View Full Version : If they cut social security and medicare
A couple of months ago the Republicans were saying Medicare and Social Security were not off the table for cuts.
So now that Musk has gotten access to both of these databases (as of last night) and is reputedly running code in them, and also has access to the Federal payment system, what plans are you making to get by without Social Security and Medicare? I'm feeling the need in own household to make a plan as to what we might do if these get cut off suddenly.
Heading into retirement - I'm terrified! SS is to be my biggest source of income and Medicare will be my medical.
I am just about to fill out the paperwork to start receiving Social Security benefits this year. I will appreciate the additional income.
However, I'd always assumed the SS system would be belly-up by the time I got around to collecting anything, so I did not include the income in my retirement financial planning. It's all gravy to me.
I was counting on Medicare however. My solution there may be to buy private insurance, probably in some other country, as in a few years I expect to be living overseas much of the year.
Happy, I am trying not to be scared but I really hear you, and that is why I started this, to see how others were factoring it in.
"However, I'd always assumed the SS system would be belly-up by the time I got around to collecting anything, so I did not include the income in my retirement financial planning."
I guess that was good planning right there.
iris lilies
2-6-25, 8:12pm
I have always thought, and have expressed here more than once, that means testing seems like a good first step for grappling with the huge Social Security burden that is not funding itself (or is projected to soon run out.) The logical way to means test is review other sources of income for people who receive SS and perhaps cut their SS.
ToomuchStuff
2-6-25, 9:53pm
My solution there may be to buy private insurance, probably in some other country, as in a few years I expect to be living overseas much of the year.
The last thing I heard on SS going away, was some time ago. It involved cutting for those that don't have income, but live on investments.
That said, should we be taking odd on this site, who leaves the country first and who stays and complains?:laff:
That said, should we be taking odd on this site, who leaves the country first and who stays and complains?:laff:
Well, I already speak multiple languages, have visas and housing already taken care of, sufficient funds overseas already to cover my costs, and 3 freshly-issued quite-rare-and-expensive vacation rental permits for my houses here on the island.
Much of my motivation is that my dear daughter lives overseas and will not likely be living in the USA in the foreseeable future. I could rent out my places here, and use that to fund living all over the world, which I'd love to do before I get too old to do it happily.
I had thought to just move onto a really nice circumnavigation-capable yacht and wander the world, but my experience in a Seattle->Hawaii crossing teaches me that I value the company of others too much to live with just 1-2 other people for weeks at a time. I think this puts the kibosh on my idea of hanging out on the ISS as well :-)
I have always thought, and have expressed here more than once, that means testing seems like a good first step for grappling with the huge Social Security burden that is not funding itself (or is projected to soon run out.) The logical way to means test is review other sources of income for people who receive SS and perhaps cut their SS.
The day means testing for social security starts is the day social security becomes just another welfare program that can eventually be destroyed by the republicans.
This is all a battle for the soul of America. It is Civil War II, just without guns (so far).
Sadly, Catherine, you are right.
I am wishing that VT, NH, and ME could become a Canadian Province--New England would be a good name.
Edited to add MA, RI, and CT, sorry not to have included you guys
The last thing I heard on SS going away, was some time ago. It involved cutting for those that don't have income, but live on investments.
That said, should we be taking odd on this site, who leaves the country first and who stays and complains?:laff:
Not as easy to leave the country as you may think…
iris lilies
2-7-25, 9:50am
The day means testing for social security starts is the day social security becomes just another welfare program that can eventually be destroyed by the republicans.
Of course the Republicans the government can destroy Social Security, it is a government program. How many Presidents have raided it? Any of them Democrats?
And it is already means tested. There isn’t a straight percentage paid out based on income. SS pays out 42% of a $60,000 salary but only 26% of a $120,000 salary. Obviously it is taking income into consideration vis a vis life needs. It also pays reduced benefits if you are working a job (i.e. have other forms of income) at certain times of benefit eligibility.
iris lilies
2-7-25, 9:52am
Not as easy to leave the country as you may think…
I don’t think it is easy, I think y’all are not sufficiently motivated.
Of course the Republicans the government can destroy Social Security, it is a government program. How many Presidents have raided it? Any of them Democrats?
And it is already means tested. There isn’t a straight percentage paid out based on income. SS pays out 42% of a $60,000 salary but only 26% of a $120,000 salary. Obviously it is taking income into consideration vis a vis life needs. It also pays reduced benefits if you are working a job (i.e. have other forms of income) at certain times of benefit eligibility.
You're kidding, right?
iris lilies
2-7-25, 10:03am
You're kidding, right?no not at all. What do you mean?
Are any of you at all concerned about the Social Security system running out of money? This is the site I’ve been skimming but there are thousands of similar doom and gloom projections
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/social-security-set-run-out-money-2034-heres-why-thats-probably-too-optimistic
I won’t even ask about your concern for children and grandchildren and social security. I will ask about people —today—who depend to an extraordinary degree on it.
Wouldn’t you rather see me, with my generous household income of $95,000 annually cut back than a person who relies on her $18,000 SS payments for everything? It just seems logical to me.
Not as easy to leave the country as you may think…
It’s pretty simple for me:
- I can kayak to Canada in moments, my house is right on the border.
- I can walk down to the dock and catch the seaplane to either Seattle or Vancouver, and from there be in London in 9 hours or so. A bit longer if I stop off in Iceland.
- if you have more time, you can leisurely sail from here to just about anywhere.
Of course the Republicans the government can destroy Social Security, it is a government program. How many Presidents have raided it? Any of them Democrats?
And it is already means tested. There isn’t a straight percentage paid out based on income. SS pays out 42% of a $60,000 salary but only 26% of a $120,000 salary. Obviously it is taking income into consideration vis a vis life needs. It also pays reduced benefits if you are working a job (i.e. have other forms of income) at certain times of benefit eligibility.
Stop trying to pretend that the democrats are interested in destroying social security. Only one of our main political parties is interested in doing that. and it aint the democrats. I'll never forget the sad day when W Bush pulled a bunch of paper out of a file cabinet and said "see this? This is the social security trust fund. It's just worthless paper." eff him and the shitty party still he belongs to. I stand by my previous statement. Social security is a DRAMATICALLY popular government program. Making it a means tested program will make it dramatically easier for the chitty republicans to destroy and send lots of old folks into poverty. That's their goal and they should own it and be proud of it. And you should too even if it screws you over. Or do you have some other pension so you have no skin in this game?
Stop trying to pretend that the democrats are interested in destroying social security. Only one of our main political parties is interested in doing that. and it aint the democrats. I'll never forget the sad day when W Bush pulled a bunch of paper out of a file cabinet and said "see this? This is the social security trust fund. It's just worthless paper." eff him and the shitty party still he belongs to. I stand by my previous statement. Social security is a DRAMATICALLY popular government program. Making it a means tested program will make it dramatically easier for the chitty republicans to destroy and send lots of old folks into poverty. That's their goal and they should own it and be proud of it. And you should too even if it screws you over. Or do you have some other pension so you have no skin in this game?
I think that is their point, to kill off the old people as we are useless eaters to them, and we have long memories, so are less easily manipulated.
iris lilies
2-13-25, 10:23am
Stop trying to pretend that the democrats are interested in destroying social security. Only one of our main political parties is interested in doing that. and it aint the democrats. I'll never forget the sad day when W Bush pulled a bunch of paper out of a file cabinet and said "see this? This is the social security trust fund. It's just worthless paper." eff him and the shitty party still he belongs to. I stand by my previous statement. Social security is a DRAMATICALLY popular government program. Making it a means tested program will make it dramatically easier for the chitty republicans to destroy and send lots of old folks into poverty. That's their goal and they should own it and be proud of it. And you should too even if it screws you over. Or do you have some other pension so you have no skin in this game?
Of course it is a DRAMATICALLY popular program. Is water wet?
We have been told the SS trust fund runs out of money at some point within the next ten years. Do you believe that? If not, why not? If so, do ya have any plan to save it? Why aren't you worried about people who rely solely on SS as their income? Doesn't seem very kind or caring to me.
iris lilies
2-13-25, 12:15pm
About the government’s ability and intent to change and cut Social Security:
There are always tweaks being made to the SS system. Sometimes those tweaks (most often?) result in people losing benefits or money. Examples off the top of my head that I personally have seen:
*percentages of SS income taxed …changes were made
* how much you can draw has changed with full retirement age going from 65 to 66 to 67…and beyond…personally affected me
* deletion of the “file and suspend” option which hurt our household pocketbook
Those examples just scratch the surface of changes which could be termed “cutbacks.” They are just the few I know about, there are many I do not know about.
My point is the rules and regulations of the Social Security system are set by the government and whichever regime is in power can and will change it.
frugal-one
2-13-25, 2:11pm
I don’t think it is easy, I think y’all are not sufficiently motivated.
No. I have checked it out.
frugal-one
2-13-25, 2:13pm
It’s pretty simple for me:
- I can kayak to Canada in moments, my house is right on the border.
- I can walk down to the dock and catch the seaplane to either Seattle or Vancouver, and from there be in London in 9 hours or so. A bit longer if I stop off in Iceland.
- if you have more time, you can leisurely sail from here to just about anywhere.
True… but how long can you stay or live there permanently? Canada especially requires you to have mega dollars
True… but how long can you stay or live there permanently? Canada especially requires you to have mega dollars
He seems to not lack for cash so may be OK there. Especially if he sells property.
iris lilies
2-13-25, 2:18pm
No. I have checked it out.
It’s easy to move to Mexico, Costa Rica, Thailand, just to name a few.
True… but how long can you stay or live there permanently? Canada especially requires you to have mega dollars
Well, I’m in my early 60s, and my male relatives tend to live to their late-90s, so, 30+ years or so?
frugal-one
2-13-25, 9:41pm
Well, I’m in my early 60s, and my male relatives tend to live to their late-90s, so, 30+ years or so?
That is not what I meant. You may have enough cash to relocate but if you do not you can only stay for a limited amount of time yearly.
frugal-one
2-13-25, 9:46pm
It’s easy to move to Mexico, Costa Rica, Thailand, just to name a few.
The question also is … do you want to live in those places? I have been to all and only Costa Rica would be a maybe. I have not checked their requirements because it would be a place low on the list. The living conditions in Mexico and Thailand would not be easy.
That is not what I meant. You may have enough cash to relocate but if you do not you can only stay for a limited amount of time yearly.
I read YMOYL, followed the plan, and retired, in 1999 or so. I have sufficient capital set aside to sustain me through most reasonable situations, and a few unreasonable ones.
frugal-one
2-13-25, 9:55pm
I did the same but, evidently, not enough to relocate to Canada!
iris lilies
2-13-25, 10:11pm
The question also is … do you want to live in those places? I have been to all and only Costa Rica would be a maybe. I have not checked their requirements because it would be a place low on the list. The living conditions in Mexico and Thailand would not be easy.
I’m not talking about me. I’m talking about you because you’re the one who wants to leave the United States.
If you’re picky about these places that are fairly nice, I reiterate, you are not sufficiently motivated to leave the United States.
If you’re picky about these places that are fairly nice, I reiterate, you are not sufficiently motivated to leave the United States.
I still think it is easier than most people know. You *don't* need a visa in most places if you stay there < 6 months, or whatever their particular timer is. If you are willing to shuttle between a couple of places, you're set. And some places are quite inexpensive. And if you have friends in similar circumstances, you can house-swap and keep your costs even lower.
frugal-one
2-14-25, 3:56am
I still think it is easier than most people know. You *don't* need a visa in most places if you stay there < 6 months, or whatever their particular timer is. If you are willing to shuttle between a couple of places, you're set. And some places are quite inexpensive. And if you have friends in similar circumstances, you can house-swap and keep your costs even lower.
This is not meant to be a vacation whereby you visit for a few months. Obviously it would be easy to go anywhere for a few months but not find a place to call home. This is especially problematic if you are not in the best of health.
frugal-one
2-14-25, 3:59am
I’m not talking about me. I’m talking about you because you’re the one who wants to leave the United States.
If you’re picky about these places that are fairly nice, I reiterate, you are not sufficiently motivated to leave the United States.
You obviously have not been there!
This is not meant to be a vacation whereby you visit for a few months. Obviously it would be easy to go anywhere for a few months but not find a place to call home. This is especially problematic if you are not in the best of health.
My simple plan, should I get there, involves spending ~6 months in a country in which I already have a home, ~2 weeks back in the USA visiting friends/relatives, and the other ~6 months in a different county, where I will either rent or house-swap.
Where I live now, half of the residents spend 3-6 months a year in Thailand or Costa Rica - our winters are a bit much for most.
I'm just saying, don't let the visa thing hang you up, there are legit ways to work around lack of visa.
Could you buy property in Canada without a visa, though? And how can you get money into a bank account that is not a US bank account?
Those are my questions right now.
I saw an ad somewhere recently advertising a four year long world tour on cruise ships. I'm guessing they just linked together a bunch of shorter voyages.
I don't have any desire to relocate away from where I've lived most of my life. In away that's almost like bending the knee to Trump and in my worst case scenario I'm not seeing some return to a Hitler-like nation. I do have a small assortment of emergency and survival gear ready just in case.
I saw an ad somewhere recently advertising a four year long world tour on cruise ships. I'm guessing they just linked together a bunch of shorter voyages.
That sounds like heaven, honestly. I guess I'd have to change my name to Phillipa Nolan.
ToomuchStuff
2-14-25, 11:02am
I saw an ad somewhere recently advertising a four year long world tour on cruise ships. I'm guessing they just linked together a bunch of shorter voyages.
I don't have any desire to relocate away from where I've lived most of my life. In away that's almost like bending the knee to Trump and in my worst case scenario I'm not seeing some return to a Hitler-like nation. I do have a small assortment of emergency and survival gear ready just in case.
The last one I was aware of, they couldn't find a ship for. It was supposed to be on one ship, that sailed all over where other ships cruised to.
I have no desire to leave the US, especially as a single woman. My entire support system is here. I have no connections to any country that might allow me to get a second passport or easy entry. My father’s family was in the US well before World War I from Germany. My mother’s family came to the US from Ontario in the early 30s. I say I’m half Canadian, but my mother and her three preceding siblings were born in the US.
iris lilies
2-14-25, 3:21pm
Just a few years ago, since we finally had the time post retirement, we seriously pursued Swiss citizenship for DH because he had some sort of “in” for that due to his mother’s birth in Switzerland.
Along with his sister who was the main driver in this quest, we chased down what would really be required, getting the facts after visiting their mother’s canton in Switzerland.
The process came down to passing a language test along with a few other things that seemed do-able. But DH doesn’t speak nearly enough Swiss dialect to pass any sort of test and neither does anyone in his family. Their mother is dead.
I was a little disappointed because while I never would have wanted to live in Switzerland —too expensive!—I liked the idea of Swiss citizenship in the abstract. And Switzerland is NOT a member of the European Union, so that theoretical status would not have allowed me residence in the UK which was once my dream place.
now, I watch cultural shifts in the UK that trouble me and I do not want to throw my lot in with them despite my deep and abiding love of so many aspects of the UK.
Related: I made quick back of the envelope calculation about owning a property in Romania similar to our Hermann, Missouri property. It seemed less expensive in
Hermann. Romania fascinated me! The U.S. has a long way to go to reach the level of societal corruption and malaise of Romania, tho, so I will stay put.
Yes, the UK has its own bucket of ongoing and developing problems.
The only reason it is on my list is that my daughter lives there. Learning the language over there is a bit of a struggle for me, it *sounds* like English, but is some weird other tongue.
Yes, the UK has its own bucket of ongoing and developing problems.
The only reason it is on my list is that my daughter lives there. Learning the language over there is a bit of a struggle for me, it *sounds* like English, but is some weird other tongue.
I listen to BBC Radio daily and have for years, Radio 4 and 5 Live. I have to actually stop myself from throwing Brit phrases and slang into my vocabulary. I can understand them pretty well.
ToomuchStuff
2-14-25, 11:45pm
Yes, the UK has its own bucket of ongoing and developing problems.
The only reason it is on my list is that my daughter lives there. Learning the language over there is a bit of a struggle for me, it *sounds* like English, but is some weird other tongue.
Gaelic? Cockney? Welsh or something else like Anglo Saxon?
Gaelic? Cockney? Welsh or something else like Anglo Saxon?
Oddly, I have a vague understanding of Gaelic, Welsh, and Old English/Anglo Saxon(*) It’s the regional British “English” accents that can befuddle my ears.
(*)My daughter’s field.
flowerseverywhere
2-15-25, 5:08am
If Medicare is cut many people over 65 are going to struggle. We have an hmo, so no extra premium but of course we are limited. With bc/bs we have a huge selection in my area so I don’t worry. You pay for Medicare like any other plan, but there are strict guidelines about what they cover.
social security is the main source of many people. Pensions are largely gone or greatly reduced. So it is up to people to have 401k, paid for house etc.
the problems arise if you are a mid to low income worker, someone in the family is sick or disabled, you were downsized, got caught up in the 2008 housing mess, as well as other factors beyond your control.
I’ve got to say, in my mid 70’s there are many jobs I can no longer do, and I am healthier and ,ore active than the majority of my peers. Like standing on my feet for hours, lifting heavy things, working long hours and so on. I’m not sure what would happen to old people if there were significant cuts.
flowerseverywhere
2-15-25, 5:12am
Iris, we watched a documentary on Transylvania in Romania last night. What a totally enchanting and wild place. However at the end they talked about developers are trying to get into the area. Scenes of the carpathian mountains, small villages with storks on the roofs, traditional dress and horse drawn wagons seemed idyllic but I have difficulty imagining many outsiders would be welcome. Language being a big barrier. Plus a much less modern American standard of living
Romanian is not a difficult language. If you know Latin, you’re almost there.
If Medicare is cut many people over 65 are going to struggle. We have an hmo, so no extra premium but of course we are limited. With bc/bs we have a huge selection in my area so I don’t worry. You pay for Medicare like any other plan, but there are strict guidelines about what they cover.
social security is the main source of many people. Pensions are largely gone or greatly reduced. So it is up to people to have 401k, paid for house etc.
the problems arise if you are a mid to low income worker, someone in the family is sick or disabled, you were downsized, got caught up in the 2008 housing mess, as well as other factors beyond your control.
I’ve got to say, in my mid 70’s there are many jobs I can no longer do, and I am healthier and ,ore active than the majority of my peers. Like standing on my feet for hours, lifting heavy things, working long hours and so on. I’m not sure what would happen to old people if there were significant cuts.
They will die. That is the point.
Oddly, I have a vague understanding of Gaelic, Welsh, and Old English/Anglo Saxon(*) It’s the regional British “English” accents that can befuddle my ears.
(*)My daughter’s field.
Yes, I remember after doing my Junior Year Abroad in London, and then meeting my husband-to-be and going to his Scottish family picnic, I was shocked that while I felt totally like the sophisticated UK traveller, I was humbled by my Glaswegian to-be-in-laws whom I was completely unable to comprehend, much like in this classic skit (speaking of SNL 50th year reunion, as in the other tread)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGRcJQ9tMbY
iris lilies
2-15-25, 2:24pm
Yes, I remember after doing my Junior Year Abroad in London, and then meeting my husband-to-be and going to his Scottish family picnic, I was shocked that while I felt totally like the sophisticated UK traveller, I was humbled by my Glaswegian to-be-in-laws whom I was completely unable to comprehend, much like in this classic skit (speaking of SNL 50th year reunion, as in the other tread)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGRcJQ9tMbY
for a while I had a mad crush on James McAvoy that was unbecoming for an old lady. That was when he was still doing quality films. Now he does junk, but I’m glad he’s making big bucks.
iris lilies
2-15-25, 10:40pm
I had an up close and personal experience with the government taking away my Social Security participation. The experience only cemented my deep rooted distrust of government programs because today they’re here and gone tomorrow. I wrote about it a dozen years ago here, but here’s the first post I made about it back in June 2012:
iris Lily wrote in 2012:
One of these days I'll give a detailed saga of my interactions with the Social Security Administration concerning the strange problem of my workplace's participation in SS. One day we are in and the next day we are not, according to the SS. Just because you (the generic you) have paid in doesn't mean that you are part of the Social Security system. Who knew!!!?? I sure didn't. Our President doesn't really seem to intend to take care of everyone after all. He must have driven by my house and seen my McCain sign in the yard.
All these years later I have the same level of respect for those who administer the SS system, those who carry it out, make policy, create rules and regulations, are in charge all the way to the top of the government. Which is to say that’s not a lot of respect.
perhaps some here really do not understand how tenuous these government programs are. Here’s what happened to me:
* In a routine audit, our state government official who administers Social Security found the foundational document for my workplace was missing from his/her files
* this meant we were not officially members of the Social Security system
* I work for a city agency, a public library
* My library’s attorneys worked on this for a year and got nowhere with these government officials
* the state official deemed we would have to go through the process of becoming members of the Social Security system
* this was quite—- interesting —-since I had paid into this system for nearly 25 years (!) But too bad, so sad according to the State official
* I was not alone in this of course, all of my 150+ colleagues were in the same boat
*The state official came to our workplace and set up a vote for all employees to vote on whether we should join the Social Security system or not
what do you think so far? Think this is untrue or outrageous? I can assure you every bit of this is true.
The vote was held with much campaigning by oldsters. By the way, I was three years from retirement, although was several years from drawing upon SS income. I was not surprised when some of the younger employees who could think for themselves, and they tended to be the IT folks, were skeptical about joining. God knows I probably would’ve been skeptical about voting YES back when I was their age and knowing what I know now.
The vote to join SS passed with a big majority. Whoosh, what a relief, my Social Security participation that had been a fantasy in my head for 25 years became reality.
iris lilies
2-15-25, 11:17pm
I’m sure the above post was very long and boring to read, but I do like to point out The bullshit of our large government bodies when it directly impacts my life. I also have a huge beef with Housing and .urban Development which you poor folks have heard over and over. Anyway.
What I learned in this insane SS situation was that a tiny technicality can blow everything up. The “foundational document “that my library mailed to the Social Security office in the 1950s was perhaps not received by them. Or perhaps they lost it after receiving it. But you know what is magical? My boss opened his safe of materials that had been accumulating there since 1912* and pulled out a copy of that document. Can you believe it? I thought ”Good show!”
Yet our copy was not good enough for the SS people, they wanted the post office receipt record of our mailing in order for it to count.
oy vey. We did not have that Post Office receipt from the 1950’s.
if the vote had NOT passed, the bureaucrats told us the money we had sent Social Security would remain there and would be paid out on schedule when we met retirement age requirements. But we would not be able to add any to our Social Security accounts and of course those would’ve been the higher earning years for all of us, downgrading our payouts.
A final insult from the Social Security bureaucrats was a quip by the state’s employee who walked into our administrative meeting that prefaced voting and said “I’m here from the government and I’m here to help you.” She was joking. I was not amused.
* Among the pile of papers in the safe was a handwritten note from Andrew Carnegie on Skibo Castle stationery congratulating the citizens of St. Louis for the funding of their new library circa 1912. That was very cool.
Sometime in the past few years, the Social Security folks decided on their own to misspell my last name by swapping two letters within it. Producing a last name that is unique on this planet. They changed it on some internal database record that wasn't directly visible from my SS accounts page, where all looked good.
The only immediate impact was that I could no longer E-File with the IRS, as the IRS pulls the name/SS #s directly from the Social Security database when they verify your filing. They pulled from the internal non-visible record, of course.
The IRS spent some months tracking down the source of the error internally before they figured out it was the SS folks causing the issue. The SS folks could not resolve the problem over phone, mail, email, or fax. To fix it, I was told to go into a physical office with all sorts of documentation that I was an actual human being. This visit requires a 1-2 day time expenditure to accomplish, from where I live.
So, I decided to take care of it this year, when I start taking SS payments.
However, last year, the IRS decided that perhaps I was a Bad Person, Who Knows, Maybe Even A Terrorist, because some security/fraud/Homeland Security thing got triggered by the name/SSID mismatch. So they subjected *all* of my investment activity to a 24% backup withholding. Of the transaction amount....
Say, for the sake of argument, I had a share of stock I had bought for $200 a share, and sold it last year for $100. For a $100 loss. The IRS grabbed, before it even hit my hands, $24 of the $100.... (You might imagine if you live off your investments, this might throw a wrench into your life.)
In the 5 quarters it took to get this fixed, they kept *an amazing amount* of money of mine. Stole it...
I did get it back, once the Social Security folks did their thing, and I filed the proper forms/returns with the IRS. After sending in the paperwork, it took them ~6 months to get my funds into my hands.
And they also paid me a "small" amount of interest on the money.
Last week, I received in the mail a 1099-INT, from the IRS, reporting to themselves the $~3221 in interest they paid me. On the amount they stole.
Maddening.
iris lilies
2-16-25, 1:00pm
Good Lord bae, what a giant PITA. Jeez.
well, we all know it is best to stay out of the clutches of any of the “systems “and this means certainly government systems but other systems as well. The welfare system. The Social Security system. The legal system. The health services system.
Sometimes the systems designed to help us help us do not.
one of my friends has rather a lot of money from both family wealth, and then her own entrepreneurial efforts, and is adamant about avoiding the “system “when it comes to health. She has had many major health problems that include cancer, being hit by a car as a pedestrian, appendicitis, etc. and refuses to get health insurance. She negotiates her health bills and pays cash for them.
I was so amused when the hospital social worker visited her at her house after she was hit by a car as a pedestrian and was at home recovering from many broken limbs. The social work earnestly provided her with social welfare options. My friend lives in an extremely modest one bedroom apartment and the social worker had absolutely no idea of the demographic she was dealing with.
some people manage to avoid the systems whenever possible, but most do not, cannot.
flowerseverywhere
2-19-25, 3:48pm
I am fearful for cuts in Social security. My friend is disabled from a chronic disease and worked u til she could. Forced to leave work at 55 she was granted SS disability. Her husband has a 20 year military pension and 20 year government pension plus they get tri-care. They both worked middle class paying jobs, so their income is middle of the scale. it certainly enough to have a middle class life in a modest home. They have been very happy, but now they are very concerned about cuts to any of these sources. They will be OK but with inflation and the price of necessities such as food continuing to rise, they are cutting their spending to the bone in preparation. They were never big spenders, so should be OK. But I can imagine many people are going to have the rug pulled out underneath them. Many people don’t realize how much they depend on federal services in their schools, healthcare, and programs like FEMA.
and guess what? Some of them will have voted for Trump and will wonder what happened.
flowerseverywhere
2-22-25, 9:48am
Time to buckle up
https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/newly-confirmed-commerce-secretary-so-pumped-up-trumps-economic-fiscal-agenda
from Fox News. Howard Lutnick, new commerce secretary, talks about getting rid of the tax scams, like social security, Medicare and Medicaid.
Quote from Lutnick:
""You know Social Security is wrong. You know Medicaid and Medicare are wrong. So he's going to cut a trillion, and then we'll get rid of all these tax scams that hammer against America, and we're going to raise $1 trillion of revenue." "
We will have to sell our house if we lose social security because we can't afford the mortgage and upkeep.
flowerseverywhere
2-23-25, 7:46pm
Quote from Lutnick:
""You know Social Security is wrong. You know Medicaid and Medicare are wrong. So he's going to cut a trillion, and then we'll get rid of all these tax scams that hammer against America, and we're going to raise $1 trillion of revenue." "
We will have to sell our house if we lose social security because we can't afford the mortgage and upkeep.
It would be horrible. People who work to the best of their ability, are citizens, are law abiding shouldn’t become victims of tax cuts for the richest man in the world and his cronies. Why do they need even more money? What could they possibly need? This is so unamerican and cruel.
iris lilies
2-24-25, 5:15am
here’s a random article I ran into and looking up something else. Please notice which president was ready to “cut “Social Security
“…At that time, Obama reportedly offered House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, a similar deal: Reduce Social Security spending from a revised method of calculating cost-of-living increases.”
https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2013/04/05/176351738/obama-riles-his-own-party-with-social-security-offer
It would be horrible. People who work to the best of their ability, are citizens, are law abiding shouldn’t become victims of tax cuts for the richest man in the world and his cronies. Why do they need even more money? What could they possibly need? This is so unamerican and cruel.
Yes, the cruelty of these people is what strikes me the most--Trump had a truly sadistic post on his social media platform mocking the federal workers he has fired. There have already been suicides.
frugal-one
2-24-25, 8:34am
here’s a random article I ran into and looking up something else. Please notice which president was ready to “cut “Social Security
“…At that time, Obama reportedly offered House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, a similar deal: Reduce Social Security spending from a revised method of calculating cost-of-living increases.”
https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2013/04/05/176351738/obama-riles-his-own-party-with-social-security-offer
Reducing cost of living increases are not the same as what is now being discussed!
iris lilies
2-24-25, 9:28am
Reducing cost of living increases are not the same as what is now being discussed!
A trillion in cuts and raise full SS age to 69. Is that what you mean? That’s the summary I saw in a quick Google.
or maybe the cut coming down the road suits you better: an automatic 21% cut to everyone.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/social-security-benefits-cut-insolvency-kamala-harris-donald-trump/
frugal-one
2-25-25, 5:24am
The quote above said Obama was recalculating the cost of living increases. This is not the same as as totally cutting social security.
I've not heard anything for suer on Medicare or SS, however the family does seem bent on reducing Medicaid. One news source said two out of three elderly in long term care facilities rely on Medicaid. I've not seen any mention of where the cuts would be, although some are probably government administrators? I'm surprised the affordable care act hasn't been mentioned yet. It was a Trump favorite whipping boy in his 1.0 version.
My primary care physician not longer accepts Medicare patients due to poor compensation, although he takes some private Advantage insurances. And a specialist I see every year has complained for years about the compensation rates Medicare pays. He actually quoted compensation figures for a routine office visit recently and by my experience the local plumber makes a lot more when you consider staffing and overhead.
I can't imagine big cuts without public outrage.
Take it for what it's worth.
"Martin O’Malley, the former commissioner of the Social Security Administration (SSA), said Monday the recent cuts made by tech billionaire Elon Musk’s (https://thehill.com/people/elon-musk/)Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) at the agency could result in the “collapse” of the Social Security system “within the next 30 to 90 days.”
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5173332-social-security-cuts-risk-collapse/
Take it for what it's worth.
"Martin O’Malley, the former commissioner of the Social Security Administration (SSA), said Monday the recent cuts made by tech billionaire Elon Musk’s (https://thehill.com/people/elon-musk/)Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) at the agency could result in the “collapse” of the Social Security system “within the next 30 to 90 days.”
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5173332-social-security-cuts-risk-collapse/
On Joe Rogan last night, Musk said that "Social Security is the biggest Ponzi scheme of all time.” So what do you think he would do to it if Trump gave him the authority?
At this point, anything is possible.
I tried to submit my application online to begin receiving benefits this last week. The web site was bugged and would not let me complete the application. Attempts to resolve the problem via phone wasted much time, and yielded nothing. I’m not sure I’ll ever get my SS benefits at this point.
Yikes, Iris, these posts were long but not at all boring. I agree 100% we can not trust the government. Problem is, life in the US is set up in a way that we need some of these programs. Taking them away is just insane. A retired person can in no way fund their own health costs. I'm so glad this worked out for you and I'm outraged that you had to scrap and scratch to get what was promised to you all along. Everyone should read your posts and learn from this experience.
flowerseverywhere
3-4-25, 10:43am
I tried to submit my application online to begin receiving benefits this last week. The web site was bugged and would not let me complete the application. Attempts to resolve the problem via phone wasted much time, and yielded nothing. I’m not sure I’ll ever get my SS benefits at this point.
a relative who works at an agency that has only had the probational employees dismissed said the chaos that is going on has severely hindered workflow. All their work has to be reassigned to others. Then some took the fork in the road and resigned. Most were at or over retirement parameters. Then the five accomplishment fiasco took away more time, as managers had to direct their employees what to do. In their case, what they did was up to them. My relative decided to answer the directive. They also are very careful to arrive on time, properly dressed and sit right down and go to work. They are amazed at how many coworkers actually answered by putting comments like “ I showed up”
so the chaos that is going on, transfer of work, manager decisions and figuring out what to do is only making even more inefficiency.
and who is going to suffer? People who need Medicaid, Medicare and social security just to survive. Talk about survival of the fittest and culling the old, infirm and weak. When you have no choice but to contribute to social security, many people who never made much or had bad luck are really relying on benefits.
iris lilies
3-4-25, 11:22am
a relative who works at an agency that has only had the probational employees dismissed said the chaos that is going on has severely hindered workflow. All their work has to be reassigned to others. Then some took the fork in the road and resigned. Most were at or over retirement parameters. Then the five accomplishment fiasco took away more time, as managers had to direct their employees what to do. In their case, what they did was up to them. My relative decided to answer the directive. They also are very careful to arrive on time, properly dressed and sit right down and go to work. They are amazed at how many coworkers actually answered by putting comments like “ I showed up”
so the chaos that is going on, transfer of work, manager decisions and figuring out what to do is only making even more inefficiency.
and who is going to suffer? People who need Medicaid, Medicare and social security just to survive. Talk about survival of the fittest and culling the old, infirm and weak. When you have no choice but to contribute to social security, many people who never made much or had bad luck are really relying on benefits.
I am sorry Federal employees are being intimidated. Showing up on time appropriately dressed and getting right to work seems…ok to me. Is that really burdensome for them? Is there a culture there that has embraced laxity?
While most employees are decent and do a decent job, perhaps a little pressure to straighten up will keep the, for instance, sexually explicit chat conversations off government servers and off the government’s dime.
The federal employees at the National Security Agency engaged in sex talk and much talk about their transgender medical treatments and gender transitions.
This New York Time article covers this fiasco. Keep in mind this is an agency that is supposed to understand security concerns. Yeah, I really want these bozos protecting my country. 100 officers were fired, as they should be.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/28/us/politics/nsa-chat-messages-intelligence-officers-gabbard.html
exerpt from the article:
Long-serving U.S. civil servants said there was little doubt that some of what was posted was inappropriate for any workplace, much less a system in classified networks that is meant for intelligence sharing. At least one of the chat rooms involved was shut down last year, according to a U.S. official.
Here's a post from Reddit yesterday from someone inside SSA:
PREFACE: I am not speaking to the veracity of the information in the instagram post, but am providing the following description for those who don't have an instagram account.
The post consists of screenshot of text. It appears to be an original post from somewhere, and then a comment on that post.
The caption of the post says the following:
"SOS! a whistleblower who works in the federal government just got this info to mne. You guys they are dismantling Social Security. It's happening right now. Like, NOW. We are looking at an interruption in services in 2-3 months. can't say who this person is but trust me they are in a position to know. SPREAD THE WORD! Call script tomorrow.x
The screenshots of the post say the following:
"l am posting this anonymously because I am a fed but wanted to make sure others know about what is going on at SSA. As this not only affects thousands of federal employees but also millions of disabled and/or elderly SSA beneficiaries that rely on social security for their livelihood.
As someone with first hand knowledge, I am witnessing SSA being actively dismantle over the past two weeks. These recent, illegal actions of the new acting commissioner are certain to collapse the system.
Please ring the alarm bells, call your senators and representatives, get your friends and family to do the same, if you have media contacts please use them. Do whatever you can to bring public awareness to this issue.
Social security is highly popular across the aisle and there is very little, if any, public support for it to end. Doge/ Trump know that public opinion is not on their side so they are quietly dismantling piece by piece with the hopes that media coverage will be light, the public will be in the dark, and there won't be any pushback while they destroy America's social safety net.”
The screenshots comment then say the following:
"If you are reaching out to your congressional offices or amplifying in your own circles, here is a list of the various things you can notify them of:
probationary attorney-level decision writers who are responsible for assisting Administrative Law Judges were terminated and at a time when the agency has massive backlogs in cases at the hearing level.
The new acting commissioner gloated about firing 14 employees as an "accomplishment" in his commissioner broadcast to the agency.
The entire Office of Transformation, and its 60+ employees were dissolved. Their whole purpose was to promote agency-wide efficiencies and faster processing times through oversight over SSA systems and use of information technology.
The entire Office of Civil Rights and Equal Opportunity and its 190 employees were dissolved, including the Commissioner and Deputy Commissioner of Civil Rights. OCREO conducts statutorily mandated requirements for employees and members of the public including the reasonable accommodation request process, the public facing discrimination complaint process, and the EEOC employment discrimination complaint process. The National RA Coordinator at OCREO whose position was court ordered was also terminated.
component heads and executives were told to draft plans to slash administrative SSA staff by 50% and to reduce the total SSA workforce by seven to eight thousand
SSA staff were sent an email threatening massive reorganization of SSA followed with significant workforce reduction. The email pressured seasoned employees, even front-line employees, with monetary incentives to resign or take early retirement and threatened to fire employees for cause should they not retire or resign.
Executive staff responsible for overseeing regional field office operations were terminated, I know that one region had all but 3 out 72 staff members terminated and it is very likely that the other ten regions had similar terminations. These regional executive offices oversee hundreds of field offices.
The Acting Commissioner sent out a memo to SSA staff indicating significant restructuring of the agency due a bloated workforce and organization structure,' even though staffing at SSA has been the lowest it's been in 50 years. The reorganization includes taking the 10 regions that SSA's serves and consolidating into 4 regions; and combining multiple independent SSA components togetherin an effort to "downsize" or "streamline". This could potentially lead to massive closures in field offices, a reduction of services, and a significant number of terminations of agency employees.
Terminations are happening swiftly and often late in the day to avoid bringing attention to any media or congressional attention to them
The trauma they are creating for SSA staff is unreal. I am aware of at least three terminated SSA employees who have committed suicide, one of which personally knew"
Then there is a screenshot that appears to be another comment or a message:
" Our previous commissioner predicted that it would take about 2-3 interruption of benefits but by that point it might be too Trump/Musk steal the money out of the trust fund (after using it pay employees the $25k they are dangling in front of us to trying to get us to resign) and then privatize it."
iris lilies
3-4-25, 11:40am
I would like to point out that there could hardly be a story of lax Federal Employees more scandalous than this one of the NSA chat rooms.
Here it has all of the elements of dirty laundry to capture our attention:
* shows what spooks do behind closed doors and we always wondered about that
* taxpayer resources providing the means to mess around, waste time, and insult taxpayers with salacious chat
* subjects covered are SEX and TRANS stuff
*employees going against explicit instructions on appropriate use of digital communication systems
Now, I know ya’ll will tell me this is a distraction. “Iris” you’ll say, “ya focus on this tiny thing when the world is burning.”
And maybe so. But from my point of view The President is attempting a shakeup of the Federal Employee system and this incident has risen to the top as symbolic of what goes on in the Government ranks. I am not terribly concerned that federal workers use email occasionally for personal use. I am mad that these so called intelligence officers show so little frickn intelligence in their extensive misuse of government resources, They are supposed to be the Creme de la Creme.
It really sounds like you are defending the wholesale firings, which I find really hard to understand. The firings are just the first step, as the theft comes next.
iris lilies
3-4-25, 11:49am
It really sounds like you are defending the wholesale firings, which I find really hard to understand. The firings are just the first step, as the theft comes next.
I defend wholesale firings of 100 so called intelligence officers. If that isn’t what you mean by “wholesale” firing, be more specific.
oh, and due to the executive order that dismantled DEI and etc in the federal government, the “LGBTQ Affinity Groups” at the National Security agency were dismantled.*. To this I say, why ever did they exist? I mean, WTF?
* reported in the NYT article I linked above
Wow, I am astounded. Good luck to you.
iris lilies
3-4-25, 12:21pm
Wow, I am astounded. Good luck to you.
do you think these 100 intelligence officers shouldn’t be fired? If so, why?
early morning
3-4-25, 2:10pm
Well, I'm freaked about SS, because that's our largest income source. But I today I got my "pending" lump sum from SS for the WEP abolishment. Not really huge but I'm glad to (almost) have it!
iris lilies
3-4-25, 2:58pm
Well, I'm freaked about SS, because that's our largest income source. But I today I got my "pending" lump sum from SS for the WEP abolishment. Not really huge but I'm glad to (almost) have it!
Tell me about the. WEP program and why it was abolished. I have always been confused by it.
I tried to submit my application online to begin receiving benefits this last week. The web site was bugged and would not let me complete the application. Attempts to resolve the problem via phone wasted much time, and yielded nothing. I’m not sure I’ll ever get my SS benefits at this point.
Updated:
After 8 million hours on the phone, I finally got their system unwedged, and my application to begin receiving benefits at the age of 62 submitted.
We'll see if the checks start arriving in a few months...
flowerseverywhere
3-4-25, 5:11pm
I am sorry Federal employees are being intimidated. Showing up on time appropriately dressed and getting right to work seems…ok to me. Is that really burdensome for them? .
You are seeing what you want to see as you are making assumptions. What I was saying they are trying to do everything to stay under the radar. At every job people have casual conversations, might run a few minutes late and so on. It is not an imposition however in their case enduring the greatest witch hunt they must be extremely careful.
I had a job where an employee was setting up candle parties. Another was caught selling beanie babies online. In non government jobs. Almost everyone I know can tell stories of coworkers who took great advantage of everything they could. Like smoke breaks multiple times a day. Personal phone calls of non emergency situations. However, they are far and few between.
and this slash and burn approach has let go of many good honest employees in the haste to show their power and intimidate.
bae, good to hear you persisted and managed to take the first step.
I am sorry Federal employees are being intimidated. Showing up on time appropriately dressed and getting right to work seems…ok to me. Is that really burdensome for them? Is there a culture there that has embraced laxity?
While most employees are decent and do a decent job, perhaps a little pressure to straighten up will keep the, for instance, sexually explicit chat conversations off government servers and off the government’s dime.
The federal employees at the National Security Agency engaged in sex talk and much talk about their transgender medical treatments and gender transitions.
This New York Time article covers this fiasco. Keep in mind this is an agency that is supposed to understand security concerns. Yeah, I really want these bozos protecting my country. 100 officers were fired, as they should be.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/28/us/politics/nsa-chat-messages-intelligence-officers-gabbard.html
exerpt from the article:
Long-serving U.S. civil servants said there was little doubt that some of what was posted was inappropriate for any workplace, much less a system in classified networks that is meant for intelligence sharing. At least one of the chat rooms involved was shut down last year, according to a U.S. official.
Bunch of malarkey!
I defend wholesale firings of 100 so called intelligence officers. If that isn’t what you mean by “wholesale” firing, be more specific.
oh, and due to the executive order that dismantled DEI and etc in the federal government, the “LGBTQ Affinity Groups” at the National Security agency were dismantled.*. To this I say, why ever did they exist? I mean, WTF?
* reported in the NYT article I linked above
You, obviously, don’t have a clue. What are you listening to or watching!
iris lilies
3-4-25, 6:05pm
You, obviously, don’t have a clue. What are you listening to or watching!
Very specifically, I am talking about the 100 security/intelligence officers fired. Just those 100. Are you defending them?
iris lilies
3-4-25, 6:08pm
Bunch of malarkey!
The New York Time is malarky?
well, haha, yeah maybe, it has been problematic for a long time. :laff:
Very specifically, I am talking about the 100 security/intelligence officers fired. Just those 100. Are you defending them?
Sounds like fake news. In the same vein that all illegals from Mexico are murderers and rapists propaganda.
early morning
3-4-25, 6:57pm
I really am not sure of all the ins and outs of WEP - windfall elimination provision. I just know that the social security that would have been paid out for the 25+ years I worked in the private sector and paid into SS were discounted due to the 20 years I worked as a teacher and in county government. Since that was better paying, my retirement pension from county/state government is primary, and my SS was reduced due to that, by a formula I don't remember. So I was getting less SS than I would have received had I just quit working 25 years ago and started drawing at 65. I am fortunate that I have a pension, though - I'm well aware of that! It just annoyed me that I was getting less SS that what I paid in qualified me for. And it's not much! I'm also grateful for the WEP elimination, for however long it lasts :~)
iris lilies
3-4-25, 7:46pm
Sounds like fake news. In the same vein that all illegals from Mexico are murderers and rapists propaganda.
U serious bro? NYT has more than one article about this, and you think it is “fake news?”
Interesting.
Here are the first two paragraphs from the article in the New York Times, the latest article anyway. I’m not even sure this is a Trump initiative; Chris Ruffo somehow discovered these email messages and I’m not sure how.
“Intelligence officials are continuing to investigate sexually explicit messages that were posted on a government chat tool, the National Security Agency said Friday, exchanges that prompted the nation’s top intelligence official to order the firing of more than 100 officers (https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2025%2F02% 2F25%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2Fgabbard-nsa-firing-explicit-chat.html)this week.
In a statement on Friday, a spokesman for the National Security Agency said the messages were posted on Intelink, a tool that the N.S.A. manages for the entire intelligence community.
“N.S.A. takes the allegations of recently identified misconduct on Intelink very seriously,” the spokesman said in a statement. “Behavior of this type will not be tolerated on this or any other N.S.A.-hosted system.”
iris lilies
3-4-25, 7:51pm
I really am not sure of all the ins and outs of WEP - windfall elimination provision. I just know that the social security that would have been paid out for the 25+ years I worked in the private sector and paid into SS were discounted due to the 20 years I worked as a teacher and in county government. Since that was better paying, my retirement pension from county/state government is primary, and my SS was reduced due to that, by a formula I don't remember. So I was getting less SS than I would have received had I just quit working 25 years ago and started drawing at 65. I am fortunate that I have a pension, though - I'm well aware of that! It just annoyed me that I was getting less SS that what I paid in qualified me for. And it's not much! I'm also grateful for the WEP elimination, for however long it lasts :~)
I never understood who determined which public institutions participated in WEP or how that participation was determined. I worked for public entities and we were not WEP.
Very specifically, I am talking about the 100 security/intelligence officers fired. Just those 100. Are you defending them?
The only thing I got out of the NYT article was 100 people were fired for exchanging sexual explicit messages on a Government chat site. In my experience in zero tolerance corporate world, this could happen in any big organization and not a big deal out of 2 million government workers. It may or may not have anything to do with the remainder and vast majority of people working out of office or in the office, or hard working or slacking. Maybe someone cold point out if this is incorrect. To assume it's fake news is not obvious or without any substance as far as I can tell. The NYT would probably not report it without t least a little fact checking?
iris lilies
3-4-25, 8:19pm
The only thing I got out of the NYT article was 100 people were fired for exchanging sexual explicit messages on a Government chat site. In my experience in zero tolerance corporate world, this could happen in any big organization and not a big deal out of 2 million government workers. It may or may not have anything to do with the remainder and vast majority of people working out of office or in the office, or hard working or slacking. Maybe someone cold point out if this is incorrect. To assume it's fake news is not obvious or without any substance as far as I can tell. The NYT would probably not report it without t least a little fact checking?
Yes, thank you. I cannot grok disbelieving the facts in this article. And also Yes, this N.S.A. employee caper should not be a distraction for the very real and serious event of thousands of federal employees being fired.
Can’t we have two thoughts in our heads at the same time?
1. Badly behaved N.S.A officers need to be canned
2. Thousands of federal employees RIFfed will have unfortunate consequences
That Tybee and frugal-one apparently embrace sex talk on the government dime and on servers tasked with our country’s security is just so odd to me.
early morning
3-4-25, 8:25pm
I never understood who determined which public institutions participated in WEP or how that participation was determined. I worked for public entities and we were not WEP. yeah, I don't understand that either. When you were at the library, did you pay into SS?
Sounds like fake news. In the same vein that all illegals from Mexico are murderers and rapists propaganda.
It's not fake news and has been extensively reported through lots of news outlets, although I suspect Rachel Maddow may have skipped it. As for the "all illegals from Mexico are murderers and rapists propaganda", that is indeed propaganda, no one said that they were although many sources you're probably familiar with did their best to make you think they did. I guess they do that because it appears to work.
iris lilies
3-4-25, 9:42pm
yeah, I don't understand that either. When you were at the library, did you pay into SS?
yes I paid into Social Security and I worked for three separate municipal libraries across multiple states during my career and none of them were affected by WEP.
iris lilies
3-4-25, 9:46pm
It's not fake news and has been extensively reported through lots of news outlets, although I suspect Rachel Maddow may have skipped it. As for the "all illegals from Mexico are murderers and rapists propaganda", that is indeed propaganda, no one said that they were although many sources you're probably familiar with did their best to make you think they did. I guess they do that because it appears to work.
Please show some sympathy for Rachel Maddow because her best friend, the racist Joy Reid, got canned and Rachel’s top staff have been eliminated from her team in a cost cutting measure. They’ve been RIFfed I guess you could say. Cost cutting staff—it is in the air and MSNBC is scrambling to adjust income to expenses.
I am trying to keep a daily gratitude journal as experiment. Experts say it helps ones mental happiness and well being, and I'm not immune to a little doom scrolling these days. If people still believe in science anymore. Normal entries are a little more serious, but today I was grateful not to be married to any likeness to Karoline Leavitt. I dated a similar at one time. She is head and shoulders above Maddow on the unbearably irritability scale. Not to mention veracity.
Please show some sympathy for Rachel Maddow because her best friend, the racist Joy Reid, got canned and Rachel’s top staff have been eliminated from her team in a cost cutting measure.
News organizations are businesses and their daily blocks of programming are the profit centers which keep everything running. When those profit centers lose 50% or more of their customer base and suddenly become cost centers somethings gotta give. In MSNBC's case, maybe they just need to provide a better, more trustworthy product?
frugal-one
3-5-25, 12:49am
It's not fake news and has been extensively reported through lots of news outlets, although I suspect Rachel Maddow may have skipped it. As for the "all illegals from Mexico are murderers and rapists propaganda", that is indeed propaganda, no one said that they were although many sources you're probably familiar with did their best to make you think they did. I guess they do that because it appears to work.
trump just spewed this garbage in his disgusting diatribe tonight! I have to say, it was a sickening presentation of lies! I am sick of his constant chaos and sure it will only get worse!
flowerseverywhere
3-5-25, 5:03am
It's not fake news and has been extensively reported through lots of news outlets, although I suspect Rachel Maddow may have skipped it. As for the "all illegals from Mexico are murderers and rapists propaganda", that is indeed propaganda, no one said that they were although many sources you're probably familiar with did their best to make you think they did. I guess they do that because it appears to work.
▪ Unauthorized immigrants are criminals (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#migrant_crime) [said 575+ times], snakes that bite (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#snake)[35+ times], eating pets (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#eating_the_pets), coming from jails and mental institutions (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#emptying_prisons_jails_mental_instituti ons) [560+ times],causing crime in sanctuary cities (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#sanctuary_cities_crime) [185+ times], and a group of isolated, tragic cases prove they are killing Americans en masse (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#individual_murder_victims) [235+ times].
▪ They are stealing Americans’ public benefits (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#financial_burden) [270+ times] and jobs (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#taking_jobs_from_americans) [155+ times].
▪ He has to build a wall (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#wall) [675+], and mass deportations are acceptablebecause Eisenhower did it (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#eisenhower_deportation) [50+ times].
▪ Unauthorized immigrants are criminals (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#migrant_crime) [said 575+ times], snakes that bite (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#snake)[35+ times], eating pets (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#eating_the_pets), coming from jails and mental institutions (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#emptying_prisons_jails_mental_instituti ons) [560+ times],causing crime in sanctuary cities (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#sanctuary_cities_crime) [185+ times], and a group of isolated, tragic cases prove they are killing Americans en masse (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#individual_murder_victims) [235+ times].
▪ They are stealing Americans’ public benefits (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#financial_burden) [270+ times] and jobs (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#taking_jobs_from_americans) [155+ times].
▪ He has to build a wall (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#wall) [675+], and mass deportations are acceptablebecause Eisenhower did it (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#eisenhower_deportation) [50+ times].
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-
immigrants#skip_anchor (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#skip_anchor)
there are multiple speeches on you tube where he gave speeches saying illegal immigrants are murderers and rapists, are taking our jobs, poisoning our blood, it’s in their genes. Also countries are opening their prisons and emptying their mental institutions and sending the. Haitians are eating your pets.
i am not for people illegally entering the country, or overstaying their visas. I don’t understand sanctuary cities. But I also disagree that claims the media is exaggerating claims when they are tapes of his speeches available on you tube with those phrases coming out of his mouth. Over and over. With the crowd roaring in response.
Trump's speech was for his MAGA supports who have already consumed the cool-aid and have bought into his con job. The NPR fact check pointed out several but said they were too numerous for the space provided. They narrowed the list to 20 things. Hopefully many of the rest of us realize he is a chronic liar who lets anger, fearmongering and vengeance manage his political talk and policy. He cannot be trusted for anything. From my standpoint we really don't need repeated reinforcement to understand that. It's still important to point out his deceptions.
A favorite of mine, but of less importance, was when his press secretary said AP reporters have been denied access to certain discussions because they are lying. The lie she referred to was repeatedly incorrectly calling the Gulf of Mexico rather than America. Her lie about Biden causing the egg shortage is still a whopper.
I emailed Trudeau yesterday and apologized for Trump and his supporters. Probably doesn't matter.
▪ Unauthorized immigrants are criminals (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#migrant_crime) [said 575+ times], snakes that bite (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#snake)[35+ times], eating pets (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#eating_the_pets), coming from jails and mental institutions (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#emptying_prisons_jails_mental_instituti ons) [560+ times],causing crime in sanctuary cities (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#sanctuary_cities_crime) [185+ times], and a group of isolated, tragic cases prove they are killing Americans en masse (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#individual_murder_victims) [235+ times].
▪ They are stealing Americans’ public benefits (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#financial_burden) [270+ times] and jobs (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#taking_jobs_from_americans) [155+ times].
▪ He has to build a wall (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#wall) [675+], and mass deportations are acceptablebecause Eisenhower did it (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#eisenhower_deportation) [50+ times].
▪ Unauthorized immigrants are criminals (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#migrant_crime) [said 575+ times], snakes that bite (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#snake)[35+ times], eating pets (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#eating_the_pets), coming from jails and mental institutions (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#emptying_prisons_jails_mental_instituti ons) [560+ times],causing crime in sanctuary cities (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#sanctuary_cities_crime) [185+ times], and a group of isolated, tragic cases prove they are killing Americans en masse (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#individual_murder_victims) [235+ times].
▪ They are stealing Americans’ public benefits (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#financial_burden) [270+ times] and jobs (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#taking_jobs_from_americans) [155+ times].
▪ He has to build a wall (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#wall) [675+], and mass deportations are acceptablebecause Eisenhower did it (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#eisenhower_deportation) [50+ times].
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-
immigrants#skip_anchor (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/10/21/fact-check-12000-trump-statements-immigrants#skip_anchor)
there are multiple speeches on you tube where he gave speeches saying illegal immigrants are murderers and rapists, are taking our jobs, poisoning our blood, it’s in their genes. Also countries are opening their prisons and emptying their mental institutions and sending the. Haitians are eating your pets.
i am not for people illegally entering the country, or overstaying their visas. I don’t understand sanctuary cities. But I also disagree that claims the media is exaggerating claims when they are tapes of his speeches available on you tube with those phrases coming out of his mouth. Over and over. With the crowd roaring in response.
Thanks for taking the time to back up my observation that no one has said that "all illegals from Mexico are murderers and rapists". I'm sure if it had actually been said it would show up in your research somewhere.
Of course there are multiple examples of murderers and rapists among the millions of illegal immigrants in the country and saying so doesn't mean that "all" fit that description. Claiming otherwise is simply propaganda.
iris lilies
3-5-25, 12:02pm
Well, unauthorized immigrants ARE criminals, technically speaking. So that would be ALL illegal immigrants are criminals. They are breaking an immigration law. Some people put weight on that technicality, some don’t.
I am one who puts weight on it.
Well, unauthorized immigrants ARE criminals, technically speaking. So that would be ALL illegal immigrants are criminals. They are breaking an immigration law. Some people put weight on that technicality, some don’t.
I am one who puts weight on it.
What would you propose as a solution?
I love Terry Savage. She’s my fave financial guru. Talking about recession today in her column and on the radio.
https://www.terrysavage.com/recession/
I’m not taking any vacations this year except maybe a regional diving weekend. Stashing cash. Cancelled 401K contributions for a bit to pile up more cash.
iris lilies
3-5-25, 2:49pm
What would you propose as a solution?
There is not “a “solution. And why you expect me to solve it is beyond me.
However, these are the efforts that interest me:
some deportation as is now taking place, more than in the previous administration, is one tactic.
The big loud anti-illegal immigration message coming from the White House has been effective in naturally reducing the number of illegal immigrants who cross the border — illegally. the numbers being reported are the lowest in a decade.
I don’t understand why the programs for temporary low skilled workers haven’t been expanded because we need those workers. So, I would like to know more about that, but think an expansion of the number of people let into our country legally to pick strawberries would be a good thing. Americans are not gonna pick their own strawberries.
Reduce the number of Temporary Documents handed out, if I understand that program correctly. I don’t see that as a conflict with the above, but perhaps I don’t understand the two different programs.
I would like to talk about what services illegal immigrants are given in our country. After that conversation I might not want to see any changes but I sure would like to know more about taxpayer dollars going to those who are here illegally. I don’t understand how those with illegal work papers are contributing to Social Security, etc., and I would like to understand that. If you’re undocumented, how do you contribute to Social Security? Yet we’re told time and time again that they do contribute to the system. I don’t understand that.
early morning
3-5-25, 3:10pm
They contribute to the system because they are working with fake or stolen documents, sometimes set up by employers. The SS taxes are taken from their wages and reported under the fake or stolen SS number. So - money in. But the worker can't draw SS, because they would likely be discovered as using fake docs at that point. So, no money out. Or money going in is credited to someone's real account, so they, not the actual worker, are credited with the money paid in. So, yes, they contribute to the system with no expectation of ever drawing from it. People working under the table do not pay into the system, whether they are illegal or not.
I do not understand the benefits that people living here illegally receive, either.
I don't think deporting those here illegally, if it's the numbers are truly 10 or 15 million, is possible, practical or economic. Which is the only thing on Trump's table right now and another of his fantasies. In my opinion, the only solution is to somehow provide a legal alternative to some or all of these people either by a better system of work permits, exceptions, or a path to citizenship. It's not just the strawberry pickers, but college students, families who have lived here for more than one generation, and skilled professionals. The fault probably goes back a few presidents and has only gotten worse because of some sort of political grid lock or partisan quibbling. I don't see any solution being proposed right now that is even close to addressing the multitudes of "criminals" living here.
Denver's mayor along with the other mayors of sanctuary cities are before congress as we speak and there will probably be a summary to peruse. One of the mayors said that if government truly wants to make America safe, stop cutting Medicaid, VA funds, cancer research, and focus on gun reform. I suspect they are being verbally abused by Boebert, Greene, and Jordan who all have a talent for twisting the facts and will accuse them of illegally harboring illegal immigrants. The mayors will claim they are following Federal and state laws and merely not providing assistance to the Feds to enforce federal law. There is probably certaininstances of EO's not superseding state or local laws and I can picture it ending up in courts, as things go these days.
Reagan’s amnesty for illegals in the 80s just kicked the can down the road.
flowerseverywhere
3-5-25, 10:45pm
Thanks for taking the time to back up my observation that no one has said that "all illegals from Mexico are murderers and rapists". I'm sure if it had actually been said it would show up in your research somewhere.
Of course there are multiple examples of murderers and rapists among the millions of illegal immigrants in the country and saying so doesn't mean that "all" fit that description. Claiming otherwise is simply propaganda.
thank goodness. Because it’s ok to say they are eating pets, killing citizens en masse, are coming from jails and mental institutions I guess.
iris lilies
3-5-25, 11:44pm
They contribute to the system because they are working with fake or stolen documents, sometimes set up by employers. The SS taxes are taken from their wages and reported under the fake or stolen SS number. So - money in. But the worker can't draw SS, because they would likely be discovered as using fake docs at that point. So, no money out. Or money going in is credited to someone's real account, so they, not the actual worker, are credited with the money paid in. So, yes, they contribute to the system with no expectation of ever drawing from it. People working under the table do not pay into the system, whether they are illegal or not.
I figured there was a lot of under the table work going on, but it’s shocking to me that false documents are so plentiful.
and if there’s so many of these illegal workers paying into Social Security accounts that are not their own, what do the citizens think who see this money coming into their account and it’s not their contributions? I can’t grab that. Also, you would think there are ways to run software to identify some of these accounts that are reporting to full-time jobs. Or maybe the false documents are mostly on dead people and those Social Security contributions are going into dead people’s accounts, never to be claimed.
But I also don’t understand why, if a illegal immigrant is successfully using a dead person’s Social Security account for many years he doesn’t claim the benefits. I can’t help but think some of these benefits are claimed.
Well, unauthorized immigrants ARE criminals, technically speaking. So that would be ALL illegal immigrants are criminals. They are breaking an immigration law. Some people put weight on that technicality, some don’t.
I am one who puts weight on it.
Actually, under your argument, only some unauthorized immigrants are criminals. To enter illegally is considered a crime. If they entered legally and overstayed, which according to a 2006 study was 45% of this population, then it is a civil and not a criminal matter:
"Many foreign nationals, however, enter the country legally every day on valid work or travel visas, and end up overstaying for a variety of reasons.But that’s not a violation of federal criminal law – it’s a civil violation that gets handled in immigration court proceedings."
Are undocumented immigrants committing a crime? Not necessarily | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/24/politics/undocumented-immigrants-not-necessarily-criminal/index.html)
early morning
3-6-25, 10:41am
and if there’s so many of these illegal workers paying into Social Security accounts that are not their own, what do the citizens think who see this money coming into their account and it’s not their contributions? I can’t grab that. Also, you would think there are ways to run software to identify some of these accounts that are reporting to full-time jobs. Or maybe the false documents are mostly on dead people and those Social Security contributions are going into dead people’s accounts, never to be claimed.
Well, lots of people I know don't check their SS accounts. All of my BILs were surprised to know they COULD check their SS accounts prior to actually filing, and would have had no idea how much they had, or had not, paid in. People who work low-level jobs and job-hop a lot aren't always good at tracking financial data. So there's that, in some cases. Drawing benefits would mean you know what the SS# you are working under actually IS. From what I've heard, many of the workers with illegal papers don't actually HAVE the papers, those are held by the people who bring them in and have them working. That's probably more under the human trafficking's portion of illegal immigration, though, rather than those who come here voluntarily and mostly on their own.
Many foreign nationals, however, enter the country legally every day on valid work or travel visas, and end up overstaying for a variety of reasons. But that’s not a violation of federal criminal law – it’s a civil violation that gets handled in immigration court proceedings."
Ah, so THAT'S why Musk isn't considered a "criminal" then.
iris lilies
3-6-25, 12:16pm
Actually, under your argument, only some unauthorized immigrants are criminals. To enter illegally is considered a crime. If they entered legally and overstayed, which according to a 2006 study was 45% of this population, then it is a civil and not a criminal matter:
"Many foreign nationals, however, enter the country legally every day on valid work or travel visas, and end up overstaying for a variety of reasons.But that’s not a violation of federal criminal law – it’s a civil violation that gets handled in immigration court proceedings."
Are undocumented immigrants committing a crime? Not necessarily | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/24/politics/undocumented-immigrants-not-necessarily-criminal/index.html)
I call this a distinction without a difference. But OK, it is a misdemeanor in civil court and not a criminal court act.
Once those staying in the U.S. attempt to work, seems to me they are acting illegally by participating in identity theft or using other falsified work papers, breaking federal laws. Or they are working under the table, breaking tax laws by not reporting their income. And etc.
I was horrified to learn that Trump is revoking legal status to 240,000 Ukranian immigrants:
Trump plans to revoke legal status of Ukrainians who fled to US, sources say (usatoday.com) (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/03/06/trump-ukrainian-legal-status-deportations/81729204007/)
I was just reading on Wallstreetbets about a lawyer who works with Ukranian clients who are in this group and says they are investing in the US, starting successful businesses, etc., and he can't understand why this is happening.
gimmethesimplelife
3-6-25, 1:00pm
Realistically, for those who are financially and otherwise able to, there is no real reason to remain in the United States long term. For those who were able to buy into real estate some time ago and enjoy the run up over the last several years, numerous developing countries offer retirement visas, and some of these visas (not in every country, though, know your foreign immigration laws!) can lead to the increased human rights of a passport. If for no other reason, why exactly would anyone work against themselves by subjecting themselves to the cost and access and illegal claims denial issues which are the hallmark of US health care and substandard United States citizenship when such easier access to affordable health care is available in numerous other countries, many of these countries offering much saner costs of livings in other areas, too? For what purpose, for what gain would a person continue to subject themselves to this?
If you need permission to flee - you have mine. I consider fleeing as this point the hallmark of an adult - the ability to see things as they really are and make the necessary cold blooded business decisions in response. Best wishes to all as we navigate the unacceptable utter nightmare that the United States has become. Rob
I was horrified to learn that Trump is revoking legal status to 240,000 Ukranian immigrants:
Trump plans to revoke legal status of Ukrainians who fled to US, sources say (usatoday.com) (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/03/06/trump-ukrainian-legal-status-deportations/81729204007/)
I was just reading on Wallstreetbets about a lawyer who works with Ukranian clients who are in this group and says they are investing in the US, starting successful businesses, etc., and he can't understand why this is happening.
I researched this today and discovered that there is indeed a plan to revoke legal status for approximately 1.8 million migrants who entered the country in the last several years under a previous administration's parole program, although I can't find a reference to Ukranians in particular outside the USA Today piece or other sites which simply picked it up and ran with it without context or additional reporting.
The current administration says the story you linked to is fake news. Perhaps that's because the story is framed in such a way to imply that Ukranians are being singled out, making it an obvious propaganda piece, or perhaps not. I guess time will tell.
I researched this today and discovered that there is indeed a plan to revoke legal status for approximately 1.8 million migrants who entered the country in the last several years under a previous administration's parole program, although I can't find a reference to Ukranians in particular outside the USA Today piece or other sites which simply picked it up and ran with it without context or additional reporting.
The current administration says the story you linked to is fake news. Perhaps that's because the story is framed in such a way to imply that Ukranians are being singled out, making it an obvious propaganda piece, or perhaps not. I guess time will tell.
Here's another story about it.
Trump plans to revoke legal status for hundreds of thousands Ukrainians who fled Russian invasion (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-plans-to-revoke-legal-status-for-hundreds-of-thousands-ukrainians-who-fled-russian-invasion/ar-AA1AoT8T?ocid=BingNewsSerp)
It contains what you said, that Leavitt claims this is fake news. But she is the person who said that reporters were "lying" because they called the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of Mexico and not the Gulf of America.
It showed up in a number of main stream media sources when I did a search. The common impression I got was that it is a threat or he's considering it, but not necessary a sure thing. Could just be another of the many trump bluffs going around? That's how he works.
iris lilies
3-7-25, 12:16am
It showed up in a number of main stream media sources when I did a search. The common impression I got was that it is a threat or he's considering it, but not necessary a sure thing. Could just be another of the many trump bluffs going around? That's how he works.
yes, much bluffing and posturing, tools in the chaos kit. It is best to “choose reality” as Dr. John Delony would advise, and look at what did actually take place rather than awfulizing about what COULD happen because there is enough reality to give worry.
littlebittybobby
3-8-25, 4:08am
okay---thing is---we need ta be selective on who is admitted to the USA. Just like up there in Canada, where no sane person would want to live, anyway(it's too cold) . But yeah--I'm 100% with Ann Coulter--NO provisional immigrant who commits a felony should be tolerated! Who needs em? we already GOT enough criminals! See? Try to UN-brainwash yourself from that libtard stuff. Hope that helps you some.
iris lilies
3-11-25, 10:08pm
yeah, I don't understand that either. When you were at the library, did you pay into SS?
they are discussing WEP over at Mr.Money Mustache forums and someone who sounds knowledgeable says the elimination of WEP will add 1% to the burden of Social Security payout, accelerating the emptying of that fund.
Congress last term voted for this. I don’t know why. The thought processes of our financial genius overlords in Congress continue to mystify me.
Perhaps those Congress people don’t like Social Security and want to be rid of it altogether.
ToomuchStuff
3-11-25, 10:45pm
Perhaps those Congress people don’t like Social Security and want to be rid of it altogether.
It would certainly make things interesting as more people in the range to get it, decide to supplement their income, via running for house or senate.
littlebittybobby
3-12-25, 1:26pm
okay----there should be no prollem with sending illegals immiogrants backta Ukrainia. After all---it is a VERY nice place, and you kidses' favorite country! But yeah---suppose a Ukrainian starts up a business, and making LOTS o' money. Well---there's no reason they can't run it from home in Ukrainia, and make the trip over here, once in awhile, to check on things. Yup.
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