View Full Version : When Someone In Debt Passes Away?
jennipurrr
9-28-11, 9:54pm
MIL's health is failing her...she is on chemo for her hepatitis c, but she will not discuss it. DH is brokenhearted by her appearance (she is losing her hair and has lost a lot of weight) and he has been going to alanon, but it still really upsets him, now especially, how she continues to damage her body with her lifestyle.
DH is the executor of her estate and he is a very strong person, but if she does not make it through this, I can already feel its going to be extremely hard on him emotionally, more so than most people I think. So, I want to help and be the practical one. Maybe that sounds absurd, or cold, but I don't intend it to. I guess it is my way of dealing with the situation. As much as MIL and I have disagreed over the years, it is heartbreaking to see her in this condition and especially to have my husband hurt this much.
Does anyone here have experience with a death where the person's assets could not cover their outstanding debts? What happens in this case? I googled it and the internets basically told me probate would sort it out, hire an estate attorney...an attorney?! They don't exactly work for free. What about money in accounts (in this case there likely isn't any/much...) can that be used to pay for the funeral? I know much more is owed on the house than its value and a lot of credit cards. There is a car that she owns outright and a beach condo in which she owns 1/3 of which is held in some sort of trust, I believe. The other owners of that are her boyfriend and her sister. There is not much but some equity in it (maybe 10,000 her share). Is there anything we could do to prepare for this? Not likely, but just brainstorming. Maybe we do need to speak to an attorney...but I would not put DH through that until she does pass.
Also, I fear DH's siblings will be outraged if her stake in the condo/car/house must be sold or let go of. I am sure they feel entitled to get something. One BIL has lived with her for 10 years and right now the house she owns is in unlivable shape and they both live with her boyfriend. I guess that's the family part of the post. DH and I watched my Mom and siblings fight over ridiculous items when my grandparents passed away and said at that time he knows it will be bad when the time comes. I don't really know how to even begin to deal with that issue. Open lines of communication??? That's not exactly something that is done in that family sadly.
If I am putting the cart before the horse, please tell me that too. You guys may know by now I am a worrier.
fidgiegirl
9-28-11, 9:58pm
I don't know any of the answers, but wanted to offer a hearty hug for you and your DH. (((((jennipurrr)))))
basically -- if i'm remembering law correctly (it's been a decade since i was in law school) -- all of the assets are sold to pay the debt, and if nothing remains, then that's that. the debt doesn't get passed on to the next generation (thank goodness), but that means that there won't be any assets for you guys to have.
of course, you'll likely get to keep things with no value -- like family photos and the like. . . the things with sentimental value. otherwise, yeah, it all gets sold and goes to the creditors.
oh, and whatever is in trust is subject to the rules of the trust -- in some cases, if a person dies, then their share automatically goes to the remaining living people -- and this usually isn't a matter of the will/estate, but separate. it really depends upon the trust, though.
essentially, you can't use anything to pay for the funeral from her assets, until after the court has worked through and paid the creditors.
so, next thing, talk to a funeral home and find out the cost of a the most basic service. EG, my grandfather was cremated, no box/urn, and they had the memorial at his home. Total cost was around $3000. But, htis was YEARS ago. my GFIL was also cremated, but had an urn, and his total cost was about $6000. funerals are very expensive overall, but talking to some funeral directors about your situation, and you may come out ok. you may be able to -- as a family -- come up with the several thousand needed to get her cremated at least.
iris lily
9-29-11, 12:26am
If your husband is that emotional about her situation he probably cannot rationally talk about how any end of life event and a funeral, would be funded, but he should be talking. For me, the key would be to make sure that he doesn't throw tons of money at a big splashy funeral for her, tons of my hard earned money. I suppose it's impossible that she would prepay a funeral, because that would be the smart, rational thing to do. I've found that there is a relationship between families that can deal practically with money matters and their overall ability to deal in a convivial way with one another.
I'm sorry that he is the executor because his problematic family members will undoubtedly refuse to accept that she has negative net worth. Even though there is nothing to divide or fight over, they will find something. They will accuse him of taking her money. It's especially problematic that she's got a little money tied in with real estate that's not soley hers. Your husband will be pressured to get that money out, free it up. What a mess.
iris lily
9-29-11, 12:34am
...the most basic service. EG, my grandfather was cremated, no box/urn, and they had the memorial at his home. Total cost was around $3000. ...
Every time this subject comes up on this list I have to chime in. Here in my city, 1/2 mile away, the crematorium charges $550 for disposing of a body and giving the remains in a cardboard box. This includes transporting the body from a hospital or morgue. The "memorial " service can be totally free. There's nothing that needs to cost anything.
Pick a designated time and place (public park, for instance) invite a couple of people to say a few words, have someone say a prayer if that's the will of the group,and voila it's done. But people seldom go that route.
nice. go directly to the source.
in some states, you have to go with/through a funeral home, but if you can go straight to the crematorium, all the better.
My mom had an insurance policy ($10,000) to cover her funeral cost but owned a house that was falling down AND still had a mortgage of $68,000! Senior citizens, gambling & mortgage refinancing-an equation for disaster. Check to see if there is a life insurance policy of any kind...you might be surprised. Sold the house to a flipper for same as mortgage but we had to pay mortgage payments, tax bills, heating for about 7-8 months because of probate (curse them all!!!!) I asked sisters to chip in some $ to help her in the last months but I took a hit for several thousand dollars during probate which our accountant said could not be used for a tax deduction. If she has credit card debt, the debt dies with her as long as there isn't another name on the card. Do not promise to pay them anything!!! The most you may have to do is send them a certified death cert. I had to have the lawyer write to one place to tell them to stop bothering me. Anything that puts a lien on the property I believe has to be paid. Probate was awful and since my mother was poor, I had no compensation. I'm glad I did it and my sisters were grateful. We will be looking into revokable living trusts for our estate because of this whole probate thing. I also lost out on a little of the direct grieving process because of her financial mess.
We are trying to get MIL to sell her house asap so that she won't have a house in probate when she dies. She's 93 and totally on board with this. Hope my story will help you and others. Hugs to you and DH and MIL.
flowerseverywhere
9-29-11, 7:22am
I thought about this after reading your story last night. You have gotten some good advice regarding funerals. You could quietly make some inquiries to funeral homes/crematoriums etc. to have some back-up information. You can also gently ask DH what he thinks about it. You don't know what he wants. He may want a big funeral for his own sake so he can let go and have closure, some people do. I personally loved Iris Lilly's idea for myself, but like Zoebird stated, you may have state laws to deal with.
As he is executor, when the time comes he can make an appointment with an attorney who specializes in these things. Since there are other people who own property with her and people living in her home they stand to lose a lot. After he presents everything to the attorney he can talk with the attorney about having a meeting with the assorted players and telling everyone about the estate and how it is to be disposed, what his fees will be, what creditors need to be paid etc.. It does not have to come out of DH's mouth, because if it does he will be the villian. Also, do you think he can talk to her about changing the executor at this time. Why did she pick him if she has a son living with her and she owns property with her sister? Maybe she can appoint your BIL.
Lastly, although it is really painful, sometimes families do break up over estates. I know siblings who still don't talk and the parents died over 25 years ago. I know when my in-laws die there is a daughter who is convinced that the house (which is packed from basement to the rafters with junk like chipped china, old moldy books, broken chairs, those meat trays you get at the grocery store which I don't know why you would save, stained tablecloths, plastic flowerpots from spring planting etc.) is full of precious valuable items worth a fortune and she will be rich rich rich. After having gone to estate auctions I know that items go for pennies on the dollar, and the chance of being the one who shows up at Antiques Roadshow with something insanely valuable is about as likely as purchasing a million dollar lottery ticket. So I told DH that I will support whatever he wants to do when the time comes, but to be prepared that she may want everything in the house and be very upset and disappointed when there is literally nothing to be had except for a house in poor repair in a deteriorating section of town to be sold and a small bank account. Once you add in attorney fees, realtor fees and split everything up five ways it will amount to very little.
Unless someone has co-signed, the debts are only paid insofar as the deceased has assets to cover them. The creditors write the rest off. Paying funeral/cremation expenses comes before the debt. In Florida, accounts that have a beneficiary on them cannot be reached to pay debt, so an account with a beneficiary goes to the heir even if creditors remain unpaid. Other states may differ.
Can you approach this as planning on being the objective sounding board for your DH who is executor. Get the info as part of being a human who knows that death happens in a family and deals with it by being well informed for when the time comes. Clear your emotion out of the picture so that you can be helpful in a detached manner!
Stay out of the family dynamics completely! Quietly get the facts on funerals, probate, legal fees and list of appropriate lawyers and then step back. It will be hard but your DH has played a part in this family and that role will not change.
Be very clear, however, that any cost to your family must be discussed with you. He cannot commit without your informed consent to any expenses beyond the most basic for human dignity.
iris lily
9-29-11, 10:09am
...Paying funeral/cremation expenses comes before the debt...
Does it? That's the central question here, at least, it's the central monetary question, assuming that the OP's MIL does have negative net worth.
I don't know and there seems to be disagreement.
jennipurrr
9-29-11, 10:28am
Thank you for all the replies. I appreciate everyone's caring words. I feel like we are not flying so blind but I still feel like this will be so much more messy than it should be. I don't think we are going to get a true picture of the finances until the time comes. I really like the idea of researching things and then letting it be...just having the info when the time comes and DH needs it. I have no interest in becoming involved in the family dynamics here...ugh.
Big thanks to Iris Lilly! I called a local crematorium just to see if you can go directly through them and they have a very similar package here. It is $950 and basically covers transport, filing of the death certificate, cremation and a small box. I am not sure what DH/MIL/the family wants, but I am glad to know this info as neither of DH's brothers have money to pay for a funeral, so it will probably be entirely on us. DH is as practical as I am about money and we both want to be cremated, so I can't imagine him getting all weird about a huge funeral, but you never know...I am sure the nonpaying members of the family will want it to go all out, of course, since its not their money. MIL is not religious, and she loves the beach, so maybe something simple there. I am sure some people in the family won't like it though. DH has always been the "responsible" one in the family which is why he is the executor. His brother that lives with MIL is barely functional. It would be a load off us to have him as executor, but I Know it would be a disaster in the end. I feel like MIL's boyfriend may take over some of the funeral stuff when the time comes, but I don't really know. They have been together a long time, but they are not married. So, I'm not sure how he will respond when the time comes.
jennipurrr
9-29-11, 10:30am
Does it? That's the central question here, at least, it's the central monetary question, assuming that the OP's MIL does have negative net worth.
I don't know and there seems to be disagreement.
Yes, I have not been able to find a definitive answer. The answer more likely lies in the fact that MIL is in overdraft more often than not, so I doubt there will be money in the accounts.
catherine
9-29-11, 11:21am
From what I understand, the heirs will not be entitled to anything if the debt exceeds the assets. But maybe a lawyer could figure out how to pass along the real estate--have the heirs take over the mortgage or something? I don't know, but I do know the creditors get paid from the estate before the money goes anywhere.
Gardenarian
9-29-11, 5:26pm
I'm so sorry to hear about your MIL. Is it too late for her to make a living trust? That would probably cost about $2000, but then nothing would end up in probate. Have you tried contacting your local bar association? They can be very helpful.
Best of luck.
My mom had an insurance policy ($10,000) to cover her funeral cost but owned a house that was falling down AND still had a mortgage of $68,000! Senior citizens, gambling & mortgage refinancing-an equation for disaster. Check to see if there is a life insurance policy of any kind...you might be surprised. Sold the house to a flipper for same as mortgage but we had to pay mortgage payments, tax bills, heating for about 7-8 months because of probate (curse them all!!!!) ...
I don't mean to be argumentative, but I have to ask, why did you pay mortgage and upkeep? If your MIL's estate couldn't pay the expenses of the house, why put in your own money? Maybe there is missing information here, but it seems wise to me to take no action if there is essentially no worth to the estate. If probate court is going to take forever to close the estate, so be it, the debt incurred is on them (morally.)
I'm so sorry to hear about your MIL. Is it too late for her to make a living trust? That would probably cost about $2000, but then nothing would end up in probate. Have you tried contacting your local bar association? They can be very helpful.
Best of luck.
There is no worth to the estate. Why throw money at something to preserve nothing?
chrisgermany
9-30-11, 3:45am
Before accepting the task of an executor your DH should study the dos and don'ts of that position and invest in a book on that (Nolo press?) or even in an hour with a specialist lawyer, just to protect himself against expensive mistakes.
Iris, I did go to the bank and ask them if we could stop making mortgage payments and they said no. Believe me I wanted to go in there and hand them the keys and say "it's yours!" My sisters and I were trying to sell even for a little more than it was worth...there is a word called hope even for us kids of poor parents. I also kept the heat on at a minimum as it was winter and I didn't want the pipes to freeze and a freezing cold junky house shows very poorly. Someone out there tell me that you've actually gone through what I have and come away with some sort of inheritance.
iris lily
9-30-11, 10:03am
Iris, I did go to the bank and ask them if we could stop making mortgage payments and they said no. Believe me I wanted to go in there and hand them the keys and say "it's yours!" My sisters and I were trying to sell even for a little more than it was worth...there is a word called hope even for us kids of poor parents. I also kept the heat on at a minimum as it was winter and I didn't want the pipes to freeze and a freezing cold junky house shows very poorly. Someone out there tell me that you've actually gone through what I have and come away with some sort of inheritance.
I see, you were expecting to salvage something out of the estate before you knew there really wasn't anything. That explains it.
And keeping the pipes form freezing is a good act regardless. Frozen, burst pipes create all kinds of damage and devalue the house immediately. I know, we've got multiple friends who live in row houses. Their houses are attached to houses where people walked away from the mortgage and utilities, and there was real danger that the homes of our friends would be flooded when the pipes burst next door.
In one case DH was able to turn off water at the street level for one of those abandoned properties, but the other situation had our friends worrying throughout the winter. It was a mess.
jennipurrr
9-30-11, 11:59am
Thank you for all the replies. Merski, I totally understand where you are coming from...I know things are going to be much more difficult for DH than just making the best black and white financial descion. I think the house is going to be an albatross. I have the gut feeling that BIL will want to move back in, but could not qualify for a mortgage nor even keep up the payments, much less do the needed repairs to make it livable, so this is going to be a mess in addition to just dealing with a house worth less than its loan.
DH surprised me and wanted to generally discuss the situation last night after had called his brother and they talked about MIL's health (some of that went well, other parts not so well). He knows the aftermath of things will be a mess financially,and he does not even want to think about it until he hears concretely from her mouth that the dr has said xxx time to live, even though he knows we are likely nearing that point, if she isn't already past it. He wants to still have hope.
I have been mulling over this scenario....I am no attorney, and I wonder if she would even consider it, the best thing for her finances in the present and for the estate may be for her to stop paying on the house now. She is unable to work because of her health, so she had no income for months now. I believe her boyfriend is paying the mortgage payment. We are in a recourse state, but I wonder if the mortgage company would even bother to come after her? She is destitute and has no likelihood of income in the future. The loan balance is probably about $75,000 and the house is worth maybe $40,000 in its current condition. Then by the time she did pass away possibly the foreclosure would be settled and month to month right now she wouldn't have to worry about throwing money away on the monthly payment. That would certainly leave one less thing for the estate to deal with. Who knows...? Just thinking out loud here.
Before accepting the task of an executor your DH should study the dos and don'ts of that position and invest in a book on that (Nolo press?) or even in an hour with a specialist lawyer, just to protect himself against expensive mistakes.
Yes, get the NoloP Press book from the library called "How to Probate an Estate" (f you are in Calif they have a book called "How to Probate an Estate in Calif"). It will walk you thru the probate process and give you specific info for your state. I was the executor for my Mom's small estate (approx. $150K) and the Trustee for my Dad's trust so know WAY more than I ever wanted to. Here's some info that may apply to you guys:
1) not all assets have to go thru probate. Things that have a beneficiary named like IRA's, 401Ks, pensions, life insurance, etc... don't have to be included in probate and can pass directly to the beneficiary. Also, you can name a beneficiary on any bank asnd credit union accounts (savings, checking, money market, etc...) and they too will by-pass probate. Contact the bank for info on a POD (Pay on Death) form to name beneficiaries. Otherwise any bank accounts funds will become part of the "probatable assets" which not only increases the dollar amount of probate assets (of which legal fees are based on) but will freeze those accounts so you can't access them - often times without the Probate Courts approval. Also, in Calif, you can name a benificary to your vehicles, boats, RV's mobile homes, etc... and they won't have to go thru probate either. Check with your local Dept of Motor vehicles to see if that's the case in you state. Unfortunately, most states (except Oregon I think) do not allow you to name a beneficary to real property. Real property will either go to who ever shares joint title, or will have to go thru probate.
2) legal fees: In Calif, attorney fees to probate an estate is based on a set statutory rate set by law and you can't be charged more or less than that amount: i.e. 5% of the first $100k in probatable assets, 4% on the next $100K, 3% on the next $100K, etc.. So if you have a $200K estate, you will be charged approx. $9,000 in lawyer fees. The executor is also entitled to recieve the same fee unless they voluntarily waive it. And be aware that the amount of assets is NOT reduced by the amount of debt. So if you have $200K in assets and $300K in debt, the "probabte amount" (nd fees based on that amount)are not reduced by that debt. Usually all those fees are paid out of the decease's assets, and are paid first before any other debts, but if there is nothing to pay legal fees then I'm not sure who pays for that - definetely check that out. The executor or family of the decease NEVER has to pay for anything themselves, and usually set up a seperate estate bank account with it's own tax payer ID number (and yes you'll have to do estate taxes or pay someone to do them each year the estate is open - another expense) but I'm not sure how that stuff is covered if there are no assets to pay them. Each state has a pre-determined way to pay for estate assets (lawyer, executor, taxes, funeral paid first, morgages, debts paid last - using cash assets first, selling personal assets next, and real estate last - somewhere along those lines)
3) Bsides the lawyer and executor fees and estate taxes and the deceases final personal income taxes, there are other fees too like home (or other asset) appraisals, newspaper ad (have to anounce to the world that your estate is going thru probate) and a few other things that can cost several hundred dollars or more. Same with taking care of any assets, like a house, while they are in probate. property taxes, insurances, utilities, and maintenance have to be done. Again, these are normally taken out of the estate assets but if there's no money then ???? You'll also have to do an inventory of all the deceased personal assets and assign them a value (big hassle if they have alot of stuff). This value is added to the house value, vehicle value, and all other probatable assets to determine the total value of the estate to be probated (and therefore the total cost to probate the estate). So if you can reduce (sell transfer, name a beneficiary, etc..) some of those thing before death the better.
4) if you have assets in more than one state, you have to do a seperate probate in each state. And while the feds don't have an estate or inheritence tax until you get in the millions of bucks, many states (not Calif) DO have state inheritence taxes that will have to be paid (again assuming there is anything left to inheriet).
Lots of other little and big things to deal with too. Normally I try to talk people into getting a revocable living trust since it is SOOOO much easier and cheaper to deal with since it by-passes the entire probate court system (and all the related costs and hassles) and everything goes directly to the beneficiaries. However, one good thing about probate is that this way the court will deal with all the creditors and you are left out of it. the court decides who will get paid and in what order they will get paid - if at all - and how any remaining assets are divided up to the beneficaries (according to the will - make sure you have a good will since everything that happens in probate is based on that), But if you have a trust, then you, as the trustee, will have to personally deal with all the creditors as well as family. Also, if hubby doesn't want to be the executor, he can turn it down and it can go to another family member or the court will assign someone to do it (and get the fee). Hope this helps - good luck and sorry to hear about your MIL.
I have been mulling over this scenario....I am no attorney, and I wonder if she would even consider it, the best thing for her finances in the present and for the estate may be for her to stop paying on the house now. She is unable to work because of her health, so she had no income for months now. I believe her boyfriend is paying the mortgage payment. We are in a recourse state, but I wonder if the mortgage company would even bother to come after her? She is destitute and has no likelihood of income in the future. The loan balance is probably about $75,000 and the house is worth maybe $40,000 in its current condition. Then by the time she did pass away possibly the foreclosure would be settled and month to month right now she wouldn't have to worry about throwing money away on the monthly payment. That would certainly leave one less thing for the estate to deal with. Who knows...? Just thinking out loud here.
If you can get the MIL to get rid of the house and any other assets she has, you won't have to go thru probate at all. :Letting the bank take it back may be the best thing she (and your DH) can do. As far as the BIL wanting to live there, well,,, if the court is in charge then that probably won't happen since it will just go back to the bank anyways. Try hard to get MIL to put as much of her assets into some form that doesn't have to go thru probate and dump the house if possible. As far as funeral expenses, well I would suggest a simple cremation and burial at sea - or have her ashes returned and scatter them yourselves. Both my parents had this and it only cost a few hundred dollars - which included picking up the body from the hospital, cremation (no casket or viewing or service), and dispersal at sea (again no service) or return of the ashes. If your MIL is a military vet (or had been married to one) then she or her ashes can often be buried or interned at a VA cemetery at no or little cost. There is also a very small ($225) you can get back from the Soc Secuity admin.
And one more thought since we are on the subject - probate vs. trusts: My Mom had a simple estate valued at approx. a 150K consisting of a paid for seniors co-op apt, some cash in a saving account and no debt. It took well over a year to settle the estate and cost approx. $8,000 in legal fees as well as over a years worth of paying her monthly co-op association fees, property taxes, insurance, and utilities as well as maintaining the place while it was for sale. So while sis and I did inheriet (sp?) the bulk of her estate, it was reduced by over $11,000 because it went thru probate. If she had a trust, everything would have gone directly to us as soon as we had the death certificate (less than a month). No fees, no hassle. After experiencing the probate process, I talked my Dad (who had a similair estate as my Mom - paid for house, cash in the bank, no debt) into getting a revocable living Trust (cost him about $1200) and boy is that the way to go! As soon as I got the death certificate we (sis and I) were able to go to the bank and withdraw the cash, and transfer title of his property to our name (we kept the place for awhile). And because it didn't have to go thru probate, I was able to transfer his car over into my name with just a simple form from the DMV. Easy. So for anyone contemplating a trust (a revocable living trust which can be changed at any time by you) I'd highly recommend it.
jennip--I think that's great that you are thinking outside of the box about your MIL defaulting on her house payments now. That does seem like the practical thing to do. And also, the advice about your DH considering to turn down the executor role seems like something he should at least consider.
My mother died recently and it was easy for us. My brother sent a check for 1/2 of 95% of her estate within 3 weeks of her death. Her assets were all in financial instruments with both of our names on them. He is wrapping up the rest of her estate and i don't believe probate is coming into it at all, not sure. There is less than $15,000 still out there to disburse. We had some odds and ends to finalize after the sale of her house (said sale took place before her death.)
I am impressed by the good information everyone has offered. I was executor of my father's estate and used a lawyer to handle probate and various other issues and invaluable advice. Dad didn't have any debt, but owned a house, car, a handful of stocks, IRAs, plus several bank accounts, most of which had a beneficiary. The lawyer's fees were less than a thousand dollars and worth every penny of it. I'm sure the more complicated things get the higher the fee. If you know of a lawyer you can trust or friends recommend with a reasonable fee it might be worth seeking professional advice. Especially good if someone is pretty emotional and having difficulties with decisions.
jennipurrr
10-4-11, 11:43am
Thanks Spartana for all the info and the book suggestion. I would love DH to pass on the executor role. His mother does have a sister who could fill it if she would agree, but I feel like DH will probably accept out of a feeling of duty. I've been trying not to dwell on it, even if we foot the bill for the funeral and it costs us some money for an attorney and headache of dealing with it, it is his mother after all. We are seeing MIL this weekend and she usually gripes about the house so maybe we'll bring up the idea of letting the house go.
thatnks for that, spartana.
jennipurrr, how are thigs going for you and DH? Still thinking about you and what you will be facing. Hugs to you both.
Another piece of advice that I've learned from my father, who will be dying at some point in the next few years (he's 82 and a lifelong smoker whose lungs have been failing for several years now) is that one should have a bank account that has the executor's name on it also so that they can access at least a portion of the recently deceased's money to pay for last expenses like a funeral. Depending on the OP's MIL they may not be able to get her to agree to such, but it would be a big help to them if her DH could.
jennipurrr
10-18-11, 10:02am
Merski, thanks for thinking of us! Not much new here. DH has not discussed anything with his Mom and doesn't plan to right now. We both went to Alanon the other week and the topic was about acceptance, so that was pretty timely. DH did have a good talk with his aunt, but it was more about boundaries and that he will not be present if MIL is drinking and we won't drink in front of her. DHs aunt and uncle are two of the few stable people in his family without substance problems.
Two weeks ago MIL told us she was taking a spur of the moment trip to Houston to visit DH's brother. She told DH's aunt that she was going to get a second opinion at MD Anderson to confirm that everything was going well with her treatment....hmmmm. Likely she was going to get a second opinion, but I've known several people travel to MD Anderson and they all were in the last stages of cancer. She came to town the next evening and we went to dinner with her and other members of DHs family. MIL did not drink at dinner (I have NEVER seen her do that, ever) so it was either out of respect for DH or likely the Dr finally scared her? I don't believe her body is physically capable of not drinking at this stage though. I think she needs to go to treatment/detox. The rest of the crowd (DH's brother, MIL's boyfriend, MILs sister/boyfriend...not the aunt DH talked to) were drinking heavily so I feel for MIL how hard it must be when she has absolutely no support. MIL has lost a lot of weight and is losing her hair, so that was hard for DH to see in person. We are just continuing on until we hear different. I think the holidays are going to be tough this year.
iris lily
10-18-11, 4:47pm
Only tangentially related to this topic, but I watched a documentary called A Certain Kind of Death about people who die in Los Angeles County with no next of kin. The county swoops in and gathers their stuff, catalogs it, holds it for a while, and then if no one claims it, sells it and adds the proceeeds to the deseased person's estate. They charge $750 for this service to the estate.
They hold the body in the morgue for some time (weeks?) and then after a period has passed and no one claims it, they cremate the body. They hold ashes for 2+ years and if no one (AGAIN!) comes forward to claim their relative, they bury the ashes.
They've got about 1600 cases like this each year.
jennipurrr
10-19-11, 11:50am
Oh wow that sounds so interesting to me, in a morbidly fascinating way.
I may have mentioned this before but we bought one of our rentals on the courthouse steps in a foreclosure sale. When we bought it I felt sort of bad because I I knew the owner had died and figured she must have been financial trouble. Afterward when we were doing the paperwork the lawyer filled us in on all the family drama (a prominent family in town, blacksheep sister passed away) and how the estate was tied up in court so they ordered the property sold because this woman left nothing to the family and everything in a trust to her dog!
we created a trust for our rabbit.
actually, it was funny. we left the rabbit as a chattel to a specific friend, and with that a trust fund to them for the care and keeping of the rabbit until it's passing, which was presided over by a vet (to determine that it was appropriate to euthanize, etc), and then when the rabbit died, they would inherit the remainder.
so, i technically left everything to the rabbit.
currently, our will is set up to create a couple of trusts. First, there is where DS would go should anything happen to us, with two back-ups in case the first two are unable to care for DS. Then, there is a trust to be managed by them for his education, which has specific and general stipulations. This will be provided over by a child psychologist and educator -- a friend of mine. The second trust is really hawk's inheritance, which is our business and other assets, which will be managed by another friend of mine (and prominent businessman himself), until Hawk is of age to decide what he wants to do with it.
When Hawk comes of age -- that is, finishes high school -- then a portion of the trust goes toward DS's university/techincal/whatever education, and then the remainder goes to our friends (caregivers). When Hawk comes of age for the second trust (which is our business, etc), then our friend receives an honorarium for a percentage of the business based on growth from the year of our passing.
This is to incentivize the parties to do well for Hawk, while also being frugal and good business folks, etc.
My lawyer gave me the eyebrow when i asked him to set up our wills this way. Which is basically all trusts. And really, our only assets are the retirement/savings and the business, so it kinda takes care of everything.
Only tangentially related to this topic, but I watched a documentary called A Certain Kind of Death about people who die in Los Angeles County with no next of kin. The county swoops in and gathers their stuff, catalogs it, holds it for a while, and then if no one claims it, sells it and adds the proceeeds to the deseased person's estate. They charge $750 for this service to the estate.
They hold the body in the morgue for some time (weeks?) and then after a period has passed and no one claims it, they cremate the body. They hold ashes for 2+ years and if no one (AGAIN!) comes forward to claim their relative, they bury the ashes.
They've got about 1600 cases like this each year.
Not having any relatives but a younger sis (3 years younger) this will be me - ha ha! I actually have a pretty good will. It leaves everything to my sister, and if she passes away before me, to Best Friends Animal Sancuary in Kanab, Utah. Sis has the same. Although I do hope I die before her as she is a clutter-bug and I don't want to go thru all her stuff ;-)! My only real concern is if sis died before me and I die alone at home or in some remote place where no one realizes I'm missing or finds me for ages. Guess if she goes before me then I'll have to get one of those Lifeline thingies at home.
My only real concern is if sis died before me and I die alone at home or in some remote place where no one realizes I'm missing or finds me for ages. Guess if she goes before me then I'll have to get one of those Lifeline thingies at home.
Except you can't press the button when you are dead. ;^)
Except you can't press the button when you are dead. ;^)
Oh darn I knew there was a catch :-)! Actually I checked them out for my mom once and how they work is that you call in when you get up and then again when you go to bed so they know you are OK. Then if an emergency happens you can press the button ("Help! I've fallen and I can't get up!"). Wouldn't work for me as I'm out and about to much (i.e. away from home travelling) but sis and I call in just a quick "I'm Alive" message each day to each other on our cell phones from where ever we are or if we go out to some remote area alone.
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