How to explain religious holidays to kids when the religion has changed

[ke3]

Hello everyone! This is my first post in a while. And I have wondered where to post it. It's about religion, and families, and holidays. But since it wouldn't even be an issue if we didn't have kids, I'm putting it here. I suppose it's a bit premature, but I'm already getting questions about it from my son.

Long story short: After much study contemplation, I have decided to convert to Judaism. My husband is on board; ds1 is off in college now, but likes the idea that his good ol' mom is still thinking and learning and growing; ds2 (15) is amused and won't be joining me, and ds3, who is 8, is very excited. With him, I am introducing traditions slowly--we light candles and say the blessings for shabbat (on Friday evenings), do the havdalah ritual that ends the sabbath on Saturday evening; and we celebrated Rosh Hashanah this year with a lot of fun baking and enjoyable activities. Gradually I will introduce more traditions and become more observant. I am learning Hebrew, and it's more and satisfying (intellectually and spiritually) than anything I've done since grad school!

All of this is good. But what do I do, re the kids, with the old traditions, which we celebrated up until now, and which my extended family still celebrates? We’re really only talking about Christmas and Easter here; but I can’t just cancel them! My first thought was to turn Christmas into what the original December festivals of pre-Judaic and Christian culture were: a celebration of the "new life" that the winter solstice represents, after which the days become longer and longer. But that explains very little. The Christmas tree never had much to do with Jesus anyway--though unfortunately I used to talk about the wood of the cross symbolised by the tree......darn. The stockings... well, St. Nicholas was behind that, I believe? I guess I’ll have to bone up on my folk traditions and where they came from.

But have any of you done this? Either changed religions, and been faced with the necessity of explanations for kids and double holidays, or observed these holidays without being religious, and explained them with folk customs and so forth? How do any of you in inter-faith marriages explain things? It must be a similar challenge--although perhaps if you have an interfaith marriage, it may mean you were not that strictly religious in the first place, while I am actually an all-or-nothing gal. For me, it’s really important to practice my religion, well, religiously! In the past, I have only been able to make Christmas meaningful and “simple” by reminding everyone that it is a symbolic, religious holiday, not an occasion for excess and frenzied shopping sprees to buy cheap plastic junk. Now what can it symbolize, really? I want to have a good, well-thought-out answer prepared for my 8 yr. old by the time the “holiday season” is ushered in--i.e, the day after Halloween, when all the stores and neighbors put up their Christmas decorations, and we hear blasts of Christmas music coming from every direction.

Thanks in advance, fellow SL-ers! I suppose the moderators may move the thread to holidays. I just thought it might be invisible there, especially right now; and I’d like to hear from those who have kids.

[Heidi]

Thich Nhat Hanh (hope the spelling is okay), the Vietnamese Buddhist monk and author of many books comes to mind. He states that he has a Buddha statue and a Jesus statue on his altar in his cell. In his book "Living Buddha, Living Christ" he points out the similarities of both religions and sees no reason to reject one or the other.
Friends of ours are in a Jewish/Christian marriage and they observe the holidays of both religions. The kids love it, because they get twice the gifts that their friends do.
Not sure this answers your question, I would suggest you just do what feels right.

[Rosemary]

We're Unitarians. My answer to this conundrum has been, as you mentioned, to go back to the root of the celebrations and learn about earlier traditions. I like this book that I found at our public library: The Winter Solstice: The Sacred Traditions of Christmas by John Matthews, http://amzn.com/0835608344

[Anne Lee]

I would ask your rabbi.

[iris lily]

When my mother converted she made us play the dredle game. I was in my 40's and it was pretty silly. Don't make you kids do that, I beg you. But be sure to make lots of potato pancakes.:D

[loosechickens]

I don't see why you can't celebrate Christmas and Easter with your extended family as celebrating "their" religious holidays, and then celebrating "your" holidays as well, and hopefully having your extended family join you, too.

Although, as Iris Lily said.....don't make anybody that isn't a little kid play the dreidel games.......

I grew up in a neighborhood that was mostly Jewish, and segued easily between my family's Lutheranism and my friends kosher houses, and their holidays. I WAS a bit put out that Christmas only lasted one day, and did drive my mother nuts trying to get her to keep kosher, because I could SEE that she was doing it wrong, and not using separate plates, and serving the wrong things together at the meal, but she would never listen.....(I think it marked me, hahahahaha)

It need not be any more of a big deal than you make of it. Different people practice different religions, you are no longer sharing the same religion with your relatives, but both can be respected and both can be celebrated. Believe me, the kids will handle it just fine.

[Zoebird]

you know, it's a funny thing.

we are in a similar boat, and have no answers. sorry to not be helpful!

in our situation, we are non-religious/buddhist with anthroposophical leanings, living in the opposite hemisphere, where "christmas" ends up in summer and it's seriously messed up and makes NO sense.

this year, i started singing christmas carols around June 22 (wednesday), and on Friday, I woke up with the strong feelings that i needed to make a special holiday dinner (June 24). So, my son and I went into town and got the ingredients for a special meal, and then bought a little gift for daddy, and then daddy came home having gotten a little gift for me and for DS. we then had our meal, sang some christmas music (we have several christmas CDs that are from the middle ages -- so really nice old songs), and then woke up the next morning and opened our presents, had a fancy breakfast, and that was quite nice.

now it's spring, and the neighborhood's spring festival is this weekend -- all of the local churches are having fairs with cake walks and other fun games for the kids, plus rides in the fire trucks and a petting zoo and all that good stuff -- so we'll be spending the day out in the community celebrating spring.

this summer -- on Jan 4 -- we are setting up a "4th of July!" BBQ to invite our friends over and have a "traditional" US-styled 4th of July BBQ. which means brats, coleslaw, potato salad, desserts, and coca cola and beer (even though we drink neither). It will be "please bring a dessert" and we are inviting all of our american and Kiwi friends (i've already sent out invitations! yes, i plan madly ahead).

And then in the autumn, we are probably going to do a thanksgiving in april, which is what we wanted to do last year, but had to go to court that day because we'd won a judgment, but the person wasn't paying, so we had to get an order to send a bailiff to the person. total PITA, and shouldn't interrupt us this year.

This doesn't feel "real" or "comfortable" at all yet, but we think we are onto something.

[AmeliaJane]

In terms of the extended family, if this is about attending their celebrations, you might consider that. If I had family who were Jewish or Muslim, I would be honored to be invited to attend their holiday parties. Each person has to decide this for themselves, of course, but I wouldn't feel it was any threat to my Christian faith to acknowledge and celebrate with someone of another faith. Personally, I'd probably feel that I should bring food if that is the custom--just because it would be rude to attend a communal meal without something--but not to participate in the religious aspects if any. Gifts are trickier, so I guess you could either choose not to participate in that part, or give for Hanukkah instead of Christmas.

As for your own boys, especially the two older who haven't converted, that's a little more complicated because these are still their traditions and their home. And when traditions are tied up with family love and emotion, giving them up isn't just about the logic of Mom's Jewish now. In your shoes, I might consider having a conversation about whether there are any aspects of Christmas and Easter that they would really miss (ie, I doubt they care about Christmas cards) and then finding a way to make those happen--with your husband, other family members, or just doing it as a gift of love for the next few years. I don't think you need to rationalize the meaning of it all--all your boys are old enough to understand that it's not your faith anymore but that because it's important to them, you will help figure out a way to make it happen. And, you know, most of our Christmas traditions are secular in nature, not religious, despite attempts at revisionist history lately. Check out "A Candid History of Christmas" if you want more on that.

Anyway, all food for thought and I'm sure you will find a good solution for your family.

[Karma]

Why not ask your kids what they want to do. I think it would be mean to expect them to give up all the traditions they grew up with just because decided to change religious beliefs. You can celebrate your own religion but let them enjoy their own beliefs and traditions as well. Why do they have to give up Christmas or change it into a pagan holiday because of you?

[Miss Cellane]

Where is your husband in all this? Agnostic, atheist, religious?

My family is Catholic. My sister-in-law is Muslim. As a family, they celebrate both Catholic and Muslim holy days and holidays with their kids. The kids are being taught the basic tenants of both faiths. They focus a lot on the similarities in beliefs. They do discuss the differences, and how much is due to the time and place and customs of the origins of those differences. My brother observes the Ramadan fast along with his wife, and goes with his father-in-law and brother-in-law to some of the holy day things, but he is still a practicing Catholic. My SIL has no problem with a Christmas tree in the house--in her country, they are seen as a seasonal decoration, not a religious symbol--and she has no issue with Easter baskets.

What I can't figure out from the OP is if the 8 year old son will be converting as well, or if he will retain the religion he's been practicing so far? I'm gathering that the older two boys will not be converting. So you have a household with two different religions being practiced. I agree, it isn't fair to the other boys to abruptly stop celebrating their holidays. Once they're out of the house and in their own homes you can do that. How you discuss things with the 8 year old depends--if he is converting to Judaism, ask your rabbi or Jewish friends for advice on how they handle this issue with their kids. If he is remaining Christian, can you explain it as "*This* is what Mommy believes. Your daddy and brothers and your minister believe *that*."

[Selah]

Lena Romanoff's book, "My People, Your People," does an excellent job discussing the practical aspects of conversion to Judaism and being part of an interfaith marriage and/or extended family, and has some very good suggestions about your situation. Having converted to Judaism myself (I was raised Unitarian-Universalist), I can personally recommend the book. My DH is Jewish, as is his family, so there's been no problem on that side. My own family has been very supportive and doesn't really celebrate Christmas or other Christian holidays anyway. There are no kids involved, so it's been relatively easy for me. But many interfaith couples have managed to deal with this situation, and it's great that your close family is supportive.

Feel free to message me privately, by the way, as conversion is a long, complex, and challenging process. Sometimes it helps to talk things over with other Jews-by-choice, both before and after the conversion. Good luck and mazel tov! :)

[KayLR]

I think there is a lot of good advice for you here, OP. If like you say, you're an all or nothing gal, you will have quite a challenge here, I would think especially at Easter. From what I've heard Christmas and Hannukah are both pretty materially-focused, so a lot won't look different superficially. But on the religious front, if you've formerly espoused Jesus as having died on the cross for all humanity, but now you've changed your mind about Easter, that might be rough to try and explain to your young one.

I truly wish you the best in your spiritual journey.

[ke3]

Thanks so much, everyone, for your thoughtful responses! There's a lot of food for thought here. First of all, to Anne Lee, I have already asked my rabbi--but I asked the rabbi of the Reform temple around the corner from my house, the one I've been attending. She responded (a month ago) by informing me that she would be taking no new appointments until the High Holy Days are over! I must say that I was pretty shocked, and disappointed. She's a wonderful woman in general, but I felt really odd about that. Then I contacted the rabbi's wife at the Chabad congregation I used to attend (for those who don't know, Chabad is an orthodox community, but maybe not Orthodox??--I'm confused about that still), and she immediately set up a whole series of meetings with me, involving not only answering my questions, but teaching me Hebrew, privately, as well! I could hardly stop stammering my thanks for taking this on in this season, when she cut me off, saying, "Honey, if a person is starving, you feed him!" You can imagine which rabbi/rabbi's wife I was more drawn to. Her advice was to just do whatever I'm comfortable with at the time, but to emphasize that Jesus was a Jew. Certainly, I've already done this--dh and I are both scholars, so when we do anything spiritual, it's with all the scholarship on the subject in mind. But now said rabbi's wife has had an emergency with her mother's health, and has flown off to Israel to spend the next three weeks. I don't feel like asking the Chabad rabbi anything--I already have told my life story to the rebbetzin (rabbi's wife).

ETA: Oh, Zoebird--your post brings me back to my childhood in Peru. We used to get bathing suits, snorkels, and other summer gear for Christmas! And Christmas was the beginning of summer vacation; so we were in school all "summer" while our cousins and friends back in the States were on vacation. Weird, but that was the deal!

To address some of the other matters people brought up, the extended family is no problem. We'll go to their feasts and family events, and invite them to ours. They are not religious at all; in fact I barely went to church as a kid. We just celebrated Christmas and Easter, and I know we were all baptized. When my first two kids reached 7 and 4 yrs, I took them to the Unitarian Church for a while; but I, myself, missed God too much to continue with that. Nor could I ever convince myself, or the kids, that Jesus really was the son of God, or really died for our sins. I just liked the community spirit of churchgoing! So I was a Big, Class-A hypocrite at the Congregational Church I eventually chose. And by the time I chose it, only my little one came to church with me. So we're really just talking about him, the now-8-yr-old. But the funny thing is, my older two, both teens, think it's very amusing to play the dreidel game with their little brother. I never suggested it, but ds3 came home with a dreidel last year from some community event I took him to, and, as everyone laughed at their mom's fickle religious leanings, they looked up how to play it on the internet, and had at it! Lots of fun all around.

Selah, thank you for the book recommendation! When I googled the topic, it seemed like every therapist on the planet had written a book about interfaith marriages/kids, and I was just too overwhelmed by the number of titles that came up to deal with it. But I will definitely check this one out! It's so helpful to have a personal recommendation.

I guess what I was hoping to hear here was some stories of how people who don't literally believe the Christmas and Easter religion stories have made these holidays meaningful in SOME way to their children anyway--how you justify the festivities to the kids.... --or, from interfaith couples, how you explained it to your kids--and I'm talking about young kids, not teens or adults.

So thanks a lot, SLers! It is nice to have this conversation with fellow simple living advocates.

[Zoebird]

well, my guy is 3, so there's no need right now, but we are trying to incorporate the "christian" holidays with the "christian" traditions without it actually being our faith, by flipping to something "seasonal" that also acknowledges how christians celebrate and utilize these holidays.

this is partly because he'll be going to steiner schools, which has many christian holidays, but celebrates them in a seasonal, more . . . "archetypal" way.

[ke3]

well, my guy is 3, so there's no need right now, but we are trying to incorporate the "christian" holidays with the "christian" traditions without it actually being our faith, by flipping to something "seasonal" that also acknowledges how christians celebrate and utilize these holidays.

this is partly because he'll be going to steiner schools, which has many christian holidays, but celebrates them in a seasonal, more . . . "archetypal" way.

Zoebird, I tried to edit my last post to add something addressed to you, but I still haven't quite figured out this new system, and my editing-to-add didn't work. But I wanted to say how your post struck such a chord for me in the childhood memories department! We lived in Peru for several years when I was a kid (my dad worked for Occidental Petroleum, and they were drilling for oil in the Amazon jungle); and our summer vacation started around December 21, and we went back to school in late March. On Christmas, we got gifts like bathing suits and beach towels! In our family we just ignored the weather, and celebrated all the holidays on their regular "American" dates. It wasn't too hard, since Peru was, at that time, at least, a very strictly Catholic country--the movies were rated by the Church, birth control was not available, etc..... and we got all kinds of school holidays like All Saints Day (but no Halloween! --that was really hard for me). And when we came to the States for a month every summer (in January) my brother and sister and I got all kinds of suspicious looks from passers-by, and once we were even stopped by a police officer, asking why we weren't in school. Your story brought home to me that families can have all kinds of difficulties with celebrating traditional holidays, for all kinds of reasons--not just religious ones.

Selah, I will take you up on your offer to message you privately! Thank you so much, everyone!