View Full Version : Loosing our girl/womanly skills???
Are today's young girls loosing ground in the department of time-honoured womanly skills that once used to be? (Used to be as in common everyday skills every girl seemed to know and was taught just a generation ago)? Things like sewing, basic homemaking, baking/cooking, etc?
As a young girl I learned how to sew on a button by the age of 7 or 8, and I knew how to change the vacuum cleaner bag (and filter) out on moms Electrolux canister vacuum. I also knew how to warm a baby's bottle (safely).
By the time I reached double digit status, I was cooking, cleaning, and baking, and I knew my way around a washing machine, a laundry basket, and a clothesline. (I even knew a handful of basics related to knitting and crocheting).
By age 11/12, I started babysitting, and I changed diapers. In those days (the 70's), cloth diapers (with pins) were in vogue, and I was never shown (officially) how to change a diaper, but I knew how to do it, and, I knew what to do with the aftermath (end result) when all was said and done. (My mom did explain to me although, time and again, while changing baby brother, that, "this is the way you pin so as not to stick the baby".
I don't think young girls today are getting the exposure to, and experience behind them that I did as a young girl, and although I recognize the fact that times have changed (as compared to my old days), I still believe that some things old-fashioned and simple should never be lost.
How about you? Do you notice the change?
Mighty Frugal
9-5-11, 7:29pm
I think kids in general (both boys and girls) are more spoiled than we were in our youth. I have yet to meet a family that expects their children to do chores. And even most teens do not have jobs. When I was a teen we all worked somewhere (ahem..McDs)
But yes, at 12 I ran to the garden to collect almost everything I needed to make a tomato sauce. We'd shoo off the hens to scoop eggs to bake our Duncan Hines cakes, and we all had housekeeping duties each Sat morning (my brothers as well). I also had my first newspaper route at 9 (with my sis) and my mom taught me to knit around 11 yrs old-never was very good
I also remember deep frying home made doughnuts at 12 (I have always been a slave to my sweet tooth)
I guess I don't see cleaning, laundry or cooking as "womanly" skills. I think every young adult should know the basics of these, as well as how to change a tire, understand a bank statement, and jumpstart a car safely. I don't think either gender is being served by remaining ignorant of the basics of life. My nephews are both fine cooks, and adequate housekeepers, though I will admit they are selective as to WHEN they choose to do this.
I also disagree that these are exclusively girl skills. I know two brothers who had no idea how to wash their laundry when they went to college. I find that unacceptable. I also get the feeling somehow that few kids ever have to do chores, or that there is a requirement they be paid for their chores. I have no hard evidence for this, of course. Many children might be doing chores and doing them as part of a family unit, which in my mind, is how they are supposed to be.
Your thread reminded me of Anne of Green Gables, though. She went to live with Marilla and Matthew at the age of 11 with lacking domestic skills and by 16 she could run the house all on her own if need be.
I agree that all kids should learn these skills! I suspect that most people on these boards teach these to their kids. At 8, my daughter has seen me do all kinds of tasks around the house and at other houses as well as our church. She's seen me use power tools, dig deep holes to plant trees, help friends move a piano, as well as the things you mentioned. On the frugal side of things, she's seen me make things out of repurposed old clothing as well as small scraps of fabric, and she's seen how we always use up our foods, sometimes turning them into new things for another dinner. On the crafty side, I've taught her hand sewing, counted cross stitch, needlepoint, and crochet. (This summer she has presented everyone she knows with a beaded and crocheted necklace or bracelet!) She can help me hang laundry now (tall enough) but it's still difficult for her to reach the washing machine controls, so that's on the future list.
The only "womanly skill" I ever practiced was flirting, and that's not really limited to females. The only reason I do anything you might call "domestic" is that I can't afford staff. ;)
Oh, OK. I used to be able to apply false eyelashes in a moving car in about 45 seconds, and I can quilt.
Really, very few of the women in my family were/are particularly interested in such things. One of my aunts chided her husband for referring to her cooking skills in a newspaper interview: "Of all the things I do well..." >:(
...So in my family, at least, it's not a generational thing.
Quite frankly, despite being 52 years old, my mother never taught me to cook, or sew or anything else. I taught myself both. I made a handmade quilt, the old fashioned way, no machine after several botched attempts. I really am poorly versed in ironing, the rules of laundry, dishwashing, caring for draperies, furniture, beds, bedding or anything else. I'm still pretty bad at them. My mother didn't teach me to garden, although I was expected to weed, mow the lawn with the push mower and trim with the hand held hedger. I didn't learn to arrange flowers. I don't know the rules of hostessing, or dining or serving. So, I dont' know if it's a loss. I guess it is. More girls certainly did have skills taught to them years ago. I just wasn't one of them. I wish I had been given more training in hands on skills and also in charms and social graces. All would have been very helpful to me. In fact, I was given no training, education nor any information at all on the beginnings of premenstrual, pubescence, menstruation, cramps sex, anatomy or birth control. None. No advice for laundering said items, how to use said items and what they were for.
Tiam, I'm ten years younger than you are, but I can most certainly sympathize. My mother wanted me out of the kitchen.
I taught myself to cook about 15 years ago. I even know how to make bread by hand (I asked a friend some years back who makes ALL her bread from scratch).
Don't sew, as it hurts my hands (carpel tunnel - too much typing).
My mother is so dismayed at my becoming domesticated, despite her efforts for me to NOT, that she extremely sarcastically calls me "Little Suzie Homemaker" now.
I bought myself "Home Comforts: The Art and Science of Keeping House" by Cheryl Mendelson. Highly recommended. Reference for cleaning anything and everything.
I don't own anything that needs to be ironed!
I think most people today don't have those basic skills. Corporate jobs or having to work several part-time jobs, as many do, doesn't leave time for what used to be routine household maintenance. People who can afford it hire the work out. Those who can't rely on convenience foods, cutting corners, et cetera.
Even though I'm close to 66, I didn't learn to cook until I went to college nor was I expected to keep my room clean. (I did so because I was a natural-born neatnik, but my mom did the heavy-duty stuff like laundering the sheets and vacuuming.) I would have helped, but I was never asked to do so, and as for cooking, my mom didn't like anyone underfoot in her kitchen. She had her routines and didn't want anyone in her way in the rather small, galley kitchen we had. My aunt, however, saw to it that I learned to knit and sew and do some simple crafts well before I got out of grade school. I learned some very basic cooking skills in Home Ec, a required course back then, and I still wish I had been allowed to take "shop" because it's been trial and error learning how to use tools, and I don't know how to build things at all.
I do think everyone, regardlesss of gender, should know how to cook, clean, do simple mending, and know how to make small home repairs at the very minimum. These are survival skills. If you choose not to use them, fine, but knowing how makes a difference when TSHTF.
Here in my community it seems like the generation now bringing up babies is becoming more interested in home arts. I see a lot of young families starting their own gardens, for instance, and the local yarn shop is owned and run by two young-ish (by my standards, they might be 30) women.
My daughters showed differing interests in domesticities. One loved to cook and went to culinary school. I always encouraged them to watch/help me in the kitchen but she was the only one who did. She also has a sewing machine and likes to make quilts. This she got from watching her grandmother (my Mom). I didn't do a lot of that when they were growing up because I was a one-parent household, too much to do.
The other one now runs her own household and calls me or DH all the time with cooking questions, and if she needs any clothing repairs done, she asks if I'll do it for her. She doesn't own a sewing machine, doesn't want one. She's not naturally gifted in the domestics dept., but she's a good mother. Her kids are well cared for.
My sister has a step-granddaughter who comes to stay with them for a week or so every summer. The first time she came, my sister had her help her make her bed in the morning. The girl said, "What do you do this for?" She had never seen a bed made up before! My sister explained that she just likes to get into a made bed each night, so she just takes a bit of time to do this in the morning. The girl was so impressed that she now makes her bed; her sibling and parents do not.
Both my DH & I cook, sew, knit, do carpentry, clean the wood stove and the cat box, etc. The homemaking arts are non- gender specific, thank goodness; and thank the women's movement that men as well as women participate in home making!
The only things I learned as a young girl and was expected to do was wash the dinner dishes, make my bed, dust my room and keep it picked up. No problem for me since I like everything to be neat and clean. I did fold washcloths and towels occasionally for my Mother. And I did know how to cook a grilled cheese, an omelette, and make cherry and apple pies, thanks to my Grandmother showing me how. Other than that I knew nothing. My Mother didn't like me underfoot in her small kitchen. She didn't sew herself, so didn't teach me, but my Grandmother who thought it was important that I know how to sew sent me to sewing classes one summer when I was about 12 years old. I flunked that class and also home ec sewing in junior high school. I got married at age 17 and did not know how to clean house, do laundry, cook, live on a budget, etc. I often wonder why my parents didn't teach me more, but they were perfectionists and according to them I couldn't do anything right anyway..... My then 19 year old husband taught me how to clean, cook, and do laundry. He was raised doing those chores, and it's a good thing because I was clueless. I soon learned all of these things and consider myself good at all of them 36 years later. LOL
I definitely think both girls and boys need to learn household skills growing up, not just girls. It will serve them well someday....
I think the expectations for both boys and girls has fallen by the wayside. Girls are not taught domestic skills, hand craft skills etc.. And boys are not being taught basic shop skills, mechanic skills etc.. I think it's good for both genders to have skill in all these areas. It serves them well. But with both parents working full time in many cases, with some working mulitiple jobs etc.. With kids being overly scheduled with this activity, that class etc...There simply is no time left for teaching kids these skills. Dinner is often eaten on the run, processed and convience foods make up more of the American diet today than it ever has in the past.
The expecation that young people will learn these things is simply not there and we expect far less from our kids than was expected of them a generation ago. As a result, the developmental stages of young people has been changed. Kids are reaching these stages at older and older ages, simply due to the expecations placed on them by society. Teens today are much younger in terms of maturity level than their counterparts just a generation or two ago.
The age of instant gratification and modern convience may also have a roll in this. Kids today don't have to work for what they want or wait and save up for something they want. In many cases they get it because a parent is able to pull out a credit card. When I was a kid you paid cash for things and had to save up and the harder you worked, the quicker you could save. You didn't get something simply because you wanted it. Toys, gadgets etc.. were reserved for birthdays and Christmas.
Now my son is a college freshman. He can clean a bathroom, run a vaccuum, do a load of laundry, iron a shirt and sew on a button. He can cook to a degree (He doesn't like to cook), has basic power tool knowelge and can follow a blueprint to do a repair on an appliance. He can't knit (I tried to teach him) and while he could quilt if he wanted to, he doesn't have the patience.
Remember cross stitch? I am 50 and remember having to learn that when I was really young. Ok like that was going to do me much good in life. But I think that gave kids the foundation to at least know how to use a needle and thread. Other then that Mom did not pass any cooking or home skills on to me, guess she probably gave up on me since I was sure I was going to be a Rock Star :) I learned everything on my own when I was well into my 30's.
No I do not see girl or boy skills. Both should learn all needed basic home skills, to take care of themselves. Home Economics....where did that go in school??
I learned to cook and sew by watching my mother. I recall also her teaching me the correct way to iron a man's shirt. I think we should all be learning more about house keeping and self-sufficiency. I agree that some young folks are returning to those ways. I was very surprised recently when dd gave us some fig preserves that she made from the trees in her yard - she taught herself to can from watching you-tube. Now she is interested in putting in food gardens and composting - go figure...
My mother taught me the correct way to press a man's shirt is to rest the hot iron on it long enough to leave a scorch mark--that way you won't have to do it again. :~) Not surprisingly, my father ironed his own shirts.
I agree everyone should learn basic life skills, even if they rarely have occasion to use them. YouTube is probably an excellent resource for such.
I think like the others that these are skills every child should learn, as well as mechanical skills, irregardless of gender. Being abdept at taking care of yourself, your home and your family would be a valualbe skill for all.
As to why girls are less involved with domestic stuff - well I think alot of it has to do with the fact that girls - and their parents - have a different focus on the girls future now then they did in the past. Most girls probably know that they will have careers rather than marry and start making babies right after high school. So they focus less on domestic stuff. Girls have more opportunities to be involved with things in school and recreationally then ever before ntoo. Things like sports, science, computers, etc... and they are spending more time on those things then on learning domestic skills. I know if I had a daughter I'd rather see her playing sports and learning science then how to cook and clean and care for a home.
My sister-in-law, an otherwise talented and intelligent woman is oddly proud of not having "girl" skills -- at the age of 48. I prefer to think of them as "life skills," and I think it's a collossal shame that she can't put a meal on the table if needed. Nobody says that one has to be Martha Stewart -- just reasonably capable.
Along with a lot of other posters, I also think that kids should be taught life skills, regardless of gender, with extra lessons based on interest. I wasn't taught many of the so-called girl- or boy-skills growing up (my mom was an indifferent housekeeper and cook; neither of my two different dads had any of the traditionally male skills), and it's a shame. I do have the satisfaction of having taught myself how to survive life and work and marriage and operating a household, so that's something.
Now, I also don't think any of the necessary life skills are that difficult to learn (plus, now there's YouTube), but it does take interest and patience. I admit that I don't do a lot of the "boy" stuff around the house, but then I don't need to since my DH does that.
If he died, I would have to learn to clean the gutters and fix a pipe and change the car's oil, etc., and I think I'd be OK. If I died, he's have to learn how to grocery shop and cook on a budget, and he'd be in trouble! ;)
Kara
Quite frankly, despite being 52 years old, my mother never taught me to cook, or sew or anything else. I taught myself both. I made a handmade quilt, the old fashioned way, no machine after several botched attempts. I really am poorly versed in ironing, the rules of laundry, dishwashing, caring for draperies, furniture, beds, bedding or anything else. I'm still pretty bad at them. My mother didn't teach me to garden, although I was expected to weed, mow the lawn with the push mower and trim with the hand held hedger. I didn't learn to arrange flowers. I don't know the rules of hostessing, or dining or serving. So, I dont' know if it's a loss. I guess it is. More girls certainly did have skills taught to them years ago. I just wasn't one of them. I wish I had been given more training in hands on skills and also in charms and social graces. All would have been very helpful to me. In fact, I was given no training, education nor any information at all on the beginnings of premenstrual, pubescence, menstruation, cramps sex, anatomy or birth control. None. No advice for laundering said items, how to use said items and what they were for.
Tiam, that's just about me, too, at 67. I was the last of four, and Mother was, I guess you'd say, "distant". Not aloof, or cruel, or uncaring, just an "on the surface" kind of mom. I was the last of four, and I was different from everyone else, and I'm not sure they knew who I was or what to do with me. BUT, I did take "Home Economics" in JrHigh and HS, so I learned the basics there. And the "womanly" stuff? ... had to learn all that on my own too. {sigh}
My daughter turned 25 this weekend and her wish list was a book about canning, as much of the Firefox series that I would buy for her, and a vegan cookbook - survival skills for an artist who hopes to live from her art!
the best thing was that after my Dad died, I brought home the boxed set of Firefox vols 1, 2, and 3, which I passed on to her. I think my Dad would have been thrilled.
early morning
9-6-11, 11:30pm
LOVE the Foxfire books, chrissieq - we butchered our first deer from those books! No, really - my BIL hit it on the road and brought it to our house, and DH was a little incapacitated - those were our partying days. I wasn't going to let all that meat go to waste, OR ask any family guy to help! I'm sure we did a real hack job, but it went into the freezer and we ate it all. I learned how to cook/clean/sew/can/saw/plaster/wallpaper/garden/hunt/fish/etc from all sorts of family members, just by helping and hanging out, mostly, and I don't think such things should be gender specific. One can plan to carry out a gender-specific role in life, but things happen. Best to be prepared.
Reading through all your responses has been a real learning experience for me. Thank you everybody. (So much mentioned and talked about already). Totally awesome you guys!
Somehow, in the back of my mind, I was thinking, "kids today, specifically girls, are missing out on so much in the way of time-honoured learning. So little in the way of basic old-fashioned home-front skills and teachings, skills and teachings that have been around forever".
I had convinced myself that young girls of today were like a fading colour (of sorts), forever being lost to new and improved (and more modern) palettes of fresh new brightness and vibrance, when in reality, that just isn't so. At least not as a full, all-out, blanket type belief/statement, and definitely not here, because I know (like myself), many of you have, or are in the process of teaching your children things you know to help prepare them for later. (I wouldn't expect anything less from SL's).
However, there's no doubt (to a degree), a subtle hue of transformation is indeed taking place today where a percentage of young and growing girls (women) are less adept at doing many of the things their identical counterparts were taught and trained how to do (and doing) just one generation ago.
I ran this thread idea by my husband, my SIL, and my oldest daughter before posting (super great people to talk to and bounce ideas off of), just to get a little inside skinny on a few things. At first I wanted to make this thread a girl and guy experience, but my husband said to me, "I don't know of a single guy friend of mine (or friends I had), or a single guy I went to school with (that I knew) that didn't have some sort of basic knowledge and skills surrounding entry level mechanics, basic home-repair, etc. We all (speaking for himself and his guy friends) had lawn-cutting jobs as our first ever jobs, we all had dads who hunted and took us out with them, so we had experience in that field, fishing too, and everyone's dad (in those days) tinkered out back with everything, so I think guys are sort of, somewhat, exempt of your topic". I agreed, and thus the guy idea was dropped.
Nonetheless, we talked about other things too, like cooking, baking, and laundry, and a few other things such as babysitting (and the likes of), and like most boys from back in those days, he never did any of it, neither did any of his friends, which I already knew.
However, in speaking with my oldest daughter (age 19), she confirmed to me that, a lot of her friends haven't done as much as she has, i.e. domestic/home-front things, they don't know how to cook (or bake), they know very little related to the care of laundry (or the likes of), and a few have never babysat or changed a diaper before.
P.S. When I started this thread, I (in no way), intended to come across as sounding like I was masking off an area in preparation of painting it with a gender specific argument of sorts as to roles and things, I was simply wanting to express what I've been noticing lately related to the lack of knowledge pertaining to traditional teachings and learnings seemingly nonexistant today in many homes where young and growing girls and women are involved. Additionally, I wholeheartedly agree that no skill should ever be kept away from, or made exempt from those wanting to learn it.
Lastly, one thing I'd like to mention, I tried sooo hard to get my older son involved with our two youngest when they were babies, but no such success. According to dear son, "everything baby is feminine", or as he worded it, "girlie". (Give you one guess as to where he gets that from)...
Still, one thing I remember from my own pre-teen and teen years that still sits fresh in my mind, is how advanced and experienced all of the girls with strong European backgrounds (influences) were at doing domestic things. Amazing! They all knew what their own moms knew, and that in itself reiterates to me my love of all things old-fashioned. Seems there was always an old-fashioned sense Re: family life in their homes, and I'd love to see those old ways resurrected and brought back full-circle again.
You know, there's a richness that arises from out of the depths of this forum that can't be equaled IMO. The richness I'm referring to is the result of true to life experiences, knowledge, and real honest-to-goodness know-how, and it is that richness that cannot be readily found (anywhere). It's simply the result of being involved with a superlative board, graced with an array of superlative people/members, and when combined, creates the most perfect and diverse blend of expertise around. So glad to be a part of that!
BUT, I did take "Home Economics" in JrHigh and HS, so I learned the basics there. And the "womanly" stuff? ... had to learn all that on my own too. {sigh}
UGH I forgot about mandatory home ec class in HS, as well as typing. I hated both and rebelled against being forced to take them with a vengence (mid-1970's). And of course boys were not allowed in home ec or typing and girls were not allowed in the boys mandatory auto and wood shop. I tried to get into those instead of Home Ec and eventually got into auto shop (only girl but because I worked in a motorcycle shop repairing engines they LET me in). Still had to take Home Ec and typing though. Back then there was still the idea that a woman didn't need any other skills except typing to be able to support herself until she landed a husband. She really only needed to know domestic ones since she would of course quit her job once she married anyways. This was my Mom's philosophy as well, and she tried in vain to teach me domestic skills. But I rebelled in an even bigger way against those until she gave up. But even though I don't like to do domestic stuff, I am perfectly capable of doing it well. And I still know how to sew an A-Line skirt - my Home Ec class project. Not that I own a sewing machine ;-)!
Still, one thing I remember from my own pre-teen and teen years that still sits fresh in my mind, is how advanced and experienced all of the girls with strong European backgrounds (influences) were at doing domestic things. Amazing! They all knew what their own moms knew, and that in itself reiterates to me my love of all things old-fashioned. Seems there was always an old-fashioned sense Re: family life in their homes, and I'd love to see those old ways resurrected and brought back full-circle again.
Ah but even those old world European Moms often failed to pass along their old-fashioned skills to their rebellious daughters - i.e. ME :-)! My Mom was born and raised in Germany and didn't come to this country until she was in her mid-20s (and my Dad was a first generation swedish-american and very old fashioned as well). Both were VERY old fashioned, everything frome scratch, everything handmade, done the old world way, etc... Her skills were lost on me because I wasn't interested - neither was my sister or brother. She eventually gave up on trying to teach us, and also started doing things a more modern, convienent and faster way. Us kids actually liked it much better when she "modernized" a bit. Instead of her spending all of her days slaving over a hot stove, ironing, washing, cleaning, sewing, darning, cooking from scratch, canning, etc... just endless time consuming chores, she had so much more free time to spend with us doing fun things like going to the beach or the pool or bike rides and hikes, doing crafts, going to our games or meets or competitions, and well... just playing with us. It was great. And to be honest, I could never tell if the pie was home made or store bought anyways so I'd rather have it be store bought if it meant she had more free time to hang out with us kids.
P.S. Mrs. M - really liked your nice, well worded post above!
I see no problem with mothers teaching their daughters ‘womanly skills’ or fathers teaching their sons ‘manly skills’. Recently a neighbor girl proudly told me she did her first ‘canning’ and last year boy told me he shot his first deer (glad for him but that is something I couldn’t do). I’ve always seen this sort of thing as a ‘rite of passage’. The Amish in the area still pass along skills along gender lines. I also see no problem with both genders knowing all types of skills.
The biggest change I’ve seen in my lifetime regarding the OP I feel is due to the demise of the small family farm where the division of labor was most evident. I don’t remember a time not learning, knowing or doing womanly skills AND working on the farm. My brothers worked the farm from age 10/12. Ironically, I now own and operate the family farm and my brothers are professionals far, far from home.
I see no problem with mothers teaching their daughters ‘womanly skills’ or fathers teaching their sons ‘manly skills’. Recently a neighbor girl proudly told me she did her first ‘canning’ and last year boy told me he shot his first deer (glad for him but that is something I couldn’t do). I’ve always seen this sort of thing as a ‘rite of passage’. The Amish in the area still pass along skills along gender lines. I also see no problem with both genders knowing all types of skills.
The biggest change I’ve seen in my lifetime regarding the OP I feel is due to the demise of the small family farm where the division of labor was most evident. I don’t remember a time not learning, knowing or doing womanly skills AND working on the farm. My brothers worked the farm from age 10/12. Ironically, I now own and operate the family farm and my brothers are professionals far, far from home.
I've also seen this change in division of labor on alot of farms too where the women/girls are doing more of the manual labor either along side the boys/men or instead of the boys/men. I know of several people who saw that their sons had no interest in farming or ranching at all while the daughters did and often took over running the family farm - as well as doing all the traditionally manly labor. I have a friend who's parents have a 65 acre farm in Iowa and who originally thought their 2 sons would be doing the farming while their daughter would end up married, living elsewhere raising children. But it's the daughter who ended up interested in farming and laboring rather than marraige and domestic life (although she eventually married and had a child) while the sons live in the city and are professionals (one a HS science teacher and the other a city employee). Neither of the boys showed an interest in farming growing up but the daughter always loved to be outdoors doing farm chores - much to the parents dismay who believed kids should stick to chores and lives within traditional gender roles. But the kids learned skills outside traditional gender roles anyways and in the end everyone ended up happy with their choices. I think that most of todays parent's (who are probably in their 20's and 30's) are much more accepting of their children's desires to learn tasks and skills outside of traditional gender roles and do what they can to accomadate that. I think maybe todays parents are probably the first generation to be OK, even happy and proud, of their kids for wanting to learn things outside traditional roles. I know my Mom was always extremely appalled when my Dad would teach us girls non-girlie things (like how to shoot guns or ride motorcycles or fix cars at very young ages). Same thing with teaching my brother to cook or clean - something she felt was inappropriate for a boy to do. But I think she would be accepting of that if she were a mother of this generation. I think parents today sort of go along with their childs interests rather than force them to do things they don't like just because it's what they are "suppose" to do based on their gender.
Nowadays, I don't think certain skills necessarily need to be segregated by gender.
I think the reason some of these skills aren't passed on as frequently now is because everything you could ever need is readily available new at relatively low prices, eg. buying new clothes instead of mending old ones. It's more convenient. But, of course, it's more of a drain on resources of all sorts.
My mother passed on to me the practicalities of cooking, cleaning, childcare and things like basic sewing and other household chores. My brothers were not taught all these things! Or perhaps they showed less interest in learning? My dad taught me how to use a computer at a young age, which has proved invaluable.
When I moved in with my boyfriend, it surprised me to learn that he had very little (what I would deem) 'common sense' when it came to cleaning, doing laundry and cooking. Know-how for these tasks seems to be ingrained in me, whereas for him it was all new! Just the other day, I had to teach him how to get a sauce stain out of the carpet. Isn't it just common sense?! Nature or nurture?? :)
I agree with the people who point out those things aren't "womanly skills". My nine-year-old son is the real cook of the family. I also have to hide the iron from him, because occasionally, he'll go on an ironing rampage, and I'm not sure the iron is a safe instrument in his hands.
Since I started working part time, Zeb has declared that he is going to take over making dinners. That's led to a little dispute about vegetarianism versus a meat-based diet. I trend heavily toward vegetarianism in my own cooking. So far this week, we've had chicken and chile con carne. I'm going to try to find him a kid's cookbook that isn't so heavily into meat.
My daughter's main skill right now is becoming a teen. She prefers to spend time in her room, texting her friends. She is, however, very skilled and helpful with everything if I go pry her out of her bed.
My brothers and I all learned to sew, bake and clean from Mom, and to make eggs and do some basic home repairs from Dad. In Mom's view, the womanly skill I should improve is training my husband to do more of the housework.
I admit I have rejected housecleaning and ironing. I have many ways I would rather spend my time, and pay someone to do it.
Re gender roles: Someone once told me that he found it surprising that so many woman scientists are also excellent cooks and/or seamstresses -- apparently women who are interested in a traditionally male dominated field should not be the type to employ traditional domestic skills? My take is that we enjoy kitchen experiments and fabric engineering!
I prefer division of labor by skill, interest, and need, personally. I guess I don't know my "place" very well. My mother gave up on getting me to do the female shuck and jive pretty early in the game.
Re: husbands and housework, I will be forever greatful that my husband was raised by a single mother who needed and expected her two sons to do their own laundry and pitch in with meal prep and other household chores. Sure I do most of the cooking now, but that's because I enjoy it and am better at it. But, when I don't feel like cooking, my husband is completely willing and capable of fending for himself and would never, ever, expect me to do for him.
This is completely opposite of my mother's relationship with both her husbands and she certainly did not raise her three sons the be self-sufficient around the house, either. Unfortunately, I still see so many mothers raising their sons to be waited on and their daughters to do the waiting. What the heck??
Kara
chanterelle
9-7-11, 7:03pm
We all were taught everything..no division of labor in our house.
However my sister and I still roll on the floor laughing as we remember our plump little mother with her Donna Reed pearls and her chainsaw......It would have been a real hit on u-tube!!!
I did see an op-ed piece in the NY Times about the need to restore "home ec" which is now called Family and Consumer Science, in the US anyway.
The author maintained that Home Economics was so successful in transforming how homemakers managed their home, particularly in areas like sanitation and nutrition, that they are just seen as common sense, things EVERYONE knows.
Except that this generation doesn't know. Not really. Not about nutrition. We have people obsessing over micronutrients while an alarmingly high percentage of adults AND children are overweight. Somehow, I doubt micronutrient knowledge is going to help that. Basic cooking skills and menu planning are what's needed and I don't know if the schools need one more thing piled on them. Those of us who know should find someone who doesn't and be the teacher that is available when the student is ready.
My mother was a meticulous housekeeper but did not like to cook. I'm a decent cook but a minimalist housekeeper. Thank goodness for Flylady.
The schools do NOT need one more thing piled on them, and besides, they aren't going to do a decent job at teaching someone to cook although introducing concepts of measurements, sanitation, and nutrition could be done. I'm of the generation that took Home Ec and I most def did NOT learn how to cook during that limited instruction time. Same for household budgeting checkbook balancing etc--we did all of that but I had no recollection of it when I started out in life. I learned more about cooking form DH (and also one fabulous 5 week Asian cooking class) than I ever learned at home or in school. The student was not ready to receive information, and that makes all of the difference.
Mrs. M - what I find rather interesting is that there were apparently more than a few mothers who REFUSED to pass any sort of housekeeping knowledge down to their daughters. Period. What I got, I scrambled into on my own - or they were tidbits thrown to me in passing. But just WHY our mothers refused to teach us the most basic things is beyond me.
Mine is utterly horrified I cook and bake so well. The fact that I can do bread by hand is not to be mentioned. And if it was known I cook Middle Eastern (and am quite good at it, people always ask for the recipe), I'd be screamed at (needless to say, there are other issues in the family) - "Why do you want to eat that trash?" or something along those lines.
And the parents always wonder why I moved six hours away 15+ years ago and haven't been back since 2002...
I'd like to see public schools make independent research and critical thinking skills a priority. All I learned in Home Ec was not to put too much pepper in the mashed potatoes.
I did see an op-ed piece in the NY Times about the need to restore "home ec" which is now called Family and Consumer Science, in the US anyway.
I think this would be a good thing if it was required by both males and females and not gender-segregated. Teaching kids about basic home skills - which should include both basic mechanical skills as well as domestic ones - along with financial and consumer basics can probably help kids in alot of areas of their lives. Maybe a "Life Skills" class. Something more realistic for todays society.
I'd like to see public schools make independent research and critical thinking skills a priority. All I learned in Home Ec was not to put too much pepper in the mashed potatoes.
Ha Ha - I always though the same thing about the required art classes I had to take - as well as foreign language class. It's like, when will I ever need to know how to make a paper mache' flamingo and speak french? At least in Home Ec I got to eat other people's cooking ;-)! That's the best "life skill" I've learned - find someone who like to cook and hang out with them - alot!! :devil:
Mrs. M - what I find rather interesting is that there were apparently more than a few mothers who REFUSED to pass any sort of housekeeping knowledge down to their daughters. Period. What I got, I scrambled into on my own - or they were tidbits thrown to me in passing. But just WHY our mothers refused to teach us the most basic things is beyond me.
Mine is utterly horrified I cook and bake so well. The fact that I can do bread by hand is not to be mentioned. And if it was known I cook Middle Eastern (and am quite good at it, people always ask for the recipe), I'd be screamed at (needless to say, there are other issues in the family) - "Why do you want to eat that trash?" or something along those lines.
And the parents always wonder why I moved six hours away 15+ years ago and haven't been back since 2002...
I think alot of women who are probably your Mom's age (guessing 50 - 60 ish?) were most likely feminests who envisioned a less domestic life for their daughters. I've seen this alot. Moms who hope their daughters pursue non-traditional careers over marriage and family life - or at least along side marriage and family life. Many of those Moms didn't have those choices when young and often want to make sure their daughters take full advantage of all the opportunities available to them rather than be stuck in what they may consider a life of domestic drudgery being dependant on a man for everything. So they try to steer their daughter far away from anything domestic and into the life the mom's want for them. You see the same thing of older Mom's (say before the late 60's early 70's) who tried to steer their daughter toward traditional careers and marriage and a life of domesticity.
Holy smokes! So many great new entries! Thanks you guys.
Would like to start by talking about home-ec. I took home-ec at the start of middle school and loved it! We had the best teacher. I remember when I first stumbled upon the home-ec room. I thought, "wow"! I mean it had the works. Washing machines and dryers, a couple of clotheslines strung from end to end (wall to wall), stoves and fridges, small makeshift kitchens, ironing boards, everything. It was a serious course back then. The teacher covered it all. (Don't recall whether or not it was gender specific/restricted or not). No boys in my class although...
Nonetheless, I remember all of the short and condensed schedules of study. The teacher did things in waves. For example, when we were covering cooking, she covered washing dishes (at the same time), proper food storage, placement of table settings, etc, and of course, helpful tips along the way.
But what I remember most about the class is how the teacher always started by asking the class, "have you done this before", or, "have you done that before". Never was there a no-show of hands. (In fact it was just the opposite). Such a rarity not to see another students hand held high in the air. Seemed most of us were trained and/or had experience doing most everything. That was the 70's (late 70's).
With my own daughters, I taught them everything I felt they needed to know (and should know). It was fun, and I know they enjoyed it, too. As a mom it made me feel good inside, teaching and showing them how to do this and that. Thinking back on it now, being a stay-at-home mom definitely has it's rewards when it comes to things like that, and I can't help but think how many girls are missing out on such, i.e. one on one teachings, courtesy of being raised in a double parent working home. Young girls who want to learn but can't. Sad.
When I became a member of the SLN back in 2006, I was just on the cusp of starting up an out-of-home, Home Economics program. I planned on covering everything domestic and home-front, and was looking to offer the program to anyone/everyone. However as the saying goes, "life happens when you're busy making other plans", and that's where my idea and dream started and ended. (Two baby boys is what happened)! LMAO!
Nevertheless, support for my venture was through the roof! First on my list of students interested in signing up, two of my oldest daughters friends, and I even had a neighbour who was interested. I think there's a strong calling for this sort of thing today, but it's not offered by anyone or anywhere. (Golly, sorry about my ramble).
P.S. So much to touch on and cover yet, as you guys have brought up so many things. Will have to keep dibbling and dabbling in this thread until I'm done. (One day at a time).
domestic goddess
9-8-11, 9:22pm
Well, my parents would be in their late 80's if both were still alive; my mom is 86. She tried to teach me to do some cooking, but, frankly, she was never much of a cook. I was supposed to cook a meal a week, but that often got pre-empted by school activities. My dad was interested in me taking only college prep courses, so I never took Home Ec. Talk about turning an innocent out into the street!! When I got hungry enough, I learned to cook.
My Mom wanted me to keep my room clean and learn something about doing laundry, but I foiled her. I still don't keep my room tidy, and my clothes are so old they couldn't possibly fade, so I mostly just throw everything into the wash together. I do enjoy baking, and cooking to a slightly lesser degree. My dh used to always compliment my efforts, but he is gone now, and everyone in the house has such varying schedules that it is difficult to make a single meal for everyone, so it is pretty much every man for himself. My dd doesn't know much about cooking, either, because she wasn't interested, but her SO makes suggestions that are often things I can't eat or things that are difficult because he is so non-specific. For instance, he wanted DD to make a dish with beef and barley that his mother used to make, but nothing she tried was "right", and he couldn't provide any other information about it. He wants spaghetti made with hot breakfast sausage, which then keeps me up all night with awful indigestion and reflux.
Still, I do think that all children should grow up learning at least the basics: how a stove works, how to make a few basic dishes (don't ask me what those should be!) to keep starvation away, how to keep clothing at least passably clean, and the house clean enough that you don't end up on the evening news (Local family found living in filth, film at 10), some basic carpentry and mechanical skills, etc. Not all parents are going to be able to teach these things, so they either need to be available in schools, or in independent classes taught locally.
Oh, perfect:
"...the house clean enough that you don't end up on the evening news (Local family found living in filth, film at 10)"
That's exactly what I aim for!
Really, the more useful skills one can master, the better--good for your brain, good for your general well-being.
Domestic Goddess. This thread got me to thinking back on my younger years, and the times when I learned how to do a new something. I definitely think I was born with old-fashioned blood in me, because ever since I can remember I have always been interested in all things domestic/home-front.
My mom once told me, "you can be a lazy/relaxed homemaker, but never (ever) should the kitchen or bathroom be dirty".
I can make all kinds of assumptions and speculations on what exactly (I think) is going on in our world today, and aside from rubbing a few raw, it doesn't change what's happening, but I do tend to think what we are seeing today in the way of lack of interest and general know-how, is the undoing of a society tainted and soiled with possession, materialistic ideals, and a lack of honest-to-goodness realism, particularly where the younger generation is concerned. A portrayal that continues to dupe our young and growing into believing that what awaits them is glitz and glamour and the easy life.
I kid you not, my husband would have starved if it weren't for me, even to this day. I've babied him way to much, but because I do he's never learned to fend for himself, and, although I don't hold that against him because I'm mostly to blame for his settled-in/laid-back ways, I do find it discerning that my boys (two oldest boys) are taking after him lock, stock, and barrel. No interest at all to learn, well, my oldest son is trying, a little. I taught him how to iron recently.
JaneV2.0. I so agree about the more one can learn the better. I remember an old neighbour of ours (back when I was a kid) always told us, "learn whatever you can, no matter what it is". At the time I never though much of it, but now, after all these years, his words are sure hitting home with me. "Yes, how right he was"...
I think alot of women who are probably your Mom's age (guessing 50 - 60 ish?) were most likely feminests who envisioned a less domestic life for their daughters. I've seen this alot. Moms who hope their daughters pursue non-traditional careers over marriage and family life - or at least along side marriage and family life. Many of those Moms didn't have those choices when young and often want to make sure their daughters take full advantage of all the opportunities available to them rather than be stuck in what they may consider a life of domestic drudgery being dependant on a man for everything. So they try to steer their daughter far away from anything domestic and into the life the mom's want for them. You see the same thing of older Mom's (say before the late 60's early 70's) who tried to steer their daughter toward traditional careers and marriage and a life of domesticity.
My mom is 69. I'm 42. She wasn't a feminist. Not even a baby boomer. Born in the first full year the US was in World War II. My dad was born just before the US entered World War II. She came from a poor family (baby of 15 LIVING children) because her dad ran off when she was a baby. She worked as a secretary/receptionst because she had to. When her mom died a year after my mom graduated from high school, mom went to live with an older married sister and her husband. She was the only one in the family to graduate from high school. She stopped working several months before she had me and then went back to work when I was in 7th grade.
I learned to cook from both of my parents and how to clean, organize and iron from my OCD grandma. I am glad I did.
My kids are learning life skills like cooking, cleaning and laundry. My oldest DD Cheyenne is 7 1/2 and can make omelets, quesadillas, oatmeal, macaroni and cheese, sandwiches, toast and scrambled eggs and is capable of slicing vegetables. All supervised, of course, but I don't have to do much but watch.
My oldest son, who is just two, really wants to help me with everything. He follows behind me with a rag wiping off cabinets and he gets really mad that he can't help me cook on the stove. He has even attempted to change the baby's diaper, which (OT) IMO means it's time to be potty trained. :)
My mom is 69. I'm 42. She wasn't a feminist. Not even a baby boomer. Born in the first full year the US was in World War II. My dad was born just before the US entered World War II. She came from a poor family (baby of 15 LIVING children) because her dad ran off when she was a baby. She worked as a secretary/receptionst because she had to. When her mom died a year after my mom graduated from high school, mom went to live with an older married sister and her husband. She was the only one in the family to graduate from high school. She stopped working several months before she had me and then went back to work when I was in 7th grade.
Sounds like my Mom - but she'd be 80 if she were alive. Wanted to be a very traditional SAHP but my Dad walked out on the family and left her to raise 3 youngish kids alone. She spent most of her life working 2 or even 3 jobs trying to support us kids because she didn't get any ailmony and only a tiny amount of child support and no home - we all moved into a 500 sf apt with my Grandma until my Mom could land a job/s and pay for a place for us to live - heck she didn't even drive! So even though her dream was traditional, circumstances forced her into a totally different life. I always wonder what women who are financially dependant on a husband would do if he just left? Especially if they have lots of young kids to raise. Maybe that's another reason that parents today shy away from teaching their daughter domestic skill - they probably want them to get a college education, pursue a career or learn a trade that they can fall back on if the bread winner decides to bail. Or maybe it's just that they see domestic chores as...well... chores that aren't fun to do (for many people - although I know that alot of people really enjoy it) and they want them to be done the fastest, easiest, and most convienant way possible so figure their kids will do things that way too.
Originally posted by Tradd.
She came from a poor family (baby of 15 LIVING children)Wow! Large than life families never fail to garner my attention.
That is awesome Stella, about your oldest daughter! She's definitely going to take after you, I can see it. Re: your oldest son attempting to change the baby's diaper, confirmed proof that disposables help promote (and encourage) men to help out with the changing! LMAO!
Spartana. When I hear and read about stories like the one surrounding your mom, I get so inspired and have such admiration for them. Just thinking about the pressure and stress involved, hard to imagine. It's just not right, but just knowing your mom had the drive and strength to continue and persevere. Amazing! Such a true hero and trooper she was.
Thanks Mrs. M - she was my hero! Even though we butted heads about my crazy untraditional life, I absolutely admired her for her strength and dedication to her family and children.
One area (I know) I falter, is being gender traditional when it comes to certain roles related to chores and things. It's as if I learned (thought my own raising and upbringing) that men don't (or shouldn't) do certain things, and as with a lot of things learned early on, I still carry those ideals and beliefs with me today.
I like the divide my husband and I share. He cuts the lawn and does home-maintenance (and things around the house), I do all the inside (womanly/child things). It serves as a most perfect balance of sorts and does work well for us, but deep down inside I know I'm biased when it comes to men doing certain things and women doing certain things. Definitely the old-fashioned coming out in me.
Bumping this thread this morning, because it's such a great read.
This is a fun topic to reread Mrs. M.
One thing I think Kay mentioned and I agree with is that there really is a renewed interest in domesticity in my generation and younger. Domestic arts are making a huge comeback, especially things like gardening, knitting, sewing, cooking, baking and the more "crafty" aspects of domesticity. The crafter culture is a big thing amongst the people I know and you can see a lot of it online and in books. My friends treat some mom bloggers like Soulemama, craft bloggers like The Angry Chicken and food bloggers like Pioneer Woman or Smitten Kitchen like celebrities. The pin tips on organization, recipes and crafts they want to try on Pinterest and set up Flickr streams of their latest creations.
I spent last weekend going to three yarn shops with my friend Mary to find exactly the right three colours of sock yarn to make the socks she wanted to make and at the locally owned craft store near my house, the staff member working greeted me by name and asked after the kids because I go there enough to have that kind of relationship with them.
I went to a seminar on urban chicken keeping and the meeting room of the coffee shop it was held at was overflowing. My 11 year old suburbanite cousin has a small egg business (Keegan's Koop) he runs out of his back yard.
I think there are very few people in between, though. There are those of us who pursue those kinds of skills with a passion and those who are completely inept and not a lot of in between.
Not sure what I am trying to say here but for many the home is the one place where one still has some control over how things are done. We must abide by other's rules at work and out in the world. The home is our kingdom where we can cook, craft, garden, raise chickens, decorate, and generally be as creative as we want. I am actually much more fond of domesticity as I get older - it's my haven from the world. I am proud of the domestic skills I do have - cooking, sewing, gardening, etc. They make me feel as if I am a producer and not just a consumer.
It is so much more satisfying to do and create rather than to consume. Food, household items, music, art. I have to admit, though, that I wish my home updating skills were better - either I'm just not skilled enough or I'm too much of a perfectionist. I am in awe of Fidgiegirl's house renovation!
DD and I spent the morning making a "dinner to go" for our annual church auction which is tomorrow. She is learning more and more in the kitchen and I think by the end of summer, when she'll be about 9 1/2, she'll be cooking dinner once/week.
Also we changed our plans for her upcoming birthday party. She was reading a book about volunteering, which she's already had a lot of exposure to because DH and I volunteer for several organizations. She wanted to make something to raise money for the cat shelter. We've talked about making cat toys before, and we'll still do that. But it occurred to me that a great project for all the crafty girls at her birthday party would be making fleece blankets for Project Linus, which distributes blankets to children of all ages who are in the hospital. I'll get the materials for 4 blankets, and the girls can work in teams. Then they can make each other some friendship bracelets and we'll have the standard cake and ice cream.
Rosemary that is a fantastic birthday party idea! I love it! My kids are similar to yours, relative to age and skill. I think they'll be about 9 1/2 by the time they can make dinner by themselves too. Some of that is as much about height and strength as it about skill, too.
pinkytoe, that is an excellent point about home being the are we have the most control over.
I think the point about being a producer rather than a consumer is a good one too. That's definitely something that motivates me.
Hi Stella. I too, have noticed a renewed interest in all things home (domestic), and it seems like there are more and more blogs (all the time), popping up (here and there), where the blog-owners/creators are excelling at all things traditional, and that's so nice to see. Like going back in time. As far as the in-between crowd goes, how right you are. "With" or "for", is how I see it.
Pinkytoe. I couldn't agree more with you. There have been times I've felt somewhat sheepish when answering others as to whether or not I work (outside the home). One side of me sort of feels like they are prying and undermining my dedication towards being at home with my children/for my family (something I enjoy), while the other side of me feels as though they are putting me down for my choices without actually coming out and saying so in exact words.
But, knowing my abilities when it comes to all things domestic, has such a way of taking the sting and bite out of the malignity a few so freely cast other peoples way, and in turn, whether people realize it or not, some (like myself), have a way of seeing through the darkness of pseudo holiness and sanctitude, quickly differentiating between those who are sincere, and those who's bridges of their noses glisten when they catechize.
It is that cryptic articulation that tells on so many as to their ineptness (even laziness) related to domesticity, and/or, their inability to compete on a financial scale/level, because they aren't willing to let go of a few materialistic things in order to enjoy a few of life's more simple things.
Rosemary. I wholeheartedly agree. I'm so proud of all the moms here (like yourself and so many others) who take pride in, and devote time to teaching and being the solid figures that you are in your homes.
Project Linus, sounds rewarding, but what a sad reminder it is, knowing so many kids aren't born with the grace of enjoying their childhoods as children should. (Playing, having fun, running freely, just being kids). Warms my heart to know there are people who care.
I do believe a lot of parents tend to forget the importance of early-learning (and teaching), and just how far it goes- and carries children along in life, and the value of those early teachings and sessions of guidance and learnings in relation to the expanded and cultivated generational likeness such groundwork encourages.
There have been times I've felt somewhat sheepish when answering others as to whether or not I work (outside the home).
Mrs. M - you should never feel sheepish about choosing to stay home and raise and family and care for a home. It is one of the hardest (THE hardest IMHO) jobs anyone could have - requiring an almost non-stop, never ending amount of work/caring 24/7, and a dedication level that most 9 to 5 ers will never have for their jobs. Us working stiff have a life of "After 8 (hours a day), we recreate (or wreckreate ;-)" - can't say that about a stay at home parent! Be proud of what you do for your family, your home and yourself!
Awww... thanks, Spartana. Words like yours help warm my spirit.
I guess I don't see cleaning, laundry or cooking as "womanly" skills. I think every young adult should know the basics of these, as well as how to change a tire, understand a bank statement, and jumpstart a car safely. I don't think either gender is being served by remaining ignorant of the basics of life.Ditto! I would simply refer to them as "domestic skills" which would include basic auto maintenance, home financial management, etc.
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