder. Intense wealth inequality and lack of opportunity coupled with the chance of being murdered by an insurance company in the name of profit will do that, surprise!

Even more interesting - supposedly 22 percent of Democrats, 16 percent of Independents, and 12 PERCENT OF REPUBLICANS (!!!) find the murder understandable and acceptable, given the givens. Given these numbers, I'd be giving up on any long term goals in this country at a minumum. The people have had enough and it would seem that intense turmoil is not far off. I'm just awestruck, given that I saw straight through this country very young that this has taken so long to arrive.

Am I happy? No. Honestly, no. But relieved. It's high time the consequences of turbo charged capitalism sifted much further upwards. And I very much believe that I will live to see the US split up and that DJT will help us get there. Rob

[bae]

I personally am not worried about being stabbed... I also continue to hoard money ...

ROFL.


It also gives me hope that so many young people - I've read 40 percent - understand the need for the CEO murder.

The "need for the CEO murder"! Astounding.

Better sharpen your saber and get to work then.

“Terror is only justice: prompt, severe and inflexible. It is then an emanation of virtue.” - Maximilien Robespierre



Even more interesting - supposedly 22 percent of Democrats, 16 percent of Independents, and 12 PERCENT OF REPUBLICANS (!!!) find the murder understandable and acceptable, given the givens. Given these numbers,

Those numbers are rookie numbers, Rob. More people in this country believe that astrology is a valid science, and you are within a couple of percent of the portion who believe the Earth is flat(*). I don't think your numbers represent an overwhelming majority.

But, bring it on.

(*) https://carsey.unh.edu/publication/conspiracy-vs-science-survey-us-public-beliefs