Government Coup [Archive] - Page 5 - Simple Living Forums

Rogar

1-9-26, 7:41pm

Well, my AI says the difference in policies is that Obama deportations focused on serious criminals, recent border crossings, and immediate threats to national security and Trump is deporting any unauthorized immigrant regardless of their ties to the US.

One can assume the latter is more likely to cause bigger resistance by breaking up honest families who have been here for decades, even using elementary schools are a place to round up folks. Sending them to bizarre prisons doesn't help.

I was also wondering how that ICE agent was able to concentrate on holding up his cell phone and focusing on recording, while at the same time trying to defuse or understand a situation and possibly use a deadly weapon. Don't they have body cams for that? Is the DOJ filtering out what they release.

iris lilies

1-9-26, 7:45pm

I don't know. Effective leadership that can deescalate instead of antagonize. What do you think.
Well, I won’t argue with that goal.

iris lilies

1-9-26, 7:53pm

You know what they say about those who assume! Minneapolis is not St. Louis. And, no, I am not ok with your assumptions.

ah, tell me then what role Renée was playing in that protest. How did she come to be there. What was her goal in being there. And etc.

Alan

1-9-26, 7:54pm

I was also wondering how that ICE agent was able to concentrate on holding up his cell phone and focusing on recording, while at the same time trying to defuse or understand a situation and possibly use a deadly weapon. Don't they have body cams for that? Is the DOJ filtering out what they release.
I think the cell phone recording is pretty much standard operating procedure to document people and vehicles in a manner that can be quickly and easily retrieved when needed. I don't think the thought of using a deadly weapon came to mind for the officer until the moment that vehicle accelerated towards him.

Rogar

1-9-26, 8:32pm

I think the cell phone recording is pretty much standard operating procedure to document people and vehicles in a manner that can be quickly and easily retrieved when needed. I don't think the thought of using a deadly weapon came to mind for the officer until the moment that vehicle accelerated towards him.

I didn't know that. At least in the news I've not noticed police holding up cell phones, but it must happen. I was also wondering if ICE agents are required to have body cams and if we will ever see that if they had them.

My evening news commentary said that Trump supporters could watch all the videos and say self defense and dems could watch the same videos and say otherwise and that it's the way the mind works. It's not obvious either way to me.

pinkytoe

1-9-26, 9:43pm

Brother was a border patrol officer on the Arizona border for many years. Said ICE used to be a very low key operation - mostly undercover working with various parties to apprehend illegal immigrants. He said he does not recognize or believe that its current behavior is acceptable or normal.

catherine

1-9-26, 10:02pm

frugal-one

1-10-26, 6:56am

Logistically, how do you round up and deport 3,000,000 people in a manner you would find ethical and legal? I'm thinking that ICE and Customs & Border Patrol officers haven't changed their routines much between then and now, other than now making efforts to protect themselves and their families from a politically charged resistance who could find no reason to pay attention earlier.

That’s what you get for thinking. Do you remember SEEING masked, plain-clothed goons stuffing random people in unmarked vehicles during the Obama administration? Of course not! We are seeing this now daily. The massive amounts of ICE are trained for border patrol… not as police. It is obvious they are not trained for what they have been thrown into and it shows. I’ll take Obama immigration any day over the current regime’s ballastic approach. Rogar’s post above more eloquently explained it!

frugal-one

1-10-26, 7:01am

I think it definitely depends on who's in charge. Politically, sometimes following the law is ok, sometimes it's not. I think it depends upon whether or not you think the person in charge is a light-bringer or Hitler incarnate. Perspective is everything.

Perspective is not everything! The results of leadership’s actions tell all. Obama’s administration deported massive amounts of people and did not have protesters in the streets unlike the current regime where supposed ICE agents are killing people in the streets.

frugal-one

1-10-26, 7:02am

ah, tell me then what role Renée was playing in that protest. How did she come to be there. What was her goal in being there. And etc.

You are a big girl and should be able to figure it out. If I lived anywhere near that area I also would be out protesting the gestapo infiltrating and rounding up my neighbors! This tactic is reminiscent of Hitler Germany hunting for Jews! Wasn’t trump’s claim to just target the worst of the worst? Now, randomly people are being picked up. The worst of the worst… my ass.

frugal-one

1-10-26, 7:19am

So, I surprised myself by actually considering that if anything happened to Donald Trump we might actually be in a WORSE way with J.D.Vance. He is young and inexperienced and Steven Miller and others would make him their puppet.

And, trump is experienced and not a puppet? trump is even shown sleeping at meetings! Why is he not called “sleepy d”?

Rogar

1-10-26, 10:26am

So, I surprised myself by actually considering that if anything happened to Donald Trump we might actually be in a WORSE way with J.D.Vance. He is young and inexperienced and Steven Miller and others would make him their puppet.

regardless of the outcome, I'd still like to see Trump eating a lot more saturated fatty red meats, bacon, and cheeses as per the new food pyramid. J.D. always comes across as a very nasty person and it's no wonder the pope died the day after his visit, but I don't think he could carry the clout that Trump has to intimidate and control. How a whacko like Miller wormed his way into political leadership is beyond me.

Rogar

1-10-26, 10:44am

There could be a ruling in the tariff case Friday. Waiting with bated breath.

I've not seen anything in the news. I was anticipated a Trump set back, which is always nice.

Tradd

1-10-26, 11:52am

I've not seen anything in the news. I was anticipated a Trump set back, which is always nice.

Didn't happen yesterday.

Alan

1-10-26, 1:47pm

Perspective is not everything!
Sure it is. I'm currently sitting in the basin of the second largest canyon in the country, being visited by cute little roadrunners and enjoying life without a care in the world. If you're in the area, stop by and I'll show you how the principle works.
https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/611151829_10233981566386870_6688185290218513951_n. jpg?stp=dst-jpegr_tt6&_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=pxQOzexCu2gQ7kNvwHS1jP_&_nc_oc=Adlue7dZWJql_OW57oKeHV_36OHu9uX42fJ45w_ZwRo oHIVkR0xMenW-ZeApbEj6hpviahlCzdxKI3lf49SLPiK-&_nc_zt=23&se=-1&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&_nc_gid=P_6ju7wGjTnH6D57uRT2HA&oh=00_Afr_9h0armAK-L4o2XF4-dfKzGFzMiqXNT1CVkKqp9OA8w&oe=69687E56

https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/611378309_10231389009403747_1797841713719009187_n. jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_tt6&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=Rtdq6EOBApYQ7kNvwFVTH2e&_nc_oc=AdlUJl0fvXpJ3Nq3TSVjXV53QHPc9yU5h9a7lfrhhxD CGaDmK-a9ICfHZ41ll2UeeCnGTOEGiiXg9UK11Pmsme2C&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&_nc_gid=XtpAuV72exr-xFk7JF9bTA&oh=00_AfpXFuGPX_V2hwsltnop5LLL9YYk3giT-prdKcOC_LBmNg&oe=69686FE1

frugal-one

1-10-26, 3:08pm

A picture DH took of a roadrunner here is the screensaver on our computer. However, the perspective you have unfortunately is momentary. Enjoy it!

iris lilies

1-10-26, 4:56pm

This is news to me--where are you getting this information?

I took some time to answer this question; I needed to review sources I’ve been consuming since it all can glom together in my mind

Currently I think

René Good was sympathetic to the goals of organizations that exist to disrupt ICE. She and wife followed at least one social media account of a Minneapolis ICE monitoring group. (Inside Edition report) Her wife Rebecca said in an interview released yesterday ( multiple sources) that they “stopped to support neighbors” in the ICE protest.
Renée Goode parked her maroon colored SUV at an angle to somehow participate in an ICE disruption exercise. The car was not parked on the side of the street. The car was stopped in a place that disrupted traffic. (Videos)
ICE agents gave her a lawful order to get out of her car. She chose not to do that. ( videos)
There MAY have been conflicting orders from ICE where someone indicated she should move her car ( videos)
Renee drove her car forward where an ice agent stood and the car hit him; ( Officer Ross’ phone video) she MAY not have intended to hit him ( conjecture)
ICE agent Ross used regrettable and unnecessary force in this situation to shoot her (conjecture)
ICE agent Ross viewed Renee Good’s vehicle as a deadly weapon ( conjecture)
Renee Good’s car hit ICE agent Ross (Ross video)
ICE agent Ross acted lawfully if regrettably and did not use the highest and best option he was trained for which would’ve been to not shoot the driver of this car ( conjecture)

There is a whole lot else that is rumor and conjecture, and some of that is that she was an active member of one of these ICE disruptor groups. But I wasn’t able to confirm that in any of the sources that I looked at carefully today. More may be revealed later.

I really wanted to know what the ICE protestors were “supposed” to do, that is if they’ve been trained, when they encounter a lawful order from ICE agents. It is clear that Rebecca and her wife blew off ICE commands and Rebecca Good even taunted agents.

I see that in a lot of law-enforcement videos of sovereign citizens in traffic stops. These folks don’t think they need to pay attention to law-enforcement. They find out otherwise

frugal-one

1-10-26, 6:02pm

In any videos I saw the ICE agent was not struck! I hope the word continues to go out to avoid ICE. They obviously are not trained to handle situations and cause more chaos than is necessary!

Rogar

1-10-26, 6:11pm

Renee drove her car forward where an ice agent stood and the car hit him; ( Officer Ross’ phone video) she MAY not have intended to hit him ( conjecture)

I reasonable summation. I just assume her training or group participation included some encouragement toward non-violence (?) as opposed to a radical domestic terrorist who weaponized her car. Peaceful disobedience.

I was wondering. I've watched he famous officer video a couple of times. I've not seen any part of the car striking and any part of the officer. It just goes blurry and some unidentified noises and anything else seems to be by inference. Was that his cell phone that was hit or dropped when he wen for his gun. I must be missing something, as they are portraying that as damning evidence of self-protection. All I got was that his cell may have hit the car and I'm not sure about that.

I'd think proper investigation would ask where his cell phone was during all of this? Was it always in his hand? Was he holding it when he fired. Or was it attached to his uniform somewhere? We may never know.

iris lilies

1-10-26, 6:33pm

I reasonable summation. I just assume her training or group participation included some encouragement toward non-violence (?) as opposed to a radical domestic terrorist who weaponized her car. Peaceful disobedience.

I was wondering. I've watched he famous officer video a couple of times. I've not seen any part of the car striking and any part of the officer. It just goes blurry and some unidentified noises and anything else seems to be by inference. Was that his cell phone that was hit or dropped when he wen for his gun. I must be missing something, as they are portraying that as damning evidence of self-protection.

I'd think proper investigation would ask where his cell phone was during all of this? Was it always in his hand? Was he holding it when he fired. We may never know.
This is all true. I think it’s reasonable to assume from the chaos of John Ross’s phone video that he was hit by Renee’s car. However, as you point out, that is “assumption.”

there is another video in the sea of videos that show he was hit, clipped, brushed,touched, kissed (whatever word you want to use) by her car.

I also think that questioning the John Ross video is a degree of skepticism not shown to anything from the other political side, but still, bottom line, I see you may be right. I don’t think so, though;)

Rogar

1-10-26, 6:39pm

This is all true. I think it’s reasonable to assume from the chaos of John Ross’s phone video that he was hit by Renee’s car. However, as you point out, that is “assumption.”

there is another video in the sea of videos that show he was hit, clipped, brushed,touched, kissed (whatever word you want to use) by her car.

I also think that questioning the John Ross video is a degree of skepticism not shown to anything from the other political side, but still, bottom line, I see you may be right. I don’t think so, though;)

I could go 50/50 on that. I'm sure the FBI investigation would analyze the car for fabric fiber left from impact or even some sort of paint residue on his clothing. And do a thorough review of the video. Maybe a reenactment of what a reasonable person would do with a cell phone in one hand while shooting someone. Was the video cropped, magnified or otherwise altered to make the car seem cloer that it was? Ha.

I'm unaware other other videos actually showing contact between the car and the officer.

The bottom line is more like whether the officer felt his life was in danger, regardless. Or if it was a reckless, hate, or negligent act (i.e., the end of the video, "F...ing B...ch). But the news sure seemed to hve jumped on the one video to make unquestioned conclusions.

iris lilies

1-11-26, 12:30am

I could go 50/50 on that. I'm sure the FBI investigation would analyze the car for fabric fiber left from impact or even some sort of paint residue on his clothing. And do a thorough review of the video. Maybe a reenactment of what a reasonable person would do with a cell phone in one hand while shooting someone. Was the video cropped, magnified or otherwise altered to make the car seem cloer that it was? Ha.

I'm unaware other other videos actually showing contact between the car and the officer.

The bottom line is more like whether the officer felt his life was in danger, regardless. Or if it was a reckless, hate, or negligent act (i.e., the end of the video, "F...ing B...ch). But the news sure seemed to hve jumped on the one video to make unquestioned conclusions.

this is so interesting and it’s such a good illustration as to why a video alone in a court of law is not uncontroversial evidence. It just doesn’t suffice because people see it and make their own interpretation.

what difference would it make to you if there was forensic evidence that the automobile did hit the officer? I don’t mean this in a snarky way, I want to know how that changes your opinion on anything or does it?

Rogar

1-11-26, 7:37am

The point is not so much the specific evidence, but conducing a thorough investigation of all the evidence. In a court of law, would the video be used as evidence and how would that differ from material evidence in relevance. Like I said, I think the bottom line is how the officer may have felt his life in danger. or if he acted negligently, out of anger, or recklessly. The proximity of the car to his body or striking such may or may not indicate that. At least that seems to be the public opinions and news interpretations of the intense scrutiny of the various videos.

I think that many have jumped to potentially false conclusion based on the video that may not be correct and people should know. Since this probably won't go to any sort of legal trail or unbiased legal review, none of the evidence matters, really. And in light of the veracity of the current administration and the limited access to the investigation, I could expect evidence could be altered anyway. I already have some suspicion that the video could have been altered to favor opinions.

rosarugosa

1-11-26, 7:56am

regardless of the outcome, I'd still like to see Trump eating a lot more saturated fatty red meats, bacon, and cheeses as per the new food pyramid. J.D. always comes across as a very nasty person and it's no wonder the pope died the day after his visit, but I don't think he could carry the clout that Trump has to intimidate and control. How a whacko like Miller wormed his way into political leadership is beyond me.

I wish we could treat him to several "Almighty Cheesus Burgers" including the bacon and egg add-on. (Menu courtesy of the Great Lost Bear in Portland, ME).

6695

Rogar

1-11-26, 9:30am

Ha. I think he might like the bacon cheddar burger with double fries and a large pepsi.

iris lilies

1-11-26, 11:11am

Ha. I think he might like the bacon cheddar burger with double fries and a large pepsi.
Fries must be cooked in lard, there is no other way to get that rich crispyness.

frugal-one

1-14-26, 9:52pm

Asshole trump is insisting the US take Greenland by force, if needed. he is talking of force in Iran and sending masked thugs to round up people in Minneapolis… to name just a few of the ludicrous atrocities he’s committing. The only positive is that the courts are daily negating his unlawful attempts to make life even worse for the masses.

Alan

1-14-26, 11:23pm

Asshole trump is insisting the US take Greenland by force, if needed. he is talking of force in Iran and sending masked thugs to round up people in Minneapolis… to name just a few of the ludicrous atrocities he’s committing.
You know we could have an awful lot of interesting discussion regarding those three claims. Are you up for it?

frugal-one

1-15-26, 6:52am

You know we could have an awful lot of interesting discussion regarding those three claims. Are you up for it?

No. There is NO justification!

It is interesting to note though a few republicans are finally speaking out against the regime and IL’s many timed mentioned podcaster, Joe Rogan, referring to ICE as the gestapo. There is hope yet!

Rogar

1-15-26, 7:47am

I wonder since so many of the Federal Prosecutors resigned rather than take up investigations into the mother of three and her partner if they will find some sell out legal hacks like has been done in the past, or if they will just drop it. Or maybe there are some prosecutors left?

It seems like things seem to drag out in the courts forever, but there appears to be several Tump rebukes in the works. Keely sue Hegseth, the Clintons refuse the Congressional subpoena (theiur letter was interesting), the Supreme Court ruling on tariffs, the Hegseth investigation into shooting the boat survivors, and the demands for the Epstein files release. The DOJ continues to find some smoke screen to delay the release of all relevant Epstein files, which make things appear even more suspicious. And I'm not so sure Venezuela/Greenland talk and others are a distraction to divert the public eyes from the case and other legalities and transgressions. I've read thea the suit of the Minneapolis Mayor against the Trum p administration is hopeless. It will probably take a few more GOPers to flip before things like the impeachment of Noem stick. The Jack Smith testimony was conveniently released around New Year's day celebrations. I wonder if it's the end of that or if more is coming.

Here in Colorado, they opened up bidding for 20,000 acres of BLM land for oil and gas leases and no one bid. I sort of doubt big oil wants to invest capitol in new operations here and maybe abroad in low quality or hard to get at oil when the next administration could get back on the EV/green energy bandwagon and when gas prices are so low. There have been reversals of Trumps block on wind energy. I've lost track of the lawsuit to keep the big NOAA weather monitoring facility open.

And Tina Peters is still in prison.

iris lilies

1-16-26, 2:33pm

No. There is NO justification!

It is interesting to note though a few republicans are finally speaking out against the regime and IL’s many timed mentioned podcaster, Joe Rogan, referring to ICE as the gestapo. There is hope yet!

Rogan is a creature of the Right only in the minds of the Twitter universe.

Tybee

1-18-26, 8:40am

Tradd

1-18-26, 9:19am

Wired just had an article on this. Hope you can read it.

https://www.wired.com/story/what-to-do-if-ice-invades-your-neighborhood/

catherine

1-18-26, 9:45am

It's crazy. We have good friends up here in Vermont who have two twins they adopted from Nigeria when they were babies. They're in their early teens now. Their lawyer told my friends not to leave the country with their children because they may not be permitted back. This family is as white American bread as you can get, but their legally adopted children are Black.

On another "close to home" moment, I picked up BIL from the hospital, where he was recovering from a congestive heart failure exacerbation, and the nurse started telling him about a housing program he might be eligible for, but then she stopped herself--oh, well, maybe not these days. So I asked her, "are you seeing the impact of the new policies related to social services up here in Vermont?" And she said. "Yes. Just today. It was heartbreaking" (I guess she had a patient who will be much worse off now that they are suddenly ineligible for a benefit that would have helped them.)

Politically speaking (and personally speaking too), this year feels like it has lasted forever. And musing that we have 3 more years of this mayhem is really depressing. I'm hopeful the midterms will stem the tide a little.

frugal-one

1-18-26, 9:46am

We have been told by government officials that ICE is coming this week to my children's neighborhood. Any ideas about how to keep the grandchildren safe on their way to school--they either walk or are dropped off if it is too cold to walk.

I ‘m sorry to hear this. I feel your anguish! My GD is in Minneapolis … 4 blocks from the Renee Good murder.

Tybee

1-18-26, 9:53am

Thank you. That's a really good article, Tradd, will pass it on to my son. Thank you all for your emotional support, I really need it now.

iris lilies

1-18-26, 10:00am

Wired just had an article on this. Hope you can read it.

https://www.wired.com/story/what-to-do-if-ice-invades-your-neighborhood/

concluding paragraph:

“The goal is to be an observer and to document what is happening,” says Nathan-Pineau of the Immigrant Legal Resource Center. “The goal is not to go and try to intervene in the law enforcement action.”

Concerned, observant, involved citizenry = a good thing

Obstructive, belligerent, vigilante citizenry = not a good thing

Tybee

1-18-26, 10:14am

I find myself thinking, well that grandchild is safer because she has blue eyes. I can't believe it has come to this so quickly. God help us all.

Tradd

1-18-26, 10:20am

I find myself thinking, well that grandchild is safer because she has blue eyes. I can't believe it has come to this so quickly. God help us all.

Is she white or brown?

The scum in charge of DHS had said they’re going to start making people prove their citizenship. I have a passport and Apple recently allowed you to add passport to Apple Wallet to use at TSA checkpoints in case you don’t have a RealID passport. I don’t fly much, but I added passport just in case of the ICE crap even though I’m lily white. ICE is still all over the Chicago area.

Tybee

1-18-26, 10:24am

The local one is white. I have another in another state who is brown.
I don't know how to do the apple wallet passport thing.

Tradd

1-18-26, 10:26am

The local one is white. I have another in another state who is brown.
I don't know how to do the apple wallet passport thing.

Here you go.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/123719

catherine

1-18-26, 10:27am

concluding paragraph:

“The goal is to be an observer and to document what is happening,” says Nathan-Pineau of the Immigrant Legal Resource Center. “The goal is not to go and try to intervene in the law enforcement action.”

Obstructive, belligerent, vigilante citizenry = not a good thing

Obstructive can be a good thing. There are very good models for peaceful protest, and I think they are necessary, because people in power do not willingly give up that power.

Examples of exemplary peaceful protesting:

The 500 disabled people who crawled backwards up the steps of the Capitol to demand passage of the ADA.

Gandhi's salt march

The grape boycott

And of course, MLK wrote the book on how to protest peacefully and effectively. Unfortunately his peaceful protesters often encountered not-so-peaceful counterresistance.

I am all for obstruction in the right way in the right circumstances. I support all the peaceful protesters in Minnesota and elsewhere. We cannot tolerate the violent and indiscriminate capture of innocent civilians.

Tradd

1-18-26, 10:33am

Tybee, maybe for the brown grandkid, the parents can take a photo of kid’s birth certificate and keep it on their phone.

Tybee

1-18-26, 10:38am

Here you go.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/123719

Thank you.

Tybee

1-18-26, 10:40am

Tybee, maybe for the brown grandkid, the parents can take a photo of kid’s birth certificate and keep it on their phone.

Thank you.

frugal-one

1-18-26, 4:36pm

frugal-one

1-18-26, 4:38pm

I find myself thinking, well that grandchild is safer because she has blue eyes. I can't believe it has come to this so quickly. God help us all.

It still is traumatic because children are observant and see what is happening to others! It may not be directly happening to them but those around them! It truly is sickening!

frugal-one

1-19-26, 10:22am

Did you see the MAGA hats the protesters in Greenland are touting? MAGA …. Make America Go Away!

Because of trump we truly are becoming the “ugly Americans”. It is going to be hard to travel internationally because of this dictator wannabe!

Rogar

1-19-26, 11:22am

News I saw in a couple of places today said Trump's push for Greenland is some twisted version of his revenge tour for being snubbed by the Nobel prize committee. I didn't delve into the details. And Miller's comment about a nation that can't defend it's border doesn't deserve to be a sovereign nation???? That has some global implications, although he was probably just saying things.

Alan

1-19-26, 11:49am

News I saw in a couple of places today said Trump's push for Greenland is some twisted version of his revenge tour for being snubbed by the Nobel prize committee.
I don't think that was actual 'News', but rather a celebration of bluster.

I first became aware of Greenland's importance to the US back in the early 70's when people in my military career field were routinely being sent to Thule Greenland on 89 day temporary duty assignments (TDY). Luckily we've had agreements with Greenland in place for quite some time to act as host to a US military presence to act as early warning and first line of defense against bad actors in greater Europe and Asia. Other 'News' sources might tell you that some of those bad actors have designs on Greenland as well in order to neutralize the US advantage which has caused every administration in recent history to consider ways to strengthen the US presence there. I guess which version of 'News' you prefer is up to you.

kib

1-19-26, 11:57am

I'd like to back it up a little and ask, "Why are immigration officials masked and armed, and running around like SWAT teams in a particularly exciting adventure movie in the first place."

IMO, the long running narrative that if someone is "illegal" they are also an armed and dangerous desperado intent on murder and mayhem is media fueled absurdity, supported by a history of media Entertainment framing violence and espionage as environmental norms. Do those people exist? I suppose. Are they actually A Big Problem, in an ordinary sense, for ordinary people? My eyes tell me no. My experience tells me no. My relationships with real people tell me no. Most of this Threat has been manufactured and framed as a Big Problem to foment exactly the sort of division and rage and justification for "retaliatory" violence we're now seeing.

nswef

1-19-26, 12:05pm

early morning

1-19-26, 12:17pm

I don't think that was actual 'News', but rather a celebration of bluster.

I first became aware of Greenland's importance to the US back in the early 70's when people in my military career field were routinely being sent to Thule Greenland on 89 day temporary duty assignments (TDY). Luckily we've had agreements with Greenland in place for quite some time to act as host to a US military presence to act as early warning and first line of defense against bad actors in greater Europe and Asia. Other 'News' sources might tell you that some of those bad actors have designs on Greenland as well in order to neutralize the US advantage which has caused every administration in recent history to consider ways to strengthen the US presence there. I guess which version of 'News' you prefer is up to you.

This is really confusing. So - Trump saying he's peeved about Greenland in part because of not winning the Nobel Peace Prize isn't news, but "bluster"? So now his insane ravings are no longer "news"? Even when they directly relate to national security and potential military action? (They should be called out constantly! Words have meaning, and bluster has/SHOULD have social and political consequences. We should not become so used to this idiocy that we just normalize it.)I've not seen any "news" that says Greenland isn't important to Western defense. Is that really an argument somewhere? Of COURSE it's critical. I've not read anything that says Greenland was pushing to end any agreements we had with them - I'm sure they understand that WE are also critical to THEIR survival. That's why Denmark, and thus Greenland, joined NATO, isn't it? So we'd agree to back off the island after WWII, while still using it for our defense? We obviously don't want Russia or China to take it over. But, how does that justify US taking over? Sure, we can get more people/materials at Thule - and we've been doing that already, from what I'm reading. And maybe we want a larger base, or better weapons - that's a cause for a new treaty, not a bloody takeover! And surely, both the reports on the bluster, and reports on the actual concerns re: Greenland and defense, are news in the sense that people need to know, and understand, them.

early morning

1-19-26, 12:19pm

kib, nswef - +1 !!

kib

1-19-26, 12:23pm

Kib, I think this has been coming for a long time. Project 2025, Heritage Foundation, KuKluxKlan...all part of it and now we have the AI and tech groups along with other big business. Scary as if The Deranged One goes away the problem will not. Yes. The infiltration of divisive perspectives into more or less every aspect of digital interaction, making everyone a target for propaganda on one side or the other and seemingly a player in this nightmare, is particularly worrisome.

iris lilies

1-19-26, 1:23pm

Yes. The infiltration of divisive perspectives into more or less every aspect of digital interaction, making everyone a target for propaganda on one side or the other and seemingly a player in this nightmare, is particularly worrisome.yes the Russian and Chinese bots operating on our psyches are awful, and now add in our leaders who are falling into that same trap and egging their followers on.

And like all instigators, they are all old men at the top who will sit comfortably behind their desks while their minions are harmed by the chaos and possible violent mayhem.

Tradd

1-19-26, 2:04pm

Read this from EFF about the surveillance shopping spree ICE is going on.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/01/ice-going-surveillance-shopping-spree

Rogar

1-19-26, 2:33pm

I don't think that was actual 'News', but rather a celebration of bluster.

I first became aware of Greenland's importance to the US back in the early 70's when people in my military career field were routinely being sent to Thule Greenland on 89 day temporary duty assignments (TDY). Luckily we've had agreements with Greenland in place for quite some time to act as host to a US military presence to act as early warning and first line of defense against bad actors in greater Europe and Asia. Other 'News' sources might tell you that some of those bad actors have designs on Greenland as well in order to neutralize the US advantage which has caused every administration in recent history to consider ways to strengthen the US presence there. I guess which version of 'News' you prefer is up to you.

Perhaps it was read out of context by the news or the exact quote was mis-interpreted. I suspect his motives are far deeper, anyway, and he was just whining. Since Greenland appears to have offered the U.S. every military intervention possible short of total ownership and control, I pretty much don't get it. However, I'd lean to the control of Greenlands minerals much like it is Venezuelan oil. Or delusions of global domination. I think one of Trumps cabinet said it was creating a crisis to prevent a crisis? I'm surprised he didn't go after Cuba net to reward Marco for being a good servant. But that may be next, although they lack natural resources to pillage.

In a text message to Norway’s leader on Sunday, President Trump said that one reason behind his push to acquire Greenland is that he didn’t win the Nobel Peace Prize. In his message, which was released by the Norwegian prime minister’s office, Mr. Trump also questioned Denmark’s centuries-old claim to the island and repeated his demand for “Complete and Total Control” of it.

kib

1-19-26, 4:16pm

yes the Russian and Chinese bots operating on our psyches are awful, and now add in our leaders who are falling into that same trap and egging their followers on.

And like all instigators, they are all old men at the top who will sit comfortably behind their desks while their minions are harmed by the chaos and possible violent mayhem. Yup.

At this point I'm not really sure who or what is driving and shaping these narratives. How much is a matter of a manipulated perspective on events that matter, how much of it is spun out of nowhere? Days when I think the world truly is falling apart, days when I think 95% of this is just spat out to intentionally upset and confuse and distract. How foolish would I be to believe it? On the other hand, how vulnerable would I make myself to disregard it? I feel like I'm living in The Matrix.

Tybee

1-19-26, 5:06pm

The problem is real things are happening to real people, right now. You see the evidence with your own eyes.

kib

1-19-26, 6:24pm

The problem is real things are happening to real people, right now. You see the evidence with your own eyes.
Not to be contentious, but that's the whole point. I CAN'T. I can see terrible media images that fill me with compassion, outrage, fear, disgust. I can go out my door and see people protesting or participate in that, and see a police presence that's disturbing, with my own eyes. But for nearly all of us, nearly all the time, what we're being fed is digital information, and in this brave new world, there's very little way to vet these reports and images. I'm not saying they're not happening. I'm not much for sticking my head in the sand. I'm saying AI is making it impossible to trust what I'm being fed. I look at the discussion of Renee Good *right here*, and see people arguing over what "their own eyes" are telling them. I've seen impressive protest photos that on very close inspection Are Not Real. While I'm not a denier, I also don't want to jump at dog whistles from my own side of the aisle.

Tybee

1-19-26, 11:12pm

Not to be contentious, but that's the whole point. I CAN'T. I can see terrible media images that fill me with compassion, outrage, fear, disgust. I can go out my door and see people protesting or participate in that, and see a police presence that's disturbing, with my own eyes. But for nearly all of us, nearly all the time, what we're being fed is digital information, and in this brave new world, there's very little way to vet these reports and images. I'm not saying they're not happening. I'm not much for sticking my head in the sand. I'm saying AI is making it impossible to trust what I'm being fed. I look at the discussion of Renee Good *right here*, and see people arguing over what "their own eyes" are telling them. I've seen impressive protest photos that on very close inspection Are Not Real. While I'm not a denier, I also don't want to jump at dog whistles from my own side of the aisle.

Beware lest your skepticism turn into solipsism.

frugal-one

1-19-26, 11:40pm

I am very disheartened. Just came home after talking to Canadian friends who just put their place up for sale. I can’t say I blame them. trump talking about taking Greenland by force, disengaging with our allies, and whack job talk of making Canada a US state. Canada stating they will attack the US if force is used in Greenland is justifiable because they are defending their NATO ally. These people would be unable to sell their place later or may even be considered a political prisoner. How did we get to this place where our friends and neighbors are fearful of our government? Many are being rounded up by masked unidentifiable thugs like animals under the guise of being for the good of all…reminiscent of Hitler’s gestapo rounding up the jews. This country, under this “leadership” makes me ashamed to be an American. The sad thing is I don’t know what I can do about it except protest in the streets!

Tybee

1-20-26, 12:04am

The school where my grandchildren go is going to talk to the children about ICE this week. They have been sending notifications to the parents. They said they will go to remote classes at home if things start to happen in the area. They have had that system in place because they had to use in during Covid.

Tradd

1-20-26, 12:23am

bae

1-20-26, 12:39am

So, with my own lying eyes, I've seen the Íslendingabók, written by Ari Thorgilsson, in the early 12th Century. You can see it with your own lying eyes at the Árni Magnússon Institute for Icelandic Studies in Reykjavík if your are so motivated. I can recommend some good coffee places nearby if you wish.

6. Frá Grænlands byggð.
Land þat, er kallat er Grænland, fannst ok byggðist af Íslandi.

Eiríkr inn rauði hét maðr breiðfirzkr, er fór út heðan þangat ok nam þar land, er síðan er kallaðr Eiríksfjörðr. Hann gaf nafn landinu ok kallaði Grænland ok kvað menn þat mundu fýsa þangat farar, at landit ætti nafn gott. Þeir fundu þar manna vistir bæði austr ok vestr á landi ok keiplabrot ok steinsmíði þat, er af því má skilja, at þar hafði þess konar þjóð farit, er Vínland hefir byggt ok Grænlendingar kalla Skrælingja. En þat var, er hann tók byggva landit, fjórtán vetrum eða fimmtán fyrr en kristni kæmi hér á Ísland, at því er sá talði fyr Þorkeli Gellissyni á Grænlandi, er sjálfr fylgði Eiríki inum rauða út.

-----

Chapter 6 — On the Settlement of Greenland
The land which is called Greenland was discovered and settled from Iceland.

There was a man named Erik the Red, from Breiðafjörður, who travelled from here to that land and claimed territory there which was later called Erik’s Fjord. He gave the land a name and called it Greenland, saying that people would be more eager to travel there if the land had a good name.

They found there traces of human habitation both to the east and to the west of the land, as well as fragments of skin boats and worked stone, from which one could tell that people of that kind had travelled there—the same people who settled Vinland and whom the Greenlanders call Skrælings.

And when he began to settle the land, it was fourteen or fifteen winters before Christianity came to Iceland, according to what he himself told Þorkell Gellisson, who followed Erik the Red out to Greenland.

Rogar

1-20-26, 8:06am

DJT's version:

Denmark cannot protect that land from Russia or China, and why do they have a ‘right of ownership’ anyway? There are no written documents, it’s only that a boat landed there hundreds of years ago, but we had boats landing there, also.

kib

1-20-26, 8:15am

Tradd

1-20-26, 8:30am

Peace, peace. I'm not saying any of this isn't happening. I spend as much time spun up and in panic and outrage as anyone else. I just finished writing a parody of Alice's restaurant, called You can kill anyone you want in Donald T's restaurant. All I'm saying is it AI is making it very difficult to sort the passion from the propaganda, and that applies to the left as well as the right.

For those of us living in the Chicago area (me) and Minneapolis, our LOCAL news is full of this. I have no reason to believe that WGN tv/radio Chicago is making stuff up. Not everyone stays glued to social media

Alan

1-20-26, 10:22am

So all the people on my local Chicago area and Illinois sub Reddits are making up the videos that they’re posting?
What videos are being posted?

iris lilies

1-20-26, 10:32am

What videos are being posted?
One of the “ Disrupt ICE” strategies I saw mentioned as strategy was protesters who play copyrighted music during their protest.

That way any counter protesters who want to post THEIR Side of the protest will have their video swiftly taken down from the social media sites due to copyright.

I have to say, it’s clever. But that strategy can be easily copied by the other side.

Tybee

1-20-26, 10:50am

Extreme cold present at my kids' grocery store now; they just took a child's parent away as parent was dropping child off at school.

frugal-one

1-20-26, 11:45am

What videos are being posted?

If you are interested, look them up.

Tradd

1-20-26, 12:09pm

What videos are being posted?

Videos from observers of ICE activity. I see the same type of stuff filmed by local TV stations. So it’s not like someone is making this shit up.

Alan

1-20-26, 12:21pm

If you are interested, look them up.
LOL, we could spend the rest of our lives implying un-named things we saw in videos we don't share and never get any closer to understanding what's real and what's not.

What interests me in cases like this is what is actually happening, who is participating and in what manner. Are confrontations happening only in sanctuary cities/states or across the board? Are protestors being peaceful or are they trying to prevent officers from doing their duty? Are random citizens being shoved into vans and "disappeared" or are people violating federal law being arrested? Are they targeting everyone of a certain perceived race or nationality or are they simply targeting those known to have removal orders wherever they can be found.

I'm having a difficult time finding context in anything found online or in discussions regarding what others have seen, plus I've discovered that trying to inject context just seems to piss people off so I'd love to see someone brave enough to voluntarily supply it outside of an agenda or preferred narrative.

Tybee

1-20-26, 12:33pm

congregating at convenience store next to my mom's old nursing home, 1 block from Catholic high school

iris lilies

1-20-26, 1:08pm

LOL, we could spend the rest of our lives implying un-named things we saw in videos we don't share and never get any closer to understanding what's real and what's not.

What interests me in cases like this is what is actually happening, who is participating and in what manner. Are confrontations happening only in sanctuary cities/states or across the board? Are protestors being peaceful or are they trying to prevent officers from doing their duty? Are random citizens being shoved into vans and "disappeared" or are people violating federal law being arrested? Are they targeting everyone of a certain perceived race or nationality or are they simply targeting those known to have removal orders wherever they can be found.

I'm having a difficult time finding context in anything found online or in discussions regarding what others have seen, plus I've discovered that trying to inject context just seems to piss people off so I'd love to see someone brave enough to voluntarily supply it outside of an agenda or preferred narrative.

Not me buddy! I aint stickin’ my neck out for that!

Megan McArdle’s article in the Wash Post from Jan. 10, 2026 is one of several article articles I’ve been reading about Both Sides-ism. I like it, but it’s too much trouble to figure out how to link it. No one will read it anyway.

There are some good, nuanced discussions on my new, secret, probably-not-long-for-this-world Reddit sub About the various ways to look at Minneapolis strife. It’s a discussion format, not a format such as Substack which is someone’s opinion article and then comments following after that. With a forum you can have back-and-forth dialogue where each poster is equal.

Reddit is relentlessly lefty and don’t you forget it! They won’t let you! I got a chiding message from the Reddit overlords on another sub the other day for something I wrote that they considered hate speech. sigh.

if we can find social media discussion sites that support good faith, nuanced discussion, that’s the real deal.

nswef

1-20-26, 1:32pm

iris lilies

1-20-26, 1:43pm

I just wonder if all those being rounded up are truly on a list to be taken? It certainly looks as if quotas and masks are not the sign of researched targeting. Ice agents appear to be grabbing up people, showing no just cause, no warrants, no paperwork signed by a judge that determines they need taken up. I am also concerned as to what is happening once they are in custody. The anger shown in every video, the language, lead me to believe those taken are not treated as they should be.

This concerns me as well. Sure, ICE quotas may be in place and if a measurable number of US citizens and immigrants here legally are pulled into that group, and they are not processed and released quickly, that is a problem of major proportion.

bae

1-20-26, 2:32pm

My partner teaches in a public elementary school on the mainland, in the Skagit Valley. It is a very cool dual-language school - the children receive half their instruction during the day in Spanish, half the day in English. Teachers teach as pairs - one doing the Spanish, one doing English, covering two classrooms. The children swap classrooms during the middle of the day. My partner teaches the Spanish half of the paired classroom, mostly covering science and math and some literacy skills.

Families have to choose to send their children to this program, which starts at kindergarten. The demographics of the families are all over the map, economically, and ethnically.

The Skagit Valley is ~20% Hispanic, 3% Asian, 3% First Nations, 1% African-American. Significant Hispanic population began settling here in the 1920s, expanding in the 1940s, and most of the Hispanic population has been here for ages, and are citizens.

Nonetheless, my partner's elementary school is feeling ICE presence, and it is disrupting the educational process. Families are afraid to show up for parent-teacher conferences. Parents doing drop-off/pick-up are being forced to interact with ICE, and this seems to be causing lower attendance from the "people who have brown skin" community. My partner was accosted once in the parking lot for simply speaking Spanish with a co-worker, though my partner is a US citizen, and her family came here from Wales in the 1700s, and she appears about as white as you can get, though is often mistaken for being from Argentina, probably due to her accent. ICE showed up at the high-school graduation event to stake out the event/parking lot, which was sort of hilarious as they showed up at the wrong address.

In my own life, I'm getting stopped *much* more frequently when traveling from island to island in small boats. Our local volunteer water taxi service that springs into action when the state ferry service is disrupted is being stopped constantly, and sometimes detentions of community members have occurred. Many of the detentions were of people with a legal right to be in the USA. Hard to explain that "Dad got snatched off the boat, they'll probably spring him...sometime" to the kids at home.

Another effect of the current nonsense is that we all had a very cooperative relationship with the local Coast Guard units, who helped us with all sorts of things. They often stop in at several of the stores along waterfronts to grab their lunches. Since they've been involved in multi-agency activities the past year, they have gone from "heroes to zeroes" in the eyes of most of the local community, and a large chunk of our quite active Coast Guard Auxiliary unit has resigned.

Sad times.

KayLR

1-20-26, 3:07pm

This. Is. Not. Normal.

Bae, I sub at a school much like, almost exactly like, your partner's. 42% Latino student population, and we are experiencing much of the same. I hear Seattle is noting higher ICE presence this week.

Rogar

1-20-26, 3:36pm

Colorado has a sizable Hispanic population, especially in the south. There have been a few ICE roundups of most likely gangsters in bad areas, but I've not seen much evidence of a big ICE presence and disruptions like those mentioned. Maybe it's coming. Friends went to a rally/protest last week and said the turnout was rather anemic. Most of Trump's revenge tour here has been around the imprisonment of Tina Peters.

pinkytoe

1-20-26, 3:46pm

I am also concerned as to what is happening once they are in custody
I wonder about this too as not much is out there other than "detention" centers.

bae

1-20-26, 3:52pm

Colorado has a sizable Hispanic population, especially in the south.

My mother-in-law and father-in-law were both cultural anthropologists, out of Colorado College. They often studied Hispanic settlements that pre-existed the establishment of the USA.

The village my FIL worked with the most was way up in the hills, and not a word of English was spoken there the times I visited over the decades. I suspect everyone there was a citizen.

My MIL worked for decades using her research to return land use rights to the peoples of the San Luis Valley, which had been cruelly taken by the wealthy Anglo immigrants to the region. She did similar things for the Native American peoples of the region - the Navajo Nation sent a delegation to her funeral, and there is a plaque honoring her work in the National Museum of the American Indian in DC, up near the treaty room exhibit. There's another similar plaque and display in the Palace of The Governors in Santa Fe.

bae

1-20-26, 4:16pm

I wonder about this too as not much is out there other than "detention" centers.

Possibly of interest:

https://truthout.org/articles/deaths-in-detention-warn-of-horrors-behind-ices-prison-walls/

Alan

1-20-26, 4:28pm

Not me buddy! I aint stickin’ my neck out for that!
>
>
>
if we can find social media discussion sites that support good faith, nuanced discussion, that’s the real deal.
We could become that site, but I don't think anyone's interested. :(

iris lilies

1-20-26, 4:43pm

:)

We could become that site, but I don't think anyone's interested. :(

oh agreed, this is not the place.�� :~)

frugal-one

1-20-26, 5:34pm

LOL, we could spend the rest of our lives implying un-named things we saw in videos we don't share and never get any closer to understanding what's real and what's not.

What interests me in cases like this is what is actually happening, who is participating and in what manner. Are confrontations happening only in sanctuary cities/states or across the board? Are protestors being peaceful or are they trying to prevent officers from doing their duty? Are random citizens being shoved into vans and "disappeared" or are people violating federal law being arrested? Are they targeting everyone of a certain perceived race or nationality or are they simply targeting those known to have removal orders wherever they can be found.

I'm having a difficult time finding context in anything found online or in discussions regarding what others have seen, plus I've discovered that trying to inject context just seems to piss people off so I'd love to see someone brave enough to voluntarily supply it outside of an agenda or preferred narrative.

In talking with my son in Minneapolis, ICE has blocked off streets and go down the streets enmasse and round up whoever they find. Many legal citizens are carted off and later released. That is why I keep referring to the gestapo or secret police. This is the same format as how they rounded up the jews. It is no wonder people are upset and want ICE out. I would be out in the streets too under these conditions. It shouldn’t matter what city in the US this happens in! This is just WRONG!

Rogar

1-20-26, 6:52pm

My mother-in-law and father-in-law were both cultural anthropologists, out of Colorado College. They often studied Hispanic settlements that pre-existed the establishment of the USA.

The village my FIL worked with the most was way up in the hills, and not a word of English was spoken there the times I visited over the decades. I suspect everyone there was a citizen.

My MIL worked for decades using her research to return land use rights to the peoples of the San Luis Valley, which had been cruelly taken by the wealthy Anglo immigrants to the region. She did similar things for the Native American peoples of the region - the Navajo Nation sent a delegation to her funeral, and there is a plaque honoring her work in the National Museum of the American Indian in DC, up near the treaty room exhibit. There's another similar plaque

and display in the Palace of The Governors in Santa Fe.

That's pretty neat. I am no stranger to the San Luis Valley and know of places where Hispanic communities were there way before us gringos. There are also a lot of Japanese farmers who came there in the early 1900's for cheap land and opportunity. If you have ever seen the movie, "The Milagro Beanfield War", it is about a young white sociologist who moves from the east coast to a little remote village in northern New Mexico to study their culture, maybe in the 70's. Redford was a little heavy handed with his Hollywood license, but I've had work assignments there and it was a fairly accurate portrayal, except every one spoke Spanish and maybe a little like your in laws experienced. And I felt about out of place as Herbie the sociologist. That was 30 or so years ago. I suspect the internet and cell phones and maybe drugs have changed that culture significantly, but I think those little isolated Hispanic towns or villages were not too much changed well into the 20th century..

Fort Garland in the SLV once displayed the life history and collection of Kit Carson, but but recently has been changed to tell the history of the enslavement of the Dine women and children at a near-by Indian agency and also a history of the Buffalo soldiers in the region, and I hope it's under the radar for Trump and Stephen Miller.

Land ownership in Greenland is unique. The way I get it, all the land belongs to the government. People own their residential buildings and businesses, but lease or are allowed the land and do not own it. I assume mineral rights are similar. Where here, a landowner may also own the mineral rights beneath his land, in Greenland I'm guessing the government that owns the land owns the mineral rights. I don't picture many opportunities for golf resorts, though. Military occupation to insure national security by land ownership is basically a fabrication.

Alan

1-20-26, 6:59pm

In talking with my son in Minneapolis, ICE has blocked off streets and go down the streets enmasse and round up whoever they find. Many legal citizens are carted off and later released. That is why I keep referring to the gestapo or secret police. This is the same format as how they rounded up the jews. It is no wonder people are upset and want ICE out. I would be out in the streets too under these conditions. It shouldn’t matter what city in the US this happens in! This is just WRONG!
So, do these second hand reports of legal citizens being carted off and later released consist of protestors being arrested and taken to local police for processing but released due to sanctuary city policies of not helping or backing up federal officers or are they just random folks who may look or act like an illegal alien, whatever that means?
It also does matter in what city these things happen in because certain sanctuary cities or states will not allow their law enforcement and judicial officials to cooperate with immigration officers which leaves those officers dependent on going out into wanted persons neighborhoods to find them. In non-sanctuary cities/states local officials can and do simply notify immigration officers when an illegal alien is being released from jail or allowed to leave court so that they can be picked up and processed by federal officials in a controlled environment. Which of those situations apply to your son's neighborhood?

iris lilies

1-20-26, 8:28pm

So, do these second hand reports of legal citizens being carted off and later released consist of protestors being arrested and taken to local police for processing but released due to sanctuary city policies of not helping or backing up federal officers or are they just random folks who may look or act like an illegal alien, whatever that means?
It also does matter in what city these things happen in because certain sanctuary cities or states will not allow their law enforcement and judicial officials to cooperate with immigration officers which leaves those officers dependent on going out into wanted persons neighborhoods to find them. In non-sanctuary cities/states local officials can and do simply notify immigration officers when an illegal alien is being released from jail or allowed to leave court so that they can be picked up and processed by federal officials in a controlled environment. Which of those situations apply to your son's neighborhood?
During the Mike Brown/Ferguson riots here it was a badge of honor for protestors to be arrested.

Our City’s Aldermen just could not drive out to that suburb fast enough to get themselves into a paddy wagon, all the better if news media had shots of them in that compromised position.

More than one local politician used their arrest as a badge of pride in their campaigns for re-election.

Alan

1-20-26, 8:46pm

During the Mike Brown/Ferguson riots here it was a badge of honor for protestors to be arrested.

Our City’s Aldermen just could not drive out to that suburb fast enough to get themselves into a paddy wagon, all the better if news media had shots of them in that compromised position.

More than one local politician used their arrest as a badge of pride in their campaigns for re-election.
LOL, fits right in with my long time belief that most politicians are self-serving idiots and most media coverage is nothing but entertainment for the perpetually outraged. ;)

Rogar

1-21-26, 7:50am

I've seen speculation that the Supreme Court could rule on tariffs as soon as next week. That cold change a lot of things, including Trump's hold on the EU. Or not.

frugal-one

1-21-26, 9:01am

So, do these second hand reports of legal citizens being carted off and later released consist of protestors being arrested and taken to local police for processing but released due to sanctuary city policies of not helping or backing up federal officers or are they just random folks who may look or act like an illegal alien, whatever that means?
It also does matter in what city these things happen in because certain sanctuary cities or states will not allow their law enforcement and judicial officials to cooperate with immigration officers which leaves those officers dependent on going out into wanted persons neighborhoods to find them. In non-sanctuary cities/states local officials can and do simply notify immigration officers when an illegal alien is being released from jail or allowed to leave court so that they can be picked up and processed by federal officials in a controlled environment. Which of those situations apply to your son's neighborhood?

I wasn’t there so can’t answer these questions. The POINT is these people should not have been rounded up AT ALL!The count I heard recently from news reports is 3,000 people were grabbed in Minneapolis. This is VERY concerning that people, including children, are being rounding up like cattle and sent to ? I can see investigations where the worse of the worse are detained but not willy nilly absconding of people.

Alan, We should all be OUTRAGED that this is happening!

catherine

1-21-26, 10:02am

iris lilies

1-21-26, 10:42am

Here is one account and I can't believe it's an isolated one.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ice-approaching-people-minneapolis-demanding-proof-citizenship-rcna254247

IMHO, when people Joe Rogan is complaining about "Gestapo sh*t" we can assume this is a bipartisan affront to all.

Rogan is a populist. He’s no Republican or conservative.

That said, no, we do not like “Gestapo “tactics if that’s what really is happening.

I guess you all preferred the kinder, general deportation program headed by Tom Homan when he worked for Barack Obama. Twice as many were deported in Obama’s first year than during Trump’s first year. I wonder what Donald would say about that? Ha ha he would not like that number comparison.

Tom Homan is now the devil but is not someone we heard about on these boards way back in those years of Obama presidency. Partisan much?

Deportation during the halcyon Obama years did not require President Obama to grapple with sanctuary cities and sanctuary states that refused to cooperate with federal law enforcement. That’s back when people were more sane and we understood that an open border is not a good thing, immigration law needs enforcement.

catherine

1-21-26, 11:19am

Rogan is a populist. He’s no Republican or conservative.

That said, no, we do not like “Gestapo “tactics if that’s what really is happening.

I guess you all preferred the kinder, general deportation program headed by Tom Homan when he worked for Barack Obama. Twice as many were deported in Obama’s first year than during Trump’s first year. I wonder what Donald would say about that? Ha ha he would not like that number comparison.

Tom Homan is now the devil but is not someone we heard about on these boards way back in those years of Obama presidency. Partisan much?

Deportation during the halcyon Obama years did not require President Obama to grapple with sanctuary cities and sanctuary states that refused to cooperate with federal law enforcement. That’s back when people were more sane and we understood that an open border is not a good thing, immigration law needs enforcement.

I asked AI why we didn't hear more about Obama's deportations and they said:

We didn't hear more about Obama's deportations because his administration shifted focus to interior removals of criminals/recent crossers, reducing large-scale raids, and implemented policies like DACA, while border removals remained high, creating confusion; however, critics argued his administration still deported many non-criminals and that priorities weren't always met, but the narrative emphasized "humane" enforcement and targeted threats over the sheer numbers.

Key Reasons for Less Focus on Deportations
Shift in Enforcement Priorities: The administration prioritized removing national security threats, recent border crossers, and serious criminals, reducing large-scale workplace raids common under Bush and focusing on interior enforcement, though results were mixed.
"Humane" Enforcement Narrative: Obama aimed to make enforcement more "humane," focusing on felons rather than families, which became the public story, despite reports of continued harshness.
DACA & Prosecutorial Discretion: Programs like Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) offered temporary relief, creating a perception of leniency, though millions were still deported.
Resource Constraints & Strategy: Facing an economic crisis, the administration used enforcement as a tactic to build political will for broader immigration reform, which ultimately stalled.
Declining Interior Removals: While border removals stayed high, interior removals dropped significantly, shifting the type of deportation, even if total numbers were high, making headlines less consistent.

Criticism & Reality
"Deporter-in-Chief" Title: Obama earned the nickname due to high overall numbers, but advocates argued he deported many without serious criminal records, undermining his "humane" stance.
Mixed Results: Policies like the Priority Enforcement Program (PEP) aimed to focus on serious crimes, but data showed many deported didn't fit strict priority definitions.
In essence, the focus was on who was being deported (criminals vs. non-criminals) and how (interior vs. border), rather than just the total count, creating a complex narrative that sometimes obscured the significant enforcement still occurring.

iris lilies

1-21-26, 11:21am

I will idly comment that my former city residence, St. Louis is a Sanctuary City For reproductive rights.

When that aldermanic bill passed, I knew the place was truly crazy. I don’t even know what it means. Of course it’s obviously performative, but at some point, will there be state or federal strife about “reproductive rights” within STL? I can’t see how that would have any teeth anyway.

It’s all so stupid, and I wish we could get back to the important business of covering governing cleanly and minimally.

iris lilies

1-21-26, 11:25am

I asked AI why we didn't hear more about Obama's deportations and they said:

We didn't hear more about Obama's deportations because his administration shifted focus to interior removals of criminals/recent crossers, reducing large-scale raids, and implemented policies like DACA, while border removals remained high, creating confusion; however, critics argued his administration still deported many non-criminals and that priorities weren't always met, but the narrative emphasized "humane" enforcement and targeted threats over the sheer numbers.

Key Reasons for Less Focus on Deportations
Shift in Enforcement Priorities: The administration prioritized removing national security threats, recent border crossers, and serious criminals, reducing large-scale workplace raids common under Bush and focusing on interior enforcement, though results were mixed.
"Humane" Enforcement Narrative: Obama aimed to make enforcement more "humane," focusing on felons rather than families, which became the public story, despite reports of continued harshness.
DACA & Prosecutorial Discretion: Programs like Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) offered temporary relief, creating a perception of leniency, though millions were still deported.
Resource Constraints & Strategy: Facing an economic crisis, the administration used enforcement as a tactic to build political will for broader immigration reform, which ultimately stalled.
Declining Interior Removals: While border removals stayed high, interior removals dropped significantly, shifting the type of deportation, even if total numbers were high, making headlines less consistent.

Criticism & Reality
"Deporter-in-Chief" Title: Obama earned the nickname due to high overall numbers, but advocates argued he deported many without serious criminal records, undermining his "humane" stance.
Mixed Results: Policies like the Priority Enforcement Program (PEP) aimed to focus on serious crimes, but data showed many deported didn't fit strict priority definitions.
In essence, the focus was on who was being deported (criminals vs. non-criminals) and how (interior vs. border), rather than just the total count, creating a complex narrative that sometimes obscured the significant enforcement still occurring.

I like that AI summary, it seems even handed.

Alan

1-21-26, 11:40am

I like that AI summary, it seems even handed.
Yes, it did.
Two things off the top of my head about it: #1 It seemed to be comparing Obama's border enforcement to the previous Bush administration and #2, It didn't mention the problems associated with 4 years of nearly unfettered access to the country by millions of minimally vetted people swarming into the country illegally. It would have been useful to the ongoing discussion here and elsewhere to bring it up to date.

Rogar

1-21-26, 11:59am

The comparison of Obama deportations with Trump is sort of apples to oranges. The majority of Obama deportations were recent illegal border crossings. Now border crossings are virtually shutdown. However I hardly buy Noem's claim that most of the ICE roundups are convicted dangerous criminals. They are basically grabbing people off the streets. Since Noem won't release much information, the real figures are unknown. Today's news featured an off duty Minneapolis cop of color who was stopped and asked for her papers. ICE is targeting people of color or accent demanding "papers". It reminisces of other historic events where government goons randomly stopped people demanding their papers and hauling people off to the unknown.

BTW, Carney's speech at Davos is worth a read. He basically was asking countries to stand up to bullying, no names mentioned (ha). He said something like you can eith sit at the table, or be on the menu. It got a standing ovation.

Alan

1-21-26, 2:30pm

The comparison of Obama deportations with Trump is sort of apples to oranges. The majority of Obama deportations were recent illegal border crossings.
Yes it is apples to oranges, it doesn't take into account the 4 years of lax enforcement in-between those two administrations.

BTW, Carney's speech at Davos is worth a read. He basically was asking countries to stand up to bullying, no names mentioned (ha). He said something like you can eith sit at the table, or be on the menu. It got a standing ovation.
I heard parts of it, and so did the Washington Post who had this to say:
...Frustrations with one American president need not give way to the agenda of dictators. “I had discussions with President Xi about the situation in Greenland, about our sovereignty in the Arctic, about the sovereignty of the people of Greenland and the people of Denmark,” Carney said. “And I found much alignment of views in that regard.”
What? There is universal agreement within NATO that the Arctic must be protected from China and Russia. Any suggestion that Ottawa and Beijing agree on geopolitical strategy concerning the Arctic is either deeply insincere or worryingly naive."

Alan

1-21-26, 2:35pm

I wasn’t there so can’t answer these questions. The POINT is these people should not have been rounded up AT ALL!
How can you make a valid POINT without knowledge of background?

iris lilies

1-21-26, 8:39pm

This is the REAL problem in the Twin Cities as I see it, the clamping down of free speech by government agents. This is far more concerning to me than people who are here illegally being detained and deported. To a lesser extent, as the author this article points out, people are assuming they have First Amendment rights they do not.

Greg Lukianoff heads up an organization I donate to annually: FIRE the Foundation for Individual Rights and Freedoms. It’s an organization that concerns itself with First Amendment rights. His organization had plenty to do during the Biden administration, but now in Trump World his challenges are on steroids, although the organization focuses on activities of college campuses.

https://open.substack.com/pub/bariweiss/p/the-campaign-to-crush-free-speech?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

Rogar

1-21-26, 10:56pm

Yes it is apples to oranges, it doesn't take into account the 4 years of lax enforcement in-between those two administrations.

I heard parts of it, and so did the Washington Post who had this to say:
[/COLOR]...Frustrations with one American president need not give way to the agenda of dictators. “I had discussions with President Xi about the situation in Greenland, about our sovereignty in the Arctic, about the sovereignty of the people of Greenland and the people of Denmark,” Carney said. “And I found much alignment of views in that regard.”
What? There is universal agreement within NATO that the Arctic must be protected from China and Russia. Any suggestion that Ottawa and Beijing agree on geopolitical strategy concerning the Arctic is either deeply insincere or worryingly naive."

I think one of the reasons Trump backed off his Greenland domination was the new threats that Canada and some of the other EU countries are starting to make alliances with China because Trump is screwing them with his tariff games and threats of aggressive global domination. Trumps isn't exactly all powerful when all of the EU and Canada are combined.

Objectively, I could see them thinking dealing with China or maybe Russia may have an advantage over their deteriorating long term trade allegiance with the US, all considered.

A commentary on Trump's rambling speech showed him saying something to the effect that China is the biggest producer of wind turbines in the world, yet they don't have any. The commentary said that actually China is leading in wind power generation and 20% of their electricity cones from the wind. I think Russia is just a big gas station, but I'd worried about who is king of the mountain if we don't keep up with education and technology.