View Full Version : The Current Situation
How are you managing through the Current Situation?
There is a lot of uncertainty, and huge volatility in the markets. Tariff/trade wars. Possibilities of war. Yada yada yada.
How do you maintain your Simple Life investing strategy during this time, and hedge against this level of uncertainty?
My steps so far:
-I have 50%+ of my assets overseas now, in non-USD accounts
- I have three different housing solutions overseas, UK, Ireland, Thailand.
- I have reduced discretionary spending to zero
- I am prepared to flee my US location on 15 minutes notice, and can be in London in 12 hours
- I am aggressively hedging spreads on the VIX to preserve my US assets
- I have 3 different visa solutions
- My mid-80s parents are moving to places where they will be safe and have better access to reliable medical care
- I am moving to liquidate the family compound the parents live on ASAP after they have no use of it, and turning the revenue from the property sale into tangible precious metals
- I can get by in many languages. French, German, Spanish, Italian, Norwegian, Icelandic, Japanese, Greek, Latin, Pitkern, Klallam, Lummi, Welsh, Irish. I'm working on Pirahã but it seems of limited utility.
I am incredibly risk-averse.
We will stay in place. Currently in an urban area walkable to almost everything.
No debt and already have a significant cash position.
Monthly expenses already extremely low.
Looking forward does not give us a comfortable feeling and there will be so many that are going to hurt.
I have always had a suspicion that you, bae, having had Friends In High Places, have had more insight about the political climate than you are willing to disclose, but your radical efforts to protect yourself and your family suggests that something out there truly is worth all the effort.
As for me, my mantra is something like "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"--financially speaking. I have very little in the stock market. I did have some money in it until 2008 wiped me out. So I have a fraction of what I did have. If those few bucks evaporate, well, BTDT. I actually did consider pulling it out, but not now that it's down so far, that's for sure.
But I am cutting discretionary spending, like you. I have not considered exUS getaways. I am only 20 miles from the Canadian border, so if things got really bad the family could do a Sound of Music coda and make a break for it there, but frankly, it's very unlikely.
I have considered going darker on the internet, using proton mail and VPN, but am not completely there yet.
That's basically it, other than opening the news and doing a "read it and weep" loop.
All I have done so far is to change my allocation so that I only have about 20% in stocks. I have looked into how to open a bank account in Canada, but that's as far as I have gotten. Am feeling really paralyzed right now.
happystuff
3-11-25, 8:43am
I think I'm more like sweetana3 and catherine at this point. Still looking for a place to downsize to that won't take us further away from family and our family/friends support system. No debt - so far, and trying to cut all spending. If we have to, we can stay in place and work to stay in this house. While not my first choice, it would be doable.
I have both IRA and 401K in target date funds. Current stock allocation is about 65%. I need to see about moving some of that out. I’m just going between work, church, and home. Diving will just be locally. Any vacations I’d been considering are cancelled. I buy a few books but that’s it other than the essentials. Pretty much stocked up like I was during Covid. I’ve got a good support system at my church. Rent is dirt cheap and landlord has said it will remain cheap. I have a new car loan from last summer. Plugging away at it with regular payments. Throwing all cash in savings.
How do you maintain your Simple Life investing strategy during this time, and hedge against this level of uncertainty?
I have always been a very risk averse person with finances and have a relatively small percent of savings invested in equities. Probably something like 100 minus my age, which is a conservative number most advisers I've run across who are too young to remember the financial crisis of 2007 say is a missed opportunity. That said, the traditionally safe havens have lost some of their safety. There has been talk of the FDIC being eliminated or absorbed by the Treasury Dept., which I find very disturbing. I have no investments overseas and assume the US economy is still the gold standard for a prospering nation, and how the US goes, so goes the world.
As long as medical services remain available and affordable through insurances, Medicare, etc. I think my personal risk is low, based on a strong nest egg, conservative savings, and a simple life style. However it's not a zero risk and greater that a year ago when we had a strong economy and low inflation. I have larger concerns for the US and global economy. Until more dire indicators show up, I'm am not in the recession camp quite yet, but more like an economic slow down.
From a political aspect, Americans can pollute to an embarrassing degree, hire and fire many, ignore decaying infrastructure, and cut back on government cervices, but once things start hitting peoples wallets in terms of inflation on consumables and energy and the stock market starts to fail, they will demand changes.
I have a vegetable garden and can bicycle most places I need to be if necessary.
In the case of a global or civil war, all bets ore off. I have some ammunition and will keep the frig stocked with beer.
I have always had a suspicion that you, bae, having had Friends In High Places, have had more insight about the political climate than you are willing to disclose, but your radical efforts to protect yourself and your family suggests that something out there truly is worth all the effort.
As for me, my mantra is something like "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"--financially speaking. I have very little in the stock market. I did have some money in it until 2008 wiped me out. So I have a fraction of what I did have. If those few bucks evaporate, well, BTDT. I actually did consider pulling it out, but not now that it's down so far, that's for sure.
But I am cutting discretionary spending, like you. I have not considered exUS getaways. I am only 20 miles from the Canadian border, so if things got really bad the family could do a Sound of Music coda and make a break for it there, but frankly, it's very unlikely.
I have considered going darker on the internet, using proton mail and VPN, but am not completely there yet.
That's basically it, other than opening the news and doing a "read it and weep" loop.
Move any non-email communication to Signal.
flowerseverywhere
3-11-25, 10:04am
Your post threw me off, Bae, as you are not one to be rash or panic. My first thought was why would anyone leave your isolated paradise? But I’m not paying much attention trying to keep my sanity. Besides more complete preps as prices rise, unemployment rises and social safety nets are cut. Going to be a lot of people hurting in a big way.
sounds like you have great options. Also, there are quite a few countries that will put you on a path to citizenship if you invest enough money in an approved investment.
i can’t conceive of a scenario where we would get up and move at our advanced age. I’m hoping you can elaborate on what types of scenarios that could possibly make you leave.its really a big deal to leave your country.
HappyHiker
3-11-25, 10:37am
Being of modest means, my DH and I are watching things develop. We've no incentive to flee our home or community because this is where our hearts lie.
Sure, we have concern and some fear, but I guess we also have a "Go down with the ship" kind of mentality...since we're of "a certain age" and unlike Bae, speak no other languages, and have no housing options in other countries, our options, even should we feel the need to flee, are rather limited.
I've never lived my life in a fear-based manner, and we've ridden out several recessions so suspect we'll get through another okay.
Community has always been more important to my sense of well-being than cash, so here we stay--surrounded by the best neighbors and friends...
Your post threw me off, Bae, as you are not one to be rash or panic. My first thought was why would anyone leave your isolated paradise? But I’m not paying much attention trying to keep my sanity. Besides more complete preps as prices rise, unemployment rises and social safety nets are cut. Going to be a lot of people hurting in a big way.
sounds like you have great options. Also, there are quite a few countries that will put you on a path to citizenship if you invest enough money in an approved investment.
i can’t conceive of a scenario where we would get up and move at our advanced age. I’m hoping you can elaborate on what types of scenarios that could possibly make you leave.its really a big deal to leave your country.
Remember Bae’s daughter is in the UK.
i can’t conceive of a scenario where we would get up and move at our advanced age. I’m hoping you can elaborate on what types of scenarios that could possibly make you leave.its really a big deal to leave your country.
Well, as I mentioned, I am risk-averse. I have been living off managing my investments for decades now, since my mid-30s. I just filed to begin receiving my Social Security last week. I don't really have a long enough investing timeframe to recover from a major crash, so I have to hedge a bit.
As I also mentioned, my parents are about to move in with other relatives, far closer to the medical care they are beginning to need at their age. They no longer will need me to be here full time to care for them.
My beloved dog has 0-12 months left in him, he is quite old for his breed, blind, and has other issues.
My partner is retiring in 1-3 years.
My daughter already lives overseas, in the UK, and has told me that she will not be returning to the USA to live, ever.
So, this is a combination of my life simplifying, a desire to live near my daughter, and risk management.
The most likely outcome is that I will remain living happily here, and simply visit my daughter half the year or so. But I'm preparing for the need to do more than that, if things get too weird. I mean, I live right on the Canadian border (as in, my house is adjacent to it, I can row a boat to Canada), and if for some insane reason we get more grumpy with Canada, I'm not sure I want to be here. And if the stock market goes BOOM for a decade, I'd like to be positioned so that I can survive that happily.
I don't have any specific information about alien invasions or zombie uprisings or impending asteroid impacts. (The noticeable earthquake we had a couple weeks ago with the epicenter 4 miles from my house was interesting though...)
happystuff
3-11-25, 1:45pm
Some simplistic questions...
Lots of folks are saying they are saving more and more, so my question is where? Are folks saving actual, physical cash - and if so, how much and where? Or just putting as much as possible into savings account(s) and hoping banks don't go belly-up?
Edited to answer my own questions: right now we have been socking a lot away into the savings account. Have some cash on hand, but not of any significant amount; about two weeks worth of cash-needs on hand.
I have a big bank savings account connected to big bank checking account. I have a nice stash there. I’ve been stashing the rest in my high held savings account with Vanguard. I’m still building my emergency fund after paying off credit card debt at the end of the year.
I need to get in the habit of keeping cash on hand. I don’t usually have any. I’m the queen of Apple Pay.
iris lilies
3-11-25, 3:47pm
I don’t know how to move around investments since I don’t know what I’m reacting to exactly.
I will probably sit with my money where it is as I’ve done in past decades of financial instability in the markets. I will pretty much ignore any opportunities for money to be made since I won’t be watching for those opportunities and know about them.
I will probably lose some money in these events as I have in the past. I will probably regret those losses as I have in the past.
in other words, carry on as usual.
iris lilies
3-11-25, 3:52pm
Bae, I know one family who waited around for their family dog to die before they moved to Costa Rica. yeah, the pets are something to consider.
Bae are your parents out of this country then?
are you going to sell your giant house even if maintaining a place on your island? You talked about the square footage and that’s really quite a big house. I know you have collections and equipment and tools and etc. so what to do with that stuff would be a dilemma.
I’m a bit of a contrarian. If the current situation leads to significant panic selling, I’ll move a bit more into equities. I can’t remember who it was that said recessions serve to return stocks to their rightful owners.
flowerseverywhere
3-13-25, 7:34am
Bae, I wish you good luck. But I don’t think luck will play much of a role in your case as careful preps will.
I am fascinated with the history of the UK. The history and archeology shows amazing cultures thousands of years BC. Plus the easy access to the continent. A whole realm of possibilities opening up for you. Exciting adventures.
we are not making big financial moves right now. As the years go by we have gradually moved into more stable investments. No debt, many social contacts and a one floor zero entry house is what we have worked to help us as we age. I can do little to resolve any political chaos except help my fellow Americans around me.
early morning
3-13-25, 8:18am
Being as we have no financial moves to make, big or small, lol, we'll just have to try to ride out whatever comes. I KNEW it was a mistake to have been born into a working class family! :D We are stocking up as we can, making some needed repairs to the house, etc. I would LOVE to get a woodstove but I can't see quite how/where we could fit one in safely. May put out in a small garden, although I hate gardening. But if things go that far south, water will be a more immediate concern, as we're on a municipal system. So we'll just have to wait and see, I guess! How's that for a life-plan - cross our fingers, wait and see? After carefully husbanding our meagre resources for years, *sigh* We have no debt, so there is that. And we know how to get by on very little. DH's health is my largest concern, I'm pretty healthy overall. But one never knows.
happystuff
3-13-25, 9:15am
I'm still hoping to downsize. Just getting a smaller footprint all around. That is where the savings will go, should we find something. Time will tell.
The IRA DH inherited a year ago was half invested in Nvidia stock which did quite well...until it didn't. I kept telling DH we need to move that around but he has little interest in finances. We are OK financially but I worry quite a bit about growing old in this house we find ourselves in. This does not seem like a good time to try one more time to find a more appropriate house.
I like payday when I can move a nice chunk from paycheck into savings.
happystuff
3-14-25, 9:32am
I like payday when I can move a nice chunk from paycheck into savings.
I totally agree. It's a great feeling!
I’m a bit of a contrarian. If the current situation leads to significant panic selling, I’ll move a bit more into equities. I can’t remember who it was that said recessions serve to return stocks to their rightful owners.
The question can become, how long will it take after a recession for the market to return to the mean and how low can it go.
Do you think Trump is pulling the biggest Big Short ever? I just feel he's playing us all.
I am reminded of the SNL skit line "look what I can do."
Do you think Trump is pulling the biggest Big Short ever? I just feel he's playing us all.
I have thought that same thing. There are probably people on the inside who could make a few more million if they could know the next move for tariffs or other shock Trump announcements.
The evening news had a feature on common grocery store products that would see price increases. It's probably futile to predict what's next and for how long, but I've at least thought about getting a large bottle of olive oil and sticking a couple of pounds of coffee in the freezer this week. They already seem expensive, but stockpiling may not make that big a difference. I think a lot of common prescription medicines come from India.
Pharmaceuticals are not included in the reciprocal tariffs.
Do you think Trump is pulling the biggest Big Short ever? I just feel he's playing us all.
Well, the Dow was down almost 1700 points yesterday. Pre-market futures are -1050.
So what do you think?
Well, another super-duper day in the stock market!
I'm sure this is all fine and part of the super genius plan...
Bae, I know one family who waited around for their family dog to die before they moved to Costa Rica. yeah, the pets are something to consider.
Bae are your parents out of this country then?
I expect my loyal-but-elderly Hound has 1-12 months left in him.
My mother is moving into a house she just purchased, across the street from my sister and her husband, in a retirement community in another state, and just a few miles from the medical care she needs/anticipates needing. She'll be moving away from here this fall, it's too inconvenient for her to access medical care, and the costs here of everything are going through the roof.
My Dad is moving sometime this summer/fall, back to Palm Springs where he moved here from, also to be closer to medical care and many of his friends.
Neither is particularly keen on, or able to, move overseas at this point.
As to the houses here, I'll likely sell or rent the compound my parents live in, it's way too much capital sitting in a flood/earthquake zone for my long-term happiness. I don't think I'll move into it.
The house I currently live in - open question. I'd hate to move, if I did I would take only minimal essentials. It's time to brutally downsize the various "things" cluttering up my life. Of the houses here, this is the one my daughter wants me to keep, but she has also indicated no desire to ever live in the USA again, so her wishes for retaining the place aren't a huge priority.
Who knows how things will go at this point, it's a delight to look at the news every day.
are you going to sell your giant house even if maintaining a place on your island? You talked about the square footage and that’s really quite a big house. I know you have collections and equipment and tools and etc. so what to do with that stuff would be a dilemma.[/QUOTE]
We are still looking to downsize, but are not having much luck at all. Still decluttering this house, so that's at least one good thing.
We have wanted to downsize/move for five years now but it seems to be one thing after the other throwing up roadblocks. Covid followed by real estate bidding wars and now who knows? Prices are still very high in areas we might consider. Of course there are cheap homes in less desirable areas but with older age comes a need to be close to basic services/options. Aso limited by preferring to live in a non HOA neighborhood. There are many days when we think we'll just stay here and stop obsessing about moving. Feeling grateful that our present house is at least paid for and that property taxes are low.
pinkytoe, we set the same limit and it is SO HARD finding a place that has no HOA or lot rental fees! Sigh....
iris lilies
4-4-25, 5:06pm
I am so puzzled by the both of you mentioning HOA. in my part of the country, HOA’s only exist to control condominium complexes. But apparently some suburban developments, not even “new” have HOA’s where you are? That is just so weird to me.
I am so puzzled by the both of you mentioning HOA. in my part of the country, HOA’s only exist to control condominium complexes. But apparently some suburban developments, not even “new” have HOA’s where you are? That is just so weird to me.
"Communities" now have HOAs. We've even seen vacant lots of land that are affordable and we would actually be able to afford to build/move a manufactured home onto, but it is part of an HOA. And HOAs are like rent - they are often raised.
My house is part of a HOA.
When I first moved here, it was in charge of our water system, our roads, our mail station, maintenance of some community-owned open space, our stormwater system, and had some minor design review powers for construction (verifying setbacks, no style guides).
I've been on the board of the HOA for years now, and "simplified" things. It now only maintains the roads/stormwater system, maintains the community open space, maintains the mail station, and does Firewise wildfire safety work on the shared lands/spaces while providing support for the private landowners to do the same. We sold off the water system to a private water company, which has saved us a fortune in maintenance and improved the reliability. The profits from the sale paid to have fiber optic networking brought all along our community road network, which has been wonderful.
We are rewriting our HOA governing documents this year to further simplify things, and to clarify that the HOA has very very little power.
I believe your HOA is a happy enigma, bae! YAY!
early morning
4-4-25, 5:25pm
There are HOAs in a few neighborhoods around here. The problem is that they are only as good as the governing board, which is subject to change over time. Despite bae's board clarifying that it has very very limited powers, another set of board members somewhere down the line can again rewrite the governing documents and seize much more power. (sound familiar, lol?) Honestly, all it takes is a couple power-crazed people, and you're off to the races. Bae, your HOA sounds immensely sensible, and of real use to the membership. I really hope it stays that way after you decamp to, ah, where-ever. >8)
There are HOAs in a few neighborhoods around here. The problem is that they are only as good as the governing board, which is subject to change over time. Despite bae's board clarifying that it has very very limited powers, another set of board members somewhere down the line can again rewrite the governing documents and seize much more power. (sound familiar, lol?) Honestly, all it takes is a couple power-crazed people, and you're off to the races. Bae, your HOA sounds immensely sensible, and of real use to the membership. I really hope it stays that way after you decamp to, ah, where-ever. >8)
Luckily, it is nearly impossible to change our HOA rules in any way detrimental to property rights. The founding documents give it very little power to begin with, and to change them requires a huge majority of owners to agree, not just the Board members. We've changed the documents once, to correct a pile of errors and simplify things. New WA State law requires a further simplification, as the existing documents no longer are relevant in many ways. So our upcoming revision will be removing things.
Every few years people move here from places with heavyweight HOAs, and try to get us to increase restrictions. It then gets pointed out to them that, well, we can't really. I got on the board years ago to explain this to the previous board, which had been hijacked by folks who wanted to impose aesthetic standards, which was far outside the powers granted.
We looked at some 55+ places and the book of rules was very off-putting. Small list of approved plants. paint colors, what you are allowed to have in your backyard - stuff like that. I guess some like the uniformity and the gated "security." DDs house near Austin is in a huge gated "master-planned" community with pools, tennis court and clubhouse. They pay hundreds a month in HOA fees for the privilege which seems crazy to me.
At this point in my life I am not interested in living in any place with HOA fees, mainly because I don't see the value. Maybe that will change as I get older.
iris lilies
4-4-25, 10:04pm
I’m probably just not educated about HOA‘s in my region. I suppose there are plenty of suburbia places that have HOAs because I can think of some that have swimming pools and community centers, so those would be places maintained by HOA fees.
My inner city urban neighborhood had a private swimming pool that was tucked away where very few knew it existed, and alongside that tennis courts. But those were maintained by Memberships. The number of those memberships were limited, and there was a long waiting list to get in.
littlebittybobby
4-5-25, 12:44am
okay---let me explain something to you kids---simply put, HOAS are like Sharia Law. Think of it that way. Or: Living at home with Mom & Dad. There ya go. Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.
iris lilies
4-5-25, 9:06am
okay---let me explain something to you kids---simply put, HOAS are like Sharia Law. Think of it that way. Or: Living at home with Mom & Dad. There ya go. Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.
That’s kinda funny, Bobby. Living with Mom & Dad, ok.
Still, there is one neighbor on every block who defines “Dad needs to have a talk/box his ears” about property maintenance. We all have them. Maybe *you* are that person on your block.
We gritch about certain neighbor's property but still prefer that over an HOA. When a neighbor has six vehicles and four are parked in the street, that gets me a bit perturbed.
Yeah, in my neighborhood of nine homes with shared property, we mostly just ask the neighbors.. when we sited our camper, we asked our next door neighbor "we can't decide whether to put it here (alongside the neighbor's property line) or over there (on the other side of our house. He said, "I'd put it here" (on the side between our houses). That was our preference, but the way we asked the question we were able to determine whether or not he would have a problem having a camper as a barrier between us.
All of us are pretty good about being respectfully honest with each other, which I realize is a blessing.
Depending on the price of phones whenever I eventually replace my current iPhone 15 Pro, I may buy refurb directly from Apple or Best Buy (the Geek Squad can have good deals). I can definitely replace battery in current phone if I have to, to make phone last longer.
littlebittybobby
4-5-25, 2:33pm
That’s kinda funny, Bobby. Living with Mom & Dad, ok.
Still, there is one neighbor on every block who defines “Dad needs to have a talk/box his ears” about property maintenance. We all have them. Maybe *you* are that person on your block. okay-----thanks so much for the allegations & accusations, faux. So anyway---i am not a licensed, certified clinician, so i can't diagnose someone, however==i have a theory that yeah---among the "pride"-type of people, there are what i refer to as "pride-in-property fanatics". It's a combination of a personality disorder and a neurosis. Maybe even psychosis, like the voices in their head that tell them God expects meticulous lawn care & having a pro repaint your house every three years(for example).
I have collected numerous case-studies about that type of person. But yeah--don't get me started sharing anecdotes. Hope that helps you some. Thankk mee.
In NJ we had a neighbor that would cut his lawn twice a week, and he definitely was on the neurotic side of things when it came to home maintenance. What really drove me crazy is he would put all the clippings in big contractor bags and put them on the curb for the garbageman. But, those were the values he was brought up with--the pristine 50s yard to go with the Edward Scissorhands neighborhoods. But IMHO i prefer his lawn to someone who is compulsively on the other side of the coin.
I'm in the school of "good fences make good neighbors", although I have a couple of neighbors now that are pretty good to have around. My across the street neighbor has never cracked opened front window curtains for the two years he's been there, has never waved or said hello, and has had one of those big moving pods in front of the house for a couple of weeks. I've speculated that someone might be living in it, but probably not.
Went to my first ever protest today! It was held in front of the local social security building. I’m glad I went. Surprised me the disenchantment of the current regime here in the deep south! My DS sent a video of the massive protests today in St. Paul, MN. There were 1300 protests scheduled across the country today! Apropos to the topic of this thread!
iris lilies
4-5-25, 4:41pm
Went to my first ever protest today! It was held in front of the local social security building. I’m glad I went. Surprised me the disenchantment of the current regime here in the deep south! My DS sent a video of the massive protests today in St. Paul, MN. There were 1300 protests scheduled across the country today! Apropos to the topic of this thread!
It’s raining here, but still lots of protestors were out in suburban St. Louis. I drove through a long line of them, I would say three blocks long. Some interesting and creative signs such as “this sign won’t hold all of the things I’m mad about.” Lots of great sentiments on signs in addition to the usual tired stuff that you could’ve found on Occupy Wall Street signs so many years ago.
this crowd was protesting along the side of a very busy East/West road, but they were staying out of the street and they remained on public property so I say good for them.
Went to my first ever protest today! It was held in front of the local social security building. I’m glad I went.
Out of curiosity, what were you protesting?
littlebittybobby
4-5-25, 5:48pm
okay---fanaticrats have to have SOMETHING to protess about by standing out in the street, waving signs along with their fellow fanaticrats. It makes them feel like they are contributing to the democrazy, in some way. Ha. Get a job or start a bizness or embark upon a program of self-emprovement, you idiots! Yup. Hope that helps you some.
Out of curiosity, what were you protesting?
You are being obtuse! Have discussed numerous times!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests
First paragraph summarizes ….
You are being obtuse! Have discussed numerous times!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests
First paragraph summarizes ….
"The Hands Off protests are a group of ongoing protests[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-1) that started the morning of April 5, 2025.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-3)[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-4)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-5) Over 1,300 demonstrations are planned by more than 150 groups in all 50 states of the United States.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-:4-6) The protesters aim to show their displeasure of the second Trump administration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Trump_administration), which they consider a hostile takeover of the government."
So, it wasn't anything specific other than a general displeasure with someone you didn't vote for. Got it!
I think it was more about the fact that this particular person is not just any Republican that got elected--this one is attempting, as the Wikipedia article says, a hostile takeover of the government, and he has exhibited this hostility in many ways.
My impression was that the protests were not about any one specific thing, but organized a coalition of different groups with an axe to grind with Trump around DEI, climate, deportations, mass firings, etc. I had a plane fly over my house today pulling a "Hands Off" banner. I've not heard of any reports of violence and assume they've all been peaceful.
"The Hands Off protests are a group of ongoing protests[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-1) that started the morning of April 5, 2025.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-3)[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-4)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-5) Over 1,300 demonstrations are planned by more than 150 groups in all 50 states of the United States.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-:4-6) The protesters aim to show their displeasure of the second Trump administration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Trump_administration), which they consider a hostile takeover of the government."
So, it wasn't anything specific other than a general displeasure with someone you didn't vote for. Got it!
https://apnews.com/article/trump-musk-doge-protests-hands-off-472c574303260cbac315367cc808960d
There were MANY specific reasons people were protesting. See #60 for a sampling. How are your investments doing now? The massive cuts to government agencies… try going to the national parks… not enough workers to keep them running efficiently. VA cutting services.. Name a government agency that hasn’t been screwed up? Deportations of innocent people, cuts to weather forecasters, cuts to airport workers, cuts to science/scientists regarding disease control and/or prevention, ridiculous tariffs, alienating our allies and countries around the world, AND having a non-elected; non-vetted person having access to government secrets…. I could go on.
More from the Wikipedia article had you read past the first typically introductory paragraph...
The Hands Off protests are led by a nationwide coalition of organizations, including civil rights organizations, veterans, women's rights groups, labor unions, and LGBTQ+ (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ) advocates, for example Indivisible (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indivisible_movement).[8] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-EM-8) The protests are in response to what they see as the administration's overreach on many issues: NATO (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO); schools; libraries; courts; veteran services; fair elections; transgender rights (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_the_United_States); Social Security (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)); Medicare (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)); Medicaid (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid); the federal workforce; abortion rights (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-rights_movement); and many others.[6] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-TR-6) In a document, organizers said they had three demands: “an end to the billionaire takeover and rampant corruption of the Trump administration; an end to slashing federal funds for Medicaid, Social Security, and other programs working people rely on; and an end to the attacks on immigrants, trans people, and other communities.”[8] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-EM-8)
I think it was more about the fact that this particular person is not just any Republican that got elected--this one is attempting, as the Wikipedia article says, a hostile takeover of the government, and he has exhibited this hostility in many ways.
My impression was that the protests were not about any one specific thing, but organized a coalition of different groups with an axe to grind with Trump around DEI, climate, deportations, mass firings, etc. I had a plane fly over my house today pulling a "Hands Off" banner. I've not heard of any reports of violence and assume they've all been peaceful.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-musk-doge-protests-hands-off-472c574303260cbac315367cc808960d
There were MANY reasons people were protesting.
Okay, but I'm still sort of confused. Some of you have been telling us for months that this administration represents the end of democracy as we know it, yet as this "not just any Republican" won a democratically held election and began to carry out the agenda he campaigned on, it seems all that prior support of democracy has been abandoned. I could understand that if there were something specific in that agenda that caused well meaning people to take to the streets in protest and wondered what that might be for the one person who proudly told us that's how she spent her day.
Since no one can explain it, I'll just have to assume that some might prefer anarchy to democracy.
frugal-one
4-5-25, 10:24pm
I think it was more about the fact that this particular person is not just any Republican that got elected--this one is attempting, as the Wikipedia article says, a
hostile takeover of the government, and he has exhibited this hostility in many ways.
trump’s gutting of federal agencies exhibits, as mentioned above, a desire for a hostile takeover of the government. It sure has been weakened. Putting unqualified, albeit trump cronies, in places of power (take your pick) weakens our nation
even more!
frugal-one
4-5-25, 10:29pm
Alan, reread #61 and #63 in depth. Also, don’t see these peaceful protests as anarchy.
More from the Wikipedia article had you read past the first typically introductory paragraph...
The Hands Off protests are led by a nationwide coalition of organizations, including civil rights organizations, veterans, women's rights groups, labor unions, and LGBTQ+ (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ) advocates, for example Indivisible (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indivisible_movement).[8] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-EM-8) The protests are in response to what they see as the administration's overreach on many issues: NATO (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO); schools; libraries; courts; veteran services; fair elections; transgender rights (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_the_United_States); Social Security (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)); Medicare (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)); Medicaid (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid); the federal workforce; abortion rights (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-rights_movement); and many others.[6] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-TR-6) In a document, organizers said they had three demands: “an end to the billionaire takeover and rampant corruption of the Trump administration; an end to slashing federal funds for Medicaid, Social Security, and other programs working people rely on; and an end to the attacks on immigrants, trans people, and other communities.”[8] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands_Off_protests#cite_note-EM-8)
No, I read the whole thing but I was specifically directed to the first paragraph in response to my question. It unfortunately didn't answer my inquiry.
Okay, but I'm still sort of confused. Some of you have been telling us for months that this administration represents the end of democracy as we know it, yet as this "not just any Republican" won a democratically held election and began to carry out the agenda he campaigned on, it seems all that prior support of democracy has been abandoned. I could understand that if there were something specific in that agenda that caused well meaning people to take to the streets in protest and wondered what that might be for the one person who proudly told us that's how she spent her day.
Since no one can explain it, I'll just have to assume that some might prefer anarchy to democracy.
It is not democracy to for one person circumvent Congress and run their own show with a stack of Executive Orders taller than the Washington Monument
It is not democracy to for one person to enlist a private citizen oligarch and grant them free rein to bulldoze 30 agencies.
It is not democracy for one person to run a playbook by the letter written in advance by private citizens
It is not democracy for one person to decide that America is going go isolationist and thumb their nose at allies that have worked well together in relastionships of trust and shared vision for decades.
It is not democracy for one person to play shock-and-awe with the stock market with tariffs that have everyone except for the Trump sworn loyalists shaking their heads
It is not democracy to fill a cabinet with wolves guarding henhouses: people with vested interests in direct conflict with the bodies they are hired to serve.
That's why people were protesting. At least that's what I protest with this administration.
Alan, reread #61 and #63 in depth. Also, don’t see these peaceful protests as anarchy.
I've read all your posts, #61 twice actually since you added to it while I was responding to its original truncated version. I understand that many people are not happy with an administration that is carrying out the very thing it was elected to do but I stand by my belief that highly organized attempts to discredit every aspect of the actions being taken doesn't sound like respect for democracy, it seems more anarchistic to me.
It is not democracy to for one person circumvent Congress and run their own show with a stack of Executive Orders taller than the Washington Monument
It is not democracy to for one person to enlist a private citizen oligarch and grant them free rein to bulldoze 30 agencies.
It is not democracy for one person to run a playbook by the letter written in advance by private citizens
It is not democracy for one person to decide that America is going go isolationist and thumb their nose at allies that have worked well together in relastionships of trust and shared vision for decades.
It is not democracy for one person to play shock-and-awe with the stock market with tariffs that have everyone except for the Trump sworn loyalists shaking their heads
It is not democracy to fill a cabinet with wolves guarding henhouses: people with vested interests in direct conflict with the bodies they are hired to serve.
That's why people were protesting. At least that's what I protest with this administration.
Thank you! That's exactly the sort of answer I was looking for when I asked my initial question. Each of your 6 points deserve a thoughtful and reasoned response either in agreement or from a different perspective, although not tonight. I'm off to bed in anticipation of an early morning errand tomorrow, but I will get back to you. Thanks for giving me something to work with!
I've read all your posts, #61 twice actually since you added to it while I was responding to its original truncated version. I understand that many people are not happy with an administration that is carrying out the very thing it was elected to do but I stand by my belief that highly organized attempts to discredit every aspect of the actions being taken doesn't sound like respect for democracy, it seems more anarchistic to me.
Because actions being taken are not deserving of respect but instead a threat to just about everything held dear. Just one example …. eroding YEARS of diplomacy and collaboration with allies is now dust. BUT collaborating and taking counsel with IMO leaders we would do well to hold at a distance ,ie Putin, is in fact a threat to our democracy!
won a democratically held election and began to carry out the agenda he campaigned on...
Since no one can explain it, I'll just have to assume that some might prefer anarchy to democracy.
Ha, that's pretty funny. I'm still waiting for the prices of groceries to go down and the end of the Ukraine war on day one, which were among his major campaign issues. I actually don't think he campaigned on distancing all of our global allies or allowing Elon to gut the federal work force or appointing dunces and conspiracy theorists to lead his cabinet or huge tariffs that are basically taxation without representation. As far as the end of democracy, I could probably hold my nose, shake my head, and wait for the pendulum to swing the other way if he adhered to the spirit of the constitution and the laws of our country. I could go along with the end of our country as a world leader, the end of Biden's prospering economy, the end of an independent judicial system, and the beginning of the end of honoring our nation's laws, which he will tie up in courts for years. People should not be surprised after electing a convicted felon by a jury of his peers not to mention the possibilities of 2020 election rigging. Trump is nothing short of a political mob boss, chronic liar, poor leader, and a criminal, and deserves protests regardless of how people want to word things.
flowerseverywhere
4-7-25, 5:37am
I would protest the powers that have been exhibited in Trumps actions.
Musk is not American born, is a citizen of South Africa, Canada and the US. The president must be American born. How has he handed over so much power to unelected, unvetted and non security clearance citizens. Doge has accessed so many federal records, gutted agencies and made financial decisions with no oversight or transparency.
the reason we have three branches of the government is to have representation of the citizens of the entire country. Whatever your sex, religion, race, gender, net worth, political party, education level and area of the country you live in. Of course things are not going to always go your way. But instead of stacks of executive orders, aren’t our elected house and senate members supposed to have input? He has signed 111 so far and 220 his prior term. We aren’t even 100 days in yet. Biden signed 162 in four years. George W signed 291 in eight years, Obama signed 276 in eight years. Is this really the path we want our elected officials to take regardless of party?
obviously the party in power will have the major influence on what happens. But the government is not one man’s agenda. It is not up to him to make changes without the input of others, even his own party members who have also been elected.
We need to go after the creators Project 2025.Publicize who they are, what they are conncected to and how they are benefiting. I feel as if they are running the country through himself, writing the executive orders, having a check list for the fool to check off as he signs each Executive Order.Maybe he gets a star on the chart for each one he signs, having no idea (he says) about the 2025 project. As for Elon...God help us all. But the dems must wise up!
HappyHiker
4-7-25, 11:25am
We need to go after the creators Project 2025.Publicize who they are, what they are conncected to and how they are benefiting. I feel as if they are running the country through himself, writing the executive orders, having a check list for the fool to check off as he signs each Executive Order.Maybe he gets a star on the chart for each one he signs, having no idea (he says) about the 2025 project. As for Elon...God help us all. But the dems must wise up!
You're so right! The Dems needs some smart and savvy strategists...and they seem sadly lacking in this. A recent New Yorker magazine has an article about how the Dems lost the young male vote...while the Repubs courted and won them.
I cringed when Hillary called Repub supporters "a basketful of deplorables"-- I kind of knew that helped her lose the election right then and there. It was fodder to show the Dems had become elitist...
Plus, Biden had zero appeal to that large demographic of young males.
Seems to me that the Dems need their own Project 2025 to counter the Repub's...
I wish the Dems had a youthful, full of vigor Bernie to lead the party...where or where is he/she??
Finding this whole situation very, very frustrating and sad....
I'm with you, nswef and HappyHiker, that the Dems need an overhaul big time.
Regarding Bernie's vigor—there was a segment on him on CBS Sunday Morning—I can't believe he's 83 and he's doing what he's doing. I am so proud to be able to call him my State Senator. And, yes, I have the T-shirt.
I'm with you, nswef and HappyHiker, that the Dems need an overhaul big time.
Regarding Bernie's vigor—there was a segment on him on CBS Sunday Morning—I can't believe he's 83 and he's doing what he's doing. I am so proud to be able to call him my State Senator. And, yes, I have the T-shirt.
I admire Bernie big time. Sometimes feel he's the last honest politician. Never wavers; supports we little guys. Not in anyone's pocket.
The checker at my grocery store this morning had a saying that resonated with me when I asked him how he was doing, he replied, "I've just got to suck it up and get through it."
Just the way I feel right now--but also want to march, demonstrate and express my anger at seeing our democracy dismantled, piece by piece, ally by ally.
We need to go after the creators Project 2025.Publicize who they are, what they are conncected to and how they are benefiting. I feel as if they are running the country through himself, writing the executive orders, having a check list for the fool to check off as he signs each Executive Order.Maybe he gets a star on the chart for each one he signs, having no idea (he says) about the 2025 project. As for Elon...God help us all. But the dems must wise up!
You nailed it---where are our savvy strategists...?? Seems like we've rolled over and are playing dead..
.
My congress people are pretty blue state. I have friends who write or call them every day and I've said that to me it seems like singing to the choir as they are probably experiencing he same frustrations. However, I've wondered if the red state congress people might actual be open to some public opinions from their voters. The news seems to think there are some of the GOP who are starting to want more checks on Trump's wild trade policies, although they mostly seem to have consumed the Kool-Aid on other things.
Looks like another 50% China duty is happening tomorrow.
Looks like another 50% China duty is happening tomorrow.
Yeah, the trade war with China is going to be the toughest one. I don't envy you, Tradd!
Yeah, the trade war with China is going to be the toughest one. I don't envy you, Tradd!
Yeah tomorrow is going to another dumpster fire day at work. The last two days have been quieter since the initial panic over the reciprocals died down mostly.
The 34% China reciprocal is now 84%.
So funny how a businessman thinks he can run a country like a corporation. And funny that the voters just assume the economy is going to boom just because the businessman/president/oligarch is going to be running the show the same way he ran his own businesses. Never mind that he had to seek bankruptcy protection a few times with his own businesses.
I think some people confuse Trump the business man with Trump the mad king.
I see in his speech last night he has proposed to put tariffs on all pharmaceutical imports and medicines that had been previously exempt. Of course he is known to just say things for effect.
"British drugmakers AstraZeneca and GSK topped the losers board in London, both down over 4%. Europe's most valuable company Novo Nordisk, which produces weight-loss drugs Ozempic and Wegovy, fell around 5% in Copenhagen. French pharmaceutical group Sanofi and German biotech firm Sartorius also dropped around 5%."
Orange Man is a property developer. If he had been in manufacturing, hopefully it would have been different.
Orange Man is a property developer.
Yes, I've noticed how he calls Gaza "waterfront property." That's all it means to him.
I could see this as being his strength, before he went mad. From a former co-star.
Shark Tank Investor Barbara Corcoran On Donald Trump As A Businessman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-pk-aVvVNs
Not especially-related:
I have just applied for a 6-12 week residency program in Svalbard for this coming winter. If accepted, I'll be doing some photojournalism of their emergency response organizations and a few other odds-and-end. And spending some time chatting with folks at the university there about their arctic physics programs, and see if I can talk them into something.
ToomuchStuff
4-30-25, 7:31am
What makes it an Arctic physics program? Their temperature, because I was thinking Arctic physics, wouldn't that really be at the Kelvin level?
Not especially-related:
I have just applied for a 6-12 week residency program in Svalbard for this coming winter. If accepted, I'll be doing some photojournalism of their emergency response organizations and a few other odds-and-end. And spending some time chatting with folks at the university there about their arctic physics programs, and see if I can talk them into something.
Nice! one look at your photos, and they will want you there forever!
Well, some success to report. After months of hassling with the Social Security Administration, my first Social Security check ever arrived this last week and magically was auto deposited into my bank account. I decided to pull the trigger to begin receiving benefits at the age of 62, for “reasons”.
iris lilies
8-23-25, 2:11pm
Agreed, start taking the government money ASAP when the gubmnt gives it out. I waited a couple years past 62 for mine, but didn’t have a good reason for that really.
Agreed, start taking the government money ASAP when the gubmnt gives it out. I waited a couple years past 62 for mine, but didn’t have a good reason for that really.
I'm 6 years in and still working on the money I put in. So I don't really consider it government money.
iris lilies
8-23-25, 8:29pm
I'm 6 years in and still working on the money I put in. So I don't really consider it government money.
You don’t have to consider it the government’s money.
Because the gubmnt controls how much is in “My” fund and how it is paid out, because they can decide not to pay it to me or can cut it any time, and because they will keep it if I drop dead tomorrow, I consider it not-my-money.
I'm 6 years in and still working on the money I put in. So I don't really consider it government money.
I just looked up my statement. Since I "retired" when I was about 36, my total contributions were fairly minimal, though maxed-out some of those working years. Looks like if I total my contributions + employer contributions, I'll get those funds back in 5 years, and then it'll be "pure profit"...
Now, if I'd taken that same sum of money and bought an S&P500 index fund in 1999 when I "retired", I'd have about $1 million in cash today, assuming dividend reinvestment. That cash, invested boringly, would yield me nearly twice the yearly income that Social Security will be providing me, without much risk of principal depletion.
Bother. I probably shouldn't have just done that math.
iris lilies
8-23-25, 9:12pm
I just looked up my statement. Since I "retired" when I was about 36, my total contributions were fairly minimal, though maxed-out some of those working years. Looks like if I total my contributions + employer contributions, I'll get those funds back in 5 years, and then it'll be "pure profit"...
Now, if I'd taken that same sum of money and bought an S&P500 index fund in 1999 when I "retired", I'd have about $1 million in cash today, assuming dividend reinvestment. That cash, invested boringly, would yield me nearly twice the yearly income that Social Security will be providing me, without much risk of principal depletion.
Bother. I probably shouldn't have just done that math.
You can see why the younger folks at my workplace voted AGAINST
joining the Social Security system when we put it to a vote in the year 2013.
There was rumbling and grumbling at this attitude around the administrative table, apparently from those who cannot math.
Librarians aren’t especially strong at numbers.
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