Grief counselors?

[Tradd]

When did the thinking begin that today's kids are so incapable of dealing with the death that grief/crisis counselors have to be brought into the schools if a classmate dies?

http://rivals.yahoo.com/highschool/blog/prep_rally/post/Prep-cheerleader-collapses-during-game-dies-at-?urn=highschool-wp6582

I was reading the above story and it just set me off. I can understand a little better bringing in the grief/crisis counselors if there has been a massive tragedy, such as an entire team being wiped out in a bus crash or something similar.

I remember reading other news stories over recent years about cases where a teenager was killed in a car crash and the grief/crisis counselors were brought into the schools. I think I've even heard of grief counselors being brought in when a student died of cancer.

Parents seeking out a grief counselor if their child needs it is one thing, but it seems that schools think a grief counselor is the automatic default in many instances of a student dying.

Death is an inevitable part of life and it's very sad when a child dies, but I have to scratch my head at the thinking that parents/family/friends can't help a child get through grief, only the professionals can do it.

Maybe I'm not expressing myself clearly enough, but it seems to me that this is just another example of a normal part of life being made abnormal and turned over to the "professionals."

[goldensmom]

Good question, Tradd. My husband and I discuss this question frequently. We both experienced deaths of classmates in elementary and high school with no grief counselors. I experienced the death of 2 siblings while I was in school with no grief counseling. We think we weathered the experiences well with no professional intervention. I am also interested in others insights.

[Tradd]

Goldensmom, I'm at least glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this.

[mschrisgo2]

Well, yes, death is a part of the life cycle and should be expected. Children should be prepared to deal with it effectively.

Having been a classroom teacher for quite a few years, I sincerely wish we had had grief counselors available where I taught. It is a relatively "new" field - and one that I believe is very needed.

When I was a kid and someone in our community died, we dealt with it as a community- shops were closed, families stayed together for a few days, the funeral was held within 3-4 days and everyone was in that church. Usually only the family and very close friends of the deceased went to the cemetery. But grieving was a community affair and there were many people available to help teach the children to process and understand.

Now, there is far less church attendance, people do not know one another, grief is seldom a community undertaking -- instead, the kids are sent to school, where one teacher is expected to deal with all of the aspects of it for every 28-35 kids.

In this day and age of fast media coverage, we have a tremendous amount of information circulated, and often no one but the classroom teacher to help the kids understand it. In the case of sudden death of a peer, that is simply TOO MUCH to expect the teacher (who probably has his/her own grief to work through) to do with all of the kids. Hence, the implementation of grief counselors. I say HOORAY!!

[Float On]

mschrisgo2 said it much better than I could say it but I too am glad that there are now grief counselors available. So many children nowaday have no 'support system' they can go to. A 2 parent family with one parent home full-time is not very common these days. Kids need someone to talk to. When I was in elementary school a child died on some of our playground equipment (having an asphalt playground was not a good idea in the first place). What I remember was going out the door nearest where he died and seeing blood on the sidewalk but no one ever mentioned him, it was all hush-hush. We didn't know what to think or do about his death. I just remember a lot of us pretended to be sick for the next few weeks to avoid going out to the playground during recess time.

I will probably go back to school once my kids are finished with high school and will work on some sort of counseling/therapy degree. I already have a degree in recreation, was a youth pastor for years and am very interested in recreation therapy which is a pretty narrow field but even if I work on a broader counseling field I would probably be most interested in working with Jr High/Sr High age kids.

[Karma]

If it helps the kids why not?

[Stella]

I can see both sides of the argument. I do tend to be bothered by the idea that a lot of things that were once handled by a community are now considered the realm of professionals, and I am bothered that in a lot of places there is a real lack of support systems for children.

That said, death is a difficult thing to process for children and having someone available for them to speak with seems like a reasonable idea to me. The spring I was 7 years old a teenage neighbor of mine set fire to his house and shot himself in the head. We saw the firetrucks and the body bag. By fall we had bought his house and moved in. I actually still live there, but it took years of processing what happened before I was really OK about it. I couldn't sleep for about two years. Even as a teen I had to visit his grave and look at his picture in the library yearbook. My parents thought that was silly. It would have been nice to have someone to talk to who understood how jarring it had been.

[JaneV2.0]

This is a complete mystery to me, too. If there's anything more personal than grief, I can't imagine what it might be. But I guess it's a job opportunity for someone...

[Zoebird]

first, i have to say that -- as a discipline -- i really support psychology. the research is fascinating and ever-changing, and so i think that today, we have more skills and assets at our disposal to be happy individuals than my parents generation or the generations before them.

in the past, you just hid, or lived with, or denied whatever upset you. This could be any manner of things, from being nearly beaten to death by your mother -- who suffered from PPD -- with a hot iron, to rape and incest, to the death of loved ones, to the bullying at school, or whatever else. none of this was ever necessarily worked, through, and thereby never really lived through.

my FIL has nightmares due to what he believes was childhood abuses and traumas, but he refuses to seek help. his mind is speaking to him, but he does not want to be happy or healthy in this regard -- there's too much shame for him to go and get help. And, to be sure, while he is a "nice guy" in a lot of ways, they are actually evil, as described by M. Scott Peck in The Road Less Traveled and further explored in People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil. Evil people cannot tolerate their imperfection, and usually make subtle acts of sabotage or blaming/shaming onto scapegoats (typically their children), while maintaining a high level of 'respectability' and "normalcy."

Bottom line is that many people -- in general -- simply are unhappy and unhealthy. And many of them don't really know it. They just think "that's how life is." And maybe it is, but I don't think so.

Thus, with the rise of psychology, there is the study of how there are actual, happy well adjusted people and how there are unhappy, maladjusted -- though decent and respectable -- people. How do decent, respectable, normal, moral, church-going people like my ILs raise a neurotic angry adult son who is steeped in suppressed shame and rage and a daughter who has an eating disorder and several addictions? How do their neighbors, equally respectable, have a son serving a life sentence in prison for having killed his girlfriend in a drug-related circumstance? It doesn't make sense. If they were happy, well adjusted people -- to an extent, they would have had a better change of raising happy, well adjusted children.

And it's not to say that it's "all their fault" but they won't take ANY blame -- it's genetic, it's incurable, it happened because of the school, or this boyfriend, or that treatment center's horrible psychologist. it has NOTHING to do with their behaviors, their parenting, their way of life.

And they have no coping skills. Everything is shunted aside, or passed off onto scapegoats.

And, of course, even if they would seek treatment -- which they generally don't -- it is apparently very difficult to treat them at all, because they simply cannot come near to their imperfection, their *humanity*. which, he postulates, is what also leads to the greatest spiritual development, which leads to the happiest psychology and form of existence (which can exist without religion, btw).

So, end of the day, going to our community, our parents, or what have you . . . may not get you the result that you want.

The result that I want is to be psychologically healthy and happy. I actually work hard at this, using the many tools at my disposal, and many spiritual disciplines available to me (well, i tend to prefer 3, but anyway). One of those tools is relying on someone who is educated and trained in how to handle a specific need -- in unique ways that my parents, my community, and my teachers may not.

That is to say, if I have a broken arm, I'm not going to go to my dad -- who did learn how to handle it in boy scouts and pretty much understands a lot about the body seeing as he's a working research scientist. He'd be a decent choice, but he's not a physician, and he's also not a sports medicine doctor or what have you -- who might need to come in and consult on the break if it would affect my sport or general ability to move effectively.

Similarly, if i am going through something that is particularly difficult, I cannot look to my ILs or my parents for answers, no matter how awesome i think they are. I like them all, truly, but they do not know how to handle grief. Yes, we all ultimately handle it in our own ways, but a grief counsellor can help me move through things more effectively, give me activities and ideas to contemplate, and move me into areas of understanding that my family can't even conceive of at this point.

Why? Because they just don't know. They know what they know -- and that is good. But they don't necessarily have an outsider's, bigger picture, i'm-here-to-help-you perspective. And if they are grieving too, then they may not have ANY perspective on the matter, on how you feel.

To me, psychology is rewarding. To me, it is a beneficial practice. It is an exceptional social tool of learning and of healing. I have utilized it, and still do (mostly through books and articles these days), and it has moved me into places of self knowledge that were difficult to get to on my own, and which liberated me from negative emotional and behavioral patterns that were perpetuating my suffering.

So for me, yes, children ARE resilient, but we also have these tools at our disposal so that -- just in case they aren't resilient that day, there's someone there who can help them, who can nurture and care for them in the most effective way possible in that moment (because of their knowledge and training), and who can help them create more resilience within themselves.

I'm all for it, i guess.

[redfox]

I know very few people who have experienced death first hand, including that of close family members. Death, like birth, used to be a function everyday life, at home, and support came from the local community.

Check out this very beautiful essay that talks about the dissolution of community based support systems.
http://www.smallisbeautiful.org/publications/mcknight_84.html

[Zoebird]

while true -- re loss of community support systems -- there is a reality that people who were part of this support system were not always healthy, creative, or reliable.

that is, yes, you get through, but do you get through well?

i have a pretty decent community, and i'm very comfortable with both birth and death on a lot of levels, but grief is it's own beasty, and i'm not leaving it up to just me, or just me and my community, to figure it out.

going to someone who can provide real clarity and insight -- as an objective third party -- and full support because they, themselves, are not grieving the individual, can really help.

but, i'm not saying everyone needs or wants this -- that's fine too.

i'm just saying that it's healthy to seek out help if you feel that it's appropriate, and the best help is going to be from someone who knows more than the average joe/jane about life, death, and 42.

my aunt, who is a well respected psychologist, still sees psychologists herself. one, it is part of her work to work on herself, and so she has to log therapeutic hours in order to teach the method she teaches and all of this stuff. second, she knows the inherent value of it all. third, when her sister died, everyone relied on her -- her whole family/community -- and she really felt that she had no one to rely on. she was able to go to her counsellor, and get the help and support that she needed. Her community fell through; her counsellor was there for her.

[Fawn]

"That is to say, if I have a broken arm, I'm not going to go to my dad -- who did learn how to handle it in boy scouts and pretty much understands a lot about the body seeing as he's a working research scientist. He'd be a decent choice, but he's not a physician, and he's also not a sports medicine doctor or what have you -- who might need to come in and consult on the break if it would affect my sport or general ability to move effectively. "

+1.

And continuing the analogy...for some the break is a stress fracture, for some a spiral break and for some the bone is shattered. All need different interventions.

When someone dies, the immediate survivors are usually grieving and incapacitated themselves and not in a good place to be support to other family.

[Mrs-M]

I think it's a good thing. Aside from the basic purpose behind grief counselors in general, it also affords a correct storyline to propel students towards the truth, helping to quash and eliminate any made-up, fabricated, rampant jargon loosely cast about. I'm all for it and support it 100%.

[Bastelmutti]

I think grief counselors are generally a good thing.



in the past, you just hid, or lived with, or denied whatever upset you. This could be any manner of things, from being nearly beaten to death by your mother -- who suffered from PPD -- with a hot iron, to rape and incest, to the death of loved ones, to the bullying at school, or whatever else. none of this was ever necessarily worked, through, and thereby never really lived through.


Yes yes yes. I grew up in a community scarred by WWII. No one got psychological treatment for it; just wasn't done at the time. We have many alcoholics/drug abusers, domestic abuse problems, suicides - among the ones who lived through it as well as their children. Most of this is swept under the rug. This was the generation that just bucked up and got on with it. Some better than others.

I also agree 100% with what Mrs-M posted above. A child committed suicide in my kids' elementary school a few years ago. Kids saw him being wheeled out of the school, rumors were rampant, we became a media outpost for a while. The two things that helped the school heal most, I think, were the teachers and parents banding together and not making statements to the media (after all, we didn't KNOW anything, so how is speculating about something so awful going to help anyone?) and having the grief counselors come in and talk to the kids and parents. This event was really outside the realm of all of our experience, so I thought the counselors were definitely a help.

[Wildflower]

I think grief counselors are a good thing.

Back in the day when I was a kid my cousin was killed suddenly by a hit and run driver. I remember the pain and the despair I felt daily over his loss for years. Back then once the funeral was over that was that, no one talked about it. My parents certainly didn't talk to me about his loss, or try and comfort me. A grief counselor would have been a wonderful thing for me and all of the other kids that were close to my cousin. I remember how overwhelmed I was by my sadness at losing my cousin at that age. Would have been so good to have someone to help me through that....

[Rosemary]

I also think that making grief counselors available in the schools is a good thing. There were a number of deaths when I was at a very large high school, due to accidents, suicide, and even murder. Even kids who did not know the students directly were impacted, and for those who did know the students, what a horrible experience. While some of those kids may have had families who were supportive and capable of talking about the situation and helping them process the grief, I am certain that many did not.

My guess is that when a school brings in a specialist like this, they are available as needed and the affected students make appointments. So just because a school has 1000 students, doesn't mean that a school is spending megabucks to offer counselling to all of them, if that is what is alarming some people. The counselor is probably there for a couple of days each time, for a few different sessions, at most.

If kids are consumed by grief or other emotional issues, they are not able to perform at their best in school. Their behavior may suffer. They may have an effect on other kids in their classroom. It is important to support them now as they are growing and maturing, so that they can do their best. If it still bothers you, remember that these same kids will be paying taxes in 20 years to help support our generation.

[Bastelmutti]

My guess is that when a school brings in a specialist like this, they are available as needed and the affected students make appointments. So just because a school has 1000 students, doesn't mean that a school is spending megabucks to offer counselling to all of them, if that is what is alarming some people. The counselor is probably there for a couple of days each time, for a few different sessions, at most.

Yes, that's true. At our school, the child's classroom (only about 15 kids) had an ongoing counseling group for a while, and the counselors otherwise came to dispel rumors and hold a few evening sessions to advise parents.

[RosieTR]

I think some counseling can be overbearing. DH had to see a counselor in elementary school when his mom hit, and barely injured, another girl from the school who had slipped into traffic while on ice. He thought it was stupid, he wasn't traumatized and the school basically forced him to go see this woman. That said, having a counselor available when something truly traumatic happens could be very useful indeed. There were plenty of kids whose parents got divorced and could have used some counseling. Heck, many adults could use counseling because sometimes there's just stuff you're not going to tell your friends. I remember being a kid and thankfully having a friend's mom I could talk to, because although I have a good relationship with my mom there's just some stuff I wasn't going to tell her when I was in my teens. Most of that was pretty normal stuff but I definitely was better off being able to talk to someone about it. Having some other kid die for any reason would be way beyond normal kid stuff so yeah, there may well be a big need for counseling.

[domestic goddess]

Not every family can deal well with death or other disaster, as hs been noted. Those who consider death a penalty for wrong doing are going to frighten and do a real disservice explaining that inevitable part of life to children. I agree with making grief counseling available to children, because they may be able to do what the parents or other adult members of tht particular community can't do, but I don't agree with the wholesale herding of everyone to the counsellor's office for long-term therapy.

[creaker]

I can say I had some skills as a parent - grief counseling was not one of them. I think it's a good idea.

[granola19]

I can see both sides of this one. To be honest I am not a big fan of always depending on a "professional" to tell me how to feel or handle every situation or feel that I need to see or consult one to figure things out. HOWEVER, as someone said before, it used to be that kids had a community or at least some sort of home life to deal with not only the big things like death, but everyday and normal things like the bully in gym class. So many kids go home to an empty house, with nothing but the TV or video games to sort things out for them. Mom or Dad might not get home till after 6pm and then it is a mad rush to get dinner on the table, homework done, and off to bed to start all over the next day. So many people don't even know their neighbors and have no faith community. All of these support networks used to get us through these trials but many don't have them as we have become a very independent/isolationist culture. Hopefully everyone stops and helps kids work through this but when kids sometimes have HOURS after school before parents are even available I am glad a trusted adult is at least present so kids know they can talk to someone.

So yeah, it is kind of sad that this is deemed a necessity, but unfortunately that is where our culture is at right now.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I agree with making grief counseling available to children, because they may be able to do what the parents or other adult members of tht particular community can't do, but I don't agree with the wholesale herding of everyone to the counsellor's office for long-term therapy.

+1 don't agree with it either but I think adults go to therapy because they are unhappy, and so many people are unhappy because society is functioning very badly (and some may have been abused in childhood and etc. etc. and that may explain some cases, but none of that alone explains why SO MANY need help). It's a badly functioning society, producing boatloads of unhappiness.


HOWEVER, as someone said before, it used to be that kids had a community or at least some sort of home life to deal with not only the big things like death, but everyday and normal things like the bully in gym class. So many kids go home to an empty house, with nothing but the TV or video games to sort things out for them.

You can have a home life but with plenty of taboos and subjects just not talked about, death can certainly be one of them. You need a liscense to drive but not to parent afterall. Now if people had LARGE LOCAL extended families and community kids wouldn't have to rely on just their parents however good or bad they are. But that is not amercan society. So if everything depends on the nuclear family that's a very fragile and uncertain thing to start off with, and then when even the nuclear family is damaged through long work hours etc. etc. .......

"I grew up in a house like this, we knew the groan of every stair
All the walls seemed to listen in, all the years seemed to take up air
When you dreamed it was of the wind blowing cold and hard
In those dreams you thought you lived in a house of cards

I grew up in a town like this, we knew the names of every street
On the surface it looked so safe, but it was perilous underneath
That's the place you shoved your doubts and hid your ugly scars
God forbid if word got out about your house of cards"
(mary chapin carpenter)


Mom or Dad might not get home till after 6pm and then it is a mad rush to get dinner on the table, homework done, and off to bed to start all over the next day. So many people don't even know their neighbors and have no faith community. All of these support networks used to get us through these trials but many don't have them as we have become a very independent/isolationist culture.

None of this helps the situation.


So yeah, it is kind of sad that this is deemed a necessity, but unfortunately that is where our culture is at right now.

I don't think it's sad that kids get grief counselors but the general extremely widespread need for psychiatric help (including meds) is troublesome. But much of current society contributes to unhappiness.

[mtnlaurel]

I can see both sides of this one. To be honest I am not a big fan of always depending on a "professional" to tell me how to feel or handle every situation or feel that I need to see or consult one to figure things out. HOWEVER, as someone said before, it used to be that kids had a community or at least some sort of home life to deal with not only the big things like death, but everyday and normal things like the bully in gym class. So many kids go home to an empty house, with nothing but the TV or video games to sort things out for them. Mom or Dad might not get home till after 6pm and then it is a mad rush to get dinner on the table, homework done, and off to bed to start all over the next day. So many people don't even know their neighbors and have no faith community. All of these support networks used to get us through these trials but many don't have them as we have become a very independent/isolationist culture. Hopefully everyone stops and helps kids work through this but when kids sometimes have HOURS after school before parents are even available I am glad a trusted adult is at least present so kids know they can talk to someone.

So yeah, it is kind of sad that this is deemed a necessity, but unfortunately that is where our culture is at right now.

+1